No, because with the buffed zoom, all snipers would be impossible to find except by other snipers. That's the problem with the Thale's zoom. It allows Thale's to effectively snipe from way too far out.

Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range.

Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot.

On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use.

Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing.

I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting.

All right, this may get interesting.

First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things.

The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible.

We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket.

Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles.

Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe

Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps
High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%)
New Effective range - 450
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type

Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo
High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%)
New Effective Range - 400
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR)

High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%)
Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage
New Effective Range - 350
Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots


Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective.

The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced.

We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments.

Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback.

Thanks!

Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing.

Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range.

Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot.

On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use.

easy there mate,
i happen to like the charge as the type of rifle it falls into....

i can almost make do with a lower range given the extra damage to both both base and headshot,
i do not want it to become a specific to one or the other, in this proposal it's the sniper style weapon.
one shot one kill.

@ rattati
please do make the adjustments to nano hives for sniper rifles.

is there any chance of adjusting the ammo skill.. 1 shot per point?
only those willing to spend serious sp get extra 5, everyone else might skill to level 3.

Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing.

Yes, possible. However, even the proposed tactical has it's headshot bonus increased. Everything in the proposed changes seem to shout "go for the headshot".

Look, I don't know how much experience you have in sniping (quite possibly, more than me), but I'm gonna say this anyway:
In practice, it is extremely difficult to get reliable headshots (unless you're on some tower, more/less directly above your targets). You may get lucky with headshots in pubs, where you can probably find more noobs who will stand still for longer periods of time, but in PC (which is supposed to be the yardstick for any serious balancing) I doubt that anyone won't constantly wiggle around. Especially when they'll know that a headshot can OHK even their tanked-out proto suit. I worry that snipers will remain a "serious threat" only in pubs and, as far as "real utility" goes, they'll fall in the same category as plasma cannons or ion pistols. Especially when their range gets reduced, and they are forced out of the redline (at least, to some extent). When snipers start to be executed by shotgun scouts in frequent numbers, and once they realize they don't get much more efficiency for the risks they now have to "suffer", I worry that we may witness the death of the role.

But maybe, I'm just plain wrong.

As I understood Rattati's input, Charge doesn't receive any base damage buff. But maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, I think we should be very careful with the OHK doctrine here. If the charge (or any sniper) will allow for OHKs of some fancy proto assaults or even heavies, I think you'll see a new avalanche of rage against snipers. You have to understand that the primary cause of sniper hate is not that snipers are OP. It's the fact that snipers kill "out of the blue", and you "can't fight back".



If you make the ammo skill give you 1 shot per point, won't that be unfair to tactical sniper users?

Now I know you're trolling. "Try strafing". With my sniper rifle. When I NEED consecutive headshots to kill him. Snipers don't have the luxury of strafing, you idiot.

Rattati, how did you land on 350, 400, 450 meters effective range? Can you help us visualize that? What's an example from one of the maps of a distance of 400m? Like between sockets.

And before everyone starts hating, isn't it logical for a team that has 1 sniper to lose to one that has none? Besides, that's how it is now in game anyway...

I find the opposite to be the case. The more bluedots sniping in Skirm or Dom, the more likely we are to lose a match.

Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle is the clip size was reduced to 3.

It's nonsense, and ruins the gun.

Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model.

The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially

making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using.

I know what I want to say, but how to say it..

Current Review : Charge Sniper Rifle

The most viable sniper rifle at consistently killing infantry if you're a rather accurate marksman. For those who miss more often or like a higher rate of fire the Ishukone (standard) sniper rifle is preferred. The Charge Sniper Rifle with the highest base damage rewards you with more damage for headshots. As it should because it's a charge to fire mechanic. You can still consistently kill players by going for body shots, usually at a rate of 2,3,4 for scout, assault, heavy. (prototype suits)

IWS Suggested : Charge Sniper Rifle

All in on headshots. You will be reloading 40% more than you currently do. Assuming you always wait until the rifle is empty to reload. In reality since it takes at least 2 shots to kill the weakest of suits with bodyshots, you will be reloading anytime the clip isn't full. (prototype) Having 3 bullets would afford you 1 miss. It used to be the most consistent sniper rifle, but no longer. You'll be wasting precious time missing on headshots all match. (Which are more of a bonus in reality, unless the target is stationary) Since partially obscured moving targets on uneven terrain is commonplace, this rifle is best suited to counter-sniping. Think of it like the new Tactical Sniper Sniper. Then think of the new Tactical Sniper Rifle as something closer to a quickscoping sniper rifle.

You're turning my favorite rifle, and many others into an abomination. For no reason. If you watch some my videos you'll see that often times I use my first shot to feel out my target. Think tracer round. I'm serious, a large amount of the time I miss my first shot on a somebody, the second shot however has an insanely high hit percentage compared to the first. Limiting the clip size to three makes this kind of shooting not worth the time it'll take me to constantly have to reload. Thus, making the rifle inferior at pretty much everything when compared to the standard variant. The one with 2 more bullets, close to the same headshot damage, and no charge time. I'll say it one last time, players won't be going for bodyshot kills with this gun at all. And the standard sniper rifle will suffer the same problem, headshot damage is increased, but bodyshot damage is still awful.

All of this combined will have players, including myself using sniper rifles as headshot only weapons (essentially)

That's boring. Inconsistent. Situational.

#nobodyaskedforthis #yourefired

Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game.

Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo.

You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role.

Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle if the clip size was reduced to 3.

It's nonsense, and ruins the gun.

Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model. The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using.

First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots.

This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon.