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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
George Moros
RestlessSpirits
413
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Posted - 2014.09.09 19:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
The proposed changes seem interesting. However, I will withhold any further judgment until I see definite numbers (especially base rifle damage). From the proposed ranges it seems that the days of snipers sitting still in one spot for most of the match are over.
With regard to that, here are my proposals / concerns:
1. I really hope that when HF delta hits TQ snipers will be able to be effective without the explicit need for proto sniper rifles and stacked complex damage mods. If they're forced to get closer, they should be able to use cheaper fits and still be good.
2. As I already mentioned, since sitting still in one place will not be a good tactic anymore, I propose the following change (if applicable): Scope sway is no longer applied when crouched, and is only present when standing, behaving in the same fashion the current sway is now while crouched. This will allow the sniper's better mobility. without the worry of the infamous "quickscoping".
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
413
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Posted - 2014.09.10 08:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
From what I could gather of Rattati's input, it seems to me that the charge variant is going to be the least used. Standard version has the best range and receives a damage buff, so I suppose it will be the most used variant for all tower and redline snipers (yes, redline snipers aren't going away after delta - if you believe the contrary you are sorely mistaken). The tactical variant may see some good use, especially on Cal. commandos in a RR + TacSR combo. The charge however, seems like the worst choice. No base damage buff, and with the new orientation towards headshot bonus, the charge is going to be the most difficult to use. If you miss with the charge, you will get the fewest chances to correct. Combine this with the fact that you can be outranged by the standard version, and you get a pretty lousy weapon.
With all that in mind, here's my (counter)proposal to Rattati's OP:
I believe that the new headshot orientation for SRs is not necessarily a bad move. However, I think that headshots shouldn't be the only option for successful sniping. Getting headshots may prove to be so difficult task that no amount of headshot damage bonus could compensate. And since there are three sniper rifle variants this could be remedied and also allow for several different approaches to sniping, making the role more versatile and customizable.
Therefore,
Sniper rifle: I think the proposed change seems a solid choice for the "headshot sniper". With the longest range, it would allow it's user most safety to go for those hard-to-get, but immensely rewarding headshots.
Tactical sniper: This could be the closest thing to a DMR, but it's currently not clear just how much ROF, clip size and ammo it will get. If it would be possible to eliminate sway while standing (still, of course), this could be a very interesting weapon. However, to differentiate it further from the standard SR, I think it should have even less range (300m), less headshot bonus (200%), but allow for less static gameplay and making quick successive shots. Sort of a TacAR on steroids.
Charge sniper: This one would be the "bodyshot sniper". By this I mean very small headshot bonus (if any at all), but massive base damage. By "massive" I mean being able to OHK any scout suit, and even poorly (or cheaply) tanked mediums. By no means should the charge SR be able to OHK proto, or even solidly tanked advanced mediums, and my proposed small (or non-existant) headshot bonus would be a guarantee for that. If this variant proves to be OP, or the next "redline favorite", it's range could be further nerfed to 350m, but I think it should retain it's massive base damage.
So, there you have it. Three very different sniper rifles, each allowing for a distinctive approach to sniping.
Whaddaya think?
P.S. I also think that the charge variant should be introduced at advanced level, not just proto.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
414
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Posted - 2014.09.10 12:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently.
Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing.
I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
414
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Posted - 2014.09.10 12:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
So 'proper range progression' is:
Touching distance - OHK (charged nova knife)
Short range - 1 or 2 shot kill (shotgun)
Mid range - multishot kill with moderate initial DPS (most rifles)
Long range - multishot kill with low initial DPS (laser rifle)
Extra long range - OHK (charge sniper rifle)
Spot the outlier...
If only things were so simple as you try to make them be...
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
415
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Posted - 2014.09.11 05:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:
easy there mate,
i happen to like the charge as the type of rifle it falls into....
i can almost make do with a lower range given the extra damage to both both base and headshot,
i do not want it to become a specific to one or the other, in this proposal it's the sniper style weapon.
one shot one kill.
As I understood Rattati's input, Charge doesn't receive any base damage buff. But maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, I think we should be very careful with the OHK doctrine here. If the charge (or any sniper) will allow for OHKs of some fancy proto assaults or even heavies, I think you'll see a new avalanche of rage against snipers. You have to understand that the primary cause of sniper hate is not that snipers are OP. It's the fact that snipers kill "out of the blue", and you "can't fight back".
Snake Sellors wrote:
@ rattati
please do make the adjustments to nano hives for sniper rifles.
is there any chance of adjusting the ammo skill.. 1 shot per point?
only those willing to spend serious sp get extra 5, everyone else might skill to level 3.
If you make the ammo skill give you 1 shot per point, won't that be unfair to tactical sniper users?
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
415
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Posted - 2014.09.11 06:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:George Moros wrote:
Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing.
I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting.
Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing.
Yes, possible. However, even the proposed tactical has it's headshot bonus increased. Everything in the proposed changes seem to shout "go for the headshot".
Look, I don't know how much experience you have in sniping (quite possibly, more than me), but I'm gonna say this anyway:
In practice, it is extremely difficult to get reliable headshots (unless you're on some tower, more/less directly above your targets). You may get lucky with headshots in pubs, where you can probably find more noobs who will stand still for longer periods of time, but in PC (which is supposed to be the yardstick for any serious balancing) I doubt that anyone won't constantly wiggle around. Especially when they'll know that a headshot can OHK even their tanked-out proto suit. I worry that snipers will remain a "serious threat" only in pubs and, as far as "real utility" goes, they'll fall in the same category as plasma cannons or ion pistols. Especially when their range gets reduced, and they are forced out of the redline (at least, to some extent). When snipers start to be executed by shotgun scouts in frequent numbers, and once they realize they don't get much more efficiency for the risks they now have to "suffer", I worry that we may witness the death of the role.
But maybe, I'm just plain wrong.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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