All right, this may get interesting.

First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things.

The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible.

We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket.

Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles.

Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe

Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps
High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%)
New Effective range - 450
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type

Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo
High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%)
New Effective Range - 400
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR)

High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%)
Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage
New Effective Range - 350
Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots


Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective.

The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced.

We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments.

Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback.

Thanks!

1) Increased headshot values aren't enough to change the dynamic that requires snipers to stack damage mods to have an effective weapon. Every other weapon (less Swarms, Ion Pistol, and Flaylock Pistol) are all viable in their own rights and can be used effectively against people with higher level of SP investment than them. With post proposal values, the Sniper Rifle still needs 2 complex damage mods and proficiency 5 to carry any weight as a threat.

2) I have a BPO LAV and an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. This is far superior combo than a worthless Tac SR with 350m range


This needed to be stressed.



Because it's an underused weapon, looking for opinions from people that don't use it and seeing what changes they would like to see for them to become interested in the weapon are important. However, most people know this and end up cleverly disguising their malcontent for whatever the subject is at hand and say thing that make other believe that certain changes would get them to use it.

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Taken from Jathniel's thread [Inquiry] Sniper Rifles



His MCC sniping video was on Manus Peak - Domination, the area of play on that map is under 300m^2. I'd be impressed by anyone using a Sniper Rifle that got a kill over 300m on that map & mode combo. I'm capable of taking out the majority of redline snipers there with the Forge Gun.

I've got proficiency 4 in Forge Guns and I always play in a squad. I either get a constant resupply of ammo because I've asked someone beforehand or I'm next to an uplink and ask for someone to drop me a hive after their next death. Or I just run around with Vipers and Blood Raider Sagas.

Unlike Symb, the only time I snipe from within 400m is when I'm squad'ing with him. If someone is within 300m I'm going to be more effective sniping with my Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. -Something I really like to stress, I am sniping infantry with the assault variant- Just yesterday a squadmate pulled out a Thale's to clear infantry off a high platform; I re-positioned myself with my forge gun and started killing people, with direct hits mind you, and at the end of the game I had more kills than him. WP too, because I could chase off any dropships that wanted to take me off my perch.

From my point of view, it's easier to hit someone with the Assault Forge Gun than it is to get a headshot with a Sniper Rifle. Ignoring the fact that the reticle change will stop the majority of the false positives, hit detection is still a huge issue for the weapon.

Reducing the range of the sniper rifles just made it a hell of a lot easier to drive around in an free LAV counter-sniping people with a forge gun, something guaranteed to kill any sniper in 1 hit.

All in all, sounds like you've never used the sniper rifle yourself and only pay attention to people whining about the weapon, feeling the need to nerf an under perfroming weapon because of complaints and throwing an insignificant change as "compensation."

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Also, as an aside, some jerk that throws an uplink on a tower and then 6-8 people spawning up there with sniper rifles is far more annoying than redline snipers. The number of people sniping from the redline is usually insignificant or came from already being forced back to their red-line spawns. Uplink + tower is just a guaranteed way to lose the match.

trollface.jpg or efg.gif?

At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle?

I can't even OHK a heavy with complex mods and Prof 5! Lmao

Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but:

Tactical- Best zoom (outside thales), but gets the least range.
Charged- Worst zoom, but gets the 2nd best range.

Just doesn't make sense to me. Unless you're changing each sniper's zoom to fit those ranges.

It will definitely change sniping either way though. Kinda wish that with these changes you would give us more perches outside the redline that aren't also in easy range of forge guns considering the range of current perches/hills.

That's with Charge after hotfix as it stands, if I'm understanding you correctly?

If so... I'll eat a 200m range nerf for the power to actually kill heavies with my Charge SR. Sure. That ammo capacity nerf is bloody draconian, though.

Read the thread.

Nanohives give away your position, promoting the use of compacts, more easily concealed behind terrain features.

Compacts are also very limited. They don't give you much. We're have a meta right now where we can't OHK anything that even attempts a tank, not even a light frame with plates. We're being given a new meta where we can kill, but only with headshots. So we have to go for the headshot. So we'll miss much more frequently. So we'll run out of ammo more frequently. So our compact nanohives will be exhausted sooner. And unlike regular hives, you can only carry one at a time. So only the top 1% of snipers in the game who can consistently tag the headshot on sprinting, zigzagging and bunnyhopping targets will maintain kill numbers like what they have now while middle-ground snipers will very likely see a marked decrease. Bad snipers will probably give it up, but I guess that's the intent here anyway.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

EDIT: There's an idea, Rattati! Buff the compact nanohive, let us carry 2 instead of just 1. Maybe add an ADV variant of it that lets us carry 2. And 3 at PRO.

Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding.

Appia's still right and you're still wrong though

Every time I'm on top of a tower and I get forged, I'm crouched stationary (because I bloody well HAVE to be to try and catch the headshot) and the FGer is making figure eights with his DS3. He'll miss me twice before I finally tag the first headshot. Then he hits. Or he misses again and ducks behind something to reload and let his shield hp regen. Pops back out, figure 8, I try to tag a headshot again, what a surprise, that was just a bodyshot (or a miss altogether), blinded by the flash from the FG near-miss, much of my shield HP gone from splash damage - whew, that was close! I'd better kill this g-

Clone terminated.
Some dude
His corp
Militia Forge Gun - 249m
Remaining Shield - all of it :: Remaining Armor - most of it
Damage dealt - enough to kill me 3 times over, on a body shot

Forge gunners can cry me a river. I've NEVER shot at a stationary FGer, except when I've killed them. Which is to say, the only FGer a sniper's going to beat in a duel is the one that DOES stand still like an idiot and LET the sniper headshot them 2 or 3 times. I haven't seen one of THOSE unicorns in a long, long time.

lol, Tyjus is just an excellent example of a player that hates camping. Regardless of having a significant impact on the game or not he'd rather run around and quick scope than run overwatch.

Most maps are limited on where you can actually get a good angle off, especially since they removed the ability to sit atop the obelisks, so any forge gun user sitting atop a flat surface is virtually untouchable now due to the distance away any locations that are close to level with a building they sit on.

You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you?

Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle if the clip size was reduced to 3.

It's nonsense, and ruins the gun.

Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model. The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using.