Finally....LOGIC!

Let be honest. It's CCP that wasn't upto the task. The PC is easier for them, the PS3 was too much of a challenge for them to develop on. It's not that the hardware couldn't handle it. Let's get real, who needs a 5x5Km map when you can never use more than 1x1km? It was tons of vision, with horrendous implementation. Sure the PS3 has it's limits, but don't blame it for CCP's failures.

if that keynote said a total change but on ps4 no one would moan yet dust would change exactly the same. the only real issue is limitations which the PC has none

limitations in any way or form are limitations. ccp has no limitations on pc. just look at the continued evolution of eve over the years. yes its always been pc but how many times has it evolved to require more GFX and processing power. PS4 and certainly PS3 are limited in that regard.

eve is now getting 10 releases a year. how many releases do you honestly think we will receive on ps3 especially as the game gets more and more complicated and larger.

Hi everyone. Me again.

Why PC first? For a few different reasons... It's a scalable platform. We can go high spec for the most demanding players in terms of Gfx, but we can also scale down to low/mid spec to get critical mass. It's also a good platform for the early stage of a project like ours. You can test and balance the game and the economy quite easily with fast turn-arounds. We can set people up in testing environments easily (eg. ISD in EVE). If you've seen the "CCP Presents" presentation on Saturday at Fanfest, there was a talk about CCP refocusing on its core tech competency, which is PC. It allows in the future the creation of a "universe" of products on the same platform. Again, this doesn't mean that we're not going back to console at one point but we need to focus on one thing at a time and deliver an awesome game, then things get easier.

Now I'd like to address (or repeat) something important for me. I know that a lot of you have been really disappointed and wanted to see much more on the future of DUST 514 in its current form and I absolutely understand that feeling. But the reality is that, while it's a great shooter, I repeat that it's not the base that can give us another EVE Online with 10+ years of epic battles where players can have a great experience whether solo, as the head of the deadliest squad or largest corp in the game. Give people the right tools to manage/achieve all that. A much clearer user experience that opens up that huge universe, always discover new stuff to shoot, to loot, to sell... A social experience where corps can advertise/recruit easily, where you see the main chat going crazy with people asking for groups, selling stuff, talking ****. Some of the stuff that makes me feel like I am in an MMO. All of these aren't tweaks, they are features forming a new eco-system for the game, a foundation you can then build on. No doubt that DUST 514 is a large piece of that foundation. We've accomplished so much and I've had a ton of fun every day since beta but it is not there yet. It requires a lot of work of course but also a different approach in how we design and execute on that vision. I can go on and on about how I see this evolve but we'll cover in more depth as we start sharing ideas and designs through dev blogs and such.

Vehicle/AV balance, weapon balance, poor NPE, short-sighted flaws in the fundamenal mechanics of PC, just to name a few examples, have nothing to do with the technical limitations of the PS3 and yet CCP has failed time and time again to sufficiently address and provide effective solutions to these and many other issues fundamental to a successful FPS.

This is purely a result of their inexperience and shortcomings as a FPS developer, and nothing else.

It pains me to even respond to such baseless accusations but it must be done. So he said that they are committed to DUST over the long term. You focus on the fact that "Legion" and "DUST" are not the same words and that one is on PC and the other on PS3 and try to incite hatred based on that. What was he supposed to say? "We are committed to EVE, Valkyrie, and...whatever we'll be calling the EVE universe MMOFPS when we decided what platform it needs to be on." When he said DUST, he meant DUST and Legion, because Legion is clearly DUST 2 on the PC. This should be obvious. It's obvious to me. You don't see the connection though and so it's a LIE and a BETRAYAL. Or maybe you're capable of perceiving the obvious and you do see the connection but you're just trying to use anything you can as a weapon against CCP because you're pissed because eventually you'll have to have a PC to play DUST.

I've never seen such petty, nit-picking, grudge-holding attempts at twisting the truth as on these forums in the past few days!!!

Name one promise they kept?

No, it doesn't, because (above link). Admitting they've done wrong doesn't mean anything this many times in.

Fool me once...

[quote=Doc Browner]Name one promise they kept?

your looking at limitations as just being down to gfx and processing power but its more than that (yes i only stated those 2 things in my post but that was relevant to that point). there are other limitations like having to go to sony to change things. just look how long it takes to get fixes after a patch. in eve you have a fix within a few hours. in dust it takes weeks or even months. there is also the limitations of what they can programme. for ccp they come up with all sorts of weird and wonderful programmes to fix their problems in eve as and when they arrive. they cannot do that as easy with PS3.

as for their shortcomings. ccp had them in eve's birth and look at what they have now. one of the most successful games of all time. they may stumble and make mistakes in dusts but the end result will be the same.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE PLATFORM SHIFT.

I think going to PC is the best part of this whole decision, but console-only players have every right to be a part of this that you do. And even if it's completely impossible to go to ps4(I can't imagine them even bothering to try after all this), I might accept that too. But they still deserved more warning than they did. I feel worse for them than I do for myself.

Sure we were stupid to believe CCP's lies, but they didn't have to completely fulfill them to win most of these people over, they just had to make an effort to end this game well, and with proper respect to their players. Apparently we're not worth that.

I would be all fanboy-ing it up in here defending CCP except for that and the other thing, how they kept this information from us while they milked all of us for extra money. That is unacceptable. After that, nothing their paid professional liars say about legion or your character investment means anything.

These are just excuses. Plenty of other developers have done just fine within the confines of Sony's QA (which is ultimately in place for OUR benefit, as gamers, to ensure a funamental level of quality), and there have been countless AAA titles produced over the years using the PS3's architecture.

I'm not really even talking from a programming aspect though, it's not about the logistics of programming for the PS3, but more about what should have been basic common sense gameplay decisions: easily exploitable PC mechanics that should have been obvious, the decision to use the woefully inadequate Battle Academy as a solution for the poor NPE, the constant nerf/buff/nerf cycle of weapon balancing, to name a few.

These things have nothing to do with the limitations of Sony or the PS3, and everything to do with the basic understanding of what constitutes a fundamentally sound, enjoyable FPS.

If they couldn't handle the basics, then their grand, complex "vision" was doomed to fail from the outset.

Sure, Eve is successful, but Eve is not a FPS either, and requires a completely different approach, philosophy, and skillset to develop. Just because they made a successful space-sim, doesn't automatically mean they are capable or posses the necessary skill and understanding to create an equally successful FPS game, which is a completely different genre altogether.

Ok so apparently what all this boils down to is:

DUST will be developed indefinitely on PS3 = Promises fulfilled

DUST will move to PC = Betrayal

What I'm seeing is that every statement that is considered to be a lie is not thought to be so because they don't intend to carry it out but rather because they intend to do so on the PC platform....even though that's the only way they can actually do most of the things things they promised to do.

I guess that's where some of us will just have to agree to disagree. You see it as a betrayal and a scam. I see it as a practical necessity in order to develop the game properly. If this kind of change gets you this worked up, prepare for a lifetime of disappointment and feeling betrayed a lot. Sh*t happens and you move forward. Sometimes things don't go the way we intend them to, despite good intentions. They hit a wall with PS3 and decided to go around it instead of just sit down and make camp.

As for "scams", bad intentions, and taking advantage of the customer, if the fact that the future is on PC instead of PS3 is your grounds for such talk, sorry but it doesn't hold water. Play a better DUST on PC (with all your stuff intact) and be thankful for how much better it is, or go play another game. The End.

if that keynote said a total change but on ps4 no one would moan yet dust would change exactly the same. the only real issue is limitations which the PC has none

limitations in any way or form are limitations. ccp has no limitations on pc. just look at the continued evolution of eve over the years. yes its always been pc but how many times has it evolved to require more GFX and processing power. PS4 and certainly PS3 are limited in that regard.

eve is now getting 10 releases a year. how many releases do you honestly think we will receive on ps3 especially as the game gets more and more complicated and larger.

Here's what you don't under ****ing stand:

For almost two years the Devs have been saying that they were 100% committed to the PS3. EVERY SINGLE TIME we asked them if Dust would be better off on a better Platform (PC, PS4). Every time they refuted that they had ABSOLUTELY NO PLANS to move Dust anytime soon. Further more they boasted of there 10 year plan.

Now all of a sudden they are doing a complete 180 on there stance.

Most people refer to this as lying.

when legion comes out on PC we will have every promise fulfilled

that is all anyone should be concerned about.

Anyone who thinks staying in the stone age on an old platform is better than moving to a much more adaptive platform like PC is deluding themselves. also any promises made by CCP were for dust not ps3 and ccp will take it anywhere it needs to go to fulfill those promises so no promises have been broken

These are just excuses. Plenty of other developers have done just fine within the confines of Sony's QA (which is ultimately in place for OUR benefit, as gamers, to ensure a funamental level of quality), and there have been countless AAA titles produced over the years using the PS3's architecture.

I'm not really even talking from a programming aspect though, it's not about the logistics of programming for the PS3, but more about what should have been basic common sense gameplay decisions: easily exploitable PC mechanics that should have been obvious, the decision to use the woefully inadequate Battle Academy as a solution for the poor NPE, the constant nerf/buff/nerf cycle of weapon balancing, to name a few.

These things have nothing to do with the limitations of Sony or the PS3, and everything to do with the basic understanding of what constitutes a fundamentally sound, enjoyable FPS.

If they couldn't handle the basics, then their grand, complex "vision" was doomed to fail from the outset.

Sure, Eve is successful, but Eve is not a FPS either, and requires a completely different approach, philosophy, and skillset to develop. Just because they made a successful space-sim, doesn't automatically mean they are capable or posses the necessary skill and understanding to create an equally successful FPS game, which is a completely different genre altogether.

Here here!!

You are a moron if you think the PC has no limitations. You have to make a PC game that is playable and entertaining for the specs the majority of PC players have or your are shooting yourself in the foot as a company. "PC has no limitations" LOL are you a kid or on some sort of drugs?

Ah the power of exaggeration. Translation: Devs were asked a few times if they had any plans on changing platforms. They said no, either because they hadn't decided yet or because they were legally bound by Sony to not make any such statements. Ever think that some of this may be due to legal restrictions that prohibited them from even talking about a platform change until now? Either way, how were you cheated? You were hoodwinked into having fun playing a game when you would have stopped playing it earlier? Not tragic. Tricked into buying omega boosters? Were they supposed to just stop all events on their free-to-play game until they could tell everyone about Legion? You out $10? Cry me a river. They didn't handle the transition as well as the could have. Oh well. I don't take personally what game developers do with their game, and I certainly don't have enough information upon which to base a judgement of their actions. Neither do you. How bout we let them try to make a good game and just stick to shooting things?

when legion comes out on PC we will have every promise fulfilled

that is all anyone should be concerned about.

Anyone who thinks staying in the stone age on an old platform is better than moving to a much more adaptive platform like PC is deluding themselves. also any promises made by CCP were for dust not ps3 and ccp will take it anywhere it needs to go to fulfill those promises so no promises have been broken

your missing the point.. ccp are not just making a game they are making ART and will take that art wherever it requires. if that means spec'ing up your pc then thats what they will do. it wouldn't be the first time ccp has required everyone in eve to upgrade their system. what would ccp do if your ps4 needed upgrading to bring in required features to expand their vision. they would go to PC and those that truly care for the game world they created and love will follow. those that don't will leave and the playerbase as a whole will become stronger as has been the case for 11years now with eve.

dont fool yourselfs thinking CCP will ever allow dust or any other game in their future to become stagnant with old mechanics and gfx. they will always chase perfection even at the cost of players

See, now this is a guy who threw all his SP into fanboys. He can magically say whatever he feels and it becomes true.

stuff like, what CCP does is art, they won't let things become stagnant *Obvious doesn't Dust much these past 2 years*, and player bases get stronger as people leave.

Lol