Why should a swamer with 4/5 prof be able to easily slo my tank that requires more SP than everything in the swarm skill tree for JUST my large Proto missiles? Then, we can add in my shield upgrades up to 5, optimization 5, Small Proto missiles, all my vehicle Core skills up to five. This cost waay more sp and isk than anything an Av guy will call out. Hell, the turret alone costs 300k, much more than your suit. No, you should not be able to solo my tank EASILY. Possibly, sure. But not easily. I dont even go for infantry unless there arent any tanks to shoot at, my squad needs support, or enemy AV

As they should when a tank has at the least 10x more armor than a suit, and 4x more when you're talking about the sentinels.

Which is sad, how a vehicle with a giant powerplant compared to a suit, has only 4000 armor.

Increasing swarm launcher clip size could be a possible solution.

@Monkey MAC

When disproving the SP argument, it should also be noted that even if the AVer spent less SP (which has been proven false), the SP the AVer spent may only be used if the team has called out a vehicle; as opposed to the Pilot's SP that can be used at any time.

(Albeit to a lesser extent due to maps such as Iron Delta).

Respectfully, increasing the clip will be a lateral move at best. none of the major issues with Swarms will be solved by giving them a 4 round clip.

Well even that is debatable.

You can call in AV anytime....but it is worthless.

You can call in a tank, but meaningful combat is inside socket or building...........tank is worthless.

Isn't that what I just said?

Actually it would increase the Swarm Launcher's DPS, and sustained damage.

Though the true problem lies in the 3x Rep Madrugar. Making these an active module would solve things, without unbalancing other V/AV in other areas (ie, AV vs. DS)

There are more problems with swarms than just a triple rep maddy. Assault dropships hitting their burner and having a get-out-of-jail free card comes to mind.

Simply increasing the SL clip size will do absolutely nothing for the SL meta-game.

How about you provide some of said tactics so that the rest of us may test them ourselves?

Increasing swarm launcher clip size could be a possible solution.

This thread is about HAV/AV, and that's what I was referring to when I said that was the where the true imbalance lies.

If you'll look at my posting history (which I wouldn't recommend lol), you'll see that I've been pushing for faster Swarm Launcher speed.

1.REs. Three total will kill it, or two if they are next to/on the weak point.

2. A maxed out assault forge gun can dps it down in 4 shots. Less if one can hit the weakspot.

3. Large railgun. Particle Cannon takes 4 shots, damage mod reduces that to 3, and hitting the weakpoint with a damage mod reduces that to 2.

4. PEs. Lay an RE, switch to your PE, and lay the PE on top of the RE. The double combo does about 2700 damage. Two of these close together pops a repper tank easy.

5. Maxed out breach forge gun can two shot a repper tank, and maybe even one shot if you hit the weakspot.

6. Maxed out swarms, if you begin your attack from behind so the missiles hit the weakspot.

There you go. Begin testing.

Okay that's only swarms, add proto av packed grenades with even a militia swarm helping, that tank would be done for. Not to mention rolling over Proximity Mines, that tank would be a lost memory. Here goes another pointless nerf. The problem is there is only 2 AV weapons and most people just whine about the tanks and never do anything about it and never spec into any AV what so ever. That tank is completely fair and needs no buffs/nerfs. what needs to happen is more AV weapons need to be put in the game. Oh and not to mention that tank would completely get obliterated by and OB, I have no idea how many times I have to say this STOP NERFING STUFF! People put a lot of time and effort into weapons/tanks, and for you to nerf it is ridiculous for the simple fact that after the nerf they completely hate it because it became completely useless, so they ask for a respec but then you guys say I'm sorry but you are supposed to spec into things you desire to always use so we cannot do this even though we nerfed it into oblivion. As my brother would say, " Oh that's a tank? Nothing a Ishakone Assualt Forge gun can't take care of!"

Not a dev, just a player.

Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.

In a pub, that's never going to happen.

Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.

This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally

1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker
2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player
3a) proto AV vs proto tanker
3b) proto AV vs standard tanker
3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1)
4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well
5) efficiency against infantry
6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.

Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?

Oh and hopefully you read this one DEV, you realize you're trying to solve a problem with the best tank in the game at the moment. If you buff AV or make swarms shoot faster or add another shot to the swarm you can't only think about what it would do to this tank you got to think about how it would almost make every other tank useless and just one easy kill. This is the best tank in the game at the moment until hit with REs or PEs. Like I said and I seen many others say this tank is completely fair seeing that 3 REs or 3 PEs could blow this thing sky high. Another thing to think about this tank is only a problem when its coming from DNS seeing that they have unlimited ISK at the moment once it gets blown up another will follow, then another, then another. That's the other true issue with tanking at the moment, I got a fully proto tanking alt but I've basically have been force in retirement with my tanker because these guys can pull out nonstop proto tanks when tankers outside of DNS can only pull out about 2-3 then are forced in the frontline which is just ridiculous honestly

Respectfully, increasing the clip will be a lateral move at best. none of the major issues with Swarms will be solved by giving them a 4 round clip.

There are more problems with swarms than just a triple rep maddy. Assault dropships hitting their burner and having a get-out-of-jail free card comes to mind.

Simply increasing the SL clip size will do absolutely nothing for the SL meta-game.

You can't get mad if someone is smart enough to know when to retreat and save them selves some isk. That's like saying someone ran into a room where he knew a enemy was, but when he got there it was a heavy with an HMG and he decided to retreat.

Besides dropships are more vulnerable to av than tanks are, when I ads I retreat when I hit half shields, the only time I really die to av is when I'm hovering low surrounded by structures and get hit by a swarm or forge and smack into a wall or something.

Wow, let's see, forge guns, swarms, RE/PE combo, railgun. You sir, are a genius. Why didn't anyone think of these before?

How about you provide some of said tactics so that the rest of us may test them ourselves?

1.REs. Three total will kill it, or two if they are next to/on the weak point.

2. A maxed out assault forge gun can dps it down in 4 shots. Less if one can hit the weakspot.

3. Large railgun. Particle Cannon takes 4 shots, damage mod reduces that to 3, and hitting the weakpoint with a damage mod reduces that to 2.

4. PEs. Lay an RE, switch to your PE, and lay the PE on top of the RE. The double combo does about 2700 damage. Two of these close together pops a repper tank easy.

5. Maxed out breach forge gun can two shot a repper tank, and maybe even one shot if you hit the weakspot.

6. Maxed out swarms, if you begin your attack from behind so the missiles hit the weakspot.

There you go. Begin testing.

All of these tactics involve the use of human intelligence.

You are asking these peasants for too much.

I've found it to be possible.

Min commando Mk.0

Twin cx dmg mods

Wyyrokomi swarm

Prof 1

Reload2

Took 12 volleys against a tank (whom i paid) sitting still, about 75% of the missiles hit the weak point.

1.REs. Three total will kill it, or two if they are next to/on the weak point.

2. A maxed out assault forge gun can dps it down in 4 shots. Less if one can hit the weakspot.

3. Large railgun. Particle Cannon takes 4 shots, damage mod reduces that to 3, and hitting the weakpoint with a damage mod reduces that to 2.

4. PEs. Lay an RE, switch to your PE, and lay the PE on top of the RE. The double combo does about 2700 damage. Two of these close together pops a repper tank easy.

5. Maxed out breach forge gun can two shot a repper tank, and maybe even one shot if you hit the weakspot.

6. Maxed out swarms, if you begin your attack from behind so the missiles hit the weakspot.

There you go. Begin testing.

All of these tactics involve the use of human intelligence.

You are asking these peasants for too much.