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Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 935	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:19:00 - [151] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Some Good Stuff Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this? put AV nades back to 3 Buff proto AV only, not standard or advance: -slightly longer range -slightly more damage -slightly faster firing time -simply put, a slight buff to prototype level AV weapons and equipment *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1692	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:25:00 - [152] - Quote Atiim wrote: Harpyja wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Ok, obviously it's broken and needs fixed and I'm not trying to defend it, but have you tried: Similarly tiered forgeguns? What about Proto Min Commando w/ swarms? Rail/Missile Tanks? Teamwork? Unrelated to the issue at hand, in all honestly, I'm really against a single player, no matter how dedicated to AV, being able to take on a fully proto-ed tank easily. Eventually yes, a dedicated AV should kill it eventually if not engaged or fled from, but not easily. I like this post. I agree a single AV should not be able to kill a Tank but I like to think that a single AV player should be a thorn in his side if he is spec into AVs Edit: i made a typo I strongly disagree. One player should be able to kill another player, whether in a suit or a vehicle. And I strongly disagree with you. Why are all of you so hell-bent on destroying tanks? Is it not enough if you managed to make it activate its modules and retreat? That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble. Because that same vehicle is hell-bent on killing our team? No, it is not enough. If a vehicle doesn't/cannot die, then where is the risk involved i using one? You've also yet to list a valid reason as to why it should be that way, so I'll just write this off as bantering from a tanker who feels as if he should never die to another person. Me? Hell-bent on killing your team? With missiles? Lol, Atiim, just shows how indifferent you are to the whole of tanking. If I wanted to kill your team I'd be crying for 4 meter splash radius while keeping everything bing else unchanged for missiles. You're thinking about blaster tanks. Yes, blasters need a damage nerf, but that is all. I agree, they aren't risking much if they can effectively counter other vehicles meant to destroy them. In general it should be: AI tank (blaster) > infantry > AV infantry > AV tank (missile/railgun) > AI tank Going down the list decreases effectiveness Now, I think it's perfectly balanced how my missile tank is forced to retreat in the presence of AV infantry, that's why I should have infantry to counter them. On the flip side, infantry or AV infantry can't or have reduced efficiency against a blaster tank, which is why they should have an AV tank to counter it. Infantry counter against the tank counter is thus similar to a tank counter against the infantry counter, and you get a nice mirrored balance. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 409	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:27:00 - [153] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: BIind Shot wrote: 3 complex damage mods, 3 proficiency proto swarms vs 2 complex 1 enhanced heavy repair with level 3 in repair proficiency. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7AwrgVwNA&feature=youtu.be Put that Swarm Launcher on Minmando (skill lv5) with 3 dmg mods and prof 5 and that Maddy doesn't stand a chance. I know from experience. You can't fit 3 Damage mods on a Minmatar Commando... Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES Proficiency V. 177	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:27:00 - [154] - Quote I wonder if anyone realizes that swarms aren't meant to solo a tank... I wonder if anyone realizes that Madrugars are Gallente vehicles, which translates to them being able to armor rep efficiently. I wonder if anyone realizes that a triple rep Madrugar actually takes teamwork to take down. I wonder if anyone realizes that any buffer to AV will give DS/ADS pilots an even bigger shaft. I wonder when we'll get our God damned Amarr tanks and DS/ADS so we can armor tank properly. I wonder... People keep spewing the same garbage over and over again about "O man, I'm so hurtbutt about that one-seater tank being able to take out my guy and others when my Light AV Swarm Launcher can't even dent him! It should take TWO(2) people in a tank to operate it!" I don't even need to tank to tell you how much of a dumbass excuse that is. This is a universe where a single pilot commands a Titan. I'm pretty damn sure a single tank driver should be operate and fire his tank, seeing as how we memory now. Any form of AV should require multiple (more than one (which means at least 2 (two))) people to take down any vehicle that isn't a LAV. This is not modern day where it takes 3-4 people to man a single tank. This is not reality. That's like saying my Dropship should take two people to fly because attack helicopters have 2 people; one to fly/shoot missiles and one to man the belly gun. If anything, the rest of the racial tanks need to be brought in to make it more of a change-up where you'll get more tank v. tank battles. My dropship is a medium vehicle. An RDV is a medium vehicle. Why does my dropship have 1/3 the total HP of an RDV? Why are tanks easier to pop than an RDV? Nobody has thought around those lines. An RDV has more eHP than any tank and it's a medium vehicle. That means tanks should have around ~8,000 eHP or more since it's a heavy vehicle. Meaning another rework... disregard this last segment because It's more of an idea than anything. Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_; >Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 514	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:29:00 - [155] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this? Introduce active armor repairs with similar stats (maybe even buffed some).... Make them 1:1 possibly, 30s up and 30s down. Then reduce passive rep modules by about 50% or so. You know... waves of opportunity and all that. This level of repair is fine as an active tank module but not sure its okay that tanks repair like this passively, we're talking 20-30% of their health every second indefinitely.. 12%-12.8% of their armor HP or 9.25%-9.84% of their total HP per second. Which I would agree is alot, if their base HP was enough to survive any kind of alpha damage. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 559	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:31:00 - [156] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Ok, obviously it's broken and needs fixed and I'm not trying to defend it, but have you tried: Similarly tiered forgeguns? What about Proto Min Commando w/ swarms? Rail/Missile Tanks? Teamwork? Unrelated to the issue at hand, in all honestly, I'm really against a single player, no matter how dedicated to AV, being able to take on a fully proto-ed tank easily. Eventually yes, a dedicated AV should kill it eventually if not engaged or fled from, but not easily. I like this post. I agree a single AV should not be able to kill a Tank but I like to think that a single AV player should be a thorn in his side if he is spec into AVs Edit: i made a typo I strongly disagree. One player should be able to kill another player, whether in a suit or a vehicle. And I strongly disagree with you. Why are all of you so hell-bent on destroying tanks? Is it not enough if you managed to make it activate its modules and retreat? That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble. Explain your reasoning WHY one player should not be able to kill another player. Please do not just make a version of "because it is a tank" or give me your vision of what a tank is but instead give me the justification in terms of game balance and dynamics. Seriously, I would really like to hear someone present an argument. The only argument I have seen presented is ISK expenditure and that is a valid argument for some advantage but not the degree of advantage conveyed. Because, that's why.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 777	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:33:00 - [157] - Quote There are two ways of looking at this. 1. this is EVE dust 514, if ccp wants multiple players be required to kill vehicles ala small ships vs big ships, they need to completely rework the game and rebalance everything. Meaning it'd take 2-3 light suits to kill a medium, so on, A heavy would be able to stand and brawl with a tank for a short time, and if he's supported by a logi he'll win against the tank. Add in all our missing mods from eve like damage resistances and webifiers. then tanks can be permitted to require multiple people. 2. this is an fps and a good fps allows everyone to solo everyone else. meaning a militia swarm should be able to kill militia tanks, a basic swarm will solo a basic tank. Bring back the ability for infantry to kill tanks by emptying clips into them. And have 1:1 balance across the board. As it currently stands only 1 person in a tank can overpower multiple players, it's been broken like this since 1.7 av is the counter of v, av should never be unable to kill it's prey or it's by definition "broken" Furthermore the idea if a tank being able to utilize player skill to overcome it's predator is also broken as no amount if infantry skill will fix the numbers so that he can kill a tank with a non av light weapon such as a rail or assault rifle. So a tank should not be able to kill avers, they should require multiple tanks or webifiers/tracking mods to kill infantry as a large ship in eve requires to kill smaller ships if multiple avers are required to kill a single tank. Anyone saying a solo aver should not be able to kill a tank (with any form of av, it doesn't matter which) is saying the game should not be balanced because this is currently the case and it's in fact unbalanced. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1692	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:35:00 - [158] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Harpyja wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Ok, obviously it's broken and needs fixed and I'm not trying to defend it, but have you tried: Similarly tiered forgeguns? What about Proto Min Commando w/ swarms? Rail/Missile Tanks? Teamwork? Unrelated to the issue at hand, in all honestly, I'm really against a single player, no matter how dedicated to AV, being able to take on a fully proto-ed tank easily. Eventually yes, a dedicated AV should kill it eventually if not engaged or fled from, but not easily. I like this post. I agree a single AV should not be able to kill a Tank but I like to think that a single AV player should be a thorn in his side if he is spec into AVs Edit: i made a typo I strongly disagree. One player should be able to kill another player, whether in a suit or a vehicle. And I strongly disagree with you. Why are all of you so hell-bent on destroying tanks? Is it not enough if you managed to make it activate its modules and retreat? That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble. Explain your reasoning WHY one player should not be able to kill another player. Please do not just make a version of "because it is a tank" or give me your vision of what a tank is but instead give me the justification in terms of game balance and dynamics. Seriously, I would really like to hear someone present an argument. The only argument I have seen presented is ISK expenditure and that is a valid argument for some advantage but not the degree of advantage conveyed. Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Tau Lai Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 80	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:38:00 - [159] - Quote BIind Shot wrote: 3 complex damage mods, 3 proficiency proto swarms vs 2 complex 1 enhanced heavy repair with level 3 in repair proficiency. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7AwrgVwNA&feature=youtu.be Absolutely unbalanced nonsense. Working as intended. I can see you Buy a tank Buy an assault dropship
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2706	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:40:00 - [160] - Quote Atiim wrote: Harpyja wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Ok, obviously it's broken and needs fixed and I'm not trying to defend it, but have you tried: Similarly tiered forgeguns? What about Proto Min Commando w/ swarms? Rail/Missile Tanks? Teamwork? Unrelated to the issue at hand, in all honestly, I'm really against a single player, no matter how dedicated to AV, being able to take on a fully proto-ed tank easily. Eventually yes, a dedicated AV should kill it eventually if not engaged or fled from, but not easily. I like this post. I agree a single AV should not be able to kill a Tank but I like to think that a single AV player should be a thorn in his side if he is spec into AVs Edit: i made a typo I strongly disagree. One player should be able to kill another player, whether in a suit or a vehicle. And I strongly disagree with you. Why are all of you so hell-bent on destroying tanks? Is it not enough if you managed to make it activate its modules and retreat? That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble. Because that same vehicle is hell-bent on killing our team? No, it is not enough. If a vehicle doesn't/cannot die, then where is the risk involved i using one? You've also yet to list a valid reason as to why it should be that way, so I'll just write this off as bantering from a tanker who feels as if he should never die to another person. Uhmm, if I may interject here with some simple logic. Let's go with Harpyja first, you cannot force a tank to retreat if you cannot destroy it, with this current 'repdrugar' you effectively get the archimedies turtle, since the reps are both constant and high you get only a little bit closer to the tanks destruction with each hit, it was calculated as taking well over 12 volleys, any tanker with half a brain is aware of this and can become almost invincible. But let's look at the algebra 1infantry = 1 infantry now before I start this is a generalisation, Im not accounting for different tier of dropsuits. Now the above statememt is balanced because both sides are equal. So let's break it down a little. 1infantry + 1AR = 1infantry + 1RR in this case it is still balanced as they both have similar DPS and have attributes that both buff and debuff each other, so an infantry unit using an AR is no less disadvantaged than the RR (this may not be the case in reality, but you should catch my drift, the AR will exceed in some areas where the RR will not and vice versa) 1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + 1RR this currently unbalanced, since as a tank you severly outclass infantry, HOWEVER to make a tank only as strong as infantry is unfair, a little pointless and altogther useless. So we need a way of balancing this equation, we need to create a circle, cue AV. So for balance we make standard infantry greater than AV, like so 1infantry + 1RR > 1infantry + 1SL then we do the same for AV vs tan. . . . oh, hold on, since AV should require teamwork that doesn't work out, since unless the tank is destroyed all the AV has effectively done is delay the enivetable, so instead you get 1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + 1SL and 1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + RR which compiled into a single statement becomes this. 1infantry + 1SL < 1infantry + tank > 1infantry + RR this can be further simplified to 1AV < 1tank > 1RR and now you have an unbalanced statement. You see the problem is a tank is only an extension of your unit, you are still only 1 person, it is in theoretical terms nothing more than a weapon for your unit. and as such it must be counterable by another weapon weilded by a single unit, to require more than 1 person to take you out, yet allow you to take out more than 1 person (to be more effecie t than) is entirely unbalanced. Think about everything else. How many people are compulsory to take down 1 brick tanked heavy? Just one with an RE How many people are compulsory to take dow a Proto Assault? Just one in the right place How many people are required to down a sniper? Just one who knows where he is Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.

Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 409	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:41:00 - [161] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 799	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:42:00 - [162] - Quote I'd also like to state that we're having a discussion about the effectiveness of AV versus tanks (and right now a very specific type of tank). Right now, all AV affects all classes of vehicles the same and I don't think it should. CCP should approach HAVs and DS as completely separate entitles. Every time we do this number/stat shuffle you hear: tanks suck but DS is ok DS now sucks but this one tank is ok That seesaw effect is going to continue until you learn to treat them as completely separate entities that don't share static values and bonuses. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 97	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:43:00 - [163] - Quote I'm curious: How, exactly would an AV be a thorn in the tanks side, if the tanker does not regard the AV as a serious threat? Without the capability of eventually doing enough damage to the tank, then the tank driver would quickly learn that the AV is NOT a threat, and we'd end up with the situation that you see in the OP's video, where the tanker simply disregards the AV player altogether. In order for the AV to be able to at least even chase a tanker away, the tanker must feel that, given enough time, that AV player WILL be able to destroy his vehicle. If the AV is not capable of even eventually destroying the tank, then the AV will never be a credible threat, and therefor will never be a hinderance to the tanker.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3523	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:47:00 - [164] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 559	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:50:00 - [165] - Quote Cruor Abominare wrote: And buffing swarms will just create a new set of problems. The real problem is the actual design of Av in this game. All Av basically follows a simple slow firing huge burst design. This works in a lot of games because vehicles are free and losing one is of no consequence. In a game like dust there's a cost to running vehicles. lets take a step back to dropships because they really expound on this problem. A python on a good day can last 3 forge blasts before dying. Now vs one forge this means as long as the python gtfos at first hit he can escape before the forger can kill him. He is largely unkillable unless stupid. Now lets say that we decide to buff forges because we have no good counter to dropships. Now it only takes 2 shots. If the pilot is smart with flying he will still be able to escape but a forger has an excellent chance to kill. unfortunately this isn't always 1v1. Anything a drop ship pilot meets 2 forgers he's instantly dead without any chance to do anything. This doesn't create good game play especially when the risk in cost is to the tune of 400k vs potentially 2 free suits. same thing can happen to tanks by having this style of weapon we run the risk of purely alpha striking tanks when more than one swarmer is around just for the cost of having Av be able to solo.(which I'm actually for) the solution to this is to finally get of the pot and **** and ccp figure out what they want for vehicles. Either they become cheap as dirt glass canons or Av is designed in a manner with high dos, high rof, low dmg per shot weapons where a vehicle will certainly die faster to multiple Av but because the shots are spread over many than just one he can at least react and try to escape, not just be instantly blapped by the first shot. Yes, the way to balance vehicles against infantry is to have their stats more closely matched to infantry and thus their costs should more closely match infantry. You can't achieve balance by making things more and more powerful while leaving other things unchanged. However, I think it is clear we all want vehicles to be technically OP. We want them to be a challenge, even if it is a little unfair. Because, that's why.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 97	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:51:00 - [166] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight How long do you think that you would be able to force infantry away at all, if they knew that your weapons were ineffective against them?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3525	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:54:00 - [167] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight How long do you think that you would be able to force infantry away at all, if they knew that your weapons were ineffective against them? They are ineffective if they use cover, i cant shoot through things I cant enter rooms I cant go down narrow corridors
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2706	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:57:00 - [168] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight So you'd be happy with tanks ONLY being capable of supresing infantry? Really? Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1041	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:59:00 - [169] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Thumb Green wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: There are no proto tanks and with tiercide there will never be proto tanks. So proto mods are the best thing you can do. That's all I'm gonna say. There will be proto tanks, they may be called something other than proto but they will exist and tiers will always exist in one form or another in Dust just as they continue to exist in Eve. There will at best be different variants of HAVs, but nothing that will be better than the basic HAV in every area. Specialization. They will give up something to gain something. Please tell me what the Light Electron Blaster II gives up that is significant to gain what it does over the the Light Electron Blaster I. Or what the Zealot gives up that is significant to gain what it does over the Omen? Support Orbital Spawns
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1692	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:00:00 - [170] - Quote I want to make my point clear, and this guy pretty much summed it up lee corwood wrote: I'd also like to state that we're having a discussion about the effectiveness of AV versus tanks (and right now a very specific type of tank). Right now, all AV affects all classes of vehicles the same and I don't think it should. CCP should approach HAVs and DS as completely separate entitles. Every time we do this number/stat shuffle you hear: tanks suck but DS is ok DS now sucks but this one tank is ok That seesaw effect is going to continue until you learn to treat them as completely separate entities that don't share static values and bonuses. I hadn't said that triple rep Maddies are fine, or that blasters are fine. Those are two cases where AV vs tanks is not balanced. BUT, AV vs missile and railgun tanks is balanced. That's why I am against overall tank nerfs or AV buffs because where you achieve balance, you gain imbalance elsewhere. What I said before, that one AV should only force one tank to retreat, still holds merit, if everything is balanced appropriately. My missile and railgun are already forced to retreat when hit by AV. Now just make it more so for triple rep Maddies and blaster tanks. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3528	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:01:00 - [171] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight So you'd be happy with tanks ONLY being capable of supresing infantry? Really? Sometimes i do it in game Infantry can go where vehicles cant and if i have a scanner on i pick up assists too, depending on map vehicles cant even suppress and are mostly useless But vehicles can do other things too AV can suppress vehicles, but they can also kill them, OP video shows that 1 is not enough, get a 2nd tho and its dead
LittleCuteBunny 439	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:02:00 - [172] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Actually, honestly i think the whole problem would be solved with this: - Penalty (OR inability to fire) to large tank weapons against infantry, make them into what they must be, tank and installation killers. Now we have a giant shotgun on top of a tank. If a tanker wants to go against infantry then install small turrets, because thats what they are for. I agree we should not be able to solo a tank, and i also agree to the current state of the tanks, they are hard to kill, fast, great tank killers and they can dominate the battlefield, the problem is that most of the tanks nowadays run a single large turret and can kill everything. What happened to small turrets? What happened to their original purpose? (vs infantry) Be it a blaster or a rail, the tank large turrets must be really effective against what they were designed to do, other tanks, installations, vehicles, etc. It maybe unrealistic, (try to think about a 120mm sabot from a M1 against a enemy soldier), but afterall this is a scifi game. --> Bring back small turrets role against infantry and delegate large turrets to their job. This would fix tanks. If the denizens of tankers who love to kill infantry want to continue doing it again, just equip 2 good small turrets, a good crew and let it rip. I have been thinking about this, and make the small vehicle turrets a bit more fun to use. Maybe swarm launchers and HMG's as options as well. I can't hit a damn thing using moving blasters :( People want large blasters (the anti infantry turret) to be useless against infantry, they want to be able to dance away from large turrets like they do with railguns and missile. Mass drivers have a bigger splash is better than large missiles, Forge guns have greater base damage and range than railguns and HMGs melt things faster than large turrets due to its dispersion and high RoF. CCP aleays listens to bad player after looking at their data, I debate if that's because they are bad at their own game or if that's because they never play it BUT don't worry comrades at this pace we will get those mean tankers at a worst place than what they were last year. :) Retired.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 99	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:02:00 - [173] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight How long do you think that you would be able to force infantry away at all, if they knew that your weapons were ineffective against them? They are ineffective if they use cover, i cant shoot through things I cant enter rooms I cant go down narrow corridors That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them?
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1041	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:05:00 - [174] - Quote Harpyja wrote: That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble. The fck it should be that way. It's not balance to require multiple people to take on and kill one person. It's not even fcking realistic if that's what you "it's a tank, it shouldn't be solo'd" dipshits are going for. Harpyja wrote: Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat? Because when you kill it, it takes longer for it to return than if it just runs around a corner. Support Orbital Spawns
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3528	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:11:00 - [175] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 100	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:15:00 - [176] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1 Sure, no problem, then the tank driver should be limited to an AV weapon only, and should have to equip an AI turret and bring a friend to kill infantry. 2 is always better than 1, right? And around and around and around we go......
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 608	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:18:00 - [177] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1 But when 10 sync mercenaries can't take down a single experimented tank, how are you supposed to take down 3 tankers with 16 players ? Only stupid noobs with noob tank which only run into ennemies like stupid 1960 IA die into a Tank. Any person which have a brain can't die into a tank if there is no other tank.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 609	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:20:00 - [178] - Quote In the Video we can see the player can't even destroy the tank WHILE HE DON'T DO ANYTHING. In real games, the tank can shoot, run away and kill the whole team 50 time before his tank is destroyed. The tank will NEVER take that much rocket in a game, and still people defend tanks..... Their SP should be erased....
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3528	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:22:00 - [179] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1 Sure, no problem, then the tank driver should be limited to an AV weapon only, and should have to equip an AI turret and bring a friend to kill infantry. 2 is always better than 1, right? And around and around and around we go...... No il sacrifice my AV abilitys by using the blaster that way i dont have to bring anyone or even have to rely on a bluedot if i fancy playing solo
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3528	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:23:00 - [180] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it. If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you? How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1 But when 10 sync mercenaries can't take down a single experimented tank, how are you supposed to take down 3 tankers with 16 players ? Only stupid noobs with noob tank which only run into ennemies like stupid 1960 IA die into a Tank. Any person which have a brain can't die into a tank if there is no other tank. If 10ppl cannot kill 1 tank then they should quit



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