So you agree that, if an AV has enough SKILL, then he SHOULD be capable of SOLOING a vehicle, right?

Nobody's asking for it to be EASY, just POSSIBLE.

After all, why should something as limited and vulnerable as AV REQUIRE teamwork, if operating something as durable and powerful as a tank doesn't?

... and around and around and around and around we go!

I'd like to see him try against my Geddon. I'll just cycle my reps through his damage. It'll be a stalemate, with both of us being unable to kill the other. Unless he brings in friends to neut me. In which case, my point is proven.

They do now

It can be done now

I use a proto breach FG to 1 shot tanks

And tanks can kill lots of infantry, by themselves.
Your missing the point, you are saying 1 AV should only be capable of suppressing tanks.
So we turned it on its head, would you be happy if, it took at least 2 tanks just kill someone, would that be fair?

If you answered yes, I suggest you ask for blasters to be nerfed significantly.
If you answered no, then why do you think it is fair to put this restriction on Anti-Vehicle weaponry?

In wider sense it boils down to, why you as a single person in your tank should require multiple people to take down?
Please bear in mind when answering the question.

1) SP is not accountable since AV must also sacrifice a lot of skill points
Which by you count their AI fit, equipment training core upgrades, dropsuit upgrades is around about the same.

2)ISK is not a factor due to the fact a mlt tank now costs less than a Proto fit, therein mlt tanks should be incapable of killing proto dropsuits, (if ISK were a factor)

3) Real-Life is not a factor, first and foremost this is a game to be enjoyed by everyone, this meams guns don't kill in 1 shot at 300m and tanks don't become so powerful.
However if you do wish to use real-life I would like to point you toward the Artybox-Globalhawk combo, which autonomously dispatches of enemy tanks and APC's without any human input.

4)Teamwork is not a factor, we play in fixed count matches, teamwork is optional, not compulsory.

I hear this OHK argument trotted out all the time by tankers on the forums.
I have never once seen it happen in game.
Vids or it didn't happen.

I hear this OHK argument trotted out all the time by tankers on the forums.
I have never once seen it happen in game.
Vids or it didn't happen.

Be it true or false, it's anecdotal, and as such shouldn't be taken seriously.

Not a dev, just a player.

Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.

In a pub, that's never going to happen.

Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.

This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally

1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker
2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player
3a) proto AV vs proto tanker
3b) proto AV vs standard tanker
3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1)
4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well
5) efficiency against infantry
6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.

Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?

I encourage you to witness a competitive PC match. Tanks get checked very quickly by other tanks. Then dedicated purposed AV hit, and hit hard. A forge or proto swarm on a tower can work wonders in area of denial.

I may get stoned for this but in a great PC match tanks are balanced. But this is with the highest of SP players and very highly skilled and strategic tankers/vehicle users. I know public matches are different.

1 AV player shouldn't solo a tank.

1 AV does have the power to kill a tank, it mostly depends on the user if they are skilled enough to do it
How many AVers do you know can get AT LEAST 15 straigjt volleys at a tank?

2 tanks to kill a meatbag? are we fighting the power rangers in a giant mechanical suit? sorry that takes 5ppl to operate
Yet it should apparently take to people firing enough missiles to sink an aircraft carrier to destroy a tincan, hypocritical what?

1. SP will cost more for vehicle pilots if we ever get pilot/proto vehicles
No you won't get proto, and pilot suits aren't a requirement.

2. Not a factor, yet AV is crying about the price of proto AV to kill a tank where as pre 1.7 it used to be so what if my AV costs 20k it should be able to kill your 3mil vehicle
No we are annoyed about the ISK imbalance, I pay upwards of 40,000 for an AV fit, I can kill 1 tank, if im lucky, you pay 60,000 and, kill infantry, tanks amd AV. Also we wouldn't really bothered if an AV cost so much, if it did ITS BLOODY JOB

3. If its not a factor then stop going on about javilins and that it takes a 4man crew to operate a tank
Tell Spkr to stop showing vulgar videos of tanks blowing up in infantry at 5m range, capiece.

4. If teamwork is optional then again stop asking for tanks to be operated by 2 ppl and not allowing a pilot to go solo when they want since AV can solo

Blasters need a damage reduction of about 33%, but nothing else in terms of nerfs. That will not only reduce their AI effectiveness and make it more skill involved, but it will severely limit their AV effectiveness, something that must be done.

BRILLIANT TANKER LOGIC

No teamwork for me but teamwork for thee
I think that's Spk4rs ****** thing he says now I'm turning it on it's head.

You can't kill me solo but I can kill you solo, that's how it should be.

Not a dev, just a player.

Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.

In a pub, that's never going to happen.

Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.

This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally

1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker
2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player
3a) proto AV vs proto tanker
3b) proto AV vs standard tanker
3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1)
4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well
5) efficiency against infantry
6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.

Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?

Not a dev, just a player.

Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.

In a pub, that's never going to happen.

Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.

This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally

1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker
2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player
3a) proto AV vs proto tanker
3b) proto AV vs standard tanker
3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1)
4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well
5) efficiency against infantry
6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.

Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?

As the author of both a Swarm Launcher guide and a Tanking guide, I have looked at the problem from both sides.

I still think that the Swarm Launcher needs a slight damage buff. I have been advocating a 12% buff to range and damage, resulting in 250 damage per missile and a range of 200m. The trick is not to buff them too much. We donGÇÖt want a Proto Swarm Launcher to solo a tank unless the tank is stuck, or the driver is extremely inattentive. But you also want a team of 3 Swarm Launchers to be a threat to any tank, even the triple rep Maddy.

In Tank vs Tank the TTK is too short because when the Hardeners were nerfed, the Damage Mods were not. Vehicle Damage Mods need a corresponding nerf. In a Rail tank a 5 shot fight is fun and dynamic. A two shot fight is not fun, and is extremely frustrating to the victim because they have no time to react. One or two shotting should be left to Missile tanks which have to reload between volleys as a balance for their gank potential.

Forge Guns are fine. As a tanker I really noticed the difference when the Forge Gun bugs were fixed, so Tankers have to consider them to be a serious threat now.

A single player can solo a tank with Remote Explosives combined with AV Grenades, but this is balanced because they have to get very close to do it. (Balanced by range.)

Jehad Jeeps make some tankers rage and other tankers laugh, but the driver of the LAV has to sacrifice a clone to do it, and the LAV can be destroyed or avoided by the tank, so I think it is balanced.

Please print this out and tape it to the water cooler in the lunch room. Sticking it to the wall just above the urinal would be acceptable as well.

It should be possible only if AV has spent a comparable amount of SP in their AV weapons to counter a vehicle. Again, it takes 3.4 million SP to simply field a repper tank like the one in the video, but the swarm used to kill it only used at minimum 1.75 million, including getting complex damage mods. That's almost half the SP the tanker needs just to get one called out. If he spends 3.4 million on killing the tank, then yes he should stand a chance on killing the tank, but not before.

This is why tanks were changed in the first place. Because 20 million SP tanks were going down in 3 shots to a 610k SP investment in swarms.

Once you have a reasonable balance you could even add vehicle specialisations e.g. light tanks, regular tanks and even heavy tanks etc.

Maddies are supposed to be stand and deliver and 1 AV player shouldn't solo a tank. Damage over time does a better job against active tanks and burst damage is better against passive tanks.

Tanks also enjoy a ton of benefits for those SP that AV doesn't.

A tank is capable of killing both vehicles and infantry, has a ton more hitpoints, does a ton more damage, and is immune to a large percentage of other weapons in the game.

It's really starting to seem like many of the tankers on here want all the benefits, but no weaknesses.

Easy mode, if you will.

But I see your posts under dev posts! So if you're marked as a dev, does that mean you only have something to do with Eve or Valkyrie as a dev, but not with Dust? Please give us some insight into this mystery!

i laugh at the idiot that trys to take down my DS as a lone swarmer.