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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1238
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Posted - 2014.04.30 04:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
BIind Shot wrote:
He's just sitting there taking no evasive action what so ever.. you don't think that's a little op?
Not op at all. HE set up his Maddy to deal with the sustained DPS of swarms and to an extent, forges. He is very vulnerable to alpha damage. 3 shots from a double damage modded militia railgun, 3 RE, or some PE would destroy that fit. Whereas a setup with 2 hardeners and a plate would easily handle that same railgun and RE and PE, but would suffer against those swarms because of the inability to rep back that health.
It isn't that repper tanks are OP, it's that the video doesn't show all possible tank counters.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1240
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Posted - 2014.04.30 08:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:
Unrelated to the issue at hand, in all honestly, I'm really against a single player, no matter how dedicated to AV, being able to take on a fully proto-ed tank easily. Eventually yes, a dedicated AV should kill it eventually if not engaged or fled from, but not easily.
I say this every time and I will say it again, fck that noise. There is absolutely no reason AV shouldn't be able to solo a tank, at least on the same tier. Here's the kicker about the video and what you said, that tank ain't any where near being proto. Sure it's likely got complex reps but it's still a standard tank being shot at by proto swarms. Again, to anyone that says AV shouldn't be able to solo a tank up to it's tier, f u c k that noise. It should be a challenge for standard AV to take out a standard tank with basic or enhanced modules or but not fcking impossible and proto AV should be able to kick that same tank around like a tin can. Of course that last part is for when proto AV can be balanced against proto vehicles at which point it'll be as hard to properly fit complex modules on a std tank as it is to fit them on a std suit now. Though I can agree that as it stands now with only std vehicles it should take effort to solo them with proto AV but standard AV should still actually stand a chance against a fcking standard vehicle. Also in regards to tanks specifically, the "it's a tank" argument only works against weapons not designed to kill it; it does not and will never work against weapons specifically designed to kill it.
Then give up your sidearm to run AV.
If you want my tanks to always die to you, then you always need to die to my infantry character. There's balance for you.
And until we get proto vehicles (HA!) then either balance proto weapons to standard vehicles, or remove proto and advanced AV. There's some balance for you too.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1240
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Posted - 2014.04.30 09:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Repper tanks are set up to handle AV. They are vulnerable to alpha damage, such as rails (proto railgun kills then in 4 hits from full shield and armor, 3 if one or more hit the weak spot) RE (3 will kill it from full shield and armor, 2 if both are on the weakspot) And PE (lay a PE on top of an RE. 2 RE and 2 PE kills a repper tank instantly)
This isn't about reppers being OP. This is about people being unwilling to field multiple counters for different setups, and wanting their weapon to kill all vehicles regardless.
As well, that swarm fit given costs about 1.75 million SP to get. My repper tank costs 2.5 million SP to fit the two complex and one enhanced repper at repair rate 5 a militia blaster and nothing else. This does not include any skills outside of those needed to fit what is required to deploy your vehicle or dropsuit. However, I have not the CPU nor the PG to run a militia blaster. Since a large turret is required, in order to even call in this tank, I need to spend a total of 3.1 million sp, (large turret fitting skill to 5 plus prerequisite skills in order to have enough CPU, armor fitting optimization to 3 to have enough PG) just to have enough fitting to call in this tank. So you are expecting half of the skill investment I need to even field this tank to destroy it. You have another 1.35 million SP to spend before you can talk about wanting to solo my tank. This was the problem pre-1.7, and the reason tanks even were even touched to begin with. Because tankers were spending 20 million SP only to be killed in 3 swarms by someone who spent a total of 610k SP.
I gladly concede that standard and advanced swarms are far too weaker than proto, although I find I can have some success running advanced swarms on my Calmanndo. I'm totally behind bring the lesser swarms up to proto's effectiveness.To fix this, I would have all swarms fire 6 missiles, and have damage per missile increase through the tiers:
STD: 200
ADV: 210
PRO:220
This keeps proto swarms where they are now, but makes standard and advanced swarms much more viable.
In conclusion to those upset over repper tanks, skill into more AV options besides your swarm/forge, or bring people along who have skilled into them. The AR wasn't supposed to be the best in every infantry situation pre-1.7, just as swarms and forges are supposed to be the best in every vehicle situation now.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1240
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:I'm curious:
How, exactly would an AV be a thorn in the tanks side, if the tanker does not regard the AV as a serious threat?
Without the capability of eventually doing enough damage to the tank, then the tank driver would quickly learn that the AV is NOT a threat, and we'd end up with the situation that you see in the OP's video, where the tanker simply disregards the AV player altogether.
In order for the AV to be able to at least even chase a tanker away, the tanker must feel that, given enough time, that AV player WILL be able to destroy his vehicle.
If the AV is not capable of even eventually destroying the tank, then the AV will never be a credible threat, and therefor will never be a hinderance to the tanker.
Because AV is not only relegated to forges and swarms. AV is Anti-Vehicle, and anything that kills them can fufill this role. Large railguns, PE, and RE all can fulfill this role extremely well, as can large blasters.
Frankly, we need to make large blasters into AV, but not until we have all the vehicles in the game. Beyond blaster tanks and the occasional dropship, there really isn't much for AV to shoot at.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1240
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:So I guess we shouldn't have to bring a friend either? Sure if you just happy at scaring it away or you really know how to solo a vehicle So you agree that, if an AV has enough SKILL, then he SHOULD be capable of SOLOING a vehicle, right? Nobody's asking for it to be EASY, just POSSIBLE. After all, why should something as limited and vulnerable as AV REQUIRE teamwork, if operating something as durable and powerful as a tank doesn't? ... and around and around and around and around we go! 
It should be possible only if AV has spent a comparable amount of SP in their AV weapons to counter a vehicle. Again, it takes 3.4 million SP to simply field a repper tank like the one in the video, but the swarm used to kill it only used at minimum 1.75 million, including getting complex damage mods. That's almost half the SP the tanker needs just to get one called out. If he spends 3.4 million on killing the tank, then yes he should stand a chance on killing the tank, but not before.
This is why tanks were changed in the first place. Because 20 million SP tanks were going down in 3 shots to a 610k SP investment in swarms.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1240
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:So I guess we shouldn't have to bring a friend either? Sure if you just happy at scaring it away or you really know how to solo a vehicle So you agree that, if an AV has enough SKILL, then he SHOULD be capable of SOLOING a vehicle, right? Nobody's asking for it to be EASY, just POSSIBLE. After all, why should something as limited and vulnerable as AV REQUIRE teamwork, if operating something as durable and powerful as a tank doesn't? ... and around and around and around and around we go! It should be possible only if AV has spent a comparable amount of SP in their AV weapons to counter a vehicle. Again, it takes 3.4 million SP to simply field a repper tank like the one in the video, but the swarm used to kill it only used at minimum 1.75 million, including getting complex damage mods. That's almost half the SP the tanker needs just to get one called out. If he spends 3.4 million on killing the tank, then yes he should stand a chance on killing the tank, but not before. This is why tanks were changed in the first place. Because 20 million SP tanks were going down in 3 shots to a 610k SP investment in swarms. Tanks also enjoy a ton of benefits for those SP that AV doesn't. A tank is capable of killing both vehicles and infantry, has a ton more hitpoints, does a ton more damage, and is immune to a large percentage of other weapons in the game. It's really starting to seem like many of the tankers on here want all the benefits, but no weaknesses. Easy mode, if you will.
A tank shouldn't be killing infantry easy unless he fits small turrets.
So yes, we should have a ton more hitpoints, do a ton more damage, and only be vulnerable to certain weapons, and require either teamwork or heavy specialization into those weapons to threaten me. But I should be fitting small turrets in order to combat you on the ground effectively. Just as one shouldn't expect my Eve battleship to fall to a single frigate. It should take at least 3, and very possibly 4-5 frigates to down my battleship. But my battleship has trouble hitting those frigates unless I fit frigate drones to it. Same for small turrets. Those are my infantry defense, while my main turret is for killing other vehicles.
However, other than blaster tanks there really isn't a threat on the battlefield beyond a very skilled dropship pilot. So until MAVs and heavy aircraft and a whole slew of vehicles for me to shoot at is released, I would see blasters remain as they are. Gives my large missiles something to hunt.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1241
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:
So yes, we should have a ton more hitpoints, do a ton more damage, and only be vulnerable to certain weapons, and require either teamwork or heavy specialization into those weapons to threaten me. But I should be fitting small turrets in order to combat you on the ground effectively. Just as one shouldn't expect my Eve battleship to fall to a single frigate. It should take at least 3, and very possibly 4-5 frigates to down my battleship. But my battleship has trouble hitting those frigates unless I fit frigate drones to it. Same for small turrets. Those are my infantry defense, while my main turret is for killing other vehicles.
Actually, in EVE, you can totally slay a battleship in a single frigate. An Ishkur can tank and kill the light drones, then just tackle and whittle down even the most expensive battleship until it's dead.
I'd like to see him try against my Geddon. I'll just cycle my reps through his damage. It'll be a stalemate, with both of us being unable to kill the other. Unless he brings in friends to neut me. In which case, my point is proven.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1244
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
I can contribute some tanks for testing if need be.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1251
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Marcus Stormfire wrote:The triple rep Maddy is fun to run around with but it is a bit of a beast. I agree it can annoy the heck out of a lot of players and be near invulnerable to those on the receiving end who don't know how to deal with them. Perhaps lower the Rep amount if anything.
However before we all jump on the triple rep Maddy nerf bandwagon you guys should think of more interesting and unorthodox tactics to remove them from the battlefield. I just had loads of fun running solo and removing Madrugars including a few triple rep beasts (amongst many other tanks). Just think outside the box and do some theory crafting. Thinking of clever ways to turn the tide of battle is part of the fun of the game.
-Marcus How about you provide some of said tactics so that the rest of us may test them ourselves?
1.REs. Three total will kill it, or two if they are next to/on the weak point.
2. A maxed out assault forge gun can dps it down in 4 shots. Less if one can hit the weakspot.
3. Large railgun. Particle Cannon takes 4 shots, damage mod reduces that to 3, and hitting the weakpoint with a damage mod reduces that to 2.
4. PEs. Lay an RE, switch to your PE, and lay the PE on top of the RE. The double combo does about 2700 damage. Two of these close together pops a repper tank easy.
5. Maxed out breach forge gun can two shot a repper tank, and maybe even one shot if you hit the weakspot.
6. Maxed out swarms, if you begin your attack from behind so the missiles hit the weakspot.
There you go. Begin testing.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1251
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 01:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote:Increasing swarm launcher clip size could be a possible solution.
Increasing it by 1 would have a single clip of a maxed out swarm killing a maxed out repper maddy. This would be an acceptable kill.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1253
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Posted - 2014.05.02 06:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:
Wow, let's see, forge guns, swarms, RE/PE combo, railgun. You sir, are a genius. Why didn't anyone think of these before?
Clearly you needed someone to tell you.
Nothing Certain wrote:How about you provide some of said tactics so that the rest of us may test them ourselves?
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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