|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
94
   |
Posted - 2014.04.30 12:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Swarms are an assistant AV. Who are you assisting? Link a DEV quote saying this or your entire argument falls apart. Though for arguments sake, why would anyone spec into Swarm Launchers if you have no realistic chance of destroying a vehicle, while also having to invest the same amount of ISK & SP as other AV options, and cannot use your AV weapon against infantry, like every other AV weapon in the game (bar AV Grenades & Proximity Explosives.) Not to mention the fact that the vehicle(s) your fighting with the Swarm Launcher only require 1 player to operate, and the fact a weapon that requires multiple people to use successfully is not a viable option in a competitive environment (ie, Planetary Conquest) while in a 16v16 engagement.
-åTHIS.
If Swarm Launchers are supposed to be an "assistant AV", then I'd like at least half of the SP I've wasted on them refunded, please, because there's no way in hell that I should have to grind the same amount of SP as any other weapon just to be an "assistant".
If I had known beforehand that I was speccing to be somebody's assistant, I would have spent those same SP on any other weapon that I'd actually be able to kill with by myself, or on a Logi and be much more useful to my team. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 13:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:The issue with making large blasters ineffective against infantry is that this removes the purpose of a tank.
Removal of AI functionality of large blasters only works if a tanker can run a tank without a main turret and instead get a small turret.
Otherwise tanks will be pointless for anyone who runs solo, except for counter tanking.
Remember: Tanks are not infantry. They do not fullfill any function aside from killing.
So use teamwork. It's supposed to be a squad-based, team-centric game isn't it?
Isn't that what tankers keep telling AV?
Equip a small turret on your tank and bring a teammate to kill infantry, while the driver focusses on driving and counter tanking. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm curious:
How, exactly would an AV be a thorn in the tanks side, if the tanker does not regard the AV as a serious threat?
Without the capability of eventually doing enough damage to the tank, then the tank driver would quickly learn that the AV is NOT a threat, and we'd end up with the situation that you see in the OP's video, where the tanker simply disregards the AV player altogether.
In order for the AV to be able to at least even chase a tanker away, the tanker must feel that, given enough time, that AV player WILL be able to destroy his vehicle.
If the AV is not capable of even eventually destroying the tank, then the AV will never be a credible threat, and therefor will never be a hinderance to the tanker. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Harpyja wrote:
Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat?
When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight
How long do you think that you would be able to force infantry away at all, if they knew that your weapons were ineffective against them? |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
99
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Harpyja wrote:
Please tell me WHY you HAVE to destroy the tank to consider your job done. Again, let me ask you, is it not enough if you forced the tank to retreat?
When tanks consider their job done by simply forcing infantry to retreat then we can discuss this. Until then, no. Sometimes its enough You force the infantry away so your infantry can push up and take the point Sometimes im fine with this because the match goes on for longer so i can find kills later on Sometimes you just want to kill everything in sight How long do you think that you would be able to force infantry away at all, if they knew that your weapons were ineffective against them? They are ineffective if they use cover, i cant shoot through things I cant enter rooms I cant go down narrow corridors
That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it.
If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you?
How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them? |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
100
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:
That's not what I'm referring to, and you know it.
If infantry realizes (as the tank in the video did with the swarm launcher), that your weapons are incapable of killing them when you DO shoot them, how long do you think they would continue to run away from you?
How long before they stop taking cover altogether, and begin simply ignoring you, once they realize that you do not pose any threat to them?
TBH id get a friend, 2 is always better than 1
Sure, no problem, then the tank driver should be limited to an AV weapon only, and should have to equip an AI turret and bring a friend to kill infantry.
2 is always better than 1, right?
And around and around and around we go......  |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
101
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:So I guess we shouldn't have to bring a friend either? Sure if you just happy at scaring it away or you really know how to solo a vehicle
So you agree that, if an AV has enough SKILL, then he SHOULD be capable of SOLOING a vehicle, right?
Nobody's asking for it to be EASY, just POSSIBLE.
After all, why should something as limited and vulnerable as AV REQUIRE teamwork, if operating something as durable and powerful as a tank doesn't?
... and around and around and around and around we go! |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:I'm curious:
How, exactly would an AV be a thorn in the tanks side, if the tanker does not regard the AV as a serious threat?
Without the capability of eventually doing enough damage to the tank, then the tank driver would quickly learn that the AV is NOT a threat, and we'd end up with the situation that you see in the OP's video, where the tanker simply disregards the AV player altogether.
In order for the AV to be able to at least even chase a tanker away, the tanker must feel that, given enough time, that AV player WILL be able to destroy his vehicle.
If the AV is not capable of even eventually destroying the tank, then the AV will never be a credible threat, and therefor will never be a hinderance to the tanker. Because AV is not only relegated to forges and swarms. AV is Anti-Vehicle, and anything that kills them can fufill this role. Large railguns, PE, and RE all can fulfill this role extremely well, as can large blasters. Frankly, we need to make large blasters into AV, but not until we have all the vehicles in the game. Beyond blaster tanks and the occasional dropship, there really isn't much for AV to shoot at.
No, but if I devote a significant portion of my SP into swarms (comparable to what it takes to operate a vehicle, for example), which are a SPECIFICALLY AV ONLY weapon, and completely useless against infantry, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to use them for their intended purpose, without also having to spec into two or three other AV weapons (or team up with someone else who has). |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:So I guess we shouldn't have to bring a friend either? Sure if you just happy at scaring it away or you really know how to solo a vehicle So you agree that, if an AV has enough SKILL, then he SHOULD be capable of SOLOING a vehicle, right? Nobody's asking for it to be EASY, just POSSIBLE. After all, why should something as limited and vulnerable as AV REQUIRE teamwork, if operating something as durable and powerful as a tank doesn't? ... and around and around and around and around we go! It should be possible only if AV has spent a comparable amount of SP in their AV weapons to counter a vehicle. Again, it takes 3.4 million SP to simply field a repper tank like the one in the video, but the swarm used to kill it only used at minimum 1.75 million, including getting complex damage mods. That's almost half the SP the tanker needs just to get one called out. If he spends 3.4 million on killing the tank, then yes he should stand a chance on killing the tank, but not before. This is why tanks were changed in the first place. Because 20 million SP tanks were going down in 3 shots to a 610k SP investment in swarms.
Tanks also enjoy a ton of benefits for those SP that AV doesn't.
A tank is capable of killing both vehicles and infantry, has a ton more hitpoints, does a ton more damage, and is immune to a large percentage of other weapons in the game.
It's really starting to seem like many of the tankers on here want all the benefits, but no weaknesses.
Easy mode, if you will. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
109
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I'll say it again, the balance is fine.
The outside is SUPPOSED to be dominated by vehicles.
The only problem is player stupidity and a refusal to put up with their own vehicles. You can't fix stupid, you can only treat the symptoms.
End matches faster, don't wreck the game's balance because of stupid entitled assault players who want to be able to do everything with equal efficiency.
Wow. Just... wow....  |
|
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
109
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:So Takihiro, I'm calling you out, give me an answer.
Why should it take multiple AV units to destroy a single player in a tank? What reason do you have that permits a single person to surpass more than multiplemof hos designated counter? Because its a lazy counter that requires no foresight, planning, ISK investment, SP sink or geographical advantage. You're also on the wrong part of the map for killing things. Stick to the city. Basically, you dont deserve to kill a tank.
Dude, seriously, go eat your paste and let the grown-ups talk. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
115
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 11:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
I can't, off the top of my head, think of a single other game that I've ever played where a particular build or loadout can just sit and absorb damage, completely ignoring an enemy shooting at them.
At least not without using some sort of hack or glitch.
I'm not asking to be able to one-shot tanks all day with my swarm launcher. I don't even expect to solo every tank on the field, I know I'm not THAT good, and I understand that there are a lot of tankers out there with MUCH more skill than me.
BUT...
If all AV weapons require the same SP commitment, then they should all be equally effective. I haven't dumped the SP I have into Swarm Launchers just to be an "assistant". That's like saying ARs arent supposed to kill, they're just supposed to help CRs kill.
If they aren't meant to solo tanks under any circumstances, then they should have their SP requirements reduced, and I'd like a full refund so I can spec into something that can, like FGs, or maybe I'll spec into vehicles myself.
Either that, or allow me to "dumb-fire" them against infantry because, for a weapon that ONLY works against vehicles, they don't seem to be very effective against them.
Again, and I cannot stess enough, I'm NOT looking to one-shot tanks or win every fight but, when I DO go up against an enemy vehicle it would be nice to know that, whatever the outcome, the victor will be decided by player SKILL, and not the quality or price of their gear.
I just want a fair, fighting chance.
Is that too much to ask? |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
121
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 10:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:I've found it to be possible.
Min commando Mk.0
Twin cx dmg mods
Wyyrokomi swarm
Prof 1
Reload2
Took 12 volleys against a tank (whom i paid) sitting still, about 75% of the missiles hit the weak point.
2 questions about this:
What kind of tank and how was it fitted?
In an actual in-game encounter, do you really believe that any tanker (or his teammates, for that matter) would actually sit still and allow you to fire 12 volleys at their weak spot, without evading, repairing, or just shooting you after the first or second volley hit? |
|
|
| |
|