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BIind Shot
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Posted - 2014.04.30 02:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
3 complex damage mods, 3 proficiency proto swarms vs 2 complex 1 enhanced heavy repair with level 3 in repair proficiency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7AwrgVwNA&feature=youtu.be
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 02:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alex-P-Keaton Kramer wrote:
He's just sitting there taking no evasive action what so ever.. you don't think that's a little op?
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 08:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
I reviewed the vid and it would seem like the time to lock on and fire is longer than ccp intended. The lock on time for proto swarms is 1.05 seconds; I was firing on average every 3 seconds.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 11:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
I feel like tanks would be balanced if they removed the large blaster from the game. They could still kill infantry with the missiles and even rails but they would be less efficient at it.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
BIind Shot wrote:I feel like tanks would be balanced if they removed the large blaster from the game. They could still kill infantry with the missiles and even rails but they would be less efficient at it.
And this would force them to use 2 small torrents and 2 other gunners if they wish to be more proficient at killing infantry. See how that balances out? takes 3 Av guys to kill 3 guys in a tank.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
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Posted - 2014.04.30 11:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
G Torq wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire. HAH!
I don't know if you guys have heard but duna actually has a rule in his corp. No tanks are allowed to fire at one another in pubs.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 12:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
The av weapons aren't too far from one another.
Kaalakiota Forge Gun: 1440, 3 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2100, 4.5 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1500, 2.25 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher: 1320, 2-3 sec ROF, 4.5 sec reload.
I'll talk to the tanker about shooting some vids with the forge guns.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 12:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
BIind Shot wrote:The av weapons aren't too far from one another.
Kaalakiota Forge Gun: 1440, 3 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2100, 4.5 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1500, 2.25 sec ROF, 5 sec reload time. Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher: 1320, 2-3 sec ROF, 4.5 sec reload.
I'll talk to the tanker about shooting some vids with the forge guns.
I believe the forge guns will have better outcomes because they get more from the proficiency skill and damage mods. It being 1 lump sum of damage over 6 missiles dealing moderate damage.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
208
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Posted - 2014.04.30 13:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:The issue with making large blasters ineffective against infantry is that this removes the purpose of a tank. Removal of AI functionality of large blasters only works if a tanker can run a tank without a main turret and instead get a small turret. Otherwise tanks will be pointless for anyone who runs solo, except for counter tanking.
Remember: Tanks are not infantry. They do not fullfill any function aside from killing.
They should of gave infantry a full respec and told us they were going to switch game dynamics from FPS to 3rd person tank simulator. I'd like to play this game but I refuse if my only role is to be a cadaver for vehicle characters.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote: And I strongly disagree with you. Why are all of you so hell-bent on destroying tanks? Is it not enough if you managed to make it activate its modules and retreat?
That's how it should be. A dedicated AV vs a dedicated tank won't be able to kill the tank, but it will be a huge hindrance to the tank and limit its abilities. Though two or more dedicated AV and the dedicated tank should be in trouble.
Because that same vehicle is hell-bent on killing our team?
No, it is not enough. If a vehicle doesn't/cannot die, then where is the risk involved i using one? You've also yet to list a valid reason as to why it should be that way, so I'll just write this off as bantering from a tanker who feels as if he should never die to another person.[/quote]
Uhmm, if I may interject here with some simple logic. Let's go with Harpyja first, you cannot force a tank to retreat if you cannot destroy it, with this current 'repdrugar' you effectively get the archimedies turtle, since the reps are both constant and high you get only a little bit closer to the tanks destruction with each hit, it was calculated as taking well over 12 volleys, any tanker with half a brain is aware of this and can become almost invincible.
But let's look at the algebra
1infantry = 1 infantry now before I start this is a generalisation, Im not accounting for different tier of dropsuits. Now the above statememt is balanced because both sides are equal. So let's break it down a little.
1infantry + 1AR = 1infantry + 1RR in this case it is still balanced as they both have similar DPS and have attributes that both buff and debuff each other, so an infantry unit using an AR is no less disadvantaged than the RR (this may not be the case in reality, but you should catch my drift, the AR will exceed in some areas where the RR will not and vice versa)
1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + 1RR this currently unbalanced, since as a tank you severly outclass infantry, HOWEVER to make a tank only as strong as infantry is unfair, a little pointless and altogther useless. So we need a way of balancing this equation, we need to create a circle, cue AV.
So for balance we make standard infantry greater than AV, like so 1infantry + 1RR > 1infantry + 1SL
then we do the same for AV vs tan. . . . oh, hold on, since AV should require teamwork that doesn't work out, since unless the tank is destroyed all the AV has effectively done is delay the enivetable, so instead you get
1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + 1SL and 1infantry + 1tank > 1infantry + RR which compiled into a single statement becomes this.
1infantry + 1SL < 1infantry + tank > 1infantry + RR this can be further simplified to 1AV < 1tank > 1RR and now you have an unbalanced statement.
You see the problem is a tank is only an extension of your unit, you are still only 1 person, it is in theoretical terms nothing more than a weapon for your unit. and as such it must be counterable by another weapon weilded by a single unit, to require more than 1 person to take you out, yet allow you to take out more than 1 person (to be more effecie t than) is entirely unbalanced.
Think about everything else. How many people are compulsory to take down 1 brick tanked heavy? Just one with an RE How many people are compulsory to take dow a Proto Assault? Just one in the right place How many people are required to down a sniper? Just one who knows where he is [/quote]
I did the math and came up with 12 volleys the other day but someone told me that the shields would of absorbed more than I had thought due to regen even when being damaged. Redoing the math came up with 15 volleys; This is a slightly different circumstance. I only had proficiency 3 and no rapid reload. The tank only had 3 in repair proficiency and as you can see in the video after I unloaded a clip his armor would be fully healed before I could finish reloading. It was completely impervious to my swarms, just sitting there not moving at all. It may be more than 15. I didn't take into account the animation for actually firing the swarms.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
211
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
iliel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Not a dev, just a player.
Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.
In a pub, that's never going to happen.
Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.
This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally
1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker 2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player 3a) proto AV vs proto tanker 3b) proto AV vs standard tanker 3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1) 4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well 5) efficiency against infantry 6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.
Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?
Give us a way to (a) grab onto a tank and drop a bomb inside of it to kill the gunner. (perhaps add some kind skill to grenades that increases the probability that the nade will make it inside? also perhaps add some sort of button combination for this task so that it is not as easy as L2, tanker down.) (b) grab onto and enter the tank and somehow fight the gunner (maybe some random sequence of buttons determines who wins). (c) shoot gunners/pilots out of tanks. Note that all of these should apply to dropships as well. LAVs already allow us to shoot and kill gunners. Also, I don't understand how the empty seats in Dropships, LAVs, and Tanks are restricted from enemy access? If a tank drives into the midst of 10 enemies without any backup, someone should be able to get into the tank - - this makes sense.
That sounds so ******* cool but I don't see anyway to implement that. I'm pretty sure the 60+ metric ton tank has a lock on the hatch. lol
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
211
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
If we're bring real life into this **** then a swarm launcher should be able to take out 6 tanks.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYiq8ardM-U
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
212
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Posted - 2014.04.30 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think the sweet spot does like 210% damage for a whopping 5700. Could one shot this maddy in question; but hitting a tanks sweet spot is pretty uncommon depends really how lucky you are. Not to make the shot but for the tank to ass face you and stay still long enough. It might be 180% tho.. which is about 4900 which would not 1 shot any maddy.
Edit: forgot the +10% to armor. It could 1 shot this maddy but not any maddy with an armor plate. Not sure tho. I've never really ran heavy. I have an alt but I only play on him ever blue moon or so.. If someone could confirm the numbers.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
212
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Posted - 2014.04.30 17:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wiyrkomi Breach with proficiency 5 and 3 complex damage mods to the sweet spot does 5552. It would one shot the tank in question but like I said you would have to be pretty ******* lucky. You would have to be on a tower(not being sniped) and the tank would have to face away from you and sit there for a few seconds. Doable but very circumstantial. If I wanted to play a game of luck I'd go down to the seniors home and get in on an enthralling game of bingo..
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
213
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
MockHolliday wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Not a dev, just a player.
Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.
In a pub, that's never going to happen.
Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.
This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally
1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker 2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player 3a) proto AV vs proto tanker 3b) proto AV vs standard tanker 3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1) 4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well 5) efficiency against infantry 6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.
Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?
I encourage you to witness a competitive PC match. Tanks get checked very quickly by other tanks. Then dedicated purposed AV hit, and hit hard. A forge or proto swarm on a tower can work wonders in area of denial. I may get stoned for this but in a great PC match tanks are balanced. But this is with the highest of SP players and very highly skilled and strategic tankers/vehicle users. I know public matches are different.
We haven't used any forgers in any of the pc's I've been a part of in the last month. In the pc's I'm in the tanks check the tanks.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Not a dev, just a player.
Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.
In a pub, that's never going to happen.
Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.
This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally
1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker 2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player 3a) proto AV vs proto tanker 3b) proto AV vs standard tanker 3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1) 4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well 5) efficiency against infantry 6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.
Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?
As the author of both a Swarm Launcher guide and a Tanking guide, I have looked at the problem from both sides. I still think that the Swarm Launcher needs a slight damage buff. I have been advocating a 12% buff to range and damage, resulting in 250 damage per missile and a range of 200m. The trick is not to buff them too much. We donGÇÖt want a Proto Swarm Launcher to solo a tank unless the tank is stuck, or the driver is extremely inattentive. But you also want a team of 3 Swarm Launchers to be a threat to any tank, even the triple rep Maddy. In Tank vs Tank the TTK is too short because when the Hardeners were nerfed, the Damage Mods were not. Vehicle Damage Mods need a corresponding nerf. In a Rail tank a 5 shot fight is fun and dynamic. A two shot fight is not fun, and is extremely frustrating to the victim because they have no time to react. One or two shotting should be left to Missile tanks which have to reload between volleys as a balance for their gank potential. Forge Guns are fine. As a tanker I really noticed the difference when the Forge Gun bugs were fixed, so Tankers have to consider them to be a serious threat now. A single player can solo a tank with Remote Explosives combined with AV Grenades, but this is balanced because they have to get very close to do it. (Balanced by range.) Jehad Jeeps make some tankers rage and other tankers laugh, but the driver of the LAV has to sacrifice a clone to do it, and the LAV can be destroyed or avoided by the tank, so I think it is balanced. Please print this out and tape it to the water cooler in the lunch room. Sticking it to the wall just above the urinal would be acceptable as well.
I've started putting Re's on the side of my squad mates tank. He pulls up beside them and BOOM. No reason to kill myself.
Probably should of kept this little trick to myself <.< >.>
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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Posted - 2014.05.01 10:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's funny isn't it? It's like they don't realize that AV stands for anti-vehicle. As in vehicle gone, not there gone bye bye.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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Posted - 2014.05.01 11:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am. The tanker I used with the recording equipment is a pretty busy guy with work and is a pastor at his church.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.05.02 04:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
SeargentSAVAGE wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Not a dev, just a player.
Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time.
In a pub, that's never going to happen.
Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire.
This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally
1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker 2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player 3a) proto AV vs proto tanker 3b) proto AV vs standard tanker 3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1) 4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well 5) efficiency against infantry 6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players.
Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this?
Oh and hopefully you read this one DEV, you realize you're trying to solve a problem with the best tank in the game at the moment. If you buff AV or make swarms shoot faster or add another shot to the swarm you can't only think about what it would do to this tank you got to think about how it would almost make every other tank useless and just one easy kill. This is the best tank in the game at the moment until hit with REs or PEs. Like I said and I seen many others say this tank is completely fair seeing that 3 REs or 3 PEs could blow this thing sky high. Another thing to think about this tank is only a problem when its coming from DNS seeing that they have unlimited ISK at the moment once it gets blown up another will follow, then another, then another. That's the other true issue with tanking at the moment, I got a fully proto tanking alt but I've basically have been force in retirement with my tanker because these guys can pull out nonstop proto tanks when tankers outside of DNS can only pull out about 2-3 then are forced in the frontline which is just ridiculous honestly
3 PE's would only do 2250 damage.. I'd like to see your ******** as math as to how that can pop a tank with ehp of 5200.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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BIind Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2014.05.02 04:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Atiim wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote:Increasing swarm launcher clip size could be a possible solution. Respectfully, increasing the clip will be a lateral move at best. none of the major issues with Swarms will be solved by giving them a 4 round clip. Actually it would increase the Swarm Launcher's DPS, and sustained damage. Though the true problem lies in the 3x Rep Madrugar. Making these an active module would solve things, without unbalancing other V/AV in other areas (ie, AV vs. DS) There are more problems with swarms than just a triple rep maddy. Assault dropships hitting their burner and having a get-out-of-jail free card comes to mind. Simply increasing the SL clip size will do absolutely nothing for the SL meta-game. You can't get mad if someone is smart enough to know when to retreat and save them selves some isk. That's like saying someone ran into a room where he knew a enemy was, but when he got there it was a heavy with an HMG and he decided to retreat. Besides dropships are more vulnerable to av than tanks are, when I ads I retreat when I hit half shields, the only time I really die to av is when I'm hovering low surrounded by structures and get hit by a swarm or forge and smack into a wall or something.
How are dropships more susceptible to AV? They get a passive 45% resistance to swarm; the swarms have a lock on distance of 175m and the missiles can't travel past 400 meters.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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Posted - 2014.05.02 08:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Marcus Stormfire wrote:The triple rep Maddy is fun to run around with but it is a bit of a beast. I agree it can annoy the heck out of a lot of players and be near invulnerable to those on the receiving end who don't know how to deal with them. Perhaps lower the Rep amount if anything.
However before we all jump on the triple rep Maddy nerf bandwagon you guys should think of more interesting and unorthodox tactics to remove them from the battlefield. I just had loads of fun running solo and removing Madrugars including a few triple rep beasts (amongst many other tanks). Just think outside the box and do some theory crafting. Thinking of clever ways to turn the tide of battle is part of the fun of the game.
-Marcus How about you provide some of said tactics so that the rest of us may test them ourselves? 1.REs. Three total will kill it, or two if they are next to/on the weak point. 2. A maxed out assault forge gun can dps it down in 4 shots. Less if one can hit the weakspot. 3. Large railgun. Particle Cannon takes 4 shots, damage mod reduces that to 3, and hitting the weakpoint with a damage mod reduces that to 2. 4. PEs. Lay an RE, switch to your PE, and lay the PE on top of the RE. The double combo does about 2700 damage. Two of these close together pops a repper tank easy. 5. Maxed out breach forge gun can two shot a repper tank, and maybe even one shot if you hit the weakspot. 6. Maxed out swarms, if you begin your attack from behind so the missiles hit the weakspot. There you go. Begin testing. All of these tactics involve the use of human intelligence. You are asking these peasants for too much.
Hara-kiri before you dishonor yourself and your family any further.
and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".
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