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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
733
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Posted - 2014.03.31 12:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
How are these new changes working out for you?
Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now.
But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least.
And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield.
Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound.
While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build.
Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep
492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4)
This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you!
I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place.
I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died.
It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4729
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Posted - 2014.03.31 12:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Like I said the other day, shield tanks are pretty much where they should be. Armour tanks with reppers are OP, because armour reppers needed a nerf MORE than hardeners did, and never got one. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1795
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Posted - 2014.03.31 12:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Judge is coming after your rep stacking.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking.
People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed
Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle
Intelligence is OP
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4732
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle
Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option.
Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3171
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
@ OP
Ive deleted all my tanks fits and im trying to rebuild them
Its easier to build up my maddy atm, the passive reps help alot its just what do i want on it and how will i play, swarms are the main issue since they do deal full damage but hardener on the damage would be 100% at least and the hardener is ignored anyways but i find against rail tanks it doesnt seem to matter
My gunlogis are the real problem, i either go 2 hardener and use both at the same time since 1 is useless but my activation time is 30sec max so i have to be able to get out and wait till they cooldown or i could try without which seems to be even more of a death sentance but rails cropple shields anyways
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
The choice between gunlogi and maddy is shifting towards the maddy more often, it can take more punishment and actually tank damage, i find my logi is become more useless since if basic swarms can chew through the 1 hardener then everything else will just be a hot knife through butter
Intelligence is OP
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GeneralButtNaked
Amarr Templars
970
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option.
Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings.
It isn't a viable fit though.
It is great versus infantry, but horrible versus tanks. It can't take any sort of high alpha, and in any sort of competitive environment, an IAFG once it works right will rip it to shreds.
The only reason why it seems OP is because people are incapable of altering their strategy. If you see a full rep Maddy, you call in a Sica and pop it in 20 seconds, problem solved.
There is a reason why MLT tanks are that strong. It is to prevent high SP tankers from dominating. Use the tools CCP gave you.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
296
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle
No one wants to be the mean kid in the sandbox that gets all the toys and bullies the other clone babies. Why do you want to be that kid?
FAME
Click for Vehicle Support
Click for Recruitment
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3173
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option. Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings.
Why is it the only viable fit? oh yea hardener nerf in which they are becoming a more useless mod
Just say you can only put on 1 rep whats left? a plate? a hardener? CPU/PG mods so you can attempt to dual tank?
We dont even have the mods for variety and what mods we have left players are tring to nerf them or even prevent us from sticking 3 on because its 'unfair'
Last time i checked i dont complain if a heavy suit has 4 plates on it, thats there choice but why cant i do what i want to do?
Intelligence is OP
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
296
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
So far, I like the new changes. I really have to plan routes and make sure I communicate to optimize survival. There is nothing better than getting four swarms and a forge fired at you and knowing that your death is a true possibility. I do like the AV ADS alliance. ATM, but the price of an ADS is still a bit high. Can we get 175,000 isk hulls? Something would be nice. Maybe 150,000 perhaps?
FAME
Click for Vehicle Support
Click for Recruitment
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1436
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's only gotten more unbalanced with the hardener nerfs.
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
And I still am of the opinion that swarms shouldn't stop hardened shield regen. They are specialized for anti-armor after all, you want them capable of hurting shields too? It's like wanting bug spray to deter sharks when you're in the ocean.
Yesterday I fell in love with a near 0 SP, militia fit, triple rep Madrugar and I even put some SP for the repairer skill to 3, now I got 345 armor/s and I can out rep the damage from any militia and standard AV. I only need to pull back for a few seconds when I'm taking more damage and I'm back at full strength.
CCP, you clearly nerfed the wrong module. The hardeners were at no fault!
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
285
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking.
Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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SteelDark Knight
Dirt Nap Squad.
270
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking.
Judge is also starting to sound like a pompous, self righteous, ass.
Seriously, you have done so may good things with your training videos and your work on balance and I respect the time you put forth to do so even if I disagree on some points because you fail on discussing and accounting for balancing issues that are harder to quantify (manuverability, etc) that are VERY apparent in high level play like PC.
But all that is a different matter. In short, please, please stop coming into threads with comments akin to "YOU will be Judged!" It just comes off as bad form. You may not give a dam but I am really saddened to see a respected and trusted member of the community start to come off as a Ass. |
pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks.
should be zero stacking in this game period. maximum, one of each mod per fit. that way, fitting something would require a brain, instead of how much hp can I stack and rep |
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1436
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking.
I think Judge just wants to be able to kill you with his ADS without you getting back to full health each time he misses a shot or needs to reload.
Well Judge, I'm sorry to say but derpships were only intended to transfer troops with light air-to-ground support. Then someone had the crazy idea of giving the pilot a controllable turret and now everyone wants them to be solo **** machines that can kill everything.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
pyramidhead 420 wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. should be zero stacking in this game period. maximum, one of each mod per fit. that way, fitting something would require a brain, instead of how much hp can I stack and rep
OK, same limit goes to dropsuits.
No more brick tanked suits with nothing but armor plates.
No more stacking precision amps and damps on scouts.
Etc.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
399
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
SteelDark Knight wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge is also starting to sound like a pompous, self righteous, ass. Seriously, you have done so may good things with your training videos and your work on balance and I respect the time you put forth to do so even if I disagree on some points because you fail on discussing and accounting for balancing issues that are harder to quantify (manuverability, etc) that are VERY apparent in high level play like PC. But all that is a different matter. In short, please, please stop coming into threads with comments akin to "YOU will be Judged!" It just comes off as bad form. You may not give a dam but I am really saddened to see a respected and trusted member of the community start to come off as a Ass.
you been under a rock kid? he's always been that way...smh. you people rode his jock in all his other videos, so now hes got you all right where he wants you, ready to vote him in cpm. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1797
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks.
I didn't say anything about advocating for their removal or changing them, yet. Just that they were on my list. They may come out as fair and balanced. They may not. The OP said himself it took 4 tanks to get him down. I have seen it myself. My fully maxed rail turret ADS cannot break the reps.
The way they are working on the battlefield, particularity when combined with a speed module, is worth investigation. So I was just giving the OP fair warning that I'm taking a look. A close look. If they come out as fair I will certainly defend them. If not, I won't.
It is worth noting that any suggested change to vehicles that bring Taka or Speaker out from under their bridge does kind of make the case that there may be something worth looking into.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4734
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks.
Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank?
Which gets interrupted by damage?
They're not easier to counter than shield tanks.
Shields are meant to have the advantage in passive regen. Instead, armour can achieve a larger advantage in this area very easily.
After the hardener nerf, repper stacking is OP in comparison with hardener stacking. When people are arguing (legitimately) that hardeners are now balanced, that means reppers are currently OP. Also, shield tanks are in a good place now. Good players can use them effectively while good AV players and other tanks can take them down reliably. Armour tanks can still be OP against infantry AV weapons, which I'd say probably isn't working as intended. |
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1438
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank? Which gets interrupted by damage? They're not easier to counter than shield tanks. Shields are meant to have the advantage in passive regen. Instead, armour can achieve a larger advantage in this area very easily. After the hardener nerf, repper stacking is OP in comparison with hardener stacking. When people are arguing (legitimately) that hardeners are now balanced, that means reppers are currently OP. Also, shield tanks are in a good place now. Good players can use them effectively while good AV players and other tanks can take them down reliably. Armour tanks can still be OP against infantry AV weapons, which I'd say probably isn't working as intended.
Shield tanks are not in a good place now. They are much worse now than before the nerf.
Now my millions of SP don't count for jack **** when a 0 SP Sica can melt through my complex hardener while I can't do anything to save myself other than hope that I can run and survive a few more shots. Before I'd be able to outlast hardeners and then pop them in a single volley, but now I can't do that when my hardener doesn't allow me to absorb all of that damage while I attempt to outlast their hardener. Even my own personal skills don't account to anything anymore because of the hardener nerf.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
9
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles. We get to areas that we can see your dropship and remove it before you get a chance to fly away or activate hardeners. The only thing at the moment that seems to live is an incubus with a heavy repairer or 2. And because we use range and AV weapons there are few instances where we get taken out.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3176
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles. We get to areas that we can see your dropship and remove it before you get a chance to fly away or activate hardeners. The only thing at the moment that seems to live is an incubus with a heavy repairer or 2. And because we use range and AV weapons there are few instances where we get taken out.
Basically you sit at the top of towers
Intelligence is OP
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4738
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Shield tanks are not in a good place now. They are much worse now than before the nerf.
Now my millions of SP don't count for jack **** when a 0 SP Sica can melt through my complex hardener while I can't do anything to save myself other than hope that I can run and survive a few more shots. Before I'd be able to outlast hardeners and then pop them in a single volley, but now I can't do that when my hardener doesn't allow me to absorb all of that damage while I attempt to outlast their hardener. Even my own personal skills don't account to anything anymore because of the hardener nerf.
I found that my Sica was able to do that to Gunnlogis easily enough before the hardener nerf.
Before 1.8, Militia tanks were OP. After the nerf, they are no more OP than they already were.
Shield tanks in general - NOT the balance between MLT and STD - are closer to working how they should be now than they were before the nerf. I haven't seen a good reason to change that opinion.
Armour tanks were no more OP than shield tanks before the hardener nerf, but they had more variety in how they could be OP because of armour reppers allowing them to get higher passive rep than the tank which is MEANT to have the better HP regen options. Now, they've fixed the problem which both types of tank shared, but not the problem which was exclusive to armour tanks. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:So far, I like the new changes. I really have to plan routes and make sure I communicate to optimize survival. There is nothing better than getting four swarms and a forge fired at you and knowing that your death is a true possibility. I do like the AV ADS alliance. ATM, but the price of an ADS is still a bit high. Can we get 175,000 isk hulls? Something would be nice. Maybe 150,000 perhaps?
Here's what I hate about what you said. After the vehicles are nerfed you want cheaper tanks. Then when they become cheaper everyone is using them and they require another nerf and then you want them cheaper and cheaper... it becomes an endless cycle.
PUT THE TANKS BACK! Remove the hardener nerf, allow tanks to run triple stacked armor reps, allow the tanks to pack a major punch against other tanks and vehicles, but RAISE THE PRICE! CCP is worried about high SP tankers running the field. Well you know what? Let them. If they have the skills to keep their tanks alive then let them do it. But I'm reminded of (what was it?) 1.6 or 1.5 with the enforcer tanks. Hardly anyone pulled them out because they COST too much to lose. Do the same here! Why is a basic tank cheaper and more effective than Assault Dropships? Yeah, the dropships can move faster and try to duck behind cover but I've seen more than 1 overconfident pilot go down.
It's very simple. You want a cheap MLT tank? Fine, remove all but one of the slots. Sica gets a high, and Soma gets a low and leave the price tag where it is. You want a Maddie that can triple stack armor reps? Fine, make the cost of the tank 350K or more, and I know people are going to complain about the cost of the tank, well you know what? It's a F***ING TANK! It should cost more than my dropsuit, than my dropship, than my LAV. Because it's going to be able to take 3-5 times the damage! But make it costly to lose. I want to see tankers get mad at losing their ONE tank that they won't pull one out for the next 5-10 matches! This is what needs to happen!
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
9
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Basically you sit at the top of towers
If this was meant to be an insult than your words mean nothing to me. If it was suppose to be impossible to sit on a tower or on a building, or on a vehicle then CCP would have designed them where you would just slide off. Why did CCP remove the ability to place equipment on top of the MCC but not on top of buildings? Yes, some spots are BS, but when there is a nice flat building top, why not sit on it. Also, we don't need to sit on top of buildings when there are nice open but hilly terrain all over the place that we can sit in. Is it boring? it can be. Is it BS? Nope, soldiers in REAL life do it all the time, I know some of those guys. You do what you need to survive and bring victory to the war-efforts/team.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3177
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Basically you sit at the top of towers If this was meant to be an insult than your words mean nothing to me. If it was suppose to be impossible to sit on a tower or on a building, or on a vehicle then CCP would have designed them where you would just slide off. Why did CCP remove the ability to place equipment on top of the MCC but not on top of buildings? Yes, some spots are BS, but when there is a nice flat building top, why not sit on it. Also, we don't need to sit on top of buildings when there are nice open but hilly terrain all over the place that we can sit in. Is it boring? it can be. Is it BS? Nope, soldiers in REAL life do it all the time, I know some of those guys. You do what you need to survive and bring victory to the war-efforts/team.
So basically i was right
Intelligence is OP
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3216
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:So far, I like the new changes. I really have to plan routes and make sure I communicate to optimize survival. There is nothing better than getting four swarms and a forge fired at you and knowing that your death is a true possibility. I do like the AV ADS alliance. ATM, but the price of an ADS is still a bit high. Can we get 175,000 isk hulls? Something would be nice. Maybe 150,000 perhaps? Here's what I hate about what you said. After the vehicles are nerfed you want cheaper tanks. Then when they become cheaper everyone is using them and they require another nerf and then you want them cheaper and cheaper... it becomes an endless cycle. PUT THE TANKS BACK! Remove the hardener nerf, allow tanks to run triple stacked armor reps, allow the tanks to pack a major punch against other tanks and vehicles, but RAISE THE PRICE! CCP is worried about high SP tankers running the field. Well you know what? Let them. If they have the skills to keep their tanks alive then let them do it. But I'm reminded of (what was it?) 1.6 or 1.5 with the enforcer tanks. Hardly anyone pulled them out because they COST too much to lose. Do the same here! Why is a basic tank cheaper and more effective than Assault Dropships? Yeah, the dropships can move faster and try to duck behind cover but I've seen more than 1 overconfident pilot go down. It's very simple. You want a cheap MLT tank? Fine, remove all but one of the slots. Sica gets a high, and Soma gets a low and leave the price tag where it is. You want a Maddie that can triple stack armor reps? Fine, make the cost of the tank 350K or more, and I know people are going to complain about the cost of the tank, well you know what? It's a F***ING TANK! It should cost more than my dropsuit, than my dropship, than my LAV. Because it's going to be able to take 3-5 times the damage! But make it costly to lose. I want to see tankers get mad at losing their ONE tank that they won't pull one out for the next 5-10 matches! This is what needs to happen!
It won't work. You can't balance on ISK. All you would do is create an elite few that could stomp with impunity.
The PC ISK farmers could still spam as many as they wanted.
As long as vehicles share the same role (infantry slaughter) as infantry, they have to be balanced 1v1 with a dropsuit. CCP is almost there now, and has but to kill stacked reppers to complete the job. Then they can reduce the price to equal the dropsuit and we will have true AV/V tiericide. |
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Skihids wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:So far, I like the new changes. I really have to plan routes and make sure I communicate to optimize survival. There is nothing better than getting four swarms and a forge fired at you and knowing that your death is a true possibility. I do like the AV ADS alliance. ATM, but the price of an ADS is still a bit high. Can we get 175,000 isk hulls? Something would be nice. Maybe 150,000 perhaps? Here's what I hate about what you said. After the vehicles are nerfed you want cheaper tanks. Then when they become cheaper everyone is using them and they require another nerf and then you want them cheaper and cheaper... it becomes an endless cycle. PUT THE TANKS BACK! Remove the hardener nerf, allow tanks to run triple stacked armor reps, allow the tanks to pack a major punch against other tanks and vehicles, but RAISE THE PRICE! CCP is worried about high SP tankers running the field. Well you know what? Let them. If they have the skills to keep their tanks alive then let them do it. But I'm reminded of (what was it?) 1.6 or 1.5 with the enforcer tanks. Hardly anyone pulled them out because they COST too much to lose. Do the same here! Why is a basic tank cheaper and more effective than Assault Dropships? Yeah, the dropships can move faster and try to duck behind cover but I've seen more than 1 overconfident pilot go down. It's very simple. You want a cheap MLT tank? Fine, remove all but one of the slots. Sica gets a high, and Soma gets a low and leave the price tag where it is. You want a Maddie that can triple stack armor reps? Fine, make the cost of the tank 350K or more, and I know people are going to complain about the cost of the tank, well you know what? It's a F***ING TANK! It should cost more than my dropsuit, than my dropship, than my LAV. Because it's going to be able to take 3-5 times the damage! But make it costly to lose. I want to see tankers get mad at losing their ONE tank that they won't pull one out for the next 5-10 matches! This is what needs to happen! It won't work. You can't balance on ISK. All you would do is create an elite few that could stomp with impunity. The PC ISK farmers could still spam as many as they wanted. As long as vehicles share the same role (infantry slaughter) as infantry, they have to be balanced 1v1 with a dropsuit. CCP is almost there now, and has but to kill stacked reppers to complete the job. Then they can reduce the price to equal the dropsuit and we will have true AV/V tiericide.
I don't see how you could ever achieve balance if one side is tiered and the other isn't.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1966
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option. Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings.
Because one person that wants railguns removed should have sole authority on how vehicles may be fit.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
im just starting going into tanking are missiles good ive seen them do well and take tanks outl like nothing but everyone says they suck so let me know what you think
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
340
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
I've started running dual tanked fits, for example, I have a gunlogi with 2 heavy armour reps, a shield hardened, a nitrous booster, a shield booster, and 3 turrets. It works fairly well, as long as I have gunners
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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nakaya indigene
0uter.Heaven
216
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think its fine. At least its not like it was before the vechile update.
The Jove espier --- my youtube --> NakaNakaNaka
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Vulpes Dolosus
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
1196
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
My opinions
ADSs
Nerfed hardeners make tanks more squishy. I used to run XT missiles to take on tanks but I'm considering switching to ATs because of the reduced cost (they still get the job done), however I feel they make dropships far too weak (especially the Incubus). Now, the best fits are stacked plates and extenders with an afterburner.
I don't know the stats for an Incubus, but a stock shield Python w/ a single hardener only gets about 2.2k shield ehp. My preferred fit (even before the nerf) has 3k passive shield and a complex AB, and even my fit with 3 XT missiles gets 2.5k and an AB. ABs are highly suggested for dodging swarms, forges, and rails, and I don't advise using only one hardener (cool down is a pain).
The rail nerf has been a tremendous blessing (though I admit I'd rather have different changes). My first game of 1.8 I fought and killed 3 ADSs with my rail through hardeners, so I know it's not a complete nerf. It has almost completely prevented redline rail sniping, but also cut into the rails role of long-range AV. What I would rather have happened is a removal of the redline, replaced with a bubble shield/bunker, but that's a different thread.
Tanks
As said before, TTK is very low for tanks and usually becomes who can sneak up and get the first rail shot off. I don't use blasters so I can't comment on those.
I did roam around in my AT missile tank this weekend to see if it's viable with the hardener nerfs. I must say I was pretty pleased with them. Ended up losing only two due to my own foolishness. The key to missiles tanks is using small rails and gunners to take out infantry and whittle down shields before the main barrage or to finish off opponents during reload. Both my gunners consistently got upwards of 10 kills and 1.5k WP (I was getting pretty good hitting infantry as well), and our three man squad managed to get 2 orbitals one game.
Armor tanks were of course decimated, and you overconfident, rep stacked Maddrugars are my favorite target. I didn't fight many Sicas/ Gunnlogies, surprisingly. Typically I got the drop on them and ganked them before they could activate their hardener. I did have one good fight against a hardened Sica, and after one volley his shields were halved, a second and he was half armor (no damage mod). Either I or my gunners would have killed him, but our squad leader dropped and orbital on him. I really want to get XT missiles, but I'm working on my infantry skills now so it will have to wait.
Overall, pretty pleased with 1.8 vehicle side.
Me in my ADS: 1,2
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4739
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. People like you wont be happy until we are all runing the same fit and no variety is allowed Not really a sandbox anymore when my sand is being chucked out of the box and im being told that i should run my vehicles this way and play with x playstyle Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option. Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings. Because one person that wants railguns removed should have sole authority on how vehicles may be fit.
I'm not saying he's right all the time, or even that he's 100% right on this point.
Just explaining that there's logic behind this particular concern.
Also, it's not like there's anyone who respects your opinion any more than Judge's. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
467
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Clarity
I know right . People should stop posting what their fits are because everyone will call out OP and when you get nerf'd , you have NO ONE to blame but yourself unless that was the intention to begin with .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
2278
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
seems the same to me of course i've never used hardeners, mobility has always been my shield. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1967
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
shadow drake35 wrote:im just starting going into tanking are missiles good ive seen them do well and take tanks outl like nothing but everyone says they suck so let me know what you think
You have to be really experienced to make missiles work.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
105
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank? Which gets interrupted by damage? They're not easier to counter than shield tanks. Shields are meant to have the advantage in passive regen. Instead, armour can achieve a larger advantage in this area very easily. After the hardener nerf, repper stacking is OP in comparison with hardener stacking. When people are arguing (legitimately) that hardeners are now balanced, that means reppers are currently OP. Also, shield tanks are in a good place now. Good players can use them effectively while good AV players and other tanks can take them down reliably. Armour tanks can still be OP against infantry AV weapons, which I'd say probably isn't working as intended. Shield tanks are not in a good place now. They are much worse now than before the nerf. Now my millions of SP don't count for jack **** when a 0 SP Sica can melt through my complex hardener while I can't do anything to save myself other than hope that I can run and survive a few more shots. Before I'd be able to outlast hardeners and then pop them in a single volley, but now I can't do that when my hardener doesn't allow me to absorb all of that damage while I attempt to outlast their hardener. Even my own personal skills don't account to anything anymore because of the hardener nerf.
it is very hard to kill repers but it is possible but not easy the game not much is op anymore it is were it should be if somthing is OP not by much
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1968
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:seems the same to me of course i've never used hardeners, mobility has always been my shield.
You probably get destroyed a lot.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:im just starting going into tanking are missiles good ive seen them do well and take tanks outl like nothing but everyone says they suck so let me know what you think You have to be really experienced to make missiles work.
ya il try the stardards fist to figure them out and which tank is best with them cause i like gunlogis but madrugars are ok
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1968
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Clarity I know right . People should stop posting what their fits are because everyone will call out OP and when you get nerf'd , you have NO ONE to blame but yourself unless that was the intention to begin with .
It's only OP if someone can't rack their brain on how to defeat it. Judge is bad, and lacks critical thinking, therefore anything that destroys him is OP, and anything he can't destroy is OP.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Subject 36
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
114
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
I haven't tried running my Gunnlogi in a while since they nerfed hardeners. I usually run with my Madrugar because it can take a beating. :D
Riding a Horse to Victory
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1799
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms, Forge or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
296
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles. We get to areas that we can see your dropship and remove it before you get a chance to fly away or activate hardeners. The only thing at the moment that seems to live is an incubus with a heavy repairer or 2. And because we use range and AV weapons there are few instances where we get taken out.
Yes, I was taken by surprise by a group similar to yours, there was also a forgee and a blaster tank hanging about. I lost my first ship because i didn't realize the magnitude of the threat you produce--in about 3 seconds too. Lesson learned, but definitely beatable. Teamwork is just needed on my end. I can't be a solo dragon all the time!
FAME
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1968
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles. We get to areas that we can see your dropship and remove it before you get a chance to fly away or activate hardeners. The only thing at the moment that seems to live is an incubus with a heavy repairer or 2. And because we use range and AV weapons there are few instances where we get taken out. Yes, I was taken by surprise by a group similar to yours, there was also a forgee and a blaster tank hanging about. I lost my first ship because i didn't realize the magnitude of the threat you produce--in about 3 seconds too. Lesson learned, but definitely beatable. Teamwork is just needed on my end. I can't be a solo dragon all the time!
Some of us tankers are good with that second rail shot.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
296
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
My python is unharmed mostly, since it can fly all it needs to do is it 301m and im safe plus it has more freedom to escape since it can fly but tanks have to stick to certain tracks so getting to a point without getting hit is alot harder to do so you can end up using your defences to early before you even get to where you are going
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles. We get to areas that we can see your dropship and remove it before you get a chance to fly away or activate hardeners. The only thing at the moment that seems to live is an incubus with a heavy repairer or 2. And because we use range and AV weapons there are few instances where we get taken out. Basically you sit at the top of towers
They shouldn't. Towers provide high POV, but limited mobility and protection. You must weigh odds, ground can be deceptively more powerful.
FAME
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
467
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:It's only gotten more unbalanced with the hardener nerfs.
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
And I still am of the opinion that swarms shouldn't stop hardened shield regen. They are specialized for anti-armor after all, you want them capable of hurting shields too? It's like wanting bug spray to deter sharks when you're in the ocean.
Yesterday I fell in love with a near 0 SP, militia fit, triple rep Madrugar and I even put some SP for the repairer skill to 3, now I got 345 armor/s and I can out rep the damage from any militia and standard AV. I only need to pull back for a few seconds when I'm taking more damage and I'm back at full strength.
CCP, you clearly nerfed the wrong module. The hardeners were at no fault!
So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ???
You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire .
STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!!
They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon .
Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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Beld Errmon
Nyain San
1497
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Posted - 2014.03.31 14:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:
I hate to say it, but recently my squad has been running with 3 commandos using advanced/prototype swarm launchers and sniper rifles.
You should change your name from brotherofhavok to LordoftheScrubs, what a pathetic style of play.... (sssh no one tell them what 3 forge gunners would do instead of scrubmandos)
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1968
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Harpyja wrote:It's only gotten more unbalanced with the hardener nerfs.
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
And I still am of the opinion that swarms shouldn't stop hardened shield regen. They are specialized for anti-armor after all, you want them capable of hurting shields too? It's like wanting bug spray to deter sharks when you're in the ocean.
Yesterday I fell in love with a near 0 SP, militia fit, triple rep Madrugar and I even put some SP for the repairer skill to 3, now I got 345 armor/s and I can out rep the damage from any militia and standard AV. I only need to pull back for a few seconds when I'm taking more damage and I'm back at full strength.
CCP, you clearly nerfed the wrong module. The hardeners were at no fault! So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ??? You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire . STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!! They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . Nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon . Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase .
So then you'll agree on a range nerf for the sniper rifle?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2636
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Swarms are not the weakest AV. Its between the forgegun and plasma cannon in regards of damage output. The plasma cannon is the weakest light AV weapon at the moment simply due to its weakness that you have to reload after every single shot. Sure on Standar lvl it does more damage then swarms (880HP with all 4 missiles) but you can fire 3 times in a row without the need to reload. The higher you progress from the tiers the more damage you get Advanced swarms deal 1100HP and proto 1320 per volley. So with all 3 volleys fired swarms deal 3960HP before damage mods and proficency. While the plasma cannon deals like 1100HP damage per shot and needs to be reloaded after that.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
467
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms, Forge or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however.
I could understand that but people need to use that inner voice .
Tanks get the bulk of the hate posting , it's been somewhat changed because of cloaks but for the last month or two tanks have been the center of discussion and what will result from that campaign has yet to be seen but it won't be pretty .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
296
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:So far, I like the new changes. I really have to plan routes and make sure I communicate to optimize survival. There is nothing better than getting four swarms and a forge fired at you and knowing that your death is a true possibility. I do like the AV ADS alliance. ATM, but the price of an ADS is still a bit high. Can we get 175,000 isk hulls? Something would be nice. Maybe 150,000 perhaps? Here's what I hate about what you said. After the vehicles are nerfed you want cheaper tanks. Then when they become cheaper everyone is using them and they require another nerf and then you want them cheaper and cheaper... it becomes an endless cycle. PUT THE TANKS BACK! Remove the hardener nerf, allow tanks to run triple stacked armor reps, allow the tanks to pack a major punch against other tanks and vehicles, but RAISE THE PRICE! CCP is worried about high SP tankers running the field. Well you know what? Let them. If they have the skills to keep their tanks alive then let them do it. But I'm reminded of (what was it?) 1.6 or 1.5 with the enforcer tanks. Hardly anyone pulled them out because they COST too much to lose. Do the same here! Why is a basic tank cheaper and more effective than Assault Dropships? Yeah, the dropships can move faster and try to duck behind cover but I've seen more than 1 overconfident pilot go down. It's very simple. You want a cheap MLT tank? Fine, remove all but one of the slots. Sica gets a high, and Soma gets a low and leave the price tag where it is. You want a Maddie that can triple stack armor reps? Fine, make the cost of the tank 350K or more, and I know people are going to complain about the cost of the tank, well you know what? It's a F***ING TANK! It should cost more than my dropsuit, than my dropship, than my LAV. Because it's going to be able to take 3-5 times the damage! But make it costly to lose. I want to see tankers get mad at losing their ONE tank that they won't pull one out for the next 5-10 matches! This is what needs to happen!
Don't pilot tanks bro. I had been talking ADS price when compared to loss ratio and isk reward.
The balance is better in FW, where all get same reward. I can backdown without losing my opportunity. Not is pubs though...
A fully fitted python could cost 300,000 to 350,000?
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
467
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Harpyja wrote:It's only gotten more unbalanced with the hardener nerfs.
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
And I still am of the opinion that swarms shouldn't stop hardened shield regen. They are specialized for anti-armor after all, you want them capable of hurting shields too? It's like wanting bug spray to deter sharks when you're in the ocean.
Yesterday I fell in love with a near 0 SP, militia fit, triple rep Madrugar and I even put some SP for the repairer skill to 3, now I got 345 armor/s and I can out rep the damage from any militia and standard AV. I only need to pull back for a few seconds when I'm taking more damage and I'm back at full strength.
CCP, you clearly nerfed the wrong module. The hardeners were at no fault! So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ??? You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire . STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!! They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . Nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon . Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase . So then you'll agree on a range nerf for the sniper rifle?
They don't shoot 600 m .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
286
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
pyramidhead 420 wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. should be zero stacking in this game period. maximum, one of each mod per fit. that way, fitting something would require a brain, instead of how much hp can I stack and rep
So no stacking, huh? Armor tanks would all consist of Armor Repper, Armor Hardener and Armor Plate then. 0 variety as those are the only modules that we can choose from.
And if we cannot do stacking then infantry doesn't deserve that right either.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1799
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Posted - 2014.03.31 15:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms, Forge or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however. I could understand that but people need to use that inner voice . Tanks get the bulk of the hate posting , it's been somewhat changed because of cloaks but for the last month or two tanks have been the center of discussion and what will result from that campaign has yet to be seen but it won't be pretty .
I should have been more careful in my choice of words. But the resulting hate did add some true value to the discussion, so I am kind of pleased it went that way, although the name calling by one person was perhaps a touch abrasive.
It seems tankers feel threatened, quite rightly with the recent changes coming out with so little notice. my simple one line about hunting down his tank to kill him, to show he is not invulnerable; was taken to mean I was after his fitting. Why did people assume that? That question leads to some interesting answers.
It does show us that CCPs changes can unsettle sections of the community and make them feel attacked. They should be defended if the attacks against them are unfounded.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2503
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Harpyja wrote:It's only gotten more unbalanced with the hardener nerfs.
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
And I still am of the opinion that swarms shouldn't stop hardened shield regen. They are specialized for anti-armor after all, you want them capable of hurting shields too? It's like wanting bug spray to deter sharks when you're in the ocean.
Yesterday I fell in love with a near 0 SP, militia fit, triple rep Madrugar and I even put some SP for the repairer skill to 3, now I got 345 armor/s and I can out rep the damage from any militia and standard AV. I only need to pull back for a few seconds when I'm taking more damage and I'm back at full strength.
CCP, you clearly nerfed the wrong module. The hardeners were at no fault! So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ??? You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire . STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!! They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . Nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon . Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase . So then you'll agree on a range nerf for the sniper rifle? They don't shoot 600 m .
Please check your facts.
OP, it seems like from my preliminary theorycrafting that where 2x rep 1x hard was the best fit general purpose fitting, 2x rep 1x 120 plate seems like it gives a better balance now.
I don't know whether that's fittable, however; I solely run Gunnlogis these days.
That fitting has been around since the week before 1.7, though, and I remember seeing NOVA STAR talking about it in 'Honey Badger' and how good it was against infantry AV and scrub pilots.
ak.0 4 LYFE
CCP GIB LANCE TURRET PLOX
LET ME MELEE PEOPLE WITH MY STEED
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1692
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yeah, I do shield missile tank. I'm out until they make tank engagments mean more again and that damn rail and mil stuff nerfed into the ground.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
467
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms, Forge or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however. I could understand that but people need to use that inner voice . Tanks get the bulk of the hate posting , it's been somewhat changed because of cloaks but for the last month or two tanks have been the center of discussion and what will result from that campaign has yet to be seen but it won't be pretty . I should have been more careful in my choice of words. But the resulting hate did add some true value to the discussion, so I am kind of pleased it went that way, although the name calling by one person was perhaps a touch abrasive. It seems tankers feel threatened, quite rightly with the recent changes coming out with so little notice. my simple one line about hunting down his tank to kill him, to show he is not invulnerable; was taken to mean I was after his fitting. Why did people assume that? That question leads to some interesting answers. It does show us that CCPs changes can unsettle sections of the community and make them feel attacked. They should be defended if the attacks against them are unfounded.
You said it Judge ... you said it .
Instant guards up . It's very unsettling and makes it hard to enjoy a role that , if one likes it ... should bring about enjoyment and not some defensive / guilt feeling .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
287
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms or ADS. I didn't say anything about advocating for their removal or changing them. They are on my list of things to keep an eye on though. They may come out as fair and balanced. They may not. The OP said himself it took 4 tanks to get him down. I have seen it myself. The way they are working on the battlefield, particularity when combined with a speed module, is worth investigation. I'm taking a look. A close look to make sure they do not get nerfed unfairly if at all. If they come out as fair I will certainly defend them. If not, I won't. It is worth noting that any suggested change to vehicles that bring Taka or Speaker out from under their bridge does kind of make the case that there may be something worth looking into.
Ok, then you have my apology. Anyway, even if he said it took 4 tanks to get him down, that means he is either lying or was able to manouver really well, at best 3 Armor Reppers will somewhat negate the DPS done by Proto Blaster.
136*7.14*0.9 (against armor) = 874 DPS, best case scenario repping is 512hp/s. That Proto Blaster would still be doing 362 DPS. Obviously during cooling down that Maddy will be almost at full health again, almost.
So let's assume that he was being hit by 4 Basic Blaster tanks. (His best case scenario)
105*7.14*0.9*4 = 2699 DPS, now let's apply 512hp/s, that still leaves 2187 DPS, less than 2 seconds for him to die when his shields are down.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
To OP
yes i know shield tank vs LOL armor tank
and yes armor vs lol drop suits
and everything vs LOL ADS !
*shield tank vs LOL armor*
*armor vs lol drop suits *
what im getting at in one hhand yes shield was to be weak vsing armor and was why ccp said Armor was a stand your ground tank ! shield was a hit and run tank .
shields work well vsing drop suits as most Av dont counter them and the turn speed of the tank its self lets it get in and out of battle EZ.
armor was the counter to this it would tank rail dmg out fight the shield tank but was handy caped vsing drop suits as most AV is a well working counter to armor and the tank it self can not turn fast at all .
keep in mind there is drop suits coming out soon for pilots !
to give you a hint how it works its not so much a buff but more of a requirement if your going to live in a tank or ride all day long in a LAV or fly a drop ship !
go,s like this with out the pilot suit your HAV gets only 50% of its HP and 75% of its PG and CPU
with the pilot suit you get the full HP and PG and CUP of that HAV.
in a Avd suit you get 25% more HP and PG and CPU
in a pro you get 50% more HP and PG CPU !
All all of that apply,s to Lav,s and Drop ships !
* everything vs LOL ADS !*
the funny thing about this is just like tanks there getting Nerfed to !
and that stacking to 100% to fire rate of gunners in a ADS LULZ !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1800
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
Watch CEO Pyrexs recent tank videos. He uses that fit, and you'll notice I'm in the squad to. I have seen it used in battle many times and it does do well. But I have also seen him die in it many times.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
|
Scheneighnay McBob
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
4584
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
My dropships are no longer getting shot down by cheap redline rails.
They're getting shot down by legitimate AV now.
I'm from the weird side of the internet
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1800
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Ok, then you have my apology.
Thank you for that. But your reaction, and others, did highlight fears of over nerfing. So It was a useful misunderstanding.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
|
BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms, Forge or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however. I could understand that but people need to use that inner voice . Tanks get the bulk of the hate posting , it's been somewhat changed because of cloaks but for the last month or two tanks have been the center of discussion and what will result from that campaign has yet to be seen but it won't be pretty . I should have been more careful in my choice of words. But the resulting hate did add some true value to the discussion, so I am kind of pleased it went that way, although the name calling by one person was perhaps a touch abrasive. It seems tankers feel threatened, quite rightly with the recent changes coming out with so little notice. my simple one line about hunting down his tank to kill him, to show he is not invulnerable; was taken to mean I was after his fitting. Why did people assume that? That question leads to some interesting answers. It does show us that CCPs changes can unsettle sections of the community and make them feel attacked. They should be defended if the attacks against them are unfounded.
you do know the next thing of the cutting block is rate of fire for ADS gunners !
you know what im talking about that stacking of ADS rate of fire when you have a pilot,s lv add,s to the gunners lv rate of fire to where you get 100% rate of fire ( 8 missiles in 2.5 sec,s )
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
287
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank? Which gets interrupted by damage? Shields are meant to have the advantage in passive regen. Instead, armour can achieve a larger advantage in this area very easily.
Let's see.
Armor HAV has active repair modules? Nope.
Armor HAV has passive repair modules? Yes.
Armor HAV has built-in repairs? Nope.
Shield HAV has active repair modules? Yes.
Shield HAV has passive repair modules? Nope.
Shield HAV has built-in repairs? Yes.
So you are telling me that since Shield HAV has both built-in repairs and active repair modules and Armor HAV has only passive repair modules, Shield tanks should excell at passive repairs? Lol.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Sev Alcatraz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
486
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
I've reverted to an old school booster fit and the tactic if never letting the enemy tank get rounds on me but yes swarms hurt alot more now :/
closed beta Vet - why am I still here....
Tankagedon
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Charlotte O'Dell
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
2261
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sounds like we're going back to Chrome when the Caldari tanks HAD to be glass cannons. I don't think Caldari tanks SHOULD be viable front line tanks. The should hit hard from far away. Their tank should be the ability to terrorize everything within 300m with an alpha damage that takes out any vehicle it can track and the best Caldari HAV pilots are those who can shoot and maneuver the best, not those who can stack 3 hardeners. Let the gunlogi be an easy kill, but do not let it lose its teeth.
Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4740
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Let's see.
Armor HAV has active repair modules? Nope.
Armor HAV has passive repair modules? Yes.
Armor HAV has built-in repairs? Nope.
Shield HAV has active repair modules? Yes.
Shield HAV has passive repair modules? Nope.
Shield HAV has built-in repairs? Yes.
So you are telling me that since Shield HAV has both built-in repairs and active repair modules and Armor HAV has only passive repair modules, Shield tanks should excell at passive repairs? Lol.
What armour tanks should (logically) be:
-High HP. (check)
-Slow but constant regen.
-Decent hardening.
What shield tanks should be:
-Lower HP. (check)
-Fast regen, but interruptible.
-Better hardening.
What we ACTUALLY have is a situation where the tank with better HP ALSO gets better self-repair options. The active module for shield regen doesn't work half the time, so that argument negates itself. Also, unlike shields, the passive regen on armour doesn't get interrupted by damage, making the higher regen rate even more of an advantage. Another possible solution would be to reverse the module situation, making armour rely entirely on active repair with no passive regen options, and having shield modules to buff passive regen without any active shield recovery option. This would also serve to make a high regen rate on armour viable, purely because it comes with those waves of opportunity CCP wanted so badly. |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
287
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Let's see.
Armor HAV has active repair modules? Nope.
Armor HAV has passive repair modules? Yes.
Armor HAV has built-in repairs? Nope.
Shield HAV has active repair modules? Yes.
Shield HAV has passive repair modules? Nope.
Shield HAV has built-in repairs? Yes.
So you are telling me that since Shield HAV has both built-in repairs and active repair modules and Armor HAV has only passive repair modules, Shield tanks should excell at passive repairs? Lol. What armour tanks should (logically) be: -High HP. (check) -Slow but constant regen. -Decent hardening. What shield tanks should be: -Lower HP. (check) -Fast regen, but interruptible. -Better hardening. What we ACTUALLY have is a situation where the tank with better HP ALSO gets better self-repair options. The active module for shield regen doesn't work half the time, so that argument negates itself. Also, unlike shields, the passive regen on armour doesn't get interrupted by damage, making the higher regen rate even more of an advantage. Another possible solution would be to reverse the module situation, making armour rely entirely on active repair with no passive regen options, and having shield modules to buff passive regen without any active shield recovery option. This would also serve to make a high regen rate on armour viable, purely because it comes with those waves of opportunity CCP wanted so badly.
I'm tired of arguing about the same stuff over and over again, just gimme back my 1.6 AV and Vehicles. Like naow. CCP, right, fcking, naow!
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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poison Diego
NECROM0NGERS
Caps and Mercs
374
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank? Which gets interrupted by damage? They're not easier to counter than shield tanks. .
Ok, which can a missle tank kill, a repping tank or a hardned shield tank? which tank can a rail tank kill "easier"?
2 assault forges take down a repping tank in the second volley.
Its just a matter of what weapon works on certain type of tank fit (exep a rail destroys everything)
Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
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|
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Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
409
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Posted - 2014.03.31 16:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms or ADS. I didn't say anything about advocating for their removal or changing them. They are on my list of things to keep an eye on though. They may come out as fair and balanced. They may not. The OP said himself it took 4 tanks to get him down. I have seen it myself. The way they are working on the battlefield, particularity when combined with a speed module, is worth investigation. I'm taking a look. A close look to make sure they do not get nerfed unfairly if at all. If they come out as fair I will certainly defend them. If not, I won't. It is worth noting that any suggested change to vehicles that bring Taka or Speaker out from under their bridge does kind of make the case that there may be something worth looking into.
Dude, it's pretty clear that your only agenda with everything you say is to make your derpship invincible and more effective at killing things.
Your derpship = medium flying vehicle.
HAV = HEAVY ground vehicle.
You shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle in an entirely different weightclass. Especially not since you can fly directly above it and it has no ******* chance of shooting back at you. Meaning: you can engage a target that can't engage you back.
Remember how you used to complain about redline railtanks, huh hypocrite? |
BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. Which has faster regen? A repper-stacked armour tank, or a shield tank? Which gets interrupted by damage? Shields are meant to have the advantage in passive regen. Instead, armour can achieve a larger advantage in this area very easily. Let's see. Armor HAV has active repair modules? Nope. Armor HAV has passive repair modules? Yes. Armor HAV has built-in repairs? Nope. Shield HAV has active repair modules? Yes. Shield HAV has passive repair modules? Nope. Shield HAV has built-in repairs? Yes. So you are telling me that since Shield HAV has both built-in repairs and active repair modules and Armor HAV has only passive repair modules, Shield tanks should excell at passive repairs? Lol.
here,s the said thing that's true !
in Privet dust 514 testing shield tanks DID !
that is no BS DID and did so at 550+ sec and could fit a booster !
he,s the sad part armor is not about reping its a bout hi end DEF with hardeners ! the rep that they get is small its the hardeners that make them them stop the 1 hit kills that shields that lack do to low resists .
on shields yes that should out rep armor tanks but armor tanks should have alot more resists then shields .
this is why CCP should Just go back to how thing are in eve online !
why i think that Tanking Damage Types Heat dmg EPM dmg EXP dmg and KINT dmg should be the same way in dust as eve online !
there just no way around it !
making tanking to simple in game has by far been the biggest thing Holding this game back !
let just do tanking how its done in Eve online !
this way drop ships tanks lav,s dont have to run only 1 or 2 fits because that's all that works
if you open up more ways to tank you end up with more fits and happier players not just tankers and drop ships but AV to
the new players not crying over the games to hard to tank its that the only way to tank or fit and do anything is 6 months away in SP !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
468
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:[quote=Garrett Blacknova][quote=MarasdF Loron]
I'm tired of arguing about the same stuff over and over again, just gimme back my 1.6 AV and Vehicles. Like naow. CCP, right, fcking, naow!
1.6 had more of a variety but the tanks were garbage against the swarms .
Now add in remote explosives and the fact that people are using proxies as well , that is a bad combination .
I miss the slot layout , missile ... rail gun ... blasters turrets and mods but not the frailness of those tanks .
I kind of like what MarasdF just wrote though about the comparisons .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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poison Diego
NECROM0NGERS
Caps and Mercs
375
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Like I said the other day, shield tanks are pretty much where they should be. Armour tanks with reppers are OP, because armour reppers needed a nerf MORE than hardeners did, and never got one.
STOP FCKING WHINIG! nobody complained about them before but now that one sorry ass nerd couldnt kill it with a MLT swarm luncher you all go nuts?!
Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
468
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:[quote=MarasdF Loron][quote=Garrett Blacknova][quote=MarasdF Loron][quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]
there just no way around it !
making tanking to simple in game has by far been the biggest thing Holding this game back !
this way drop ships tanks lav,s dont have to run only 1 or 2 fits because that's all that works
if you open up more ways to tank you end up with more fits and happier players not just tankers and drop ships but AV to
the new players not crying over the games to hard to tank its that the only way to tank or fit and do anything is 6 months away in SP !
This ^^^^ ... couldn't agree with these statements anymore than to have said them myself but you beat me to it FURRY .
Agreed .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
|
BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Judge, 90% of the time I agree with what you say and whatever points you make, but please.. please.. Armor Repper stacking has SO many hard counters. It's the most balanced fit there's ever been for tanks. I actually meant I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms or ADS. I didn't say anything about advocating for their removal or changing them. They are on my list of things to keep an eye on though. They may come out as fair and balanced. They may not. The OP said himself it took 4 tanks to get him down. I have seen it myself. The way they are working on the battlefield, particularity when combined with a speed module, is worth investigation. I'm taking a look. A close look to make sure they do not get nerfed unfairly if at all. If they come out as fair I will certainly defend them. If not, I won't. It is worth noting that any suggested change to vehicles that bring Taka or Speaker out from under their bridge does kind of make the case that there may be something worth looking into. Dude, it's pretty clear that your only agenda with everything you say is to make your derpship invincible and more effective at killing things. Your derpship = medium flying vehicle. HAV = HEAVY ground vehicle. You shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle in an entirely different weightclass. Especially not since you can fly directly above it and it has no ******* chance of shooting back at you. Meaning: you can engage a target that can't engage you back. Remember how you used to complain about redline railtanks, huh hypocrite?
why did you think he cryed till CCP nerfed rail range to 300
300 for rail gun is 1 shot be for a ADS is on top of you .
ADS can take 2 hits
why?
redline rails
why redline rails?
battle zones in maps are to small !
its why you see redline rails if i can see into the other red line and hit it why should i drive a 500.000 isk tank any closer if the other tanks and see and hit me?
if i was them i would shoot asap !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star.
EoN.
596
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
I'm still OP. ADS is fine though.
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
702
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:27:00 -
[78] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:[quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]
there just no way around it !
making tanking to simple in game has by far been the biggest thing Holding this game back !
this way drop ships tanks lav,s dont have to run only 1 or 2 fits because that's all that works
if you open up more ways to tank you end up with more fits and happier players not just tankers and drop ships but AV to
the new players not crying over the games to hard to tank its that the only way to tank or fit and do anything is 6 months away in SP ! This ^^^^ ... couldn't agree with these statements anymore than to have said them myself but you beat me to it FURRY . Agreed .
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tanking
and
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damage_types#Damage_Types
IF we just do this new players even ones as old as 1 week can skill in to the base stuff and fit a tank or a drop ship that can tank 1 or 2 kinds of dmg but will be weak vsing the other 2 and they dont need pro mods to be good but they wont be as good as pro lv but could at lest DO stuff in game in game !
this means there all ways a way for someone to counter you and all ways other fits then just go shield with 3 hardeners or go armor with speed mod and reps what ever it is Must be all Pro mods !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Basically you sit at the top of towers If this was meant to be an insult than your words mean nothing to me. If it was suppose to be impossible to sit on a tower or on a building, or on a vehicle then CCP would have designed them where you would just slide off. Why did CCP remove the ability to place equipment on top of the MCC but not on top of buildings? Yes, some spots are BS, but when there is a nice flat building top, why not sit on it. Also, we don't need to sit on top of buildings when there are nice open but hilly terrain all over the place that we can sit in. Is it boring? it can be. Is it BS? Nope, soldiers in REAL life do it all the time, I know some of those guys. You do what you need to survive and bring victory to the war-efforts/team. So basically i was right
So basically you want to be an A**HOLE and need to go back to COD or the Civil War era's and line up in a line of redcoats or bluecoats and take turns shooting at each other. I agree that it's annoying to be on the receiving end sometimes but a decent player can do any number of options to remove a rooftop sniper/AV.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
288
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:I'm still OP. ADS is fine though.
Please kindly get out of here, because there's hardly any counters against you (even on the forums). 
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
It won't work. You can't balance on ISK. All you would do is create an elite few that could stomp with impunity.
The PC ISK farmers could still spam as many as they wanted.
As long as vehicles share the same role (infantry slaughter) as infantry, they have to be balanced 1v1 with a dropsuit. CCP is almost there now, and has but to kill stacked reppers to complete the job. Then they can reduce the price to equal the dropsuit and we will have true AV/V tiericide.
(GASP) WHAT?!!!??? WHAT?!
1v1 with infantry? Then what's the point of tanks? Lower the cost to dropsuit cost? Then everyone would go tanks. Let's face it, tanks are large targets that move faster than most infantry. They have room for 3 gunners and fill specific roles. Do I agree that tanks are suppose to be good against infantry? No, not the large turrets anyway. Should the large turrets be only good against vehicles? Probably not, no matter what a large rail shot should take out any standing infantry. Should CCP make it harder for them to hit? Sure, but you cannot say that tanks should be equal to usefulness and cost of infantry. If that were the case then CCP should have just yanked all vehicles when they removed logi LAVS, logi dropships and enforcer HAVs.
true tiericide? are you kidding?
As far as the balance isk issue, yes, there will always be elites that have the isk to spend but you know what, if they keep wasting their tanks that cost a mil isk or more, then every match I will sit there and take it from them. As far as those with tons of PC districts, CCP has gone a long way of knocking them down a peg or two with the removal of district locking. Now, corps like Nyain San have lost more than half of their districts and will probably continue to do so until their fairly small corp gets to a reasonable size that they can defend and hold. They will still of PC districts though until a stronger corp comes along and if you hate that any corp besides your own has a district than get over it, beef up your corp, take a district or just plain go to a different corp that already has a district.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
468
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:[quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]
there just no way around it !
making tanking to simple in game has by far been the biggest thing Holding this game back !
this way drop ships tanks lav,s dont have to run only 1 or 2 fits because that's all that works
if you open up more ways to tank you end up with more fits and happier players not just tankers and drop ships but AV to
the new players not crying over the games to hard to tank its that the only way to tank or fit and do anything is 6 months away in SP ! This ^^^^ ... couldn't agree with these statements anymore than to have said them myself but you beat me to it FURRY . Agreed . https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tankingand https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damage_types#Damage_TypesIF we just do this new players even ones as old as 1 week can skill in to the base stuff and fit a tank or a drop ship that can tank 1 or 2 kinds of dmg but will be weak vsing the other 2 and they dont need pro mods to be good but they wont be as good as pro lv but could at lest DO stuff in game in game ! this means there all ways a way for someone to counter you and all ways other fits then just go shield with 3 hardeners or go armor with speed mod and reps what ever it is Must be all Pro mods !
I am all about variety and chances to make anything better .
Hopefully CCP will see this post and stop reading one's like Sir Dukey's writing about trying to get more HAV nerfs and we will be alright . We need more constructive feedback for them to consider positive changes and not just killing with nerf bats .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ???
You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire .
STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!!
They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . Nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon .
Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase .
I agree with the stacking damage mods penalty, honestly I don't understand why they don't go the EVE route and just had extra PG and CPU requirements of weapons with every mod.
The 600m I agree with as well. A Thale, the most powerful sniper rifle in the game, a salvage only officer class weapon can't even push that far, and while i know its a tank turret vs. a handheld sniper rifle its just too much. What I don't agree with though is why a 50% reduction? Couldn't they have just made it so that it's not 100% accurate? Why is it that there isn't a drop-off? Why isn't there a spread to the shots? Why do that rails fire exactly where they're pointed?
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
646
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:49:00 -
[84] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:How are these new changes working out for you?
Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now.
But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least.
And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield.
Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound.
While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build.
Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep
492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4)
This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you!
I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place.
I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died.
It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me!
actually swarms are doing about 100 more damage per volley now. HEre are the numbers versus your double hardened shield tank pre1.8/(1.8)
std 275(155)
adv 344(193)
pro 413(232)
Before they were lol. Now only the proto present any type of threat, and they would have to land 8 volleys (that means standing on a nano hive and assuming you have the base shield HP) in order just to chew through your shields (remember you will recharge for at least 1 sec between every reload).
If you fit a shield extender, this means 11 volleys, and that you will have been more or less standing still for over 30 seconds.
I think you are still pretty safe against swarms as long as you don't just sit there.
I agree with everything you said about repper tanks.
Due to the damage mod and proficiency nerfs, armor repper tanks are actually a good bit more effective than before.
Fixing swarms
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1616
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
It depends on my fits... my triple hardend ion cannon/particle cannon/XTmissile fits still kick ass and absorb **** loads incoming AV be it swarms forges and pic's I still haven't lost one of my triple hardend Gunnlogis so far.
but my norm 2 harder dammage mod/shield booster/ extender can't take as much AV as they did before the hot fix and i have acctually lost a few to av.
Tank on tank combat feels much the same as it still really comes down to who fires first or who's hardners/boosters are expended first.
Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012.
I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
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Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1471
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
tbh i hardly even notcied the difference vs av and as far as tank v tank goes..ima armor tank shield tanks seem easier to kill now
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
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Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1471
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
So what your saying is that they should have nerf'd the repairers ???
You people will never learn and when your vehicles are useless you will want a refund but your leading the charge to kill your own role . You vehicle users need to stop talking so much because there are enough in the community who would love to make what we do useless and you just give them fuel for their fire .
STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!!
They should have increased the stacking penalty for stacking damage mods and nothing else . That's all that needed to be changed . The hardener nerf was alright but that doesn't stop stacking damage mods and if anything increases that fact . Nerfing the rail gun was needed , 600 m is just too much coverage for any weapon .
Increase penalty for stacking damage mods and decrease the stacked damage increase .
I agree with the stacking damage mods penalty, honestly I don't understand why they don't go the EVE route and just had extra PG and CPU requirements of weapons with every mod. The 600m I agree with as well. A Thale, the most powerful sniper rifle in the game, a salvage only officer class weapon can't even push that far, and while i know its a tank turret vs. a handheld sniper rifle its just too much. What I don't agree with though is why a 50% reduction? Couldn't they have just made it so that it's not 100% accurate? Why is it that there isn't a drop-off? Why isn't there a spread to the shots? Why do that rails fire exactly where they're pointed?
they're actually is bullet arc its slight but its there
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:
The 600m I agree with as well. A Thale, the most powerful sniper rifle in the game, a salvage only officer class weapon can't even push that far, and while i know its a tank turret vs. a handheld sniper rifle its just too much. What I don't agree with though is why a 50% reduction? Couldn't they have just made it so that it's not 100% accurate? Why is it that there isn't a drop-off? Why isn't there a spread to the shots? Why do that rails fire exactly where they're pointed?
they're actually is bullet arc its slight but its there
Maybe, but it's not enough.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
Due to the damage mod and proficiency nerfs, armor repper tanks are actually a good bit more effective than before.
So, let's see...
PLC Prof = Shield (Next to useless weapon as AV anyway)
Forge Prof = Armor
Swarm Prof = Armor
Sooo... how did it affect armor tanks?
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Ld Collins
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:08:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:How are these new changes working out for you?
Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now.
But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least.
And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield.
Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound.
While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build.
Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep
492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4)
This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you!
I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place.
I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died.
It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me!
I could easily rip that fit to pieces with a blaster gunnlogi with 2 small missile turrets and a damage mod. Or a 3x damage mod missile gunnlogi or railgun. So far the only changes that this hotfix has brought is that railgun tanks dont railgun snipe anymore. Unless they have a damage mod their chances of killing me are 60/40. Low lvl tankers are easy prey your fit as you have stated isgis great against av and could save you from a python I feel that your fit is completely fair and justified. Armor reps are working as intended. Armor reps should be your speciality considering a maddy is a gallente vehicle and that there are other factors in theggae that you can't avoid. Other tanks ads lavs swarms grenades foreguns explosives plasma cannons and QQers on the forums. As for gunnlogies being weak against railguns from my experience everything is weak agsinst railguns. |
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Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1471
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Posted - 2014.03.31 17:13:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ld Collins wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:How are these new changes working out for you?
Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now.
But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least.
And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield.
Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound.
While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build.
Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep
492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4)
This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you!
I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place.
I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died.
It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me!
I could easily rip that fit to pieces with a blaster gunnlogi with 2 small missile turrets and a damage mod. Or a 3x damage mod missile gunnlogi or railgun. So far the only changes that this hotfix has brought is that railgun tanks dont railgun snipe anymore. Unless they have a damage mod their chances of killing me are 60/40. Low lvl tankers are easy prey your fit as you have stated isgis great against av and could save you from a python I feel that your fit is completely fair and justified. Armor reps are working as intended. Armor reps should be your speciality considering a maddy is a gallente vehicle and that there are other factors in theggae that you can't avoid. Other tanks ads lavs swarms grenades foreguns explosives plasma cannons and QQers on the forums. As for gunnlogies being weak against railguns from my experience everything is weak agsinst railguns.
well tech cept for scout scout >railgun
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
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WUT ANG
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
155
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works.
4KD Minmatar Assault
Weapon sp refund please
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works.
what does upgrading your HAV skill do
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
702
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works.
that's
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:25:00 -
[95] - Quote
shadow drake35 wrote:WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do
Consume SP.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP.
thats what i quess
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
702
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3
that but we dont have that yet !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1110
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Took on two Maddy with a friend, he dropped two shields that got popped quick. Kill feed said PA on one Maddy. Then a PC version popped me, the ~8K damage in three shots said damage modules. We lost 5 between us, they lost 4. It took the majority of a match with calling in tanks, waiting for hardeners to recover and each side trying to sucker the other into the open. It was a good fight and I suspect they enjoyed much like we did. It was a rare match since the hot fix.
To me, there are less tanks over all. I lost several tanker squad mates to 1.7, I have lost a few more although only one said it was directly because of the hot fix Nerf Hammer to hardeners. His analysis of the math said a damage mod tank will win more often than not as the opposite side has to run a hardener all the time to not loose automatically to it. He lost a tank to an OB and wondered why. I told him about the hardener Nerf and his was response was, "I am done with this game. Let me know when they drop the next patch. Then I'll come and check it out". He logged out and I doubt if I will see him in game again.
I have been having to pull back to save a PRO turret. ADV as well often. This is how they want us to play. Shoot, get hit, run home until the hardeners recover and to get ammunition. It is an odd decision as the game is decidedly less fun.
Oh well, I have other games to play and most of them have decent sniper scopes. Some even have proper tanks. 
And so it goes.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:54:00 -
[99] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 that but we dont have that yet !
Most likely we will never have that. Infantry would make death threats to CCP if they ever even asked how the community would feel about those.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
702
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:57:00 -
[100] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:WUT ANG wrote:So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard.
Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto
The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 that but we dont have that yet ! Most likely we will never have that. Infantry would make death threats to CCP if they ever even asked how the community would feel about those.
Infantry are getting the same thing .
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Ld Collins
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
125
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Posted - 2014.03.31 17:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6309
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Actually, Swarm Launchers are not the easiest to obtain.
Their are MLT variants of both the Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun, and the Swarm Launcher requires Light Weaponry IV, making it harder to obtain than the Plasma Cannon.
Why does everyone keep trying to downplay the Swarm Launcher?
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
602
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Actually, Swarm Launchers are not the easiest to obtain.
Their are MLT variants of both the Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun, and the Swarm Launcher requires Light Weaponry IV, making it harder to obtain than the Plasma Cannon.
Why does everyone keep trying to downplay the Swarm Launcher?
Because I tanked during the days when swarms would 3 volley my fit all STD tank worth 500K with both hardeners running from a tower across the map on Line Harvest
Apart from that a good 70% of swarm users are complete whiners that are unable to do anything without being force fed. I have successfully kill many tanks with swarms because I use something this community apparently lacks. My brain.
 Shocker I know. Swarms aren't in the best place right now, however they still work if you're a halfway decent player and position yourself in a smart place.
And now, to answer the OP. I like where tanks are now, there's a lot less redline cunts and the fights tend to be a lot better. Now both tanks are viable for tank v. tank fights if played as intended however the hardener nerf has made a lot my Gunnlogi pilots switch back to damage mods.
Mmmm Scout ak.0
Projects: TDBS | SDETool
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6312
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:20:00 -
[104] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
Apart from that a good 70% of swarm users are complete whiners that are unable to do anything without being force fed.
[citation needed]
The same could be said about vehicle users. Though the margin wouldn't be 70%. It'd be 99%
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
I have successfully kill many tanks with swarms because I use something this community apparently lacks. My brain.
Yeah, and I had a build that made it theoretically impossible to solo my HAV with anything other than another vehicle, or a Wyrikomi Breach Forge Gun.
I made a total of 250m of off idiot tankers saying that they could solo my HAV with a Swarm Launcher. Care to add to that pot?
THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Shocker I know. Swarms aren't in the best place right now, however they still work if you're a halfway decent player and position yourself in a smart place.
And the same could be said about 1.6 HAVs, except more. If you were actually good with vehicles, it wasn't that hard to survive AV weapons.
Then again, I said "good". And your a pilot.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
603
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
The same could be said about vehicle users. Though the margin wouldn't be 70%. It'd be 99%
Depends on what you consider a tanker, anyone who picked it up before 1.6 don't particularly apply in my book.
Atiim wrote:
Yeah, and I had a build that made it theoretically impossible to solo my HAV with anything other than another vehicle, or a Wyrikomi Breach Forge Gun.
Woohoo, that build is good against one thing!
Atiim wrote:
I made a total of 250m of off idiot tankers saying that they could solo my HAV with a Swarm Launcher. Care to add to that pot?
I have used swarms effectively against numerous tanks. Then again, I've done the same with plasma cannons. It's the user not the weapon.
Atiim wrote:
And the same could be said about 1.6 HAVs, except more. If you were actually good with vehicles, it wasn't that hard to survive AV weapons.
Then again, I said "good". And your a pilot.
If you liked hiding in the redline or had a dedicated logilav yeah.
I started tanking in 1.3 on a vehicle character I made to test logi lavs, after I maxed out both the Limbus and Charybdis along with my resists and remote repper and booster skills I went into tanks. They were in a very bad place at the time as it was almost impossible to tank without outside funds. Anyone who was profiting was running ambush or were very skilled. I am infantry about 90% of my time playing Dust and I still argue swarmers are ********. The only time I see swarms are people in "Anti-armor" fits because the people who have put AV into them gave up within the first day because it actually took more skill than hiding on a tower 400 meters from what they were shooting at.
I'm not saying that this is how you are, I'm generalizing about the majority of the swarm users. They lost their easy mode and now they just cry because a tank touched them wrong without even trying.
Now, with that said, I want balance for vehicles but most people have it wrong. You can't balance with price (high or low) and you can't balance with massive changes. It requires small tweaking which CCP can't seem to do, they need to add 25 meters for a week to swarms for an example, gather some data and don't listen to the delusional community on the forums. They need to get in game with people instead.
Mmmm Scout ak.0
Projects: TDBS | SDETool
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BAD FURRY
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
706
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:09:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ld Collins wrote:Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill.
SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Ld Collins
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
126
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:13:00 -
[107] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Ld Collins wrote:Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead !
By that logic armor tanks should be dead when you run out of shields but wait armor hardener ftw |
bamboo x
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
560
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:13:00 -
[108] - Quote
You have convinced me to skill into damage mods on my tank character.
I wouldn't do it before because hardeners were so OP.
What would you recommend on a full proto Gunnlogi? I'm thinking an extender, hardener, and damage mod?
B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
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Derrith Erador
Arrogance.
1430
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:15:00 -
[109] - Quote
As an ADS pilot who still thinks he is better than everyone, can honestly say that the war between AV and vehicles seems fairly balanced, aside from Av nades of course. It takes normally two or three swarms/forges to take me down, and only if they have any skill or coordination, even then they still fail sometimes  as it should be. Vehicles aren't invincible anymore, but they're not underpowered.
The lone monk who traverses the treacherous worlds of New Eden in search of panty dropper songs.
Amarrican to the core.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
706
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:20:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ld Collins wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:Ld Collins wrote:Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead ! By that logic armor tanks should be dead when you run out of shields but wait armor hardener ftw
ARMOR !!! dead when it runs out of ARMOR !!
omg rely or you trying to troll ?
shields tanks main tanking is with its Shields !
armors tanks main tanking is with ARMOR !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
737
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
ahhh i do enjoy my 512.5 reps. ff i could fit 3 complex heavy reps it would be at 543.75 hps reps.. with rep skill maxed. but thats impossible for me currently id most likely need to use a std blaster with blaster turret fit optimization 5 to even hope to fit it.
that said it in no way is op. considering how many times ive lost the fit to just about everything. hardener nerf. i guess it solves the problem where tanks with a hardener could survive a direct orbital strike.
or most of it any ways.
but back to the rep maddy. all u can really fit is a blaster turret. anything different and your over your cpu limit(possibly pg).
with a mlt blaster total cost of fit is around 215k isk..
but that doesnt really matter..
the fit it self CANNOT sustain large alpha strikes or anything that can out dps the reps which is basically everything including the lower level swarms.
so what kills it is sustained fire.
so its a passively tanked fit. it can survive multiple small attacks over a period of time but anything big essentially kills it. hardener tanks weaknesses should have been the multiple attacks over time thing. but perma hardened vehicles pretty much were untouchable save by a glass cannon rail.
i have put my 512.5 hps rep tank through its course. against a blaster turret the blaster can and does have the potential to kill me. it out dps the reps by a pretty good amount. but due to the blaster turrets over heat the gunner has to fire in bursts or risk over heating. this is what my reps take advantage of. they can get me down to as low as 1700 armor before having to wait to cool down the turret. in which i will rep to full during the time it takes. now if anything else attacks me during that periord chances are i will not recover in time and will lose the tank.
now up against large missile turret. makes me wish i was fighting a rail maddy. missiles will just annihilate the fit in general. doesnt even take the full 12 missiles.
with rails its a bit more tricky to get around them. cant actually win unless i take advantage of their slow turret speed though shield tanks would be alot harder to out perform in terms of mobility.
overall its got its ups and downs. and since most individual av or large blasters is incapable to sustain the damage for the ttk it takes to kill me. they will need to up the encounter to alpha strikes. which i really have to avoid. though when i first brain stormed the fit i was thinking it was going to be a god fit. but i was clearly dead wrong about that. |
Ld Collins
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
126
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:46:00 -
[112] - Quote
Are you trolling or am I the only one who knows shield boosters are broken and shield tanking a gunnlogi is a failure waiting to happen. Shields dissipate rapidly and adding shield extension makes it even worse so you have 2 options damage mods or hardeners which ccp just nerfed from 60% to 40%. So you go glassconnon or dual hardener. Railgun tanks ruled the land in 1.7 because you didnt have to go infield. In 1.8 you have to get out there in fight. Lets say you do 5300 shields 2500 armor gunnlogi and you run into a maddy with a ion cannon dual hardners and an armor rep. The maddy has 4k base armor 1200 sheild 5-6k with both mods on and armor rep. Who wins .... |
Rusty Shallows
1336
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:snip
STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!!
snip
Yes stop posting fits or even discussing. That way the Devs can wait until a certain threshold of generic complaints and QQ is reached. Then they can blanket nerf every aspect of Vehicles in a tragic repeat of Uprising 1.0. CCP may have a history of missing important discussions (like this one) but they have been dead on target in responding to sustained criticism.
Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option.
Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings.
It isn't a viable fit though. It is great versus infantry, but horrible versus tanks. It can't take any sort of high alpha, and in any sort of competitive environment, an IAFG once it works right will rip it to shreds. The only reason why it seems OP is because people are incapable of altering their strategy. If you see a full rep Maddy, you call in a Sica and pop it in 20 seconds, problem solved. There is a reason why MLT tanks are that strong. It is to prevent high SP tankers from dominating. Use the tools CCP gave you.
Ahh, that was kinda my point. It's a cheap fit, that's not effective against high alpha AV. Played right, it can murder some tanks. Missiles will murder it NP, but they do that to maddies anyways. Rails can drop them, but you certainly underestimate the 500hp/s, in the hands of a good driver. I mentioned It nearly stood up to rail fire from a MLT rail, + 2 blaster right? It can be a chore to take the sucker down. Otherwise, it's the duel reps, with a single hardener. The point being it doesn't address the issue of reps, with madrudgers.
Now, I don't enjoy the changes, because I thought they are a step away from the original plan. But I still go out there, after a few days of butt hurt, and murder tanks. It's not like I'm going out there losing tanks left and right all of a sudden. I average pretty much the same as before, though swarms are a very big issue now. I've been forced to change tactics, and play with a bit more skill than before.
Not a bad thing, but I think hardener durations were the biggest issue. Plus the hardener stacking penalty would be nice. And a change to swarms so that the little damage they did to a gunnlogi, actually stopped regen. And bump up their damage slightly.
It the drastic changes they make that upsets me, really. Always over the top with the nerfs.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:10:00 -
[115] - Quote
And holy hell, what happened to my thread.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:24:00 -
[116] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Clarity and a bit more clarity. EDIT : I actually meant by this I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however. Keep that In mind as you read on.
If I do see you, we need to find a nice quiet spot. I want to see how proto swarms fair with some maneuvering. Your ADS though I would imagine could take it out fairly easy. Those things are beastly fella.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:
Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi.
This
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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alten hilt
DUST University
Ivy League
126
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:50:00 -
[118] - Quote
If you guys think HAV's and ADS's have it tough, try being a dedicated LAVer!
I have an alt that only runs LAV's with a small rail gun. It's a fun way to skirmish, but dang did the hardener nerf hurt! Now, an ADV swarm + damage mod, and any railgun (without damage mods) can 2-shot me off the field no matter how I fit the LAV. Used to be able to survive 3 shots with a hardener.
And swarms are a little OP against LAV's at the moment. Mostly because once a lock on is achieved there is almost nothing I can do to evade those suckers. Can't outrun them ( they will fly forever until they hit something), they can reverse direction instantly, and navigate around corners like crazy. If I'm lucky, I can kill the swarmer before he gets that second shot off, but due to the fact that the swarm explosion animation drops my frame rate to 0, this is unlikely.
Plus, an HAV with a overdrive can keep up with my LAV
Plus CCP fills my LAV's fuel tank with high explosives. If a HAV so much as bumps me I blow up, even friendly HAV's.
Plus rail gun installations have near perfect tracking and aim. Once one locks on I'm toast unless there is a corner I can turn before that second shot hits.
Plus the usual railgun glitches; like poor hit detection; invisible occlusion over the front of the LAV, railings, walls, hills, etc; firing blanks; and runaway firing without animation or sound.
Plus CCP just cut my range down by 1/3, only giving me a 50 meter window to avoid swarm lock on in a best case scenario. In reality, the small railgun struggles to hit anything past 125m.
Plus, despite the description of the small railgun being best for installations and vehicles, it suffers a 23% - 44% damage profile reduction to all vehicles and installations? WTF?
AND THE MOTHER OF ALL PROBLEMS for LAVer's: I can't lock my LAV and prevent death by blueberry. Seriously, I die more from my own team than I do from the enemy. If I catch a blueberry even so much as looking at my ride, I'm out of there.
Seriously, can't you see that I'm sniping the enemy and covering your approach? Don't you see that I'm killing enemies at a nice safe distance? Don't you see me covering the hack of your squad mate? Or that I'm helping a friendly HAV kill an enemy HAV? Or that I'm defending against an enemy rush? NOPE! Blueberry just gets in the drivers seat and drives me into the redzone, or into a crowd of enemy AV, or infantry, or an enemy HAV, or a friendly HAV, or tries to low speed murder taxi, or gets my LAV stuck on the terrain. You think I'm going to just abandon my LAV? it's a 170,000 ISK LAV!! I'm going down with this baby.
Anyway, what were you saying about HAV's and ADS's being UP? |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
139
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:58:00 -
[119] - Quote
Vehicle vs vehicle should have the same TTK-ish as Infantry vs Infantry. AV vs Vehicles is where it should be IMO. I actually think it's 100% balanced now. They shouldn't ef with it anymore. |
SteelDark Knight
Dirt Nap Squad.
278
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Posted - 2014.03.31 22:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
I owe Judge a apology for my earlier post. I took his original comments that he has since clarified to mean something different than he intended. I incorrectly saw it as a disturbing trend of becoming intolerant of other opinions (not the trolls).
While I may not agree on every point made I understand and appreciate the great amount of work and effort Judge puts forth. I believe he does this for the benefit of all and I know that CCP takes his opinion in to consideration and for that reason I hope he is always tolerant of others views as long as they are expressed honestly (i.e not trolling) and respectfully.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1117
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Posted - 2014.04.01 03:28:00 -
[121] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3
that but we dont have that yet ! Thanks for pointing that out. I forget that many never saw the complete plan for the future, now the past and possibly not even a possibility.
We still have a Market slot under Drop Suits -> Light -> Pilots but absolutely no time frame for its possible inclusion. I created a character just to be a pilot, finally gave up on it arriving though.
And so it goes.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
293
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Posted - 2014.04.01 04:12:00 -
[122] - Quote
bamboo x wrote:You have convinced me to skill into damage mods on my tank character.
I wouldn't do it before because hardeners were so OP.
What would you recommend on a full proto Gunnlogi? I'm thinking an extender, hardener, and damage mod?
For pubs: dmg mod, dmg mod, dmg mod or dmg mod, dmg mod, nitrous. With our without hardener nerf that wrecks almost all tanks.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
141
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Posted - 2014.04.01 04:52:00 -
[123] - Quote
I think they need to release the higher tiers or else vehicle vs. av will stay in buff nerf limbo. I think for mlt and std tanks/dropships they are working as intended. The big issue is that adv and proto hulls still aren't out yet.
If you compare mlt tank vs. std tank with mlt suit vs. std suit it's seemingly where it should be now. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6332
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Posted - 2014.04.01 11:14:00 -
[124] - Quote
alten hilt wrote:
And swarms are a little OP against LAV's at the moment. Mostly because once a lock on is achieved there is almost nothing I can do to evade those suckers. Can't outrun them ( they will fly forever until they hit something), they can reverse direction instantly, and navigate around corners like crazy. If I'm lucky, I can kill the swarmer before he gets that second shot off, but due to the fact that the swarm explosion animation drops my frame rate to 0, this is unlikely.
This statement is a lie.
Swarm Launchers cannot turn corners, and a NOS module allows you to turn the corner with ease. Perhaps you should take note of where the Swarm Launcher user is, so you know which corner to turn when he fires. It's not difficult.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.04.01 11:20:00 -
[125] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:It depends on my fits... my triple hardend ion cannon/particle cannon/XTmissile fits still kick ass and absorb **** loads incoming AV be it swarms forges and pic's I still haven't lost one of my triple hardend Gunnlogis so far.
but my norm 2 harder dammage mod/shield booster/ extender can't take as much AV as they did before the hot fix and i have acctually lost a few to av.
Tank on tank combat feels much the same as it still really comes down to who fires first or who's hardners/boosters are expended first.
I ran my double hardener shield booster/damage/extender fit yesterday, and lost quite a few. Not to AV mind you but to other rail tanks. It all came down to that first shot. The only difference now, 2 hardeners doesn't show any appreciable defense against other rails as it did before.
While AV may be a bit more balanced against tanks, tank on tank just went out the window. Sica's are more powerful than ever.
Thanks for the feedback fella's though, you have made me question my own idea's. While I don't think they went the right direction, it has spurned some new idea's of where we could go with this. Keeping in mind tanks are yet to be finished.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
2290
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:21:00 -
[126] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:calisk galern wrote:seems the same to me of course i've never used hardeners, mobility has always been my shield. You probably get destroyed a lot.
not really i've lost 9 tanks over the last month and I need to bring them out nearly every single match, 3 of those tanks were lost yesterday when I was facing a full squad of valor tanks, i ended up ending with 2300 war points, was rough since they were camping the spawn with a minimum of 2 rails at all times with several blasters farming the team and an assault drop ship, but i managed to make 4 of them go negative. my deaahes were good though, one blew up on being called in, my first death was just a sheer ambush got bush wacked by 3 of their tanks from all sides( hardeners would of done **** ), and the final death came at a double ko with a proto rail tank.
but ya normally i don't lose my tank at all, same reason a good scout in the last build had nearly no ehp but could go 30/0, tanks can do the same. |
alten hilt
DUST University
Ivy League
128
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:48:00 -
[127] - Quote
Atiim wrote:alten hilt wrote:
And swarms are a little OP against LAV's at the moment. Mostly because once a lock on is achieved there is almost nothing I can do to evade those suckers. Can't outrun them ( they will fly forever until they hit something), they can reverse direction instantly, and navigate around corners like crazy. If I'm lucky, I can kill the swarmer before he gets that second shot off, but due to the fact that the swarm explosion animation drops my frame rate to 0, this is unlikely.
This statement is a lie. Swarm Launchers cannot turn corners, and a NOS module allows you to turn the corner with ease. Perhaps you should take note of where the Swarm Launcher user is, so you know which corner to turn when he fires. It's not difficult.
You obviously never been on the receiving end of swarms. I've turned 90' corners and had a whole flight of swarms follow me without a problem. I suppose it depends on how far away they are. If I turn a corner right as you launch them, then yeah, the swarms will try to head straight to my new position. But if they are even halfway to me, then they turn the corner 8 times out of 10 |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6335
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:52:00 -
[128] - Quote
alten hilt wrote:
You obviously never been on the receiving end of swarms. I've turned 90' corners and had a whole flight of swarms follow me without a problem. I suppose it depends on how far away they are. If I turn a corner right as you launch them, then yeah, the swarms will try to head straight to my new position. But if they are even halfway to me, then they turn the corner 8 times out of 10
I've been on the receiving end of Swarm Launchers plenty of times, and I've been on the giving end more than anyone in this thread. Assumptions are bad for you.
And from my experience, I can guarantee that the Swarm Launcher AI has not turned a corner (greater than 5-¦) since Uprising 1.8. No, they will not head straight to your position.
Perhaps you should see for yourself. Actually use a Swarm Launcher and get back to me on that one.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
116
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:53:00 -
[129] - Quote
alten hilt wrote:Atiim wrote:alten hilt wrote:
And swarms are a little OP against LAV's at the moment. Mostly because once a lock on is achieved there is almost nothing I can do to evade those suckers. Can't outrun them ( they will fly forever until they hit something), they can reverse direction instantly, and navigate around corners like crazy. If I'm lucky, I can kill the swarmer before he gets that second shot off, but due to the fact that the swarm explosion animation drops my frame rate to 0, this is unlikely.
This statement is a lie. Swarm Launchers cannot turn corners, and a NOS module allows you to turn the corner with ease. Perhaps you should take note of where the Swarm Launcher user is, so you know which corner to turn when he fires. It's not difficult. You obviously never been on the receiving end of swarms. I've turned 90' corners and had a whole flight of swarms follow me without a problem. I suppose it depends on how far away they are. If I turn a corner right as you launch them, then yeah, the swarms will try to head straight to my new position. But if they are even halfway to me, then they turn the corner 8 times out of 10
you guys obviously cant drive a lav skill the only thing that kills me in a lav is a FRINDLY TANK around a conor where niether of us new the other was there a good drive can escape swarms i have been in a place where i had 2 ENEMY blaster tanks on each side of me while driving a shield lav and i survived learn to drive
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
116
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
Atiim wrote:alten hilt wrote:
You obviously never been on the receiving end of swarms. I've turned 90' corners and had a whole flight of swarms follow me without a problem. I suppose it depends on how far away they are. If I turn a corner right as you launch them, then yeah, the swarms will try to head straight to my new position. But if they are even halfway to me, then they turn the corner 8 times out of 10
I've been on the receiving end of Swarm Launchers plenty of times, and I've been on the giving end more than anyone in this thread. Assumptions are bad for you. And from my experience, I can guarantee that the Swarm Launcher AI has not turned a corner (greater than 5-¦) since Uprising 1.8. No, they will not head straight to your position. Perhaps you should see for yourself. Actually use a Swarm Launcher and get back to me on that one.
ya there turn radius not big i give them and take them they just cant drive is all
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
736
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:11:00 -
[131] - Quote
Atiim wrote:alten hilt wrote:
You obviously never been on the receiving end of swarms. I've turned 90' corners and had a whole flight of swarms follow me without a problem. I suppose it depends on how far away they are. If I turn a corner right as you launch them, then yeah, the swarms will try to head straight to my new position. But if they are even halfway to me, then they turn the corner 8 times out of 10
I've been on the receiving end of Swarm Launchers plenty of times, and I've been on the giving end more than anyone in this thread. Assumptions are bad for you. And from my experience, I can guarantee that the Swarm Launcher AI has not turned a corner (greater than 5-¦) since Uprising 1.8. No, they will not head straight to your position. Perhaps you should see for yourself. Actually use a Swarm Launcher and get back to me on that one.
He is right, swarm AI is far more manageable in a tank now. They used to follow you when you took tight turns around buildings, now they end up IN THE BUILDING.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
655
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:32:00 -
[132] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
Due to the damage mod and proficiency nerfs, armor repper tanks are actually a good bit more effective than before.
So, let's see... PLC Prof = Shield (Next to useless weapon as AV anyway) Forge Prof = Armor Swarm Prof = Armor Sooo... how did it affect armor tanks?
pre 1.8:
3 damage mods = 124.4% damage
post 1.8:
3 damage mods = 112.2% damage
There you go, a 10% nerf to swarms/forge guns versus armor tanks.
Fixing swarms
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3225
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:58:00 -
[133] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Skihids wrote:
It won't work. You can't balance on ISK. All you would do is create an elite few that could stomp with impunity.
The PC ISK farmers could still spam as many as they wanted.
As long as vehicles share the same role (infantry slaughter) as infantry, they have to be balanced 1v1 with a dropsuit. CCP is almost there now, and has but to kill stacked reppers to complete the job. Then they can reduce the price to equal the dropsuit and we will have true AV/V tiericide.
(GASP) WHAT?!!!??? WHAT?! 1v1 with infantry? Then what's the point of tanks? Lower the cost to dropsuit cost? Then everyone would go tanks. Let's face it, tanks are large targets that move faster than most infantry. They have room for 3 gunners and fill specific roles. Do I agree that tanks are suppose to be good against infantry? No, not the large turrets anyway. Should the large turrets be only good against vehicles? Probably not, no matter what a large rail shot should take out any standing infantry. Should CCP make it harder for them to hit? Sure, but you cannot say that tanks should be equal to usefulness and cost of infantry. If that were the case then CCP should have just yanked all vehicles when they removed logi LAVS, logi dropships and enforcer HAVs. true tiericide? are you kidding? As far as the balance isk issue, yes, there will always be elites that have the isk to spend but you know what, if they keep wasting their tanks that cost a mil isk or more, then every match I will sit there and take it from them. As far as those with tons of PC districts, CCP has gone a long way of knocking them down a peg or two with the removal of district locking. Now, corps like Nyain San have lost more than half of their districts and will probably continue to do so until their fairly small corp gets to a reasonable size that they can defend and hold. They will still of PC districts though until a stronger corp comes along and if you hate that any corp besides your own has a district than get over it, beef up your corp, take a district or just plain go to a different corp that already has a district.
I didn't say I was in favor, merely that CCP has limited balance options and that they picked one to implement.
The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit
A tank as you and I think of it is far better than one infantry suit. It has more eHP, hits harder, and drives faster. That means it is worth a multiple of a suit, making it a force multiplier when driven by one player. The low player count means a couple of these will unbalance the match.
You can eliminate the multiplier by adding crew requirements. If the vehicle will be worth three suits it takes three suits to run.
Another way to deal with the problem is to side step it. Remove the large turret's AI capability and put more in the game for the rail turret to destroy. We are getting out idea of what a tank is from modern day, so let's take thier mission from modern day as well. No army today uses its main battle tank's main gun to kill infantry 1v1. They use them to blow up the big stuff. They breach walls, knock down bridges and towers, and destroy bunkers.
You can also cut down the size of the imbalance by limiting the number deployed. CCP did that in Ambush.
Failing any of the previous you can simply swing the nerf bat until the vehicle no longer has an eHP or effective movement advantage such that it can be killed by a lone merc as easily as the vehicle can kill the merc. This is the least desirable method because it destroys the whole notion of what the vehicle is, but it is by far the easiest and fastest to implement. This is the path that CCP has chosen. |
echo47
Minmatar Republic
260
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
You guys should really hold off on all this until the forge is fixed. This is the only reason lot of you are surviving. A lot of times the forge is only applying damage every other shot.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6335
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:11:00 -
[135] - Quote
echo47 wrote:You guys should really hold off on all this until the forge is fixed. This is the only reason lot of you are surviving. A lot of times the forge is only applying damage every other shot.
That conclusion would only be valid if the problem started as a result of the Forge Gun fix, which it didn't.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
1086
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:32:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP broke vehicles.
The problem was NEVER the amount hardened. It was short cooldowns and hardener stacking allowing perma hardened vehicles, alongside militia modules being just as effective as proto modules. All they needed do was limit hardeners to one per vehicle. That's it. Now hardener stacking is the only viable fit, and even then it is more efficient to call out a sica, because a militia railgun can remove a double hardened gunnlogi's shield in 4 shots.
They need to bring back the old hardener values and limit the amount you can put on the vehicle. The changes did absolutely nothing to emphasize waves of opportunity.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
739
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:05:00 -
[137] - Quote
( Skihids: The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit)
i guess the same could be said for proto suits and modules in pub matches.. since tank versus tank is alot more balanced than drop suit vs drop suit.
if it takes 2 players too kill a single player in a proto suit. then shouldnt the proto suit require 2 players to use it?.
by this logic gameplay is ridiculously stupid in general. but it might tone down stomp matches.. potentially.
what shall our newberries due?. by all rights and respect to them. their the ones that deserve to cry and whine all they want. they get farmed for kills and warpoints by proto scrubs without a second thought. the new berries invented the murder taxi. they discovered a way to counter a proto suit. and that counter was bitched about endlessly then abused badly later on by the actual scrubs till its removal. come 1.7. our mlt newberries discovered tanks to be the best counter to proto stompers. and all the bitching here is perfect proof of it. and those few paths are dead wrong in general. there are many more paths than u think. no1 seems to have learned them or figured them out by now. except maybe for the ignored few. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6341
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:09:00 -
[138] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
pre 1.8:
3 damage mods = 124.4% damage
post 1.8:
3 damage mods = 112.2% damage
There you go, a 10% nerf to swarms/forge guns versus armor tanks.
Actually, that's a 10.2% nerf to all AV against all vehicles.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6341
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:11:00 -
[139] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:CCP broke vehicles.
The problem was NEVER the amount hardened. It was short cooldowns and hardener stacking allowing perma hardened vehicles, alongside militia modules being just as effective as proto modules. All they needed do was limit hardeners to one per vehicle. That's it. Now hardener stacking is the only viable fit, and even then it is more efficient to call out a sica, because a militia railgun can remove a double hardened gunnlogi's shield in 4 shots.
They need to bring back the old hardener values and limit the amount you can put on the vehicle. The changes did absolutely nothing to emphasize waves of opportunity.
My approach, would have been to allow multiple hardeners, but all of the hardeners would activate at the same time.
That way, you can have a fitting that has a higher resistance, but at the cost of a lower HP buffer.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6341
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:13:00 -
[140] - Quote
Figured I should leave this for those of you who are theorycrafting fits.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
|
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9153
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:14:00 -
[141] - Quote
Are people are still complaining they cannot destroy HAV?
In all seriousness?
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6341
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Are people are still complaining they cannot destroy HAV?
In all seriousness?
Dem Triple Rep Madrugars though.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1059
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
I would just like to say that the hardener Nerf was fair and the tankers who are crying should feel ashamed. Imagine my lolz when I couldn't just turn on a hardener and sit through an orbital! Shield tanks are challenging now, you aren't invincible anymore and it seems av has finally found its backbone as I am seeing swarms everywhere in groups.
The supper repper nos gal tank is a problem IMO, I have fought with them and against them and the only way to really destroy them is proto rail or adv/proto rail + a missile tank. I tried to down one with me an my gunner in an assault dropship and as soon as we had to reload (xt missiles) his armor was back. We tried alternating our fire to keep a continuous stream of missiles on him but we were in a dropship so cover and buildings and changes in direction hampered that plan. I'm pretty sure a rail tank came and together we were able to bring it down.
Honestly even in my missile tank I would think twice about engaging a rep tank with nos, and missile tanks are designed to hunt those so....... |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9153
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:I would just like to say that the hardener Nerf was fair and the tankers who are crying should feel ashamed. Imagine my lolz when I couldn't just turn on a hardener and sit through an orbital! Shield tanks are challenging now, you aren't invincible anymore and it seems av has finally found its backbone as I am seeing swarms everywhere in groups.
The supper repper nos gal tank is a problem IMO, I have fought with them and against them and the only way to really destroy them is proto rail or adv/proto rail + a missile tank. I tried to down one with me an my gunner in an assault dropship and as soon as we had to reload (xt missiles) his armor was back. We tried alternating our fire to keep a continuous stream of missiles on him but we were in a dropship so cover and buildings and changes in direction hampered that plan. I'm pretty sure a rail tank came and together we were able to bring it down.
Honestly even in my missile tank I would think twice about engaging a rep tank with nos, and missile tanks are designed to hunt those so.......
The only solution to that are depreciating rep values on stacked modules.... otherwise nerfs just penalise those like me who only user a single repper, and I think current rep values are pretty fair...unless we hit the old active rep modules.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
741
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:25:00 -
[145] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:I would just like to say that the hardener Nerf was fair and the tankers who are crying should feel ashamed. Imagine my lolz when I couldn't just turn on a hardener and sit through an orbital! Shield tanks are challenging now, you aren't invincible anymore and it seems av has finally found its backbone as I am seeing swarms everywhere in groups.
The supper repper nos gal tank is a problem IMO, I have fought with them and against them and the only way to really destroy them is proto rail or adv/proto rail + a missile tank. I tried to down one with me an my gunner in an assault dropship and as soon as we had to reload (xt missiles) his armor was back. We tried alternating our fire to keep a continuous stream of missiles on him but we were in a dropship so cover and buildings and changes in direction hampered that plan. I'm pretty sure a rail tank came and together we were able to bring it down.
Honestly even in my missile tank I would think twice about engaging a rep tank with nos, and missile tanks are designed to hunt those so....... The only solution to that are depreciating rep values on stacked modules.... otherwise nerfs just penalise those like me who only user a single repper, and I think current rep values are pretty fair...unless we hit the old active rep modules.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=152998&find=unread
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
741
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:28:00 -
[146] - Quote
Read the link I posted above please. I'd rather that be where the discussion takes place. Lovin it all btw. Good to see such a discussion going on!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
5436
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:44:00 -
[147] - Quote
I drive and gun in an LAV. I am completely unaffected by the hardener changes because I never used them.
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3228
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:43:00 -
[148] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:( Skihids: The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit)
i guess the same could be said for proto suits and modules in pub matches.. since tank versus tank is alot more balanced than drop suit vs drop suit.
if it takes 2 players too kill a single player in a proto suit. then shouldnt the proto suit require 2 players to use it?.
by this logic gameplay is ridiculously stupid in general. but it might tone down stomp matches.. potentially.
what shall our newberries due?. by all rights and respect to them. their the ones that deserve to cry and whine all they want. they get farmed for kills and warpoints by proto scrubs without a second thought. the new berries invented the murder taxi. they discovered a way to counter a proto suit. and that counter was bitched about endlessly then abused badly later on by the actual scrubs till its removal. come 1.7. our mlt newberries discovered tanks to be the best counter to proto stompers. and all the bitching here is perfect proof of it. and those few paths are dead wrong in general. there are many more paths than u think. no1 seems to have learned them or figured them out by now. except maybe for the ignored few.
It doesn't take two MLT players to take out a proto suit. A MLT scout can do it in many ways, shotgun, RE, etc. Weapons are powerful enough that TTK is short enough to get a kill. Still, there are those who advocate further tiericide. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9186
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
Skihids wrote:CLONE117 wrote:( Skihids: The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit)
i guess the same could be said for proto suits and modules in pub matches.. since tank versus tank is alot more balanced than drop suit vs drop suit.
if it takes 2 players too kill a single player in a proto suit. then shouldnt the proto suit require 2 players to use it?.
by this logic gameplay is ridiculously stupid in general. but it might tone down stomp matches.. potentially.
what shall our newberries due?. by all rights and respect to them. their the ones that deserve to cry and whine all they want. they get farmed for kills and warpoints by proto scrubs without a second thought. the new berries invented the murder taxi. they discovered a way to counter a proto suit. and that counter was bitched about endlessly then abused badly later on by the actual scrubs till its removal. come 1.7. our mlt newberries discovered tanks to be the best counter to proto stompers. and all the bitching here is perfect proof of it. and those few paths are dead wrong in general. there are many more paths than u think. no1 seems to have learned them or figured them out by now. except maybe for the ignored few. It doesn't take two MLT players to take out a proto suit. A MLT scout can do it in many ways, shotgun, RE, etc. Weapons are powerful enough that TTK is short enough to get a kill. Still, there are those who advocate further tiericide.
Dude tanks are an example of Tiericide done wrong...... be careful how you throw that word around.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
|
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
1982
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:02:00 -
[150] - Quote
They cut the already too low tank TTK in half, Dual hard one damage used to take 8 shots to kill it from a mirror fit now 4 dual DMG single harden used to take 4 now it takes 2. TTK is so short there is no time to react and try and maneuver or use terrain just who shoots first.
I'm a carried scrub!
|
|
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
304
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:11:00 -
[151] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
Due to the damage mod and proficiency nerfs, armor repper tanks are actually a good bit more effective than before.
So, let's see... PLC Prof = Shield (Next to useless weapon as AV anyway) Forge Prof = Armor Swarm Prof = Armor Sooo... how did it affect armor tanks? pre 1.8: 3 damage mods = 124.4% damage post 1.8: 3 damage mods = 112.2% damage There you go, a 10% nerf to swarms/forge guns versus armor tanks.
Ok, Forge Gun I can give you but I heard Swarms got fixed and are now a real threat to tanks again.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
|
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
304
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:29:00 -
[152] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:I would just like to say that the hardener Nerf was fair and the tankers who are crying should feel ashamed. Imagine my lolz when I couldn't just turn on a hardener and sit through an orbital! Shield tanks are challenging now, you aren't invincible anymore and it seems av has finally found its backbone as I am seeing swarms everywhere in groups.
The supper repper nos gal tank is a problem IMO, I have fought with them and against them and the only way to really destroy them is proto rail or adv/proto rail + a missile tank. I tried to down one with me an my gunner in an assault dropship and as soon as we had to reload (xt missiles) his armor was back. We tried alternating our fire to keep a continuous stream of missiles on him but we were in a dropship so cover and buildings and changes in direction hampered that plan. I'm pretty sure a rail tank came and together we were able to bring it down.
Honestly even in my missile tank I would think twice about engaging a rep tank with nos, and missile tanks are designed to hunt those so....... The only solution to that are depreciating rep values on stacked modules.... otherwise nerfs just penalise those like me who only user a single repper, and I think current rep values are pretty fair...unless we hit the old active rep modules.
I really see no reason to nerf Armor Rep stacking as that fit is only good for one thing: pub stomping noobs, there, I said it, noobs. If there's even one guy on the enemy team who knows what a hard counter is that particular tank will blow up instantly. Without giving you any chance to fight back or even react before you are dead.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
|
shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
117
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:01:00 -
[153] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:True Adamance wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:I would just like to say that the hardener Nerf was fair and the tankers who are crying should feel ashamed. Imagine my lolz when I couldn't just turn on a hardener and sit through an orbital! Shield tanks are challenging now, you aren't invincible anymore and it seems av has finally found its backbone as I am seeing swarms everywhere in groups.
The supper repper nos gal tank is a problem IMO, I have fought with them and against them and the only way to really destroy them is proto rail or adv/proto rail + a missile tank. I tried to down one with me an my gunner in an assault dropship and as soon as we had to reload (xt missiles) his armor was back. We tried alternating our fire to keep a continuous stream of missiles on him but we were in a dropship so cover and buildings and changes in direction hampered that plan. I'm pretty sure a rail tank came and together we were able to bring it down.
Honestly even in my missile tank I would think twice about engaging a rep tank with nos, and missile tanks are designed to hunt those so....... The only solution to that are depreciating rep values on stacked modules.... otherwise nerfs just penalise those like me who only user a single repper, and I think current rep values are pretty fair...unless we hit the old active rep modules. I really see no reason to nerf Armor Rep stacking as that fit is only good for one thing: pub stomping noobs, there, I said it, noobs. If there's even one guy on the enemy team who knows what a hard counter is, that particular tank will blow up instantly. Without giving you any chance to fight back or even react before you are dead.
dude a tank can back off for 5 seconds and have about full health back
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6343
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:26:00 -
[154] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:
I really see no reason to nerf Armor Rep stacking as that fit is only good for one thing: pub stomping noobs, there, I said it, noobs. If there's even one guy on the enemy team who knows what a hard counter is, that particular tank will blow up instantly. Without giving you any chance to fight back or even react before you are dead.
And by hard counter, you mean anything other than a Swarm Launcher, Plasma Cannon, or Non-Breach Forge Gun?
If there is a fitting that makes it theoretically impossible to solo with an AV weapon, it needs to be nerfed. Especially when said AV weapon is specifically designed to destroy it.
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
shadow drake35
the third day
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
117
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:32:00 -
[155] - Quote
Atiim wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:
I really see no reason to nerf Armor Rep stacking as that fit is only good for one thing: pub stomping noobs, there, I said it, noobs. If there's even one guy on the enemy team who knows what a hard counter is, that particular tank will blow up instantly. Without giving you any chance to fight back or even react before you are dead.
And by hard counter, you mean anything other than a Swarm Launcher, Plasma Cannon, or Non-Breach Forge Gun? If there is a fitting that makes it theoretically impossible to solo with an AV weapon, it needs to be nerfed. Especially when said AV weapon is specifically designed to destroy it.
even some tanks have issue a guys back off of me for 3 seconds in a tank fiht and had half armor but when he was back it was full
MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
306
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
shadow drake35 wrote:dude a tank can back off for 5 seconds and have about full health back
Doesn't matter how fast it gets it's health back since the stuff that kills it will bring it down from full health to 0 before it can rep even one cycle.
Atiim wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:
I really see no reason to nerf Armor Rep stacking as that fit is only good for one thing: pub stomping noobs, there, I said it, noobs. If there's even one guy on the enemy team who knows what a hard counter is, that particular tank will blow up instantly. Without giving you any chance to fight back or even react before you are dead.
And by hard counter, you mean anything other than a Swarm Launcher, Plasma Cannon, or Non-Breach Forge Gun? If there is a fitting that makes it theoretically impossible to solo with an AV weapon, it needs to be nerfed. Especially when said AV weapon is specifically designed to destroy it.
As I am posting this I am not taking into account the bugged FG, bugged Railgun or bugged Large Turrets in general.
Actually more like anything other than 1.7 Swarm Launcher, PLC, Non-Assault Forge Gun, AV nade or Blaster.
It may be immortal against any of those that try to solo it, but then again nearly no one gets any kind of tanks killed with PLC or AV nade so those don't count.
Large Blaster will not kill it unless you are godlike with it or have dmg mod.
Swarm Launcher and any kind of Forge Gun will kill it if you hit the weak spot, which is how it should be.
Proxies, Remotes and Large Missiles will instagib it.
Large Railgun will kill it in roughly 3-4 hits without dmg mods, with dmg mods it gets as low as 2 hits, I believe it's 1 hit if you hit the weak spot.
It can be killed very fast by Small Missiles attached to a Python.
Assault Forge Gun will kill it without too much trouble.
Small Railguns will kill it if attached to an Incubus.
So it is immune to the 2 weapons that every tank is (which is broken, but not partically because of this fit).
It is astonishingly good against Blaster tanks.
It is neither good nor bad against Swarms or Non-Assault Forge Guns.
It is terribad against Proxies, Remotes and Large Missiles.
It is very bad against Large Rails and Small Missiles (attached to an ADS).
It is bad against Assault Forge Gun and Small rails (attached to an ADS).
Summary:
Strenghts: 1
Not weakness, not strength: 2
Weaknesses: 7
So where stuff normally goes more like this...
Strenghts: 3
Not weakness, not strength: 5
Weaknesses: 2
... I would say this tank is much more balanced than most.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3229
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:20:00 -
[157] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Skihids wrote:CLONE117 wrote:( Skihids: The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit)
i guess the same could be said for proto suits and modules in pub matches.. since tank versus tank is alot more balanced than drop suit vs drop suit.
if it takes 2 players too kill a single player in a proto suit. then shouldnt the proto suit require 2 players to use it?.
by this logic gameplay is ridiculously stupid in general. but it might tone down stomp matches.. potentially.
what shall our newberries due?. by all rights and respect to them. their the ones that deserve to cry and whine all they want. they get farmed for kills and warpoints by proto scrubs without a second thought. the new berries invented the murder taxi. they discovered a way to counter a proto suit. and that counter was bitched about endlessly then abused badly later on by the actual scrubs till its removal. come 1.7. our mlt newberries discovered tanks to be the best counter to proto stompers. and all the bitching here is perfect proof of it. and those few paths are dead wrong in general. there are many more paths than u think. no1 seems to have learned them or figured them out by now. except maybe for the ignored few. It doesn't take two MLT players to take out a proto suit. A MLT scout can do it in many ways, shotgun, RE, etc. Weapons are powerful enough that TTK is short enough to get a kill. Still, there are those who advocate further tiericide. Dude tanks are an example of Tiericide done wrong...... be careful how you throw that word around.
Oh, I completely agree with you. CCP borked up vehicles big time. I would have chosen any other balance tactic than the one they picked and I would have teired vehicle modules in a different way. Certainly the TTK is far to short for the current module differences to kick in. Vehicle vs. vehicle fights are all about who saw who first and a zero SP 70k ISK Sica can take out any other vehicle. Vehicle vs. Infantry is approaching 1v1 so vehicles won't offer any force multiplication. It's a **** poor way of balancing, but it's the one CCP is implementing. The only thing left is to reduce vehicle costs to reflect the fact that they are no longer any better than a suit. You can't expect pilots to shell out proto plus prices for equipment they will lose multiple times per match.
All that is why I stopped playing. Flying the ADS is now a complete act of masochism and fiscal irresponsibility. It's simply no fun anymore. CCP doesn't seem to get vehicles. |
BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
726
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:00:00 -
[158] - Quote
Skihids wrote:True Adamance wrote:Skihids wrote:CLONE117 wrote:( Skihids: The choices are:
Require a multi-player crew
Seperate heavy vehicles from infantry so they don't compete directly
Place a very low artificial limit on deployment
Nerf heavy vehicles to be no different than a suit)
i guess the same could be said for proto suits and modules in pub matches.. since tank versus tank is alot more balanced than drop suit vs drop suit.
if it takes 2 players too kill a single player in a proto suit. then shouldnt the proto suit require 2 players to use it?.
by this logic gameplay is ridiculously stupid in general. but it might tone down stomp matches.. potentially.
what shall our newberries due?. by all rights and respect to them. their the ones that deserve to cry and whine all they want. they get farmed for kills and warpoints by proto scrubs without a second thought. the new berries invented the murder taxi. they discovered a way to counter a proto suit. and that counter was bitched about endlessly then abused badly later on by the actual scrubs till its removal. come 1.7. our mlt newberries discovered tanks to be the best counter to proto stompers. and all the bitching here is perfect proof of it. and those few paths are dead wrong in general. there are many more paths than u think. no1 seems to have learned them or figured them out by now. except maybe for the ignored few. It doesn't take two MLT players to take out a proto suit. A MLT scout can do it in many ways, shotgun, RE, etc. Weapons are powerful enough that TTK is short enough to get a kill. Still, there are those who advocate further tiericide. Dude tanks are an example of Tiericide done wrong...... be careful how you throw that word around. Oh, I completely agree with you. CCP borked up vehicles big time. I would have chosen any other balance tactic than the one they picked and I would have teired vehicle modules in a different way. Certainly the TTK is far to short for the current module differences to kick in. Vehicle vs. vehicle fights are all about who saw who first and a zero SP 70k ISK Sica can take out any other vehicle. Vehicle vs. Infantry is approaching 1v1 so vehicles won't offer any force multiplication. It's a **** poor way of balancing, but it's the one CCP is implementing. The only thing left is to reduce vehicle costs to reflect the fact that they are no longer any better than a suit. You can't expect pilots to shell out proto plus prices for equipment they will lose multiple times per match. All that is why I stopped playing. Flying the ADS is now a complete act of masochism and fiscal irresponsibility. It's simply no fun anymore. CCP doesn't seem to get vehicles.
Quote:
Vehicle vs. vehicle fights are all about who saw who first
yes and no
in 1.7 is was who runs the shield/armor mod STD tank wins on head to head
but in 1.7 there was still times where id get jumped by to tanks or a tank and take 1 -2 shots be for i could fire back or 200+ rounds from a blaster and yet id still pull off a win.
more so vsing mlt tanks to.
what im trying to get at here is as of right now even tho i like all of you rage form time to time over mlt tank when your vsing like a never ending wave of them even tho you take out like 20 of them your 1 lost gets you o just under what you need to pay for the tank and yet 1 of them who lost 5 of his tanks still got to buy them back with isk to go around .
but remember untill the pilot suits come up i dont think where seeing any good rift between mlt unskilled not-a-tanker vsing skilled SP my whole life in to tanks tanker.
Flying the ADS like driving a tank is a support roll and yes it should cost a arm and leg to play with more so you FLY not drive you have the roll of dropping off troops and supporting them dog fighting and have your own main gun so yes you be your self can move anywhere and do lots more then a tank so yes you should cost a arm and a leg to buy !
2nd
as of rigth now with the 1.8 im fine with this! AND JUST SHUT UP AND SIT BACK DOWN IM NOT DONE TALKING !
thank you....
as of right now im Fine with the nerfs to tanks with only mlt and std tanks this makes pro tanks more powerful in fact the pro could be even stronger then the std 1.7 tanks and may even get a range boost to its guns like rail *LOOK OUT ADS 330mm SLUG COMING YOUR WAY!*
and as far as i can sell this game has rely only been about who see,s who 1st with tanks.
as for the tankers crying over who see who 1st
GO PLAY WOT your not a REAL Tanker ! not rly you take your everyone can see ever one to WoT and watch how you get the 1st 240 mm HE Arty Round dropped on your Head form 7 mils away !
tank war is not about driving around like a mad man on crack its about planing and supporting your team and rolling and packs using your Eyes and the team its self to get a idea where the other teams tanks are.
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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