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Ld Collins wrote:

Tebu Gan wrote:

How are these new changes working out for you?

Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now.

But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least.

And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield.

Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound.

While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build.

Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep

492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4)

This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you!

I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place.

I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died.

It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me!

I could easily rip that fit to pieces with a blaster gunnlogi with 2 small missile turrets and a damage mod. Or a 3x damage mod missile gunnlogi or railgun. So far the only changes that this hotfix has brought is that railgun tanks dont railgun snipe anymore. Unless they have a damage mod their chances of killing me are 60/40. Low lvl tankers are easy prey your fit as you have stated isgis great against av and could save you from a python I feel that your fit is completely fair and justified. Armor reps are working as intended. Armor reps should be your speciality considering a maddy is a gallente vehicle and that there are other factors in theggae that you can't avoid. Other tanks ads lavs swarms grenades foreguns explosives plasma cannons and QQers on the forums. As for gunnlogies being weak against railguns from my experience everything is weak agsinst railguns.

A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics

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Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1471	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:13:00 - [91] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: How are these new changes working out for you? Something I've noticed with my gunnlogi, is that with double hardeners up, swarms do a hefty amount of damage now. To me it seems that "waves of opportunity" philosophy was thrown out when you consider them now. But, when you consider what is essentially the weakest AV weapon in game (being the easiest to obtain) doing such heavy damage, what of the other forms? There is no opportunity with them, as you are ALWAYS at risk when you come face to face with any AV, tank, ect. Also note, swarms are inherently ineffective against shields, or should be at least. And rail guns are beastly against gunnlogis. There is no such thing as defense against a rail. With a single damage mod active and a pro turret, most all shield tanks go down in 2 to 4 shots. That's against tanks running a hardener. I know, pretty much the same as before, but now I feel there isn't much to tank engagements. TTK is shorter than ever when a shield tank is considered. Or anything running a shield. Nothings changed, tank on tank is still unbalanced. Tank vs AV has tipped in favor of infantry (slightly). MLT tanks are still over the top when compared with a SP invested tanker. It's a bandaid on a gushing wound. While AV may be happy with the changes and call them balanced, I see nothing of the sort. Why? Well let's consider my new maddie build. Standard blaster turret - 2x complex reps - 1x enhanced rep 492 HP/s on my armor regen. (Rep skill at level 4) This thing is a BEAST against AV. Unless you are running a proto forge or a railgun for that matter, just give up and go home already. Or remotes, that's usually what I lose this to. And it's VERY cheap. No doubt though you will need some points in optimization (maybe) to run it like this. Even if you run basics, that's 300HP/s. Keep yr back to cover and nothing will kill you! I was in a match with some tankers from a previous match (Caused their tanks some serious grief, so they wanted me on their side:) ) running this very build. Was under one of those buildings, the ones on the bridge map, and had 2 tanks directly in front of me. One a gunnlogi and the other a soma. Both running blaster. Gunnlogi throws up hardeners, but those were kinda pointless as I was still doing some serious damage. It drops, and another pulls up to take its place. I think ok, and proceed to work on him, but notice I'm taking far heavier damage than I should against a blaster. I was still reppin it out, but I knew that trend wouldn't last long. It's a rail tank directly behind me (sica w/ MLT rail) poundin away! So, had it not been for that rail tank, hitting me in my weak spot, all dem scrubs would have died. It took the efforts of 4 tanks to drop me! I could easily rip that fit to pieces with a blaster gunnlogi with 2 small missile turrets and a damage mod. Or a 3x damage mod missile gunnlogi or railgun. So far the only changes that this hotfix has brought is that railgun tanks dont railgun snipe anymore. Unless they have a damage mod their chances of killing me are 60/40. Low lvl tankers are easy prey your fit as you have stated isgis great against av and could save you from a python I feel that your fit is completely fair and justified. Armor reps are working as intended. Armor reps should be your speciality considering a maddy is a gallente vehicle and that there are other factors in theggae that you can't avoid. Other tanks ads lavs swarms grenades foreguns explosives plasma cannons and QQers on the forums. As for gunnlogies being weak against railguns from my experience everything is weak agsinst railguns. well tech cept for scout scout >railgun A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
WUT ANG D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 155	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:17:00 - [92] - Quote So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. 4KD Minmatar Assault Weapon sp refund please
shadow drake35 the third day Galactic Skyfleet Empire 105	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:22:00 - [93] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
BAD FURRY Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 702	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:24:00 - [94] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. that's Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution 290	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:25:00 - [95] - Quote shadow drake35 wrote: WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
shadow drake35 the third day Galactic Skyfleet Empire 105	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:25:00 - [96] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. thats what i quess MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
BAD FURRY Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 702	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:26:00 - [97] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 that but we dont have that yet ! Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1110	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:40:00 - [98] - Quote Took on two Maddy with a friend, he dropped two shields that got popped quick. Kill feed said PA on one Maddy. Then a PC version popped me, the ~8K damage in three shots said damage modules. We lost 5 between us, they lost 4. It took the majority of a match with calling in tanks, waiting for hardeners to recover and each side trying to sucker the other into the open. It was a good fight and I suspect they enjoyed much like we did. It was a rare match since the hot fix. To me, there are less tanks over all. I lost several tanker squad mates to 1.7, I have lost a few more although only one said it was directly because of the hot fix Nerf Hammer to hardeners. His analysis of the math said a damage mod tank will win more often than not as the opposite side has to run a hardener all the time to not loose automatically to it. He lost a tank to an OB and wondered why. I told him about the hardener Nerf and his was response was, "I am done with this game. Let me know when they drop the next patch. Then I'll come and check it out". He logged out and I doubt if I will see him in game again. I have been having to pull back to save a PRO turret. ADV as well often. This is how they want us to play. Shoot, get hit, run home until the hardeners recover and to get ammunition. It is an odd decision as the game is decidedly less fun. Oh well, I have other games to play and most of them have decent sniper scopes. Some even have proper tanks. And so it goes.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution 290	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:54:00 - [99] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 that but we dont have that yet ! Most likely we will never have that. Infantry would make death threats to CCP if they ever even asked how the community would feel about those. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
BAD FURRY Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 702	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:57:00 - [100] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: BAD FURRY wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: WUT ANG wrote: So many mercs forget that the gunnlogi and madruger are standard hav's. So the soma and sica should be able to kill you if you get caught off guard. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto The way the game works. what does upgrading your HAV skill do Consume SP. Militia - Standard - Advanced - Proto - T2 - T3 that but we dont have that yet ! Most likely we will never have that. Infantry would make death threats to CCP if they ever even asked how the community would feel about those. Infantry are getting the same thing . Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!

Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:58:00 - [101] - Quote Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6309	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:02:00 - [102] - Quote Actually, Swarm Launchers are not the easiest to obtain. Their are MLT variants of both the Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun, and the Swarm Launcher requires Light Weaponry IV, making it harder to obtain than the Plasma Cannon. Why does everyone keep trying to downplay the Swarm Launcher? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 602	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:12:00 - [103] - Quote Atiim wrote: Actually, Swarm Launchers are not the easiest to obtain. Their are MLT variants of both the Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun, and the Swarm Launcher requires Light Weaponry IV, making it harder to obtain than the Plasma Cannon. Why does everyone keep trying to downplay the Swarm Launcher? Because I tanked during the days when swarms would 3 volley my fit all STD tank worth 500K with both hardeners running from a tower across the map on Line Harvest Apart from that a good 70% of swarm users are complete whiners that are unable to do anything without being force fed. I have successfully kill many tanks with swarms because I use something this community apparently lacks. My brain. Shocker I know. Swarms aren't in the best place right now, however they still work if you're a halfway decent player and position yourself in a smart place. And now, to answer the OP. I like where tanks are now, there's a lot less redline cunts and the fights tend to be a lot better. Now both tanks are viable for tank v. tank fights if played as intended however the hardener nerf has made a lot my Gunnlogi pilots switch back to damage mods. Mmmm Scout ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6312	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:20:00 - [104] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Apart from that a good 70% of swarm users are complete whiners that are unable to do anything without being force fed. [citation needed] The same could be said about vehicle users. Though the margin wouldn't be 70%. It'd be 99% THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I have successfully kill many tanks with swarms because I use something this community apparently lacks. My brain. Yeah, and I had a build that made it theoretically impossible to solo my HAV with anything other than another vehicle, or a Wyrikomi Breach Forge Gun. I made a total of 250m of off idiot tankers saying that they could solo my HAV with a Swarm Launcher. Care to add to that pot? THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Shocker I know. Swarms aren't in the best place right now, however they still work if you're a halfway decent player and position yourself in a smart place. And the same could be said about 1.6 HAVs, except more. If you were actually good with vehicles, it wasn't that hard to survive AV weapons. Then again, I said "good". And your a pilot. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 603	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:04:00 - [105] - Quote Atiim wrote: The same could be said about vehicle users. Though the margin wouldn't be 70%. It'd be 99% Depends on what you consider a tanker, anyone who picked it up before 1.6 don't particularly apply in my book. Atiim wrote: Yeah, and I had a build that made it theoretically impossible to solo my HAV with anything other than another vehicle, or a Wyrikomi Breach Forge Gun. Woohoo, that build is good against one thing! Atiim wrote: I made a total of 250m of off idiot tankers saying that they could solo my HAV with a Swarm Launcher. Care to add to that pot? I have used swarms effectively against numerous tanks. Then again, I've done the same with plasma cannons. It's the user not the weapon. Atiim wrote: And the same could be said about 1.6 HAVs, except more. If you were actually good with vehicles, it wasn't that hard to survive AV weapons. Then again, I said "good". And your a pilot. If you liked hiding in the redline or had a dedicated logilav yeah. I started tanking in 1.3 on a vehicle character I made to test logi lavs, after I maxed out both the Limbus and Charybdis along with my resists and remote repper and booster skills I went into tanks. They were in a very bad place at the time as it was almost impossible to tank without outside funds. Anyone who was profiting was running ambush or were very skilled. I am infantry about 90% of my time playing Dust and I still argue swarmers are ******. The only time I see swarms are people in "Anti-armor" fits because the people who have put AV into them gave up within the first day because it actually took more skill than hiding on a tower 400 meters from what they were shooting at. I'm not saying that this is how you are, I'm generalizing about the majority of the swarm users. They lost their easy mode and now they just cry because a tank touched them wrong without even trying. Now, with that said, I want balance for vehicles but most people have it wrong. You can't balance with price (high or low) and you can't balance with massive changes. It requires small tweaking which CCP can't seem to do, they need to add 25 meters for a week to swarms for an example, gather some data and don't** listen to the delusional community on the forums. They need to get in game with people instead. Mmmm Scout ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
BAD FURRY Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 706	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:09:00 - [106] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. Quote: Shield tanks SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead ! Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 126	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:13:00 - [107] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: Ld Collins wrote: Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. Quote: Shield tanks SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead ! By that logic armor tanks should be dead when you run out of shields but wait armor hardener ftw
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 560	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:13:00 - [108] - Quote You have convinced me to skill into damage mods on my tank character. I wouldn't do it before because hardeners were so OP. What would you recommend on a full proto Gunnlogi? I'm thinking an extender, hardener, and damage mod? B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
Derrith Erador Arrogance. 1430	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:15:00 - [109] - Quote As an ADS pilot who still thinks he is better than everyone, can honestly say that the war between AV and vehicles seems fairly balanced, aside from Av nades of course. It takes normally two or three swarms/forges to take me down, and only if they have any skill or coordination, even then they still fail sometimes as it should be. Vehicles aren't invincible anymore, but they're not underpowered. The lone monk who traverses the treacherous worlds of New Eden in search of panty dropper songs. Amarrican to the core.
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 706	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:20:00 - [110] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: BAD FURRY wrote: Ld Collins wrote: Also just tested the op fit and its trash unless you have cover you're dog food if you get spotted by a gunnlogi with damage mods get ready to restock. My fit had 481.25 hp/s it was useless. Shield tanks need more base armor once shields are gone 1 shot from a railgun is insta kill. Quote: Shield tanks SHEILDS !!! there not a armor tank so ya when its out of shields its dead ! By that logic armor tanks should be dead when you run out of shields but wait armor hardener ftw Quote: armor tanks ARMOR !!! dead when it runs out of ARMOR !! omg rely or you trying to troll ? shields tanks main tanking is with its Shields ! armors tanks main tanking is with ARMOR ! Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!

CLONE117 True Pros Forever 737	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:32:00 - [111] - Quote ahhh i do enjoy my 512.5 reps. ff i could fit 3 complex heavy reps it would be at 543.75 hps reps.. with rep skill maxed. but thats impossible for me currently id most likely need to use a std blaster with blaster turret fit optimization 5 to even hope to fit it. that said it in no way is op. considering how many times ive lost the fit to just about everything. hardener nerf. i guess it solves the problem where tanks with a hardener could survive a direct orbital strike. or most of it any ways. but back to the rep maddy. all u can really fit is a blaster turret. anything different and your over your cpu limit(possibly pg). with a mlt blaster total cost of fit is around 215k isk.. but that doesnt really matter.. the fit it self CANNOT sustain large alpha strikes or anything that can out dps the reps which is basically everything including the lower level swarms. so what kills it is sustained fire. so its a passively tanked fit. it can survive multiple small attacks over a period of time but anything big essentially kills it. hardener tanks weaknesses should have been the multiple attacks over time thing. but perma hardened vehicles pretty much were untouchable save by a glass cannon rail. i have put my 512.5 hps rep tank through its course. against a blaster turret the blaster can and does have the potential to kill me. it out dps the reps by a pretty good amount. but due to the blaster turrets over heat the gunner has to fire in bursts or risk over heating. this is what my reps take advantage of. they can get me down to as low as 1700 armor before having to wait to cool down the turret. in which i will rep to full during the time it takes. now if anything else attacks me during that periord chances are i will not recover in time and will lose the tank. now up against large missile turret. makes me wish i was fighting a rail maddy. missiles will just annihilate the fit in general. doesnt even take the full 12 missiles. with rails its a bit more tricky to get around them. cant actually win unless i take advantage of their slow turret speed though shield tanks would be alot harder to out perform in terms of mobility. overall its got its ups and downs. and since most individual av or large blasters is incapable to sustain the damage for the ttk it takes to kill me. they will need to up the encounter to alpha strikes. which i really have to avoid. though when i first brain stormed the fit i was thinking it was going to be a god fit. but i was clearly dead wrong about that.
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 126	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:46:00 - [112] - Quote Are you trolling or am I the only one who knows shield boosters are broken and shield tanking a gunnlogi is a failure waiting to happen. Shields dissipate rapidly and adding shield extension makes it even worse so you have 2 options damage mods or hardeners which ccp just nerfed from 60% to 40%. So you go glassconnon or dual hardener. Railgun tanks ruled the land in 1.7 because you didnt have to go infield. In 1.8 you have to get out there in fight. Lets say you do 5300 shields 2500 armor gunnlogi and you run into a maddy with a ion cannon dual hardners and an armor rep. The maddy has 4k base armor 1200 sheild 5-6k with both mods on and armor rep. Who wins ....
Rusty Shallows 1336	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:06:00 - [113] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: snip STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FITS !!!!! snip Yes stop posting fits or even discussing. That way the Devs can wait until a certain threshold of generic complaints and QQ is reached. Then they can blanket nerf every aspect of Vehicles in a tragic repeat of Uprising 1.0. CCP may have a history of missing important discussions (like this one) but they have been dead on target in responding to sustained criticism. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 736	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:08:00 - [114] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Pretty sure he's going after the rep stacking because at the moment, that's looking like it will quickly turn into the only viable fit and running anything else won't be an option. Reducing the viability of the most OP think about the current state of tanking is the exact opposite of trying to reduce variety in fittings. It isn't a viable fit though. It is great versus infantry, but horrible versus tanks. It can't take any sort of high alpha, and in any sort of competitive environment, an IAFG once it works right will rip it to shreds. The only reason why it seems OP is because people are incapable of altering their strategy. If you see a full rep Maddy, you call in a Sica and pop it in 20 seconds, problem solved. There is a reason why MLT tanks are that strong. It is to prevent high SP tankers from dominating. Use the tools CCP gave you. Ahh, that was kinda my point. It's a cheap fit, that's not effective against high alpha AV. Played right, it can murder some tanks. Missiles will murder it NP, but they do that to maddies anyways. Rails can drop them, but you certainly underestimate the 500hp/s, in the hands of a good driver. I mentioned It nearly stood up to rail fire from a MLT rail, + 2 blaster right? It can be a chore to take the sucker down. Otherwise, it's the duel reps, with a single hardener. The point being it doesn't address the issue of reps, with madrudgers. Now, I don't enjoy the changes, because I thought they are a step away from the original plan. But I still go out there, after a few days of butt hurt, and murder tanks. It's not like I'm going out there losing tanks left and right all of a sudden. I average pretty much the same as before, though swarms are a very big issue now. I've been forced to change tactics, and play with a bit more skill than before. Not a bad thing, but I think hardener durations were the biggest issue. Plus the hardener stacking penalty would be nice. And a change to swarms so that the little damage they did to a gunnlogi, actually stopped regen. And bump up their damage slightly. It the drastic changes they make that upsets me, really. Always over the top with the nerfs. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 736	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:10:00 - [115] - Quote And holy hell, what happened to my thread. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 736	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:24:00 - [116] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Judge is coming after your rep stacking. Clarity and a bit more clarity. EDIT : I actually meant by this I was going to try kill his tanks with my swarms or ADS. The resulting misunderstanding was interesting however. Keep that In mind as you read on. If I do see you, we need to find a nice quiet spot. I want to see how proto swarms fair with some maneuvering. Your ADS though I would imagine could take it out fairly easy. Those things are beastly fella. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 736	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:25:00 - [117] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Well, vehicles vs AV is in a slightly better spot now, but vehicles vs vehicles is ****** up right now, and that's what I care about. A 0 SP Sica with a MLT hardener and MLT damage mod shouldn't be able to melt right through my hardener with about 14 million SP that are directly affecting my Gunnlogi. This Tanks - Balancing Turrets
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 126	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:50:00 - [118] - Quote If you guys think HAV's and ADS's have it tough, try being a dedicated LAVer! I have an alt that only runs LAV's with a small rail gun. It's a fun way to skirmish, but dang did the hardener nerf hurt! Now, an ADV swarm + damage mod, and any railgun (without damage mods) can 2-shot me off the field no matter how I fit the LAV. Used to be able to survive 3 shots with a hardener. And swarms are a little OP against LAV's at the moment. Mostly because once a lock on is achieved there is almost nothing I can do to evade those suckers. Can't outrun them ( they will fly forever until they hit something), they can reverse direction instantly, and navigate around corners like crazy. If I'm lucky, I can kill the swarmer before he gets that second shot off, but due to the fact that the swarm explosion animation drops my frame rate to 0, this is unlikely. Plus, an HAV with a overdrive can keep up with my LAV Plus CCP fills my LAV's fuel tank with high explosives. If a HAV so much as bumps me I blow up, even friendly HAV's. Plus rail gun installations have near perfect tracking and aim. Once one locks on I'm toast unless there is a corner I can turn before that second shot hits. Plus the usual railgun glitches; like poor hit detection; invisible occlusion over the front of the LAV, railings, walls, hills, etc; firing blanks; and runaway firing without animation or sound. Plus CCP just cut my range down by 1/3, only giving me a 50 meter window to avoid swarm lock on in a best case scenario. In reality, the small railgun struggles to hit anything past 125m. Plus, despite the description of the small railgun being best for installations and vehicles, it suffers a 23% - 44% damage profile reduction to all vehicles and installations? WTF? AND THE MOTHER OF ALL PROBLEMS for LAVer's: I can't lock my LAV and prevent death by blueberry. Seriously, I die more from my own team than I do from the enemy. If I catch a blueberry even so much as looking at my ride, I'm out of there. Seriously, can't you see that I'm sniping the enemy and covering your approach? Don't you see that I'm killing enemies at a nice safe distance? Don't you see me covering the hack of your squad mate? Or that I'm helping a friendly HAV kill an enemy HAV? Or that I'm defending against an enemy rush? NOPE! Blueberry just gets in the drivers seat and drives me into the redzone, or into a crowd of enemy AV, or infantry, or an enemy HAV, or a friendly HAV, or tries to low speed murder taxi, or gets my LAV stuck on the terrain. You think I'm going to just abandon my LAV? it's a 170,000 ISK LAV!! I'm going down with this baby. Anyway, what were you saying about HAV's and ADS's being UP?
Eko Sol Strange Playings 139	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:58:00 - [119] - Quote Vehicle vs vehicle should have the same TTK-ish as Infantry vs Infantry. AV vs Vehicles is where it should be IMO. I actually think it's 100% balanced now. They shouldn't ef with it anymore.
SteelDark Knight Dirt Nap Squad. 278	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:27:00 - [120] - Quote I owe Judge a apology for my earlier post. I took his original comments that he has since clarified to mean something different than he intended. I incorrectly saw it as a disturbing trend of becoming intolerant of other opinions (not the trolls). While I may not agree on every point made I understand and appreciate the great amount of work and effort Judge puts forth. I believe he does this for the benefit of all and I know that CCP takes his opinion in to consideration and for that reason I hope he is always tolerant of others views as long as they are expressed honestly (i.e not trolling) and respectfully.



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