Incorporate a minimum number of "twists" or minimum distance the projectile has to travel before it is armed and will explode. This is a simple feature of most real world grenade launchers as a safety measure and will help ensure the weapon cannot be used as some kind of super-shotgun. It keeps the weapon locked into mid-range combat. You can still give the projectile some damage capability if you get a direct hit at close range...just not explosive damage..

I don't like, removes risk involved with the MD.

Removes risk involved with the MD.

I have to disagree. Personally, I think it adds risk. If you get caught at close-quarters, you're not going to be able to defend yourself with it unless you are a ridiculously good shot with it. Though, a splash radius increase would be nice. Being able to use grenades at point-blank range without being hit at all is sort of ridiculous. There should be a penalty for using it as close-range.

The mass driver is sighted at 5 meters, 10 meters, 20, 30, and 40 meters.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

I guess I would be fine with that, but what if the user starts panic spamming and actually kills you. :/

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

but what if the user starts panic spamming and actually kills you. :/

there are stories in RL of rifle grenades and rpg type weapons not exploding when they hit soft targets i.e people or in the case of dust its merc's. the round would penetrate the person and get lodged inside but the impact detonator in the round would not trigger as the target was too soft. the victim would howether die from the kinetic force sustained from the impact or they would sustain heavy internal damage from it.

if we apply this to MD we have a weapon that does radius damage as usual but if it hits a soft target direct then it would do zero radius damage but would impact that player with direct damage instead. add in the minimum arming range and it sets the MD direct into its expected role.

if ccp worked out some sort of impact calculater then impact damage could be worked out on a range/speed basis.at point blank your MD round would be traveling at its top speed but at this range would not arm but would do max impact damage. as it gets further away the speed decreases and the impact damage would decrease.

at close range impact direct damage is all it will do,

at mid range the round arms allowing for radius/impact damage(but for less impact damage)

at long range(outside optimal) then radius damage still works upto its max range but impact damage is reduced upto a point where it does no damage.

Idea from RydogV in another mass driver *****-a-thon thread:



Basically the MD round won't "explode" within the minimum distance and will only deal direct damage to someone if the round hits them. Seems like an idea that should have been in the game already.

I'd say the minimum distance should be 5 meters since that's the highest blast radius of the weapon but perhaps it could be even further. What do you all think?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

I guess I would be fine with that, but what if the user starts panic spamming and actually kills you. :/

The mass driver is sighted at 5 meters, 10 meters, 20, 30, and 40 meters. It is specifically made to be used in these distances. It is not a mid-long range weapon, it is a close-mid range weapon. Anything further than 40 meters is not sighted and must be guestimated by the user.

EDIT: Instead of running up close to the MD user, engage at 50 meters. This is further than the furthest sight bar on the md, and is easy for you to avoid the shots while mowing him down with your hit-scan 750 bullet per minute AR.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

Than how would he defend himself in cqc?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

Yes this was pretty much the idea of the original premise. Unexploded round does damage but not explosive damage. Personally I think it should be equal to the splash damage amount with a direct impact inside the arming range.

Arming range should be 15 meters.

Get direct hit, switch to. idearm, avoid CQC situations within 5 meters.

Like I was saying, direct hits would still do the gun's normal direct damage, just no explosion and no damage to surrounding enemies within 5 the meter minimum range.

Also, taking the bulky, useless flip-up-site off the gun would be 100% ok with me.

I don't like it, it's a widespread nerf(which isn't needed) based on one variant. I've never heard of anyone using the Assault MD like a shotgun, and lets face it, the Breach doesnt need any more nerfs.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

I think we are missing the point here.

The problem is NOT the mass driver, if we must search a problem the 2 problem are:

A) CLONE istantgib.
B) Spash dmg calc

The first one is too clear it dont need explanation, The second one is the cause of the Mass driver hate. Why people can jump and shoot at their feet with it and avoid all the splash dmg?
Like Cross was saing a few post ago we need semisphere dmg calculation and not circle. When we do this we will see suicide from MD goin rampage.

Nerfing The splash DMG or adding safety will nerf to hell is area-denial use. for a weap to be area-denial YOU NEED TO FEAR IT. You need to know that walking in that area means death.
HOW can be an area denial weapon if you dont fear his dmg or with a running suit you can close the gap before the "SAFETY" activation and be safe from harm?
The only class that will lose to the MD Op want are us heavy. We are simply too slow

Please god no I am completely against minimum distance I don't care if I kill myself by using it too close. I am a logi you to tell me that I can't use my weapon cqc is not fair as I cannot carry a sidearm so my only option would be to melee which is not going to be easy while getting sprayed with bullets. The MD is the most sensible weapon for a logi, think about the people that are better medics period and aren't as good at fps so the assault rifle isn't a good weapon for them. For you to deny this is for you to deny the logi if you are going to make it like any other grenade launcher from a realistic game then you must give all logistics dropsuits a sidearm. You already nerfed flaylock and Caldari logi ok fair enough don't start a nerf fest again.

Only if it has a really funny sound effect and gives you a +75WP BEANBAG KILL if you manage to end someone with it.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

Also ad a matter of fact if i'm stuck behind a wall with no hope of surviving E.g. Wall of protos is running at me and i have 3 shots and no mkre hives, i will use those to kill myself and deny them the 50wp

Exactly. The real issue isn't even the mass driver. It's that Armor is underpowered

Considering that resistances aren't taken into account with splash damage (only direct) it's actually doing about 30% less damage to armor. When that bug gets fixed it's going to skyrocket both in power and use.

I really like the idea as it makes the MD good at what it's supposed to be used for. At the moment the MD excels in CQC and in long range because you don't even have to be accurate, just throw out some rounds and you win.

Personally I feel that the splash damage or radius should drop because it shouldn't be outright killing people with a few shots like it is now, it should be a support weapon getting assists in the double digits at least.

My proto Gallente suit has over 800hp and a proto MD can take me down to dangerous levels in just a few hits near to my feet. I have to stay on target a lot longer whilst they are shooting in my general area and killing me at the same time. The counter to this is to get closer but that doesn't work because they can still just blow me up.

Minimum arming distance should solve the problem of MD being used far too liberally in CQC, a problem which is compounded by the fact that you can get 3 or more people just shooting explosions everywhere.

ANOTHER mass driver thread -_- It's people like YOU that ruin these forums. And for the third time, i will post the same thing that i have in other threads- IF YOU CANNOT BEAT IT THEN DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. just find a DIFFERENT, BETTER WAY to kill them/ get an advantage.

Let's lock the assault rifle trigger at cqc and long distance as well to make it truly balanced
Fk out of here.

Idea from RydogV in another mass driver *****-a-thon thread:



Basically the MD round won't "explode" within the minimum distance and will only deal direct damage to someone if the round hits them. Seems like an idea that should have been in the game already.

I'd say the minimum distance should be 5 meters since that's the highest blast radius of the weapon but perhaps it could be even further. What do you all think?

terrible idea. if you nerf the md, then the ar is the only ranged weapon. stop crying about md's and start crying about that extra ******* skill that every ar user gets

terrible idea. if you nerf the md, then the ar is the only ranged weapon. stop crying about md's and start crying about that extra ******* skill that every ar user gets

That was not a suggestion that the MD only shoots 5 meters and does not explode if that's what you're thinking.

The MD would perform exactly as it does now except that the round won't explode unless it's passed 5 meters. Within that 5 meters it will only deal direct damage if it hits someone.

This. Atm, the mass driver is not just a suppression weapon, it's also a CQC weapon as well as an area denial weapon. It fills all those roles too well and given the fact that it doesn't require much skill to aim at someone's feet and get the same results as the skilled players who are getting direct hits, the MD needs some tweaks.

The tweak to minimum range would remove it's ability in CQC (which is why you equip an SMG as a sidearm) and if you don't have a sidearm slot then you better be packing buddies who can keep you alive in close quarters.

Tl;dr - The mass driver should be a situational area denial weapon, not an explosive assault rifle with five meters splash radius.

Again its been the same since 1.1. We are in 1.3 nobody complained now they complain about it because more people use it now? That's pathetic. It's fine where it is. It has risk using it in cqc. You want to remove that and make have to rely on a side arm close up? ....ha yet the assault rifle can hip fire super good?

Considering that resistances aren't taken into account with splash damage (only direct) it's actually doing about 30% less damage to armor. When that bug gets fixed it's going to skyrocket both in power and use.

But seriously though, the MD has not been the same since 1.1, it got a buff in 1.2 and now it's fotm because it's better than it should be.

And to counter the point you will inevitably make saying GÇ£LOL the buff came in 1.1GÇ¥ I will promptly tell you that it takes time to skill up to proto in a weapon that nobody really cared about using.

Further to my main point, you're still ignoring the fact that the MD should be a situational weapon, it's why the United States military doesn't roll around exclusively in tanks or with the XM203 automatic grenade launcher, and also why only a few guys out of so many are equipped with M249's or M203 underslung launchers. It's because you don't need them all the time.

An AR type weapon (Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle) should always be the weapon of choice with other weapons being situational.

The AR is good but not the best in all areas.

But seriously though, the MD has not been the same since 1.1, it got a buff in 1.2 and now it's fotm because it's better than it should be.

And to counter the point you will inevitably make saying GÇ£LOL the buff came in 1.1GÇ¥ I will promptly tell you that it takes time to skill up to proto in a weapon that nobody really cared about using.

Further to my main point, you're still ignoring the fact that the MD should be a situational weapon, it's why the United States military doesn't roll around exclusively in tanks or with the XM203 automatic grenade launcher, and also why only a few guys out of so many are equipped with M249's or M203 underslung launchers. It's because you don't need them all the time.

An AR type weapon (Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle) should always be the weapon of choice with other weapons being situational.

Being able to kill the user is what makes the MD AMAZING!

Killing yourself gives no penalties to you(except a death, which was already going to happen), plus it DENIES the enemy a kill. So I dont know why you wouldn't use it to kill yourself to stop some one from getting +1 Kill.

Since I didnt notice this stated before the MD is no where near OP, look at the combined CPU & PG requirements for all weapons:
136Swarm Launcher
122Heavy Machine Gun
118Mass Driver
117Plasma Cannon
117Forge Gun
107Sniper Rifle
107Shotgun
103Assault Rifle
102Laser Rifle
098Scrambler Rifle
067Submachine Guns
056Scrambler Pistol
056Nova Knives
047Flaylock Pistol

If you compare that to the damage output and range of the weapons, the MD pays for its power with high CPU & PG requirements.

You want the MD nerfed, GO SUCK A DUCK! then go back to playing with yourself / playing COD...

*sigh*
Guess I should just spend my SP on ARs and the Caldari Assault and pretend to have fun...

At least the assault rifle will work for cqc mid to long distance. At least it can hip fire very well. Look at the bright side, won't ever get nerfed and they're adding new variations

This is seriously a terrible idea. Just bring back the old arc trajectory physics from Chrome. Slower rounds and a drastic dropoff will force players to fight at a distance and have to arc the muzzle upwards, making the weapon clumsy to use in CQC.

Futuristic game. Drop suits, needles that bring back the dead etc. So your point is?
You're still ignoring many factors about the mass driver that I've mention countless times. I really don't waste my time to rewrite them on my phone. AREA Denial gun. Meaning gtfo. Add a safety thst wont allow you to use your gun close up is dumb and instead of being a gun that tells you to gtfo, it'll be rush rush.

Considering that resistances aren't taken into account with splash damage (only direct) it's actually doing about 30% less damage to armor. When that bug gets fixed it's going to skyrocket both in power and use.

It all comes back to what I say about every nerf stop crying about what kills you and step your game up. I hate being killed by Plasma cannons but they are difficult to use and is a weapon more likely to get you killed then get you kills so I respect it also hate being killed by people who chuck grenades instead of shooting people but do I come crying to the forums.

This. Atm, the mass driver is not just a suppression weapon, it's also a CQC weapon as well as an area denial weapon. It fills all those roles too well and given the fact that it doesn't require much skill to aim at someone's feet and get the same results as the skilled players who are getting direct hits, the MD needs some tweaks.

The tweak to minimum range would remove it's ability in CQC (which is why you equip an SMG as a sidearm) and if you don't have a sidearm slot then you better be packing buddies who can keep you alive in close quarters.

Tl;dr - The mass driver should be a situational area denial weapon, not an explosive assault rifle with five meters splash radius.

I think a better solution would be to get the "flat" splash damage fixed. If explosions were occurring in a sphere rather than a circle the CQC value of explosives would be reduced for any player who does not wish to commit suicide.

I'm also dubious about taking more choices out of the players hands, making it "you can't shoot within X range" is a lot more heavy handed than "if you shoot within X range you'll blow yourself up". If we're talking "real world" there's very little reason for an immortal clone solider to have the kind of safety feature described because their loss factor is all in ISK and sometimes it's more effective to take a loss of your own gear while destroying that of the hostile force, so for clones in disposable bodies it just doesn't make sense.

The other, and much bigger issue, is that the MD is a suppression weapon which has been under Uprising geared more and more towards direct/'slayer' combat. This is very much the wrong direction to be taking the MD. Making it more focused on direct/high damage and less on moderate/dispersion (aka splash) damage puts the weapon more and more into direct competition with other offerings in regards to its battlefield role. Dust needs more diversity not less, changes which make the MD function more like the AR in role are going to be bad changes, if they fill the same role or nearly the same role the direct competition will nearly always render one of them fundamentally inferior, replacing greater game diversity (as is the case with the more area denial MD of Chrome) with greater game imbalance (as will be the case if the MD is biased into be a direct/'slayer' primary weapon).

0.02 ISK
Cross

Idea from RydogV in another mass driver *****-a-thon thread:



Basically the MD round won't "explode" within the minimum distance and will only deal direct damage to someone if the round hits them. Seems like an idea that should have been in the game already.

I'd say the minimum distance should be 5 meters since that's the highest blast radius of the weapon but perhaps it could be even further. What do you all think?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

I don't often say this, but you are an idiot.

Do you know what area denial means?

Because I will tell you: It means not allowing a player to close that gap. If you're good with the mass driver you will be keeping enemies at bay, if you suck then they deserve to win in CQC. Go read a dictionary or something, ****.

^ exactly just rush the mass driver, I cant believe people are actually complaining about them In cqc. The assault md takes quite a few shots to kill people, and in my opinion tower assault forgeguns are way more of an issue. mass drivers are only very dangerous on top of high grounds, but isn't every weapon?

Man I'm torn on this, on one hand, it'd be kind of cool, on the other, it would act as a safe-guard for people who spam in CQC, they could just keep spamming, knowing it won't go off unless it reaches just far enough to not hurt them, and honestly the MD projectiles would still have to deal some sort of. probably fairly strong) direct damage even when unexploded. I kind of like the risk of suicide being a deterrent, or punishment.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

The idea of a slow moving baseball sized rock working like a grenade is ridiculous. beyond that this would make the mass driver useless in close quarters. We already have a built in penalty for using a MD in close quarters and its called hitting yourself with splash damage.

Beyond this being one of the more ******** ideas for a weapon adjustment I've heard of, even from the people who don't use the MD, this doesn't change the fact that THIS CHANGE WOULD MAKE THE MD MORE NOOB TUBE NOT LESS.

If my round won't explode unless its 5m out and my MD has a 5m splash range after max skills you aren't stopping a MD user from 'noob tubeing' you, only removing his ability to hurt himself while leaving his ability to hurt you.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T MD TRY TO CHANGE MD. THINGS GET MORE BROKEN RATHER THEN FIXED!

Try using the flaylock now. Let's see how good you'll do with it alone. This is how the mass driver would be at "minimum arming range". Of course many of you would say I suck. But it isn't my fault the hit detection is rubbish. Sometimes the flaylock doesn't even register. That's why I use my smg as my main weapon on my scout. Either tweak how direct damage work by giving it a faster launch at minimum range or something. Or leave the gun as is. Because now it's balanced.

I roll shotgun/flaylock on my scout and I do pretty well, it took me a little bit to adjust when they changed the splash radius and my ADV flaylock became the old STD flaylock, more or less, but I still get kills with it. If I only had the ISK to run my core flaylock on the reg, or if scouts were less poorly balanced, I'm sure I'd do better

I do think MD is balanced more or less as is right now, I just think this idea is kind of an interesting alternative that wouldn't change too much. But in the end I like the possible risk of suicide currently posed more than an arming range.

yea hit detection gets funky up super close and strafing/turning at full speed, makes my shotgun so sad

I'm a idiot? Ha. Why don't smart players rush people with a massive driver? Because they know the weapon will kill them. Add the safety and even the bad players will realize that the gun has a "dead zone" and they will rush you much easier. Doesn't matter how good you are or not . If your a good player you can take out the current mass driver user by keeping your distance. I've even rushed in with a minja scout that uses the nova knife and smg as a main weapon and took him out. Making the gun have a dead zone isn't balanced because it'll be the only weapon that has one. Sorry if players like you aren't good enough to take out a mass driver at a distance. I do it all the time, I don't fight mass driver vs mass driver if I die. I'll get my tac ar and snipe him with it. Not that hard. And people saying that the mass driver is being used as a shotgun lawl. They're somewhat right but they don't understand that it's a risky move to do. You'll end up killing yourself if you go crazy spamming. Mass driver users carry flux. Guess what their same trick works both ways. Flux them as well or throw a grenade. I throw flux and use a smg or just the gek ar. So you're the idiot for not realizing how bad this potential nerf can be. If they do make it, they have to fix the hit detection. Or it will have the same problem that the flay lock has right now. It's very hard to get direct hits and it isn't because of skill but because of poor game design. I won't take the risk of my hits not registering because the devs didn't fix it. Being forced to do direct his with a grenade launcher is stupid. Grenades kill by the shock waves it creates. Making it do direct hits is almost like having a bullet. If you want direct hits make it so in cqc it shoots straight like a bullet and if it hits you you're dead. Why?
A direct hit with a grenade is instant death. Splash you can survive and counter. You can't just take away a ability of the gun with out adding one. Wouldn't go too well. It's like removing the hip fire of a assault rifle in cqc. Basically making the assault rifle aim harder like a tac ar in cqc. Not so balanced.

At the moment the MD is not an area denial weapon, it's a kill everything at no matter what distance weapon.

As for your post Cross, you're right about me not being specced into them but I speak after playing games with my corpmate who specced into them long ago. I asked him to use one just to even the odds and he destroyed people with it. Guess what else he destroyed? A tank. I was lolling very hard due to the fact that not moments earlier I mockingly said GÇ£The MD is OP, use it to kill the tank!GÇ¥

He blew up the tank.

Really now guys.

Really.

Did you even read the link?

At the moment the MD is not an area denial weapon, it's a kill everything at no matter what distance weapon.

As for your post Cross, you're right about me not being specced into them but I speak after playing games with my corpmate who specced into them long ago. I asked him to use one just to even the odds and he destroyed people with it. Guess what else he destroyed? A tank. I was lolling very hard due to the fact that not moments earlier I mockingly said GÇ£The MD is OP, use it to kill the tank!GÇ¥

He blew up the tank.

Really now guys.

Really.

Cant belive that Cross reply is being ignored. In that reply is the only solution viable to not make MD a useless weapon

The only problem with the MD is the Fuking CAL.Suit (logi or ass dosent matter) and the Shoot while jumping (to avoid all splash)

Change the splash dmg calc to flat from Sphere and just watch the CQC noob-spammer kill themself.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

I don't understand how this will make a difference, perhaps that is why it's being ignored?

The counter to removing self inflicted splash damage is surely to jump yourself as you fire, the solution offered by Cross will make no difference to this strategy.

The MD should be a situational area denial weapon, much like a sniper rifle is but at shorter ranges, namely: medium range.

That's sad. That tank stood still long enough for him to do that. That isn't the mass driver fault its the tanks. It's a kill everything no matter the distance? Um, that pretty much sounds like the assault rifle to me. I use it to pick off snipers just saying. At least the mass driver requires more work or more of a thought to be able to take out people at a distance unlike the assault rifle or better yet the tactical assault riffle which has a great range. At least the mass driver requires you think focus on elevation, distance, terrain (hills or flat, height of target etc) just saying. That whole statement is just proved to be bad
Because the simple fact that:
1: the tanks stood still for a while, I bet it wasn't only him attacking it.
2: the it kills everything no matter what the distance sounds more like the assault rifle instead of the mass driver
3: the hit detection is messed up, hit boxes are messed up and the aim assist is off right now. The assault rifle is effected by hit detection, because it requires direct hits and it's still very fking accurate. Imagine how much better it'll be once this is fixed. Ha and people already complain about it

Just because it applies to the AR, this does not mean it applies to ONLY the AR. What you are saying is that currently, the mass driver is being used as an assault rifle because GÇ£the hit detection sucksGÇ¥ for everything else. This is the same as saying GÇ£I can't hit people but I can when I can hit anything within a five meter radius.GÇ¥

Edit: And you clearly didn't read the part in a previous post where I said that an AR is supposed to fulfil all roles but excel in none. Like an AR is good at area denial if you can lead the target and stay on target, but the MD is better because you don't really need to aim and it does more damage to a wider area.

I don't understand how this will make a difference, perhaps that is why it's being ignored?

The counter to removing self inflicted splash damage is surely to jump yourself as you fire, the solution offered by Cross will make no difference to this strategy.

The MD should be a situational area denial weapon, much like a sniper rifle is but at shorter ranges, namely: medium range.

You dont understand simply because you dont ever bother try the MD or just pay attention to the spamming noob.
Let's go with the point.

1) No,it's not a sniper rifle. Area Denial mean " no, you can fukin walk freely in that area." and "no you can fukin take that little crate as a cover" OR " no, you cant walk close together like a wolf pack or like a Greek Oplitia formation"
A sniper rifle have ALL other purpose on the battlefield (that is not paddle KDR ) and if you cant see the difference between the two weapon than you have a little problem regarding game balance

so let's translate this in " MD for Dummies" : You give the Enemy height advantage? You die. You walk close with your squad? You die. You seek cover behind a little obj? you die.

And now let's try to explain WHY Cross hit the core problem and why ignoring something that you dont understand it's bad for ya ( RIP CARLIN)

They main complain of people is that they are spamming the MD in CQC.
But the splash dmg that kill you must have killed the user too...... so what's Happen? Lets do some MATH with the help of X-Y


SUPPOSE you shoot the MD at your feet the MD do 184 DMG on X axis for (let's make an example) 4 meters. The point of impact is Y=0
The flat explosion dmg calc means that IF YOU ARE at Y=1-2-3-4-5-6 you avoid all the self inflicted spash DMG.
WHat do we have if we change this?

Suppose you have s sphere DMG where ALL object inside X=4 and Y= 6 (numbers are for example ) take the same splash dmg.

With this you cant shoot it in CQC because you will take YOUR DMG+ Enemy DMG and that means that you die faster than you kill.

The mass driver should be a specialist weapon, and at the moment it is not. It does far too much damage just like the flaylock did and it deserves to be put into it's intended role. Just yesterday some guy hit me with the basic mass driver and did 800 damage to kill me in one hit. I can't kill people in one hit with any other gun, save for the forge or a headshot with a sniper rifle or shotgun, all three of which require incredible accuracy to do. The mass driver does not.

And on a side note: I think there is a bigger problem with the MD than people realise. My counter to these people when I encounter them in CQC is to get very close, start cooking a grenade and then backing off to throw it at them at the last second. I have encountered many times that the grenade lands at their feet and blows up without doing any damage as they are firing the MD at my feet and killing me. Is this some kind of calculation bug?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

Are we seriously considering putting a safety measure on a clone weapon?!?

The same clones that we push though painful worm holes guaranteed to kill them in short order?

Gosh, maybe we should implement safety measures on grenades too. I mean, we can cook nades until they go off in our hands!
We shouldn't be able to release the spoon until we throw it, and it wouldn't arm until it was far enough away from us.

And then we could put foam on all the sharp corners in our merc quarters...

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

No safety. Bad idea. Unless of course you add a minimum distance to all weapons.

What is a grenade if it doesn't explode?

Also, **** with the AR before you **** with the MD.... Again.

The m203 has a min arming distance of 50 to 100 yards to keep inexperience soldiers from blowing themselves up.

This isn't Earth, so that really doesn't matter. Also, humans are soft, squishy things. We're in big ass suits of power armor that are a fair bit more resilient to damage than the gooey filling.

To keep things clear, I'm for a minimum safe distance, but 50-100 yards is insane.

I agree it is a game, but using a grenade launcher indoors? and spamming the enemy? and sorry that should be in feet and not yards

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

This is dumb, all it will do is prevent MD users from blowing themselves up.

It would act as a safety for the many times a blind blueberry walks in front of my launcher and takes one in the back of the head. It would also help guard against the times I'm backpedaling while shooting and accidentally clip a corner and hurt myself.

I suppose it would also help train new users to fire behind rushing opponents to kill them without getting hurt too.

In fact the more I think about it the more I like the idea.

CCP safety the round to go off just beyond the effective splash radius, that will make me happy and it seems it will please the MD haters too. Win-win!

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

For once, is it possible for you to ignore someone's call for a nerf, especially one not supported by the majority of the Dust community, and leave a weapon well enough alone?

The MD haters want a technical solution for their tactical shortcomings. They feel that they should be impervious to damage at every range and that their AR should dominate all other weapons in the game in every situation. The real problem here lies in many players' inability to properly fit themselves, their wreckless tactics, and their indequate skills. Above all, the MD user thrives on the ignorance and stupidity of his opponents, and it is especially unforgiving against bad players with low HP fittings.

I don't understand how this will make a difference, perhaps that is why it's being ignored?

The counter to removing self inflicted splash damage is surely to jump yourself as you fire, the solution offered by Cross will make no difference to this strategy.

The MD should be a situational area denial weapon, much like a sniper rifle is but at shorter ranges, namely: medium range.

I don't understand how this will make a difference, perhaps that is why it's being ignored?

The counter to removing self inflicted splash damage is surely to jump yourself as you fire, the solution offered by Cross will make no difference to this strategy.

The MD should be a situational area denial weapon, much like a sniper rifle is but at shorter ranges, namely: medium range.

If the safety was implemented, what do you think of the idea that a direct hit would still do damage but not explode if within the minimum arming distance?

How about all mass driver rounds have a timer, but if they hit someone else they explode on impact. Makes sense it is the future after all.

I think a better solution would be to get the "flat" splash damage fixed. If explosions were occurring in a sphere rather than a circle the CQC value of explosives would be reduced for any player who does not wish to commit suicide.

I'm also dubious about taking more choices out of the players hands, making it "you can't shoot within X range" is a lot more heavy handed than "if you shoot within X range you'll blow yourself up". If we're talking "real world" there's very little reason for an immortal clone solider to have the kind of safety feature described because their loss factor is all in ISK and sometimes it's more effective to take a loss of your own gear while destroying that of the hostile force, so for clones in disposable bodies it just doesn't make sense.

The other, and much bigger issue, is that the MD is a suppression weapon which has been under Uprising geared more and more towards direct/'slayer' combat. This is very much the wrong direction to be taking the MD. Making it more focused on direct/high damage and less on moderate/dispersion (aka splash) damage puts the weapon more and more into direct competition with other offerings in regards to its battlefield role. Dust needs more diversity not less, changes which make the MD function more like the AR in role are going to be bad changes, if they fill the same role or nearly the same role the direct competition will nearly always render one of them fundamentally inferior, replacing greater game diversity (as is the case with the more area denial MD of Chrome) with greater game imbalance (as will be the case if the MD is biased into be a direct/'slayer' primary weapon).

0.02 ISK
Cross

I don't understand what you're saying Cross.
Having the flat explosive system work more as a sphere would simply make the explosives work that much more effectively. The diameter of the explosion is still the same whether it's an actual radial sphere or not. That would in no way diminish it's cqc value.

The reason the MD is being used as a slayer weapon is because its stats allow for that.

This goes all the way back to Replication.

When the mass driver was first introduced it didn't have enough rounds in the chamber to kill anyone. 2 rounds. 3 rounds max. It was totally useless.
A bunch of us argued to simply give the damned thing the same damage as any basic locus grenade, but no, a bunch of people said it should have more rounds. That transformed the mass driver into the pain in the ass it is today.
Make it shoot grenades, cut the number of rounds back down to what CCP initially intended and BUMP UP it's damage to that of an actual grenade so that it can fulfill it's purpose; delivering 2 or 3 well-timed, well-placed grenades back to back. A support weapon.

400 HP damage grenades. But only shooting 2 or 3 at a time. It was never supposed to receive a clip size increase.
We all argued this waay back in closed beta.

Just wait until hit detection gets fixed. Shot gunners will do their job. The mass driver is fine except that explosions from the mass driver are in a flat 2d plane and not a 3d semi-sphere.

Yes exactly what I'm getting at. It's supposed to be mid to long range not short range and this seems like the best way to fix that without making it completely useless.

You could increase the minimum range to 6, 8, or 10 meters even. Perhaps it could vary between different mass driver types.

that'll happen when we get a decent scope.

Fixed it for you. But yes, we don't need this silly arming distance. If anything, there needs to be more risk than using it as an end all CQC weapon. I've rushed people in my Caldari shield suit with a shotgun, got right in their face, and all they had to do was spam the mass driver at their feet and jump to avoid the splash damage.

Fix explosions to be in a more of a D than a | pattern and we'll be fine.

I don't understand what you're saying Cross.
Having the flat explosive system work more as a sphere would simply make the explosives work that much more effectively. The diameter of the explosion is still the same whether it's an actual radial sphere or not. That would in no way diminish it's cqc value.

The reason the MD is being used as a slayer weapon is because its stats allow for that.

This goes all the way back to Replication.

When the mass driver was first introduced it didn't have enough rounds in the chamber to kill anyone. 2 rounds. 3 rounds max. It was totally useless.
A bunch of us argued to simply give the damned thing the same damage as any basic locus grenade, but no, a bunch of people said it should have more rounds. That transformed the mass driver into the pain in the ass it is today.
Make it shoot grenades, cut the number of rounds back down to what CCP initially intended and BUMP UP it's damage to that of an actual grenade so that it can fulfill it's purpose; delivering 2 or 3 well-timed, well-placed grenades back to back. A support weapon.

400 HP damage grenades. But only shooting 2 or 3 at a time. It was never supposed to receive a clip size increase.
We all argued this waay back in closed beta.

You really don't see how bad this can hurt us. Do me a favor, take out the flaylock. Use the flaylock and try to kill and see how hard it will be. Why? The radius was reduced too much so now it requires a direct hit kill which with this messed up system it wouldn't do shyt. So instead of people just staying away from you (smart ones), they will just rush you. You would have to try to get a direct hit with a grenade which is really dumb. Or change to your side arm vs a main weapons. Try taking out douv assault rifle with a side arm lawl. And if you're a logi, you're fked.

No, you just aim behind the rushing fool. The splash still catches him.

Now keep in mind I'm only accepting a safety equaling the splash radius, so that's a very short distance.
Safety ranges are designed to protect be user, not the target so it needn't be any greater than the splash radius.

The upshot is completely eliminating sef inflicted injuries and the downside is just needing to fire to the do side and behind a melee opponent.

No, you just aim behind the rushing fool. The splash still catches him.

Now keep in mind I'm only accepting a safety equaling the splash radius, so that's a very short distance.
Safety ranges are designed to protect be user, not the target so it needn't be any greater than the splash radius.

The upshot is completely eliminating sef inflicted injuries and the downside is just needing to fire to the do side and behind a melee opponent.

id rather have the mass drivers rof reduced...

just a little to where it doesnt fire so quickly...

slower rof because to many ppl useit like a shot gun..

slower rof will fix this prob...

breach ar is no diffrent from the reg ar....


pretty much the same overall in cqc...

I don't understand what you're saying Cross.
Having the flat explosive system work more as a sphere would simply make the explosives work that much more effectively. The diameter of the explosion is still the same whether it's an actual radial sphere or not. That would in no way diminish it's cqc value.

The reason the MD is being used as a slayer weapon is because its stats allow for that.

This goes all the way back to Replication.

When the mass driver was first introduced it didn't have enough rounds in the chamber to kill anyone. 2 rounds. 3 rounds max. It was totally useless.
A bunch of us argued to simply give the damned thing the same damage as any basic locus grenade, but no, a bunch of people said it should have more rounds. That transformed the mass driver into the pain in the ass it is today.
Make it shoot grenades, cut the number of rounds back down to what CCP initially intended and BUMP UP it's damage to that of an actual grenade so that it can fulfill it's purpose; delivering 2 or 3 well-timed, well-placed grenades back to back. A support weapon.

400 HP damage grenades. But only shooting 2 or 3 at a time. It was never supposed to receive a clip size increase.
We all argued this waay back in closed beta.

"Too good in CQC" generally means "I can't dance with it like I can an AR".

Now that holds true for any splash weapon so the argument really boils down to "Nerf the **** out of it until my AR is better than it in CQC".

That is followed by any number of "minor adjustments" that are designed to ompletely neuter the the weapon.

Thank you for both the information and the further look into the matter.
Armed with this new info I now need to pull together a testing protocol for how those pesky scouts (and some Cal suits) are capable of using AoE weapons against me at close range without taking visible health damage themselves (up to this point I was sure it was circle vs sphere related which anecdotally seemed to fit the facts)

Again, thanks for the update
Cross

Recent as of 8/11/2013


According to CCP Wolfman sphere damage is already in the game, this does not remotely match my in game observations and tests as I've seen scouts and some Cal suits 'bunny hop over the damage' as recently as this 2x SP event.
Something is clearly missing from the puzzle here and while we wait for CCP to give it another look I"m going to try some testing of my own and invite others to do the same.

Regardless of these tests or their results the options presented by the OP still have the mechanical and exploit flaws I've listed elsewhere. Speaking as someone who does not "just spam it at close range" I can firmly say that the OP is a flawed method which does not solve for the issues presented. For the sake of completeness however I must also state that if the CCP quote above is fully accurate and no AoE related bugs are present then my prior suggestions also do not solve for the issues presented.

Time to do more testing, and while I'm at it I'll reiterate my request for definitions and details as posted above in #154

~Cross

By GÇ£too good in CQCGÇ¥ I mean that if I'm running around a corner and there just happens to be a guy with a mass driver, I'm screwed even in my proto suit. If I close the gap to suicidal levels for that player, then I can't keep my aim no matter what I'm using and hopefully I don't need to tell you that the problem is not remotely related to my skill at aiming. If I try and run away back around the corner, not only can he still hit me by shooting the floor where I was, but the user of the MD doesn't have to aim much to kill me in two or three shots at the optimal range of whatever weapon I'm holding (yes it's usually the AR but that still requires careful aiming)..

Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-)

On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'.

We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better.

The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away.

Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion.

More related info

That's good news, and thanks for your reply earlier. As for what I meant by GÇ£all situationsGÇ¥ I mean pretty much how you explained it. The mass driver simply does too well in situations it is not supposed to be in and considering there is no damage falloff, an MD can kill someone very easily at range with much less accuracy than is required from the AR, SCR or sniper rifle.

As for knowing about the use of a mass driver, my corp mate specced into them way back and I asked if he would pick it up again. He constantly did well with it, watching people just jump ten feet in the air was funny but it was just cheap and too easy. He was rounding corners and taking guys out in CQC no problem and I've only seen him die to his own MD twice. We stopped using it because it just wasn't as fun or tactical as we both like.

Now for that 800 damage, it seems like that is exactly what must have occured, the guy got behind me for a split second and even though the explosion appeared at my feet when I was facing the guy, the various issue with the game compounded together in what ultimately was a very lucky shot for the guy.

I still think that the idea stated in the OP will keep the MD dangerous, but relegate it solely to the use of area denial, sitting behind the frontline being like a mortar. You wouldn't put infantry behind a mortar emplacement would you?

Edit: It should be up to the skill of the MD user to take out enemies at range before they reach the null range where charges don't detonate as opposed to what we have currently which is that MD's can be used at any range below sniper.

That's good news, and thanks for your reply earlier. As for what I meant by GÇ£all situationsGÇ¥ I mean pretty much how you explained it. The mass driver simply does too well in situations it is not supposed to be in and considering there is no damage falloff, an MD can kill someone very easily at range with much less accuracy than is required from the AR, SCR or sniper rifle.

As for knowing about the use of a mass driver, my corp mate specced into them way back and I asked if he would pick it up again. He constantly did well with it, watching people just jump ten feet in the air was funny but it was just cheap and too easy. He was rounding corners and taking guys out in CQC no problem and I've only seen him die to his own MD twice. We stopped using it because it just wasn't as fun or tactical as we both like.

Now for that 800 damage, it seems like that is exactly what must have occured, the guy got behind me for a split second and even though the explosion appeared at my feet when I was facing the guy, the various issue with the game compounded together in what ultimately was a very lucky shot for the guy.

I still think that the idea stated in the OP will keep the MD dangerous, but relegate it solely to the use of area denial, sitting behind the frontline being like a mortar. You wouldn't put infantry behind a mortar emplacement would you?

Edit: It should be up to the skill of the MD user to take out enemies at range before they reach the null range where charges don't detonate as opposed to what we have currently which is that MD's can be used at any range below sniper.

Again how do you expect the Breach MD to compete with this change? And the Assault MD is fine the way it is, it still a terrible weapon in CQC. Please consider other varients before making the change, or at least specify which variant you want to change instead of a complete nerf across the board.

The other variants would have different minimum arming distances. Standard has an arm distance of 10 meters, assault has 8, breach has 5. Easy.

No, that's overly complicated for how fast paced Dust is.

Re-read, I made an edit. :) Dust is also only fast paced in CQC, the mass driver doesn't belong there.

I already did, and I still don't like the idea. This wasn't the first time it was suggested and this isn't the first time I didn't like it.

Well unfortunately, a simple dislike of the idea isn't really going to do anything is it. The fact of the matter is that the MD is being used too frequently in close quarters engagements and is being used as an assault weapon but barely being used as an area denial weapon. This change would fix that problem rather neatly without nerfing the mass driver into oblivion. Right now the MD is taking the role of shotgun, assault rifle and itself, to which there is very little counter other than another mass driver or sniper rifle.

That's not to say that you can't kill an MD user at all with only these weapons, but in CQC I should not be losing to what essentially boils down to grenade spam.

Well unfortunately, a simple dislike of the idea isn't really going to do anything is it. The fact of the matter is that the MD is being used too frequently in close quarters engagements and is being used as an assault weapon but barely being used as an area denial weapon. This change would fix that problem rather neatly without nerfing the mass driver into oblivion. Right now the MD is taking the role of shotgun, assault rifle and itself, to which there is very little counter other than another mass driver or sniper rifle.

That's not to say that you can't kill an MD user at all with only these weapons, but in CQC I should not be losing to what essentially boils down to grenade spam.

AR already has more DPS than the MD, and is more effective at all ranges. AR users need to stop running head on like lemmings and put some distance between themselves and a MD being used in CQC- common sense. Hit detection is killing the shotgun, which is actually a good hard counter to the MD- I'd rather see hit detection being fixed before anything else. Also, get away from the term "assault weapon" a weapon is a weapon. You pull the trigger and try to kill people with it. If a bunch of people are putting 3 levels into the MD and running around with the EXO-5 like it's a shotgun, (which is the real issue) find a weakness instead of crying on the forums.

Well unfortunately, a simple dislike of the idea isn't really going to do anything is it. The fact of the matter is that the MD is being used too frequently in close quarters engagements and is being used as an assault weapon but barely being used as an area denial weapon. This change would fix that problem rather neatly without nerfing the mass driver into oblivion. Right now the MD is taking the role of shotgun, assault rifle and itself, to which there is very little counter other than another mass driver or sniper rifle.

That's not to say that you can't kill an MD user at all with only these weapons, but in CQC I should not be losing to what essentially boils down to grenade spam.

Two notes before a more substanentive response later.

#1 - If anyone has posted a response to my "the suggestion in the OP can't actually be mechanically viable" points I have yet to see it, can someone respond to this aspect or point me to a direct response?

#2 - Tonight I killed a Prototype Cal Logi with a Prototype Mass Driver in CQC using my 100% BPO fitting, and I did so with 40% shields remaining at the end of the battle. I will admit this is a bit above the arc of my average but it's not strikingly unusual... in the same game in the same suit I also caused 4 proto suited MD users to suicide when fighting me in low-mid/CQC ranges, only two of which managed to take me with them.

End of match tally, my free suit deaths 2, proto MD+Proto suit kills 5. I'll keep an eye on my MD deaths and kills in the future but so far my 'Exile' AR + BPO fit laughs in the face of proto MDs+proto suits.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Ok dokey...

In the case of a direct hit only direct damage is applied to the target. Splash is not applied to the target but will be applied to any others that happen to be in range.

A headshot modifier would apply if the explosion hits your head. A series of checks are done to different body parts and splash is applied to the first one it hits (typically not the head). I would need to check on vehicles, I'm not sure how splash is applied to the regular body Vs weak spots.

And now a "memo" from the desk of CCP Wolfman

The changes would do nothing but nerf the other variants. The changes you purposed would completely take away any reason to use the Breach MD over a shotgun, which is superior in almost every way RIGHT NOW. You will completely take away the Assault's ability to kill anything within 10 meters before you die yourself, which it is already struggling to do RIGHT NOW.

Except that the shotgun requires the shot to be 100% on target...

Two notes before a more substanentive response later.

#1 - If anyone has posted a response to my "the suggestion in the OP can't actually be mechanically viable" points I have yet to see it, can someone respond to this aspect or point me to a direct response?

#2 - Tonight I killed a Prototype Cal Logi with a Prototype Mass Driver in CQC using my 100% BPO fitting, and I did so with 40% shields remaining at the end of the battle. I will admit this is a bit above the arc of my average but it's not strikingly unusual... in the same game in the same suit I also caused 4 proto suited MD users to suicide when fighting me in low-mid/CQC ranges, only two of which managed to take me with them.

End of match tally, my free suit deaths 2, proto MD+Proto suit kills 5. I'll keep an eye on my MD deaths and kills in the future but so far my 'Exile' AR + BPO fit laughs in the face of proto MDs+proto suits.

0.02 ISK
Cross

The changes would do nothing but nerf the other variants. The changes you purposed would completely take away any reason to use the Breach MD over a shotgun, which is superior in almost every way RIGHT NOW. You will completely take away the Assault's ability to kill anything within 10 meters before you die yourself, which it is already struggling to do RIGHT NOW.

He's saying he killed proto MD users with his ****-fit and what may have been an Exile.

Again its been the same since 1.1. We are in 1.3 nobody complained now they complain about it because more people use it now? That's pathetic. It's fine where it is. It has risk using it in cqc. You want to remove that and make have to rely on a side arm close up? ....ha yet the assault rifle can hip fire super good?

The point is it is not the same since 1.1, because when the fixed the issue with splash damage not being properly dispersed due to small obstacles the weapon became considerably more effective, especially at close range. No explosive grenade launcher is suppose to be used as a CQC weapon. That is ludicrous.

I see where this QQ is going with the Mass Driver, and I think that a reduction in splash or direct explosive damage will ruin its effectiveness as an area denial weapon. I don't want that because I feel it is a capability that is needed in the game. Implementation of a minimum arming distance does not limit that capability. It only prevents players from spamming explosive projectiles in close quarters. A role that was probably never intended for the Mass Driver.

Anyone who is complaining about not being able to use the Mass Driver in close quarters sounds like a fool. It is a support weapon with a specific role in battle. You should be carrying a sidearm to compensate for the weapon's lack of close quarters capability, just like Snipers, Laser Riflemen and A/V Gunners do. If you are Logistics (like me) then you should be moving with another player that can provide you close quarters support....just like you are providing them with area suppression support.

You know the weapon mechanics are broken when you see Squads of players from the same team using a Mass Driver. Lightbulb moment.

So this is not really a nerf...it is just common sense. There is no real-world grenade launcher out there that does not implement minimum arming distance for the projectile. Just like the primary weapon used by most soldiers of every army is some type of assault rifle, which will always make it the most predominant weapon in warfare.

Which MD are they using? How frequent is this happening? Full squads are using ARs alot more than MDs, nerf them too? All you're doing is just making broad assumptions, and screaming nerf everything based on those assumptions. All you are doing is nerfing 2 variants already working as intended(well 1 is UP) because of 1 variant that is debatably working as intended. Carrying a side-arm patches up every weapon in the game, traveling along with a squad patches up every weapon in the game, this has absolutely nothing to do with the MD and how it should operate.

Why are so many counters to this proposal centered around the use of the Assault Rifle...THAT is something that has absolutely nothing to do with how the Mass Driver should operate. Assault Rifles are going to always be the predominate weapon, not because they are OP but because that is how Infantry Combat works. Pretty sure it was the weapon of choice in my Infantry Line Company.

And I love how people keep calling this a nerf, which it's not. This change would have no impact on splash damage or direct damage. It just eliminates a mechanic that makes absolutely no sense in Infantry Combat...the use of Explosive Projectiles in close quarters.

Anyone who continues to argue that should continue to be allowed sounds like a fool.

Idea from RydogV in another mass driver *****-a-thon thread:



Basically the MD round won't "explode" within the minimum distance and will only deal direct damage to someone if the round hits them. Seems like an idea that should have been in the game already.

I'd say the minimum distance should be 5 meters since that's the highest blast radius of the weapon but perhaps it could be even further. What do you all think?

And I love how people keep calling this a nerf, which it's not. This change would have no impact on splash damage or direct damage. It just eliminates a mechanic that makes absolutely no sense in Infantry Combat...the use of Explosive Projectiles in close quarters.

Why are so many counters to this proposal centered around the use of the Assault Rifle...THAT is something that has absolutely nothing to do with how the Mass Driver should operate. Assault Rifles are going to always be the predominate weapon, not because they are OP but because that is how Infantry Combat works. Pretty sure it was the weapon of choice in my Infantry Line Company.

And I love how people keep calling this a nerf, which it's not. This change would have no impact on splash damage or direct damage. It just eliminates a mechanic that makes absolutely no sense in Infantry Combat...the use of Explosive Projectiles in close quarters.

Anyone who continues to argue that should continue to be allowed sounds like a fool.

You've yet to explain why such a change is needed for the variants that are already working as intended. All of this again is based on one variant. Why not make it so that Laser or Sniper Rifles are unable to fire at enemies within 5-10 meters? It makes no sense to nerf a weapon that way, all that is needed is splash being detected on Standard like the Assault in CQC. There situational CQC weapon. Go further and swap the RoF of the Standard and Breach and you have balanced weapon.

I can't support this idea any more. Nothing confuses me more than getting killed by a MD at < 5m and not having the other guy die as well. A minimum arming distance would still reward accuracy in CQC ranges while reducing the noob-tube grief surrounding the weapon.

And just for the record...I love the concept of a Mass Driver as an area suppression system. I think it is a viable and valuable resource on the battlefield....which is why I am 100% AGAINST the direct and splash damage being lowered in any way. To me that ruins the weapon.

But I refuse to use the weapon with the current physical mechanics...because in a word they are: DUMB

You know the weapon mechanics are broken when you see Squads of players from the same team using a Mass Driver. Lightbulb moment.

So this is not really a nerf...it is just common sense. There is no real-world grenade launcher out there that does not implement minimum arming distance for the projectile. Just like the primary weapon used by most soldiers of every army is some type of assault rifle, which will always make it the most predominant weapon in warfare.