That was not a suggestion that the MD only shoots 5 meters and does not explode if that's what you're thinking.

The MD would perform exactly as it does now except that the round won't explode unless it's passed 5 meters. Within that 5 meters it will only deal direct damage if it hits someone.

Again its been the same since 1.1. We are in 1.3 nobody complained now they complain about it because more people use it now? That's pathetic. It's fine where it is. It has risk using it in cqc. You want to remove that and make have to rely on a side arm close up? ....ha yet the assault rifle can hip fire super good?

Futuristic game. Drop suits, needles that bring back the dead etc. So your point is?
You're still ignoring many factors about the mass driver that I've mention countless times. I really don't waste my time to rewrite them on my phone. AREA Denial gun. Meaning gtfo. Add a safety thst wont allow you to use your gun close up is dumb and instead of being a gun that tells you to gtfo, it'll be rush rush.

I'm a idiot? Ha. Why don't smart players rush people with a massive driver? Because they know the weapon will kill them. Add the safety and even the bad players will realize that the gun has a "dead zone" and they will rush you much easier. Doesn't matter how good you are or not . If your a good player you can take out the current mass driver user by keeping your distance. I've even rushed in with a minja scout that uses the nova knife and smg as a main weapon and took him out. Making the gun have a dead zone isn't balanced because it'll be the only weapon that has one. Sorry if players like you aren't good enough to take out a mass driver at a distance. I do it all the time, I don't fight mass driver vs mass driver if I die. I'll get my tac ar and snipe him with it. Not that hard. And people saying that the mass driver is being used as a shotgun lawl. They're somewhat right but they don't understand that it's a risky move to do. You'll end up killing yourself if you go crazy spamming. Mass driver users carry flux. Guess what their same trick works both ways. Flux them as well or throw a grenade. I throw flux and use a smg or just the gek ar. So you're the idiot for not realizing how bad this potential nerf can be. If they do make it, they have to fix the hit detection. Or it will have the same problem that the flay lock has right now. It's very hard to get direct hits and it isn't because of skill but because of poor game design. I won't take the risk of my hits not registering because the devs didn't fix it. Being forced to do direct his with a grenade launcher is stupid. Grenades kill by the shock waves it creates. Making it do direct hits is almost like having a bullet. If you want direct hits make it so in cqc it shoots straight like a bullet and if it hits you you're dead. Why?
A direct hit with a grenade is instant death. Splash you can survive and counter. You can't just take away a ability of the gun with out adding one. Wouldn't go too well. It's like removing the hip fire of a assault rifle in cqc. Basically making the assault rifle aim harder like a tac ar in cqc. Not so balanced.

Cant belive that Cross reply is being ignored. In that reply is the only solution viable to not make MD a useless weapon

The only problem with the MD is the Fuking CAL.Suit (logi or ass dosent matter) and the Shoot while jumping (to avoid all splash)

Change the splash dmg calc to flat from Sphere and just watch the CQC noob-spammer kill themself.

That's sad. That tank stood still long enough for him to do that. That isn't the mass driver fault its the tanks. It's a kill everything no matter the distance? Um, that pretty much sounds like the assault rifle to me. I use it to pick off snipers just saying. At least the mass driver requires more work or more of a thought to be able to take out people at a distance unlike the assault rifle or better yet the tactical assault riffle which has a great range. At least the mass driver requires you think focus on elevation, distance, terrain (hills or flat, height of target etc) just saying. That whole statement is just proved to be bad
Because the simple fact that:
1: the tanks stood still for a while, I bet it wasn't only him attacking it.
2: the it kills everything no matter what the distance sounds more like the assault rifle instead of the mass driver
3: the hit detection is messed up, hit boxes are messed up and the aim assist is off right now. The assault rifle is effected by hit detection, because it requires direct hits and it's still very fking accurate. Imagine how much better it'll be once this is fixed. Ha and people already complain about it

You dont understand simply because you dont ever bother try the MD or just pay attention to the spamming noob.
Let's go with the point.

1) No,it's not a sniper rifle. Area Denial mean " no, you can fukin walk freely in that area." and "no you can fukin take that little crate as a cover" OR " no, you cant walk close together like a wolf pack or like a Greek Oplitia formation"
A sniper rifle have ALL other purpose on the battlefield (that is not paddle KDR ) and if you cant see the difference between the two weapon than you have a little problem regarding game balance

so let's translate this in " MD for Dummies" : You give the Enemy height advantage? You die. You walk close with your squad? You die. You seek cover behind a little obj? you die.

And now let's try to explain WHY Cross hit the core problem and why ignoring something that you dont understand it's bad for ya ( RIP CARLIN)

They main complain of people is that they are spamming the MD in CQC.
But the splash dmg that kill you must have killed the user too...... so what's Happen? Lets do some MATH with the help of X-Y


SUPPOSE you shoot the MD at your feet the MD do 184 DMG on X axis for (let's make an example) 4 meters. The point of impact is Y=0
The flat explosion dmg calc means that IF YOU ARE at Y=1-2-3-4-5-6 you avoid all the self inflicted spash DMG.
WHat do we have if we change this?

Suppose you have s sphere DMG where ALL object inside X=4 and Y= 6 (numbers are for example ) take the same splash dmg.

With this you cant shoot it in CQC because you will take YOUR DMG+ Enemy DMG and that means that you die faster than you kill.

Recent as of 8/11/2013


According to CCP Wolfman sphere damage is already in the game, this does not remotely match my in game observations and tests as I've seen scouts and some Cal suits 'bunny hop over the damage' as recently as this 2x SP event.
Something is clearly missing from the puzzle here and while we wait for CCP to give it another look I"m going to try some testing of my own and invite others to do the same.

Regardless of these tests or their results the options presented by the OP still have the mechanical and exploit flaws I've listed elsewhere. Speaking as someone who does not "just spam it at close range" I can firmly say that the OP is a flawed method which does not solve for the issues presented. For the sake of completeness however I must also state that if the CCP quote above is fully accurate and no AoE related bugs are present then my prior suggestions also do not solve for the issues presented.

Time to do more testing, and while I'm at it I'll reiterate my request for definitions and details as posted above in #154

~Cross

More related info

Again how do you expect the Breach MD to compete with this change? And the Assault MD is fine the way it is, it still a terrible weapon in CQC. Please consider other varients before making the change, or at least specify which variant you want to change instead of a complete nerf across the board.

No, that's overly complicated for how fast paced Dust is.

I already did, and I still don't like the idea. This wasn't the first time it was suggested and this isn't the first time I didn't like it.

AR already has more DPS than the MD, and is more effective at all ranges. AR users need to stop running head on like lemmings and put some distance between themselves and a MD being used in CQC- common sense. Hit detection is killing the shotgun, which is actually a good hard counter to the MD- I'd rather see hit detection being fixed before anything else. Also, get away from the term "assault weapon" a weapon is a weapon. You pull the trigger and try to kill people with it. If a bunch of people are putting 3 levels into the MD and running around with the EXO-5 like it's a shotgun, (which is the real issue) find a weakness instead of crying on the forums.

And now a "memo" from the desk of CCP Wolfman

The changes would do nothing but nerf the other variants. The changes you purposed would completely take away any reason to use the Breach MD over a shotgun, which is superior in almost every way RIGHT NOW. You will completely take away the Assault's ability to kill anything within 10 meters before you die yourself, which it is already struggling to do RIGHT NOW.

It's not good enough for the community. They want it nerfed to the ground

Battlefield and ArmA 1-3 as well IIRC.

It's funny how controversial this suggestion is. You got one group calling it, "nerfing the MD into the ground," another group saying it, "takes away risk of death at close range [a buff]," and then the ones who think it's a pretty good idea.

Edit: I don't want to see the MD nerfed to the ground. I see this as a compromise because the main complaints about the MD seem to be coming from it's use as a close range weapon and maybe that's not what it was meant for. So how about we limit it's explosive damage at close range but not it's direct damage and leave all the other stats alone. That wouldn't bother me personally.

But I'm also ok with leaving it the way it is now. For all we know, after 1.4 it may need a buff. I think right now with aiming as bad as it is people are turning to the MD just for the splash. If aiming gets significantly improved, the MD might not look so OP.

So either way is fine with me. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Isn't that the point? Deny the area. IN or wherever you're shooting at. Seriously what's the big deal? Hit detection will be fixed. People will forget about the mass driver and say the shotgun is op because it'll actually work. Assault rifle will get aim assist. Making the gun handicapped near its user is defeating the purpose. Once the shotgun gets fixed people could start using that as a counter against mass driver. I've actually stopped using the mass driver a lot. because I got tired of running out of ammo. So I've been using my assault rifle more often again or my minja scout with smg. But I've been able to counter it in cqc because I use
this moron thing called tactics. I don't blindly rush him. I out live his ammo and I take him out with a smg
And I'm not even that good but I think..... just sayin wait until 1.4. Aim assist for assault rifle lawl and shotguns will be called OP. I'll be using my dren shotgun for sure lol

Aw how rude....
As for tactics its simple. Think about how the gun works. It has 6 rounds and a slow rof. Forcing the user to use it in cqc is risky in untrained hands because it can kill the user. So it adds some risk. I personally counter it with a smg and flux if I'm in a scout suit. IM always on the move because standing in a group is how the mass driver works better. Also since the mass driver is low on ammo you have to make every shot count. People say it's spamming but honestly assault rifles spam lol. Also you can melt a mass driver user with a assault rifle by keeping your distance or gaining a height advantage which isn't hard to do. I do it all the time because I know how the gun works and trust me it has its draw backs that people regularly ignore. I don't have any draw backs with my assault rifle which is why I have a level 4 assault rifle and level 3 mass driver. Because the assault rifle can be used in any given situation. The mass driver can't, it takes more effort believe it or not because anything can make you either shoot or not. Elevation, distance, terrain (like bumpy hills) possible cover etc. The assault rifle you don't have to worry about that it's good at every distance. Every height. Even in cqc its good. I used it to take out snipers! Yes snipers. How do you balance a aerial of denial weapon by making it handicapped near it? If people rush you it wouldn't be denying the area. Instead of people running away they will rush because they can out run the guns effective range. For example tanks. You don't see people rushing tanks (well I seen some assault rifle users try). A tank is the king of area denial. So why should you rush a mass driver. ...

This argument is invalid. Mass drivers are support weaponry like a hmg. We don't usually go lone wolf because it isn't meant to be unless in cqc. We pick off what the assault rifle on our team or squad attacked. You just said you go lone wolf. This whole post seems like a nerf team work lol. Again you can't rush in if a mass driver is there unless you're skilled. I'm not that skilled but I manage to take Em out. All I see is a an excuse to nerf a gun that is working as intended. You just said you like to lone wolf which in fact is a bad idea in this game because the game is based upon team work. Hence support weaponry and support roles...
Mass driver is fine and applying a arming distance will render it useless as a support because people would just rush the user. And please don't even say "direct damage"... it's a grenade. It should kill by splash.

Yes, this proposal is counterintuitive to actual support play. I have to be close to my squad to repair them, supply them, and revive them. How exactly would I accomplish this when my weapon of choice only becomes lethal from 10m-15m away?

The MD is both an area denial and breach weapon. Improve your tactics and situational awareness, equip yourself properly, and most of all...GET OVER IT.

Oh please. Don't give that "your not doing job talk" when I bet you don't. I support the team by taking out reds. That's my job. I take over a spot and clear it so my team can get their act straight. It takes one red to to change the terms on the game. One red to place a up link and we would lose. Mass driver is made to counter that. It's fine the way it is stop being so ignorant and stop trying to avoid the fact that you have to change your play style of aim and click