|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4071
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 06:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd only accept this if we got the range hard cap back. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4081
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 22:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is seriously a terrible idea. Just bring back the old arc trajectory physics from Chrome. Slower rounds and a drastic dropoff will force players to fight at a distance and have to arc the muzzle upwards, making the weapon clumsy to use in CQC. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4081
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 13:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
*sigh* Guess I should just spend my SP on ARs and the Caldari Assault and pretend to have fun... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4082
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 13:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Cosgar wrote:*sigh* Guess I should just spend my SP on ARs and the Caldari Assault and pretend to have fun... At least the assault rifle will work for cqc mid to long distance. At least it can hip fire very well. Look at the bright side, won't ever get nerfed and they're adding new variations They'll probably be able to kill HAV too with under-barrel swarm launchers. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4100
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 16:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Jastad wrote: Cant belive that Cross reply is being ignored. In that reply is the only solution viable to not make MD a useless weapon
The only problem with the MD is the Fuking CAL.Suit (logi or ass dosent matter) and the Shoot while jumping (to avoid all splash)
Change the splash dmg calc to flat from Sphere and just watch the CQC noob-spammer kill themself.
I don't understand how this will make a difference, perhaps that is why it's being ignored? The counter to removing self inflicted splash damage is surely to jump yourself as you fire, the solution offered by Cross will make no difference to this strategy. The MD should be a situational area denial weapon, much like a sniper rifle is but at shorter ranges, namely: medium range. You don't understand because maybe you're not using the MD? What people are doing is getting level 3 and using the EXO-5 with diminished splash radius so they can spam it in CQC while bunny hopping to avoid the blast radius. It's a silly tactic, but it's actually working. I like Cross's idea because it addresses the core issue with people spamming the MD instead of this convoluted mechanic being discussed that's no better than putting an iron sight on a laser. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4101
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 00:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:
I don't understand what you're saying Cross. Having the flat explosive system work more as a sphere would simply make the explosives work that much more effectively. The diameter of the explosion is still the same whether it's an actual radial sphere or not. That would in no way diminish it's cqc value.
The reason the MD is being used as a slayer weapon is because its stats allow for that.
This goes all the way back to Replication.
When the mass driver was first introduced it didn't have enough rounds in the chamber to kill anyone. 2 rounds. 3 rounds max. It was totally useless. A bunch of us argued to simply give the damned thing the same damage as any basic locus grenade, but no, a bunch of people said it should have more rounds. That transformed the mass driver into the pain in the ass it is today. Make it shoot grenades, cut the number of rounds back down to what CCP initially intended and BUMP UP it's damage to that of an actual grenade so that it can fulfill it's purpose; delivering 2 or 3 well-timed, well-placed grenades back to back. A support weapon.
400 HP damage grenades. But only shooting 2 or 3 at a time. It was never supposed to receive a clip size increase. We all argued this waay back in closed beta.
Can we drop this whole complaining about the MD being a slayer weapon thing? It's a gun, it's supposed to kill, that shouldn't be an issue. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4107
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 02:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:id rather have the mass drivers rof reduced...
just a little to where it doesnt fire so quickly... If that were to happen, base damage needs to be buffed to compensate. Would you rather have a chance to run after 3 MD hits or 2? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4107
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 02:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:slower rof because to many ppl useit like a shot gun..
slower rof will fix this prob... RoF affects DPS. Use the breach AR and see how effective that is. Go ahead, I'll wait... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4107
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 02:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:breach ar is no diffrent from the reg ar....
pretty much the same overall in cqc... Then why does everyone stick with the standard AR variant? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4144
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 02:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
RINON114 wrote: The other variants would have different minimum arming distances. Standard has an arm distance of 10 meters, assault has 8, breach has 5. Easy.
No, that's overly complicated for how fast paced Dust is. |
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
4148
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 02:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Cosgar wrote:RINON114 wrote: The other variants would have different minimum arming distances. Standard has an arm distance of 10 meters, assault has 8, breach has 5. Easy.
No, that's overly complicated for how fast paced Dust is. Re-read, I made an edit. :) Dust is also only fast paced in CQC, the mass driver doesn't belong there. I already did, and I still don't like the idea. This wasn't the first time it was suggested and this isn't the first time I didn't like it. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4152
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 03:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Cosgar wrote:RINON114 wrote:Cosgar wrote:RINON114 wrote: The other variants would have different minimum arming distances. Standard has an arm distance of 10 meters, assault has 8, breach has 5. Easy.
No, that's overly complicated for how fast paced Dust is. Re-read, I made an edit. :) Dust is also only fast paced in CQC, the mass driver doesn't belong there. I already did, and I still don't like the idea. This wasn't the first time it was suggested and this isn't the first time I didn't like it. Well unfortunately, a simple dislike of the idea isn't really going to do anything is it. The fact of the matter is that the MD is being used too frequently in close quarters engagements and is being used as an assault weapon but barely being used as an area denial weapon. This change would fix that problem rather neatly without nerfing the mass driver into oblivion. Right now the MD is taking the role of shotgun, assault rifle and itself, to which there is very little counter other than another mass driver or sniper rifle. That's not to say that you can't kill an MD user at all with only these weapons, but in CQC I should not be losing to what essentially boils down to grenade spam. AR already has more DPS than the MD, and is more effective at all ranges. AR users need to stop running head on like lemmings and put some distance between themselves and a MD being used in CQC- common sense. Hit detection is killing the shotgun, which is actually a good hard counter to the MD- I'd rather see hit detection being fixed before anything else. Also, get away from the term "assault weapon" a weapon is a weapon. You pull the trigger and try to kill people with it. If a bunch of people are putting 3 levels into the MD and running around with the EXO-5 like it's a shotgun, (which is the real issue) find a weakness instead of crying on the forums. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4173
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
RydogV wrote:And just for the record...I love the concept of a Mass Driver as an area suppression system. I think it is a viable and valuable resource on the battlefield....which is why I am 100% AGAINST the direct and splash damage being lowered in any way. To me that ruins the weapon.
But I refuse to use the weapon with the current physical mechanics...because in a word they are: DUMB I mentioned this earlier and of course it got ignored: What if they revert the grenade physics back to Chromosone? Slower velocity and a more drastic falloff would force people to stop trying to use it in CQC. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4173
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Cosgar wrote:RydogV wrote:And just for the record...I love the concept of a Mass Driver as an area suppression system. I think it is a viable and valuable resource on the battlefield....which is why I am 100% AGAINST the direct and splash damage being lowered in any way. To me that ruins the weapon.
But I refuse to use the weapon with the current physical mechanics...because in a word they are: DUMB I mentioned this earlier and of course it got ignored: What if they revert the grenade physics back to Chromosone? Slower velocity and a more drastic falloff would force people to stop trying to use it in CQC. I suggested these options in other threads when the QQ for Mass Drivers began. They were no more welcomed than this idea. After discussing it with other Corp members the idea of minimum arming distance seemed to make more sense. Personally, I think it's the right solution for this particular weapon and will have less impact on it's use by more players. Like I said...I don't want the weapon to disappear from the battlefield, I just want it to make sense. The majority of MD users have been asking for the old physics since they were changed in Uprising. The devs basically tried to fix something that wasn't broken. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4174
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Cross Atu wrote:RydogV wrote:You know the weapon mechanics are broken when you see Squads of players from the same team using a Mass Driver. Lightbulb moment. This is not a proper method for assessing balance. By that reasoning the entire AR line is #1 on the chopping block and the militia/standard gear of all kinds is in line for a nerf much more than the higher meta varations. Seeing a specific weapon, or even more so weapon sub-type, commonly on the field can certainly call enough attention to be worth testing but it is not, in and of itself, a specific indication of any mechanical flaw with the weapon in question. Quote: So this is not really a nerf...it is just common sense. There is no real-world grenade launcher out there that does not implement minimum arming distance for the projectile. Just like the primary weapon used by most soldiers of every army is some type of assault rifle, which will always make it the most predominant weapon in warfare.
"Real world" is an incredibly improper metric to advise game balance. Combat and weapons are NOT balanced in the real world and being as how balance is vital to robust, enjoyable, game play that pushes "real world" motivations into the category of role play, i.e. "fine for amusement bad for mechanics". Further, and I've raised this point within the thread before, even if we look at "real world" methods the world in question must be the universe of New Eden not 2013 Earth. Immortal Clones who will willingly step through blackhole portals which are excruciating and cause cancer won't care at all if they blow themselves and their 7k ISK fitting to pieces so long as they take 40k+ enemy assets with them. That immortal merc is going to respawn in a new clone on the same battlefield with a smirk under his/her helmet and a higher payday waiting at the end of the battle. There is no logical lore (aka "real world) reason for the weaponry of clone soldiers to contain safeties.... in fact if it did we wouldn't have weapons with overheat (unless the presumption is that overheat somehow [i]is] the safety and highly advance space faring cultures just can't be bothered to do one right... in which case we're back to the concept of having none at all). Lastly, call it what you will, any change to the mechanics of a piece of gear which makes it less effective is a nerf, and change which makes it more effective is a buff. The exception to this is that some vicarious effects resulting from larger changes such as bug fixes are just that, fixes to mechanics that are not working as intended. Examples: Fixing the hit detection is not a nerf or buff to any weapon/armor but it may expose current imbalances which need addressed. Fine tuning the efficiency profile for explosive weapons most certainly is a nerf to all of them but it is a nerf that is called for to refine/improve overall game balance. Third point at the risk of repeating myself, I still haven't seen an explanation of how any system like the one suggested in the OP could even theoretically be implemented and function. How would it work "under the hood" within the mechanics of the game? I'm not saying it's impossible, I don't know all the ins and outs of the engine enough to say that, but I am saying based on what I do understand such a mechanic simply does not seem viable, from a purely functional perspective leaving questions of game balance completely aside. 0.02 ISK Cross The reference to a whole Squad of Mass Driver users was noted to show how a weapon has moved outside its intended role. Assault Rifles are general purpose weapons that one would expect to see predominate in any Squad. And I am not buying any argument that tries to place diversity above sensible mechanics. Sorry...I do not value diversity as much as others. Call it personal preference. I realize that bringing real world into game world is not always the best way to make a point. Real world, game world...whatever....classifying a Grenade Launcher as a CQB weapon makes zero sense. As for 'under the hood'. Most shooters I have ever played made launched grenades non-explosive at close range. So I am pretty sure it will not take exceptional development skill to make it work. In the real world, there aren't respawns and grenade launchers can OHK you. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4185
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Madagascan Eagle wrote:http://youtu.be/zftbf8OfwvY
I agree with Eddie. Lol, he compared a proto MD to the other variants. |
|
|
|