I'm a Python pilot, and Gallente tech wouldn't dream of putting 2 damage mods in their lows for fear of crippling their tank.

Yeah it's pretty bad that they include multiple types of tanking for dropsuits and vehicles, then make one clearly superior to the other in both instances.

What's the point of options if one option is so blatantly inferior to the other?

exactly.

In this game, armor tanking is kind of like hero tanking in EVE, so I kind of understand why they've made the armor modules a bit more powerful than the shield. We're tanking with the last resort of our HP.

Shield tanks need a slight buff to resistances on the module front. It works fine with HAVs, where they are supposed to be long range damage machines, using cover (where Gallente tanks are supposed to be front-line troop support and fully exposed to enemy fire).

This shield tanking flavor does not favor the Dropships, though, one must admit. It doesn't work very well to deploy squads in hostile areas if you can only rely on damage protection for a few seconds. Just some small tweaks are needed to set the vehicles straight.

I can fit a soma to beat all of my caldari fits for rail turrets. I have the enforce caldari HAV. so where are caldari HAVs meant to be at?

If you're using a Caldari Enforcer HAV with railguns, you're misusing its bonus. If you don't like missile launcher turrets then I would suggest you stick to the Gunnlogi as a railgun sniper. The Falchion should be utilizing the improved efficiency (15% range and damage bonus to missiles) of missiles to take full advantage of its role on the field (missiles give it an edge over armor tanks as well).

I'm assuming your complaint is in regards to the fact that the Gunnlogi has a 5/2 slot layout but the Madrugar gets a 2/5 slot layout? So you are going off of the idea that the Madrugar is capable of more damage if you slap a lot of damage/turret modifiers into all of its low slots? In which you'd be right, but what you'd have is a tank that's going to fall apart from a good Assault Dropship, a good Gunnlogi Railgun tank, a good Forge Gun operator, etc. The Madrugar, if fit to be a rail sniper, kind of doesn't get the option of "survivability".

Any Armor HAV that isn't slower than a shield HAV isn't properly tanked and should be easy pickings, so it's not anybody's fault if you couldn't kill it but yours. And Assault Dropships have the advantage over tanks (if the tank isn't sticking inside the red zone) because it can hover over the tank and avoid all fire.

And if armor tanked rail Somas were so much better than rail Gunnlogi, why is it that every time I call in a Sica and start pounding on an enemy rail Madrugar that they start hiding behind buildings and mountains? Why don't they just sit there with their superior tank, superior damage, and superior speed and finish me off in my poor, useless militia HAV?

you went from soma to madrugar plus you just mentioned a tactical upper hand-surprise wait till the get a bead on you, it becomes you shot him 8 times he shots you 3 times and you have to hide and he wait for you to pop out because he out tanked you while full tanked HAV and he went for damage mods. and repeat till someone else helps or someone gets a terrain advantage.

I went from Soma to Madrugar because if the Soma is so much better, than why am I scaring off Madrugars (which are the better version of Somas)? And it's not always a surprise advantage, either. At least, I'm assuming it's not a surprise that I'm shooting him when his turret is very clearly pointing in my direction?

Unless of course he's just, I don't know, off making a sandwich and just so happened to have his turret pointed away from, you know, all of the action. And do you honestly believe 8 railgun shots to a Soma aren't going to phase it, but 3 railgun shots to a Sica are going to cause it to cry for help?

If an armor tanked Rail Gunnlogi could beat a shield tanked rail Gunnlogi, you might have a point. But that's not how it works.

It's exactly how it works.

My Gunnlogi Railgun fit with 3998 Shields (2x damage mods) and a heavy shield repper is built for combat, I use it for redline and midrange combat, it's a versatile fit due to the repper. I come across Madrugars with around 6000 Armor and a heavy rep, they start pounding me, I have to fall back after they hit me 2-3 times, I rep myself and I'm only at half shields. The armor tank takes 4 shots, reps itself and is back up to full HP.

>Used to fly Python Dropships
>Respec'd into Gallante Dropships

(On my main)

The Gallante Dropship can run 2 armor plates and an armor repair with 1 shield harener a shield extender. Use 1 PG module and it all fits, Gallante Dropships can inherently run more health and survive longer, so really Gallante runs all in the vehicle department.

Shield HAV with Missile Turret > Armor HAV with Blasters
(especially if Shield tank bother to flank armor tank and shoot in his ***)

Shield HAV with Missile Turret > Armor HAV with Blasters
(especially if Shield tank bother to flank armor tank and shoot in his ***)

So you're saying that a shield tank that's specifically built to take on armour-fitted vehicles should be reasonably expected to flank and go for the weak points to (just barely) get better than an even-odds chance against a vehicle fitted with an ANTI-INFANTRY weapon?

You're right! That's totally balanced!

Except that blasters are better for anti infantry. Armor is getting it all at the moment.

Pretty much why I beat you in that one battle - the balance between armor and shield is ridiculous. I didn't even have to take cover, really. You would get me down to 1000 armor and Id just rep back up in a few seconds. It's BS.

In chromosome shield tank > armor tank. I think that it is nice that the gallente finally have something that is superior to the caldari.

In chromosome shield tank > armor tank. I think that it is nice that the gallente finally have something that is superior to the caldari.

Armor will beat Shield 100% of the time

I have to wonder if there are 2 different teams working on the different tanks.

I think the Devs are muddling **** up.

Shield Tanking is too strong! - Infantry Player
Armor Tanking is too strong! - Vehicle Player.

Infantry Devs - Ohshit, playerbase is complaining about Armor tanking, better nerf it.
Vehicle Devs - Ohshit, playerbase is complaining about Shield tanking, better nerf it.

In this game, armor tanking is kind of like hero tanking in EVE, so I kind of understand why they've made the armor modules a bit more powerful than the shield. We're tanking with the last resort of our HP.

.
.

It's exactly how it works.

My Gunnlogi Railgun fit with 3998 Shields (2x damage mods) and a heavy shield repper is built for combat, I use it for redline and midrange combat, it's a versatile fit due to the repper. I come across Madrugars with around 6000 Armor and a heavy rep, they start pounding me, I have to fall back after they hit me 2-3 times, I rep myself and I'm only at half shields. The armor tank takes 4 shots, reps itself and is back up to full HP.

Still beating this dead horse are we? I would love to see a proper race between a fully tanked Madruger and a fully tanked Gunnlogi and see what the actual outcome would be. If the Madruger were to actually win in said race, then the armor speed penalty to max speed isn't working properly, and needs to be looked into. Also, maybe you Gunnlogi pilots would fair better against armor tankers if every damn one of you i came across didn't equip a Compressed railgun. They overheat with 3 shots, as opposed to 5 shots with the regular railgun.

80GJ Particle Accelerator = 1272.9dmg * 5 = 6364.5 dmg in 10.5 seconds
80GJ Compressed Particle Accelerator = 1591.1dmg * 3 = 4773.3dmg in 7.5 seconds

Caldari speed was nerfed a little this build (and is still faster that an armor tank with anything more than a single 60mm armor plate equipped), but you are now the reigning king of anti-infantry with your shield resistance against explosive damage. Be happy with what you've gotten in the trade-off, and dont be surprised when someone like me comes in and puts a stop to you ripping our infantry to shreds. Otherwise, this forum post should be titled "Rock > Scissors everytime!... Come on CCP,, But scissors against paper works perfect, don't change a thing"

This seems to be the order of things

Armour blaster beats shield blaster.

Shield missile beats armour blaster.

Shield rail beats armour blaster.

Shield missile beats armour missile

Armour rail beats everything

There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.

This seems to be the order of things

Armour blaster beats shield blaster.

Shield missile beats armour blaster.

Shield rail beats armour blaster.

Shield missile beats armour missile

Armour rail beats everything

There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.

This seems to be the order of things

Armour blaster beats shield blaster.

Shield missile beats armour blaster.

Shield rail beats armour blaster.

Shield missile beats armour missile

Armour rail beats everything

There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.

No, armor blasters beat shield missiles. I fought a corpmate with my missile Gunnlogi against his blaster Madrugar and I lost both times that we engaged. He wasn't even at half armor by the time I was dead, so something is clearly wrong. And we both had best fits possible and near max skills.

You must be doing somthing wrong every time I meet a madruger with either my missile gunlogi or falconi its been toast . Use the range in the missiles to your advantage missiles far out range blasters. You have 250m optimum range before enforcer skills come into play.

Shield tanking requirws allot of cunning and gurilatactics where armour tanking is more head on .

Caldari tanks are medium to long range support tanks , where as galenti tanks are close range killers . If you use each tank to its suggested role then you will do well . Try to overstrech that role and yoy have to be one good pilot.

This seems to be the order of things

Armour blaster beats shield blaster.

Shield missile beats armour blaster.

Shield rail beats armour blaster.

Shield missile beats armour missile

Armour rail beats everything

There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.

Oh and a rail bonus would make shield tanks op. And to point out offered you advice regarding accelerated missiles veing a good counter for armour tanks but you dont want to specilise so when you ignore a provided counter you just make your argument look like QQ.

We would end out going back to the days when all we saw was red line rail sniping shield tanks. Rails are powerfull enough now (last build I could 2 shott bolasis now its 3 shotts with my caldari glass cannon) .Ccp obioisly intended for caldari to be missile tanks and gallente to be blaster tanks(my caldari enforcer can 3 shot a bolas and 2-3 shott most armout tank builds) . If you prefer high dammage and range then wait for the ammar hav to be introduced do I hear the words lazzer turrets

We would end out going back to the days when all we saw was red line rail sniping shield tanks. Rails are powerfull enough now (last build I could 2 shott bolasis now its 3 shotts with my caldari glass cannon) .Ccp obioisly intended for caldari to be missile tanks and gallente to be blaster tanks(my caldari enforcer can 3 shot a bolas and 2-3 shott most armout tank builds) . If you prefer high dammage and range then wait for the ammar hav to be introduced do I hear the words lazzer turrets

Lying. Straight up lying.


No missile tank 3 shots a Madrugar. This is FICTION.

EDIT: Wait are you trying to say that a rail tank 2 or 3 shots Madrugars? Even worse fiction.

Laser turrets would be useless against armor which is the issue already.


Please go away and come back when you have something besides lies and misinformation.

This is no lye my fully maxed enforcer equiped with accelerated missiles and a 10% dammage modd eats throught armour with nearly 4000 hp per volly. No fiction do the math before you accuse someone of lying .


Fully maxed out on missile skills and enforcer you have an extra 30% base dammage so each missile has 507 base dammage add the 30% and each missile now dose 659 with 4 missiles oer volly you have 2636 hp dammage per shot but with the missiles doing 129% dammage to armour we have now a base dammage of 3400hp per volly if you add a 10% dammage mod then you hit with 3740 hp per volly .

As I and yourself have pointed out reps and resist re the key to an armour tanks survival bit as I said I have been 3 shotting madrugers 2 shotts when iv got the drop on them . Allot of tank v tank comes down to pilot skill and awareness. I havent had problems with my builds and lets face it there is allot of weekend tankers out there.

I woildent say all the pilots I melt arw un skilled it also helps that I run with a squad 90% of the time and have someone at least calling out tank and enimy positions constantly. Iv found the more aggressive my attack style is tge better off I tend to fair. As I said getting the drop on an enimy tank is half the vattle won.

Ehem I never said anything about my squad carrying av norm 1 sniper and 1 gunner at least bit not norm av dont put worda in my mouth to validate your point. If you cant take out srmour tanks with your missiles your doing it wrong plain and simple so take your self righteous smugness and shove it.

While the armor rep is active, it can almost negate any damage missiles deal, while a shield booster can't negate even half of the damage a blaster can output.

Stop trying to claim that shield tanking is balanced and its all about tactics... because its not. Armor tanks DO shine over shield tanks in everything. Like Eurydice said, they have better acceleration, more eHP, and better repping ability.

Shield tanks are clearly underpowered. It's not about how you use them. End of discussion.

A im not being ignorant I run a fully specked caldari enforcer and a well specked madruger so I can see both sides of the argument. With the reacent nerfs to shield tanks iv had to really adapt my battlefirleld stratagem when I run shield whic is 99% of the time. I rarly loose my tanks to other tanks and mostly to proto av . Also I never denied shield tanks needing a buff I just tryed to dish some advice that might have helped if you wernt stuck in the woe betide me attitude . So to summerise improvise adapt and overcome if not then die.

While the armor rep is active, it can almost negate any damage missiles deal, while a shield booster can't negate even half of the damage a blaster can output.

Stop trying to claim that shield tanking is balanced and its all about tactics... because its not. Armor tanks DO shine over shield tanks in everything. Like Eurydice said, they have better acceleration, more eHP, and better repping ability.

Shield tanks are clearly underpowered. It's not about how you use them. End of discussion.

Id say the 30% is fine it just dosent run long enough 10s is nothing when you have a 30second cooldown. Id say 30% dammage reduction for 30 seconds and a 30second cool down that would make running 2 viable .

Balance them against armor tanks, since shield doesn't get the crazy reps that armor does, keep it at 30% 60 second active 10 second cooldown (or whatever numbers for active and cool down are the same for shields.)

But the main think is what CCP wants to do, personally I felt the setup we have now was balanced for the damage output we had in the previous build. If CCP wants to balance with damage we just need a rollback to the mechanics of last build. If CCP wants to balance using tank, then we need a complete rework of the modules associated with tanking.

No Dev comments here yet.....

It's like they don't care about us vehicle drivers

shield tanks still have the advantage when it comes to getting attacked by AV... the only things that do more damage to shield tanks than armor tanks are flux and orbitals everything else does the same or greater damage to armor

No Dev comments here yet.....

It's like they don't care about us vehicle drivers

shield tanks still have the advantage when it comes to getting attacked by AV... the only things that do more damage to shield tanks than armor tanks are flux and orbitals everything else does the same or greater damage to armor

Shield tanks have less EHP then armor tanks and therefore AV decimates shields much easier then armor.

Shield tanks have less EHP then armor tanks and therefore AV decimates shields much easier then armor.

you forgot blasters(turrets) and plasma cannons.

ya some dude was saying the same thing with his 5.5k shield tank compared to a 5.9k armor madrugar..... the only way for armor to get a significant hp increase over shield is to use a standard large missile and a 15% pg expansion and fit a 180mm plate.... blaster madrugars dont have enough PG to fit a 180mm without giving up all their damage resistance for PG expansions...

both blasters and plasma cannons are hybrid weapons they do the same damage to both shield and armor

shield tanks still have the advantage when it comes to getting attacked by AV... the only things that do more damage to shield tanks than armor tanks are flux and orbitals everything else does the same or greater damage to armor

this is getting annoying. just so it is out there
weapos/turrets that do 100% on both is forge guns, railguns, and orbitals (warbarge ones)(thats3 for people counting)
ones that are more effective on armor are AV grenades, swarm launchers and missile turrets(that's 3 for people counting)
ones that are more effective on shields are flux, plasma cannon and blaster turrets(that's also 3 for people counting)
so everyone can see there are 3 for each.
this does not count small arms fire because that's an infantry thing to worry about but I can add them if people want to argue over them.

I was testing rail guns today and they do 89% dammage to armour and 109% dammage to shields so really its not that even as 20% more efficient against shields is quite a jump. Test it and see for yourself I didnt know the exact figure myself. Ill be testi g the efficiencys of all av against both shield and armour. Avnades excluded.

this is getting annoying. just so it is out there
weapos/turrets that do 100% on both is forge guns, railguns, and orbitals (warbarge ones)(thats3 for people counting)
ones that are more effective on armor are AV grenades, swarm launchers and missile turrets(that's 3 for people counting)
ones that are more effective on shields are flux, plasma cannon and blaster turrets(that's also 3 for people counting)
so everyone can see there are 3 for each.
this does not count small arms fire because that's an infantry thing to worry about but I can add them if people want to argue over them.

I stand corrected. rails do more to shields then armor, that needs to be fixed. this also effects forge guns. this needs to be fixed ASAP CCP.

I switched from Armor tanking to Shield tanking with the respec, and now have buyers remorse for the most part. I did this so that I could have more survivability against infantry. I do for the most part unless someone comes out with plasma cannon, forge gun, flux grenades. Then I drop extremely fast.

The resistance against explosives is nice though as most infantry use that. It does really suck though that if I see any armor tank hit the field, I have to try to run and flank them just to have a chance, or I have to put the dam thing away.

If I see a shield tank hit the field though.... I'm not nearly as scared. I can normally destroy a fellow shield tanker no problem.

After a while of trying to tinker with fittings and such to find something more efficient for me, in the end I feel like there really is only 1 way to go in shield tank to have any edge at all, as passive tanking is barely viable, and even active tanking I only get half my shields back, then have to sit around like an idiot behind a rock praying someone doesn't find me.

I agree with the majority of the people that say Armor > Shield tanks, and I normally don't like to choose sides in discussions like this.

something.. I surprised that no dev has posted anything, guess they think its balanced then..

There's no way they think its balanced. If it goes around 2 months without anything on the subject I'll probably drop the game. Too deep into Caldari to turn around.

I actually just went ahead and bought my way back into Gallente tanks. It does suck feeling like I have "wasted" so much SP, but hopefully they will balance some things out later, and I can get some use out of the shield tank. It really does do better against explosives which helps. Might have to just be a bit situational.

Than again, being in armor again last night I kinda realized that it almost doesn't matter so long as I can turn on my repper and get ALL MY FRIGGIN HP BACK. Having played shields all month, and going back to armor is really making me see the HUGE difference.

Unless we get 1 more magical respec, I'll just deal with all the SP in shields. I like driving a caldari death taxi every now and then anyway. :)

I actually just went ahead and bought my way back into Gallente tanks. It does suck feeling like I have "wasted" so much SP, but hopefully they will balance some things out later, and I can get some use out of the shield tank. It really does do better against explosives which helps. Might have to just be a bit situational.

Than again, being in armor again last night I kinda realized that it almost doesn't matter so long as I can turn on my repper and get ALL MY FRIGGIN HP BACK. Having played shields all month, and going back to armor is really making me see the HUGE difference.

Unless we get 1 more magical respec, I'll just deal with all the SP in shields. I like driving a caldari death taxi every now and then anyway. :)

How deep are you into Caldari?

I dunno if I could just start dumping points into armor and not feel under powered. I suppose I've got proto hybrid which is good and I've got the core skills to 5, just no points into armor skills at all.

I'm pretty deep myself .. When the launch came, I didn't think at all that they'd change anything about the balance of tanks cause there didn't seem to be anything wrong with em i'm the last build (as far as balance went anyway. :/ )

No time to read the whole thing but just my two cents: Shield may not be GÇ£as good asGÇ¥ armour, but almost all AV weapons are better against armour, the exception being the forge gun (who even uses those?) which I believe only does marginally better damage.

No time to read the whole thing but just my two cents: Shield may not be GÇ£as good asGÇ¥ armour, but almost all AV weapons are better against armour, the exception being the forge gun (who even uses those?) which I believe only does marginally better damage.

No time to read the whole thing but just my two cents: Shield may not be GÇ£as good asGÇ¥ armour, but almost all AV weapons are better against armour, the exception being the forge gun (who even uses those?) which I believe only does marginally better damage.

Yeah it's pretty bad that they include multiple types of tanking for dropsuits and vehicles, then make one clearly superior to the other in both instances.

What's the point of options if one option is so blatantly inferior to the other?

No time to read the whole thing but just my two cents: Shield may not be GÇ£as good asGÇ¥ armour, but almost all AV weapons are better against armour, the exception being the forge gun (who even uses those?) which I believe only does marginally better damage.

Forges, railguns, Flux Grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation), blasters all do more to shields.

I already mentioned forge guns.

Flux grenades do nothing to vehicles (in every instance I have tried) and railguns will not do enough extra damage that you will notice as they already do massive damage to everything anyway.

Orbitals will always kill you unless you're quick or on the edge of it.

I find the argument against reppers somewhat redundant as shields can tank a lot more HP than armour tanks which allows them more time to react or escape. Given that all other AV does more damage to armour, this is a huge strength for shields.

You said there are more weapons that do more to armor. That was wrong.

Flux grenades do nothing to (shield) vehicles? Please move along troll.

Hardly anyone in this thread has an argument "against" reppers. We want shield tanks to have a role and armor tanks to have a role.

Ugh, why do I find myself face to face with unpleasantry all too often on this forum? I have tried flux against every Caldari logisitcs LAV I have ever come across and it has done nothing, even when they are stationary. My experience with HAV's and flux nades has also never been successful, but I haven't had as many opportunities to test it.

Don't call me a troll for telling you my experience with the game, how about you actually look up the term?

As for the weapons that do more damage to armour: You have any form of missiles that do more to armour, swarm launchers, AV grenades, and if the AR is anything to go by, blasters actually do more to armour too. Let's not mention the mass driver or the plasma cannon because they might be one weapon too many over this:

GÇ£You said there are more weapons that do more to armor. That was wrong.GÇ¥

You must attract it with what you post sir.

Shield LLAVs are an issue, but one for another thread. We are talking about HAVs (and dropships fit the bill too really).

I never said what was more effective or had a better time (although it's armor), you said there were more weapons dealing more damage to armor than shield, that was completely, 100%, wrong. Plasma cannon does more to shields and Mass Driver is not an AV weapon. I'm not sure why you bring these two up.

As far as flux grenades not being effective vs Caldari HAVs, please just practice playing the game sir. Your enjoyment will improve if your skill does.

Forges, railguns, Flux Grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation), blasters all do more to shields.

List of wepons and dammage some one help me with this .

1 forge guns and rail guns dish 109% dammage to shields and 89%-90% dammage to armour as do largeblaster turrets.

2 flux grenades do no dammage to armour and an unmesurable ammount of dammage due to how they work but if 1 fluxgrenade explodes under your gunlogi you will loose a minimun of 1300 shields (tried and tested via syncing up in faction.) Level1 flux.

3 plasma cannons I believe do 109% dammage to shields and 89% dammage to armour.

4 av nades are 90% effective against shields and 129% effectice against armour as are any missiles.

As you can see there is more weponry avaliable for taking down shields opposed to armour .

Edited for correction of dammage for the plasma cannon thanks ladwar.

Just quoting a good post.

A proto assault forge can solo a well fit gunnlogi before it can even try to retreat... Not cool.

If it can solo the Gunnlogi, I'm fairly certain it would have no problem vs any other armour tank.

I like how the three main weapons for taking down armour are consolidated into just one point. Missiles (turrets and installations) do an incredible amount to armour. Swarm launchers also do much more to armour.

The example I'm looking at is still AV grenades with a massive 40% difference between shield and armour damage, where the tow main killers have to add their differences to get the same. Seems very balanced to me.

The only part where you really have a point is with flux grenades, but you're forgetting AV grenades again as they still do an astonishing amount to armour. You can solo an armour tank using AV grenades alone, you can't do this using flux grenades, you said so yourself:

- GÇ£flux grenades do no dammage to armourGÇ¥

This means you either have to carry another AV weapon to take down that Gunnlogi, or a mass driver which can be fairly effective against vehicles (and infantry once fixed). Seems balanced to me.

Haven't read ANYTHING except the title.

I actually prefer the Caldari (Shield) Tanks over Gallente (Armor) Tanks.

If you look at the statistics and logic behind it all (Not just base health and turret type...), they're actually pretty pretty balanced. Example? Why, sure.

Shield: Hard to destroy with anything other than a pure AV weapons. Ex: Plasma Cannon, Turrets, Forge Gun. CONS: Once shield is gone, the vehicle is toast. Better bring some Armor Repairs.

Armor: Low Shield, but more eHP. However, it's a bit weak against all other AV weapons. I could break a Soma with a Mass Driver, if I had enough ammo (And I carry hives, so i do have enough Ammo...), so long as Shields are down. I can take out 1/3 of the Armor of the Soma with just one AV Grenade. It's just weaker against that stuff.

So yea. Balanced, although it seems otherwise. I just like to bring a Caldari Tank into the match because the shield is so hard to destroy, it gives me a chance to run before I get destroyed.

Read any of the many many posts explaining how wrong you are, then kindly leave.

Well, I don't really get into all the crazy stuff. I focus on mechanics. I'm sorry. :(

I was thinking about weakness/strength. Honestly, I can't fit a vehicle for ****, but I use Armor Repairs on my Sica, and I rarely lose those. Congratz though, not a lot of people correct me. :D

Read any of the many many posts explaining how wrong you are, then kindly leave.

Well, I don't really get into all the crazy stuff. I focus on mechanics. I'm sorry. :(

I was thinking about weakness/strength. Honestly, I can't fit a vehicle for ****, but I use Armor Repairs on my Sica, and I rarely lose those. Congratz though, not a lot of people correct me. :D

ALSO: I've been using the Mass Driver for a WHILE now. I was simply saying it's good enough against Armor that I COULD AV a Soma with it. I'm a 4m SP Gallente G/1-Series Logistics. I also know how to use big words. I'd appreciate if you NOT act like I have no idea what I'm talking about, as I learn faster than most.

(Posted after reading about the 'And using MD for AV? Really?' comment.)

EDIT: Have destroyed a Madrugar as well, just so you know. Packed AV 'Nades tweaked into my 'Assault - Anti-Armor' starting fit. Combo of Swarms + 'Nades.

Yeah, I continue to support some balancing here. I actually saw an armor tank straight up ignore 2 guys shooting missiles at it today. He drove off when I became the third, but not until I hit him with 5 salvos, and the other two guys kept chasing it too. Now maybe they were using militia launchers, but I have some skill points sunk into an anti-armor fitting which includes advanced launcher and damage mods. A tank should not be able to so thoroughly god-mode its way around the field. Granted, I am sure it was a very expensive tank, but that's a LOT of attention, and it was fun watching 15 missiles rushing into it....

..but it would have been more fun if it just died.

I do believe the general consensus is that shield tanks need to be on line with armor tanks.

Not armor tanks need to be brought down a peg. Feel free to create a thread suggesting tanks need to be nerfed though. It will fly well.

Yeah, I continue to support some balancing here. I actually saw an armor tank straight up ignore 2 guys shooting missiles at it today. He drove off when I became the third, but not until I hit him with 5 salvos, and the other two guys kept chasing it too. Now maybe they were using militia launchers, but I have some skill points sunk into an anti-armor fitting which includes advanced launcher and damage mods. A tank should not be able to so thoroughly god-mode its way around the field. Granted, I am sure it was a very expensive tank, but that's a LOT of attention, and it was fun watching 15 missiles rushing into it....

..but it would have been more fun if it just died.

I like how the three main weapons for taking down armour are consolidated into just one point. Missiles (turrets and installations) do an incredible amount to armour. Swarm launchers also do much more to armour.

The example I'm looking at is still AV grenades with a massive 40% difference between shield and armour damage, where the tow main killers have to add their differences to get the same. Seems very balanced to me.

The only part where you really have a point is with flux grenades, but you're forgetting AV grenades again as they still do an astonishing amount to armour. You can solo an armour tank using AV grenades alone, you can't do this using flux grenades, you said so yourself:

- GÇ£flux grenades do no dammage to armourGÇ¥

This means you either have to carry another AV weapon to take down that Gunnlogi, or a mass driver which can be fairly effective against vehicles (and infantry once fixed). Seems balanced to me.

Also fix the eHP values again.
I-¦m not on DUST right now but several Gallente vehicles have up to 700 HP more eHP than their shield counterparts.

EDIT:
Gorgon: 2160 HP
Viper: 1661 HP

Grimsnes: 2400 HP
Myron: 1845 HP

Incubus: 2400 HP
Phyton: 1845 HP

Prometheus: 2862 HP
Eryx: 2700 HP

Baloch: 1210 HP
Onikuma: 1040 HP

Methana: 2641 HP
Saga: 2325 HP

Limbus: 3206 HP
Charydbis: 2984 HP

Abron: 1815 HP
Callisto: 1460 HP

Soma: 3651 HP
Sica: 3463 HP

Madrugar: 4750 HP
Gunnlogi: 4500 HP

Vayu: 4672 HP
Falchion: 4632 HP

Stats based on wiki.dust514.info

These stats are the totall armour and shield of a naked fit . Even with shield extenders a shield tank that gets into armour is dead so we have much much lower ehp.

plus the armor repairers are much, much better as well. :(

much, much, much more

Whatever chaps, I'm sure with the excellent attitudes displayed in this thread you're sure to get a positive response...

For those saying armour reps are 3x as strong as shield, I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. The hp repaired by armour reps is 3x that of a shield booster, but armour reps have a pulse interval of 3.0 secs, where shield boosters have a pulse of 1.0 secs. Am I missing something?

As for armour tanks being faster than shield tanks, wtf are you smoking?

There are drawbacks and strengths to each, and as a killer (and occasional driver) of tanks, I see no problems. You may get wtfpwned by flux grenades, but let's be honest; how many people carry those over AV grenades and swarms?

Whatever chaps, I'm sure with the excellent attitudes displayed in this thread you're sure to get a positive response...

For those saying armour reps are 3x as strong as shield, I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. The hp repaired by armour reps is 3x that of a shield booster, but armour reps have a pulse interval of 3.0 secs, where shield boosters have a pulse of 1.0 secs. Am I missing something?

As for armour tanks being faster than shield tanks, wtf are you smoking?

There are drawbacks and strengths to each, and as a killer (and occasional driver) of tanks, I see no problems. You may get wtfpwned by flux grenades, but let's be honest; how many people carry those over AV grenades and swarms?

I want to know what YOU are smoking. Armor reps do three times more than shield boosters BECAUSE their pulse interval is 3 seconds vs the one second for shields. The HP repaired attribute is HP/s during each pulse interval, so your armor rep does 414hp every second for three seconds while shield boosters do something like 320 once every three seconds (hell I don't even know the exact number on shield boosters anymore because they are just that bad).

And armor tanks ARE faster. A corpmate of mine tested this with me and they accelerate much faster, then add a nitrous booster and it flies away from my shield tank.

A good Shield tanker can take down any armor tank

Just requires the right fitting and the right tactics

A good Shield tanker can take down any armor tank

Just requires the right fitting and the right tactics

Said the guy who didn't know what he was talking about.

A good Shield tanker can take down any armor tank

Just requires the right fitting and the right tactics

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62956&find=unread

CCP was told what would happen, if damage was taken away. They didn't listen.

A good Shield tanker can take down any armor tank

Just requires the right fitting and the right tactics

With the addition of pilot suits, armor tanks will now become I-Win buttons.

Yup, bc the bonus is larger for the armor tank than the shield tank, as it is a percent-bonus, rather than flat bonus. All the glass cannon in the world wont mean anything as long as the armor tank's tank can out-tank the shield tank's dps. Possibly, replacing the falchion's bonus to missiles with rails could solve this imbalance, but it'd need to be a huge bonus, making shield tanks unstoppable glass cannons. kind of like in chromosome.

Saggy's killed tanks. Suryas killed infantry. It was perfect. We need the old, broken damage skills back to make shield tanks viable, again.

hm.. no blue tags still..

so i ran some numbers and toke a look at the cooldown reduction with active shield hardeners and with a max bonus (50%) i believe that drops the cooldown to 15sec. which is better, better but not great. then i compare that to armor repairers and just went LOL you'll never be able to kill them with never ending reps while shields just become hardened with a lot of focus on modules. and at this point even with the missile bonuses and proto missiles i watch an armor tank not only tank but recover HP as i hit him from the back with my large missile turret. he repaired greater then the damage i could do. so yup when is this going to get fixed ccp. when is the balance coming back to HAVs? how much longer can you ignore this and say it is intended?

What do shield tanks have on, armor tanks now? Seriously, the armor tanks do just as much damage, go just as fast, but take more damage, and have more venue for repairs... Can anyone tell me what advantage shield tanks have now? They used to be kinda balanced, but I can't see why we should spec Shields anymore. >:(

I want to know what YOU are smoking. Armor reps do three times more than shield boosters BECAUSE their pulse interval is 3 seconds vs the one second for shields. The HP repaired attribute is HP/s during each pulse interval, so your armor rep does 414hp every second for three seconds while shield boosters do something like 320 once every three seconds (hell I don't even know the exact number on shield boosters anymore because they are just that bad).

And armor tanks ARE faster. A corpmate of mine tested this with me and they accelerate much faster, then add a nitrous booster and it flies away from my shield tank.

That's not quite accurate; we'd have to test it with the Vayu against the Gunnlogi to get a proper spread of data.

I would just like to point out, while I agree that shield tanks need a buff, that there might be more individual weapon types that deal more damage to shields, but one is far more likely to encounter those that deal bonus damage to armour, simply because of a: AV grenades don't take up a weapon slot b: swarms fit on medium suits and c: plasma cannons are gimped.

CCP, please buff shield modules! With the upcoming pilot suits, armor will now almost permarun it's active hardeners. WTF

I demand 60% resist to the surges and my boosters doing 5000 shield in 5s. That is all

They Need to make passive shield tanking viable so caldari ttankers could stop whining. Then make boosters do ~4k HP in 5 seconds for the Clarity Heavy ones. scale down for other versions. That'll make Winmatar HAV's good too. Really, if you're a Caldari HAV, and you are anywhere near the front lines (although doable), you're just doing it wrong. Caldari are the snipers of New Eden. Use them right, take that Blaster off and put on a Missile or Rail turret and get supporting.


Peace, Aizen

That's not quite accurate; we'd have to test it with the Vayu against the Gunnlogi to get a proper spread of data.

I would just like to point out, while I agree that shield tanks need a buff, that there might be more individual weapon types that deal more damage to shields, but one is far more likely to encounter those that deal bonus damage to armour, simply because of a: AV grenades don't take up a weapon slot b: swarms fit on medium suits and c: plasma cannons are gimped.

The only thing CCP has done right is giving the (sort of) right idea on what weaknesses and strengths are for armor and shields. But have they implemented them correctly? I think not.

You'd think they were ignoring us completely. >:(

Armoured H.A.V.s are simply a lot better than shield tanks in everything making [shield] tanks useless. CCP needs to balance/fix it. End. Of. Story.

Stop trolling, in other words...

yet the supposed anti shield weapons (rails and forge guns) only have a 20% difference and they aren't half as common.

You can't even rely on flux grenades to take put a shield tank, as they do roughly the same damage to shields as AV grenades do to armour (without the bonus) AND you can't kill a shield tank using flux alone.

Counter all of my points above and I will personally make a request to CCP in written letter, asking that they improve shield tanks.

Any Armor HAV that isn't slower than a shield HAV isn't properly tanked and should be easy pickings, so it's not anybody's fault if you couldn't kill it but yours. And Assault Dropships have the advantage over tanks (if the tank isn't sticking inside the red zone) because it can hover over the tank and avoid all fire.

And if armor tanked rail Somas were so much better than rail Gunnlogi, why is it that every time I call in a Sica and start pounding on an enemy rail Madrugar that they start hiding behind buildings and mountains? Why don't they just sit there with their superior tank, superior damage, and superior speed and finish me off in my poor, useless militia HAV?

I can't speak for your personal experiences but I can speak for mine. Any time I lose my Sica to an HAV it's because it was a blaster tank that caught me up close, or a railgun tank that I couldn't tell where on earth he was.

still...