In this game, armor tanking is kind of like hero tanking in EVE, so I kind of understand why they've made the armor modules a bit more powerful than the shield. We're tanking with the last resort of our HP.

Shield tanks need a slight buff to resistances on the module front. It works fine with HAVs, where they are supposed to be long range damage machines, using cover (where Gallente tanks are supposed to be front-line troop support and fully exposed to enemy fire).

This shield tanking flavor does not favor the Dropships, though, one must admit. It doesn't work very well to deploy squads in hostile areas if you can only rely on damage protection for a few seconds. Just some small tweaks are needed to set the vehicles straight.

If you're using a Caldari Enforcer HAV with railguns, you're misusing its bonus. If you don't like missile launcher turrets then I would suggest you stick to the Gunnlogi as a railgun sniper. The Falchion should be utilizing the improved efficiency (15% range and damage bonus to missiles) of missiles to take full advantage of its role on the field (missiles give it an edge over armor tanks as well).

I'm assuming your complaint is in regards to the fact that the Gunnlogi has a 5/2 slot layout but the Madrugar gets a 2/5 slot layout? So you are going off of the idea that the Madrugar is capable of more damage if you slap a lot of damage/turret modifiers into all of its low slots? In which you'd be right, but what you'd have is a tank that's going to fall apart from a good Assault Dropship, a good Gunnlogi Railgun tank, a good Forge Gun operator, etc. The Madrugar, if fit to be a rail sniper, kind of doesn't get the option of "survivability".

Any Armor HAV that isn't slower than a shield HAV isn't properly tanked and should be easy pickings, so it's not anybody's fault if you couldn't kill it but yours. And Assault Dropships have the advantage over tanks (if the tank isn't sticking inside the red zone) because it can hover over the tank and avoid all fire.

And if armor tanked rail Somas were so much better than rail Gunnlogi, why is it that every time I call in a Sica and start pounding on an enemy rail Madrugar that they start hiding behind buildings and mountains? Why don't they just sit there with their superior tank, superior damage, and superior speed and finish me off in my poor, useless militia HAV?

I went from Soma to Madrugar because if the Soma is so much better, than why am I scaring off Madrugars (which are the better version of Somas)? And it's not always a surprise advantage, either. At least, I'm assuming it's not a surprise that I'm shooting him when his turret is very clearly pointing in my direction?

Unless of course he's just, I don't know, off making a sandwich and just so happened to have his turret pointed away from, you know, all of the action. And do you honestly believe 8 railgun shots to a Soma aren't going to phase it, but 3 railgun shots to a Sica are going to cause it to cry for help?

Armor will beat Shield 100% of the time

I have to wonder if there are 2 different teams working on the different tanks.

I think the Devs are muddling **** up.

Shield Tanking is too strong! - Infantry Player
Armor Tanking is too strong! - Vehicle Player.

Infantry Devs - Ohshit, playerbase is complaining about Armor tanking, better nerf it.
Vehicle Devs - Ohshit, playerbase is complaining about Shield tanking, better nerf it.

Still beating this dead horse are we? I would love to see a proper race between a fully tanked Madruger and a fully tanked Gunnlogi and see what the actual outcome would be. If the Madruger were to actually win in said race, then the armor speed penalty to max speed isn't working properly, and needs to be looked into. Also, maybe you Gunnlogi pilots would fair better against armor tankers if every damn one of you i came across didn't equip a Compressed railgun. They overheat with 3 shots, as opposed to 5 shots with the regular railgun.

80GJ Particle Accelerator = 1272.9dmg * 5 = 6364.5 dmg in 10.5 seconds
80GJ Compressed Particle Accelerator = 1591.1dmg * 3 = 4773.3dmg in 7.5 seconds

Caldari speed was nerfed a little this build (and is still faster that an armor tank with anything more than a single 60mm armor plate equipped), but you are now the reigning king of anti-infantry with your shield resistance against explosive damage. Be happy with what you've gotten in the trade-off, and dont be surprised when someone like me comes in and puts a stop to you ripping our infantry to shreds. Otherwise, this forum post should be titled "Rock > Scissors everytime!... Come on CCP,, But scissors against paper works perfect, don't change a thing"

This seems to be the order of things

Armour blaster beats shield blaster.

Shield missile beats armour blaster.

Shield rail beats armour blaster.

Shield missile beats armour missile

Armour rail beats everything

There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.

Oh and a rail bonus would make shield tanks op. And to point out offered you advice regarding accelerated missiles veing a good counter for armour tanks but you dont want to specilise so when you ignore a provided counter you just make your argument look like QQ.

We would end out going back to the days when all we saw was red line rail sniping shield tanks. Rails are powerfull enough now (last build I could 2 shott bolasis now its 3 shotts with my caldari glass cannon) .Ccp obioisly intended for caldari to be missile tanks and gallente to be blaster tanks(my caldari enforcer can 3 shot a bolas and 2-3 shott most armout tank builds) . If you prefer high dammage and range then wait for the ammar hav to be introduced do I hear the words lazzer turrets

Balance them against armor tanks, since shield doesn't get the crazy reps that armor does, keep it at 30% 60 second active 10 second cooldown (or whatever numbers for active and cool down are the same for shields.)

But the main think is what CCP wants to do, personally I felt the setup we have now was balanced for the damage output we had in the previous build. If CCP wants to balance with damage we just need a rollback to the mechanics of last build. If CCP wants to balance using tank, then we need a complete rework of the modules associated with tanking.

No Dev comments here yet.....

It's like they don't care about us vehicle drivers

shield tanks still have the advantage when it comes to getting attacked by AV... the only things that do more damage to shield tanks than armor tanks are flux and orbitals everything else does the same or greater damage to armor

ya some dude was saying the same thing with his 5.5k shield tank compared to a 5.9k armor madrugar..... the only way for armor to get a significant hp increase over shield is to use a standard large missile and a 15% pg expansion and fit a 180mm plate.... blaster madrugars dont have enough PG to fit a 180mm without giving up all their damage resistance for PG expansions...

both blasters and plasma cannons are hybrid weapons they do the same damage to both shield and armor

I was testing rail guns today and they do 89% dammage to armour and 109% dammage to shields so really its not that even as 20% more efficient against shields is quite a jump. Test it and see for yourself I didnt know the exact figure myself. Ill be testi g the efficiencys of all av against both shield and armour. Avnades excluded.

plus the armor repairers are much, much better as well. :(

I want to know what YOU are smoking. Armor reps do three times more than shield boosters BECAUSE their pulse interval is 3 seconds vs the one second for shields. The HP repaired attribute is HP/s during each pulse interval, so your armor rep does 414hp every second for three seconds while shield boosters do something like 320 once every three seconds (hell I don't even know the exact number on shield boosters anymore because they are just that bad).

And armor tanks ARE faster. A corpmate of mine tested this with me and they accelerate much faster, then add a nitrous booster and it flies away from my shield tank.

Said the guy who didn't know what he was talking about.

Yup, bc the bonus is larger for the armor tank than the shield tank, as it is a percent-bonus, rather than flat bonus. All the glass cannon in the world wont mean anything as long as the armor tank's tank can out-tank the shield tank's dps. Possibly, replacing the falchion's bonus to missiles with rails could solve this imbalance, but it'd need to be a huge bonus, making shield tanks unstoppable glass cannons. kind of like in chromosome.

Saggy's killed tanks. Suryas killed infantry. It was perfect. We need the old, broken damage skills back to make shield tanks viable, again.

You'd think they were ignoring us completely. >:(