DUST Search - armor tank > shield tank everytime!... come on ccp,, you fixed what wasn'...

RINON114 wrote:

Yotta Guns wrote:

pegasis prime wrote:

List of wepons and dammage some one help me with this .

1 forge guns and rail guns dish 109% dammage to shields and 89%-90% dammage to armour as do largeblaster turrets.

2 flux grenades do no dammage to armour and an unmesurable ammount of dammage due to how they work but if 1 fluxgrenade explodes under your gunlogi you will loose a minimun of 1300 shields (tried and tested via syncing up in faction.) Level1 flux.

3 plasma cannons I believe do 109% dammage to shields and 89% dammage to armour.

4 av nades are 90% effective against shields and 129% effectice against armour as are any missiles.

As you can see there is more weponry avaliable for taking down shields opposed to armour .

Edited for correction of dammage for the plasma cannon thanks ladwar.

Just quoting a good post.

I like how the three main weapons for taking down armour are consolidated into just one point. Missiles (turrets and installations) do an incredible amount to armour. Swarm launchers also do much more to armour.

The example I'm looking at is still AV grenades with a massive 40% difference between shield and armour damage, where the tow main killers have to add their differences to get the same. Seems very balanced to me.

The only part where you really have a point is with flux grenades, but you're forgetting AV grenades again as they still do an astonishing amount to armour. You can solo an armour tank using AV grenades alone, you can't do this using flux grenades, you said so yourself:

- GÇ£flux grenades do no dammage to armourGÇ¥

This means you either have to carry another AV weapon to take down that Gunnlogi, or a mass driver which can be fairly effective against vehicles (and infantry once fixed). Seems balanced to me.


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pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 11:06:00 - [1] - Quote This seems to be the order of things Armour blaster beats shield blaster. Shield missile beats armour blaster. Shield rail beats armour blaster. Shield missile beats armour missile Armour rail beats everything There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 13:53:00 - [2] - Quote Harpyja wrote: pegasis prime wrote: This seems to be the order of things Armour blaster beats shield blaster. Shield missile beats armour blaster. Shield rail beats armour blaster. Shield missile beats armour missile Armour rail beats everything There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank. No, armor blasters beat shield missiles. I fought a corpmate with my missile Gunnlogi against his blaster Madrugar and I lost both times that we engaged. He wasn't even at half armor by the time I was dead, so something is clearly wrong. And we both had best fits possible and near max skills. You must be doing somthing wrong every time I meet a madruger with either my missile gunlogi or falconi its been toast . Use the range in the missiles to your advantage missiles far out range blasters. You have 250m optimum range before enforcer skills come into play.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 13:56:00 - [3] - Quote Caldari tanks are medium to long range support tanks , where as galenti tanks are close range killers . If you use each tank to its suggested role then you will do well . Try to overstrech that role and yoy have to be one good pilot.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 16:12:00 - [4] - Quote If you use the accelerated missilea for anti armour then you shoukdent have a problem with accuracy. The whole thing about letti g blasters get close means you have put yourself in a position with no escape rout or cover to use while you escape. Shield tanking requirws allot of cunning and gurilatactics where armour tanking is more head on . A good way to think about it is how to get past a locked door. Where shield tanking is a lockpick and armour tanking is a battering ram. Both will get you through the doot but the lockpick requires a bit more skill.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 17:10:00 - [5] - Quote A im not being ignorant I run a fully specked caldari enforcer and a well specked madruger so I can see both sides of the argument. With the reacent nerfs to shield tanks iv had to really adapt my battlefirleld stratagem when I run shield whic is 99% of the time. I rarly loose my tanks to other tanks and mostly to proto av . Also I never denied shield tanks needing a buff I just tryed to dish some advice that might have helped if you wernt stuck in the woe betide me attitude . So to summerise improvise adapt and overcome if not then die.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 17:16:00 - [6] - Quote Oh and a rail bonus would make shield tanks op. And to point out offered you advice regarding accelerated missiles veing a good counter for armour tanks but you dont want to specilise so when you ignore a provided counter you just make your argument look like QQ.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 22:16:00 - [7] - Quote We would end out going back to the days when all we saw was red line rail sniping shield tanks. Rails are powerfull enough now (last build I could 2 shott bolasis now its 3 shotts with my caldari glass cannon) .Ccp obioisly intended for caldari to be missile tanks and gallente to be blaster tanks(my caldari enforcer can 3 shot a bolas and 2-3 shott most armout tank builds) . If you prefer high dammage and range then wait for the ammar hav to be introduced do I hear the words lazzer turrets
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 23:11:00 - [8] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: pegasis prime wrote: We would end out going back to the days when all we saw was red line rail sniping shield tanks. Rails are powerfull enough now (last build I could 2 shott bolasis now its 3 shotts with my caldari glass cannon) .Ccp obioisly intended for caldari to be missile tanks and gallente to be blaster tanks(my caldari enforcer can 3 shot a bolas and 2-3 shott most armout tank builds) . If you prefer high dammage and range then wait for the ammar hav to be introduced do I hear the words lazzer turrets Lying. Straight up lying. No missile tank 3 shots a Madrugar. This is FICTION. EDIT: Wait are you trying to say that a rail tank 2 or 3 shots Madrugars? Even worse fiction. Laser turrets would be useless against armor which is the issue already. Please go away and come back when you have something besides lies and misinformation. This is no lye my fully maxed enforcer equiped with accelerated missiles and a 10% dammage modd eats throught armour with nearly 4000 hp per volly. No fiction do the math before you accuse someone of lying . Fully maxed out on missile skills and enforcer you have an extra 30% base dammage so each missile has 507 base dammage add the 30% and each missile now dose 659 with 4 missiles oer volly you have 2636 hp dammage per shot but with the missiles doing 129% dammage to armour we have now a base dammage of 3400hp per volly if you add a 10% dammage mod then you hit with 3740 hp per volly .
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2013.06.04 23:22:00 - [9] - Quote So in short if your armour tank has less than 7000 hp im giong to 2 or 3 shot it pending on resists. I have done this and will continue to do so. Just because you cant build an effective tank dosent mean no one els can.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 00:45:00 - [10] - Quote As I and yourself have pointed out reps and resist re the key to an armour tanks survival bit as I said I have been 3 shotting madrugers 2 shotts when iv got the drop on them . Allot of tank v tank comes down to pilot skill and awareness. I havent had problems with my builds and lets face it there is allot of weekend tankers out there.

pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 01:06:00 - [11] - Quote I woildent say all the pilots I melt arw un skilled it also helps that I run with a squad 90% of the time and have someone at least calling out tank and enimy positions constantly. Iv found the more aggressive my attack style is tge better off I tend to fair. As I said getting the drop on an enimy tank is half the vattle won.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 02:11:00 - [12] - Quote Ehem I never said anything about my squad carrying av norm 1 sniper and 1 gunner at least bit not norm av dont put worda in my mouth to validate your point. If you cant take out srmour tanks with your missiles your doing it wrong plain and simple so take your self righteous smugness and shove it.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 09:38:00 - [13] - Quote Harpyja wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Ehem I never said anything about my squad carrying av norm 1 sniper and 1 gunner at least bit not norm av dont put worda in my mouth to validate your point. If you cant take out srmour tanks with your missiles your doing it wrong plain and simple so take your self righteous smugness and shove it. While the armor rep is active, it can almost negate any damage missiles deal, while a shield booster can't negate even half of the damage a blaster can output. Stop trying to claim that shield tanking is balanced and its all about tactics... because its not. Armor tanks DO shine over shield tanks in everything. Like Eurydice said, they have better acceleration, more eHP, and better repping ability. Shield tanks are clearly underpowered. It's not about how you use them. End of discussion. Lol must die allot I your tank . Are you mad bro.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 09:55:00 - [14] - Quote Also when have 1 ever said that their was balance . Ill tell you never just chech anyof my posts in any of the other dozen shield tank balance threads.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 247	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:45:00 - [15] - Quote Id say the 30% is fine it just dosent run long enough 10s is nothing when you have a 30second cooldown. Id say 30% dammage reduction for 30 seconds and a 30second cool down that would make running 2 viable .
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 251	Posted - 2013.06.07 20:38:00 - [16] - Quote ladwar wrote: this is getting annoying. just so it is out there weapos/turrets that do 100% on both is forge guns, railguns, and orbitals (warbarge ones)(thats3 for people counting) ones that are more effective on armor are AV grenades, swarm launchers and missile turrets(that's 3 for people counting) ones that are more effective on shields are flux, plasma cannon and blaster turrets(that's also 3 for people counting) so everyone can see there are 3 for each. this does not count small arms fire because that's an infantry thing to worry about but I can add them if people want to argue over them. I was testing rail guns today and they do 89% dammage to armour and 109% dammage to shields so really its not that even as 20% more efficient against shields is quite a jump. Test it and see for yourself I didnt know the exact figure myself. Ill be testi g the efficiencys of all av against both shield and armour. Avnades excluded.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 252	Posted - 2013.06.07 21:38:00 - [17] - Quote Yep its really not balanced at all. I dont thunk were asking for much really . We just want shield tanking to be a bit more viable. None of us want invulnerability we just want at least a chance against the new god mode madrugers.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 260	Posted - 2013.06.08 14:56:00 - [18] - Quote Also they nerfed the dammage that kamakazi dropships do to my tank . Allways makes me laugh when they get that desperate lol. Back on point maby if they bring out a heavy passive regen module that would increase the passive regen to ~80-90 costing 42 cpu and 200-300 pg for balance. ?? Thoughts and oppinions of shield tankers and av sprcialists welcome.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 262	Posted - 2013.06.09 10:36:00 - [19] - Quote 2 dammage mods and a local powergrid expansion should give you enough pg for more shields.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 279	Posted - 2013.06.15 16:06:00 - [20] - Quote List of wepons and dammage some one help me with this . 1 forge guns and rail guns dish 109% dammage to shields and 89%-90% dammage to armour as do largeblaster turrets. 2 flux grenades do no dammage to armour and an unmesurable ammount of dammage due to how they work but if 1 fluxgrenade explodes under your gunlogi you will loose a minimun of 1300 shields (tried and tested via syncing up in faction.) Level1 flux. 3 plasma cannons I believe do 129% dammage to shields and 79-89% dammage to armour. ( not tested yet but will do when I have spare sp.) These numbers were taken from conversatiobs with trustable av specialists but I will test them any way. 4 av nades are 90% effective against shields and 129% effectice against armour as are any missiles. As you can see there is more weponry avaliable for taking down shields opposed to armour .

pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 279	Posted - 2013.06.16 14:59:00 - [21] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: pegasis prime wrote: List of wepons and dammage some one help me with this . 1 forge guns and rail guns dish 109% dammage to shields and 89%-90% dammage to armour as do largeblaster turrets. 2 flux grenades do no dammage to armour and an unmesurable ammount of dammage due to how they work but if 1 fluxgrenade explodes under your gunlogi you will loose a minimun of 1300 shields (tried and tested via syncing up in faction.) Level1 flux. 3 plasma cannons I believe do 109% dammage to shields and 89% dammage to armour. 4 av nades are 90% effective against shields and 129% effectice against armour as are any missiles. As you can see there is more weponry avaliable for taking down shields opposed to armour . Edited for correction of dammage for the plasma cannon thanks ladwar. Just quoting a good post. I like how the three main weapons for taking down armour are consolidated into just one point. Missiles (turrets and installations) do an incredible amount to armour. Swarm launchers also do much more to armour. The example I'm looking at is still AV grenades with a massive 40% difference between shield and armour damage, where the tow main killers have to add their differences to get the same. Seems very balanced to me. The only part where you really have a point is with flux grenades, but you're forgetting AV grenades again as they still do an astonishing amount to armour. You can solo an armour tank using AV grenades alone, you can't do this using flux grenades, you said so yourself: - GÇ£flux grenades do no dammage to armourGÇ¥ This means you either have to carry another AV weapon to take down that Gunnlogi, or a mass driver which can be fairly effective against vehicles (and infantry once fixed). Seems balanced to me. Ok lets count and compair wepons that do higher dammage to shields than they do armou Forge guns rail turrets blaster turrets plasma cannons flux nades so thats 5 wepons that do more dammage to shields Swarms missile turrets avnades all do mre dammage to armour than shield . So thats 3 wepon types . Still balanced .? Have you considerd that even the best fit shield tank also has less effective hp than even a mediocre madruger. Have you considered armour tanks have better reps and resists than shield tanks . Have you considerd armour tanks are faster than shield tanks. Still balanced ??? We dont want to be invincible we want shield tanking to at least be able to stand up to armour tanking. If you cant see the obvious then im sorr there is no helping you. I have over 13mill sp invested solely into tanking . I run a fully specked and skilld out falchion and I also run quite sturdy madrugers. I have seen both sides but armour tanki g has far less drawbacks to shield tanking.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 279	Posted - 2013.06.16 15:05:00 - [22] - Quote Sibri Vannikh wrote: Also fix the eHP values again. I-¦m not on DUST right now but several Gallente vehicles have up to 700 HP more eHP than their shield counterparts. EDIT: Gorgon: 2160 HP Viper: 1661 HP Grimsnes: 2400 HP Myron: 1845 HP Incubus: 2400 HP Phyton: 1845 HP Prometheus: 2862 HP Eryx: 2700 HP Baloch: 1210 HP Onikuma: 1040 HP Methana: 2641 HP Saga: 2325 HP Limbus: 3206 HP Charydbis: 2984 HP Abron: 1815 HP Callisto: 1460 HP Soma: 3651 HP Sica: 3463 HP Madrugar: 4750 HP Gunnlogi: 4500 HP Vayu: 4672 HP Falchion: 4632 HP Stats based on wiki.dust514.info These stats are the totall armour and shield of a naked fit . Even with shield extenders a shield tank that gets into armour is dead so we have much much lower ehp.