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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
61
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Posted - 2013.05.31 01:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The nature of the shield modules suggest burst tanking, but shields fail at that.
Armor reps are simply more powerful, combined with much better active hardeners.
If this was anything like EVE, shield tanks would be able to take an onslaught of AV and would casually stroll away before their burst tank stops. But obviously that's not the case as armor can take more damage than shield in a shorter amount of time. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
72
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Shield HAV with Missile Turret > Armor HAV with Blasters (especially if Shield tank bother to flank armor tank and shoot in his ***) So you're saying that a shield tank that's specifically built to take on armour-fitted vehicles should be reasonably expected to flank and go for the weak points to (just barely) get better than an even-odds chance against a vehicle fitted with an ANTI-INFANTRY weapon? You're right! That's totally balanced! Except that blasters are better for anti infantry. Armor is getting it all at the moment. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:This seems to be the order of things
Armour blaster beats shield blaster.
Shield missile beats armour blaster.
Shield rail beats armour blaster.
Shield missile beats armour missile
Armour rail beats everything
There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank. No, armor blasters beat shield missiles. I fought a corpmate with my missile Gunnlogi against his blaster Madrugar and I lost both times that we engaged. He wasn't even at half armor by the time I was dead, so something is clearly wrong. And we both had best fits possible and near max skills. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
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Posted - 2013.06.04 14:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Harpyja wrote:pegasis prime wrote:This seems to be the order of things
Armour blaster beats shield blaster.
Shield missile beats armour blaster.
Shield rail beats armour blaster.
Shield missile beats armour missile
Armour rail beats everything
There is expeptions to these general rules but they are normaly determind by pilot skill rather than just their tank. No, armor blasters beat shield missiles. I fought a corpmate with my missile Gunnlogi against his blaster Madrugar and I lost both times that we engaged. He wasn't even at half armor by the time I was dead, so something is clearly wrong. And we both had best fits possible and near max skills. You must be doing somthing wrong every time I meet a madruger with either my missile gunlogi or falconi its been toast . Use the range in the missiles to your advantage missiles far out range blasters. You have 250m optimum range before enforcer skills come into play. Yes but it doesn't help if missile accuracy is crap starting at mid range. So armor tanks just stroll in casually to their optimal range. Even when I'm trying to run away, shields being slower, they catch up quickly. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Shield tanking requirws allot of cunning and gurilatactics where armour tanking is more head on . Shield tanks lost that ability with Uprising. Armor tanks accelerate faster than shield and are faster. You can't outrun an armor tank. The slow acceleration on shields means that your best chance of running away is in the open with little obstacles, but then the armor tank has a clear view.
You act as if armor and shield tanks are balanced, but they are not. The difference between accelerated and frag missiles is too specialized. Accelerated missiles have too little splash area to be effective against infantry, while frags are more effective against infantry and inaccurate at range. You don't have to specialize like this with blasters or railguns.
Shield tanks need to be buffed. Increase splash area on missiles, improve their accuracy, make shield tanks rep more hp/s than armor to burst tank, and make an armor tank truly slower when plated and not about the same as a shield tank.
Also, armor tanks have luxury high slots, while shields have no luxury slots. So far only damage mods can be fit to shield tanks but with the PG nerf this is no longer possible, while armor has a great assortment of scanners, CRUs, and overdrives to go in the highs. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Caldari tanks are medium to long range support tanks , where as galenti tanks are close range killers . If you use each tank to its suggested role then you will do well . Try to overstrech that role and yoy have to be one good pilot. Then why don't we get railgun bonuses instead? Like I said before, you sacrifice too much for accuracy, while you don't have to sacrifice anything for accuracy for blasters and railguns.
Stop being so ignorant. Shield tanks need to be buffed. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 00:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:As I and yourself have pointed out reps and resist re the key to an armour tanks survival bit as I said I have been 3 shotting madrugers 2 shotts when iv got the drop on them . Allot of tank v tank comes down to pilot skill and awareness. I havent had problems with my builds and lets face it there is allot of weekend tankers out there. Perhaps you're just lucky enough to face unskilled pilots. I run away each time I see an armor tank. I recall my missile Gunnlogi if I can and call in a rail Gunnlogi so that I can snipe the armor tank from the redline. Or at least run as close to my redline as possible before I try to bombard with missiles. But if I have to do that then there clearly is no balance. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 02:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Ehem I never said anything about my squad carrying av norm 1 sniper and 1 gunner at least bit not norm av dont put worda in my mouth to validate your point. If you cant take out srmour tanks with your missiles your doing it wrong plain and simple so take your self righteous smugness and shove it. While the armor rep is active, it can almost negate any damage missiles deal, while a shield booster can't negate even half of the damage a blaster can output.
Stop trying to claim that shield tanking is balanced and its all about tactics... because its not. Armor tanks DO shine over shield tanks in everything. Like Eurydice said, they have better acceleration, more eHP, and better repping ability.
Shield tanks are clearly underpowered. It's not about how you use them. End of discussion. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 22:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
slap26 wrote:No Dev comments here yet.....
It's like they don't care about us vehicle drivers And when they do place one eye on the issue, all proposed and discussed suggestions by the player base will be thrown out the window and they will add in their own tweaks that will probably break the game further. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 22:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
slap26 wrote:Tankin Tarkus wrote:shield tanks still have the advantage when it comes to getting attacked by AV... the only things that do more damage to shield tanks than armor tanks are flux and orbitals everything else does the same or greater damage to armor Shield tanks have less EHP then armor tanks and therefore AV decimates shields much easier then armor. If you look to EVE, an actively tanked shield ship can often take a lot more punishment in a shorter amount of time than armor can.
I'm fine with giving armor more EHP, but shield should have stronger repping abilities.
It's beyond me why Dust is currently favoring armor tanks. |
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
92
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Posted - 2013.06.09 18:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:No time to read the whole thing but just my two cents: Shield may not be GÇ£as good asGÇ¥ armour, but almost all AV weapons are better against armour, the exception being the forge gun (who even uses those?) which I believe only does marginally better damage. I don't know where you're coming from but I've seen a lot of forges. Also because they are not as simple to use as swarms, forge gunners are usually good at what they are doing and typically use at least advanced forge guns. The proto assault forge gun can solo a well fitted and skilled Gunnlogi because its charge time is ridiculously fast with a 4 round clip dealing extensive damage, especially with damage mods.
But again, this is proto AV against standard HAV. We need proto vehicles to compete with proto AV. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
129
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Haven't read ANYTHING except the title.
I actually prefer the Caldari (Shield) Tanks over Gallente (Armor) Tanks.
If you look at the statistics and logic behind it all (Not just base health and turret type...), they're actually pretty pretty balanced. Example? Why, sure.
Shield: Hard to destroy with anything other than a pure AV weapons. Ex: Plasma Cannon, Turrets, Forge Gun. CONS: Once shield is gone, the vehicle is toast. Better bring some Armor Repairs.
Armor: Low Shield, but more eHP. However, it's a bit weak against all other AV weapons. I could break a Soma with a Mass Driver, if I had enough ammo (And I carry hives, so i do have enough Ammo...), so long as Shields are down. I can take out 1/3 of the Armor of the Soma with just one AV Grenade. It's just weaker against that stuff.
So yea. Balanced, although it seems otherwise. I just like to bring a Caldari Tank into the match because the shield is so hard to destroy, it gives me a chance to run before I get destroyed.
Let me quote Eurydice:
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Read any of the many many posts explaining how wrong you are, then kindly leave. At least let me show you how wrong you are before you rethink what you, Artificer Ghost, just said.
First off, you're plain wrong: they are not balanced. Example? The repping power of armor repairers is three times as strong as shield boosters.
Second, you have a crap shield fit if you have armor reps on it. Also, how on earth do you even fit one if your low slots are dedicated to boosting powergrid? In this instance both armor and shield tanks suffer from the nerf to powergrid, so buff both tanks at once by giving their powergrid back.
Third, sure armor has low shield, but that is not what an armor tank lives off of. It's simply a nice 1k hp pillow before your armor starts to get pounded.
Fourth, the Soma is a militia level tank. Try again with a Madrugar instead.
And last but not least, using a mass driver as an AV weapon? Really? What have people become now? What's next? "I want my scrambler pistol to be able to destroy a tank!" Any tank that's not driven by a monkey will have enough time to drive away because your nanohive stays in one spot and if you leave your nanohive, no more rounds for you to keep sending off.
Now, rethink what you said. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
129
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 02:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Well, I don't really get into all the crazy stuff. I focus on mechanics. I'm sorry. :(
I was thinking about weakness/strength. Honestly, I can't fit a vehicle for ****, but I use Armor Repairs on my Sica, and I rarely lose those. Congratz though, not a lot of people correct me. :D The only thing CCP has done right is giving the (sort of) right idea on what weaknesses and strengths are for armor and shields. But have they implemented them correctly? I think not. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
132
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 22:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Yotta Guns wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Sibri Vannikh wrote:Also fix the eHP values again. I-¦m not on DUST right now but several Gallente vehicles have up to 700 HP more eHP than their shield counterparts.
EDIT: Gorgon: 2160 HP Viper: 1661 HP
Grimsnes: 2400 HP Myron: 1845 HP
Incubus: 2400 HP Phyton: 1845 HP
Prometheus: 2862 HP Eryx: 2700 HP
Baloch: 1210 HP Onikuma: 1040 HP
Methana: 2641 HP Saga: 2325 HP
Limbus: 3206 HP Charydbis: 2984 HP
Abron: 1815 HP Callisto: 1460 HP
Soma: 3651 HP Sica: 3463 HP
Madrugar: 4750 HP Gunnlogi: 4500 HP
Vayu: 4672 HP Falchion: 4632 HP
Stats based on wiki.dust514.info These stats are the totall armour and shield of a naked fit . Even with shield extenders a shield tank that gets into armour is dead so we have much much lower ehp. plus the armor repairers are much, much better as well. :( much, much, much more Blaster Madrugar destroyed my missile Gunnlogi before I even got it down to 3/4 armor. And I got two missile volleys on him before he started shooting me...
Armor reps indeed are much much much better than shield boosters. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 16:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Whatever chaps, I'm sure with the excellent attitudes displayed in this thread you're sure to get a positive response...
For those saying armour reps are 3x as strong as shield, I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. The hp repaired by armour reps is 3x that of a shield booster, but armour reps have a pulse interval of 3.0 secs, where shield boosters have a pulse of 1.0 secs. Am I missing something?
As for armour tanks being faster than shield tanks, wtf are you smoking?
There are drawbacks and strengths to each, and as a killer (and occasional driver) of tanks, I see no problems. You may get wtfpwned by flux grenades, but let's be honest; how many people carry those over AV grenades and swarms? I want to know what YOU are smoking. Armor reps do three times more than shield boosters BECAUSE their pulse interval is 3 seconds vs the one second for shields. The HP repaired attribute is HP/s during each pulse interval, so your armor rep does 414hp every second for three seconds while shield boosters do something like 320 once every three seconds (hell I don't even know the exact number on shield boosters anymore because they are just that bad).
And armor tanks ARE faster. A corpmate of mine tested this with me and they accelerate much faster, then add a nitrous booster and it flies away from my shield tank. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 12:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP, please buff shield modules! With the upcoming pilot suits, armor will now almost permarun it's active hardeners. WTF
I demand 60% resist to the surges and my boosters doing 5000 shield in 5s. That is all |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
154
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
With the addition of pilot suits, armor tanks will now become I-Win buttons. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
202
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 05:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Harpyja wrote:RINON114 wrote:Whatever chaps, I'm sure with the excellent attitudes displayed in this thread you're sure to get a positive response...
For those saying armour reps are 3x as strong as shield, I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. The hp repaired by armour reps is 3x that of a shield booster, but armour reps have a pulse interval of 3.0 secs, where shield boosters have a pulse of 1.0 secs. Am I missing something?
As for armour tanks being faster than shield tanks, wtf are you smoking?
There are drawbacks and strengths to each, and as a killer (and occasional driver) of tanks, I see no problems. You may get wtfpwned by flux grenades, but let's be honest; how many people carry those over AV grenades and swarms? I want to know what YOU are smoking. Armor reps do three times more than shield boosters BECAUSE their pulse interval is 3 seconds vs the one second for shields. The HP repaired attribute is HP/s during each pulse interval, so your armor rep does 414hp every second for three seconds while shield boosters do something like 320 once every three seconds (hell I don't even know the exact number on shield boosters anymore because they are just that bad). And armor tanks ARE faster. A corpmate of mine tested this with me and they accelerate much faster, then add a nitrous booster and it flies away from my shield tank. That's not quite accurate; we'd have to test it with the Vayu against the Gunnlogi to get a proper spread of data. I would just like to point out, while I agree that shield tanks need a buff, that there might be more individual weapon types that deal more damage to shields, but one is far more likely to encounter those that deal bonus damage to armour, simply because of a: AV grenades don't take up a weapon slot b: swarms fit on medium suits and c: plasma cannons are gimped. Aww you got me :( |
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