Probably not, unless the design heads in a drastically different direction I'm really not all that interested... and with "expert" individuals like yourself gathering feedback (lol) I'm pretty sure it'll never go in that direction.

Have fun with bland mediocrity Aeon.

@ Mina

What would be the point of vehicles if you only got 3 FPS?

What would be the point of vehicles if v/av weren't balanced, and you got blown to bits in half a second by swarms instantly losing more than a full battle's worth of ISK, or conversely being so overpowered that people don't actually want to play in game modes with vehicles, or people just don't want to play at all because they don't want to deal with it?

This is a FPS first and foremost. They already have essentially 2 vehicle focused games in EVE and Valkyrie. If and when vehicles and AV are added, wouldn't it be best if they are added to an FPS game that isn't a power point, isn't broken by bugs and glitches (just look at the LAV glitch), and fits within the overall game play so that playing vehicles feels rewarding without being unfair?

Whether or not the game goes from project to product, it seems obvious they have their priorities straight.

To me, vehicles were a large part of what made dust interesting, despite their overall poor implementation, lack of roles and general inability to do things - I have friends who saw casual dust gameplay of me flying a dropship and went "Holy ****, that's so different from other shooters - you can actually choose that as a role not a temporary powerup!". If they're integrated from the start all three of those can be addressed - they can be an important asset and intended feature. The later you add them the more you run the risk of them being overpowered or useless and without a meaningful role.

I find that claiming dust to be a "FPS first and foremost" is somewhat dishonest, they had a lot of things that they wanted to try - and a lot of them were they to be embraced could actually make a great game, with meaningful multi-level gameplay. Stating that Nova should be a "FPS first and foremost" is IMO a bad idea because while it should have good FPS gameplay, it also gets rid of things that made dust unique and enjoyable. If you start at square zero with the idea that "I want this to be in a game, and I want it to be something that always has the potential to be useful", you can start with balance in mind.

Neither eve nor valkyrie are what I'm looking in terms of "vehicle gameplay", because one is a glorified naval spreadsheet sim (that I have played since somewhere around 2007 and let my sub lapse multiple times), and the other is a fighter-jet game (with rather expensive peripherals requried). Dust provided combined arms (not well, but it did provide it).

I get where your coming from. But I really think you should be a little more optimistic. The new interviews coming out say that they fully intend for there to be planetary conquest with vehicles.

The only caveat is that before they get to the "grand" ideas they want to make sure the game has a solid "foundation" to work off of. Think about it. How many times did you call in a tank for the drop ship to clip into a building and have it blow up? Or maybe you got a tank called in but your game hard froze because of performance issues. Or maybe you just couldn't get a good shot off because of how low the FPS were or maybe the graphics were so bad that your eyes started bleeding and couldn't see things perfectly. These were all issues that plagued dust.

I think its good of CCP to say "lets get the core done right first then add on more complex things" The core being game stability, fluidity, and first person shooter mechanics. This is a FPS after all. Then naturally if they want the game to gain any sort of identity they will add vehicle combat, planetary conquest, capital ship sieges and eve/nova links. Its kind of a necessity for them to do that in order for the game to be successful.

I really believe the only thing CCP has done wrong with nova so far was how they went about announcing it. They bungled the announcement. But the interviews that have come out since then have really redeemed them in my opinion.

This is a FPS after all.

As I've said so many times, vehicles need solid roles distinct from that of infantry. Those roles won't exist on the small maps CCP is starting out with. They will likely arrive when we see the large open maps and those look like they will come in when PC is added back.

The worst thing CCP could do is to throw in vehciles with nothing for them to do except compete with suits for infantry kills. That is what made them impossible to balance in DUST. Once game play gets more sophisticated those vehicle roles will emerge and CCP can build vehciles to match the those roles.

I suspect one of the first roles would be for a proper dropship to ferry troops across the large maps of planetary conquest. Troop transport was easily handled by running and drop uplinks in small DUST maps, killing the main role of the dropship right out of the gate. That's why CCPBlam created the ADS.

The need for a given vehicle MUST be in the game before the vehicle is implemented or we will repeat all the mistakes of DUST.

Read my last post. If this were a "real" New Eden we were talking about, we would start as one of the four races. We would be initially trained in that race's skills and diversify into the other races with training. It just doesn't make sense to start of "general" and then specialise.

As an aside, why do we even need to chose a race? We all inhabit generic clones that don't have racial characteristics after all. Yes we can choose racial tech, but we aren't bound by one of those either.

I suggest you to read game lore(https://dust514.com/media/fiction/).

There is no point in an MMO shooter without the MMO! I'd rather have none at all than a shooter like everyone else has, but with no MMO.

And you can't add MMO after the fact. It needs to be designed in from the start, or the limitations of what you've designed will limit what you can do later. If you DO add MMO later, you have to redesign.

The only way they can add MMO later is if they actually design it in from the start, but somehow make it passive. Do you see CCP doing that?

I was thinking about ways that they could help immerse the player in the universe of EVE and help them feel like they are in a living universe in which stuff is happening all the time. I also think it's important for Nova and EVE players to be aware of each other in the game.

It strikes me that there are plenty of opportunities for an EVE/Nova connection that would help to do this.

For example.

Drifter and Sansha incursions.
PVE matches that occur in the same systems that are currently experiencing incursions in EVE. Completion of these matches goes towards repelling the invasion in both games. A structure appears in EVE that EVE players can interact with to help Nova players. Perhaps EVE players can shoot it to momentarily disrupt the AI within the structure. Perhaps Nova players can blow something up to cause some of the AI in EVE to blow up, or to cause a valuable faction ship to appear, or to weaken a target structure.

Scope new items
The Scope news video that currently appears in EVE's captains quarters could also be used in the quarters of Nova players to expose players to the events in both games.

I have no problem with the notion that "DUST has classes" because each suit does different things. Sure, you could put a cloak of a Sentinel but it isn't going to do you any good and Commando is simply not going to be doing any kind of support without equipment.

But if the classes mean something akin to Titanfall, where it is "hmm, do I want this ability to jump higher, run faster, or run longer?" rather than "I have 5 high slots; what can I do with 'em?", I think that is disappointing.

Now, perhaps Rattati is talking to the press in a way that allows people who have never played DUST or EVE to understand how the 'classes' work without going into fittings. "We have 32 classes from small fast guys to big heavy guys with machine guns" is a lot easier to understand than "well, first you choose your chassis, then you choose your weapon, and then you put in your accessories into each slot that increases your effectiveness of the battle, but only after you have the correct training and you guys are lost now, huh?"

I am still cautiously optimistic but it seems like Rattati is so carefully tiptoeing around this. I have experience from Blizzard's Overwatch that the devs can just not be expecting a question so early into the game.

People were asking "is there going to be a cash shop for buying new Heroes?" because people were afraid that you would have to unlock each one. With a game designed around evolving to the match, having to unlock each Hero puts a huge disadvantage on your team if they don't have the right counters/picks. The leader dev said "we have no plans at the moment for a hero shop, at least not at launch."

People lost their minds because suddenly a game that you pay 40 dollars for doesn't have the content you need to actually play. The devs eventually clarified that "no, we are not selling heroes or maps. That is all included" and explained that the reason for the weird choice of wording is that, simply, "we were not expecting ANYONE to ask us how we were going to go about selling the game. We are barely looking into starting beta and people are already asking us about the store? We were caught off-guard."

We can only wait and see.

its not an MMO first of all. its flatout a lobby shooter.

they intend to add stuff later on that could make it feel more like a MMO.

What cr@p!!

Do you really believe that? Just because someone wrote it, that doesn't make it real, or right. It doesn't make sense. In the New Eden universe, people have one of 5 races, the Jovians being the extra one. We're not talking about the clones, here, but the people themselves. It's ridiculous to have "generic" people. Yes, generic clones make some sort of sense, but the people that inhabit them are certainly not going to be "generic".

There is no point in an MMO shooter without the MMO! I'd rather have none at all than a shooter like everyone else has, but with no MMO.

And you can't add MMO after the fact. It needs to be designed in from the start, or the limitations of what you've designed will limit what you can do later. If you DO add MMO later, you have to redesign.

The only way they can add MMO later is if they actually design it in from the start, but somehow make it passive. Do you see CCP doing that?

And that's the problem.

Vehicles did not fail in DUST because they weren't in right at the start. They failed because they had no job to do. They failed because they went in before the need for them arose, and that need was never created.

You didn't need the dropship because you never had to walk far enough that waiting for a pickup was worth your time.

You never NEEDED a tank because there was nothing a tank could do that infantry couldn't do. All anyone needed to do to win was kill infantry and hack points. Tanks couldn't even hack.

Since there was nothing to do but kill infantry vehciles defaulted to that role. Even the dropship got a gun glued to its nose and became the ADS. What do you get when you compete 1v1? You get balanced 1v1. Thus the great tank couldn't be any stronger than a single drop suit and it lost its essence. It simply became a lager, more expensive drop suit.

What have we been complaining about in DUST for years now? The base gameplay mechanics!
We ask, "What's the point of this EVE connection if I can't shoot? Why can't I step up onto that low curb in my heavy suit? Why am I still getting stuck on this damn hill???"

So CCP says, "OK, we are learning from our mistakes in DUST and we will fix that in the next go-around. We will focus on game play as our first priority before doing anything else. We will start with small maps and few distractions so we can get it right."

Then we freak out and assume that "start with" means "forever reduced to".

If you've ever been on a large project you know you have to start somewhere. I think they are starting in a very good place. Get the core mechanics working butter smooth so they don't detract from the experience as you build it out.

Yes they need to keep everything else in mind as they plan, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that they aren't.

Agree with this 100%.

Want to add that, valid roles aside, CCP never developed a consistent vehicle philosophy: it was a hybrid bucket-of-ehp/dynamic tanking model for the vehicles, but basic bucket-of-ehp counter-attack modes for AV infantry. It was doomed to fail, frustrating both vehicle pilots and AV infantry because of the fundamental disconnect in what variables controlled engagements(i.e primarily dynamic variables for vehicles vs. primarily static variables for infantry).

A couple of clarifications

It's a project, not a product. There are no guarantees that this is becomes a ccp game. Fanfest 2016 is a stepping stone for us like Valkyrie and Gunjack and prior Fanfests. That's a bit intimidating. Good that the response is quite positive in the Mission Debrief room where we have personally talked to the hundreds of players who tried it.

It's obviously 16v16, 6v6 for demo purposes

Obviously there is risk/reward, progression and customization, but no offense, not a carbon copy of the way it was in dust 514.

3 Classes (HEavy Support, Main Frontline, Light Recon) each of which branches into Vanguard/Sentinel, ASsault/Support, Sharpshooter/Infiltrator. Each of these 6 roles will branch into themed Faction Role Specializations (Amarr Sentinel = Templar) for a total of 32.

We are using feedback from 3 years of dust, fix the performance and the shooting mechanics. It's interesting to see the sentiment change over night. You should probably know by now that we have plenty of ambition, just want to do the right things in the right order.

An example of gameplay that we took the opportunity to fix on the way, basically just describing what we have at Fanfest, not what may come in the future.

There is now a Scan range circle on your minimap, its width is your scan range, and it's precision is a fall off curve, so ewar is no longer binary.

We also have dynamic scan profiles, crouching lowers, sprinting and firing raises

We also fixed all the FOV/tags/cloak overlaps, f.e.x there is no tag on your head, regardless of scanned status when cloaked

Double jump is enabled by a Gear called Jump Jets

In this build we have active infantry modules, but we will refer to them all as equipment. Plan is for way more play/counterplay with active reps/hardening/dmg mods so fights are less predictable. These mods will have cooldowns and icons on the HUD, familiar to vehicle users from dust

Grenades are equipment, you can toggle to them on the equipment to cook them or quick throw using G

Some VFX that may be lost in the frantic hands of players not familiar with dust

You can see the 5 states of shield on your glove, shield idle, shield shatter, shield starts to recharge, shield pulse and shield 100% filled, pretty nifty (also in third person)

Sniper has double zoom, and a delayed accuracy mode (no quick scoping)

Gatling Gun only has invert spread when zooming, making the two view modes completely different, allowing for pin point accuracy at mid to long range, full mayhem with hipfire at short to mid. Overheat bar circles the lower right quadrant of the reticule.

There is a 3d hit indication arrow replacing the red edge effect, so the shield/armor post process now works as a 2d indicator, for additional situational awareness.

Smart deploy now uses all Uplinks on the map /player, CRU, etc and tries to put you close to battle based on friends and enemies with the back as a last resort, it works quite well to put you near the action. You can also pick your location on the TacMAP

You see the role icon of the loadout you are aiming at (f.ex. if you are not sure if its a vanguard or a sentinel at long range)

There is probably some more stuff that I am forgetting. Gotta head back to Harpa.

What have we been complaining about in DUST for years now? The base gameplay mechanics!
We ask, "What's the point of this EVE connection if I can't shoot? Why can't I step up onto that low curb in my heavy suit? Why am I still getting stuck on this damn hill???"

So CCP says, "OK, we are learning from our mistakes in DUST and we will fix that in the next go-around. We will focus on game play as our first priority before doing anything else. We will start with small maps and few distractions so we can get it right."

Then we freak out and assume that "start with" means "forever reduced to".

If you've ever been on a large project you know you have to start somewhere. I think they are starting in a very good place. Get the core mechanics working butter smooth so they don't detract from the experience as you build it out.

Yes they need to keep everything else in mind as they plan, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that they aren't.

Read my last post. If this were a "real" New Eden we were talking about, we would start as one of the four races. We would be initially trained in that race's skills and diversify into the other races with training. It just doesn't make sense to start of "general" and then specialise.

Sorry, I don't agree. This just doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather see people have limited choice by starting with one race, based on their choice of what race fits their own personal ethic or that of the character they are building. Then as they advance, they can train into the other races.

If they truly decide they want to actually START in a different race, they can just reset or restart a new character. What's being proposed is a move AWAY from EvE and its structure, in favour of making it "simpler" for new players, which I don't think it really does.

Integration of everything from the start is the only way to make sure it's right by the end. Even if they don't have vehicles right at the start, they have to at least plan for them.

Same with the EvE link and MMO aspects I'm always on about. They have to be designed in from the start because they are too fundamental to the design if they are going to exist at all.