And everyone else is using what? Ten minutes? Of course not you belligerent ass, were all relatively experienced players too.

As has been said before, by myself and others including HAV pilots, the issue doesn't seem to stem fro! HAVs being incapable of engaging the ADS, but with your abilities as the HAV operator.



That's not even vaguely what I'm saying. What I am saying is that the HAV/ADS situation is already 1v1 but you seem to be blaming poor abilities on the game.


Ok, fine, but that's not the case right now, so if that's an issue later then surely later is when we need to make a change. Since currently the issue is not the HAV/ADS balance, but your perceptions and abilities.


Indeed, which is why its only a single example, which you said yourself is not proof. It is just that: an example. How about you show us examples of your problem instead of constantly saying its not good?

You guys just don't understand how hard it is to fly a drop ship these days, even when you have them makes out.
I don't care what anyone says swarms are op! I always find it funny as well that there's normally always more than one guy. This means that you fly over a building and suddenly your dead from two sets of invisible swarms hitting you simultaneously, of course you then turn your shield booster on but then wait... You get hit by the swarms again because they have managed to fire three rounds by the time you've gotten 150m away. Then of course you can't out run them... But I suppose it must be really hard to aim with those things... Point in the general direction and hold r1. Python down :(

Proto tanker
Proto forger
Proto ads
PC regular



From my wide experience in this field it's honestly a non issue. The only way a dropship can get into that sort of position is if the tanker is way outside his teams support range, there are no installations on the field, no other enemy vehicles, no obstacles or buildings or roofs, no av present and the tank concerned is fit poorly or caught with modules down.

With a rep tanked madrugar it's actually almost impossible to die to an ads unless you stand still and let it empty most of its ammo reserves into you. As a python, ever since the rof nerf I am unable to take down madrugars simply because In the time I reload they can rep up again. A gunnlogi is a little easier to kill if it has no modules available, however my hardened gunnlogi would take a minute+ to kill, in which time I would most definitely be in cover or in my redline.

The ads is far from a gunship given its lack of sufficient firepower and ehp in most engagements, it can't stand up to a proto forge or swarm for more than a few av shots, let alone hover tanking all sorts of av. From a pc perspective, I tend to lose 3/5 pythons a match due to the fact that tanks and av can kill me within 3-4 shots individually, and when combined the ads turns into a joke.

Nonetheless, pilots are resilient, and I and a minute portion of the community continue to fly in the hope for change in the future.
And in conclusion your argument only applies to extremely rare situations where the tank is seemingly isolated without any cover around or team mates.

So even though it's the very near future, It's a non issue, since it's not current balance?

Also, you said my reasoning is flawed. Show me examples Of Rocket and blaster HAV's being able to reasonably defend itself from an ADS. I haven't seen such.

As for the edit: again, I can't, as I can't record. I've said this several times. Again, show me that I'm wrong. I haven't seen a HAV being able to defend against a pilot without waiting for help from teammates, and relying or even requiring teamwork to handle a single person is broken.

Considering there are far more changes than simply the Missile turret change, the. yes. HAVs are being changed significantly, like UHAVs being far tougher and being teamwork focused. An ADS is teamwork focused also, the only reason you don't see people being transported is because of other reasons.

A UHAV under the new stats will be pretty damn resilient to an ADS, and the current HAVs are already resilient enough to make them spend a long time trying to kill a half awake HAV operator. So yes, current balance is petty close to fine, and the next stage of balance is going to favour more HAVs than ADSs, the only outlier being the DHAV, which has additional speed and mobility to protect itself.



First, why will you refuse to find a video that someone else made? I did it, why can't you? You're the one campaigning for unnecessary change: provide reasons and evidence to support them.

You're campaigning for a change to how the game operates. The onus is on you to prove why it is needed.

Marauders aren't going to be the only HAV in the game, Enforcers will have even more trouble, and HAV's will still have a hard time dealing with them, and even then, with enough time, ADS will still be able to kill a Marauder.

EDIT: Before I forget, Enforcers won't have nearly enough speed to counter not being able to shoot at targets. Hell, since it goes faster, it'll be even easier to hit it.

I'm not arguring about time. Time doesn't really matter. THIS EXISTING IS. If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

I've looked for some, haven't found any. You try finding some, I'm tired of looking.

I've also tried putting myself in situations where I could in fact try and avoid a ADS, but either one doesn't show up, or something else fights me beforehand, making it have a easy time killing me in a short period of time.

Well, considering that not only myself but several other HAV users have come in saying that they do not find the situation as difficult as you do, again, maybe you should consider that - since you seem to be pretty much alone in your position - that maybe you're looking at the whole thing wrong?

Seeing as all of you have been using pretty much the same three arguments:
1: Have a teammate help you
2: Hop out with AV and deal with it yourself
3: Drive forwards and backwards

and I've pointed out that all three of those things are counter able, and on top of that fundamentally flawed. You've yet to cite ANYTHING ELSE that's valid. You've shown not a single example in which a HAV can reasonably deal with a ADS other than rails, one vs. one, and usually, they have to sit in the redline for that to even be valid (because some maps are small as hell, but that's map balance).

Again, I have asked for two things:
Higher turret elevation, specifically for rockets and mostly for blasters as they simply can't engage ADS's within their intended optimals compared to Rails.
A drop in ADS flight ceiling so they can't simply avoid Rails and other long ranged targets past their optimals and make them unable to deal with them.

I've also asked for SEVERAL ADS and DS buffs, ways to reward them better, etc., because as I said, they are broken, not OP. Yet you make it seem like I only want them to be trash so HAV's can simply better. No you **** nut, I want to be able to not have a ADS follow me around the map, being able to engage me easily, disengage and reengage whenever they please due to high regen (especially on Pythons currently, and when active reps comes back for the Incubus).

But it seems you think otherwise. Reasonable defense seems to not be what you want. SO I can only assume two things:
1: You clearly don't know what the **** you're talking about.
2: You are a ADS pilot that pretends to be a HAV pilot as well, and just wants ADS's to be OP.
Either way, you're a idiot.

I'm willing to bet that this guy has only ever been killed by an ADS maybe once or twice, and as soon as he did he came to the forums to whine and complain.

I die to ADS every now and then, but since they were nerfed I've not been soloed a single time.


Not one. single. time.

They can't break through my hardened shields before I do haxx0r things like hiding under buildings, or moving next to a turret, or have a friend with a swarm launcher.

Most of the time he dies because I can shoot him from way further than he can shoot me. If I'm in a tank, and he's in an ADS, he is now forced to pay all his attention to me, and I can do whatever I want.


All he can do is finish me when actual AV whittles me down.


Your argument seems to be this, and I am honestly trying to summarise it in as beneficial (to you) a way as possible: the speed and mobility of a dropship, combined with its killing power and the dead-zone above a HAV make it incredibly easy for an ADS to kill a HAV with no chance of retaliation.
Is that a reasonable summary?

Now, I absolutely concede all of those points except the last one are accurate. Terrain makes it easy to avoid a dropship, and when it's trying to remain in the deadzone it's straight-forward to fox it back and forth. ADSes are also a popular target for infantry players to shoot, because they have serious issues hiding.
So yes, if you allow an ADS to take position above you while you're well and truly out in the open (and therefore pretty incompetently positioned, as far as I'm concerned), it might be able to solo you - but that's what countermeasures (like hardeners) are for. It should not be able to destroy you through a hardener, considering the enormous amount of cover around.

Once that ADS accepts that he's going to have to stay out in the open to destroy you, he's meat. If he stays in your deadzone someone else can kill him (hell, carry a forge gun in your tank - you can survive a direct hit and make him back off) and if he leaves, well, he's now primary target.

If that's not a good enough (anecdotal) refutation for your (anecdotal) assertion, I want to see some numbers to back up your argument so I can counter those instead.

Ok...

Here's an idea...we make the Turret Angle inversely proportional to Turret Range? (For the main Turrets)...

So Rails have a low upward angle
Missiles have a medium upward angle
Blasters have a high angle

Additionally, I maintain that the Top Gun on the HAV hull should have a better upwards angle.

Seeing as I fly them, I den this.

Also you say swarms. This has nothing to do with swarms.

Again, as I said like 10 pages ago, jumping out of a HAVV to defend it isn't valid. the ADS can easily kill you that way, and soon enough, that won't even be a thing with enter/exit delays.

Otherwise, that would mean that you're implying that the HAV has to use teamwork to deal with a ADS, in which

1: That's broken

2: You can't rely on teamwork. Bluedots are ******* useless.

Marauders aren't going to be the only HAV in the game, Enforcers will have even more trouble, and HAV's will still have a hard time dealing with them, and even then, with enough time, ADS will still be able to kill a Marauder.

I'm not arguring about time. Time doesn't really matter. THIS EXISTING IS. If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

I've looked for some, haven't found any. You try finding some, I'm tired of looking.

I've also tried putting myself in situations where I could in fact try and avoid a ADS, but either one doesn't show up, or something else fights me beforehand, making it have a easy time killing me in a short period of time.

EDIT: Before I forget, Enforcers won't have nearly enough speed to counter not being able to shoot at targets. Hell, since it goes faster, it'll be even easier to hit it.

So the fact that ADS can kill tanks after a minute of shooting and reloading is broken and needs to be stopped?

It will take even longer to take down a marauder because they have so much HP, and if the tanker can't escape into the redline or hide somewhere safe in that time then they should not be seen as a tanker, more like a noob on wheels.

Hiding under a bridge doesn't save you, they can drop altitude.

Noone expects you to work with bluedots. If you want teamwork, run in a squad and don't tank alone. You won't find many (if any) people who ADS without a squad helping to take out AV.

Also, you'll find that a large majority of tankers can either escape ADSs (by driving into the redline or simply hiding under a roof), kill the ADS (by either jumping out with AV - which despite how much you say it isn't, it is a valid way to defend your tank from ADS - or just shooting the ADS out of the sky).

Personally I've shot ADS out of the sky countless times while they were flying over my tank, and not just with rails, either that or I've escaped them by looking for the nearest thing with a roof or large buildings to make it harder for the ADS to follow. If you're having so much trouble with ADS, then run in groups of 2 or more, that way if one of you is being attacked by an ADS from your blind spot (which is a valid counter to tanks) then the other tank can shoot the ADS out of the sky.

2: Blasters and Rockets won't simply "shoot them down" in their optimals. That only applies to Rails really, and that assumes you're on one of the larger maps, or not flying at max height.

Can you just try to put 2 and 2 together then...

tank under bridge, can't be hit from deadzone.

ads lowers altitude...

ads is now in missiles tanks (and every other kind of large and small turrets) ... What?



I'll help you here. It's in the OPTIMAL



Now that you've found 1 way to escape, hide, heal your shields and be able to fire back at anything trying to shoot you. Try and use the examples other people have given you. Try these out in a few matches. Not 1 match, because apparently 1 doesn't prove anything.

You'll get there, if you try, you may become a half decent tank scrub, like the rest of us.

Missile tanks actually seem to be the anti DS tank right now. They kill me the most often because they have great damage application at range if youre distracted and or hovering, plus their elevation is actually quite nice. I had one guy today prop himself up on all sorts of little ridges and totally denied me getting anywhere near him. He also defended his blaster installations from me so I was forced off of one side of the map, with him occasionally coming out after me and knocking my ship around if I tried doing anything useful.

I died a lot that match haha

You're doing it wrong then. I've only died to the great bolas and rails so far.

Guys. Please keep it civil and constructive. Otherwise I will have to lock this down. Thank you.