DUST Search - Why are ADS's acting as if they are Gunships?

Godin Thekiller wrote:

Hiding under a bridge doesn't save you, they can drop altitude. The other two implies hat you have to use teamwork to deal with them. What don't you understand about that? Are you a broken record?

That's the gist of it, sorta. It's not super easy, it's unreasonably easy (looking at how many kills I've had so far), or more so, unreasonably hard for the HAV to fight back. All the things people's said to do I've been able to counter in my ADS by simply orbiting them in a really small circle (that's some hard **** to do though), or slow down (depends on how they're doing it).

Also, as I've pointed out already, carrying AV as the pilot simply won't work. enter/exit delays will probably come soon, and that greatly exposes you. On top of that, you can easily kill someone who does that (whenever it happens in both my HAV or ADS it's a easy kill), and make them lose even more ISK on top of their hull. That's not only seriously dangerous, that's downright foolish.

Also, you've only pointed out anecdotal evidence for why they're fine, a lot of which proving my point in the first place (having to force teamwork just to deal with them, or otherwise not really being able to, because whatever you do, they can counter).


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Lorhak Gannarsein nos nothi 4256	Posted - 2015.02.09 09:36:00 - [1] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: If you don't get why some tanks are in the redline, you don't get the current issue with AV atm. A bit off topic, but I'm going to have to get you to describe what the 'current issue with AV at the moment" (woah redundancy!) is? Because I don't get why some tanks are in the redline. Well, here goes nothing!!!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4266	Posted - 2015.02.11 07:48:00 - [2] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Trying to inject reason into this topic just meets with Godin's stonewall resistance to anything that doesn't immediately and utterly conform to his warped vision of the game. It's a waste of time trying to contribute to a Godin thread. Better to just troll it. Especially cos he's clearly a bad. I mean, what was that? "Should only take one guy to kill one guy?" I can basically guarantee that Godin has begged for HAV to be equal to 2+ AV in the past (can't be arsed searching, though). Hell, I have begged such myself (though not since tank prices got cut). I don't understand why he thinks that his blaster tank should be able to kill anything that comes within its range. If it outmanouevres him, he loses. If he tracks it efficiently, it dies. Hard. If he doesn't feel like it, he ought to try the turret that was so good against ADS that they nerfed its range (i.e. Large Railgun). Wrecks them. Isn't hard to get the shots off, again, unless you're terribad. And to be quite honest, I find it easiest to kill DS and ADS with an Ishukone AFG, far more so than even my damage modded Particle Cannon. I still think we should change the name to gunship. Well, here goes nothing!!!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4273	Posted - 2015.02.12 00:45:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Trying to inject reason into this topic just meets with Godin's stonewall resistance to anything that doesn't immediately and utterly conform to his warped vision of the game. Most people who has come in here has used the exact. same. argument. How about you stop asking to be broken? That argument (using terrain, inertia, etc) is not invalid, despite your constant complaints. The ADS is not broken. The only thing broken is your reasoning. so you're saying that a ADS can't move not at full speed to be able to easily turn faster than the HAV can stop and go, and that you can't simply climb to avoid hills while still being able to aim, both actual ways to combat an ADS? Prove it. I've only seen otherwise. Also, Being able to deal with a single person with one single person is broken? How. So let's say you shoot down the ADS from 250 metres with a Large Railgun. Does not the ADS, who has no opportunity for retaliation, and really, not all that much opportunity to escape, either, get to complain that they can't deal with a single person with one single person? Well, here goes nothing!!!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4275	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:11:00 - [4] - Quote @Godin, you say 'only `1/3 of fits can deal with DS''. Well, my missiles have no problem either. So that's 2/3rds. Now, blasters have a problem dealing with ADS thanks to dispersion and range, but ADS blasters have a problem dealing with HAV thanks to damage output so i'm willing to call that fair. Unless you're just complaining cos you're using the wrong tool for the job? NB: I am deeply intoxicated at the moment, excuse spelling+grammar errors, I have been correcting literally (and yes, I mean that in its dictionary definition) every single word. Well, here goes nothing!!!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4281	Posted - 2015.02.13 07:01:00 - [5] - Quote I die to ADS every now and then, but since they were nerfed I've not been soloed a single time. Not one. single. time. They can't break through my hardened shields before I do haxx0r things like hiding under buildings, or moving next to a turret, or have a friend with a swarm launcher. Most of the time he dies because I can shoot him from way further than he can shoot me. If I'm in a tank, and he's in an ADS, he is now forced to pay all his attention to me, and I can do whatever I want. All he can do is finish me when actual AV whittles me down. Your argument seems to be this, and I am honestly trying to summarise it in as beneficial (to you) a way as possible: the speed and mobility of a dropship, combined with its killing power and the dead-zone above a HAV make it incredibly easy for an ADS to kill a HAV with no chance of retaliation. Is that a reasonable summary? Now, I absolutely concede all of those points except the last one are accurate. Terrain makes it easy to avoid a dropship, and when it's trying to remain in the deadzone it's straight-forward to fox it back and forth. ADSes are also a popular target for infantry players to shoot, because they have serious issues hiding. So yes, if you allow an ADS to take position above you while you're well and truly out in the open (and therefore pretty incompetently positioned, as far as I'm concerned), it might be able to solo you - but that's what countermeasures (like hardeners) are for. It should not be able to destroy you through a hardener, considering the enormous amount of cover around. Once that ADS accepts that he's going to have to stay out in the open to destroy you, he's meat. If he stays in your deadzone someone else can kill him (hell, carry a forge gun in your tank - you can survive a direct hit and make him back off) and if he leaves, well, he's now primary target. If that's not a good enough (anecdotal) refutation for your (anecdotal) assertion, I want to see some numbers to back up your argument so I can counter those instead. Well, here goes nothing!!!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4283	Posted - 2015.02.14 10:03:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Hiding under a bridge doesn't save you, they can drop altitude. The other two implies hat you have to use teamwork to deal with them. What don't you understand about that? Are you a broken record? That's the gist of it, sorta. It's not super easy, it's unreasonably easy (looking at how many kills I've had so far), or more so, unreasonably hard for the HAV to fight back. All the things people's said to do I've been able to counter in my ADS by simply orbiting them in a really small circle (that's some hard **** to do though), or slow down (depends on how they're doing it). Also, as I've pointed out already, carrying AV as the pilot simply won't work. enter/exit delays will probably come soon, and that greatly exposes you. On top of that, you can easily kill someone who does that (whenever it happens in both my HAV or ADS it's a easy kill), and make them lose even more ISK on top of their hull. That's not only seriously dangerous, that's downright foolish. Also, you've only pointed out anecdotal evidence for why they're fine, a lot of which proving my point in the first place (having to force teamwork just to deal with them, or otherwise not really being able to, because whatever you do, they can counter). When he drops altitude he is now in my optimal. I need to use teamwork to deal with him if he's not in my optimal. If I didn't need to use teamwork to deal with him outside my optimal, well, that implies that he can't deal with me when I'm in his, and therefore he's underpowered. I think our main disagreement comes here. I don't see why my HAV should be able to deal with an ADS under all circumstances with all weapons, and I consider, under these conditions, escaping counts as a win - especially considering that it's extremely easy for me to kill him once I know he's there. Well, here goes nothing!!!