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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
706
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Posted - 2015.02.06 17:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can't think of the last time an ADS took out my tank. I think it was back in the days before swarm launchers existed and there were enough people willing to fly them on both teams regularly.
I'm gonna be honest here. 1v1 I'd rather be in the tank (and I don't carry swarms in mine.) Missiles can look up, I can scare away an ADS with a lot less effort than I put in to scare away a tank, when I'm in the ADS.
You gotta learn to maneuver the tank and outwit the pilot. A dropship doesn't turn that well, it can point it's turret sideways and it can't shoot you in first person without moving forwards.
At best an ADS can stay out of range, but in a fight, if you do the right things, it wont kill your tank and you wont even have to go to the redzone.
Also if an ADS isn't meant to be a gunship... Why do I have to fit a turret on it? |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
712
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Posted - 2015.02.08 17:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
If you can't track the sluggish movements of a HAV moving forward and backwards, I'm sorry, but you need to practice. That's simply all it comes down to.
If you can't out-think the dropship pilot when in a tank, I'm sorry, but you need to stop whining and get some practice.
Yes there are bad tankers that make it easy to kill them with a dropship. In the same way there are bad pilots that can't track a tank going backwards and forward.
Godin Thekiller wrote:
Life is harsh, deal with it.
Mary Sedillo wrote:I fly ADS and shoot them down with relative ease with a double/triple damage-mod rail tank from afar while they are engaging infantry. I can two shot even well equipped ones before he can engage after-burners.
L2Patience and Strategy.
I'm not sure a redzone rail-tank is the best answer here, since the redzone is a problem that needs solving. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
716
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Posted - 2015.02.08 21:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
3: Explain that to the 37 HAV's I've killed in the last 3 days then.
Read it here 37 HAV's he's killed in the last 3 days... You're not very good at tanking. Much like this guy.
Good enough? |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
718
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Posted - 2015.02.09 00:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:True Adamance wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Broken mechanics do not justify other bad mechanics. JLAV's huh? legitimate strategy Not really..... being able to deal 10554 explosive AV damage on a magic guided missile for potentially only the cost of your Remote Explosives. At one point it was one broken mechanic to control another broken mechanic. All it is now is is yet another reason the Armour HAV is worse than useless.
Bull twoddle, both HAV's can avoid being blown up with ease by a JLAV, it's even been nerfed down to the point that you can only have 5 remotes at a time on it. All but 2 will disappear if you change suits. Basically now JLAVing takes more skill than anything as you actually have to avoid blowing up on the hardener.
Not to mention, a beefy JLAV was the only real counter to redzone tanks in the game, now they have a free for all at the back half of the map (which on half the maps is the whole god damn area.)
Still don't get why so many people couldn't just reverse the tank. I've seen about 2 JLAV's coming at my tank since the nerf and I'm hellishly bored at the lack of them, they were fun to deal with! Because they kept you on your toes & were so damn easily countered. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
723
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
You seem to think HAV's can easily counter pretty much everything when it's known that said things can in fact counter the counter.
They can...
Infantry - Small blaster beats swarms and forgers. Scout tries to run around you, you reverse, switch and fire.
Multiple AV - You see something coming at you, you harden and you run keeping as much terrain between you and them as you can, small mounds in the ground will soak up swarms and a forge has a lot less to aim at. Come back later and try to take them from cover with range.
JLAV - You move directly away from them, the jeep doesn't detonate, they can't jump out and detonate before you're out of range and it also leaves them as easy prey. When they try to go around the side and get behind you change direction. All the while looking for the opportune moment to blast them to oblivion, 1 hit on a remote does it, failing that it's a friggin' LAV they don't have decent hp.
Large Turret Installation - Anything other than rails, you keep a distance. Unmanned rails are useless, manned rails are useless because you go round to where the dropsuit is and pop it.
Enemy Tank - Take 'em from behind to deal stupid damage. Expect a hardener (if they don't have one they're screwed anyway) make them waste it, then avoid using yours as long as you can dodge the shots. Always try to out maneuver them, the harder you are to hit the more ammo they'll waste. Damage avoided is better than damage tanked.
Or be a rail ***** and shoot from out of their range with easy escape to the redzone, this is for the unskilled.
This is the big one!
Dropship - So many ways... Blow them out of they sky before they see you coming. Use Large turret installations to your advantage, position yourself so either you or the turret is able to hit them. Use buildings and such to force them to one side or limit their effective locations. Be unpredictable, yes back and forward is easy to hit, but not if you have to guess when and where the tank is chosing to move, you can taunt them into flying too far forward, then they fly up and by the time they've got you back in the sights your shields are back at full, you can buy time to get to a turret, hide under something, get to the redzone, or just bore them to death/maybe they run out of ammo, there are sooooooo many ways to deal with a dropship depending on the map.
Sorry for the wall 'o' text, but people never seem to use things that are really quite obvious... Feel free to come at me with a dropship, if you don't have backup, you wont do much. Yes things can be countered and double countered, that's where the 'out-thinking' an opponent comes in. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
737
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Posted - 2015.02.09 18:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:meanwhile a swarm user isn't going to trip up on a rock and die...
That would be hilarious to read on the kill feed. [so and so] - tripped and died on a small rock. What a way to go, a truly brave clone.
DUST Fiend wrote:Its almost as if the ship has guns for assaulting
No bro, my turrets are just there for show, that's why no one uses them properly (if they even spawn in my derpship at all, lol.)
Mary Sedillo wrote:
Redzone is a necessary staging point and safe area for infantry and vehicles. I've played PvP games such as Starhawk which had NO safe zone and it is a FAR less enjoyable experience.
I don't see them as necessary, everyone is 'safe' at the start of a battle (excluding PC with eve support, but redzone does nothing against that.) Teams that get pushed into the redzone have already lost the rest of the battle field and are unlikely going to have any chance in the match anyway, this has nothing to do with proto pub stomps, it's simply due to a bad team, in the same way me getting downed by 6 av at once is my mistake and also the rest of my teams mistake if they don't manage to take advantage of the extra 'anti-infantry' manpower that they have during that time.
Once the match is under way, you should have your team creating safe places to bring in people on the map, which is easier on the maps with a large playable area (almost always unused space you can hide spawns and call vehicles in from.)
With more spawns spread across the back of the maps, we wouldn't need the red zone, because camping 4 spawns isn't going to be possible by 1 proto squad.
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
If were talking a multi gun ADS, then that is making multiple other sacrifices: multiple turrets = less HP and a greater vulnerability to high alpha damage, as well as a lower time in a dangerous area (which, again, is lower than what Godin seems to be claiming) for the benefit of greater fire power, yet also requires more resources (ie, two players.)
We also ignore the fact that 2 or 3 turrets in a an ads can only point the same direction when facing forwards, forcing the pilot to always be pointing the nose at the ground if they want to take care of a tank... Orrrr hovering low (well within the range of a close by rail tank) to avoid having to float forwards at quite a speed and pullup after to avoid crashing.
Better also ignore that the side turrets on a dropship will jump to front facing if you try to look too far down as well.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
754
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Posted - 2015.02.11 23:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well this is going full circle again, so how about...
Someone post a video of them single handedly downing a 'SKILLED' HAV pilot, using a single ads.
or
Someone post a video of a tank escaping a single ads.
Until this happens, nothing is solved. Because no one will budge on their opinions.
I only wish I could do it myself and show you just how simple it is to evade an ads using a tank. But until then, feel free to run an armour rep maddi, those things take so long to down, that you can slowly wander back to the redzone. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
755
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Posted - 2015.02.12 00:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
a single video wouldn't not solve anything
So it would solve it then o.O?
You state repeatedly that a HAV can't escape an ads, or even stop it from landing hits.
You state that if an ads pilot can't down a HAV then the pilot is bad.
You refuse to accept that a HAV pilot that can't evade it, somehow isn't as bad as the ads pilot that can't hit the HAV.
You make no sense to me. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
761
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:the only turret that can reasonably defend against a ADS is a rail in its optimal, and that's if a ADS is flying at a decent height. A blaster or Rocket can't.
You've got it completely ass backwards. Missile tank is my main tank... I deal with ADS on a daily basis. I don't camp the redzone, unless I'm trying to blow my way out of it, so I can say with some certainty an ads is near 0 threat by itself to my tank. I can dodge enough shots to let my shields regen without even activating the hardener most of the time.
Yes you can't look up at an ads that's so high it's not seeing or doing anything. Yes you have to work a bit to get into a position where you can aim at the ads. When an ads is in the sights of a missile tank (and you can aim) you will hit them with so many god damn rockets, it wont be able to fly away until you're done. If it survives then it's once again off doing nothing. Repeat until it dies.
This is ignoring (as you already have) the fact that you can force the ads into positions (without use of teammates) with buildings and BLASTER INSTALLATIONS <---------- These are deadly to an ads. Simply park up near it and the ads is no threat what so ever. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
764
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 18:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Hiding under a bridge doesn't save you, they can drop altitude.
Can you just try to put 2 and 2 together then...
tank under bridge, can't be hit from deadzeon.
ads lowers altitude...
ads is now in missiles tanks (and every other kind of large and small turrets) ... What?
I'll help you here. It's in the OPTIMAL
Now that you've found 1 way to escape, hide, heal your shields and be able to fire back at anything trying to shoot you. Try and use the examples other people have given you. Try these out in a few matches. Not 1 match, because apparently 1 doesn't prove anything.
You'll get there, if you try, you may become a half decent tank scrub, like the rest of us. |
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
775
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Posted - 2015.02.14 00:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:You can easily go to whatever the turret is not facing, and shoot them on that side, rise up and go to the other side if they aim at you, rinse and repeat.
And although if you get lucky with a Rocket turret and hit them (but if that's the case, that's ADS pilot error, not the HAV actually countering them), blaster turrets won't have near enough DPS to deal with them, and although that's changing in this rebalance, it probably still won't be enough, seeing how fast ADS's climb.
And on top of that, there's like, what, three maps that has cover like this?
Like I said, whatever a HAV can do, ADS can counter.
Why is it luck that the missile tanker kept an eye on the radar and pointed the turret the right direction... But apparently the ads having no indication of which way the tanks turret is facing, isn't?
There are more than 3 maps that have something you can park a tank under to force an ads to drop altitude if it wants to hit you.
While the ads changes it's position you are free to heal your tank, or make a break for somewhere else, either to escape or to be able to fire at the ads as it tries to pull up.
Godin Thekiller wrote:A question to all: Why is it bad to not want to have to rely on teamwork?
I haven't mentioned teamwork. I mentioned all the things you can do to beat a dropship using a missile tank.
You stated that a tank cannot escape or fight an ads, I have told you that you can by simply out-thinking the opponent, the same as the ads has to out-think the tanker to get into their blindspot if the tanker is using it's brain.
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Everyone, let's all whenever you see Godin Thekiller in a match, immediately get an ADS out and try to kill him with it as much as possible.
YOU DUG YOU OWN GRAVE
No!
I will bring out a missile tank. He wants proof, if I can give him it, he might actually shut up... Or go on to say "it only happened once, so I'm disregarding it because my opinion is better than everyone else." |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
776
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Posted - 2015.02.14 00:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:If you can't understand that, either you simply don't care, your head is so far up your ass that you simply can't get it, or you simply refuse to get it.
Kind of what we all think to you dismissing everything that has been said by, what must clearly be better vehicle users than yourself, as we can deal with these things on our own without crying about it.
Just one more example.
You run up close to a HMG and you fight it in it's optimal with an assault suit. What happens?
- You outplay the HMG or the HMG is really bad at their role and you kill them.
- You get your arse handed to you.
- You realise it's a bad idea to fight them there and you make a break for it and engage from range, giving you the easy win.
Point being at range a tank has the upper hand, up close a tank has to do one of these:
- You outplay the ads and find a way to force it lower so you can blow the crap out of it.
- You get your arse handed to you, albeit very slowly.
- You realise it's a bad idea to fight them there and you make a break for it and engage from range, giving you the easy win.
Tank counters ads at range, at range ads can do nothing to anyone. Up close ads counters tank, your mission as a tanker is to avoid letting the ads get into your blindspot... It's not hard... But you have to at least try before you go naysaying it.
Godin Thekiller wrote:
Moving allows the ADS to shoot at you, and escaping is borderline impossible
Would like a bullshit button, needs pressing on this statement for starters. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
777
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Posted - 2015.02.14 00:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
That example is really bad for two reasons:
1: Where exactly is the place where HAV's are able to excel in? cities and outposts are obviously not it (and ADS'scan attack there). In the open is as you're describing it definitely not it, and there's really no other environment to be in other than the redline, which leaves rail fitted HAV's to be valid, but rocket and Blaster fitted HAV's not.
Right, in a city/outpost where a squishy ads has to fly low and risk hitting obstacles, where it can get shot down by any large turret (even blasters) without a reload required... Is some how not good enough for you.
Out in the open where the ads has nothing to hide behind and can be shot from anywhere within range... Is not good enough for you.
You clearly want a tank to be able to drop an ads from anywhere with no contest. In which case I disagree.
You have stated you don't like broken easy mechanics... Well then leave my ******* large missile turret well alone, as I don't want it being so easy that a nonce like you, who can't think of a reasonable way to deal with something that everyone has already explained to him, is able to use it.
You are bad at tanking and would be best off doing something else... My proof being you describe your own failure repeatedly while everyone else who can use a tank properly has succeeded.
Good ******* day. |
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