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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 894	Posted - 2014.09.09 19:49:00 - [211] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: These are the numbers on AFterburners and Injectors, in seconds Cooldownprop Cooldown MIL 1045 STD 1045 ADV 1040 PRO 1035 The prices we are looking at for the ADS is 200k ISK, and also a reduction in the cost of small turrets, TBD That is wayyy to long. It should be Militia 30 Basic 25 ADV 20 PROTO 15 Also, price of ADS should be 150k for the hull. 200k isk is still more than a match worth of playing. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 894	Posted - 2014.09.09 19:52:00 - [212] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: When vehicles can be soloed my butt! 47k isk skill less swarm launcher should require a lot of effort to take down a 500k isk asset worth almost 5x the sp. Killing a 25 million SP tank or ADS driver requires a 25 milion SP AV gunner to do with any measure of consistency. One thing I will give playing my tank alt after a year hiatus is GODDAMN WHY IS THERE NO WAY TO FIT THOSE BAD BOYS? The only PG/CPU skill I dont have is large turret optimization. Cant fit an advanced module fit on a madrugar... have trouble fitting BASIC. Tell me your seekrits. No wonder most of them are so damn easy to kill. my BPO sentinel has no problem fitting an ishukone AFG. I have no problem dropping ADS with an ADV AFG. My STD scout can easily fit a swarm launcher as well as my STD assault. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1114	Posted - 2014.09.09 20:19:00 - [213] - Quote BL00DFART wrote: Repe Susi wrote: BL00DFART wrote: Swarms? Oh you mean the only weapon in the game that takes zero skill to land hits with? The one that all the scrubs skill into because they cant learn the art of the forge gun? Press R1, get a cookie, rinse, repeat? I hate ADSs as much as the next guy, but swarms are the answer here? loldust Swarms are only AV option against dropships for light and medium frames as it is. And as it is, they are lacking against every vehicle except LAVs. Well, fitted Methanas and Sagas can escape swarms easily enough too. Press R1, get lit up by infantry and that's it. Wait, you mean us medium frames cant counter everything else other players can throw at us? We need blues with diverse suits/roles to do that? Well, I for one demand a respec right meow! Some people enjoy chess, others checkers. I'm guessing your the latter I wouldn't mind that except you want unlimited queens (dropships) while forcing swarms to remain pawns. Because, that's why.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1719	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:53:00 - [214] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: BL00DFART wrote: Repe Susi wrote: BL00DFART wrote: Swarms? Oh you mean the only weapon in the game that takes zero skill to land hits with? The one that all the scrubs skill into because they cant learn the art of the forge gun? Press R1, get a cookie, rinse, repeat? I hate ADSs as much as the next guy, but swarms are the answer here? loldust Swarms are only AV option against dropships for light and medium frames as it is. And as it is, they are lacking against every vehicle except LAVs. Well, fitted Methanas and Sagas can escape swarms easily enough too. Press R1, get lit up by infantry and that's it. Wait, you mean us medium frames cant counter everything else other players can throw at us? We need blues with diverse suits/roles to do that? Well, I for one demand a respec right meow! Some people enjoy chess, others checkers. I'm guessing your the latter I wouldn't mind that except you want unlimited queens (dropships) while forcing swarms to remain pawns. swarms are more of rooks, and dropships are bishops. Shoot Scout with yes.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1119	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:41:00 - [215] - Quote Maybe, but I have often seen a single ADS, or tank, completely change the tide of battle. In fact, it is a regular occurrence with or without AV on the field. I have not yet seen a swarm launcher change the tide of balance except by preventing the ADS or tank from ruling the field. In other words, vehicles can dominate a map and kill AV users, AV users can only kill vehicles. This is not equal but different power, this is one (vehicles) having much greater power but able to be killed by another lesser power. I think of the game more like Stratego, with vehicles being the Marshall and swarms being the Spy. Because, that's why.
Andris Kronis Legio DXIV 78	Posted - 2014.09.10 07:11:00 - [216] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: These are the numbers on AFterburners and Injectors, in seconds Cooldownprop Cooldown MIL 1045 STD 1045 ADV 1040 PRO 1035 The prices we are looking at for the ADS is 200k ISK, and also a reduction in the cost of small turrets, TBD I don't ADS often and usually only for transport (reference for following request) Please make the ADS even cheaper than you are suggesting, 1/3 of the current Charlie price. At least while you run in the new changes in Hotfix Delta. Reasoning: you will get lots of people flying ADS who otherwise wouldn't which will give you more stats ... heck I'll even give it a go for a few million ISK worth. and it will offset the losses expected by dedicated ADS pilots (not me) Then if the price is a little too low you can raise it up in Hotfix Echo. = Happier ADS pilots = Happier swarm users ;) "Corporation slogan coming to a sig near you"
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1721	Posted - 2014.09.11 02:45:00 - [217] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't even Swarm. I kill ADS with the forge gun. Right tool for the right job. I use swarms when I want to celebrate Impotence Day with fireworks. And I never said I wanted them to be EASY mode. I want them to be able to threaten ADS with death. You seem to be mightily offended by the very concept of a filthy infantry pud damaging your Precious ISK sink. If an AV weapon cannot kill a vehicle then it is imbalanced. If an AV weapon cannot fail to kill a vehicle it is imbalanced. You cannot kill an ADS with swarms without a half squad alpha strike. All to kill a solitary person. Tanks are soloable, what makes you special? I want the ADS price reduction because i want more targets to make fall from the sky like 20 ton hailstones. Then you should be okay with increasing fitting cost for AV so high, that fitting a sidearm is impossible. An AV suit should be unable to fight back against my infantry suit. People don't seem to understand that swarms can kill an ADS. But you want the pilot to sit there and let you do it. That's ridiculous. If I had flares, or some sort of countermeasure, or hell, even higher pg/CPU so I could fit more tank, I'd give you a good point on your argument. But if you want swarms to be a garaunteed kill on all vehicles, then you should be unable to fit a sidearm or tank your suit, so infantry has a garaunteed kill on your AV suit. As awful as that would be, that is balanced on a rock a paper a scissors mode of game balance. AV ALWAYS wis against vehicles, and infantry ALWAYS wins against AV. Shoot Scout with yes.
Atiim 12044	Posted - 2014.09.11 02:47:00 - [218] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: swarms are more of rooks, and dropships are bishops. Dropships can move anywhere on the map in a matter of seconds, and can kill every unit in the game. They're Queens. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Derrith Erador 2595	Posted - 2014.09.11 02:51:00 - [219] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: swarms are more of rooks, and dropships are bishops. Dropships can move anywhere on the map in a matter of seconds, and can kill every unit in the game. They're Queens. Guess I should start wearing dresses then. Wait... I already do. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Derrith Erador 2595	Posted - 2014.09.11 02:57:00 - [220] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: These are the numbers on AFterburners and Injectors, in seconds Cooldownprop Cooldown MIL 1045 STD 1045 ADV 1040 PRO 1035 The prices we are looking at for the ADS is 200k ISK, and also a reduction in the cost of small turrets, TBD Rattati, these numbers are ridiculous, I'm telling you as a fairly experienced pilot. I'm not a master pilot by any meaning of the word, but if these numbers are pushed through, you'll probably kill the piloting role. If you could read this, and give me your thoughts. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.

medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 976	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:01:00 - [221] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vanilla dropships are something that needs another look. They are squishier than ADS, slower and less maneuverable to the point where I get the impression most pilots consider them expendable lunatic delivery engines. Making them more survivable feels dirty but mostly you can two-shot them. I dont get the impression most pilots consider them worth fitting fo more than it takes to get to a tower to deliver links and snipers. Unfortunately buff them too much and they become more resilient than HAVs. Which is dumb. ADS are in fact squishier that normal dropships which have more fitting slots and base EHP. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1122	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:13:00 - [222] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't even Swarm. I kill ADS with the forge gun. Right tool for the right job. I use swarms when I want to celebrate Impotence Day with fireworks. And I never said I wanted them to be EASY mode. I want them to be able to threaten ADS with death. You seem to be mightily offended by the very concept of a filthy infantry pud damaging your Precious ISK sink. If an AV weapon cannot kill a vehicle then it is imbalanced. If an AV weapon cannot fail to kill a vehicle it is imbalanced. You cannot kill an ADS with swarms without a half squad alpha strike. All to kill a solitary person. Tanks are soloable, what makes you special? I want the ADS price reduction because i want more targets to make fall from the sky like 20 ton hailstones. Then you should be okay with increasing fitting cost for AV so high, that fitting a sidearm is impossible. An AV suit should be unable to fight back against my infantry suit. People don't seem to understand that swarms can kill an ADS. But you want the pilot to sit there and let you do it. That's ridiculous. If I had flares, or some sort of countermeasure, or hell, even higher pg/CPU so I could fit more tank, I'd give you a good point on your argument. But if you want swarms to be a garaunteed kill on all vehicles, then you should be unable to fit a sidearm or tank your suit, so infantry has a garaunteed kill on your AV suit. As awful as that would be, that is balanced on a rock a paper a scissors mode of game balance. AV ALWAYS wis against vehicles, and infantry ALWAYS wins against AV. No one has asked to always be able to kill an ADS, what we have asked is that we be able to kill an ADS, right now we can't win by doing everything right, they have to do something wrong, the outcome is always in their hands. The proposed changes seem good to me. When I fight a tank now I feel the better player, or team, will win the fight, not just the fit. When I fight a Python, I know the fit can beat me (although there are very good pilots we should both know they beat me and not their fit) and when I fight a standard dropship I know my fit beat them, eben if they are better thab me . The proposed changes seem to address the issues fairly. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1122	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:18:00 - [223] - Quote I like Derrith's ideas as well. Piloting needs to be viable and fun. I would drop the price more. Because, that's why.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2008	Posted - 2014.09.11 05:07:00 - [224] - Quote Sounds good according to the idea of how the DS would operate. One thing though, increase the scan ability of the ADS to be able to quickly acquire near targets. Seems plausible for a fast deploy/attack vehicle. Gives them a chance to shoot the swarm launcher vs. being easily shot down. Sounds like the ADS will be more of an offensive heavy vehicle vs. defensive so they should at least be able to quickly acquire infantry targets up close. Also, if you are going to make the regular DS survive better defensively so it can hover and hang around an objective better then get rid of the ability to ram the shields off a Cal DS. I say this as someone who supports Gal DS ramming. Sure, they can still knock another DS around. Would be fun GÇô DS wrestling. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 137	Posted - 2014.09.11 05:26:00 - [225] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: These are the numbers on AFterburners and Injectors, in seconds Cooldownprop Cooldown MIL 1045 STD 1045 ADV 1040 PRO 1035 The prices we are looking at for the ADS is 200k ISK, and also a reduction in the cost of small turrets, TBD Im fine with this now can you do something about the overpowered installations?
taxi bastard Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 261	Posted - 2014.09.11 10:54:00 - [226] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Sounds interesting. Will swarm volleys stop chasing if the dropship is outside their turn radius or do they continue chasing with wider arcs? Edit: Part of the problem with swarm missile tracking is that the missile will follow the dropship's path instead of flying directly at the dropship; making cover pointless as the missiles will follow the dropship's path around cover. its a problem both ways as the missiles do not take the shortest possible route and often run out of gas
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 4078	Posted - 2014.09.11 12:03:00 - [227] - Quote When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6926	Posted - 2014.09.11 15:43:00 - [228] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 46	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:02:00 - [229] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? I'm guessing he's talking about the fact that a commando swarmer will easily be able to fire the 3 to 4 swarms needed to kill us before we are out of range, especially given you haven't mentioned any fix with the fact that 90% of swarms are invisible to us and make no sound when fired, and that swarms currently go straight through buildings and rocks (and you are expecting us to hide behind these to be safe from swarms. It would help the fact that we need to reach max ceiling if you considered implementing my idea of after burner increasing overall maneuverability as well speed (go up faster, go down faster and turn faster) and fix the invisible swarms and swarms going through buildings etc. Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4842	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:33:00 - [230] - Quote a brackers wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? I'm guessing he's talking about the fact that a commando swarmer will .... Didn't he say "cloaked scout" ... ? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

taxi bastard Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 262	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:27:00 - [231] - Quote being that the ADS is such a force multiplier and is having a big price reduction i hope that the fix makes them easier to kill. solo i don't think i have killed a ADS piliot who did not make a glaring mistake. when i get killed by a sniper 400 meters away the result is out of my hands, i see no reason why it should not be the same with the ADS
Atiim 12053	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:31:00 - [232] - Quote a brackers wrote: I'm guessing he's talking about the fact that a commando swarmer will easily be able to fire the 3 to 4 swarms needed to kill us before we are out of range, especially given you haven't mentioned any fix with the fact that 90% of swarms are invisible to us and make no sound when fired, and that swarms currently go straight through buildings and rocks (and you are expecting us to hide behind these to be safe from swarms. Except the Commando won't. The time would take to fire 3-4 rounds is 6s with max skills. In that time, an Assault Dropship can evade you're lock range in 1.5s (Python w/Afterburner) and 2.3s (Incubus w/Afterburner). You'd only be able to get lock onto the Python once, and the Incubus twice before he escapes your lock range, meaning you'd only be hit by 1-2 volleys (which is tank-able by any DS). It should also be noted, that these values are skewed in favor of the ADS Pilot, as these current numbers assume that the Pilot is 0m away from the Swarmer, and that the travel time is instantaneous (it'll be faster, but not instantaneous in Delta). Assuming you're about 35-65m (like most ADS vs SL engagements), you'll have even more time to evade. a brackers wrote: It would help the fact that we need to reach max ceiling if you considered implementing my idea of after burner increasing overall maneuverability as well speed (go up faster, go down faster and turn faster) and fix the invisible swarms and swarms going through buildings etc. I can obviously see why Swarm Launcher rendering needs to be addressed, but why do Afterburners need an increase to overall maneuverability? Not only can they already turn corners with ease, but that could easily skew ADS vs FG balance in favor of the ADS, more-so than it already is. Does anyone have proof of Swarm Launchers going through buildings? If such a glitch exists, then of course it would need to be fixed, but I honestly could not find any through field testing. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 74	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:35:00 - [233] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? Numbers aren't the answer to everything. Not this time. I will repeat what I have already said. Changing the prices of ADS is stupid if you don't put the tanks in league with those of ADS. Currently proto ADS cost the same as proto tanks. If you change the price of ADS without changing the prices of tanks, they would become more obsolete than they already are (go see your numbers, there are less and less tanks in PC, they are more and more replaced by AV or dropship). The reason is that a dropship is as costly AND give a tactical advantage in anti-infantry or in AV. The only good points I see in that is more dogfights for my rail incubus and more allies decoy to take AV in my stead (pubs/FW/PC). That was for the ISK part. Now, what you are trying to set up with swarm/ads numbers is very interesting and very dangerous at the same time. What you SHOULD do (but you don't do it) is to take as a basis the ADS versus Swarm WITHOUT the afterburner. You should balance this mechanic first. To me, the afterburner shouldn't be more vital for a dropship than the cloak for a scout. However, it is for the moment and will become even more after your release... You should change the afterburner mechanics, make it like the shield booster (a single impulse with a long reload). Something that can save your life with a great boost on your propulsion (the dropship can go from stable to half speed in a single second). However, this module wouldn't be as OP as it is for the moment (great boost on a long time). This would allow more experienced pilots to fit others modules while giving a chance to the new and courageous pilots to learn without beaing automatically destroyed. If you do this, then the swarm should have a speed EQUAL to the maximal ADS speed. If a dropship go from stable to max speed, it would be badly damaged, probably destroyed from the time it go from 0km/h to full. However a pilot who is still in movement (a pilot that can't do an effective suppressing fire on the ground) would take hits but can manage to survive. Plus, you didn't even evocate the problem of speed of Incubus. With their useless hardeners, they must fit plates. And when you fit plates (even with the LVL 5 in the skill that reduce weight), you are still too slow and you eventually take more hits than a python. And I don't see anywhere any change about the weight disparity beetween 60mm and 120mm plates. If you keep your stats and ideas, we will end-up like The dark cloud said in flying coffins. But in the end, we will loose much more money than we currently loose even with the (stupid) idea of cost reduction. Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 768	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:41:00 - [234] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? It doesn't. In short, it will take 4 volleys from the most powerful Swarm (Wiyrkomi, MinCom 5, Prof 5 and 2x PRO Damage Mods) in the game to kill the toughest ADS. Python Fit: STD Afterburner; ADV Heavy Extender; STD Heavy Extender; PRO PG Extension; ADV AT-1 Missile. 3244 shields/960 armour. CBR-7 (No Proficiency): Kills on the 5th volley (10.45 seconds plus travel time) Wiyrkomi (Proficiency 5, Rapid Reload 5): Kills on the 5th volley (9.275 seconds plus travel time) Wiyrkomi (Proficiency 5, RR 5, MinCom 5, 2x PRO Damage Mod): Kills on the 4th volley (8.185 seconds plus travel time) I did have the maths all here, but I lost the post and can't be bothered again, but I can provide the numbers if necessary (though I'm sure people like Atiim have already crunched them sufficiently.) Honestly, I don't know how ok I am with this, looking at it from both sides: on the one hand, the ADS does have ample opportunity to disengage; on the other hand, reducing the TTK to being 4 volleys from most/3 from the top makes the ADS very iffy on viability. Although it is very much worth noting that the above Python example is [I]the toughest possible fit[/]. I think right now, the lack of +10/-10 or other shield-bonused AV weapons is an enormous hole in the balancing mechanism. If we buff the Swarms further, Incubi will be driven out of usefulness, since they will take even more of a hit than Pythons yet at the same time Pythons are primarily resistant to Swarms because of the damage profile. Changes to Swarm kill efficacy versus Pythons is not the way to balance ADSs: the solution is in additional AV weaponry balancing the various profiles against one another. In other words, I think the buffs to Swarms right now (missile speed) is pretty reasonable and even the Afterburner change will be reasonable given time to adjust. I think any increases to Swarm damage would have a massive impact that would negatively impact V/AV balance overall and that only the introduction of anti-shield AV weaponry can solve any imbalances present in the system. Alt of Halla Murr.
Derrith Erador 2598	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:48:00 - [235] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? It's not the swarms I see as the issue, I've said before, a lot... and I will say it again, your current numbers for recharge are too high, and giving us more time on the AB active is negligible. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 898	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:32:00 - [236] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? It's not the swarms I see as the issue, I've said before, a lot... and I will say it again, your current numbers for recharge are too high, and giving us more time on the AB active is negligible. I think that maybe when we go in for the attack we can have AB already fired. So as in like, I go to kill a infantry, and a swarmer suddenly fires, then I can just press L1 and dash for it as fast as possible. But truly, this is a stupid idea. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2014.09.11 20:14:00 - [237] - Quote I do not fly my Python with an afterburner, I really hope I will not be forced to do so from now on to survive ! Please do not set this up in a way that forces dropships to fit an afterburner. I know little about flying the Incubus, but I assume it's an even more dire issue there. I will state again, that I disagree with lowering the price of the assault dropship. Bringing one into a fight is a decision made based on the fight. We all need to be ground infantry first, pilots second. Not every single fight needs a dropship, the argument of going 4 matches without losing a ship to break even is invalid, you should be able to call in a dropship to perform a task and retreat or recall when said task is done. I agree with the current price of assault dropships, I am happy to pay them.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2725	Posted - 2014.09.11 20:29:00 - [238] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Python Fit: STD Afterburner; ADV Heavy Extender; STD Heavy Extender; PRO PG Extension; ADV AT-1 Missile. 3244 shields/960 armour. CBR-7 (No Proficiency): Kills on the 5th volley (10.45 seconds plus travel time) Wiyrkomi (Proficiency 5, Rapid Reload 5): Kills on the 5th volley (9.275 seconds plus travel time) Wiyrkomi (Proficiency 5, RR 5, MinCom 5, 2x PRO Damage Mod): Kills on the 4th volley (8.185 seconds plus travel time) Currrent AV capacity, pre-Delta, practical application: Because Dropships have unlisted, innate resists to AV weapons. DAU/2 Assault Forge Gun Proficiency 4, 2 damage mods Kills on the third shot. 6.75 Seconds Ishukone Assault Forge Gun Proficiency 4, 2 Damage Mods Kills on the third shot. 6.75 Seconds Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun Proficiency 4, 2 Damage Mods Kills on the second shot. 9 seconds there's about a 50/50 chance the pilot will be out of range or juking hard enough to evade before the third shot lands. Bitching about 8 seconds for swarms to kill seems childish when that doesn't match up to a forge gun's hammer capacity. Run your numbers against a tanked incubus now. Oddly enough... Mine don't change. This is brought to you by: The guy who kills vehicles for a living.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 769	Posted - 2014.09.11 20:31:00 - [239] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I will state again, that I disagree with lowering the price of the assault dropship. Bringing one into a fight is a decision made based on the fight. We all need to be ground infantry first, pilots second. Not every single fight needs a dropship, the argument of going 4 matches without losing a ship to break even is invalid, you should be able to call in a dropship to perform a task and retreat or recall when said task is done. I agree with the current price of assault dropships, I am happy to pay them. Even using your example of Call In - Fight - Recall: what happens when two or more battles in a row require/would be enormously improved by the presence of an ADS? Losing a single one means going ISK negative for several battles, even running on the ground, and if you're looking at calling in more to support your team even with the intention of recalling, what happens when you lose multiple? You're trying to help your team, but by doing so you personally are potentially losing millions of ISK. All of the risk is on you, with next to no reward. Alt of Halla Murr.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2725	Posted - 2014.09.11 20:38:00 - [240] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I will state again, that I disagree with lowering the price of the assault dropship. Bringing one into a fight is a decision made based on the fight. We all need to be ground infantry first, pilots second. Not every single fight needs a dropship, the argument of going 4 matches without losing a ship to break even is invalid, you should be able to call in a dropship to perform a task and retreat or recall when said task is done. I agree with the current price of assault dropships, I am happy to pay them. Even using your example of Call In - Fight - Recall: what happens when two or more battles in a row require/would be enormously improved by the presence of an ADS? Losing a single one means going ISK negative for several battles, even running on the ground, and if you're looking at calling in more to support your team even with the intention of recalling, what happens when you lose multiple? You're trying to help your team, but by doing so you personally are potentially losing millions of ISK. All of the risk is on you, with next to no reward. Also, if you do NOT call in a ADS, how are you helping me achieve my goal of pasting the expensive things and causing them to crash on blue and red dots indiscriminately? I mean, think of myself, and people like me. If ADS become cheaper, then I will have MORE JUICY TARGETS TO SHOOT AT! Come to think of it, let's drop the price on HAVs again.



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