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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1699
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Posted - 2014.09.05 19:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
As long as the nerf to ab cooldown (which, speaking as a pilot, I don't have an issue with) is not insane, like 80 seconds, then this will be good improvements. I'll say between 15-25 second cooldown.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1719
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Posted - 2014.09.09 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:BL00DFART wrote:Repe Susi wrote:BL00DFART wrote:Swarms?
Oh you mean the only weapon in the game that takes zero skill to land hits with?
The one that all the scrubs skill into because they cant learn the art of the forge gun?
Press R1, get a cookie, rinse, repeat?
I hate ADSs as much as the next guy, but swarms are the answer here?
loldust
Swarms are only AV option against dropships for light and medium frames as it is. And as it is, they are lacking against every vehicle except LAVs. Well, fitted Methanas and Sagas can escape swarms easily enough too. Press R1, get lit up by infantry and that's it. Wait, you mean us medium frames cant counter everything else other players can throw at us? We need blues with diverse suits/roles to do that? Well, I for one demand a respec right meow! Some people enjoy chess, others checkers. I'm guessing your the latter I wouldn't mind that except you want unlimited queens (dropships) while forcing swarms to remain pawns.
swarms are more of rooks, and dropships are bishops.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1721
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Posted - 2014.09.11 02:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I don't even Swarm.
I kill ADS with the forge gun.
Right tool for the right job.
I use swarms when I want to celebrate Impotence Day with fireworks.
And I never said I wanted them to be EASY mode.
I want them to be able to threaten ADS with death.
You seem to be mightily offended by the very concept of a filthy infantry pud damaging your Precious ISK sink. If an AV weapon cannot kill a vehicle then it is imbalanced. If an AV weapon cannot fail to kill a vehicle it is imbalanced.
You cannot kill an ADS with swarms without a half squad alpha strike. All to kill a solitary person. Tanks are soloable, what makes you special?
I want the ADS price reduction because i want more targets to make fall from the sky like 20 ton hailstones.
Then you should be okay with increasing fitting cost for AV so high, that fitting a sidearm is impossible. An AV suit should be unable to fight back against my infantry suit.
People don't seem to understand that swarms can kill an ADS. But you want the pilot to sit there and let you do it. That's ridiculous. If I had flares, or some sort of countermeasure, or hell, even higher pg/CPU so I could fit more tank, I'd give you a good point on your argument. But if you want swarms to be a garaunteed kill on all vehicles, then you should be unable to fit a sidearm or tank your suit, so infantry has a garaunteed kill on your AV suit. As awful as that would be, that is balanced on a rock a paper a scissors mode of game balance. AV ALWAYS wis against vehicles, and infantry ALWAYS wins against AV.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1723
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Posted - 2014.09.11 21:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The dark cloud wrote:When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers?
Because swarms do not render reliably for us. A lot of the time we don't even know the threat is there until we are hit. Swarms have the first hit advantage. If we could see them, or have some way to know we are being locked, or flares and other countermeasures, things would be different.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1726
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Posted - 2014.09.12 01:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:And could someone make a video of these "Invisible Swarms"?
I'd like to verify that these invisible swarms are actually invisible, and not just Pilots being hit from the back of the DS (where the camera angle woudn't allow them to see anyways).
Here you go.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1728
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 05:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Atiim wrote:And could someone make a video of these "Invisible Swarms"?
I'd like to verify that these invisible swarms are actually invisible, and not just Pilots being hit from the back of the DS (where the camera angle woudn't allow them to see anyways). Here you go. Throughout that vid, I did not see a volley of invisible swarms in the air. The first time, on Line Harvest, his nose was swinging back toward them as they landed - and they exploded visibly. The second volley, already in the air, was also clearly visible. Every other instance of swarms shown in that video was either visible or from behind/below where it would not have been seen. I DID see where a forge gunner did damage but there was no flash of forge shot impact nor knock away effect on the dropship as it was hovering over that rail tank. But no, there were no invisible swarms flying and magically doing hitting.
You wouldn't see invisible swarms because they are invisible. The swarms are launched as he swoops by the building, connecting right after he pauses. The second swarm renders, but theswarmer himself does not.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1728
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 19:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The dark cloud wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The dark cloud wrote:When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers? Allright lets start this then. Lets assume we got a scout with a proto swarm launcher, 2DMG mods and proficency 5 into it. Base damage from swarms will be then at 1572HP. Times 3 is 4716HP damage which you cannot avoid oh and thats omni damage without damage boost vs armor or damage penalty vs shields (+/- 20%). So lets see how much damage it would cause vs a incubus (armor tank) and a python (shield tank). Armor damage: 5659 HP damage with 3 volleys shield damage: 3772 HP damage with 3 volleys So lets put this in perspective with how much HP you can squeeze out of both dropships: Incubus fitPythonThe Incubus got a max HP of about 5197ehp The python has a max HP of 3955ehp The incubus will die allready due to the high damage output alone and the little bit of shields wont save it. You might would think that going for the python would be a better idea but as soon the shields are breaking the damage gets a boost vs armor and its going to crash with its nose into the ground. Oh and please ignore the warning that PG is not sufficent on the right. The site is bugged so that PG upgrades dont add to the PG of the fit. So whats going to happend is that a ADS wont be capable to avoid beeing blowed up without a chance to escape the swarms. Most of the time pilots hit the AB when they have beeing hit with the 1st volley but with the changes that will be too late cause 2 more are incoming and are granted to hit. Why are they guaranteed to get hit by 3 swarms? Where is the math to prove that, i.e. difference before and after Delta? The AB keeps the same boost and should effectively evade as he does now, granted, the ADS cannot afford the same hovering as it can now, and can not return fully healed with restored AB's until after a longer time than currently.
Some math.
Currently, swarms go 50m/s. ADS top speed (both Python and Incubus) is 200km/h according to the game stats info when I hit triangle in the market. So let's change that number into m/s so we can effectively compare.
Easiest part is changing kilometers to meters. 200 x 1000 meters to the kilometer nets us 200,000 meters per hour. Now, there are 3600 seconds in an hour (60 minutes in an hour times 60 seconds in a minute) so by dividing 200,000 by 3600 we get 55.556 m/s (rounded to the nearest thousandths place) top speed for dropships. Afterburners do not increase top speed; they simply increase acceleration greatly, meaning we can hit this top speed much easier. Video of how afterburner does not increase top speed. Also to Atiim, here is undeniable proof of the invisible swarms. Changing swarms to 60m/s will mean dropships can never outrun them; there top speed, afterburner or not, is 55.556 m/s.
We need that speed to escape the killing blow. We can point out how the most tanked Python or Incubus can take this many hits, but should those be the only viable fits? And notice how none of them have gunners, which means less teamwork and more people being solo, which is part of the complaints as well. Also notice how they cannot even make there single turret proto, meaning that they are gimped in PC where everyone is running proto modules, and especially so against anything that isn't a scout. Also note how they assume one swarmer. One swarmer against the maximum possible tanked ADS can almost down it solo as is. Now, anything not the fits listed will go down to that 3rd swarm.
The nerf to afterburner cooldown is justified. I can return to the fight far more quickly than I should be able to. But as the video shows, swarms pop in and out of rendering, As to the swarm users themselves. Hiding behind structures is mentioned as a means to avoid the new swarms, but not all maps have structures we can reach in time before that third volley hits. The afterburner is our only means of surviving. Invisible swarms, invisible swarmers and forgers, lack of things to hide behind, our only way to save our dropships is to outrange the AV and come back at a better angle or have infantry push them off for us. We need that speed. I ask you to change the afterburner cooldown, as that is completely justified. But I also ask you wait on the swarm speed changes until you see how the afterburner nerf pans out. Small, incremental changes like you said.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1730
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Posted - 2014.09.13 01:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
One big point I want addressed is the lack of awareness of AV players. A huge part of the issue is AV always getting the drop on us, whether because swarms did not render, or because the players did not render, or because we couldn't tell whether they were players or part of the terrain. If we had something indicating we were being locked, like a beep and a visual warning, I'd feel a lot better about the proposed changes.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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