Change #1 would put things into a position where since the AB can still allow ADSs to out-run Swarms, any Pilot who's caught by surprise will still be able to evade, despite his failure to be aware of the situation.

In short, that wouldn't solve anything.

200? I want to be able to at least break even If I loose one and win the match!

I'd like to echo the concerns others have posted about DS's flat sitting outside lock-on range and doing battlefield actions free of risk.

As I said above, there are scenarios in which a pilot is effecting the battle while outside infantry engagement range, and since they are in the sky there's no way to close this range.

So instead, I'll suggest repurposing all those Swarm Launcher variants no one ever uses.
("I can split my missiles between multiple targets? Why would I ever want this?")
Keep their low DPS, substantially increase their range, and we'll have our harrying option, and have found some use for dead items to boot. :)

Ah yes, the awesome power+low cost approach to balance. Also used for 1.7 tanks with great results

Isk is not a balancing factor. That is to say, 'my dropship/tank is expensive, therefore it should be powerful'.
However you can say, 'my dropship/tank is powerful, therefore it should be expensive'

ADS should not be as common as tanks, nor will these changes allow them to be.
You should expect no more than 1 dropship, per pilot to be lost per battle. Therefore the average price of a fully fitted dropship, should be about 220,000 ISK, this way you can afford to loose one but only if you win.

So ...
Every other unit in the game can be effectively solo'd. Except for this one. The most mobile one of all. This wascal requires focused fire from 3 or more. Let's decrease its price.

PS: I'm 100% in favor of ADS price decrease, and I'm 100% in favor of not being able to solo an ADS with one clip of proto Swarms. Two of guys like me should do the trick, provided we catch the wabbit off guard and time our strikes right. Three of me is one too many.

I don't know how many times swarms have denied an ADS an area. I don't really know what the problem with the swarm and ADS balance is. Right now swarms are the BEST thing against an ADS, due to the fire and forget nature of them.

so... you're saying that swarms shouldn't have a chance to kill your dropship and the gunners should be thankful for the +75s your generosity showers upon them?

all the warpoints for hammering on vehicles means is that gunners aren't going to max out at 600 WP for a match because they spent all their time chasing YOUR ass around the map along with your two tank buddies and finally scoring kills. I don't think most gunners want the farmed warpoints more than they want to see you explode.

After all, patiently watching you yo-yo back and forth to and from safety denies us the pretty flames and outraged screams.

I want them to be able to threaten ADS with death.

You seem to be mightily offended by the very concept of a filthy infantry pud damaging your Precious ISK sink. If an AV weapon cannot kill a vehicle then it is imbalanced. If an AV weapon cannot fail to kill a vehicle it is imbalanced.

You cannot kill an ADS with swarms without a half squad alpha strike. All to kill a solitary person. Tanks are soloable, what makes you special?

I want the ADS price reduction because i want more targets to make fall from the sky like 20 ton hailstones.

You lose 500k isk for losing an ADS. If you run AV proto is the only way to threaten most vehicles. When you run dedicated AV and encounter hostile infantry. Losing three to four proto AV suits is not uncommon trying tokill a good ADS or HAV driver so the cost achieves parity.

All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers?

I will state again, that I disagree with lowering the price of the assault dropship. Bringing one into a fight is a decision made based on the fight. We all need to be ground infantry first, pilots second. Not every single fight needs a dropship, the argument of going 4 matches without losing a ship to break even is invalid, you should be able to call in a dropship to perform a task and retreat or recall when said task is done. I agree with the current price of assault dropships, I am happy to pay them.

Why are they guaranteed to get hit by 3 swarms? Where is the math to prove that, i.e. difference before and after Delta? The AB keeps the same boost and should effectively evade as he does now, granted, the ADS cannot afford the same hovering as it can now, and can not return fully healed with restored AB's until after a longer time than currently.

speed to 60, vs ads of 50. AB bpost is 50%, meaning ads is 75 while boosting. Dally, yes get hit, get the hell out or kill the swarmer, but getting insta hit by 3 is avoidable.

I m seeing a lot of anecdotal screaming that buffing swarms is unfair and very little hard evidence as to why vehicles outrunning missiles is fair.

The only way swarms kill ADS currently is the dropship pilot is an utter idiot or five of them focus fire for instablap. This is not weapon balance.

A 25 million SP AV fit should have a 50/50 ish chance of killing a 25 million SP vehicle at some point during a match. The actual skill of the gunner vs. The skill of the pilot should be what skews the curve, not the cost of what fit. Forge guns can solo dropships, its just hard.

Swarms should be able to solo dropships. It should just be hard. It will be given that swarms are slower alpha and more easily dodged. 8 seconds-ish (swarm) vs. 6.75 (assault forge) seems pretty damn reasonable.

Not being able to accelerate out of range faster than missiles can fly will encourage better maneuvering rather than saving the survival instinct for when the sentinel puts his attention on you.

Theres maneuvers to dodge forges but dodging swarms is tricky and it usually doesnt work if youre caught by suprise. You go full speed then abruptly turn your nose towards the swarm rockets while flying backwards and they usually explode beforehand wo touching you. With the new swarm speed buff i doubt itll be possible, its already hard enough as is to pull it off.

Not before you get out of swarm max range.

The afterburner nerf has "nothing" to do with the swarm speed buff. They target two completely different things. One is purely lowering engagement (the AB) so they do not affect K/D at all. The other is making it possible to actually kill ADS's.

Second, noone has demonstrated that the ADS will get hit by 3 swarms, mathematically. Just anecdotal theories.

I am working on a few charts to demonstrate why 1) the current situation is completely unacceptable, and 2) the proposal is the minimum acceptable change.

I also see that the most common complaint is that because of speed, there is no escape. Everyone knows that the best way to avoid the third swarm is to put terrain and buildings between you and the Swarm Launcher to avoid the lock, not to actually twist and turn to "fool" the missiles themselves, Top Gun style. Second of all, the lock on time and acceleration, coupled with AB is a nonlinear problem. It is not enough to say 60 is bigger than 55, thus 3 swarms hit.

Manoeuver out of sight so the third lock doesn't happen.

I see dropships dip behind structures all the time to break line of sight. I must be playing another game.

If swarms do not have greater speed, then they cannot catch a dropship, because acceleration does not increase top speed. They just hit their max speed and stay there.