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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
37
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Posted - 2014.09.05 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ads and ds pilot here.
I don't really mind most of these changes as the swarm is more threatening to tanks than dropships, and forges and rails are worse for me, but as most forgers can quite easily kill an ads before they get killed, especially if they are close to cover, I would like to see a small buff to ads pg, cpu and ehp (no where near the 1000 to nds but around 200 -400) I would also hope for a reduction in collision damage as ramming mlt ships are a common enemy.
The main problem with why ads's are considered an instant win by any infantry is because of the price. The fact a adv fitted ads is ~410k and a proto is ~500k means the pilot needs to have no deaths for 2 - 3 matches. Currently a good pilot survives 1 - 1.2 matches per lost ship.
I therefore request a reduction in price such that an advanced ads fit costs around 200k. This means ads prices are 120k. I know this is a massive reduction, but we are much less survivable than tanks and tanks are still cheaper.
Final request is a slight change to afterburners. I agree you can increase the cooldown time, and the active time doesn't really need to be increased (I quite often turn off my enhanced afterburner before its fine because I'm going up too quick or I'm already at max ceiling) but I request a change to the way the afterburner works.
I want it to increase overall maneuverability so I can still go up more quickly with it on, but I can also go down more quickly and turn much more quickly to help me to duck into valleys and gaps in the terrain to avoid swarms/forges, so my only defence is not just going up to max ceiling.
Thanks for reading
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 13:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
iKILLu osborne wrote:fuel injector is this derp tanker's best friend please leave it be.
ads desrves a price reduction, but not a big one (7%?), cause you don't want people spammin it.
if no isk reduction for ads at least fix friendly rdv collision issue
to anyone with ears rdv's aren't really a problem except when they first spawn, and to help with that id recommend making their blip appear on radar and their sound a couple of seconds before they spawn when they are invisible.
Read my post about the price, it's a huge decrease and it still only just makes them profitable, and there will be no where near as many of them as there are tanks
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
37
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Posted - 2014.09.05 16:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Actually, I forgot to write the ISK reduction, we are thinking 250k ISK?
The problem is if a fully fitted ads fitted with advanced gear (adds~80k) costs any more than 250k it becomes unprofitable. 90% of ads pilots are in the air less than half the time at the moment, or they get funds from a rich friend
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
38
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Anmol Singh wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Actually, I forgot to write the ISK reduction, we are thinking 250k ISK? So you reduce the price about 70-80k isk and you cut our survive ability by half. I do not agree. I think proto small turrets need a price nerf and a CPU/PG nerf. Also think the ADS needs a PG buff. I have 200+ free CPU but always have to fit a complex Pg extender. Price should be about 150k isk.
+1
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
40
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote: Well, we don't want every pilot caught by surprise to just be dead, this will deter them more and reduce the ADS K/D since they are longer out of engagement.
Quote: Dude, enough with the K/D bull crap. The only reason we have good K/D is because we don't die a lot. The reason we don't die a lot is because we flee at the first sight of danger. 500k isk isn't worth one kill.
Quote: It's perfectly balanced then that you don't die a lot and manage to get massive amounts of kills.
Quote: The max kills I've ever gotten with a ADS is like 24 and that was vs fresh out the academy players vs 500k isk python. I've gone 44-3 with a militia heavy with a STD HMG std mods vs. Proto users. ADS in no way is OP.
Quote: Heavies are easy mode http://imgur.com/Ijc5Um7I've seen players like PARTHOK and Derrtih get close to 20 kills and under 2 deaths in PC in Pub's if the other team pushes enough a good ADS pilot could get 30+ kills, I've seen Snugglez go 36-0 and I think 41-0.
You try and say one good pilot has once got 36 kills meaning that all ads pilots can easily do it. Average kills per lost ship is about 10 against a competent team who knows how to change suits to av. To be profitable it currently takes not losing a ship for the entirety of three matches. This means we run at any forge or rail shots or swarm shots. The reason we kill u is we then know where you are so we use the terrain to sneak up on u and then kill u
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 11:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:These are the numbers on AFterburners and Injectors, in seconds
Cooldownprop Cooldown
MIL 1045
STD 1045
ADV 1040
PRO 1035
The prices we are looking at for the ADS is 200k ISK, and also a reduction in the cost of small turrets, TBD
As most of the av said before five pages of arguments started, 200k for a reasonably fitted ads should be fair. Yes to start with there will be a few more ships in the air but that will go back to normal. Also as one av person stated on page 9, they mainly like watching us crash and explode so they should like more ships. Even with the small turret price reduction (good idea, encourages people to have multiple gunners, increasing teamwork) the ads price should be around 140 - 150k so is fittable for around 200k.
Can I also again request a change to the way afterburners work. I request the increase maneuverability as well as just speed. Ie, we can go up faster, DOWN faster and turn faster. This will help as you are now expecting us to evade swarms by ducking behind buildings or into trenches and cuttings.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 12:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Anmol Singh wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I think you two are getting out of hand.
Vehicle balance is achieved when a vehicle CAN be soloed, with comparable ease to with which the vehicle can kill infantry.
This is the firsf and most important clause in V/AV balance, this MUST be adhered to.
Secondly a vehicle must be given an opportunity to escape. In the case of Dropship vs Swarms this is the 4.8 seconds between volley 3 and volley 4. IF you retreat successfully with this window you will survive.
Now Currently, Afterburners and infact even dropships without them are capable of completly out running that 4th fatal volley, long after the window of opportunity has passed. In some cases I've seen the 4th volley has been halfway there before the pilot pulls out, yet he still survives and it's this behaviour that is unbalanced. When vehicles can be soloed my butt! 47k isk skill less swarm launcher should require a lot of effort to take down a 500k isk asset worth almost 5x the sp. This was debunked well over 3 months ago. You are talking about a single weapon, in which case AVers have every right to bring up mlt vehicles with 0SP requirements and a cost of about 70K under the same discussion. A fully kitted out AV fit requires approximately: Commando: 27Mil SP + 210,000 ISK Logistics: 30Mil SP +236,000 ISK A fully kitted out HAV No Light Turrets: 22Mil SP + 470,000 ISK With Light Turrets: 28Mil SP + 643,000 ISK So even with a large pro turret and pro modules, your less than 2x the price of my 550 eHP Logistics Suit, in order to be nearly 3x my cost you then need to add 2 full PRO light turrets, now from the tankers I talk to, you don't bother with it you simply put miltia ones on their instead. But you won't here me complaining when you can loose 5-10 of those logistics a match and sometimes still not successfully kill you. Please try and leave out the biased information next time.
Firstly, you really shouldn't be using absolute full proto in pub matches, my swarmer costs 47k and does the job pretty nicely. My forger costs 30.5k and does the job very nicely. Secondly this forum is absolutely nothing to do with tanks. Against ads which costs up to 800k and up to 47 Mill sp (haven't checked that but it's what people are saying, I know 800k is right though) if you are a min commando we don't have a chance of getting near u and given we can't see the swarms, if we are near your max range you can have six sets of invisible seams in the air before the first one impacts. It only takes three to four to kill us.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 14:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:a brackers wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Anmol Singh wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I think you two are getting out of hand.
Vehicle balance is achieved when a vehicle CAN be soloed, with comparable ease to with which the vehicle can kill infantry.
This is the firsf and most important clause in V/AV balance, this MUST be adhered to.
Secondly a vehicle must be given an opportunity to escape. In the case of Dropship vs Swarms this is the 4.8 seconds between volley 3 and volley 4. IF you retreat successfully with this window you will survive.
Now Currently, Afterburners and infact even dropships without them are capable of completly out running that 4th fatal volley, long after the window of opportunity has passed. In some cases I've seen the 4th volley has been halfway there before the pilot pulls out, yet he still survives and it's this behaviour that is unbalanced. When vehicles can be soloed my butt! 47k isk skill less swarm launcher should require a lot of effort to take down a 500k isk asset worth almost 5x the sp. This was debunked well over 3 months ago. You are talking about a single weapon, in which case AVers have every right to bring up mlt vehicles with 0SP requirements and a cost of about 70K under the same discussion. A fully kitted out AV fit requires approximately: Commando: 27Mil SP + 210,000 ISK Logistics: 30Mil SP +236,000 ISK A fully kitted out HAV No Light Turrets: 22Mil SP + 470,000 ISK With Light Turrets: 28Mil SP + 643,000 ISK So even with a large pro turret and pro modules, your less than 2x the price of my 550 eHP Logistics Suit, in order to be nearly 3x my cost you then need to add 2 full PRO light turrets, now from the tankers I talk to, you don't bother with it you simply put miltia ones on their instead. But you won't here me complaining when you can loose 5-10 of those logistics a match and sometimes still not successfully kill you. Please try and leave out the biased information next time. Firstly, you really shouldn't be using absolute full proto in pub matches, my swarmer costs 47k and does the job pretty nicely. My forger costs 30.5k and does the job very nicely. Secondly this forum is absolutely nothing to do with tanks. Against ads which costs up to 800k and up to 47 Mill sp (haven't checked that but it's what people are saying, I know 800k is right though) if you are a min commando we don't have a chance of getting near u and given we can't see the swarms, if we are near your max range you can have six sets of invisible seams in the air before the first one impacts. It only takes three to four to kill us. And in pub matches you shouldn't really be roling round in more than 70k worth of HAV. I've no problem with the ADS reduction. My ADS fits are currently 420k so whoever is telling you 800k is running full PRO. As for SP your looking at 26.7 Mil, so once again whoever is telling you that is talking out their backside. With proposed reduction to 200,000 for your hull and turret price reduction, you should be able to make a profit, even if you loose 1 dropship, provided you pull your weight or win!
I make my python fairly cheap at 400k. That's 80k of modules (give or take). With the reduction in small turrets which won't be any more than 20 or 25% that's 73k of modules. I don't know about you but it's pretty tricky to get 273k per match given with this swarm change most matches you'll lose it. That's why I keep suggesting 120k - 140k especially given its still much less survivable than that 70k of tank you were talking about. (Also btw average tank in Pub's is about 120k as quite a few people run std tanks)
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
|
a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The dark cloud wrote:When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers?
I'm guessing he's talking about the fact that a commando swarmer will easily be able to fire the 3 to 4 swarms needed to kill us before we are out of range, especially given you haven't mentioned any fix with the fact that 90% of swarms are invisible to us and make no sound when fired, and that swarms currently go straight through buildings and rocks (and you are expecting us to hide behind these to be safe from swarms.
It would help the fact that we need to reach max ceiling if you considered implementing my idea of after burner increasing overall maneuverability as well speed (go up faster, go down faster and turn faster) and fix the invisible swarms and swarms going through buildings etc.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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