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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
59
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Posted - 2014.09.05 10:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
That's going to be interesting, but I'm a bit afraid of what minmatar commandos will be able to inflict to dropships / ADS.
Once again, you come from the fact that afterburners are the most equiped modules. But remember that the afterburner SHOULD NOT be a standardise module. I would gladly use that complex scanner of mine. However we are in the OBLIGATION to fit them in order to survive (and not to lost 500.000 isk). Which limit considerably the ADS fitting capability (I will once more talk about the lack of modules for vehicles. I post about that too many time already, but I guess it's the only way for you devs can understand where is lying your AV problem You set that on your own (with that damn 1.7), at the time you said something like "we reduce the number of modules to balance AV". Now, 9 month later AV aren't still in good shape AND dropships fitting have become as standardised as the roof camping in public.
To represent you the lack of modules, I will take something everyone hate : scouts
In their current state, scouts are able to obtain good HP, good speed, good firepower and good electronics capabilites, and that's OP. Why do I talk about scouts ? Because the great variety of modules make that they can have at least 5 different fitting each one with a different combat philosphy (scan specialist, kill, hack, deployment and mix of those speciality).
Now, what would you think of being a scout if in order not to loose a lot of ISK, you were in the OBLIGATION to fit the cloak permanently and only access to shotguns and nova knives as your weapons ? Even with their great amont of PG/CPU, fitting them would become difficult, and only a dozen of fitting option would become battle proven.
However, that's what ADS pilots are enduring... since 1.7, and I will even show you how we fit dropships :
choose the target : infantry (missiles)/vehicules (rail)
choose your HP/Repair ratio (the only thing we can more or less play with)
choose how to give a chance to your 500.000 isk asset to survive (or die trying) : Afterburner
Congratulations, your dropship is ready !
The price of a proto vehicle is NOT a problem. However, the time it takes to destroy it is totally wrong. And I'm not talking about collision with textures that appear from nowhere. We need more defensive modules such as specialised hardener or damage control units. I'm talking about them because I play a bit to Eve and there are a lot of ideas to take from there.
As an exemple, why don't you add a STRUCTURE to vehicules ? The structure would give more HP (300 for LAV, 600 for dropships, 1000 for tanks), while as a counterpart, you could only repair it on a supply depot. Specialised hardener could also be interesting, keep the generic hardener with a low bonus against everything, and add an anti-explosive hardener that can reduce the damages of 70%. However, it would work only against swarms and missiles. Of course, some of these changes would require client upgrades, but vehicles clearly need a new breath after 9 MONTH without a single addition (no pilot dropsuit, no modules, no return of old vehicles).
I know some of the old vehicles and modules are still in the client, otherwise, my Sagaris wouldn't be here, same thing for the overload module.
The AV disparity is also horrible (pub and FW), sometime you can slaughter infantry and have no AV answer, and sometime, you just want a dogfight and half the enemy team is already in AV. I see more and more pubs with an important AV threat (and that's good). However, most of the time, those AV guys are ROOF campers with forge-gun and commando swarms who are happy (or idiots), sitting there.
To be honest, I have better time using my Incubus on PC against the major corporations which are fielding pilots that are among the best and forge-gun that must be bewitched to obtain such an accuracy.
Otherwise, you could add WP for mobile CRU to promote the transport/teamply side of the dropships and change the plates weight see more here.
Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
60
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Posted - 2014.09.05 15:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Actually, I forgot to write the ISK reduction, we are thinking 250k ISK?
Why are you guys so obsessed with the ISK reduction ? While it is a real ISK sink when you train those and learn to fly, a fully prototype dropship is in league with the cost of prototype tanks. And if you reduce the ISK cost, ADS will be cheaper than a prototype tank while being a more tactical asset. This would make no-sense.
Please, do NOT reduce the price of ADS ! This would be completely stupid !
CCP Rattati wrote:reduce the ADS K/D since they are longer out of engagement.
It is all what it is about ? Kill death ratio of pilots ? Look, I'm clearly not the best pilot ever. However I have done enough fights in pub/FW/PC to know my job. A good AV teamwork (I'm thinking in particular to forges in PC who are doing that for a very long time now) can prevent a dropship from doing massive kills. Otherwise, there would be 4 to 5 dropships in each side of every PC.
Where we do massive kills is in pub and FW when whole teams are camping on buildings/towers (thanks the logistics guys in gorgon and viper for that). And seriously, these days, I do more kills with my dren sentinel and dragonfly scout than with a proto ADS (look at your numbers damn it ! Most of the dropships that are doing massives amont of kills are the ones with the gunner glitch).
The only way my Incubus is surclassing my infantry gear, it is at taking down dropships. But that's 18.000.000 SP and hundreds of millions of ISK spent, and I don't even count the hours needed to master the dropship and evasive actions.
Anyway, I feel I spend to much time trying to suggest improvements to vehicles gameplay by writing logical things. In a way I should have expect that. I'm dropship pilot, I saw so much absurd things in a year and six month of game to be surprised by anything. Do whatever you want, but you can't take the sky from me.
Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
69
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Posted - 2014.09.07 14:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Finn Colman wrote:Evan Gotabor wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Actually, I forgot to write the ISK reduction, we are thinking 250k ISK? Why are you guys so obsessed with the ISK reduction ? While it is a real ISK sink when you train those and learn to fly, a fully prototype dropship is in league with the cost of prototype tanks. And if you reduce the ISK cost, ADS will be cheaper than a prototype tank while being a more tactical asset. This would make no-sense. Please, do NOT reduce the price of ADS ! This would be completely stupid ! And what about starting pilots, like me? It's quite a steep price to pay to learn one role, and as you said it's not an easy thing to learn... My basic A/DS (that is a basic tier A/DS--due to the fact that A/DS are not really tiered--with basic modules and one militia turret) costs me just about 354,750 ISK Perhaps an actual tiering system for A/DS is in order to define the new pilots, and the veterans as well as the price points of each.
Learning to fly ADS is... well problematic. And it has been so ever since the ADS were introduced. The problematic is :
At proto level an ADS cost more or less the same than proto tanks (average 500.000 isk)
However at standard level it cost almost 400.000 isk for the lower fits (lower mean less survivability, so more ISK sink).
And there is no way in my mind to have less costly dropships without unbalancing the proto price. I like the idea of tiered ADS that you can unlock with the gallente/caldari dropship skill.
Tier 1 : 100.000 isk with 3 modules, limited PG/CPU capability (just enough for an advanced turret and 2 advanced modules)
Tier 2 : 300.000 isk with 4 modules, the same dropship as we have know
Tier 3 : 500.000 isk with 5 modules, the cutting edge dropship which need to have a lot of proto modules and equipment. High risks (700.000 to 800.000 isk), but high rewards.
The same thing can be applied to tanks.
Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
74
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Posted - 2014.09.11 18:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The dark cloud wrote:When those swarm changes go trough then the ADS will become just a flying coffin and a nonfactor in every aspect. All it needs is a cloaked scout with a swarm launcher and there goes the dropship up in flames. They wont be aible to take damage and aswell not be capable to avoid it. All right, I will bite. How does this happen, with numbers?
Numbers aren't the answer to everything. Not this time.
I will repeat what I have already said. Changing the prices of ADS is stupid if you don't put the tanks in league with those of ADS. Currently proto ADS cost the same as proto tanks. If you change the price of ADS without changing the prices of tanks, they would become more obsolete than they already are (go see your numbers, there are less and less tanks in PC, they are more and more replaced by AV or dropship). The reason is that a dropship is as costly AND give a tactical advantage in anti-infantry or in AV.
The only good points I see in that is more dogfights for my rail incubus and more allies decoy to take AV in my stead (pubs/FW/PC).
That was for the ISK part.
Now, what you are trying to set up with swarm/ads numbers is very interesting and very dangerous at the same time. What you SHOULD do (but you don't do it) is to take as a basis the ADS versus Swarm WITHOUT the afterburner. You should balance this mechanic first.
To me, the afterburner shouldn't be more vital for a dropship than the cloak for a scout. However, it is for the moment and will become even more after your release...
You should change the afterburner mechanics, make it like the shield booster (a single impulse with a long reload). Something that can save your life with a great boost on your propulsion (the dropship can go from stable to half speed in a single second).
However, this module wouldn't be as OP as it is for the moment (great boost on a long time).
This would allow more experienced pilots to fit others modules while giving a chance to the new and courageous pilots to learn without beaing automatically destroyed.
If you do this, then the swarm should have a speed EQUAL to the maximal ADS speed. If a dropship go from stable to max speed, it would be badly damaged, probably destroyed from the time it go from 0km/h to full.
However a pilot who is still in movement (a pilot that can't do an effective suppressing fire on the ground) would take hits but can manage to survive.
Plus, you didn't even evocate the problem of speed of Incubus. With their useless hardeners, they must fit plates. And when you fit plates (even with the LVL 5 in the skill that reduce weight), you are still too slow and you eventually take more hits than a python. And I don't see anywhere any change about the weight disparity beetween 60mm and 120mm plates.
If you keep your stats and ideas, we will end-up like The dark cloud said in flying coffins. But in the end, we will loose much more money than we currently loose even with the (stupid) idea of cost reduction.
Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
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