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Rattati, The Man, how about some sniper love, dude?

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IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 179	Posted - 2014.06.21 14:56:00 - [1] - Quote I haven't had a chance to actually talk to you yet; I'm a huge "fanboi" if you will, regardless of the sad news that's come out about DUST's future while I've been deployed overseas, and YOU, Rattati... A Marine can't help but like a guy who's succinct, factual, TRUTHFUL, and not afraid to call people out. Anyway, I still love this game, and can't wait to get home and spend all my SP on Gal commandos and play with the new weapons. However... I still have a LOT of points invested in the sniper skill tree, and it's a skill tree that I've neglected to capitalize on for a long time now. The class is... well, sorely lacking. Damage output, ability to deliver effective fire on target, specialized modules, etc., are all lacking here. The simplest of my gripes is something that I've seen come up lately in the forums about turrets, and thus I believe could be changed relatively easily- the RETICULE. I bloody HATE this thing. This is what I feel is preventing snipers from really being able to deliver effective fire on point targets, and thus really contribute to the fight. At any significant range, it completely obscures the target. How can I make head shots reliably when the entire target is covered by my reticule? Can we possibly get this solid dot replaced by a hollow circle? You could make the open space the same size as the current dot is now, or maybe even up to 50% larger. Think more in terms of the Halo sniper reticule. I always thought it was nice how tight it was, allowing you to SEE, but still have to immensely accurate. If I get a response to this, I'll put down more of my thoughts on how to better the class. I seem to remember somewhere that you Devs were talking about taking a look at sniper life a while back, but I could be mistaken. Whaddya say?
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 179	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:01:00 - [2] - Quote ~Reserved~
IVIaster LUKE Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 543	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote I miss you guys (snipers). The good o'l days of "Manus Peak". "We're in the spirit world now Billy...is that a chicken?"
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 180	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:18:00 - [4] - Quote IVIaster LUKE wrote: I miss you guys (snipers). The good o'l days of "Manus Peak". Lol Embarrassingly, I never learned any of the names of the maps. I just run around, hiding behind buildings, laying in bushes, crouching under staircases, and shoot as many faceplates as I can hit. With that reticule though, it's just... hard. In real life, We'll have either an "non" reticule, with the stadia lines dropping off before the connect at a center point, or an open reticule like the one I described, or a chevron that's set just below where you'll actually be placing your target. People say Battlefield scopes faithfully render the idea, even if I know from experience that other garbage shooters (Call of Dookey, I'm looking at you. ) do not. I HATE having my target stand off at 300+ meters, having the reticle blink between red and blue, even though I've not moved a single millimeter. It's a combination of a lot of things- the sniper scope in this game feels like it's magnification is weak, more akin to 4x than whatever the game says it is (I can't remember). I also feel strongly about having a zoom option, at least to switch between magnification levels- say, a setting for 10X and a setting for 40x/60x. That's about where normal RL scopes weigh in. Some even go up to 80x and 160x. If we can't get a change of reticule, could we get better zoom apertures so that the reticule doesn't cover up my whole target at range?
Yeeeuuuupppp 360	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:36:00 - [5] - Quote Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 180	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:43:00 - [6] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Are you being serious? The ishukone is awesome. It has a great RoF, and stacking damage mods makes it easy. You shouldn't be whining about proficiency though. Lvl 3 isn't lvl 5, after all. Skill up to max before you ask for more damage or officer rifles. We snipers don't need an "easy button," I'd just like to see some more friendly implementation to make our niche more viable.
Egonz4 363	Posted - 2014.06.21 15:56:00 - [7] - Quote Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Master of The Flaylock
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 180	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:01:00 - [8] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Excuse my french, but f*** redline snipers. In any case, I think that making the sniper class more viable might bring them closer to the fight. A lot of the fear behind a sniper staying in the redline is how vulnerable we are. No real ability to fight in a concerted engagement makes it really, really risky to come in closer, especially since the class IS so weak, and has no benefit to up-close combat. We have to fit ridiculously expensive modules to make us even remotely effective- this makes people afraid to come closer. Unless you have all sniper skills to lvl 5 and fit nothing but proto, you might as well go play militia assault.
Cody Sietz Sver true blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3388	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:03:00 - [9] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Sadly, I agree. I don't hate snipers or their rifles...but i do hate the redline and the people sit inside of it. Low risk, high reward. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 180	Posted - 2014.06.21 16:07:00 - [10] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Sadly, I agree. I don't hate snipers or their rifles...but i do hate the redline and the people sit inside of it. Low risk, high reward. I agree as well. But maybe if we make snipers actually dangerous, they wouldn't have to sit in the redline? I DEFINITELY want a redline fix. it's a sink hole into which good game balance and mechanics have gone to drown and die.

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2992	Posted - 2014.06.21 18:37:00 - [11] - Quote It all comes down to this: do you think balancing DUST should focus on End-Game players that have all skills at level 5 and nearly unlimited ISK and only run Proto suits with proto modules. Then once end-game is on equal terms to change the differences between tiers so that public contracts can be competitive and fun for players that don't have max skills. Or do you think the game should focus balance on Public Contracts where there are equal number of people all running MLT, STD, ADV, and PRO gear simultaneously. Focusing on the FotM gear and toning it down until equal distribution of items/gear/suits/etc. then tweaking numbers for high-end players Hotfix Alpha & Bravo have been working in the first style. While snipers seems to be taking the second style of balancing. I agree with the first style because I am an end-game player. I'm ahead of the game, if something changes and becomes the new FoTM I've already skilled into it before it is OP. When a FotM item is reduced I don't often complain because I have back-up items and playstyles to use. I've got a variety of low-SP alts (about 5M SP) so I understand the desire for just bringing in Pub match balance first. But because of that style the Sniper has been balanced for Pub Matches while other weapons are balanced for Planetary Conquest. The sniper rifle is situational at best. I can use a shotgun, swarm launcher, mass driver, laser rifle, or the 4 racial rifles for an entire match without using a different one.You can do that in Pubs with a sniper but you won't be helping your team. you can't run point defense with the low damage it does. you can be a deterrent in paths that people follow because you can't render the enemies. "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 44	Posted - 2014.06.21 20:16:00 - [12] - Quote Snipers need no buff or nerf, I'd say they are fine the way they are. For those who say it's iffy on damage, it can peg someone from ACROSS the map. So if you want a damage buff, I say nerf the range so you have to get outta the red line. Either keep your ability to have your unlimited range and keep the damage as it is, or you lose your range with a damage buff so you have to step outta your red line.
Cpl Foster USMC The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1004	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:41:00 - [13] - Quote +1 for your name... +100 for Chesty Puller +100 for Semper Fi +100 for Sniper Love stop by if you see me in the Redline area...I'll be cooking MRE's and shootin' redberries...... stop complaining about Valid Tactics and kill those bastards....you bastards
Everything Dies Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 769	Posted - 2014.06.21 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote 1. Give snipers some sort of reticule for hipfire (even if it's bigger than the HMGs)--just give some idea of where my shot will go if I need to defend myself! 2. Better zoom when scoping would be more beneficial than a simple damage buff, as a buff would punish newer players that can only run low-EHP suits much more than proto vets. Split the two variations of sniper rifles (not counting the charge, which exists unto itself) and give the tactical rifles the zoom of the Thales and let the regular versions approach the Thales damage output. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Mex-0 The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 21	Posted - 2014.06.21 22:02:00 - [15] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Excuse my french, but f*** redline snipers. In any case, I think that making the sniper class more viable might bring them closer to the fight. A lot of the fear behind a sniper staying in the redline is how vulnerable we are. No real ability to fight in a concerted engagement makes it really, really risky to come in closer, especially since the class IS so weak, and has no benefit to up-close combat. We have to fit ridiculously expensive modules to make us even remotely effective- this makes people afraid to come closer. Unless you have all sniper skills to lvl 5 and fit nothing but proto, you might as well go play militia assault. Usually, I die because a proto fitted redline sniper shoots me down while i am hacking an objective. But that doesn't matter for me that much since I can just hunt them down after respawning. I actually like redline snipers. It's just fun to kill them after sneaking up on them in my Caldari scout. Just your average combat rifle wielding scout.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 944	Posted - 2014.06.21 22:20:00 - [16] - Quote Sniper love? Difficult, considering the redline has yet to receive some Dev hate (go ahead, flag my post for bringing up a major balancing aspect crucial to the topic). Many of my suits already can get one/two shotted. So what sort or "love" is needed? More damage? Maybe at lower tiers, unless you want to add more problems to the standard/advanced/prototype progression equation (which is currently screwed up, but CCP has made slightly better with Bravo). Or maybe "love" as in amount of sway. Can't say if decreasing scope sway would be negative, so by all means, go for it. Or perhaps "love" as in other aspects, like range/ROF/clip/etc. Range is good. I can be pegged from people deeply embedded in the redline when I am in the middle of a map (usually where the Dom objective is&beyond). People actually in the map can hit even further. Range is fine. ROF seems fine enough. Clip for snipers seems good (but variants may [not?] have issues). Zoom? Eh, go for it. Or "love" as in maps? Because unless a client side update happens (a long shot), sniper friendly maps won't happen. And regardless, any serious sniper love (that directly improves killing potential) without first/simultaneously addressing the redline issue would be foolish. But there I go again, realizing that some issues can overlap. So really, fix the small things (render/reticule/whatever). Then, if that isn't enough, a longer look (that includes the redline) may be in order. So yeah. I'm down for some small sniper love. I am a minotaur.
Leovarian L Lavitz Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 1100	Posted - 2014.06.21 22:27:00 - [17] - Quote How to fix snipers: Increase their headshot damage multiplier the closer they get. Keep the current multiplier the same for the super long shot, it will be the base. Then, coming in from 600 meters add +50% headshot damage modifier at 300 meters, add another +50% (for a total of +100%) at 200 meters, then add another 50% at 150 meters (for a total of an additional +150%), and add another 50% at 100 meters (+200% head shot multiplier), and a final +50% at 50 meters or closer for a grand final bonus of 250% bonus on top of the current head shot bonus. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 105	Posted - 2014.06.21 22:49:00 - [18] - Quote I would be genuinely happy just to hear that snipers are getting some attention. I'll even be pleased at this point if rattati comes on to this thread and says "your having a laugh we all hate snipers". to the thread I say this, the sniper rifles are not in a good place and are far from 'fine' don't believe me? grab an ishukone and go do a p.c match... if you also happen to believe that a sniper should be within 300 meters then PLEASE do it within that range... I Already know what happens at this suggestion, I've tried it as well as other tactics. Too many people will keep going on about redlines everytime there is a sniper thread and everytime I say "snipers are not the only people that use the red line therefore it is not snipers you are complaining about go and make a thread about red lines in the suggestions threads" "snipers do not care about the red line, the fact that they use it stems from the lack of half decent vantage points inside the middle of the map areas, we never asked for bowl shape maps, and I can honestly say I have never seen a sniper asking for any kind of extra red line benefits" Please note I have even added threads myself asking for changes to the red line areas and you know what folks.. I didn't see a single one of you people who regularly say about snipers getting no help til the red line is gone put so much as a plus one on there even though the suggestion would of completely fixed the problem. so you say about the red lines being the reason to keep anybody who enjoys sniping in a bad place in this game... ok I CALL B.S I don't for a second believe that the red line being taken away would stop you complaining about snipers. anybody who has seen good results from a good sniper recently has seen it in a pub match. If I'm wrong feel free to post on here saying what you saw in a p.c match that means that snipers are still 'fine' . only from p.c battles . not including thales rifles, you can not gain a thales rifle through choice. to the author, +1 mate I'm a dedicated sniper in this game and I miss being able to take part in p.c matches in the way I like. so good luck getting a positive response mate, fingers crossed. (before anybody gets all 'your a coward', etc I also play heavy and a.v roles. sniping is my preferred game style and my corp would agree with me that I am an asset to the team when I do it.)
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1382	Posted - 2014.06.21 23:09:00 - [19] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. The troll is strong with this one.
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 111	Posted - 2014.06.21 23:16:00 - [20] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. what i think of when charging fg

Michael Arck 4801	Posted - 2014.06.21 23:33:00 - [21] - Quote No. Nope. Nah. Negative. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1382	Posted - 2014.06.21 23:35:00 - [22] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. ADS - personally I think they're unbalanced but they do actually take significant damage from large rails, forges, even swarms now the resistance bug is fixed. Tanks - take significant damage from all of the above plus JLAVs, plasma cannons, AV grenades, remote explosives, proxies. Forgers - guess you mean tower forgers, who take damage from snipers, dropships, infantry dropped by dropships, and OBs (their location is much easier to work out than snipers' as they are much shorter ranged than snipers [they have no scope] and fire massive bolts of lightning). Drive by heavies - vulnerable to everything tanks are vulnerable to. Only redline snipers take literally no damage unless a red in the same role is involved.
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 111	Posted - 2014.06.21 23:51:00 - [23] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. ADS - personally I think they're unbalanced but they do actually take significant damage from large rails, forges, even swarms now the resistance bug is fixed. Tanks - take significant damage from all of the above plus JLAVs, plasma cannons, AV grenades, remote explosives, proxies. Forgers - guess you mean tower forgers, who take damage from snipers, dropships, infantry dropped by dropships, and OBs (their location is much easier to work out than snipers' as they are much shorter ranged than snipers [they have no scope] and fire massive bolts of lightning). Drive by heavies - vulnerable to everything tanks are vulnerable to. Only redline snipers take literally no damage unless a red in the same role is involved. -face palm- i mean those are the things a sniper must worry about even while in the redline..... what i think of when charging fg
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1382	Posted - 2014.06.22 00:10:00 - [24] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. ADS - personally I think they're unbalanced but they do actually take significant damage from large rails, forges, even swarms now the resistance bug is fixed. Tanks - take significant damage from all of the above plus JLAVs, plasma cannons, AV grenades, remote explosives, proxies. Forgers - guess you mean tower forgers, who take damage from snipers, dropships, infantry dropped by dropships, and OBs (their location is much easier to work out than snipers' as they are much shorter ranged than snipers [they have no scope] and fire massive bolts of lightning). Drive by heavies - vulnerable to everything tanks are vulnerable to. Only redline snipers take literally no damage unless a red in the same role is involved. -face palm- i mean those are the things a sniper must worry about even while in the redline..... I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Sounds like you should position yourself better.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 490	Posted - 2014.06.22 00:52:00 - [25] - Quote Anything that can 'counter' the redline sniper (tankers included, though the railgun range nerf has curtailed their existence sharply) requires great risk And enormously disproportionate effort: the sniper is likely embedded in a difficult to reach nook; often heavily tanked in a Proto Logi/Heavy, possibly with a heavy dose of triage hives; protected by the redline timer! Which severely curtails offensive action against them. Quite simply sniper love can only come at the same time as the redline is truly looked at. Pushing the redline 200m back (with relevant spawn tinkering) would solve a lot mof redline issues by making redline sniping entirely inefficient. On the subject of reasonable sniper buffs, however, I agree strongly with the headshot damage multiplier and the scope/zoom fidelity being improved. Increased headshot multiplier rewards accuracy and the zoom fidelity allows the sniper to employ their range and actually land some headshots outside of luck at range. All that said, any discussion about snipers, in the current state of the game, must include discussion about the redline: declining to discuss the redline is disingenuous, because the redline simply IS a very large factor, due to its currently awful placing on not just some but most maps.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1009	Posted - 2014.06.22 01:15:00 - [26] - Quote 1. The mid-tier sniper rifles are essentially useless. They need something. Better zoom maybe. 2. The actual zoomed-in sniper reticule is far too busy. Give me a simple cross hair. The thread crosshair I tape on my TV screen is a pain in the ass. My cat keeps pulling it off. 3. Having to fit a ck.0 commando suit with 3 complex damage mods and a charge sniper rifle just to bring a proto heavy to half armor is a bit silly. 4. All headshots with a sniper rifle should be automatic kills on any suit. Period. 5. Having to use a dropship to get a good sniping location is silly. The lack of sniper locations in the middle of maps (aside from buildings) is a pain. But if the devs want me to stay out of the middle of maps, I will. 6. Give me a hip fire reticle. All of the above things are giving snipers incentive to sit behind the redline. Make snipers more effective at medium range and they'll come in closer. Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:25:00 - [27] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Sniper love?... ...So really, fix the small things (render/reticule/whatever). Then, if that isn't enough, a longer look (that includes the redline) may be in order. So yeah. I'm down for some small sniper love. This is exactly what my post is about. All of the other information you just brought up... I didn't. Lol We're in agreement. These two things are my main issue; the others can wait.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:28:00 - [28] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: How to fix snipers: Increase their headshot damage multiplier the closer they get. Keep the current multiplier the same for the super long shot, it will be the base. Then, coming in from 600 meters add +50% headshot damage modifier at 300 meters, add another +50% (for a total of +100%) at 200 meters, then add another 50% at 150 meters (for a total of an additional +150%), and add another 50% at 100 meters (+200% head shot multiplier), and a final +50% at 50 meters or closer for a grand final bonus of 250% bonus on top of the current head shot bonus. 600 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus 300 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 50% 200 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 100% 150 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 150% 100 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 200% 50 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 250% This rewards snipers for getting out of the redline and encourages them to get into the action! As the risk increases, their reward increases, and overall fun increases. I LOVE the idea of scaling head shot rewards, although I believe that these, especially piled on top of the bonus we already have (I have no idea what it actually is) would likely be... excessive. Lol I don't think anyone should be able to one-shot a fully tanked sentinel of any kind, and these numbers sound like they could damn near one-shot a Maddy. Maybe CCP could use their data hamsters to drum up some good numbers?
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:36:00 - [29] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? I've got to back up the guys on the "redline isn't the main issue" front. I've been sniping from WELL outside the redline (meaning in the playable area) AND from within it's lofty protection (being a douche, admittedly), and got popped by a rail tank who was IN the redline, regardless. They have better zoom functions than we do, and more accuracy at long range with zero sway (as they should. A tank is a f***ing machine.). The issue is not MAINLY the redline. The issue is offering a sniper incentive to LEAVE it. The dude whose idea it was to offer headshot bonuses scaled to diminishing distance is a frickin genius. That's one great incentive to leave the redline. What about WP bonuses for shots fired from a sniper rifle outside the redline? like only 35 WP for kills while inside the redline, while a solid 60 for kills outside? We can't whine about one class and call for action against the redline. There are WAY more classes being used that can't abuse the mechanic, and so it affects too few voices, and so not enough voices will be heard to change it. Let's get snipers into a position that it benefits them to LEAVE the redline, instead of trying to get it abolished. The redline DOES NEED TO GO, but that's not what this thread is about. Let's stay on topic.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:37:00 - [30] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: No. Nope. Nah. Negative. Well, at least no one can say that you didn't bring a well informed, carefully thought out counter argument to bear on the subject. Thank you for your sage input.

IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:40:00 - [31] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. ADS - personally I think they're unbalanced but they do actually take significant damage from large rails, forges, even swarms now the resistance bug is fixed. Tanks - take significant damage from all of the above plus JLAVs, plasma cannons, AV grenades, remote explosives, proxies. Forgers - guess you mean tower forgers, who take damage from snipers, dropships, infantry dropped by dropships, and OBs (their location is much easier to work out than snipers' as they are much shorter ranged than snipers [they have no scope] and fire massive bolts of lightning). Drive by heavies - vulnerable to everything tanks are vulnerable to. Only redline snipers take literally no damage unless a red in the same role is involved. Literally every argument you've just made also applies to snipers. I've been popped by tanks, forge snipers (not always on top of towers, there, homie), ADS, scouts, etc. Let's get our heads out of whining about a crutch (vis-a-vis, the redline. That IS what it is), and get talking about making incentives for snipers to LEAVE the accursed place. Topic. Stay on it.
Egonz4 367	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:41:00 - [32] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Sadly, I agree. I don't hate snipers or their rifles...but i do hate the redline and the people sit inside of it. Low risk, high reward. I agree as well. But maybe if we make snipers actually dangerous, they wouldn't have to sit in the redline? I DEFINITELY want a redline fix. it's a sink hole into which good game balance and mechanics have gone to drown and die. No, it doesn't matter how powerful they'll be...people will still take the easy way out Master of The Flaylock
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 50	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:44:00 - [33] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: I would be genuinely happy just to hear that snipers are getting some attention. I'll even be pleased at this point if rattati comes on to this thread and says "your having a laugh we all hate snipers". to the thread I say this, the sniper rifles are not in a good place and are far from 'fine' don't believe me? grab an ishukone and go do a p.c match... if you also happen to believe that a sniper should be within 300 meters then PLEASE do it within that range... I Already know what happens at this suggestion, I've tried it as well as other tactics. Too many people will keep going on about redlines everytime there is a sniper thread and everytime I say "snipers are not the only people that use the red line therefore it is not snipers you are complaining about go and make a thread about red lines in the suggestions threads" "snipers do not care about the red line, the fact that they use it stems from the lack of half decent vantage points inside the middle of the map areas, we never asked for bowl shape maps, and I can honestly say I have never seen a sniper asking for any kind of extra red line benefits" Please note I have even added threads myself asking for changes to the red line areas and you know what folks.. I didn't see a single one of you people who regularly say about snipers getting no help til the red line is gone put so much as a plus one on there even though the suggestion would of completely fixed the problem. so you say about the red lines being the reason to keep anybody who enjoys sniping in a bad place in this game... ok I CALL B.S I don't for a second believe that the red line being taken away would stop you complaining about snipers. anybody who has seen good results from a good sniper recently has seen it in a pub match. If I'm wrong feel free to post on here saying what you saw in a p.c match that means that snipers are still 'fine' . only from p.c battles . not including thales rifles, you can not gain a thales rifle through choice. to the author, +1 mate I'm a dedicated sniper in this game and I miss being able to take part in p.c matches in the way I like. so good luck getting a positive response mate, fingers crossed. (before anybody gets all 'your a coward', etc I also play heavy and a.v roles. sniping is my preferred game style and my corp would agree with me that I am an asset to the team when I do it.) Not intending to insult but I stopped reading after 'sniping in PCs'... Normally in PCs there isn't room for snipers, unless your an absolute beastly sniper that has the capability to guard a control node and take out different forms of protoers. Only two MAYBE three snipers leap to mind who are any good. I haven't seen you in action, so I can't judge fairly on you. Most snipers I face off against are 'CoD' like snipers, or just get a dropshit to go MCC sniping. So rarely any will get an inch of respect from me. TO TOPIC, perhaps boost the zoom fidelity and the actual aim retinal, but otherwise you better skill up and get a few damage mods to better your chances as a sniper.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:49:00 - [34] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: 1. The mid-tier sniper rifles are essentially useless. They need something. Better zoom maybe. 2. The actual zoomed-in sniper reticule is far too busy. Give me a simple cross hair. The thread crosshair I tape on my TV screen is a pain in the ass. My cat keeps pulling it off. 3. Having to fit a ck.0 commando suit with 3 complex damage mods and a charge sniper rifle just to bring a proto heavy to half armor is a bit silly. 4. All headshots with a sniper rifle should be automatic kills on any suit. Period. 5. Having to use a dropship to get a good sniping location is silly. The lack of sniper locations in the middle of maps (aside from buildings) is a pain. But if the devs want me to stay out of the middle of maps, I will. 6. Give me a hip fire reticule. All of the above things are giving snipers incentive to sit behind the redline. Make snipers more effective at medium range and they'll come in closer. Agree on 1. Better zoom across the board makes it more a niche weapon, and expresses it's actual purpose. 2. Yep. First and foremost, we need a new reticule. This solid dot in the middle of the screen obscuring targets at the intended range of engagement is... well, stupid. 3. Eh... yes and no. I don't want this setup to be able to that kind of damage with a body shot, but it should do this with a headshot. Heavies should at least be able to take two head shots. This is the future; they're tanks with legs, for God's sake. 4. No. HELL no. People would cry "OP!" until the sniper rifle got nerved into oblivion, and I wouldn't blame them. We don't need an easy button- if you can't hit the head twice, be an assault man. 5. Yes. Using a derpship to get anywhere useful is a chore, and requires skills that are completely superfluous in sniping. 6. NO. Rambo never used a sniper rifle, and he's the only man who's allowed to fire from the hip. Get an SMG and use a sidearm, or be a commando sniper and pack an AR. Problem solved. Sniper rifles are a niche weapon, not frickin hip cannons.
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 51	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:54:00 - [35] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: 6. NO. Rambo never used a sniper rifle, and he's the only man who's allowed to fire from the hip. Get an SMG and use a sidearm, or be a commando sniper and pack an AR. Problem solved. Sniper rifles are a niche weapon, not frickin hip cannons. I remember the days when you could hip fire a charge rifle and it would go in one solid direction... NO HIP FIRE RETICLE!!!
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 02:58:00 - [36] - Quote Cogadh Draco wrote: IrishWebster wrote: 6. NO. Rambo never used a sniper rifle, and he's the only man who's allowed to fire from the hip. Get an SMG and use a sidearm, or be a commando sniper and pack an AR. Problem solved. Sniper rifles are a niche weapon, not frickin hip cannons. I remember the days when you could hip fire a charge rifle and it would go in one solid direction... NO HIP FIRE RETICLE!!! This. That's f***ing terrifying. I vote no. In NO world should I be allowed to hip fire a sniper rifle twice, automatically outgunning some super-SP-invested sneaky son of a bee sting who managed to sneak up on me while scoped in. He deserves his kill as much as you do, for outplaying you. Sorry.
Leovarian L Lavitz Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 1103	Posted - 2014.06.22 03:04:00 - [37] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: How to fix snipers: Increase their headshot damage multiplier the closer they get. Keep the current multiplier the same for the super long shot, it will be the base. Then, coming in from 600 meters add +50% headshot damage modifier at 300 meters, add another +50% (for a total of +100%) at 200 meters, then add another 50% at 150 meters (for a total of an additional +150%), and add another 50% at 100 meters (+200% head shot multiplier), and a final +50% at 50 meters or closer for a grand final bonus of 250% bonus on top of the current head shot bonus. 600 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus 300 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 50% 200 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 100% 150 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 150% 100 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 200% 50 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 250% This rewards snipers for getting out of the redline and encourages them to get into the action! As the risk increases, their reward increases, and overall fun increases. I LOVE the idea of scaling head shot rewards, although I believe that these, especially piled on top of the bonus we already have (I have no idea what it actually is) would likely be... excessive. Lol I don't think anyone should be able to one-shot a fully tanked sentinel of any kind, and these numbers sound like they could damn near one-shot a Maddy. Maybe CCP could use their data hamsters to drum up some good numbers? I ran the numbers, a fully tanked sentinal dies to one shot only with thales @ 50 meters. I feel that risking the thales at 50 meters is definitely worth the 1 shot kill reward. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.06.22 03:09:00 - [38] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: How to fix snipers: Increase their headshot damage multiplier the closer they get. Keep the current multiplier the same for the super long shot, it will be the base. Then, coming in from 600 meters add +50% headshot damage modifier at 300 meters, add another +50% (for a total of +100%) at 200 meters, then add another 50% at 150 meters (for a total of an additional +150%), and add another 50% at 100 meters (+200% head shot multiplier), and a final +50% at 50 meters or closer for a grand final bonus of 250% bonus on top of the current head shot bonus. 600 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus 300 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 50% 200 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 100% 150 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 150% 100 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 200% 50 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 250% This rewards snipers for getting out of the redline and encourages them to get into the action! As the risk increases, their reward increases, and overall fun increases. I LOVE the idea of scaling head shot rewards, although I believe that these, especially piled on top of the bonus we already have (I have no idea what it actually is) would likely be... excessive. Lol I don't think anyone should be able to one-shot a fully tanked sentinel of any kind, and these numbers sound like they could damn near one-shot a Maddy. Maybe CCP could use their data hamsters to drum up some good numbers? I ran the numbers, a fully tanked sentinal dies to one shot head shot only with thales @ 50 meters. I feel that risking the thales at 50 meters is definitely worth the 1 head shot kill reward. Body damage is the same! (Damage modded pro commando, prof V sniper rifle) Even though, what kind of damage would you be able to do at 200 meters in a single headshot? I feel like the numbers are also too linear. Maybe increasing jumps between distances along a bell curve, for instance? Besides, in real life, a round needs a certain distance to counter-act precession and wobbling, let alone to achieve terminal velocity. I feel like such a regimented increase in damage across such a regular interval is... unrealistic.
Leovarian L Lavitz Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 1103	Posted - 2014.06.22 03:15:00 - [39] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: How to fix snipers: Increase their headshot damage multiplier the closer they get. Keep the current multiplier the same for the super long shot, it will be the base. Then, coming in from 600 meters add +50% headshot damage modifier at 300 meters, add another +50% (for a total of +100%) at 200 meters, then add another 50% at 150 meters (for a total of an additional +150%), and add another 50% at 100 meters (+200% head shot multiplier), and a final +50% at 50 meters or closer for a grand final bonus of 250% bonus on top of the current head shot bonus. 600 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus 300 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 50% 200 Meters: Current Headshot bonus + 100% 150 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 150% 100 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 200% 50 Meters: Current Headshot Bonus + 250% This rewards snipers for getting out of the redline and encourages them to get into the action! As the risk increases, their reward increases, and overall fun increases. I LOVE the idea of scaling head shot rewards, although I believe that these, especially piled on top of the bonus we already have (I have no idea what it actually is) would likely be... excessive. Lol I don't think anyone should be able to one-shot a fully tanked sentinel of any kind, and these numbers sound like they could damn near one-shot a Maddy. Maybe CCP could use their data hamsters to drum up some good numbers? I ran the numbers, a fully tanked sentinal dies to one shot head shot only with thales @ 50 meters. I feel that risking the thales at 50 meters is definitely worth the 1 head shot kill reward. Body damage is the same! (Damage modded pro commando, prof V sniper rifle) Even though, what kind of damage would you be able to do at 200 meters in a single headshot? I feel like the numbers are also too linear. Maybe increasing jumps between distances along a bell curve, for instance? Besides, in real life, a round needs a certain distance to counter-act precession and wobbling, let alone to achieve terminal velocity. I feel like such a regimented increase in damage across such a regular interval is... unrealistic. I was thinking about saying that the increase raises steadily the closer you get (so getting closer than 50 meters increases it point for point up to +300% at 0 meters). This is a scifi-railgun. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 370	Posted - 2014.06.22 05:34:00 - [40] - Quote A slightly different direction, but I had an idea a while back of letting snipers tag enemies for their squad. This would hopefully give snipers more options for WP, while also increasing their utility to a squad beyond just shooting people. As for your suggestions, I see nothing wrong with a more precise reticle and actual zoom options. On the topic of the redline (sorry to bring it up again), I have yet to see a persuasive argument against simply removing any WP gain from actions taken within the redline. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 16	Posted - 2014.06.22 12:20:00 - [41] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op yup what is a sniper discussion without a redline troll. "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
Cpl Foster USMC The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1008	Posted - 2014.06.22 13:03:00 - [42] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Poonmunch wrote: 1. The mid-tier sniper rifles are essentially useless. They need something. Better zoom maybe. 2. The actual zoomed-in sniper reticule is far too busy. Give me a simple cross hair. The thread crosshair I tape on my TV screen is a pain in the ass. My cat keeps pulling it off. 3. Having to fit a ck.0 commando suit with 3 complex damage mods and a charge sniper rifle just to bring a proto heavy to half armor is a bit silly. 4. All headshots with a sniper rifle should be automatic kills on any suit. Period. 5. Having to use a dropship to get a good sniping location is silly. The lack of sniper locations in the middle of maps (aside from buildings) is a pain. But if the devs want me to stay out of the middle of maps, I will. 6. Give me a hip fire reticule. All of the above things are giving snipers incentive to sit behind the redline. Make snipers more effective at medium range and they'll come in closer. Agree on 1. Better zoom across the board makes it more a niche weapon, and expresses it's actual purpose. 2. Yep. First and foremost, we need a new reticule. This solid dot in the middle of the screen obscuring targets at the intended range of engagement is... well, stupid. 3. Eh... yes and no. I don't want this setup to be able to that kind of damage with a body shot, but it should do this with a headshot. Heavies should at least be able to take two head shots. This is the future; they're tanks with legs, for God's sake. 4. No. HELL no. People would cry "OP!" until the sniper rifle got nerved into oblivion, and I wouldn't blame them. We don't need an easy button- if you can't hit the head twice, be an assault man. 5. Yes. Using a derpship to get anywhere useful is a chore, and requires skills that are completely superfluous in sniping. 6. NO. Rambo never used a sniper rifle, and he's the only man who's allowed to fire from the hip. Get an SMG and use a sidearm, or be a commando sniper and pack an AR. Problem solved. Sniper rifles are a niche weapon, not frickin hip cannons. #6- Chuck Norris is also allowed to fire from the hip.... #6C- Arnold too.... stop complaining about Valid Tactics and kill those bastards....you bastards
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 106	Posted - 2014.06.22 13:40:00 - [43] - Quote Your right draco, you haven't seen me in action. even in 1.7 I could still be asked to take part in p.c battles as a sniper. "skill up to get damage mods" good idea, good advice for any sniper who hasn't already. along with get the calmando suit to proto, fit three of them and make sure that you get your proficiency up to level 5. also your reload speed is worth investing in and so are nano hives. "I stopped paying attention at p.c battles" this is my point. why should ANY player be penalised in this way? please name one other player type who is considered a waste of a slot when they have already skilled into the role as far as they can? sniping Is my preferred role not my only one, at the moment I can take part in p.c battles but I know that I could be a much better team member as a sniper because I have already done it before. (and yes I do play as part of the team.) nice to see so many people on here staying on topic. I do actually like the idea of increasing headshot damage in ratio to distance, however I seriously doubt that many people would get anywhere as a sniper within the ranges of other rifles whilst zoom ranges are fixed and there is no reticule. .another problem would be that if scopes were fixed to allow that kind of play you will get quick scopers. .people don't want a sniper up close who can actually compete with their cqc weapons even if there was one made it would not be a sniper rifle. .Headshots from a sniper rifle should be a ohk most of the time but I do agree that heavy suits that are fully skilled into should take two. .if the range of sniper rifles range were to be decreased at the same time as decent vantages being placed into the maps then a sniper would be able to only cover for example one objective area at a time. (I'm not one for reducing sniper range at all, but it could work like this) .reducing the red line is not a bad idea as far as sniping goes it would mean some of the positions become non red line, but you would risk having times of being red lined with no way of re-spawning. . I wholeheartedly agree that snipers should be able to tag targets for our squads, meaning we could be a spotter as part of our role. . I think that the scopes should improved. . I also agree with the 'hollow" reticule . I don't think that needing a dropship Is that bad but I will agree it's a hinderance in ambush modes now
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 491	Posted - 2014.06.22 13:40:00 - [44] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: 3. Having to fit a ck.0 commando suit with 3 complex damage mods and a charge sniper rifle just to bring a proto heavy to half armor is a bit silly. In what way is it silly? Proto suits are just as much of a pain for us on the ground as for you in your hills. Fitting proto stuff to counter proto stuff is...reasonable. Poonmunch wrote: 4. All headshots with a sniper rifle should be automatic kills on any suit. Period. No ***** way. Can you say easy mode at that point? Seriously, what would be the point of Sentinels/Commandos at that point when Captain Redline can just destroy them with minimal risk and regardless of tank. With that you would utterly destroy heavies of all forms, so no way. As others, and myself, have suggested however, a headshot multiplier or some kind of progression would be reasonable: many sniper headshots are one-hit kills against those of us who do not just brick tank, or are at least enormous chunks of HP against moderately tanked suits. Poonmunch5 wrote: . Having to use a dropship to get a good sniping location is silly. The lack of sniper locations in the middle of maps (aside from buildings) is a pain. But if the devs want me to stay out of the middle of maps, I will. Again, this is a fix about the redline, and to a certain degree the access to higher buildings, but also because you are operating with blinkers on: for some reason many snipers simply sit in the redline and snipe from long range, where actually fighting at relatively short distances in the map would cure a lot of ills. Find a nook on Bravo and cover the Charlie advance, then move up and do it again for Alpha. You don't need to be 500,000m away to do your job, it's just that so many snipers refuse to risk their lives like every other merc actually fighting in the burnzone. Poonmunch wrote:** All of the above things are giving snipers incentive to sit behind the redline. Make snipers more effective at medium range and they'll come in closer. Again, they won't, because so many would just take the easy way out. Give them the buffs, by all means, but the redline needs to be pushed back 200m, so that all of the incredible positions are not protected by the redline.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2624	Posted - 2014.06.22 13:55:00 - [45] - Quote I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 210	Posted - 2014.06.22 14:17:00 - [46] - Quote Cpl Foster USMC wrote: #6- Chuck Norris is also allowed to fire from the hip.... #6C- Arnold too.... Chuck Norris doesn't count. I said "... man allowed to fire from the hip." Chuck Norris is much more than a mere man. How dare you imply otherwise. Arnold... I'm sorry, but he doesn't count anymore. I can't take that dude seriously. He's the governor of arguably the most ridiculous state in the USA, where the Marine Corps forces me to live. Oh, the crazy sh*t that I've seen...
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 210	Posted - 2014.06.22 14:26:00 - [47] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Again, they won't, because so many would just take the easy way out. Give them the buffs, by all means, but the redline needs to be pushed back 200m, so that all of the incredible positions are not protected by the redline. Can you provide some in-depth reasoning for why moving the redline back 200 meters would solve the redline abuse problem? I humbly disagree, but that's only because I think that the redline is a shortcut solution to a crippling and at best, lackluster spawning mechanic. I'd love to talk about the redline, but perhaps we should start another thread for this. This particular thread is about sniping and how it could be made better (not just for snipers, but to change the way snipers play the game, and therefore eliminating a lot of the whining being done by crybaby dust bunnies), which does NOT necessarily include changing the redline. Would it help? Probably. But... removing the redline for all snipers right now would mean eliminating the niche entirely, more likely than not, which I doubt is CCP's primary objective. Case in point; the sniper class is badly gimped. Our weapons are basically an afterthought.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.06.22 16:10:00 - [48] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. How does this fix anything? Bad troll is bad.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2624	Posted - 2014.06.22 16:48:00 - [49] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. How does this fix anything? Bad troll is bad. The fact that hardly anyone redline snipes now. Honestly I wanted the redline removed but this will do. Go back to hiding in your redline. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 957	Posted - 2014.06.22 19:02:00 - [50] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Arnold... I'm sorry, but he doesn't count anymore. I can't take that dude seriously. He's the governor of arguably the most ridiculous state in the USA, where the Marine Corps forces me to live. Oh, the crazy sh*t that I've seen... Good 'ol Ahnold. No longer the governor of anything except himself. Plus, he owns a tank. The one he used to pilot back in his time in the Austrian military. I don't see Chuck Norris doing anything cool now that he's old. Old age Arnie > old age Chuck (e cheese) Norris. Uh... Anyway... Snipers? Uh, yeah, maps need some of those stupid roof walls removed that prevent sniping and heavies from being able to get off the building. Plus, more ladders. Verticality is good for not just snipers, but good for creating interesting, non-one dimensional fights. I am a minotaur.

IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:37:00 - [51] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. How does this fix anything? Bad troll is bad. The fact that hardly anyone redline snipes now. Honestly I wanted the redline removed but this will do. Go back to hiding in your redline. Lol I don't snipe in the redline, and neither is this the point that I'm addressing. Attempting to hijack the thread by typing two random statements that are both disjointed and completely opinionated, lacking any supporting evidence or argument is trolling. In any case, if you're going to participate in the conversation, be constructive, and please stay on topic. Thank ye kindly.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2624	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:55:00 - [52] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. How does this fix anything? Bad troll is bad. The fact that hardly anyone redline snipes now. Honestly I wanted the redline removed but this will do. Go back to hiding in your redline. Lol I don't snipe in the redline, and neither is this the point that I'm addressing. Attempting to hijack the thread by typing two random statements that are both disjointed and completely opinionated, lacking any supporting evidence or argument is trolling. In any case, if you're going to participate in the conversation, be constructive, and please stay on topic. Thank ye kindly. Fine, fine. They're supposed to have customizations so you can change the scopes etc.. I'm assuming they'd have the same option for the reticule but they have yet to confirm the date for customizations. This was a while ago, maybe a year? Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 214	Posted - 2014.06.22 20:58:00 - [53] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I have snipers maxed out and I do not want them changed. This fixes the redline sniper abuse. How does this fix anything? Bad troll is bad. The fact that hardly anyone redline snipes now. Honestly I wanted the redline removed but this will do. Go back to hiding in your redline. Lol I don't snipe in the redline, and neither is this the point that I'm addressing. Attempting to hijack the thread by typing two random statements that are both disjointed and completely opinionated, lacking any supporting evidence or argument is trolling. In any case, if you're going to participate in the conversation, be constructive, and please stay on topic. Thank ye kindly. Fine, fine. They're supposed to have customizations so you can change the scopes etc.. I'm assuming they'd have the same option for the reticule but they have yet to confirm the date for customizations. This was a while ago, maybe a year? Ugh. I remember that. It WAS a long, long while ago, and I doubt it'll happen, now that the game has basically been put on the back-burner for Project Legion. The most I feel we can hope for, since they're working on changing the reticule for turret weapons, is a change of the default reticule for snipers. I'm trying to stay small in my requests in the hopes that the ease of actually delivering makes it more likely to actually happen. Lol
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 214	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:03:00 - [54] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Arnold... I'm sorry, but he doesn't count anymore. I can't take that dude seriously. He's the governor of arguably the most ridiculous state in the USA, where the Marine Corps forces me to live. Oh, the crazy sh*t that I've seen... Good 'ol Ahnold. No longer the governor of anything except himself. Plus, he owns a tank. The one he used to pilot back in his time in the Austrian military. I don't see Chuck Norris doing anything cool now that he's old. Old age Arnie > old age Chuck (e cheese) Norris. Uh... Anyway... Snipers? Uh, yeah, maps need some of those stupid roof walls removed that prevent sniping and heavies from being able to get off the building. Plus, more ladders. Verticality is good for not just snipers, but good for creating interesting, non-one dimensional fights. Yeah, but... this happened, and then THIS happened. Check. Mate. Agreed. More roofs should be opened up, and ladders would be a great boon, ESPECIALLY if we didn't have to stop in JUST the right spot to be able to hit a frickin button to climb up them... in slow motion. It's a very antiquated mechanic, really. We ought to be able to just have sticky physics with ladders that just allow us to run up to them and start climbing. But... these are some issues that would likely require a client update, and thus aren't likely to be implemented any time soon. I'd really just be happy to get a not-so-crappy reticule. Lol
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 217	Posted - 2014.06.23 02:06:00 - [55] - Quote Cpl Foster USMC wrote: +1 for your name... +100 for Chesty Puller +100 for Semper Fi +100 for Sniper Love stop by if you see me in the Redline area...I'll be cooking MRE's and shootin' redberries...... Whoa. The platoon on second deck in boot had a DI named Sgt Foster. That dude was a demon. Lol AMAZING drill instructor. What do you like about my name? My actual name, or alliance name? Let's get this reticule changed, for Chesty, and some all-around sniper love for Hathcock. Lol
Yeeeuuuupppp 363	Posted - 2014.06.23 03:36:00 - [56] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Are you being serious? The ishukone is awesome. It has a great RoF, and stacking damage mods makes it easy. You shouldn't be whining about proficiency though. Lvl 3 isn't lvl 5, after all. Skill up to max before you ask for more damage or officer rifles. We snipers don't need an "easy button," I'd just like to see some more friendly implementation to make our niche more viable. I haven't gotten a thales in ages. I just wanna murder peeps, but whenever I do have a thales they chase me. I tried the kaalakiota, good for counter snipping which is what I rarely have to do. I just can't seem to do lots of damage with the ishukone, I don't like having to 4 shot heavies. I can't skill or to proficiency V because I'm saving for my minmstar assault, so I'm kinda stuck Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2579	Posted - 2014.06.23 04:43:00 - [57] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op well your in luck, i'm pretty sure every other piece of equipment, suit, weapon, and vehicle has been addressed since the sniper rifle was last looked at. ffs AR's have been buffed then re-nerfed 3 times overs, since SR's were last buffed

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3064	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:36:00 - [58] - Quote I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 962	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:43:00 - [59] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Yeah, but... this happened, and then THIS happened. Check. Mate. Agreed. More roofs should be opened up, and ladders would be a great boon, ESPECIALLY if we didn't have to stop in JUST the right spot to be able to hit a frickin button to climb up them... in slow motion. It's a very antiquated mechanic, really. We ought to be able to just have sticky physics with ladders that just allow us to run up to them and start climbing. But... these are some issues that would likely require a client update, and thus aren't likely to be implemented any time soon. I'd really just be happy to get a not-so-crappy reticule. Lol I see your Chuck Norris propaganda and I raise you a personal message from Ahnold to you: here. But, if you insist on Chuck, you may be interested in helping him out: call today! And... Yeah, you are right on the ladders/roof point. Maybe with Legion. I myself would very much like a variable zoom with greater magnification capabilities. Hopefully that is more feasible. I am a minotaur.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 954	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:47:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Nothing does. 99% of people who snipe in DUST tend to be 250-400 meters in their spawn. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10393	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:51:00 - [61] - Quote Snipers have the least amount of risk, hence their reward should be very low. Increase their risk by forcing them out of the redline and making weapon fire show them on the minimap (So they have to displace after taking shots), then we can talk. (Do that to all weapons in general, not just snipers) Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Baal Omniscient Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1783	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:58:00 - [62] - Quote Also, since the MCC snipers cannot be prevented from getting in there, move the MCC just outside of the redline on maps where it's feasible to get on top so ADS pilots don't have to red-line-strafe-run them off. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3760	Posted - 2014.06.23 07:49:00 - [63] - Quote What needs to change is the way snipers work. There shouldn't be any scope sway before you ADS, but it should then happen after you fire as you regain control. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1416	Posted - 2014.06.23 08:12:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. As a part time sniper the main change i would like to see is a way to reduce the movement sway while scoped. At the moment the only way to snipe is to camp, because any movement means you can't shoot. I'd much prefer to be running in mid range across the battlefield with a sniper, instead I'm pushed to the red line. Knowledge is power
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2327	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:19:00 - [65] - Quote I would just increase zoom level, play as sniper without a Thale really hurts my eyes. Rendering distance, range and false readings are another problem, basically when you use SR you are forced to camp, there should be a total rework of the sniping mechanic, something like a hold breath mechanic similar to BF. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:37:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. I used to snipe and I'd say that you should be very careful. Snipers are very high on the frustration ladder when it comes to encounters. If they are strong enough to constantly kill you, they quickly turn you off from the game. This can already be seen from Thale's encounters. It's no fun to be killed by a sniper whom you can't detect. Is it possible to reveal the sniper that killed you on the map? This would make sniper gameplay harder, justifying an increase in power and forcing them to always keep changing positions. It would make sniper gameplay far more engaging and actually lessen the current frustration. I might start sniping again at that point.
V1RONXSS AL0NE Inc. 12	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:00:00 - [67] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Egonz4 wrote: Snipers should be last thing to be buffed......the red line makes them op Sadly, I agree. I don't hate snipers or their rifles...but i do hate the redline and the people sit inside of it. Low risk, high reward. If the sniper can reach you/kill than you can do the same to the sniper. I ilke snipe from time to time with my TAR/Ishukone, and i also getting contrsniped by some millitia sniper rifles, dont see any problem here, so if you fail at sniping, live with it. The Redline itsself is not a problem but i can agree its can be adjusted on some maps.
Yeeeuuuupppp 363	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:14:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. What I would really want are some better sniping positions outside if the red line that you would have to fly up to hoping you weren't spotted. There were great vantage points but for some reason someone decided to make it so you can't stand on it or can't even get access to it.. (i.e. the spires that people ignore these days because they're meaningless) Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15586	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:31:00 - [69] - Quote Another highly serious problem with snipers is the fact their bullet trails are invisible so even if you do manage to not only survive or dodge the sniper you cannot fathom where he is exactly at most of the time. While this can be argued that other games get away with this most often those other games have 1. excessively limited number of sniping spots. 2. Kill cams, 3. Far better hit incoming indicators. 4. Better kill readouts. Also its been generally known that if the game doesn't draw the source of the shot it doesn't draw any weapon effects they use. Which is why there have been calls to reduce range in exchange for power. It would increase the risk and the reward for sniper players. There are other finer points that need addressing but for the most part the snipers are most of the time too weak and excessively difficult to get a follow up shot on even on moving targets regardless at distances due to the lack of acceleration on controllers making most aiming knee jerkingly bad but this is apparent an inherent nature of ps3 controller. I am not sure how bad the mice and keyboard folks have it though. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 283	Posted - 2014.06.23 11:07:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. I tried sniping on a charcter with 3mil SP's or less and all I can say is... in my opinion if you are a good shot and inventive with your positioning on the map you can do well. For anyone interested he is the result of an advanced caldari commando with a charge sniper and the character still has less than 3 mil SP's Video: http://youtu.be/7lTWQSuzzCM Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel


ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 1182	Posted - 2014.06.23 11:27:00 - [71] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: 1. Give snipers some sort of reticule for hipfire (even if it's bigger than the HMGs)--just give some idea of where my shot will go if I need to defend myself! def needs this, aiming randomly hoping to hit something when defending myself is just silly DUSTSearch DUSTBoard DUST Server Status

Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:15:00 - [72] - Quote Been sniping since Mordu's Private Trials in the early closed beta... As has been said by some, Sniper Rifle damage is mostly okay, except in PC matches. A lot of snipers wouldn't use the redzone if the weapon was better configured for closer ranges. Reducing the sway would fix this, but with sniper rifles being hitscan... getting rid of the sway would make them OP. Unless, a skilled coder at CCP can somehow write some decent, rudimentary projectile physics code... that Dust can handle, mind you... I don't see how the sniper rifle can get out of the corner it's in. Beforehand. CCP's "solution" to sniping, was to design maps that purposefully locked snipers out of the match, and prevent them from targeting hotspots and objectives, and that is what caused me to quit in the first place. The problem is the gun's physics. Not the people using it. Punishing people for being smart with a badly implemented weapon was a poor way to go about "balancing" the game. In any case, for being hitscan, the sniper rifle's damage is NOT unreasonable; But if proper physics could be implemented, then the sniper rifle would also be due a powerful damage buff that will make truly dedicated snipers shine, and discourage noobs from padding K/D. If we CAN'T get decent physics while Dust is on PS3, then we at least need the following: 1. Variable Zoom (can the PS3 handle this?) up to at least 8x. 2. No severe sway penalty doing slight movements while crouched. (My guy has a seizure with his aim, just adjusting his toe.) 3. Additional variants or racial variants. (Charge + Burst Laser Sniper Rifle?) 4. 10x damage bonus on headshots. (No more ******* surviving headshots from Thale's and Charge sniper rifles!)
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:21:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. Rattati. Metrics on public matches may be where you want it to be. But try to collect data from major PC battles. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that you will likely only find the Thale's with reasonable usage and kill rate. Nothing short of it is really going to hold against organized proto'd enemies. Snipers usually end up DELIBERATELY being relegated to objective camping, because they can hardly put down otherwise. If you don't have a Thale's or a Charge Sniper damage-modded out the ass, then you sir, are objective camping. That is the VERY same thing that CCP Remnant said he was trying to PREVENT when the newer maps were introduced. We got a conflict of interest here.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:27:00 - [74] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Another highly serious problem with snipers is the fact their bullet trails are invisible so even if you do manage to not only survive or dodge the sniper you cannot fathom where he is exactly at most of the time. While this can be argued that other games get away with this most often those other games have 1. excessively limited number of sniping spots. 2. Kill cams, 3. Far better hit incoming indicators. 4. Better kill readouts. Also its been generally known that if the game doesn't draw the source of the shot it doesn't draw any weapon effects they use. Which is why there have been calls to reduce range in exchange for power. It would increase the risk and the reward for sniper players. There are other finer points that need addressing but for the most part the snipers are most of the time too weak and excessively difficult to get a follow up shot on even on moving targets regardless at distances due to the lack of acceleration on controllers making most aiming knee jerkingly bad but this is apparent an inherent nature of ps3 controller. I am not sure how bad the mice and keyboard folks have it though. KB/M user here. It's the same with us. I can land follow-up shots just fine, so I don't have a problem in public matches. But PC is where the sniper rifle is really hurting. You can land round after round, and unless you are using heavily modded Thale's, you just are NOT being helpful. The Charge can put down, but the fire rate, makes it horrible at suppression. Organized enemies in proto, will laugh anything else off.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:36:00 - [75] - Quote Would it make sense to increase the price of proto SRs by an extreme degree and then also up the damage quite a bit? Make it so expensive that it's not worth using in pubs, but can be viable in PC. ADV and Basic could be kept balanced for pubs, while proto will be completely broken in terms of cost and power output. However, how insane would the price need to be to balance out the lack of risk? More expensive than an ADS? Wouldn't it be too expensive even for PC if it was in the multi-million range? Then again, if it isn't that expensive, the player will have the option of ruining dozens of pub matches before they get put down by a countersniper, which would allow them to still make a bit of a profit. And a powerful sniper in a pub is an extremely dangerous thing in terms of effects on gameplay. You'd need to increase the vehicle limit to 10 if you did that, because most pubbers wouldn't want to play infantry anymore.
Cpl Foster USMC The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1008	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:40:00 - [76] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Cpl Foster USMC wrote: +1 for your name... +100 for Chesty Puller +100 for Semper Fi +100 for Sniper Love stop by if you see me in the Redline area...I'll be cooking MRE's and shootin' redberries...... Whoa. The platoon on second deck in boot had a DI named Sgt Foster. That dude was a demon. Lol AMAZING drill instructor. What do you like about my name? My actual name, or alliance name? Let's get this reticule changed, for Chesty, and some all-around sniper love for Hathcock. Lol 'IrishWebster' makes me think you are a 3 foot Irish guy...lol. My Senior Drill Instructor walked thru the door and we all went pale...it was Steven King in a DI hat...! we knew we were screwed.. our 3rd Hat was DI Baker aka 'Batman' after he showed us how the obstacle course was supposed to be run...Amazing... our 2nd Hat was replaced after he brought a baby alligator in the barracks one night after a few drinks and a trip to the swamp... his replacement was called up off vacation to fill in and he made us pay for it every day..... oh and it was summer...May-Aug summer...at P.I......in the summer.... stop complaining about Valid Tactics and kill those bastards....you bastards
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 153	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:00:00 - [77] - Quote Give snipers ammo variants that they can equip in the equipment slot. Such as chaff rounds that disable electronics, beacons that enable radar and explosives with a delayed charge.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 155	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:00:00 - [78] - Quote I think all the sniper rifles should have a 'hollow dot aiming reticle' where the dot is slightly larger but is 'hollow' in the center, meaning it has not been filled up in the center. (100% see through at the center of the dot) All sniper rifles should have there zoom increased, having a variable zoom would be 'icing on the cake' (variable zoom means 2 or 3 zoom options that I can cycle through at the push of a button) Increase the headshot damage multiplier of all regular sniper variants until all suits are killed in 1 headshot shot, but the toughest heavies take 2 headshots to die from a regular sniper variant (tactical variants of snipers should take 3 head shots to kill a heavy). A headshot to a heavy with 1500 total hp should take roughly 950 hp from an advanced regular sniper (without damage mods). Roughly 800 hp from a standard regular sniper. Charge snipers should take 2 headshots to kill a heavy as well. 1 headshot should be roughly 1100 damage without damage mods. Add a small charge time to the thale sniper rifle.
voidfaction Void of Faction 279	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:02:00 - [79] - Quote snipers should have range reduced to 300m to pull them out of redline. You did it to rail tanks why not snipers. With reduced range buff the head shot dmg. As long as snipers are a redline combat class in fat suits then I don't think they deserve a buff of any kind. for every 100 eHP over 200 increase scope sway by 10%
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2168	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:29:00 - [80] - Quote @ Rattati Would recommend first trying an increase to headshot multiplier. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2755	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:08:00 - [81] - Quote Unfortunately, the main problem with snipers is the maps. They have almost no perches outside of the redline on many maps, and there's not enough ladders to accommodate them either unless you have derpships. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Jake Diesel Legion-10 171	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:41:00 - [82] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Lol. If I could purchase all the Thales in Dust in an alt account, I would biomass that clone sending every existing Thales to oblivion. It's the most abused officer weapon in Dust due to being "safe to use".
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 258	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:12:00 - [83] - Quote Look, sniper rifles do not need to be made to be very good in this game currently, if they are made to be able to hit over 300m or futher consistently and have strong power you will ruin the entire game. Let me list why. 1. Sniper rifles have no falloff damage. 2. With a charge sniper rifle or thale's people can get upwards of 20 kills without ever having to leave the red zone. 3. Dust provides a red zone to protect snipers and others that no other game really provides this amount of protection. 4. If sniper rifles are made better people will start using mouse and keyboard with Dust in order to get excessively long range kills, some already do. (With a mouse I can get sniper rifle kills that would make your mouth drop, I play on a controller currently but I can switch over) 5. It can be hard to hunt down snipers or they can be in spots where they can not be hit by nearly 80% of the weapons in the game. If you make sniper rifles to good they will become the FOTM as most people already do not want to enter the battlefield unless they have to due to vehicles. Currently I've actually had domination matches where the enemy team did not even enter the battlefield and took it upon them selves to have everyone sniping with either forge guns, sniper rifles, or rail tanks.
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 258	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:23:00 - [84] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: I think all the sniper rifles should have a 'hollow dot aiming reticle' where the dot is slightly larger but is 'hollow' in the center, meaning it has not been filled up in the center. (100% see through at the center of the dot) All sniper rifles should have there zoom increased, having a variable zoom would be 'icing on the cake' (variable zoom means 2 or 3 zoom options that I can cycle through at the push of a button) Increase the headshot damage multiplier of all regular sniper variants until all suits are killed in 1 headshot shot, but the toughest heavies take 2 headshots to die from a regular sniper variant (tactical variants of snipers should take 3 head shots to kill a heavy). A headshot to a heavy with 1500 total hp should take roughly 950 hp from an advanced regular sniper (without damage mods). Roughly 800 hp from a standard regular sniper. Charge snipers should take 2 headshots to kill a heavy as well. 1 headshot should be roughly 1100 damage without damage mods. Add a small charge time to the thale sniper rifle. hahaha no, you want a sniper rifle to not only get increased zoom but the power to 2 shot a heavy. Would you also like to have a hover pack and be able to have automatic weapon fire upon your stick of the almighty, oh and should we give you free unlimited cloaking as well while we are on the topic of complete god modding? You're out of your mind, I would quit this game and never look back if this was implimented. You could literally control the entire map with a single Thale's sniper rifle from ontop of an MCC.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2580	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:25:00 - [85] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Rattati Would recommend first trying an increase to headshot multiplier. I agree, I doubt you'll be able to do anything complex to the sniper rifle, and with a weapon of this type skill should easily be the deciding factor for the weapon, it's hard as hell to hit head shots on moving targets in dust, and the biggest issue is the massive hp pool on a lot of the targets currently in the meta. so by increasing the head shot multiplier you give a method for SR's to over come the large EHP in the current method via perfect shooting. although I like many other have numerous ideas for improvements to the SR, this is the simplest change that could get the job done.
Forlorn Destrier 2564	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:31:00 - [86] - Quote I don't redline snipe, though I am sure I've done it without realizing once in a blue moon simply because I have no concept of where it is. Tt would be helpful to know when you are in your redline. Remember - there isn't a way to know for sure if you are. There should be a yellow zone to at least notify you where you are. CCP Rattatatttaaatttaatttttii - can this be implemented easily?
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2581	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:43:00 - [87] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: I don't redline snipe, though I am sure I've done it without realizing once in a blue moon simply because I have no concept of where it is. Tt would be helpful to know when you are in your redline. Remember - there isn't a way to know for sure if you are. There should be a yellow zone to at least notify you where you are. CCP Rattatatttaaatttaatttttii - can this be implemented easily? i'd love a sniper rifle capable of being of good use inside the red line I did this in the past but one of the requirements is the sniper rifle needs to be capable of doing drastic damage in a single shot, so you can finish off the targets with your side arm. in it's current form this just not really possible, this was honestly my favorite time for sniping since dust was created, and was very enjoyable. sadly it was just as viable to snipe from the the red line as it was to snipe from the ground, with the exception that you never had to worry about being counter sniped, but you did have to worry about being removed by ground units. personally I'd love to see a sniper rifle added that would be focused on ground sniping.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 958	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:10:00 - [88] - Quote Jathniel wrote: 4. 10x damage bonus on headshots. (No more ******* surviving headshots from Thale's and Charge sniper rifles! Heck no more surviving headshots from sniper rifles at all! Even non-snipers don't fuss about getting headshotted. Sometimes you just get got.) As long as the best way to snipe is being balls deep in the redline with pretty much no risk, no. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:23:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... I'll give you something concrete. Rendering graphics at a distance is worse in your game than it was in the late 90s when games practically invented it. Which is not something to be proud of. Also, Assault Dropships are the bane of a sniper's existence.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 225	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:43:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. It seems that the general consensus is that the majority of us would like the hollow reticule, and that quite a few still would like things like increased damage with lessened range (range being a temporary fix to redline abuse issues), and increasing headshot multipliers proportionate to decreases in distance to target. A few want a hip-fire reticule (I would like to strongly voice my opinion AGAINST this idea, for reasons I've stated already and can readily expound upon), a bullet trail showing where the round came from (I actually love this idea- maybe it stays around for 3 seconds so you can get a decent idea of where the sniper is hiding?) and enemy tagging (wonderful idea- maybe an added module to give the ability? A sniper-niche item). Variable zoom is something that's been mentioned often, alternatively we'd like a scope with a higher level of zoom. The current one is embarrassing. Some sort of mechanic to overcome the game's tendency not to render things at a certain distance to save processing power for other portions of the game, so that when you look through a sniper scope, it treats the zoom level like the actual distance you are from the target. To clarify: you're 300 meters away from a target, but the game won't render a character model because he's too far away. scope in- magnification at 4X means he'll effectively appear to be about 70-80 meters away, hence the game renders him as if were actually only that far. Rendering is a HUGE issue. This is probably the biggest problem I have with sniping, as it stands. The second biggest issue is probably the reticule. Rattati, it's awesome that you took the time to answer some joe ******* like me. I don't know if you know what it means to the community to have someone, especially in a position such as yours, constantly interfacing directly with players, whether it's to address concerns or just to weigh in on some trivial matter. It means a lot. Thank you.

IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 225	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:50:00 - [91] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: Everything Dies wrote: 1. Give snipers some sort of reticule for hipfire (even if it's bigger than the HMGs)--just give some idea of where my shot will go if I need to defend myself! def needs this, aiming randomly hoping to hit something when defending myself is just silly I'm sorry dude, but no. That's not what a sniper rifle is for. If you want to fight close up, get a sidearm, or pay attention/snipe with a partner to guard you. If you're good enough to warrant it, someone will be glad to play as a team. Sniper rifles are long distance weapons. Could you imagine trying to fire a frickin .50 cal Barret from the hip? You'd rip your bloody arms off. Sci-Fi or no, that's just ridiculous, and so completely unbalanced, it's just laughable. We'd have a**holes just running around cities hip firing the enemy team into frickin oblivion.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 225	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:56:00 - [92] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increase the headshot damage multiplier of all regular sniper variants until all suits are killed in 1 headshot shot, but the toughest heavies take 2 headshots to die from a regular sniper variant (tactical variants of snipers should take 3 head shots to kill a heavy). A headshot to a heavy with 1500 total hp should take roughly 950 hp from an advanced regular sniper (without damage mods). Roughly 800 hp from a standard regular sniper. Charge snipers should take 2 headshots to kill a heavy as well. 1 headshot should be roughly 1100 damage without damage mods. Add a small charge time to the thale sniper rifle. I think that this is just asking for easy mode. I don't WANT easy mode. I still want sniping to remain a highly skilled niche that not everyone can do. This isn't Call of Duty, gents. Not everyone can go grab a sniper rifle, lay down beneath the bulldozer and pop every idiot who sprints around the corner. I would like to give the sniper better tools to reach out and touch someone, but it definitely needs to stay a NICHE weapon; NOT something for use by every dude who is scared to lose a suit down in the field. Toward the topic of being a niche weapon, I think that's why the weapon hasn't seen much change, despite the different weapons being released, and all the buffs and bug fixes etc. The rifle seems as if it's only regularly used by such a small group of people that are already comfortable with it, because (and I'm included) we've been told that it isn't going to be changed. I once emailed support to ask for an investment of SP to be returned because of how bugged out rendering is for snipers. I was obviously turned down, and I can understand why, but... it's how I prefer to play. I LIKE sniping, more than I do running assault, and in a sandbox type of universe, well... I'd really like sniping to be fun, not a chore.
The Eristic Dust 90210 483	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:20:00 - [93] - Quote Enemy tagging would be brilliant. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 228	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:37:00 - [94] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Enemy tagging would be brilliant. Totally agree. Like I said, maybe we could get a module to do it? Sort of like a sniper niche item?
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 19	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:27:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all.. Yup...that would be because with all the buffs to armour, shields, TTK and such the sniper rifle as a weapons class has been nerfed. of course any serious discussion on snipers as a class or buffs to the weapons are quickly drown out by the redline trolls and the usual outpouring of sniper hate. there have been a number of posts since 1.8 dropped asking for CCP to look at this issue....this is the first thread that a DEV has actually responded to. and as expected it was a negative response. "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
fragmentedhackslash Last VenDetta. 304	Posted - 2014.06.24 05:22:00 - [96] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2224900#post2224900 Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
fragmentedhackslash Last VenDetta. 304	Posted - 2014.06.24 05:24:00 - [97] - Quote I am not even going to comment on this issue. I have made a very balanced case for several changes to the mechanics of the sniper roll over the last 12 months and been completely ignored, not going to even bother again, even though it will affect negativly the primary role of my character and the effectivness I have in field. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1492	Posted - 2014.06.24 07:08:00 - [98] - Quote Jathniel wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. Rattati. Metrics on public matches may be where you want it to be. But try to collect data from major PC battles. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that you will likely only find the Thale's with reasonable usage and kill rate. Nothing short of it is really going to hold against organized proto'd enemies. Snipers usually end up DELIBERATELY being relegated to objective camping, because they can hardly put down otherwise. If you don't have a Thale's or a Charge Sniper damage-modded out the ass, then you sir, are objective camping. That is the VERY same thing that CCP Remnant said he was trying to PREVENT when the newer maps were introduced. We got a conflict of interest here. There are no snipers in current pc matces. That is what the metrics will show. Fun > Realism
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1902	Posted - 2014.06.24 08:01:00 - [99] - Quote Can we just give it a optimal range of 400m, and a Effective of 590, with absolute being 599? Make the headshot bonus250%, instead of 175%. If possible, please change the reticule to a small circle with a + with no crosssectionin the middle. \| --- --- \| Kinda like that? Dammit it won't read right >.< General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 230	Posted - 2014.06.24 14:49:00 - [100] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: [quote=Jathniel] There are no snipers in current pc matces. That is what the metrics will show. I'm inclined to agree. I obviously don't have the access to the data that Devs have, but I've seen it before I left for Afghan. Snipers are uncommon in PC, because their role is rarely critical. They can't do enough to justify removing a body from the frontline assault.

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 112	Posted - 2014.06.24 17:32:00 - [101] - Quote Wow, Rattati, earlier I posted I would be genuinely happy if a dev posted on this thread at all... I meant it. thank you for that. just a few points 1.yes snipers are at the moment in a good place for pub matches, but only if you are using a prototype rifle with damage mods. more basic rifles will not be getting good scores and are only viable for counter sniping. 2.I have 26 mill sp and the large majority of it is in sniping, when I decided what to go proto in i based the decision on what i am good at and what I enjoy doing, I didn't pick the role in order to be rendered useless in battles for my corp. Sniping is not the only thing I do, I am also a caldari sentinel and I do fairly well with it, but I prefer to snipe in fps games. I actually enjoy the gameplay of being a sniper, I don't care about kdr and it's not a matter of gun game. 3.About balancing sniper rifles, just a thought here not a suggestion but there are no positions where a sniper can kill people from without being at risk of being killed, ok it means a change of plan to be dealt with but it is possible. .if a sniper was a real threat on the battlefield due to having a dangerous weapon people would be less likely to react to them with complacency, in other words a sniper would have to move regularly because players will actively seek them out. on to suggestions (please bear in mind that im also thinking about p.c battles 1.I think that a sniper rifle needs a boost to the headshot multiplier at the moment it's not enough. I would ideally suggest that yes one headshot should kill the majority of dropsuits at proto level. (don't forget this is the maximum damage available) (I understand that people are not going to agree.. be patient.) 2.the reticule for the sniper rifles, most people on here say they want this, I personally haven't noticed a problem but I do think this sounds much better than the current one, and it wouldn't increase damage. 3. tagging enemies or at the very least vehicles, I think that this would be a great thing for snipers to start being useful again and it would also allow friendly snipers to highlight enemy ones that they cant kill. these are the suggestions put forward by the snipers here. IF nobody wants to agree to the first one, a standby suggestion: . decrease the amount of time the charge rifle takes to charge and make the ammo skill give us 1 extra bullet (preferably per clip) per level it really should of been changed a long time ago anyway. if the snipers aren't supposed to kill by oneshots that's fine but can you at least make it so that multiple shots are possible? with a reticule change and an increase in ammo with quicker firing on the high damage rifle the sniper rifles should become more able to cope including in p.c But ONLY in the hands of skilled people who can get headshots. body shots will continue to be laughable and just waste ammo but people who can headshot will be able to do so more than once before the target calmly walks away. for the other variants the increase in ammo per clip should be enough, if not then we could look into headshot damage. in order to balance I would suggest a large increase in isk for proto rifles, if we can't effect the red line and people are not happy with the current level of risk then increase the cost instead.(although I would like to know what high 'reward' we are supposed to be getting.) and this would make people more inclined to use advanced sniper rifles in pub matches as most people do with other weapons now.
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 751	Posted - 2014.06.24 18:14:00 - [102] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparently, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. I beg you with all that I have to not touch the sniper rifles. They can already one shot scouts when shot in the foot! They drop many a heavy suit with that Thale. They are in a perfectly fine spot. We don't need any other OP weapon with a one shot kill that can sit in an area that is completely unreachable or can cover an objective without any way to stop it. You should focus on reducing the complete open areas in the game. I once read DUST is supposed to be a tactical shooter yet I can hardly find cover on most maps to hide behind. When I duck I get head shot because my body doesn't fully go into cover, which takes away from the tactical part. You're probably asking why I'm bringing this up in a sniper thread, it's because snipers can shoot inside objectives they can shoot just about anywhere. Sometimes in battle I just want to hide behind something for a moment to regenerate, to drop a strike, to.. do something that requires me to not be moving constantly and we don't have that in DUST at the moment. Snipers can attack every single area of a map (other than 2 maps with an inside objective). Anyway, my thoughts. Newb
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 233	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:44:00 - [103] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparently, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. I beg you with all that I have to not touch the sniper rifles. They can already one shot scouts when shot in the foot! They drop many a heavy suit with that Thale. They are in a perfectly fine spot. We don't need any other OP weapon with a one shot kill that can sit in an area that is completely unreachable or can cover an objective without any way to stop it. You should focus on reducing the complete open areas in the game. I once read DUST is supposed to be a tactical shooter yet I can hardly find cover on most maps to hide behind. When I duck I get head shot because my body doesn't fully go into cover, which takes away from the tactical part. You're probably asking why I'm bringing this up in a sniper thread, it's because snipers can shoot inside objectives they can shoot just about anywhere. Sometimes in battle I just want to hide behind something for a moment to regenerate, to drop a strike, to.. do something that requires me to not be moving constantly and we don't have that in DUST at the moment. Snipers can attack every single area of a map (other than 2 maps with an inside objective). Anyway, my thoughts. We must have been playing a VASTLY different game for the last year and some odd months. In what world are snipers this all-powerful, constant menace who lurk over every hiding place and objective in pubs or PC? Even Rattati himself said that the sniper rifle is used by a very small subset of players, and the metrics haves really changed at all across all of the updates. I know from personal experience that sniper rifles and GOOD snipers are a damn rarity, let alone a constant menace to the fun of the game such as you claim. Please, if you can prove these statements, continue, but if not... quiet down. Some of us really do enjoy playing a sniper role, and there just isn't a good way to do it in DUST. Sniping, at the moment, is weak at best. You've got to be a real ace, and from what I've seen so far, you've got to be using a mouse and keyboard to be truly effective at it. Even then... I've yet to see any snipers making a real impact on the outcome of a game. Sorry gents. We really need some sort of niche, and right now... we've not got one.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1393	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:58:00 - [104] - Quote Make snipers a one hit kill to the body on all but sentinels. Give them one round per magazine, with 3 reserve, and make them eat up a lot of nanites. Tie scope sway to suit size. Lights have the least sway, heavy suits the most, and mediums in between. Commandos would count as medium suits for the purposes of determining scope sway. Heavy suits should always have scope sway. This gives snipers the one hit kills that they should have, while balancing them with low ammo that would need constant replacement of hives to sustain, and most of all, a dedicated sniper suit would be running either a medium or a light suit, meaning they are more easily killed. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:24:00 - [105] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: I think all the sniper rifles should have a 'hollow dot aiming reticle' where the dot is slightly larger but is 'hollow' in the center, meaning it has not been filled up in the center. (100% see through at the center of the dot) All sniper rifles should have there zoom increased, having a variable zoom would be 'icing on the cake' (variable zoom means 2 or 3 zoom options that I can cycle through at the push of a button) Increase the headshot damage multiplier of all regular sniper variants until all suits are killed in 1 headshot shot, but the toughest heavies take 2 headshots to die from a regular sniper variant (tactical variants of snipers should take 3 head shots to kill a heavy). A headshot to a heavy with 1500 total hp should take roughly 950 hp from an advanced regular sniper (without damage mods). Roughly 800 hp from a standard regular sniper. Charge snipers should take 2 headshots to kill a heavy as well. 1 headshot should be roughly 1100 damage without damage mods. Add a small charge time to the thale sniper rifle. hahaha no, you want a sniper rifle to not only get increased zoom but the power to 2 shot a heavy. Would you also like to have a hover pack and be able to have automatic weapon fire upon your stick of the almighty, oh and should we give you free unlimited cloaking as well while we are on the topic of complete god modding? You're out of your mind, I would quit this game and never look back if this was implimented. You could literally control the entire map with a single Thale's sniper rifle from ontop of an MCC. Yeah, speaking as a heavy, lolfukno to all of this. I will admit a bias to freaking hating snipers, but admittedly, they are not as big a problem as they used to be, like back in the days of old Manus Peak, so I wouldn't be opposed to them getting a little love, but absolutely no update that rewards redline sniping. I really like the idea of reducing the effective range of the sniper rifle to keep snipers out the redline, combined with a increase in DPS to reward how close the sniper is to his target. That kind of sniper playstyle, I can respect. I'll still probably hate it, but I respect it. Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 15	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:32:00 - [106] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Snipers have the least amount of risk, hence their reward should be very low. Increase their risk by forcing them out of the redline and making weapon fire show them on the minimap (So they have to displace after taking shots), then we can talk. (Do that to all weapons in general, not just snipers) ^^ yep.
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 15	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:34:00 - [107] - Quote I would be happy with thales having a random chance (1 in 3) of misfiring, immediately killing the operator.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 317	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:50:00 - [108] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. I do agree that snipers should be feared by heavies, since they dont fear much considereding they shred anything with proper repair tool...
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 605	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:54:00 - [109] - Quote Fix for snipers: Reduce range to 300-400 meters, buff all damage by 25%, GIVE IT A BETTER RETICLE(optional), make headshot multiplier 300%. Also, don't allow KBM sniping, its wayyyy too easy, esp. compared to sniping with a controller Easy, concrete (except for the reticle), and a good solid fix "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 263	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:47:00 - [110] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Fix for snipers: Reduce range to 300-400 meters, buff all damage by 25%, GIVE IT A BETTER RETICLE(optional), make headshot multiplier 300%. Also, don't allow KBM sniping, its wayyyy too easy, esp. compared to sniping with a controller Easy, concrete (except for the reticle), and a good solid fix No for a few reasons 1. You can't possibly program in which weapons can be used by mouse and which by controller. You are also in essence beta testing Legion, so mouse controlls are vital. 2. A flat out buff on damage would make the Thale's rifle godly in all modes. 3. That isn't a range reduction for more then half of the sniper rifles if not all of them. Now if you wanted to make this work here's what you would ask for. 1. Rework the numbers on sniper rifles to make them competitive, similar to how rifles were currently reworked. 2. The headshot multiplier which you had suggested is a good start to aiding the sniper rifle. 3. If damage is to increase drastically, reduce range drastically so that snipers can not operate so effectively in the red zone.

Atiim NoGameNoLife 9806	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:53:00 - [111] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Nothing does. 99% of people who snipe in DUST tend to be 250-400 meters in their spawn. Source? I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9806	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:55:00 - [112] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Fix for snipers: Reduce range to 300-400 meters, buff all damage by 25%, GIVE IT A BETTER RETICLE(optional), make headshot multiplier 300%. Also, don't allow KBM sniping, its wayyyy too easy, esp. compared to sniping with a controller Easy, concrete (except for the reticle), and a good solid fix Then can we make it to where you can't use DS3 with a rifle? I mean it's wayyyy to easy, especially compared to sniping with KB/M. I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1063	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:00:00 - [113] - Quote giving snipers good hip fire would make it like halo and the halo sniper would be insanely OP in this game. it would be 50 cal. no scope head shot 514 In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 117	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:08:00 - [114] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: giving snipers good hip fire would make it like halo and the halo sniper would be insanely OP in this game. it would be 50 cal. no scope head shot 514 Don't want the hipfire, but I'd LOVE that reticule what i think of when charging fg

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3140	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:09:00 - [115] - Quote Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Yeeeuuuupppp 378	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:17:00 - [116] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. No good vantage points outside of red line? No new mountains or buildings? :( but I like the idea of rewarding snipers that are capable of getting consistent head shots Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 237	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:38:00 - [117] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. First, i just wanna brag that you liked a post of mine. I screen-shotted that notification to talk smack to some of my corp mates (anti-sniper types, Lol). Anyway, yes. All of this. Emphasis on the reticule. PLEASE. I'll pay the dev who does it out of my own pocket. With beer. The beer will not have been in my pocket. Probably. Also, don't forget the tagging feature. If it's possible, that would give us a direct means by which to funnel intel to our squads- we could maybe tie it in to a scanner functionality? We tag people, and it shows up on squad mates' screens if they're directly in line of sight, or on the mini map if they're also scanned. A thought for Legion, perhaps. Maybe just the LoS option for DUST. It'd be a gimme tie in for WP's too, maybe something small like 15 WP per kill that we've tagged. I love the reduced range idea to bring people out of the redline, as long as the reduced range is still outside the effective and optimal ranges of the assault rifle class, so as to differentiate between roles of the rifles. Maybe an effective range of around 200-280 meters, with a huge damage falloff occurring at 350 meters or so to give it a good range profile. I'm not sure what the numbers are currently, so I'm just spit balling. Real life physics support the idea, in any case. Bullets lose stability over long range flight and begin to wobble, losing most of their forward momentum and thus stopping power. Enough of me ranting. You got the gist just fine. THANK you for listening. Maybe when I get home from this dusty, dry, dreary country, I can return to sniping with a smile. Thanks for the consideration, Rattati. Much appreciated.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 398	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:14:00 - [118] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Also, don't forget the tagging feature. If it's possible, that would give us a direct means by which to funnel intel to our squads- we could maybe tie it in to a scanner functionality? We tag people, and it shows up on squad mates' screens if they're directly in line of sight, or on the mini map if they're also scanned. A thought for Legion, perhaps. Maybe just the LoS option for DUST. It'd be a gimme tie in for WP's too, maybe something small like 15 WP per kill that we've tagged. I like this. I think part of the reason we don't have the 'overwatch' sniper role anymore is due to scanners, but I always thought it was cool to have a good sniper on your team providing intel for the rest of the squad. Promotes team play, gives snipers an additional valuable role in the squad, instead of just lone wolfs looking for kills. Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 239	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:21:00 - [119] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Also, don't forget the tagging feature. If it's possible, that would give us a direct means by which to funnel intel to our squads- we could maybe tie it in to a scanner functionality? We tag people, and it shows up on squad mates' screens if they're directly in line of sight, or on the mini map if they're also scanned. A thought for Legion, perhaps. Maybe just the LoS option for DUST. It'd be a gimme tie in for WP's too, maybe something small like 15 WP per kill that we've tagged. I like this. I think part of the reason we don't have the 'overwatch' sniper role anymore is due to scanners, but I always thought it was cool to have a good sniper on your team providing intel for the rest of the squad. Promotes team play, gives snipers an additional valuable role in the squad, instead of just lone wolfs looking for kills. I forgot to mention; If the player that got tagged is also scanned, the tag would be seen through objects, just like you can see the tags for all of the null cannons no mater where you are or what's between you and the objective. A small, unobtrusive tag, like a tiny little square speech bubble looking thing with a point on the bottom, pointing to the center of the avatar's head. Just an idea. If the player isn't scanned AND tagged, the tag only pops up above their head if some portion of them is directly in line of sight, making them easier to spot.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 882	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:26:00 - [120] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: I love the reduced range idea to bring people out of the redline, as long as the reduced range is still outside the effective and optimal ranges of the assault rifle class, so as to differentiate between roles of the rifles. Maybe an effective range of around 200-280 meters, with a huge damage falloff occurring at 350 meters or so to give it a good range profile. I'm not sure what the numbers are currently, so I'm just spit balling. Real life physics support the idea, in any case. Bullets lose stability over long range flight and begin to wobble, losing most of their forward momentum and thus stopping power. Let's tweak this idea. 1. Increase headshot multiplier from the current 1.95x to 2.5x (90/110% body shot, 175/215% old headshot -> 225/275% new headshot) 2. Add falloff damage to sniper rifles so it doesn't have 599m optimal, but instead effective range of, say, 200m + 200m effective (past that, damage reduction of 70% like all other weapons outside effective range). This gives wiggle room to adjust the ability to adjust range based on tier and sub-type of weapons. 3. (optional) falloff damage reduction is ignored for head shots, so you'll always do a crit hit at all ranges when you head shot someone. Dust/Eve transfers

Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 20	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:11:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. reduce range? snipers work from a distance. if anything snipers need longer range, but I suppose that you think a good range would be 300m rather than the current 600m. fewer shots per clip? right now the protos only have 5 shots or 3 shots per clip. Have you even equipped a sniper rifle? when it can take 7 shots to kill a heavy (if he will stay still that long) reducing the clip size is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen coming out of a DEV removing snipers from the redline? this is a game mechanic that has no place in a discussion on snipers....every player takes advantage of the redline from, spawning forge gunners to lav gunners to tankers to ADS. But If you want snipers out of the redline then give me a sniper rifle that will allow me to snipe into the redline from anywhere on the map and a scope that will resolve a player anywhere on the map. make the redline more unsafe. Most of the "snipers" inputting feedback here are not snipers but sniper haters (anyone who asks for a clip reduction or range reduction is not a sniper). I would suggest that you create a sniper and actually play the role (walk a few 100k in a sniper's boots) before you come down from your perch and pronounce how you know how to make sniper weapons better. Hell I'll even let you cheat and create a character and just give them the skill points... "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 398	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:33:00 - [122] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Also, don't forget the tagging feature. If it's possible, that would give us a direct means by which to funnel intel to our squads- we could maybe tie it in to a scanner functionality? We tag people, and it shows up on squad mates' screens if they're directly in line of sight, or on the mini map if they're also scanned. A thought for Legion, perhaps. Maybe just the LoS option for DUST. It'd be a gimme tie in for WP's too, maybe something small like 15 WP per kill that we've tagged. I like this. I think part of the reason we don't have the 'overwatch' sniper role anymore is due to scanners, but I always thought it was cool to have a good sniper on your team providing intel for the rest of the squad. Promotes team play, gives snipers an additional valuable role in the squad, instead of just lone wolfs looking for kills. I forgot to mention; If the player that got tagged is also scanned, the tag would be seen through objects, just like you can see the tags for all of the null cannons no mater where you are or what's between you and the objective. A small, unobtrusive tag, like a tiny little square speech bubble looking thing with a point on the bottom, pointing to the center of the avatar's head. Just an idea. If the player isn't scanned AND tagged, the tag only pops up above their head if some portion of them is directly in line of sight, making them easier to spot. I'm kinda with you. I like the idea of it working similar to a regular scanner -- a very long range, but extremely narrow field of view scan tool, and by narrow I mean the width of the sniper scope. It would have a decent cooldown time to prevent abuse, and targets would stay lite for perhaps a longer period like 30 to 60 seconds. This way, the squad lead could have time to set an attack order if he desired. I would grant more WP, something like +25/+35 if a lit target is destroyed. If we combined this with a reduction in effective range of the sniper, snipers could be long-range lookouts for their squad, and still get WP for helping out. I think the ability to scan and also kill the target might be a bit OP, though. I like the idea of a trade-off: if you want to stay sniper from the redline, you can light the enemy up for your squad, but be too far away to do much damage; however, the closer you are, the more damage you do, but the scanner isn't as useful because of it's narrow field of view. Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 56	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:38:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. +1 Just don't go CoD or HALO style sniping, PLEASE!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15605	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:07:00 - [124] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce range, increase headshot multiplier, increase damage on some (not thales), make other variants than charged/thales useful, new reticule (don't know how easy that will be). Reward good snipers that get consistent headshots Bring snipers out of the redline Increase their effective dps so they may be PC viable I also liked the idea of fewer shots in the clip and faster reload to come with the higher damage profile. reduce range? snipers work from a distance. if anything snipers need longer range, but I suppose that you think a good range would be 300m rather than the current 600m. fewer shots per clip? right now the protos only have 5 shots or 3 shots per clip. Have you even equipped a sniper rifle? when it can take 7 shots to kill a heavy (if he will stay still that long) reducing the clip size is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen coming out of a DEV removing snipers from the redline? this is a game mechanic that has no place in a discussion on snipers....every player takes advantage of the redline from, spawning forge gunners to lav gunners to tankers to ADS. But If you want snipers out of the redline then give me a sniper rifle that will allow me to snipe into the redline from anywhere on the map and a scope that will resolve a player anywhere on the map. make the redline more unsafe. Most of the "snipers" inputting feedback here are not snipers but sniper haters (anyone who asks for a clip reduction or range reduction is not a sniper). I would suggest that you create a sniper and actually play the role (walk a few 100k in a sniper's boots) before you come down from your perch and pronounce how you know how to make sniper weapons better. Hell I'll even let you cheat and create a character and just give them the skill points... Most of the complaints are from Planetary Conquest players who had to quit sniping because of how non contributive it was. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 243	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:59:00 - [125] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: reduce range? snipers work from a distance. if anything snipers need longer range, but I suppose that you think a good range would be 300m rather than the current 600m. fewer shots per clip? right now the protos only have 5 shots or 3 shots per clip. Have you even equipped a sniper rifle? when it can take 7 shots to kill a heavy (if he will stay still that long) reducing the clip size is possibly the stupidest thing I've seen coming out of a DEV removing snipers from the redline? this is a game mechanic that has no place in a discussion on snipers....every player takes advantage of the redline from, spawning forge gunners to lav gunners to tankers to ADS. But If you want snipers out of the redline then give me a sniper rifle that will allow me to snipe into the redline from anywhere on the map and a scope that will resolve a player anywhere on the map. make the redline more unsafe. Most of the "snipers" inputting feedback here are not snipers but sniper haters (anyone who asks for a clip reduction or range reduction is not a sniper). I would suggest that you create a sniper and actually play the role (walk a few 100k in a sniper's boots) before you come down from your perch and pronounce how you know how to make sniper weapons better. Hell I'll even let you cheat and create a character and just give them the skill points... I think you're coming off a bit strong. Reduced range is a necessary balance if we're to get the damage buff we need. We'll still have AWESOME range- 300 meters is WELL past the effective of any assault rifle. Smaller clip size I don't particularly like, but I definitely agree with the premise- if they give us a rifle that can two-shot a heavy (with well placed head shots, that is), it should only have a max of 2-3 shots in the magazine. I'm sorry, but kill and reload is a rest balance. If you can kill-kill-kill-reload, which is what it'd be with current mag size, we'd be the most overpowered death machines in the game. In any case, you are not the end-all be-all of snipers, and don't get to define the class based on some arbitrary idea in your head of what a sniper should be. Snipers need to gtfo of the redline, and we need mrs power. We don't need 600 meters of range- the game won't even render that frickin far, homie. Neither will the scopes we have right now allow us to SEE that damn far. Don't say ridiculous things just because you feel strongly about a subject. Come in cool, respectful, and level headed. If you can't do that, no one will listen to you.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:11:00 - [126] - Quote IrishWebster wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Are you being serious? The ishukone is awesome. It has a great RoF, and stacking damage mods makes it easy. You shouldn't be whining about proficiency though. Lvl 3 isn't lvl 5, after all. Skill up to max before you ask for more damage or officer rifles. We snipers don't need an "easy button," I'd just like to see some more friendly implementation to make our niche more viable. Id like to see a sniper ever be useful. Most worthless class here. I dont even let snipers stay in my squad. And its all because you have that redline to hide in. Thales is a ohk on many suits, combine that with position in the redline that makes them unkillable, if not unfindable, and too much of a buff will make them a huge pain in the pleasure of this game. I'm sorry you feel your class is underserved but we definitely do not need snipers too powerful in this game. Snipers have the potentional to ruin a shooter, simply because of their popularity they restrict movement, make people less inclined to run around. And at its worst it becomes MW3 and BO2, I liked COD before quick scoping and no scoping became the fit of the game.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 112	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:44:00 - [127] - Quote Okay good so far, just a little more details when you can please I Completely agree that we shouldn't be 'safe' in a red line. my only problem is that range reduction will also effect verticality if you reduce range too far then what you will create won't really be a sniper rifle because you wouldn't be able to use vantage points meaning that overwatch playstyles wont be possible. Please don't forget that distance is a part of a snipers defence and a good view is a part of their attacks, Snipers go up high to get a better view to be able to provide intel and good target acquisition also we really don't stand too much of a chance when on the ground and facing off against heavies, (that said if we could get some extra high points and as somebody else said extra cover on maps that would be brilliant, extra cover would also help us shield tankers) as I think about the things stated by rattati I can see them working, but I would Really appreciate those 'balance nerfs' coming in small tweaks. as for the reduction to clip sizes goes sounds fair to me but could you also make the ammo skill play a part in upgrading the stats to our ammo counts, given the initial purpose of the reduction I would probably say to total ammo count, at the moment it really doesn't achieve anything and I would love to be able to put more skill points into sniping. (it also means that snipers with a high level of sp invested get more of an advantage thus providing extra reason to skill into it more) also please take into account the charge time on the charge rifle when reducing the clip size because: charge, aim, fire, charge, aim, fire, charge, aim, fire, reload, charge. if there is something that 4 shots to kill they really won't be possible to kill with it. maybe if you want to reduce to three shots then boost the damage enough that it works or possibly reduce the charge time? Thank you once again rattati, looking forward to being part of my corps p.c team as a sniper again.
IVIaster LUKE Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 549	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:08:00 - [128] - Quote Just give me an HM-90 SE please. Thanks o7 "We're in the spirit world now Billy...is that a chicken?" - Young Guns.
Kurai-Ronin Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:47:00 - [129] - Quote NO!!! Pro and Thale snipers are already one hit kill on most suits so no more improvements if they want to tweak it it should be a nerf TxT
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:52:00 - [130] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: IrishWebster wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ratati, can I haz more Thales? Hard to do point defense against proto sentinels and proto logistics with an ishukone with 2 damage mods and prof 3. Ps. Don't tell me to use the charge, because I hate it. Are you being serious? The ishukone is awesome. It has a great RoF, and stacking damage mods makes it easy. You shouldn't be whining about proficiency though. Lvl 3 isn't lvl 5, after all. Skill up to max before you ask for more damage or officer rifles. We snipers don't need an "easy button," I'd just like to see some more friendly implementation to make our niche more viable. Id like to see a sniper ever be useful. Most worthless class here. I dont even let snipers stay in my squad. And its all because you have that redline to hide in. Thales is a ohk on many suits, combine that with position in the redline that makes them unkillable, if not unfindable, and too much of a buff will make them a huge pain in the pleasure of this game. I'm sorry you feel your class is underserved but we definitely do not need snipers too powerful in this game. Snipers have the potentional to ruin a shooter, simply because of their popularity they restrict movement, make people less inclined to run around. And at its worst it becomes MW3 and BO2, I liked COD before quick scoping and no scoping became the fit of the game. Almost forgot, just some FYI for you snipers. Almost all of you talk too damn much, you people talk and give intel about every damn thing moving on the field the whole game. Your blocking out my music, and killimg my high. Ya we get it dudes are coming, pushing Alpha. Ok now stfu for 5 seconds and get a damn kill. Just chill, you dont have to tell us every thing. First point: We're trying to make it so that a class that already exists IS useful. You're arguing the same thing that we are- we're currently useless. Like a screen door on a submarine. If you want to complain that we're useless and then say that we NEED to remain useless... make up your mind. We're trying to implement changes that will prevent people from being "God mode" like the no-scoping no lifers of Call of Duty, while still keeping our favored play style fun. We don't whine that "those stupid assault suits always come kill us and ruin our fun sniping," so I say slay and slay alike. It's not your play style- got it. Assault isn't ours. We like the cold, calculating, surgical feel of taking some mother lover out at a couple hundred plus meters. Clearly sniping didn't kill ANY of those games, because they're still the most bought and sold franchises in the history of video games. Stop. Whining. Second point: You're literally the ONLY person I've ever heard complain about an overabundance of intel. You're clearly a solo player, loving the lone-wolf life. That isn't the kind of game that DUST 514 is set up to be. Perhaps your point of view is the estranged one here, and not ours? Anyway, please do not begrudge anyone their particular play style, especially based on something so flimsy as a personal opinion blatantly presented as false fact. Sorry dude. Looks like sniping will always and forever be a part of the world you play in. Final word to the wise: Duck, because I see you.

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2585	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:54:00 - [131] - Quote Kurai-Ronin wrote: NO!!! Pro and Thale snipers are already one hit kill on most suits so no more improvements if they want to tweak it it should be a nerf TxT scouts.. scouts are most suits now, but other suits do exist. that said i've known brick tanked scouts that can easily survive thale shots.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:56:00 - [132] - Quote Kurai-Ronin wrote: NO!!! Pro and Thale snipers are already one hit kill on most suits so no more improvements if they want to tweak it it should be a nerf TxT If you could read, the Dev himself has literally acknowledged IN THIS THREAD that the Thale rifle's damage profile doesn't need to be touched. However, out of curiosity... if the only thing about the proto sniper rifles' damage profile that's changing is the headshot multiplier, and the only kind of hit that can one hit kill "most suits" in the game is a head shot... why do you care if the damage profile is buffed? If they're ALREADY KILLING most suits in one hit, as you so claim (without any of that nasty factual stuff like, supporting evidence), what would actually CHANGE with a better headshot bonus? Nothing. That's what.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15610	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:57:00 - [133] - Quote even as a lone wolf I used to be an intel spewer until they took team comms away. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:58:00 - [134] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Kurai-Ronin wrote: NO!!! Pro and Thale snipers are already one hit kill on most suits so no more improvements if they want to tweak it it should be a nerf TxT scouts.. scouts are most suits now, but other suits do exist. that said i've known brick tanked scouts that can easily survive thale shots. You sir, get a high five, just for being reasonable. Crushing crybaby whiners one at a time, just so my people can finally get some much needed TLC.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 248	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:01:00 - [135] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: even as a lone wolf I used to be an intel spewer until they took team comms away. Me too, when the game first started. I love being useful- a sniper with a high powered rifle, a good vantage point and a scanner is a dangerous thing. Scanner keeps me close enough to the battle to see and be seen, good vantage point makes it hard to get to me (but not impossible. Screw the weak-sauce redline snipers), and my rifle lets me take out someone hacking an objective, or help decide a close fight and save a squad mate's otherwise doomed clone. There's a certain precision, a surgical employment that a sniper enjoys. No other niche gives us that high.
IVIaster LUKE Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 551	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:11:00 - [136] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: even as a lone wolf I used to be an intel spewer until they took team comms away. Missing old times. Today in honor of the Sniper. I'll put the Militia Sniper Rifle Blueprint in the kill feed. Counter-Sniper though. It's been awhile LOL "We're in the spirit world now Billy...is that a chicken?" - Young Guns.
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3231	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:38:00 - [137] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What needs to change is the way snipers work. There shouldn't be any scope sway before you ADS, but it should then happen after you fire as you regain control. The PS Move responds this way. As far as I've experienced Snipers with the PS Move do not have an initial artificial sway either from a standing or crouching position. You can even walk and keep a steady bead which is far more difficult on the DS3 (have not tested this with mouse and keyboard). http://youtu.be/tvP6Ft4bQH8 Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3231	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:43:00 - [138] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: Everything Dies wrote: 1. Give snipers some sort of reticule for hipfire (even if it's bigger than the HMGs)--just give some idea of where my shot will go if I need to defend myself! def needs this, aiming randomly hoping to hit something when defending myself is just silly Now I can peal off my no scope sticker decal. http://www.amazon.com/BGR-Mods-No-Scope-Decal/dp/B003F1M3Q0 Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Kratek Heshan United Colonial Empire Army Freek Alliance 64	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:11:00 - [139] - Quote what happen to the presicion rifle you promised us ?? remember last fanfest http://i.imgur.com/flTzL2v.png
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 115	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:46:00 - [140] - Quote @ Irish Webster +1 from me. "duck because I see you " classic.. +10 for the enjoying being a useful sniper post +100 for trying to keep the vantage point alive +1000 for the shared joy in the hunt. cold and clinical precision, a good description as for a sniper thread with a dev & cpm on here... Priceless. if it works out you may have earned immunity from my rifle

Mex-0 The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 25	Posted - 2014.06.25 22:36:00 - [141] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. In my book, drive by heavies are worse than redliners, because at least you can weave/butterfly to avoid being sniper bait. Just your average combat rifle wielding scout.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 252	Posted - 2014.06.26 02:51:00 - [142] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: @ Irish Webster +1 from me. "duck because I see you " classic.. +10 for the enjoying being a useful sniper post +100 for trying to keep the vantage point alive +1000 for the shared joy in the hunt. cold and clinical precision, a good description as for a sniper thread with a dev & cpm on here... Priceless. if it works out you may have earned immunity from my rifle Well that'll be awkward. "Hey squad leader, I can't shoot this guy. We... have an agreement." Lol Whatever. Sounds funny. I'm down.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 252	Posted - 2014.06.26 02:54:00 - [143] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: ChribbaX wrote: Everything Dies wrote: 1. Give snipers some sort of reticule for hipfire (even if it's bigger than the HMGs)--just give some idea of where my shot will go if I need to defend myself! def needs this, aiming randomly hoping to hit something when defending myself is just silly Now I can peal off my no scope sticker decal. http://www.amazon.com/BGR-Mods-No-Scope-Decal/dp/B003F1M3Q0 If they implement a hip-fire reticule, I will never stop flaming CCP. Ever. I will move to Iceland and picket their studio. ... please tell me you don't actually have one of those on your frickin TV.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.06.26 14:09:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. Okay, you want concrete. I propose the following changes to all Tactical Sniper Rifle variants: - Increase clip size to 5 rounds. - Reduce optimal range to 175m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 225m. - Reduce scope zoom by 40%. - Eliminate "sniper sway" in ADS completely to enable fast tactical firing on the move. - Increase recoil in ADS by 70% to control follow-up shot spam, and prevent quick-scoping abuse at closer ranges. - Eliminate 70% recoil penalty if the tactical sniper rifle is used while crouched. - Reduce damage by 30%. - Reduce reload time by 20%. I propose the following changes to Sniper Rifle variants: - Reduce clip size to 3 rounds. (Militia reduced to 1 round) - Reduce optimal range to 300m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 420m. - Eliminate the "sniper sway" delay if the sniper moves in ADS while crouched. - Reduce recoil by 50%. - Increase damage by 50% - Increase headshot damage bonus to 4x. - Add variable scope zoom. I propose the following changes to the Charge Sniper Rifle: - Reduce clip size to 1 round. - Reduce optimal range to 275m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 375m. - Increase damage by 100%. - Increase headshot damage bonus to 10x. - Increase reload time by 50% - Reduce maximum carried ammo by 40% - Add variable scope zoom. - Add fat, glowing blue streak to projectile path that slowly fades. - Add distinctive resonating noise. - Do not permit firing unless fully charged. How's that for concrete? Range nerfs bring the snipers closer, but not too close. The tactical sniper becomes a carefully balanced light sniper, that dedicated snipers can use on slightly closer-in maps, but this advantage is carefully mitigated by a recoil and damage nerf to prevent it from dominating RR, TAR, and SCR in their optimal ranges. The regular sniper gets a universally powerful 1-2 punch that will put down most (including proto) with its damage and recoil mitigation buffs, but this new power is carefully mitigated by a smaller 3 round clip. To offset this slightly, a variable zoom scope is introduced, and the regular sniper rifle user is now permitted to move while crouched without penalty in ADS. The charge sniper becomes the finger of God (no disrespect intended to Amarr RPers out there), but is resisted by a Devilishly small 1 round clip, increased reload time, a spectacular and cool looking streak (and sound) that reveals their position, and only 15 rounds max ammo (without ammo buffs). EDIT: No hip fire reticule is implemented.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.06.26 15:04:00 - [145] - Quote erm.. no thank you. you have looked at the numbers but not thought about practice. charge rifle at that range you will be on the ground constantly you will be reloading for a good few seconds after every single shot you still have to charge up and get your target in the middle of your scope. reduce maximum ammo, are you nuts? you only get 27 shots at the moment with the closer range you will miss more often as with every small movement by the target they will be off your scope nevermind the reticule. give away position without fail? in what way would any sniper ever want this? this would go something like this, see target, charge rifle, shoot- hit and kill- reload- die because the players squad now know where you are and closed the gap. -miss and reload- switch to sidearm and try to run away/get killed by the target. even after successful attempts you will spend most of the round trying to move to a new spot. missing will mean death, killing will be almost as bad. you are attempting to turn the charge rifle into what the plasma cannon just was only slightly more accurate, even the plasma cannon was not good as a weapon like this. you want sniper rifles to be semi quick scope close range weapons? it won't work out well.. if your outdoors in a decent position at those ranges you'll be scanned constantly as well as being ads and tank fodder, not to mention the scouts you won't ever even know were there until you read the kill sheet if you trying to use it indoors you'll quickly see why a weapon which requires aiming and which only hits the centre of it's scope is a long range weapon- good luck getting your ohk against the heavy and his squad heading for you. the thing to remember when you ask for these range reductions is that the actual sniper rifle mechanics are intended for at range combat, i.e you will find yourself using your sidearm much more than your sniper rifle if you reduce range too far. also why do you want snipers so close? the whole range reduction is simply a compromise because the red line mechanic can't be fixed. or will you admit that the red line isn't the problem and that people just want snipers to be sitting ducks? I also feel the need to ask for a guy with "concrete" sniper rifle suggestions, why do you hate snipers? @Irishwebster lol, don't worry I'll make it work
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15623	Posted - 2014.06.26 16:07:00 - [146] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? ADS', tanks, forgers, n drive by heavies say otherwise. And at the absolute very LEAST the reticule needs to change, hard to hit uplinks n such at higher end ranges. In my book, drive by heavies are worse than redliners, because at least you can weave/butterfly to avoid being sniper bait. Hack their LAV and drive off. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Ku Shala The Generals 959	Posted - 2014.06.26 17:10:00 - [147] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Another highly serious problem with snipers is the fact their bullet trails are invisible so even if you do manage to not only survive or dodge the sniper you cannot fathom where he is exactly at most of the time. While this can be argued that other games get away with this most often those other games have 1. excessively limited number of sniping spots. 2. Kill cams, 3. Far better hit incoming indicators. 4. Better kill readouts. Also its been generally known that if the game doesn't draw the source of the shot it doesn't draw any weapon effects they use. Which is why there have been calls to reduce range in exchange for power. It would increase the risk and the reward for sniper players. There are other finer points that need addressing but for the most part the snipers are most of the time too weak and excessively difficult to get a follow up shot on even on moving targets regardless at distances due to the lack of acceleration on controllers making most aiming knee jerkingly bad but this is apparent an inherent nature of ps3 controller. I am not sure how bad the mice and keyboard folks have it though. in the past i used mouse/controller but the mouse delay makes it almost imposible to aim even at short range with any weapon and I use a cyborg 9 expensive mouse. on top of the delay I find it very unstable, recticle jumping around even with expensive mouse pad. changing setting every match depending on lag. If anyone is using the mouse since 1.6 you are very patient *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä* Caldari Loyalist: -Assault CK.0 -Logistics CK.0 -Sentinal CK.0 -Scout CK.0 -Commando C-1 series
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.06.26 23:36:00 - [148] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: erm.. no thank you. you have looked at the numbers but not thought about practice. charge rifle at that range you will be on the ground constantly you will be reloading for a good few seconds after every single shot you still have to charge up and get your target in the middle of your scope. reduce maximum ammo, are you nuts? you only get 27 shots at the moment with the closer range you will miss more often as with every small movement by the target they will be off your scope nevermind the reticule. give away position without fail? in what way would any sniper ever want this? this would go something like this, see target, charge rifle, shoot- hit and kill- reload- die because the players squad now know where you are and closed the gap. -miss and reload- switch to sidearm and try to run away/get killed by the target. even after successful attempts you will spend most of the round trying to move to a new spot. missing will mean death, killing will be almost as bad. you are attempting to turn the charge rifle into what the plasma cannon just was only slightly more accurate, even the plasma cannon was not good as a weapon like this. you want sniper rifles to be semi quick scope close range weapons? it won't work out well.. if your outdoors in a decent position at those ranges you'll be scanned constantly as well as being ads and tank fodder, not to mention the scouts you won't ever even know were there until you read the kill sheet if you trying to use it indoors you'll quickly see why a weapon which requires aiming and which only hits the centre of it's scope is a long range weapon- good luck getting your ohk against the heavy and his squad heading for you. the thing to remember when you ask for these range reductions is that the actual sniper rifle mechanics are intended for at range combat, i.e you will find yourself using your sidearm much more than your sniper rifle if you reduce range too far. also why do you want snipers so close? the whole range reduction is simply a compromise because the red line mechanic can't be fixed. or will you admit that the red line isn't the problem and that people just want snipers to be sitting ducks? I also feel the need to ask for a guy with "concrete" sniper rifle suggestions, why do you hate snipers? @Irishwebster lol, don't worry I'll make it work Well, you're thinking about it with current mechanics. My proposal actually makes it much easier to shoot and much easier to kill. The Charge would literally become an instant kill weapon, and therefore the penalties are meant to discourage camping. You can't be totally hidden with a weapon that instantly kills people 90% of the time on body shots. That's not balanced, and it's not fair. The semi-quick scope aspect of the tactical sniper rifles, is just that, semi. If you are on the move, you'll get off maybe a shot or two, before the recoil penalty kicks in, and with the proposed damage reduction, that won't be enough to simply insta-kill someone. You are given a reward for stopping to crouch. The reward is an elimination of the sway when you ADS and the recoil is eliminated, but you will HAVE to stop to shoot. Maybe that wasn't clear in the list. I don't remotely hate snipers. If anything it makes me cry with how much of a non-factor they have become. I was a dedicated sniper throughout closed beta, and Chromosome. Rattati asked for quick solutions that can be implemented fast, and I provided some. I know that as a sniper, you don't like the proposals on the charge, but if you're going to be fighting closer, with a weapon that can kill most people instantly, you need to have a caveat. You are guaranteed to get the kill if you hit. Having that kind of punch is precisely what snipers want, the price to pay for that power MUST be high for balance sake, or we will be right back where we are.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.06.27 01:08:00 - [149] - Quote bumped, to make sure more ideas get shot around.
The Eristic Dust 90210 490	Posted - 2014.06.27 01:44:00 - [150] - Quote I'm not in agreeance with the exact numbers above, but definitely with the sentiment of different niches for the variants. Tac = short range and zoom (as in not redline-friendly), minimal sway. Clip needs to be kept small, though. Charge = longest range and zoom, big headshot bonus, clip size not quite as big a deal, instead tweaking charge time/effective rof to balance. Standard snipers somewhere in between, obviously. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1404	Posted - 2014.06.27 03:20:00 - [151] - Quote Your ideas are good, but I would tweak them thus. TAC snipers are close range. Lower damage, higher DPs. So less kick, faster shoots, minimal sway. Charge is longer distance, hit them hard and slow. Increase range to 400m. Increase kick. 4x headshot multiplier should be for all of them save the TAC. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2014.06.27 18:14:00 - [152] - Quote The main reason for redline snipping falls into 2 categories. 1. Thales. They never drop, so if you are going to use them ,you have to do so carefully. 1 lost thale is loss is equal to months of salvaging. If they were plentiful or other sniper rifles performed close to their level, more snipers would be willing to risk the loss in order to get to better yet more dangerous vantages. 2. Map design. Maps either have the best vantage from the redline or force you to learn to fly. The problem of flying to these spots is after 1 kill, the enemy knows exactly where you are at. If the enemy knows you are fixated to one spot, you failed to be a productive sniper. Key issues about the rifles themselves: 1. The zoom sucks when looking from the vantage points on the maps 2. besides the Thale, protos vs protos are weak. High end stacked hitpoints and regen make scoring a kill negligible 3. The reticle sucks. they need big crosshairs when ADS. DEV, try aiming at some red equipment with a tiny dot and try to figure out if your on target or not. When the screen is busy, using that micro dot sucks at times even when trying to shoot players that are standing still. No matter the fix, there will be players in the redline sniping get 2- 4 kills usually. Fix the sniper rifle, and real snipers will be in high risk high reward spots getting 20+ kills plus taking some deaths. Getting kills and destroying equipment are the only way snipers make wp's, so we need the tools to produce these kills effectively. As everthing else scaled up (HPs and regen) and the zoom, reticle, and damage never adjusted has left snipers with no desire to do much. I'm using the calmando max sniper with max amount complex damage mods with proto to try to keep up. With all of that I am less effective now than in 1.4 with a gallente scout with 1 complex damage mod in terms of kills per match. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 125	Posted - 2014.06.27 18:52:00 - [153] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: The main reason for redline snipping falls into 2 categories. 2. Map design. Maps either have the best vantage from the redline or force you to learn to fly. The problem of flying to these spots is after 1 kill, the enemy knows exactly where you are at. If the enemy knows you are fixated to one spot, you failed to be a productive sniper 3. The reticle sucks. they need big crosshairs when ADS. DEV, try aiming at some red equipment with a tiny dot and try to figure out if your on target or not. When the screen is busy, using that micro dot sucks at times even when trying to shoot players that are standing still.. I NEVER use a ds because that's basically just announcing to the entire enemy team, "HERE I AM!!!!" And to add on to 3, also a pain to hit an equipment with that damn logo popping up when you're aiming at it what i think of when charging fg
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 121	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:16:00 - [154] - Quote "this is intended, but at least you're almost guaranteed to get the kill with the charge, and in PC, that's all that matters, GETTING the kill, let your buddies kill them when they go nuts trying to reach you." Actually you'll find that not needlessly losing clones is important in a p.c battle. Almost certainly get the kill? with this weapon it would have to be a definite kill to be worth shooting at all. .. ok you get that kill but by the time you have reloaded and lined up another shot you'll be getting chased down by their squadmates, your buddies will be cleaning up the mess after they find you. how do you expect to be of any use with this weapon when every time you fire you leave a bright neon sign saying this way? you would need to relocate every time you shoot, which wastes time and means you won't be covering the area around your squad or any objectives, better hope that your squad doesn't need any support whilst your respawning or running around. and what squad really wants a player in the squad who draws attention to the squad whilst it's in the open? last but not least lets not forget the whole reason that sniper rifle ranges are op is because the maps are too small, do you know any maps with enough locations that you could move further than a few meters between every shot to a new vantage point? "Never, in a million years. I'll never want that. Read it again. You can't use these weapons at close range. You have a slightly better chance at hitting targets and making a kill within 100m with the tactical, but you can't bank on it, because of the recoil and reduced damage." can't use them at close range? so why would I want to reduce my range at the same time as reducing ammo and rate of fire? and having a flag to point me out? the whole point I'm making is that you will be constantly retreating from the enemy, and they will always know exactly where you are. "We are fodder in outdoor situations if we're not in the redline right now. This is because of the sway stopping us from lining up a shot in a reasonable amount of time and our sh17 damage. These proposals give a reduction and in some cases, all-out removal of ads sway. If a RR tries to kill you somewhere within it's maximum effective, you're guaranteed to kill him first, because he is within your optimal, and you can aim just as easily as he can. " yes we are fodder if we are caught outside at the moment, I don't think that sway has much to do with it, although it doesn't help. if a heavy came up to you with this rifle or a scout or anything else really, you will have 1 shot to defend yourself, if you miss, or if more than one person is there then you are dead. everybody who sees that bright vapour trail will already know that the first person might die on the approach, you will either be picked off by an ads or a scout or a team and all will know where to find you. at least at the moment an ads has to try to. find you. (unless you have a hive out) "I understand that at range is the intention. We will still be at range. 175m to 420m, is STILL significantly out of range for infantry small arms fire, at no point will you ever be able allowed to use a sniper rifle up close. I think Battlefield 4 does sniper rifles really well, so they can set range wherever they want." I Actually don't disagree too much with your ranges I just think that they are a bit too short and I certainly have no qualms about variable zoom. "Our biggest problem, is that sniper rifles are hitscan. Not ballistic like in battlefield. It's OP to hit something at 600m+ instantaneously, regardless of lore. When we cut range, we make up for this. And the variable zoom scope, will allow you to zoom OUT, so you can track slightly closer targets better." ok, so what your saying is that it's a lack of required skill that is the problem, a matter of fairness? so why not then reduce effective range to around 450, after that a massive reduction in damage%, possibly meaning that headshots do about 2/3 of the new headshot damage (to reward a long distance headshot, but not to the point where it's worth staying long) and all body damage is halved? not exactly the ballistics your looking for but not a terrible substitute, it also means that nobody is forced to play in a way they don't like but staying further away won't be very rewarding.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1063	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:17:00 - [155] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: good points I feel what you're saying. Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun. I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier. I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found. I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support. I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty. And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 122	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:25:00 - [156] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: good points I feel what you're saying. Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun. I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier. I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found. I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously discourage close-range use, as sniper rifles do now. The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support. I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty. And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot. unfortunately this still won't stop those who pad k/d there are plenty of snipers who play regularly and get a maximum of a few kills per round because they kill a few and hide the rest of the map. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM, Nor do I respect them. however I do prefer the charge rifle, these proposed changes are too much all at once. the bonus damage equates to a few easier kills the nerfs are: slow reload, low ammo, high recoil, scope sway, giving away your position and being closer to the enemy. this really will nerf the weapon into oblivion the answer then: if these are the price for a one shot weapon, don't go that far. it doesn't need to be a ohk weapon. This is why I still say that a headshot multiplier is all the buff that snipers need. the only reason they need a buff at all is for viability in p.c matches. after the headshot buff there will probably be cries for a nerf, but they won't be involving the red line anymore. i.e start small but balanced, a headshot damage % increase, at the same time as an effective range reduction. (for the tactical variants I do believe they should be for mid-long range as they would then be a "tactical" weapon but that's a different subject really)
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2071	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:12:00 - [157] - Quote Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514. It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game. But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match. With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield. Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage. Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly.
voidfaction Void of Faction 291	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:15:00 - [158] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514. It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game. But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match. With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield. Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage. Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3762	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:22:00 - [159] - Quote Snipers are in a good place lol. Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2072	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:24:00 - [160] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Bethhy wrote: Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514. It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game. But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match. With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield. Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage. Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD). Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage. There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay.

voidfaction Void of Faction 291	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:46:00 - [161] - Quote Bethhy wrote: voidfaction wrote: Bethhy wrote: Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514. It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game. But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match. With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield. Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage. Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD). Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage. There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay. If you know where the center of your screen is then you already have a none sway guick way to shoot your sniper rifle. run up to point blank and fire without aiming. im for buffing sniper to kill from a distance but at the same time nerfing the distance to pull them out of redline. 300m You want a CqC sniper than use the bolt pistol.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2076	Posted - 2014.07.02 20:51:00 - [162] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Bethhy wrote: voidfaction wrote: Bethhy wrote: Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514. It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game. But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match. With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield. Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage. Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD). Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage. There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay. If you know where the center of your screen is then you already have a none sway guick way to shoot your sniper rifle. run up to point blank and fire without aiming. im for buffing sniper to kill from a distance but at the same time nerfing the distance to pull them out of redline. 300m You want a CqC sniper than use the bolt pistol. Yes that is what is gonna happen a bunch of sniper shotguns? seriously.. lol I know all anyone can think is CoD because sadly most of the FPS console generation was raised on that. But think of the context of DUST with the sniper rifle and weapon variants, suit speeds and health differences.. This will bring the snipers into the fights and gunning with everyone.. And the ones up close are gonna get mowed down by automatic versions that perform better at those ranges.. But at 120-150? 200? 300? there will be mobile snipers engaging into fights in counterable positions. go run around right now. I have played DUST long enough to have the opportunity to get drunk and run around quick scoping for fun.. And the way snipers in general work... just aren't similar in anyway to CoD and BF. The idea of a stationary sniper having to crouch to perform only would work if map construction took in the fact that the gameplay even existed in the first place. There is barely any multi level playability..Internal structure.. Everything is dropship based.. No ladders to counter. it's just a mess. That is a bigger problem to fix then just letting snipers run and gun a bit too.
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 35	Posted - 2014.07.02 21:24:00 - [163] - Quote Remove sway and im happy. Thats all i need
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:53:00 - [164] - Quote Remove sway, bring them within 300m, stop letting them use dropships to get to awkward places, keep making them need to shoot multiple rounds. ok so what you want the snipers to be are mid to long range weapons that are only at ground level and have a limited area to see therefore need to keep moving around but with the intention of them being with the rest of their squad, so will the rest of the squad hang back for the sniper? when their own weapons are out of range? or maybe the sniper with his scoped weapon will be running inside compounds with everybody else, within those other rifles ranges? there isn't any middle ground if they are with the squad they will be in range of other types of weapon which are suited to quick changing situations or the squad would be useless except for defending the sniper or the sniper still has to be apart from the squad but now has to do it much closer, and within a 2d plane in other words hard to miss and easy pray for just about everybody who doesn't feel like going into the meat grinder. take away the need to crouch to be effective... I seriously doubt that any sniper would run around shooting their rifles whilst looking down scope at a target as close as 200 meters. PLEASE if any real life sniper is reading this thread, am I wrong? is using your rifle whilst looking down scope on the move something you would do? I'm not a person with any real life firearms experience but it seems to me that it shouldn't be a stable firing platform while you walk around. I know this is a game, but this would not be a sniper. it should be about setting up in the best position, having the patience to take the kill shot without missing, moving when you think the position is compromised, (although in dust that's not as important as the mercs don't die.) it's almost like hunting, you have to track your target then strike when the time is right. it's not supposed to be about closing ground and hip firing or quick scoping, or being able to keep shooting until you hit something that is what assaults and heavies are supposed to be for what you are suggesting here is just a long range assault rifle, aka a marksman rifle. which is fine if that's what you want, but do not remove my sniper rifle to get it
KILL3R H3LLH0UND PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 26	Posted - 2014.07.07 06:29:00 - [165] - Quote Bump Falling in Love with Minmatar Scout and Nova Knives BPO collector.
Aoena Rays Bragian Order Amarr Empire 506	Posted - 2014.07.08 05:17:00 - [166] - Quote I'd love to see some sniper changes but it is hard to say what those would be... without changing whole sniping mechanic... Story of your life
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1691	Posted - 2014.07.08 07:08:00 - [167] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. I use the Thale for it is the best and most reliable. It sad the other sniper rifles are so terrible, the Kal not enough damage, the charge horrible noise and if you miss, oh well. The problem is range and stopping power. I have used sniper rifles before and when I can punch a hole through a piece of steal but in a game it cant even kill a light suit in one hit, come on. I know its not real life but the sniper has it bad in a lot of places. Lack of cover in natural terrain, stopping power, scope capabilities, HIT DETECTION. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 128	Posted - 2014.07.08 14:17:00 - [168] - Quote Bumping as I have seen new sniper threads again and this one has the most potential. jathaniel.. I may not agree too much with your specifics but I gotta say your certainly doing your bit on that other thread mate. + 1 from me for doing that.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 456	Posted - 2014.07.08 14:43:00 - [169] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: "fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general. Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role? I agree with Ryme, we'll definitely have to address the redline problem before we fix the sniper rifles. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
Mex-0 The dyst0pian Corporation 29	Posted - 2014.07.08 23:02:00 - [170] - Quote When I snipe, I usually get in close to the action so I have a better chance of actually hitting something. how the redliners get hits, I don't know. *The Dual Scrambler Rifle Commando*.

Leovarian L Lavitz BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 1135	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:57:00 - [171] - Quote When I snipe.. I get on the back of my methana with my railgun. Super duper effective, downside is that I'm targetable by AV. And snipers. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them


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