DUST Search - Rattati, The Man, how about some sniper love, dude?

Snake Sellors wrote:

erm.. no thank you.

you have looked at the numbers but not thought about practice. Sad

charge rifle
at that range you will be on the ground constantly
you will be reloading for a good few seconds after every single shot
you still have to charge up and get your target in the middle of your scope.
reduce maximum ammo, are you nuts? you only get 27 shots at the moment with the closer range you will miss more often as with every small movement by the target they will be off your scope nevermind the reticule.
give away position without fail? in what way would any sniper ever want this?

this would go something like this,

see target, charge rifle, shoot- hit and kill- reload- die because the players squad now know where you are and closed the gap.
-miss and reload- switch to sidearm and try to run away/get killed by the target. Shocked

even after successful attempts you will spend most of the round trying to move to a new spot.
missing will mean death,
killing will be almost as bad.
you are attempting to turn the charge rifle into what the plasma cannon just was only slightly more accurate,
even the plasma cannon was not good as a weapon like this. Oops

you want sniper rifles to be semi quick scope close range weapons? Ugh

it won't work out well.. if your outdoors in a decent position at those ranges you'll be scanned constantly as well as being ads and tank fodder, not to mention the scouts you won't ever even know were there until you read the kill sheet Roll

if you trying to use it indoors you'll quickly see why a weapon which requires aiming and which only hits the centre of it's scope is a long range weapon- good luck getting your ohk against the heavy and his squad heading for you. What?

the thing to remember when you ask for these range reductions is that the actual sniper rifle mechanics are intended for at range combat, i.e you will find yourself using your sidearm much more than your sniper rifle if you reduce range too far.

also why do you want snipers so close? the whole range reduction is simply a compromise because the red line mechanic can't be fixed.

or will you admit that the red line isn't the problem and that people just want snipers to be sitting ducks?

I also feel the need to ask for a guy with "concrete" sniper rifle suggestions, why do you hate snipers?

@Irishwebster

lol, don't worry I'll make it work Bear


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:15:00 - [1] - Quote Been sniping since Mordu's Private Trials in the early closed beta... As has been said by some, Sniper Rifle damage is mostly okay, except in PC matches. A lot of snipers wouldn't use the redzone if the weapon was better configured for closer ranges. Reducing the sway would fix this, but with sniper rifles being hitscan... getting rid of the sway would make them OP. Unless, a skilled coder at CCP can somehow write some decent, rudimentary projectile physics code... that Dust can handle, mind you... I don't see how the sniper rifle can get out of the corner it's in. Beforehand. CCP's "solution" to sniping, was to design maps that purposefully locked snipers out of the match, and prevent them from targeting hotspots and objectives, and that is what caused me to quit in the first place. The problem is the gun's physics. Not the people using it. Punishing people for being smart with a badly implemented weapon was a poor way to go about "balancing" the game. In any case, for being hitscan, the sniper rifle's damage is NOT unreasonable; But if proper physics could be implemented, then the sniper rifle would also be due a powerful damage buff that will make truly dedicated snipers shine, and discourage noobs from padding K/D. If we CAN'T get decent physics while Dust is on PS3, then we at least need the following: 1. Variable Zoom (can the PS3 handle this?) up to at least 8x. 2. No severe sway penalty doing slight movements while crouched. (My guy has a seizure with his aim, just adjusting his toe.) 3. Additional variants or racial variants. (Charge + Burst Laser Sniper Rifle?) 4. 10x damage bonus on headshots. (No more ******* surviving headshots from Thale's and Charge sniper rifles!)
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:21:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. Rattati. Metrics on public matches may be where you want it to be. But try to collect data from major PC battles. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that you will likely only find the Thale's with reasonable usage and kill rate. Nothing short of it is really going to hold against organized proto'd enemies. Snipers usually end up DELIBERATELY being relegated to objective camping, because they can hardly put down otherwise. If you don't have a Thale's or a Charge Sniper damage-modded out the ass, then you sir, are objective camping. That is the VERY same thing that CCP Remnant said he was trying to PREVENT when the newer maps were introduced. We got a conflict of interest here.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1042	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:27:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Another highly serious problem with snipers is the fact their bullet trails are invisible so even if you do manage to not only survive or dodge the sniper you cannot fathom where he is exactly at most of the time. While this can be argued that other games get away with this most often those other games have 1. excessively limited number of sniping spots. 2. Kill cams, 3. Far better hit incoming indicators. 4. Better kill readouts. Also its been generally known that if the game doesn't draw the source of the shot it doesn't draw any weapon effects they use. Which is why there have been calls to reduce range in exchange for power. It would increase the risk and the reward for sniper players. There are other finer points that need addressing but for the most part the snipers are most of the time too weak and excessively difficult to get a follow up shot on even on moving targets regardless at distances due to the lack of acceleration on controllers making most aiming knee jerkingly bad but this is apparent an inherent nature of ps3 controller. I am not sure how bad the mice and keyboard folks have it though. KB/M user here. It's the same with us. I can land follow-up shots just fine, so I don't have a problem in public matches. But PC is where the sniper rifle is really hurting. You can land round after round, and unless you are using heavily modded Thale's, you just are NOT being helpful. The Charge can put down, but the fire rate, makes it horrible at suppression. Organized enemies in proto, will laugh anything else off.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.06.26 14:09:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom.... Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all. Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons. Okay, you want concrete. I propose the following changes to all Tactical Sniper Rifle variants: - Increase clip size to 5 rounds. - Reduce optimal range to 175m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 225m. - Reduce scope zoom by 40%. - Eliminate "sniper sway" in ADS completely to enable fast tactical firing on the move. - Increase recoil in ADS by 70% to control follow-up shot spam, and prevent quick-scoping abuse at closer ranges. - Eliminate 70% recoil penalty if the tactical sniper rifle is used while crouched. - Reduce damage by 30%. - Reduce reload time by 20%. I propose the following changes to Sniper Rifle variants: - Reduce clip size to 3 rounds. (Militia reduced to 1 round) - Reduce optimal range to 300m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 420m. - Eliminate the "sniper sway" delay if the sniper moves in ADS while crouched. - Reduce recoil by 50%. - Increase damage by 50% - Increase headshot damage bonus to 4x. - Add variable scope zoom. I propose the following changes to the Charge Sniper Rifle: - Reduce clip size to 1 round. - Reduce optimal range to 275m. - Reduce maximum effective range to 375m. - Increase damage by 100%. - Increase headshot damage bonus to 10x. - Increase reload time by 50% - Reduce maximum carried ammo by 40% - Add variable scope zoom. - Add fat, glowing blue streak to projectile path that slowly fades. - Add distinctive resonating noise. - Do not permit firing unless fully charged. How's that for concrete? Range nerfs bring the snipers closer, but not too close. The tactical sniper becomes a carefully balanced light sniper, that dedicated snipers can use on slightly closer-in maps, but this advantage is carefully mitigated by a recoil and damage nerf to prevent it from dominating RR, TAR, and SCR in their optimal ranges. The regular sniper gets a universally powerful 1-2 punch that will put down most (including proto) with its damage and recoil mitigation buffs, but this new power is carefully mitigated by a smaller 3 round clip. To offset this slightly, a variable zoom scope is introduced, and the regular sniper rifle user is now permitted to move while crouched without penalty in ADS. The charge sniper becomes the finger of God (no disrespect intended to Amarr RPers out there), but is resisted by a Devilishly small 1 round clip, increased reload time, a spectacular and cool looking streak (and sound) that reveals their position, and only 15 rounds max ammo (without ammo buffs). EDIT: No hip fire reticule is implemented.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.06.26 23:36:00 - [5] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: erm.. no thank you. you have looked at the numbers but not thought about practice. charge rifle at that range you will be on the ground constantly you will be reloading for a good few seconds after every single shot you still have to charge up and get your target in the middle of your scope. reduce maximum ammo, are you nuts? you only get 27 shots at the moment with the closer range you will miss more often as with every small movement by the target they will be off your scope nevermind the reticule. give away position without fail? in what way would any sniper ever want this? this would go something like this, see target, charge rifle, shoot- hit and kill- reload- die because the players squad now know where you are and closed the gap. -miss and reload- switch to sidearm and try to run away/get killed by the target. even after successful attempts you will spend most of the round trying to move to a new spot. missing will mean death, killing will be almost as bad. you are attempting to turn the charge rifle into what the plasma cannon just was only slightly more accurate, even the plasma cannon was not good as a weapon like this. you want sniper rifles to be semi quick scope close range weapons? it won't work out well.. if your outdoors in a decent position at those ranges you'll be scanned constantly as well as being ads and tank fodder, not to mention the scouts you won't ever even know were there until you read the kill sheet if you trying to use it indoors you'll quickly see why a weapon which requires aiming and which only hits the centre of it's scope is a long range weapon- good luck getting your ohk against the heavy and his squad heading for you. the thing to remember when you ask for these range reductions is that the actual sniper rifle mechanics are intended for at range combat, i.e you will find yourself using your sidearm much more than your sniper rifle if you reduce range too far. also why do you want snipers so close? the whole range reduction is simply a compromise because the red line mechanic can't be fixed. or will you admit that the red line isn't the problem and that people just want snipers to be sitting ducks? I also feel the need to ask for a guy with "concrete" sniper rifle suggestions, why do you hate snipers? @Irishwebster lol, don't worry I'll make it work Well, you're thinking about it with current mechanics. My proposal actually makes it much easier to shoot and much easier to kill. The Charge would literally become an instant kill weapon, and therefore the penalties are meant to discourage camping. You can't be totally hidden with a weapon that instantly kills people 90% of the time on body shots. That's not balanced, and it's not fair. The semi-quick scope aspect of the tactical sniper rifles, is just that, semi. If you are on the move, you'll get off maybe a shot or two, before the recoil penalty kicks in, and with the proposed damage reduction, that won't be enough to simply insta-kill someone. You are given a reward for stopping to crouch. The reward is an elimination of the sway when you ADS and the recoil is eliminated, but you will HAVE to stop to shoot. Maybe that wasn't clear in the list. I don't remotely hate snipers. If anything it makes me cry with how much of a non-factor they have become. I was a dedicated sniper throughout closed beta, and Chromosome. Rattati asked for quick solutions that can be implemented fast, and I provided some. I know that as a sniper, you don't like the proposals on the charge, but if you're going to be fighting closer, with a weapon that can kill most people instantly, you need to have a caveat. You are guaranteed to get the kill if you hit. Having that kind of punch is precisely what snipers want, the price to pay for that power MUST be high for balance sake, or we will be right back where we are.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1049	Posted - 2014.06.27 01:08:00 - [6] - Quote bumped, to make sure more ideas get shot around.
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1063	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:17:00 - [7] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: good points I feel what you're saying. Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun. I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier. I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found. I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support. I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty. And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot.