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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance
1404
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:20:00 -
[151] - Quote
Your ideas are good, but I would tweak them thus.
TAC snipers are close range. Lower damage, higher DPs. So less kick, faster shoots, minimal sway.
Charge is longer distance, hit them hard and slow. Increase range to 400m. Increase kick.
4x headshot multiplier should be for all of them save the TAC.
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2014.06.27 18:14:00 -
[152] - Quote
The main reason for redline snipping falls into 2 categories. 1. Thales. They never drop, so if you are going to use them ,you have to do so carefully. 1 lost thale is loss is equal to months of salvaging. If they were plentiful or other sniper rifles performed close to their level, more snipers would be willing to risk the loss in order to get to better yet more dangerous vantages.
2. Map design. Maps either have the best vantage from the redline or force you to learn to fly. The problem of flying to these spots is after 1 kill, the enemy knows exactly where you are at. If the enemy knows you are fixated to one spot, you failed to be a productive sniper.
Key issues about the rifles themselves: 1. The zoom sucks when looking from the vantage points on the maps 2. besides the Thale, protos vs protos are weak. High end stacked hitpoints and regen make scoring a kill negligible 3. The reticle sucks. they need big crosshairs when ADS. DEV, try aiming at some red equipment with a tiny dot and try to figure out if your on target or not. When the screen is busy, using that micro dot sucks at times even when trying to shoot players that are standing still.
No matter the fix, there will be players in the redline sniping get 2- 4 kills usually. Fix the sniper rifle, and real snipers will be in high risk high reward spots getting 20+ kills plus taking some deaths. Getting kills and destroying equipment are the only way snipers make wp's, so we need the tools to produce these kills effectively. As everthing else scaled up (HPs and regen) and the zoom, reticle, and damage never adjusted has left snipers with no desire to do much. I'm using the calmando max sniper with max amount complex damage mods with proto to try to keep up. With all of that I am less effective now than in 1.4 with a gallente scout with 1 complex damage mod in terms of kills per match.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Mike De Luca
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.06.27 18:52:00 -
[153] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:The main reason for redline snipping falls into 2 categories.
2. Map design. Maps either have the best vantage from the redline or force you to learn to fly. The problem of flying to these spots is after 1 kill, the enemy knows exactly where you are at. If the enemy knows you are fixated to one spot, you failed to be a productive sniper
3. The reticle sucks. they need big crosshairs when ADS. DEV, try aiming at some red equipment with a tiny dot and try to figure out if your on target or not. When the screen is busy, using that micro dot sucks at times even when trying to shoot players that are standing still..
I NEVER use a ds because that's basically just announcing to the entire enemy team, "HERE I AM!!!!"
And to add on to 3, also a pain to hit an equipment with that damn logo popping up when you're aiming at it
what i think of when charging fg
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
121
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Posted - 2014.06.29 22:16:00 -
[154] - Quote
"this is intended, but at least you're almost guaranteed to get the kill with the charge, and in PC, that's all that matters, GETTING the kill, let your buddies kill them when they go nuts trying to reach you."
Actually you'll find that not needlessly losing clones is important in a p.c battle. Almost certainly get the kill? with this weapon it would have to be a definite kill to be worth shooting at all.
.. ok you get that kill but by the time you have reloaded and lined up another shot you'll be getting chased down by their squadmates, your buddies will be cleaning up the mess after they find you. how do you expect to be of any use with this weapon when every time you fire you leave a bright neon sign saying this way?
you would need to relocate every time you shoot, which wastes time and means you won't be covering the area around your squad or any objectives, better hope that your squad doesn't need any support whilst your respawning or running around. and what squad really wants a player in the squad who draws attention to the squad whilst it's in the open?
last but not least lets not forget the whole reason that sniper rifle ranges are op is because the maps are too small, do you know any maps with enough locations that you could move further than a few meters between every shot to a new vantage point?
"Never, in a million years. I'll never want that. Read it again. You can't use these weapons at close range. You have a slightly better chance at hitting targets and making a kill within 100m with the tactical, but you can't bank on it, because of the recoil and reduced damage."
can't use them at close range? so why would I want to reduce my range at the same time as reducing ammo and rate of fire? and having a flag to point me out? the whole point I'm making is that you will be constantly retreating from the enemy, and they will always know exactly where you are.
"We are fodder in outdoor situations if we're not in the redline right now. This is because of the sway stopping us from lining up a shot in a reasonable amount of time and our sh17 damage. These proposals give a reduction and in some cases, all-out removal of ads sway. If a RR tries to kill you somewhere within it's maximum effective, you're guaranteed to kill him first, because he is within your optimal, and you can aim just as easily as he can. "
yes we are fodder if we are caught outside at the moment, I don't think that sway has much to do with it, although it doesn't help. if a heavy came up to you with this rifle or a scout or anything else really, you will have 1 shot to defend yourself, if you miss, or if more than one person is there then you are dead.
everybody who sees that bright vapour trail will already know that the first person might die on the approach, you will either be picked off by an ads or a scout or a team and all will know where to find you. at least at the moment an ads has to try to. find you. (unless you have a hive out)
"I understand that at range is the intention. We will still be at range. 175m to 420m, is STILL significantly out of range for infantry small arms fire, at no point will you ever be able allowed to use a sniper rifle up close. I think Battlefield 4 does sniper rifles really well, so they can set range wherever they want."
I Actually don't disagree too much with your ranges I just think that they are a bit too short and I certainly have no qualms about variable zoom.
"Our biggest problem, is that sniper rifles are hitscan. Not ballistic like in battlefield. It's OP to hit something at 600m+ instantaneously, regardless of lore. When we cut range, we make up for this. And the variable zoom scope, will allow you to zoom OUT, so you can track slightly closer targets better."
ok, so what your saying is that it's a lack of required skill that is the problem, a matter of fairness? so why not then reduce effective range to around 450, after that a massive reduction in damage%, possibly meaning that headshots do about 2/3 of the new headshot damage (to reward a long distance headshot, but not to the point where it's worth staying long) and all body damage is halved?
not exactly the ballistics your looking for but not a terrible substitute, it also means that nobody is forced to play in a way they don't like but staying further away won't be very rewarding.
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Jathniel
G I A N T General Tso's Alliance
1063
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Posted - 2014.07.02 09:17:00 -
[155] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote: good points
I feel what you're saying.
Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun.
I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier.
I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found.
I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously
The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support.
I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty.
And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
122
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Posted - 2014.07.02 18:25:00 -
[156] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Snake Sellors wrote: good points
I feel what you're saying. Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun. I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier. I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found. I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously discourage close-range use, as sniper rifles do now. The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support. I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty. And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot.
unfortunately this still won't stop those who pad k/d there are plenty of snipers who play regularly and get a maximum of a few kills per round because they kill a few and hide the rest of the map.
I AM NOT ONE OF THEM, Nor do I respect them. however I do prefer the charge rifle, these proposed changes are too much all at once.
the bonus damage equates to a few easier kills the nerfs are: slow reload, low ammo, high recoil, scope sway, giving away your position and being closer to the enemy.
this really will nerf the weapon into oblivion
the answer then: if these are the price for a one shot weapon, don't go that far. it doesn't need to be a ohk weapon.
This is why I still say that a headshot multiplier is all the buff that snipers need. the only reason they need a buff at all is for viability in p.c matches. after the headshot buff there will probably be cries for a nerf, but they won't be involving the red line anymore.
i.e start small but balanced, a headshot damage % increase, at the same time as an effective range reduction.
(for the tactical variants I do believe they should be for mid-long range as they would then be a "tactical" weapon but that's a different subject really)
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2071
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:12:00 -
[157] - Quote
Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514.
It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game.
But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match.
With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield.
Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage.
Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. |
voidfaction
Void of Faction
291
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:15:00 -
[158] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514.
It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game.
But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match.
With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield.
Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage.
Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle
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TechMechMeds
Inner.Hell
3762
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:22:00 -
[159] - Quote
Snipers are in a good place lol.
Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2072
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Bethhy wrote:Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514.
It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game.
But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match.
With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield.
Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage.
Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle
Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD).
Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage.
There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay. |
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voidfaction
Void of Faction
291
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:46:00 -
[161] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:voidfaction wrote:Bethhy wrote:Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514.
It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game.
But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match.
With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield.
Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage.
Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD). Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage. There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay. If you know where the center of your screen is then you already have a none sway guick way to shoot your sniper rifle. run up to point blank and fire without aiming. im for buffing sniper to kill from a distance but at the same time nerfing the distance to pull them out of redline. 300m You want a CqC sniper than use the bolt pistol.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2076
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Posted - 2014.07.02 20:51:00 -
[162] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Bethhy wrote:voidfaction wrote:Bethhy wrote:Remove Sway on snipers in DUST 514.
It a great concept mechanic and i see it being very useful and relevant in Legion beign a PC based game.
But in DUST the sniper gameplay has been backed into this tiny corner of options and ability to affect a match.
With Sway gone, snipers could be more effective in quick reaction situations, like on the actual battlefield.
Have the ability to move more into forward positions in covering team mates and be more mobile as you don;t have to focus on being stationary for long periods while having a vantage.
Possibly might even see the evolution of a Force Recon Sniper who can advance on enemy positions and objectives and cause pressure directly. You mean the ability for quick scoping like in CoD. Yeah that is the game I want to play where the best pistol is a sniper rifle Quick scoping requires the ability to one shot when even hitting 1ft away from your opponents finger tips(CoD). Quick scoping in DUST when you have to lay down multiple shots to get a kill in most cases will be challenging and largely player skill dictating outcomes. And if they are running around close range with a Thales... Then more thales for everyone in salvage. There also is little to no aim assist on sniper scopes that produce what you are thinking. It will be a true challenging and rewarding form of gameplay. If you know where the center of your screen is then you already have a none sway guick way to shoot your sniper rifle. run up to point blank and fire without aiming. im for buffing sniper to kill from a distance but at the same time nerfing the distance to pull them out of redline. 300m You want a CqC sniper than use the bolt pistol.
Yes that is what is gonna happen a bunch of sniper shotguns? seriously.. lol
I know all anyone can think is CoD because sadly most of the FPS console generation was raised on that.
But think of the context of DUST with the sniper rifle and weapon variants, suit speeds and health differences..
This will bring the snipers into the fights and gunning with everyone.. And the ones up close are gonna get mowed down by automatic versions that perform better at those ranges.. But at 120-150? 200? 300? there will be mobile snipers engaging into fights in counterable positions.
go run around right now. I have played DUST long enough to have the opportunity to get drunk and run around quick scoping for fun.. And the way snipers in general work... just aren't similar in anyway to CoD and BF.
The idea of a stationary sniper having to crouch to perform only would work if map construction took in the fact that the gameplay even existed in the first place. There is barely any multi level playability..Internal structure.. Everything is dropship based.. No ladders to counter. it's just a mess.
That is a bigger problem to fix then just letting snipers run and gun a bit too. |
Zindorak
CaUsE-4-CoNcErN
35
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Posted - 2014.07.02 21:24:00 -
[163] - Quote
Remove sway and im happy. Thats all i need |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
125
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:53:00 -
[164] - Quote
Remove sway, bring them within 300m, stop letting them use dropships to get to awkward places, keep making them need to shoot multiple rounds.
ok so what you want the snipers to be are mid to long range weapons that are only at ground level and have a limited area to see therefore need to keep moving around but with the intention of them being with the rest of their squad, so will the rest of the squad hang back for the sniper? when their own weapons are out of range? or maybe the sniper with his scoped weapon will be running inside compounds with everybody else, within those other rifles ranges?
there isn't any middle ground if they are with the squad they will be in range of other types of weapon which are suited to quick changing situations or the squad would be useless except for defending the sniper
or the sniper still has to be apart from the squad but now has to do it much closer, and within a 2d plane in other words hard to miss and easy pray for just about everybody who doesn't feel like going into the meat grinder.
take away the need to crouch to be effective...
I seriously doubt that any sniper would run around shooting their rifles whilst looking down scope at a target as close as 200 meters. PLEASE if any real life sniper is reading this thread, am I wrong? is using your rifle whilst looking down scope on the move something you would do?
I'm not a person with any real life firearms experience but it seems to me that it shouldn't be a stable firing platform while you walk around.
I know this is a game, but this would not be a sniper. it should be about setting up in the best position, having the patience to take the kill shot without missing, moving when you think the position is compromised, (although in dust that's not as important as the mercs don't die.) it's almost like hunting, you have to track your target then strike when the time is right. it's not supposed to be about closing ground and hip firing or quick scoping, or being able to keep shooting until you hit something that is what assaults and heavies are supposed to be for
what you are suggesting here is just a long range assault rifle, aka a marksman rifle. which is fine if that's what you want, but do not remove my sniper rifle to get it
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KILL3R H3LLH0UND
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
26
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Posted - 2014.07.07 06:29:00 -
[165] - Quote
Bump
Falling in Love with Minmatar Scout and Nova Knives
BPO collector.
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Aoena Rays
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
506
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Posted - 2014.07.08 05:17:00 -
[166] - Quote
I'd love to see some sniper changes but it is hard to say what those would be... without changing whole sniping mechanic...
Story of your life
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calvin b
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1691
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Posted - 2014.07.08 07:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I didn't see anything concrete here, increase headshot multiplier, range, make other snipers than Thale's powerful, increase scope zoom....
Anecdotally I haven't been killed by a sniper in ages, get picked off once in a blue moon if I am careless and in open under half hp. I need to look at the numbers, but sniper use is very stable, none of the rifles or new weapons have had a meaningful impact on the use of sniper rifles, so it's a steady group of people who like to snipe apparantly, I am not even sure they venture into Tac AR or SCR at all.
Feel free to share, we have no specific hate/love with snipers, they should have a viable place on the battlefield like all of our weapons.
I use the Thale for it is the best and most reliable. It sad the other sniper rifles are so terrible, the Kal not enough damage, the charge horrible noise and if you miss, oh well. The problem is range and stopping power. I have used sniper rifles before and when I can punch a hole through a piece of steal but in a game it cant even kill a light suit in one hit, come on. I know its not real life but the sniper has it bad in a lot of places. Lack of cover in natural terrain, stopping power, scope capabilities, HIT DETECTION.
Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
128
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Posted - 2014.07.08 14:17:00 -
[168] - Quote
Bumping as I have seen new sniper threads again and this one has the most potential.
jathaniel.. I may not agree too much with your specifics but I gotta say your certainly doing your bit on that other thread mate.
+ 1 from me for doing that. |
Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
456
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Posted - 2014.07.08 14:43:00 -
[169] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:"fix the redline" is this false dichotomy that it is the sole balancing factor within the sniper rifle's use. We want to balance the weapon, not listen to people that are just going to take away from the discussion by derailing it or spitefully adding in things because they hate the role in general.
Flag "fix the redline" posts because they're derailing, trolling, and generally disrespective of the conversation. 'Fix the redline' is the entirety of the conversation about snipers. How can you possibly 'balance' a role without addressing the fact that the role is immune to receiving damage from players in any other role?
I agree with Ryme, we'll definitely have to address the redline problem before we fix the sniper rifles.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
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Mex-0
The dyst0pian Corporation
29
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Posted - 2014.07.08 23:02:00 -
[170] - Quote
When I snipe, I usually get in close to the action so I have a better chance of actually hitting something. how the redliners get hits, I don't know.
The Dual Scrambler Rifle Commando.
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Leovarian L Lavitz
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
1135
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:57:00 -
[171] - Quote
When I snipe.. I get on the back of my methana with my railgun. Super duper effective, downside is that I'm targetable by AV. And snipers.
Omni-Soldier
Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
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