DUST Search - Rattati, The Man, how about some sniper love, dude?

Jathniel wrote:

Snake Sellors wrote:

good points

I feel what you're saying.

Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun.

I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head).
Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier.

I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map?
I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found.

I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react.
I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back.
I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely.
Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously discourage close-range use, as sniper rifles do now.

The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support.

I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty.

And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 105	Posted - 2014.06.21 22:49:00 - [1] - Quote I would be genuinely happy just to hear that snipers are getting some attention. I'll even be pleased at this point if rattati comes on to this thread and says "your having a laugh we all hate snipers". to the thread I say this, the sniper rifles are not in a good place and are far from 'fine' don't believe me? grab an ishukone and go do a p.c match... if you also happen to believe that a sniper should be within 300 meters then PLEASE do it within that range... I Already know what happens at this suggestion, I've tried it as well as other tactics. Too many people will keep going on about redlines everytime there is a sniper thread and everytime I say "snipers are not the only people that use the red line therefore it is not snipers you are complaining about go and make a thread about red lines in the suggestions threads" "snipers do not care about the red line, the fact that they use it stems from the lack of half decent vantage points inside the middle of the map areas, we never asked for bowl shape maps, and I can honestly say I have never seen a sniper asking for any kind of extra red line benefits" Please note I have even added threads myself asking for changes to the red line areas and you know what folks.. I didn't see a single one of you people who regularly say about snipers getting no help til the red line is gone put so much as a plus one on there even though the suggestion would of completely fixed the problem. so you say about the red lines being the reason to keep anybody who enjoys sniping in a bad place in this game... ok I CALL B.S I don't for a second believe that the red line being taken away would stop you complaining about snipers. anybody who has seen good results from a good sniper recently has seen it in a pub match. If I'm wrong feel free to post on here saying what you saw in a p.c match that means that snipers are still 'fine' . only from p.c battles . not including thales rifles, you can not gain a thales rifle through choice. to the author, +1 mate I'm a dedicated sniper in this game and I miss being able to take part in p.c matches in the way I like. so good luck getting a positive response mate, fingers crossed. (before anybody gets all 'your a coward', etc I also play heavy and a.v roles. sniping is my preferred game style and my corp would agree with me that I am an asset to the team when I do it.)
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 106	Posted - 2014.06.22 13:40:00 - [2] - Quote Your right draco, you haven't seen me in action. even in 1.7 I could still be asked to take part in p.c battles as a sniper. "skill up to get damage mods" good idea, good advice for any sniper who hasn't already. along with get the calmando suit to proto, fit three of them and make sure that you get your proficiency up to level 5. also your reload speed is worth investing in and so are nano hives. "I stopped paying attention at p.c battles" this is my point. why should ANY player be penalised in this way? please name one other player type who is considered a waste of a slot when they have already skilled into the role as far as they can? sniping Is my preferred role not my only one, at the moment I can take part in p.c battles but I know that I could be a much better team member as a sniper because I have already done it before. (and yes I do play as part of the team.) nice to see so many people on here staying on topic. I do actually like the idea of increasing headshot damage in ratio to distance, however I seriously doubt that many people would get anywhere as a sniper within the ranges of other rifles whilst zoom ranges are fixed and there is no reticule. .another problem would be that if scopes were fixed to allow that kind of play you will get quick scopers. .people don't want a sniper up close who can actually compete with their cqc weapons even if there was one made it would not be a sniper rifle. .Headshots from a sniper rifle should be a ohk most of the time but I do agree that heavy suits that are fully skilled into should take two. .if the range of sniper rifles range were to be decreased at the same time as decent vantages being placed into the maps then a sniper would be able to only cover for example one objective area at a time. (I'm not one for reducing sniper range at all, but it could work like this) .reducing the red line is not a bad idea as far as sniping goes it would mean some of the positions become non red line, but you would risk having times of being red lined with no way of re-spawning. . I wholeheartedly agree that snipers should be able to tag targets for our squads, meaning we could be a spotter as part of our role. . I think that the scopes should improved. . I also agree with the 'hollow" reticule . I don't think that needing a dropship Is that bad but I will agree it's a hinderance in ambush modes now
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 112	Posted - 2014.06.24 17:32:00 - [3] - Quote Wow, Rattati, earlier I posted I would be genuinely happy if a dev posted on this thread at all... I meant it. thank you for that. just a few points 1.yes snipers are at the moment in a good place for pub matches, but only if you are using a prototype rifle with damage mods. more basic rifles will not be getting good scores and are only viable for counter sniping. 2.I have 26 mill sp and the large majority of it is in sniping, when I decided what to go proto in i based the decision on what i am good at and what I enjoy doing, I didn't pick the role in order to be rendered useless in battles for my corp. Sniping is not the only thing I do, I am also a caldari sentinel and I do fairly well with it, but I prefer to snipe in fps games. I actually enjoy the gameplay of being a sniper, I don't care about kdr and it's not a matter of gun game. 3.About balancing sniper rifles, just a thought here not a suggestion but there are no positions where a sniper can kill people from without being at risk of being killed, ok it means a change of plan to be dealt with but it is possible. .if a sniper was a real threat on the battlefield due to having a dangerous weapon people would be less likely to react to them with complacency, in other words a sniper would have to move regularly because players will actively seek them out. on to suggestions (please bear in mind that im also thinking about p.c battles 1.I think that a sniper rifle needs a boost to the headshot multiplier at the moment it's not enough. I would ideally suggest that yes one headshot should kill the majority of dropsuits at proto level. (don't forget this is the maximum damage available) (I understand that people are not going to agree.. be patient.) 2.the reticule for the sniper rifles, most people on here say they want this, I personally haven't noticed a problem but I do think this sounds much better than the current one, and it wouldn't increase damage. 3. tagging enemies or at the very least vehicles, I think that this would be a great thing for snipers to start being useful again and it would also allow friendly snipers to highlight enemy ones that they cant kill. these are the suggestions put forward by the snipers here. IF nobody wants to agree to the first one, a standby suggestion: . decrease the amount of time the charge rifle takes to charge and make the ammo skill give us 1 extra bullet (preferably per clip) per level it really should of been changed a long time ago anyway. if the snipers aren't supposed to kill by oneshots that's fine but can you at least make it so that multiple shots are possible? with a reticule change and an increase in ammo with quicker firing on the high damage rifle the sniper rifles should become more able to cope including in p.c But ONLY in the hands of skilled people who can get headshots. body shots will continue to be laughable and just waste ammo but people who can headshot will be able to do so more than once before the target calmly walks away. for the other variants the increase in ammo per clip should be enough, if not then we could look into headshot damage. in order to balance I would suggest a large increase in isk for proto rifles, if we can't effect the red line and people are not happy with the current level of risk then increase the cost instead.(although I would like to know what high 'reward' we are supposed to be getting.) and this would make people more inclined to use advanced sniper rifles in pub matches as most people do with other weapons now.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 112	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:44:00 - [4] - Quote Okay good so far, just a little more details when you can please I Completely agree that we shouldn't be 'safe' in a red line. my only problem is that range reduction will also effect verticality if you reduce range too far then what you will create won't really be a sniper rifle because you wouldn't be able to use vantage points meaning that overwatch playstyles wont be possible. Please don't forget that distance is a part of a snipers defence and a good view is a part of their attacks, Snipers go up high to get a better view to be able to provide intel and good target acquisition also we really don't stand too much of a chance when on the ground and facing off against heavies, (that said if we could get some extra high points and as somebody else said extra cover on maps that would be brilliant, extra cover would also help us shield tankers) as I think about the things stated by rattati I can see them working, but I would Really appreciate those 'balance nerfs' coming in small tweaks. as for the reduction to clip sizes goes sounds fair to me but could you also make the ammo skill play a part in upgrading the stats to our ammo counts, given the initial purpose of the reduction I would probably say to total ammo count, at the moment it really doesn't achieve anything and I would love to be able to put more skill points into sniping. (it also means that snipers with a high level of sp invested get more of an advantage thus providing extra reason to skill into it more) also please take into account the charge time on the charge rifle when reducing the clip size because: charge, aim, fire, charge, aim, fire, charge, aim, fire, reload, charge. if there is something that 4 shots to kill they really won't be possible to kill with it. maybe if you want to reduce to three shots then boost the damage enough that it works or possibly reduce the charge time? Thank you once again rattati, looking forward to being part of my corps p.c team as a sniper again.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 115	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:46:00 - [5] - Quote @ Irish Webster +1 from me. "duck because I see you " classic.. +10 for the enjoying being a useful sniper post +100 for trying to keep the vantage point alive +1000 for the shared joy in the hunt. cold and clinical precision, a good description as for a sniper thread with a dev & cpm on here... Priceless. if it works out you may have earned immunity from my rifle
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.06.26 15:04:00 - [6] - Quote erm.. no thank you. you have looked at the numbers but not thought about practice. charge rifle at that range you will be on the ground constantly you will be reloading for a good few seconds after every single shot you still have to charge up and get your target in the middle of your scope. reduce maximum ammo, are you nuts? you only get 27 shots at the moment with the closer range you will miss more often as with every small movement by the target they will be off your scope nevermind the reticule. give away position without fail? in what way would any sniper ever want this? this would go something like this, see target, charge rifle, shoot- hit and kill- reload- die because the players squad now know where you are and closed the gap. -miss and reload- switch to sidearm and try to run away/get killed by the target. even after successful attempts you will spend most of the round trying to move to a new spot. missing will mean death, killing will be almost as bad. you are attempting to turn the charge rifle into what the plasma cannon just was only slightly more accurate, even the plasma cannon was not good as a weapon like this. you want sniper rifles to be semi quick scope close range weapons? it won't work out well.. if your outdoors in a decent position at those ranges you'll be scanned constantly as well as being ads and tank fodder, not to mention the scouts you won't ever even know were there until you read the kill sheet if you trying to use it indoors you'll quickly see why a weapon which requires aiming and which only hits the centre of it's scope is a long range weapon- good luck getting your ohk against the heavy and his squad heading for you. the thing to remember when you ask for these range reductions is that the actual sniper rifle mechanics are intended for at range combat, i.e you will find yourself using your sidearm much more than your sniper rifle if you reduce range too far. also why do you want snipers so close? the whole range reduction is simply a compromise because the red line mechanic can't be fixed. or will you admit that the red line isn't the problem and that people just want snipers to be sitting ducks? I also feel the need to ask for a guy with "concrete" sniper rifle suggestions, why do you hate snipers? @Irishwebster lol, don't worry I'll make it work
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 121	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:16:00 - [7] - Quote "this is intended, but at least you're almost guaranteed to get the kill with the charge, and in PC, that's all that matters, GETTING the kill, let your buddies kill them when they go nuts trying to reach you." Actually you'll find that not needlessly losing clones is important in a p.c battle. Almost certainly get the kill? with this weapon it would have to be a definite kill to be worth shooting at all. .. ok you get that kill but by the time you have reloaded and lined up another shot you'll be getting chased down by their squadmates, your buddies will be cleaning up the mess after they find you. how do you expect to be of any use with this weapon when every time you fire you leave a bright neon sign saying this way? you would need to relocate every time you shoot, which wastes time and means you won't be covering the area around your squad or any objectives, better hope that your squad doesn't need any support whilst your respawning or running around. and what squad really wants a player in the squad who draws attention to the squad whilst it's in the open? last but not least lets not forget the whole reason that sniper rifle ranges are op is because the maps are too small, do you know any maps with enough locations that you could move further than a few meters between every shot to a new vantage point? "Never, in a million years. I'll never want that. Read it again. You can't use these weapons at close range. You have a slightly better chance at hitting targets and making a kill within 100m with the tactical, but you can't bank on it, because of the recoil and reduced damage." can't use them at close range? so why would I want to reduce my range at the same time as reducing ammo and rate of fire? and having a flag to point me out? the whole point I'm making is that you will be constantly retreating from the enemy, and they will always know exactly where you are. "We are fodder in outdoor situations if we're not in the redline right now. This is because of the sway stopping us from lining up a shot in a reasonable amount of time and our sh17 damage. These proposals give a reduction and in some cases, all-out removal of ads sway. If a RR tries to kill you somewhere within it's maximum effective, you're guaranteed to kill him first, because he is within your optimal, and you can aim just as easily as he can. " yes we are fodder if we are caught outside at the moment, I don't think that sway has much to do with it, although it doesn't help. if a heavy came up to you with this rifle or a scout or anything else really, you will have 1 shot to defend yourself, if you miss, or if more than one person is there then you are dead. everybody who sees that bright vapour trail will already know that the first person might die on the approach, you will either be picked off by an ads or a scout or a team and all will know where to find you. at least at the moment an ads has to try to. find you. (unless you have a hive out) "I understand that at range is the intention. We will still be at range. 175m to 420m, is STILL significantly out of range for infantry small arms fire, at no point will you ever be able allowed to use a sniper rifle up close. I think Battlefield 4 does sniper rifles really well, so they can set range wherever they want." I Actually don't disagree too much with your ranges I just think that they are a bit too short and I certainly have no qualms about variable zoom. "Our biggest problem, is that sniper rifles are hitscan. Not ballistic like in battlefield. It's OP to hit something at 600m+ instantaneously, regardless of lore. When we cut range, we make up for this. And the variable zoom scope, will allow you to zoom OUT, so you can track slightly closer targets better." ok, so what your saying is that it's a lack of required skill that is the problem, a matter of fairness? so why not then reduce effective range to around 450, after that a massive reduction in damage%, possibly meaning that headshots do about 2/3 of the new headshot damage (to reward a long distance headshot, but not to the point where it's worth staying long) and all body damage is halved? not exactly the ballistics your looking for but not a terrible substitute, it also means that nobody is forced to play in a way they don't like but staying further away won't be very rewarding.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 122	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: good points I feel what you're saying. Using the Charge Sniper Rifle, would be the only time your position is given away. The other sniper rifles won't leave the energy/vapor trail, that I'm proposing for that one gun. I think the nerfs and buffs I propose for it are reasonable, precisely because it would be a 1-shot kill, on absolutely everyone except the toughest heavies (unless you shoot them in the head). Hitscan mechanics make delivering this deathblow that much easier. I mean what do you think the price should be for a 1-shot kill that can nail someone almost anywhere on the map? I am a sniper, but for gameplay's sake; a sniper's role be damned if I can insta-kill everyone and can't be found. I significantly hurt the reload time, so that if you miss you are penalized, and if you kill, other players still have a chance to react. I added a trail so that you just can't kill people and they have no means of fighting back. I reduced the amount of ammo, so that even when you're doing well, you can't maintain it indefinitely. Lastly, it doesn't get any sway and recoil reductions/eliminations like the other sniper rifles. It'll feel just as heavy as it does now. This is to seriously discourage close-range use, as sniper rifles do now. The price for an instant kill weapon MUST, for balance's sake, be HIGH. High enough to discourage widespread use, but not so high as to stop the weapon from doing it's job, which is landing a guaranteed kill. That's all that matters. You need a weapon that can dislodge a heavy that has placed himself in a most inconvenient position, and the Charge SR, on headshot, will be able to banish him, even with logi support. I'm sorry, I respect that being hidden is the sniper's role. But with the proposal for the Charge SR, and despite my bias in favor of snipers, I just CANNOT abide giving them a 100% 1-shot kill without serious penalty. And if someone wants to use the Charge to pad K/D, they are going to do it very very slowly. It'll equal out to about 12 kills per 60 seconds without the rapid reload buff, assuming a kill every shot. unfortunately this still won't stop those who pad k/d there are plenty of snipers who play regularly and get a maximum of a few kills per round because they kill a few and hide the rest of the map. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM, Nor do I respect them. however I do prefer the charge rifle, these proposed changes are too much all at once. the bonus damage equates to a few easier kills the nerfs are: slow reload, low ammo, high recoil, scope sway, giving away your position and being closer to the enemy. this really will nerf the weapon into oblivion the answer then: if these are the price for a one shot weapon, don't go that far. it doesn't need to be a ohk weapon. This is why I still say that a headshot multiplier is all the buff that snipers need. the only reason they need a buff at all is for viability in p.c matches. after the headshot buff there will probably be cries for a nerf, but they won't be involving the red line anymore. i.e start small but balanced, a headshot damage % increase, at the same time as an effective range reduction. (for the tactical variants I do believe they should be for mid-long range as they would then be a "tactical" weapon but that's a different subject really)
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:53:00 - [9] - Quote Remove sway, bring them within 300m, stop letting them use dropships to get to awkward places, keep making them need to shoot multiple rounds. ok so what you want the snipers to be are mid to long range weapons that are only at ground level and have a limited area to see therefore need to keep moving around but with the intention of them being with the rest of their squad, so will the rest of the squad hang back for the sniper? when their own weapons are out of range? or maybe the sniper with his scoped weapon will be running inside compounds with everybody else, within those other rifles ranges? there isn't any middle ground if they are with the squad they will be in range of other types of weapon which are suited to quick changing situations or the squad would be useless except for defending the sniper or the sniper still has to be apart from the squad but now has to do it much closer, and within a 2d plane in other words hard to miss and easy pray for just about everybody who doesn't feel like going into the meat grinder. take away the need to crouch to be effective... I seriously doubt that any sniper would run around shooting their rifles whilst looking down scope at a target as close as 200 meters. PLEASE if any real life sniper is reading this thread, am I wrong? is using your rifle whilst looking down scope on the move something you would do? I'm not a person with any real life firearms experience but it seems to me that it shouldn't be a stable firing platform while you walk around. I know this is a game, but this would not be a sniper. it should be about setting up in the best position, having the patience to take the kill shot without missing, moving when you think the position is compromised, (although in dust that's not as important as the mercs don't die.) it's almost like hunting, you have to track your target then strike when the time is right. it's not supposed to be about closing ground and hip firing or quick scoping, or being able to keep shooting until you hit something that is what assaults and heavies are supposed to be for what you are suggesting here is just a long range assault rifle, aka a marksman rifle. which is fine if that's what you want, but do not remove my sniper rifle to get it
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 128	Posted - 2014.07.08 14:17:00 - [10] - Quote Bumping as I have seen new sniper threads again and this one has the most potential. jathaniel.. I may not agree too much with your specifics but I gotta say your certainly doing your bit on that other thread mate. + 1 from me for doing that.