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Spartan MK420 wrote:

Xx-VxF-xX wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

So let me get this straight, The gallente scout is getting all it's ewar nerfed, specially the range while the cal;dari gets to keeps a 3% to range per level...

I have never used a brick tanks and now with these changes you have just nerfed the gallente intel ewar ability to complete uselessness. I am serious the gallente scout has had the range bonus since before the changes to scouts and no one ever complained until brick tanked scouts became a thing, which means that the problem is not the scan range.

The problem is and always has been brick tanked scouts and that second equipment slot which is unnecessary. Either you cloak or you don't and fit remotes or whatever.

CCP this is crazy... If you dont change the brick tanking ability all you dod was make the gall scout remain more as an assault.

DON"T take the scan range that it has always had now.

Before 1.8 the Gal scout had the role of eWAR scanner that is now the Cal scouts job.
Cal is intel gathering - precision/range
Gal is denial of intel - dampening/? - since nobody want them to have any kind of cloak bonus even though it fits.

Since Cal can share there vision maybe a gal can share its dampening within there scan range? kinda like a dampening field/precision scrambler, lol

a squad of 6 gall scouts=ninja warriors there

Everyone wants to be the Queen even though one Pawn can be the difference in winning and losing.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 19 post(s)
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 74	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:14:00 - [301] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: Xx-VxF-xX wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: So let me get this straight, The gallente scout is getting all it's ewar nerfed, specially the range while the cal;dari gets to keeps a 3% to range per level... I have never used a brick tanks and now with these changes you have just nerfed the gallente intel ewar ability to complete uselessness. I am serious the gallente scout has had the range bonus since before the changes to scouts and no one ever complained until brick tanked scouts became a thing, which means that the problem is not the scan range. The problem is and always has been brick tanked scouts and that second equipment slot which is unnecessary. Either you cloak or you don't and fit remotes or whatever. CCP this is crazy... If you dont change the brick tanking ability all you dod was make the gall scout remain more as an assault. DON"T take the scan range that it has always had now. Before 1.8 the Gal scout had the role of eWAR scanner that is now the Cal scouts job. Cal is intel gathering - precision/range Gal is denial of intel - dampening/? - since nobody want them to have any kind of cloak bonus even though it fits. Since Cal can share there vision maybe a gal can share its dampening within there scan range? kinda like a dampening field/precision scrambler, lol a squad of 6 gall scouts=ninja warriors there yeah that was my sarcasm vs the shared squad vision. Everyone wants to be the Queen even though one Pawn can be the difference in winning and losing.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1396	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:24:00 - [302] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: Before 1.8 the Gal scout had the role of eWAR scanner that is now the Cal scouts job. Cal is intel gathering - precision/range Gal is denial of intel - dampening/? - since nobody want them to have any kind of cloak bonus even though it fits. Since Cal can share there vision maybe a gal can share its dampening within there scan range? kinda like a dampening field/precision scrambler, lol TBH I am mostly mad about the changes because it really wont change anything in the meta game. The changes are too little and do not address the stats that are abused from the scouts. It's like when they nerfed logi equipment. and removed the reps per second.... while the reps per second was a good way to start the balance it is not enough for people to stop using logi's as slayer logi's. Anyways both classes , logi and assault have been overshadowed by scout and commandos so... The main issues with scouts is the second equipment slot and being able to brick tank. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
D legendary hero WarRavens Final Resolution. 1896	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:26:00 - [303] - Quote way to go. Now literally everything that is minmatar has been nerfed. Im glad im becoming caldari now. why does the combat rifle need a 2% nerf, when the galente AR is getting a 3% buff? why not just buff the GAR, and leave the combat alone? Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 846	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:32:00 - [304] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: way to go. Now literally everything that is minmatar has been nerfed. Im glad im becoming caldari now. why does the combat rifle need a 2% nerf, when the galente AR is getting a 3% buff? why not just buff the GAR, and leave the combat alone? Wat. Leave it up to the Minmatar loyalists to not think the combat rifle is OP. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:37:00 - [305] - Quote Thanks Ratatti for saving me a ton of SP. I definitly see no point in improving my adv galente scout, the bonuses are a joke now. There no point to ewar with them anymore, their only use will be as brick tanked assaults with double the equipment slots. You really should have buffed the amarr and minmatar scouts instead. Oh well another good suit bites the dust. Hard. Not gonna bother with locus grenades either. If they cant even kill a militia suit with DIRECT HIT then why bother with basic or advanced. I do wonder why you nerfed all the lower tiers of grenades and yet left the Proto ones (you know, the ones people spam the most) Reducing the timers on the cloaks means nothing if players can still shoot while invisible. Also with the damping removed did they really need to a timer nerf as well? I like some of the numbers, with the armor plates, the improvement of the plasma cannon, and the proposed damage bonus of hmg fire to vehicles, but as usual its one step forward and two steps back. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:49:00 - [306] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You're right. They aren't similar. The Cal Scout beats the crap out of the Gallente scout in regen. I'm saying, if the 3hp/s is a problem, so should the massive regen the Caldari scout has. There's no data showing that the regen on the cal makes it that amazing in competitive play. dude, 2 proto energizers out of its 5 high slots makes it rep shields at 110 hp per second. Thats more than most proto rep tools axcept the core focus. 3 would make it rep at 140 hp per second. If thats not an advantage i dont know what is. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 1169	Posted - 2014.05.26 23:17:00 - [307] - Quote Changes seem legit tho speed penalty is still too low Nemo me impune lacessit CCP - Announcing games at the same time as killing the ones you love CCP - No Credibility
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 787	Posted - 2014.05.27 01:33:00 - [308] - Quote Fears over armor reps being too strong are not without reason. Armor reps for vehicles are too strong to the point that any vehicle with a armor rep build are immune to most AV weaponry and small turret fire. The fear that problem may arise in infantry with an armor repairer buff isn't insane. Shields: low health, does not recharge if hit, high recharge rate, longer recharge delay Armor: high health, constant regeneration, low repair rate, slower movement Shield recharge rates vary from 15-50 HP/sec with most suits having a recharge rate of 20HP/sec(someone fact check this please, was too lazy to look at all suit stats and find the mode). If armor repairers preform similar or better than shields, armor repairers will effectively steal one of the few positives shield tanking has; especially when combined with the fact that armor reps work constantly. Why are armor repairers being buffed again? Medium frame EHP is not medium
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 218	Posted - 2014.05.27 03:26:00 - [309] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Taking a lot of various feedback into account, we are pulling the GA repair rate change, and improving the AR by 3%, instead of 2% Consider the numbers in the spreadsheet in green cells to be locked and loaded for Hotfix Alpha. So will you be reducing the Gallente shield regen rate since they are keeping their free armour repair mod? (Or will all other races, with fewer low slots, continue to be double penalized?) Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9955	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:50:00 - [310] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Changes seem legit tho speed penalty is still too low No, speed penalties are just fine. A single plate should not drop you OVER 9000 m/s like the old plates. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9955	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:51:00 - [311] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Fears over armor reps being too strong are not without reason. Armor reps for vehicles are too strong to the point that any vehicle with a armor rep build are immune to most AV weaponry and small turret fire. The fear that problem may arise in infantry with an armor repairer buff isn't insane. Shields: low health, does not recharge if hit, high recharge rate, longer recharge delay Armor: high health, constant regeneration, low repair rate, slower movement Shield recharge rates vary from 15-50 HP/sec with most suits having a recharge rate of 20HP/sec(someone fact check this please, was too lazy to look at all suit stats and find the mode). If armor repairers preform similar or better than shields, armor repairers will effectively steal one of the few positives shield tanking has; especially when combined with the fact that armor reps work constantly. Why are armor repairers being buffed again? Because active armor tanking is a thing, and Rattati wants to make it viable. There is no Caldari suit under 30hp/s (Maybe the logi, but I'm not sure). If you have enough HP/s to challenge a Caldari Suit, you most likely don't have the HP. If you do, you're most likely slower. But you don't have the massive HP numbers. As for tanks, the thing is that tank repairers can actually beat the damage per second of AV weaponry. No matter how many repairers you put on a suit, an STD Assault Rifle will still overpower the repair fairly easily. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9955	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:56:00 - [312] - Quote Dunce Masterson wrote: Amarr drop suit additional module slots; under review WTF there is no need to review this the Amarr basic and Assault suit need to have the same amount of module slots has the rest for game balance just add another low slot from militia to prototype also increase the PG and CPU to handle the new low slot. Amarr Sentinel Rail Rifle damage resistance to Armor instead of shields in the hotfix you will make a lot of players who play EVE online very happy that the Dust 514 races are still like the EVE online races. 15% damage resistance to projectile weapons to armor. 10% damage resistance to hybrid rail weapons to armor. you can keep the gallente the same no one will care. There is no need to increase the CPU/PG with the addition of the slot. Amarr already have the highest CPU/PG of all assault/basic suits. They actually rival logistics suits, which are known for their absurd CPU/PG. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 826	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:34:00 - [313] - Quote Rattati, I think the huge nerfs to standard and advanced locus grenades are counterproductive and break Dust's game design conventions to no good purpose. Obligatory link to me showing my reasoning Dust/Eve transfers
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 851	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:45:00 - [314] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Rattati, I think the huge nerfs to standard and advanced locus grenades are counterproductive and break Dust's game design conventions to no good purpose. Obligatory link to me showing my reasoning Completely agree. Would have much preferred a nerf to basic, keep advanced the same while nerfing proto damage by ~100 and cutting the price and fitting costs. Feel free to check out my website for some lulz :D \| TDBS
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 38	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:56:00 - [315] - Quote Excellent, Just excellent. Go Go Go deploy the hot fix. I am eager to try it. The one thibg I am not convinced about is the nanites needed for a granade. It will directly affect the restock of bullets. The nanohives will be very fast depleted and thi will affect the weapons significantly.
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 789	Posted - 2014.05.27 06:23:00 - [316] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Because active armor tanking is a thing, and Rattati wants to make it viable. There is no Caldari suit under 30hp/s (Maybe the logi, but I'm not sure). If you have enough HP/s to challenge a Caldari Suit, you most likely don't have the HP. If you do, you're most likely slower. But you don't have the massive HP numbers. As for tanks, the thing is that tank repairers can actually beat the damage per second of AV weaponry. No matter how many repairers you put on a suit, an STD Assault Rifle will still overpower the repair fairly easily. Just did some digging and your right, going for a pure armor rep fit would sacrifice much HP while shield tankers don't. There are current methods to out rep damaged received, but you're probably right in that armor repairers could not do it alone. Medium frame EHP is not medium

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1878	Posted - 2014.05.27 06:54:00 - [317] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Rattati, I think the huge nerfs to standard and advanced locus grenades are counterproductive and break Dust's game design conventions to no good purpose. Obligatory link to me showing my reasoning Completely agree. Would have much preferred a nerf to basic, keep advanced the same while nerfing proto damage by ~100 and cutting the price and fitting costs. My reasoning was straightforward and based on relative hp per frame. I think it's lazy and cheap to spam two basic grenades and basically OHK anything, even heavies. The general population never, and has never migrated from the basic grenade because it's enough. And that goes against everything I think dust is about. I however, noticed a typo, proto was supposed to stay the same. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

J'Hiera Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 65	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:10:00 - [318] - Quote I like that you seem to be tweaking the Gal Scout, not rearranging it. I can live with that. Yes, o'omnipresent authority figure?
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 827	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:29:00 - [319] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My reasoning was straightforward and based on relative hp per frame. I think it's lazy and cheap to spam two basic grenades and basically OHK anything, even heavies. The general population never, and has never migrated from the basic grenade because it's enough. And that goes against everything I think dust is about. I however, noticed a typo, proto was supposed to stay the same. So, basic grenades are OP because you spend 900 ISK and throw two grenades with a five second delay and kill someone, but a standard assault rifle is not OP for the same capability? And remotes are also okay for the same capability? But if those same grenades cost 20k or so for core locus, it would be okay, in contrast to prototype assault rifles that get only a tiny bit better for the 47k they cost. I suspect there will be a lot of blueprint suits with core locus grenades and nano hives in my future. Dust/Eve transfers
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 130	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:31:00 - [320] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think it's lazy and cheap to spam two basic grenades and basically OHK anything, even heavies. The general population never, and has never migrated from the basic grenade because it's enough. And that goes against everything I think dust is about. I however, noticed a typo, proto was supposed to stay the same. Sorry to call you out on this but you are outright lying. Its mathmeatically impossible for 2 standard grenades or advanced to kill to OHK (Two hit Kill?) a basic heavy, especialy now that heavies have a built in resistence to resistance to explovies in the first place Only 2 proto grenades can do this, and the reason people with proto nades spam them is because they OHK the majority medium and light suits. Yet you don't consider it lazy to OHK the rest at all. People havent migrated from advanced because it is not worth spending antoher 720,000 sp just to equip two core focus grenades. its much more usefull and less SP intensive to invest in PROTO light weapons, sidearms and heavy weapons than to risk it all on two grenades. Whats going against what 'dust is all about' is nerfing good weapons that gives std/ adv suit players a fighting chance against proto. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

The-Errorist SVER True Blood 724	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:28:00 - [321] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ... I do not believe contact grenades need a nerf. They're already barely used, further reductions in damage are unnecessary. ... Contact grenades are barely used because they are only available for AUR and not ISK. In the spreadsheet, they currently deal the same amount of damage as regular grenades of the same teir, which, in my opinion, is not right. The easiest grenade type to spam shouldn't do as much damage as one that takes more skill to use. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
The Eristic Dust 90210 460	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:05:00 - [322] - Quote I don't think I've seen a single contact grenade in the kill feed since the nerf. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 349	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:02:00 - [323] - Quote yay. assault rifle might actually be king of cqc rifle combat. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1401	Posted - 2014.05.27 12:33:00 - [324] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ... I do not believe contact grenades need a nerf. They're already barely used, further reductions in damage are unnecessary. ... Contact grenades are barely used because they are only available for AUR and not ISK. In the spreadsheet, they currently deal the same amount of damage as regular grenades of the same teir, which, in my opinion, is not right. The easiest grenade type to spam shouldn't do as much damage as one that takes more skill to use. Thukker contact are proto and not aurum grenades... Just clarifying. I also thgink the thukker contact grenades didnt need a nerf in damage. Their fitting costs, only being able to have 1 and the fact that you need max grenade skill is enough to have kept it where it was. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3977	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:27:00 - [325] - Quote I wish REs would suffer a similar fate as locus grenades. I don't think there is a deadlier, cheap SP investment in the game. Level 3 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 416	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:25:00 - [326] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wish REs would suffer a similar fate as locus grenades. I don't think there is a deadlier, cheap SP investment in the game. agreed. op XD Support Balancing scouts
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 416	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:52:00 - [327] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Fears over armor reps being too strong are not without reason. Armor reps for vehicles are too strong to the point that any vehicle with a armor rep build are immune to most AV weaponry and small turret fire. The fear that problem may arise in infantry with an armor repairer buff isn't insane. Shields: low health, does not recharge if hit, high recharge rate, longer recharge delay Armor: high health, constant regeneration, low repair rate, slower movement Shield recharge rates vary from 15-50 HP/sec with most suits having a recharge rate of 20HP/sec(someone fact check this please, was too lazy to look at all suit stats and find the mode). If armor repairers preform similar or better than shields, armor repairers will effectively steal one of the few positives shield tanking has; especially when combined with the fact that armor reps work constantly. Why are armor repairers being buffed again? because it takes like 3 to tie a shield guys regen (on a gall assault, that leaves 1 slot for amor, The shield recharge doesn't require a slot. So they can still shield tank/energize and have natural reps :p Support Balancing scouts

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1888	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:10:00 - [328] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Rattati, I think the huge nerfs to standard and advanced locus grenades are counterproductive and break Dust's game design conventions to no good purpose. Obligatory link to me showing my reasoning I don't, and if you draw up dmg/cap (pg+cpu) invested, the new curve is much more reasonable, in my honest opinion and in line with most damage curves in Dust 514. Given my other reasoning that I linked to, I firmly have two feet to stand on, on the issue. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

nicholas73 Glitched Connection 143	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:13:00 - [329] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Rattati, I think the huge nerfs to standard and advanced locus grenades are counterproductive and break Dust's game design conventions to no good purpose. Obligatory link to me showing my reasoning I don't, and if you draw up dmg/cap (pg+cpu) invested, the new curve is much more reasonable, in my honest opinion and in line with most damage curves in Dust 514. Given my other reasoning that I linked to, I firmly have two feet to stand on, on the issue. I was surprised too but I'm backing CCP Rattati on this one. We can't know unless we try it out. Theme Song The forums is my playground.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 295	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:41:00 - [330] - Quote Its good to see lot of changes coming around, I would like to see most of this implemented soon. I do feel that shields tanking and assault classes could use little bit of love given how good Armour tanking is. My suggestions- Assault Classes bonus are fine, but give them all base stat increases so scouts have to use flanking tactics like they do with heavier classes. If increasing base stats is asking too much maybe an increase in a module slot? food for thought. Shield tanking probably could use an increase from 22/33/66 to 22/44/77 so the enhanced shields extenders have more purpose in the game. This would probably increase the player bases that want to shield tank, which would increase the scrambler rifle and laser rifle player base as well. I for the most part am pretty happy to see most of the changes coming around, but I still think Assault classes feel out of place given how the Commando and the scout classes have made them seem obsolete.



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