prototype grenades to do 650 damage !!!!
Is this a typo?

We need a reason to specialize in grenades and the thought process was something along these lines, based on no additional ehp:

1) Standard kills all scouts and a few medium frames
2) Advanced kills all medium frames except the highest hp, Amarr at 360 hp
3) Prototype kills all commando frames except the highest hp, Amarr at 680 hp
4) Packed Advanced kills all commandos and hurts sentinels, but at the cost of area damage radius

Gallente Scout Repair rate-3hp/s
Amarr Scout Repair rate+3hp/s

Dropships are already basically invulnerable to Swarms as it is, sooooooo..... wtf. They can fly faster than the Swarms travel and outrun them, they can fly higher than a Swarm can ever hope to lock, and furthermore on the last point Swarms have such pathetic lock range that Dropships can basically just act like they don't exist.

Thank you for the reply. I would like to point out that not only do they have less slots, they start out with mostly high slots at lower tiers (militia basic medium frame, standard assault), and possess equal high and low slots at higher tiers; this does not make sense for an Armor-tanking race.
The Amarr logi at higher tiers suffer from a slot deficiency as well when compared to other racial logis of the same tier. Compare a proto Amarr logi to a proto logi from any race, and it will be apparant. Some would argue its a tradeoff for the sidearm, but that doesn't make sense; Amarr logi have less equipment as a tradeoff for the sidearm, but why do they also need less module slots?
There is also the issue of why do logis have more module slots at higher tier than assaults anyway? it allows them to more tan makeup for their lower base HP and be better slayers than assaults.
There is also the lesser known issue of how much logis suck at standard tier when you look at their module slots, and compare them to assaults.

I have an old thread [ > > THIS THREAD HERE < < ] on the subject of medium frames, assaults, and logistics that covers.

The Amarr slot layouts are not the only ones that don't racially make sense.

The module slot gap between tiers for medium frames; it is MUCH higher for mediums than any other frame size, especially for logistics; logis start out just horrible in module slots at standard tier, less than their assault counterparts (except Amarr logi), yet progress to have more module slots than assaults at higher tiers.

The module slot deficiency between Amarr mediums (NOT just assaults, basics, and logis as well) other race's medium dropsuits; for the logi, one could make the argument that less module slots (at higher tiers) than other logis is payment for sidearm, but the Amarr logi also sacrifices equipment slots compared to the Gallente and Minmatar logis.

The assaults at higher tiers are inferior to logistics a higher tiers because of difference in module slot count.

I would like a complete medium frame overhaul that will achieve the following:

All medium frames, including the logistics, will be viable at lower tiers.

All assaults will be preferable for the job of slaying at higher tiers when compared to logistics.

The first 2 points can be achieved by not only equalizing module slots between assaults and logis at all tiers, but also equalizing the specific slot layout as well.

Fixing the Amarr slot deficiency.

Racially consistent slot layouts.

The module slot gap between high and low tiers being consistent with other frame sizes; each tier increments module slots by 1, not 2 or more. This would if proto has 8 module slots, advanced has 7, and standard has 6. If instead proto instead has 7 module slots, then it would mean advanced has 6, and standard has 5.

Its kind of more complicated than that because of the craziness of the Caldari logi (starts out absolute worst standard tier both in modules and equipment, then gets a whopping 9 module slots at prototype, while other logis have 7 or 8), but its all covered in my thread. I strongly encourage you reading my thread, I put a lot of thought into it, and I tried to be as thorough as possible.

The end result of what I want is that assaults and logis of the same race and tier have the same module slot layout, and module slot count. At each higher tier, the module slots increment by 1; for example, if they start with 6 module slots at standard, then at advanced they will both have 7, and at prototype they will both have 8. The equal slots will allow the higher base HP of the assault to actually matter. Assaults are be more mobile, will have slightly higher HP ceiling (because of the currently higher base HP). The logistics have the 2-3 more equipment slots for higher utility.

Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction.

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I do not believe contact grenades need a nerf. They're already barely used, further reductions in damage are unnecessary.

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Thukker contact are proto and not aurum grenades... Just clarifying.

I also think the thukker contact grenades didnt need a nerf in damage. Their fitting costs, only being able to have 1, the fact that you need max grenade skill and the pricepoint is enough to have kept it where it was.

The fused on the other hand where a big problem when they had more damage than the proto variant and then they "homogenized" contanct grenades through the tiers giving them all the same damage and fitting costs even though the fused needed no skill prerequisites.

I think the Thukker should have stayed at 400 or maybe even gotten the damage raised to 500 while the fused which is aurum should have been lowered to proposed levels

BTW the contact grenades section in the market is empty, I suggest adding the standard and advanced isk variants to the market and adding them there.

Also a Contact flux would be nice; just saying

Erm looking at the cloak-shot delay it says that its 0.5 secs at the moment. The proposed change is to be set at 1 sec. Is it just me or are you just simply increasing the time that it takes to swap from the cloak (your arm) to a gun? If thats the case then you affect every 1 increasing the weapon swap time cause i assume that the swap time is just a fix number which works for everything. Like changing from a primary to a sidearm or equipment.

thanks Rintitin but these nerfs are useless.... RIP min.scout....

PS we want respec then....