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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
   |
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
835
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense.
By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer.
So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced.
Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%.
Fixing swarms
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2257
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
835
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP.
No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
Fixing swarms
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3016
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Really tired of all other scout suits trying to throw Gallente under the bus.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3017
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
Yeah, you only have to not run kincats,cardio, range amps or hacking mods to do it!
Lows are a scouts blood, if someone wants to disappear it's going to cost them somewhere else. Gallente can do it easier, but it still doesn't mean we aren't gimping ourselves in someway.
Not to mention that no other scout besides the Caldari can get crazy high scan precision.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1460
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%.
Not trolling :
4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout
but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked... |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2259
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
Exactly. Those suits aren't specialized in dampning, so you guys will have to sacrifice more to get under it. I don't know anyone who uses the Minmatar or the Amarr to dampen... Amarr is armor/endurance and Minmatar is speed/skirmisher. |
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP.
Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think!
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
castba
Penguin's March
373
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Feels like the rich complaining that they should be richer... |
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Sana Rayya
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
1321
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's fine. The Gallente might not be scannable, but the Caldari sees a LOT more, including most other non-Gallente scouts.
To be completely unscannable as a Gallente you need either two complex dampeners or one complex + activated cloak. As a non-Gallente you need two complex and an active cloak, so the difference is only a single slot.
However, no scout can go below 21dB in precision except for the Caldari (Minmatar can get 21dB, but Gallente/Amarr are stuck at 24dB). That's a big advantage that only the Caldari has. |
Duke Noobiam
Nyain Chan
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here is the math...
Caldari Scout precision calculation:
(Base * max passive bonus * max cal bonus)
40 * .9 * .75 = 27
(Base * max passive bonus * max cal bonus * complex precision)
40 * .9 * .75 * .80 = 21.6
(Base * max passive bonus * max cal bonus * complex precision * complex precision with penalty)
40 * .9 * .75 * .80 * .82.6 = 17.84
Galente scout profile calculations:
(Base * max passive bonus * max gal bonus)
35 * .9 * .75 = 23.62
(Base * max passive bonus * max gal bonus * cloak or complex precision)
35 * .9 * .75 * .75 = 17.71
(Base * max passive bonus * max gal bonus * complex precision * complex precision with penalty)
35 * .9 * .75 * .75 * .7825 = 13.86
(Base * max passive bonus * max gal bonus * complex precision * Cloaked)
35 * .9 * .75 * .75 * .75 = 13.28
Other scouts
(Base * max passive bonus)
35 * .9 = 31.5
(Base * max passive bonus * cloaked or complex precision)
35 * .9 * .75 = 23.62
(Base * max passive bonus * complex precision * cloaked)
35 * .9 * .75 * .75 = 17.71
Scanning will detect anyone whos profile is greater or equal to the precision of the scanner. I'm not sure if decimal points are considered for this or if the numbers are rounded.
How do you kill that which has no life?
|
Shutter Fly
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
319
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. Not trolling : 4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked...
NO. This is completely wrong. Don't go saying this stuff if you haven't done the math.
A gallente scout (all relevant skills maxed) with 1 complex PD and 1 enhanced PD will evade absolutely all possible scans. When cloaked, 1 enhanced dampener will have the same effect.
That being said, I think precision and dampening mods should have the same efficacy. Due to the way the profile/precision mechanics work, one has to ultimately beat the other, and I think dampening should stay in that position. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2263
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think!
Lol no u |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
838
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Yeah, you only have to not run kincats,cardio, range amps or hacking mods to do it! Lows are a scouts blood, if someone wants to disappear it's going to cost them somewhere else. Gallente can do it easier, but it still doesn't mean we aren't gimping ourselves in someway. Not to mention that no other scout besides the Caldari can get crazy high scan precision.
So I sit here and say "you can beat a cal scout who sacrifices 4 module slotsand has a bonus dedicated to scanning, by using 3 module slots and the manditory cloak on a non-bonused suit"
and you think... "man that non-bonused suit is really sacrificing."
You do see the disconnect there right?
Fixing swarms
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
4219
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
I love Shield tanking
So for me, Cal is the best.
To heck with armor tanking, I don't wanna be slow. I would much rather be a fast shield tanker with good eWAR capabilities than a slow invisible armor tanker.
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Exactly. Those suits aren't specialized in dampning, so you guys will have to sacrifice more to get under it. I don't know anyone who uses the Minmatar or the Amarr to dampen... Amarr is armor/endurance and Minmatar is speed/skirmisher.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web&pli=1&pli=1
Obviously you have no friggen clue what your saying.
Two damps and the gal is ghost to everything, plus two armor an two shields sitting aprox 600 ehp, cal scout can't even find you with 4 enh, so where u got that from I have no clue
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2263
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Exactly. Those suits aren't specialized in dampning, so you guys will have to sacrifice more to get under it. I don't know anyone who uses the Minmatar or the Amarr to dampen... Amarr is armor/endurance and Minmatar is speed/skirmisher. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web&pli=1&pli=1Obviously you have no friggen clue what your saying. Two damps and the gal is ghost to everything, plus two armor an two shields sitting aprox 600 ehp, cal scout can't even find you with 4 enh, so where u got that from I have no clue
What are you replying to...?
That makes no sense to my post. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
838
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shutter Fly wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. Not trolling : 4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked... NO. This is completely wrong. Don't go saying this stuff if you haven't done the math. A gallente scout (all relevant skills maxed) with 1 complex PD and 1 enhanced PD will evade absolutely all possible scans. When cloaked, 1 enhanced dampener will have the same effect. That being said, I think precision and dampening mods should have the same efficacy. Due to the way the profile/precision mechanics work, one has to ultimately beat the other, and I think dampening should stay in that position.
Thanks for addressing that, I didn't see that post.
IT is amazing the B.S. people claim without doing any math at all right?
Here have a Chart
Fixing swarms
|
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Exactly. Those suits aren't specialized in dampning, so you guys will have to sacrifice more to get under it. I don't know anyone who uses the Minmatar or the Amarr to dampen... Amarr is armor/endurance and Minmatar is speed/skirmisher. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web&pli=1&pli=1Obviously you have no friggen clue what your saying. Two damps and the gal is ghost to everything, plus two armor an two shields sitting aprox 600 ehp, cal scout can't even find you with 4 enh, so where u got that from I have no clue What are you replying to...? That makes no sense to my post.
Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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|
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1460
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shutter Fly wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. Not trolling : 4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked... NO. This is completely wrong. Don't go saying this stuff if you haven't done the math. A gallente scout (all relevant skills maxed) with 1 complex PD and 1 enhanced PD will evade absolutely all possible scans. When cloaked, 1 enhanced dampener will have the same effect. That being said, I think precision and dampening mods should have the same efficacy. Due to the way the profile/precision mechanics work, one has to ultimately beat the other, and I think dampening should stay in that position.
I tested against my own corpmate 
How do you think i decided what to run in my suits?!
- My cal scout with full core skills + Complex PE = picks up most regular scouts
- Cal scout + Core skills + 3 Complex PE = 2 Complex damp Gal scout on minimap
- Cal Scout + Core Skills + 4 PE = 3 Complex dampened gal scout
I run 1-2 Complex range amplifiers on all of these suits...
4 complex gal scout can't be scanned with anything... But tbh a gal scout willing to put 4 complex dampeners wins my vote
Do the math and try it out yourself... Your corpmate wont shoot you |
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Shutter Fly wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. Not trolling : 4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked... NO. This is completely wrong. Don't go saying this stuff if you haven't done the math. A gallente scout (all relevant skills maxed) with 1 complex PD and 1 enhanced PD will evade absolutely all possible scans. When cloaked, 1 enhanced dampener will have the same effect. That being said, I think precision and dampening mods should have the same efficacy. Due to the way the profile/precision mechanics work, one has to ultimately beat the other, and I think dampening should stay in that position. I tested against my own corpmate How do you think i decided what to run in my suits?! - My cal scout with full core skills + Complex PE = picks up most regular scouts - Cal scout + Core skills + 3 Complex PE = 2 Complex damp Gal scout on minimap - Cal Scout + Core Skills + 4 PE = 3 Complex dampened gal scout I run 1-2 Complex range amplifiers on all of these suits... 4 complex gal scout can't be scanned with anything... But tbh a gal scout willing to put 4 complex dampeners wins my vote Do the math and try it out yourself... Your corpmate wont shoot you
According to this
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web&pli=1&pli=1
It doesn't.
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2265
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining.
The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat.
You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me.
God forbid your suit gets an actual counter :o |
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
198
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think!
I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits.
But in any case, they're evensies, because:
Gallente
35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23)
40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04)
Caldari
35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72)
40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28)
So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied.
That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1460
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Please try it yourself... Don't listen to anyone... Just try it out yourself... |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
838
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think! I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits. But in any case, they're evensies, because: Gallente35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04) Caldari35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28) So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied. That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation.
Your math is wrong, every module after the first of the same type have stacking penalties. Also many more math errors occur in your post. Just look at the graph I posted on the previous page, all the work has been done.
Fixing swarms
|
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3018
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Yeah, you only have to not run kincats,cardio, range amps or hacking mods to do it! Lows are a scouts blood, if someone wants to disappear it's going to cost them somewhere else. Gallente can do it easier, but it still doesn't mean we aren't gimping ourselves in someway. Not to mention that no other scout besides the Caldari can get crazy high scan precision. So I sit here and say "you can beat a cal scout who sacrifices 4 module slotsand has a bonus dedicated to scanning, by using 3 module slots and the manditory cloak on a non-bonused suit" and you think... "man that non-bonused suit is really sacrificing." You do see the disconnect there right?
Isn't that the cloaks problem then? I'd be fine if they got rid of it honestly.
You can see everything and anything with or without a single mod. Once you put 1 or 2 you can spot everything except gal scouts or other scouts who have to sacrifice valuable low slots just to get away from you built in passive scans. Being able to see everyone at all times is better then hiding. Why? Because nobody runs scanners anymore and most scouts(besides Cal) don't bother with precision mods. Mediums or heavies will never, ever be able to see you.
The high slot has 1 valuable mod for scouts, precision. Your not really "sacrificing" anything to run them.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2267
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think! I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits. But in any case, they're evensies, because: Gallente35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04) Caldari35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28) So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied. That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully now they'll be enlightened. Forgot the stacking penalty, though. Either way, the end result is more or less the same. |
Duke Noobiam
Nyain Chan
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think! I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits. But in any case, they're evensies, because: Gallente35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04) Caldari35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28) So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied. That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation.
nevermind
How do you kill that which has no life?
|
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter 
IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS!
It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible.
And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool!
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
|
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. Yeah, you only have to not run kincats,cardio, range amps or hacking mods to do it! Lows are a scouts blood, if someone wants to disappear it's going to cost them somewhere else. Gallente can do it easier, but it still doesn't mean we aren't gimping ourselves in someway. Not to mention that no other scout besides the Caldari can get crazy high scan precision. So I sit here and say "you can beat a cal scout who sacrifices 4 module slotsand has a bonus dedicated to scanning, by using 3 module slots and the manditory cloak on a non-bonused suit" and you think... "man that non-bonused suit is really sacrificing." You do see the disconnect there right? Isn't that the cloaks problem then? I'd be fine if they got rid of it honestly. You can see everything and anything with or without a single mod. Once you put 1 or 2 you can spot everything except gal scouts or other scouts who have to sacrifice valuable low slots just to get away from you built in passive scans. Being able to see everyone at all times is better then hiding. Why? Because nobody runs scanners anymore and most scouts(besides Cal) don't bother with precision mods. Mediums or heavies will never, ever be able to see you. The high slot has 1 valuable mod for scouts, precision. Your not really "sacrificing" anything to run them.
So extenders aren't helpful? Especially considering the INSANE shield recharge and depleted timers on scouts? No, shield on a scout >>>>> armor on a scout. One shield mod give you 72 eHP and no speed penalty.
Low slots you have hacking, kincats and plates
High slots you have precision enhancers, extenders and damage mods (lol)
Fixing swarms
|
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
199
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think! I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits. But in any case, they're evensies, because: Gallente35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04) Caldari35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28) So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied. That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation. Your math is wrong, every module after the first of the same type have stacking penalties. Also many more math errors occur in your post. Just look at the graph I posted on the previous page, all the work has been done.
My bad, brosaphine--by all means, please show me your numbers. Graphs don't do the trick for me--I'm not really a visual learner.
Last I checked, damps and enhancers don't receive stacking penalties--at least, their descriptions don't say so (like they do for damage mods, shield hardeners, etc.). Stacking penalties or no, it works out the same--the suits are mutually invisible to each other.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
|
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2267
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool!
I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples.
If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1460
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
My bad, brosaphine--by all means, please show me your numbers. Graphs don't do the trick for me--I'm not really a visual learner.
Last I checked, damps and enhancers don't receive stacking penalties--at least, their descriptions don't say so (like they do for damage mods, shield hardeners, etc.). Stacking penalties or no, it works out the same--the suits are mutually invisible to each other.[/quote]
Anyone who says PE and RA has stacking penalties is an Idiot or I'm blind (Cause i didn't see in in the description) LOL |
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Stfu troll I'm not whining and I have both suits, I'm askin what people think! I dunno, sounds like whining to me; Joel II X was just pointing out that the Cal scout suit is not without its merits. But in any case, they're evensies, because: Gallente35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 24db (rounding up from 23.04) Caldari35db [base profile] * .9 [10% level 5 dampening bonus] * .75 [25% complex dampener bonus] * .75 [second dampener] = 14db (rounding up from 13.23) = 18db (rounding up from 17.72) 40db [base precision] * .9 [10% level 5 precision bonus] * .75 [25% level 5 suit bonus] * .8 [20% complex precision enhancer bonus] * .8 [second PE] = 18db (rounding up from 17.28) So, assuming max skills and equal number of relevant modules, both suits are invisible to each other. And since, as Joel II X and many others have recently pointed out, not every Gal scout and Cal scout are fit the same or even necessarily for EWAR (brick scouts, anyone?), the battlefield conditions are even more varied. That's how it works: you gotta hope that your strategy, as applied to a given battlefield situation, trumps your enemy's more than their's is likely to trump yours. That's the whole point of the fitting system, and it's where actual gameplay skills factor into the equation.
It's not sacrificing anything, proto cloak and a caldari needs 3 percision enh how is that equal? Every scout runs cloak so a gal right there wins, it has 6 slots to fill, a cal lost 3, a gal puts on 1 damp and a active cloak and he's gone off radar.
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1460
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter... |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3019
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it...
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
Lol k troll champ you win
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter...
You and Joel dating yet?
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2192
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool!
Now you know how its like....
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1461
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 15:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter... You and Joel dating yet?
I guess you are a plain idiot :) |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2268
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! I debated my part, and then you get mad and start twisting your nipples. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter... You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad  |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:
My bad, brosaphine--by all means, please show me your numbers. Graphs don't do the trick for me--I'm not really a visual learner.
Last I checked, damps and enhancers don't receive stacking penalties--at least, their descriptions don't say so (like they do for damage mods, shield hardeners, etc.). Stacking penalties or no, it works out the same--the suits are mutually invisible to each other.
actually, it doesn't work out the same. The caldari suit could fit 4 precision enhancers, only to be countered by 1 cloak and 1 damp on a gallente scout, this of course leaves the gallente scout 3 low-slots to play with, while being perfectly immune to the caldari. Or hey, why not two dampeners and a cloak on a minmatar suit or an amarrian suit, also perfectly immune to a 4 complex precision caldari scout.
lol, you think that's balanced, that is cute. In your little scenerio, this means that while being mutually invisible, the gallente suit will have more HP, more speed, more reps, and/or more stamina than the caldari suit. balanced.....
If you do not fit 1 complex dampener on a gal suit, you are just dumb.
If you can not read a graph, numbers will do little to help you as well.
Fixing swarms
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! Now you know how its like....
Not really, I am a scout, have all the suits and I'm just posting something simple that only attracted the attention of gal scouts that are scared everyone's gonna see that the cal or enh need tweaking , it's not the same as ripping on you for totally botching a challenge and bragging on a video against mtl noobs.
Nice try tho brah!
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:CRNWLLC wrote:
My bad, brosaphine--by all means, please show me your numbers. Graphs don't do the trick for me--I'm not really a visual learner.
Last I checked, damps and enhancers don't receive stacking penalties--at least, their descriptions don't say so (like they do for damage mods, shield hardeners, etc.). Stacking penalties or no, it works out the same--the suits are mutually invisible to each other.
actually, it doesn't work out the same. The caldari suit could fit 4 precision enhancers, only to be countered by 1 cloak and 1 damp on a gallente scout, this of course leaves the gallente scout 3 low-slots to play with, while being perfectly immune to the caldari. Or hey, why not two dampeners and a cloak on a minmatar suit or an amarrian suit, also perfectly immune to a 4 complex precision caldari scout. lol, you think that's balanced, that is cute. In your little scenerio, this means that while being mutually invisible, the gallente suit will have more HP, more speed, more reps, and/or more stamina than the caldari suit. balanced..... If you do not fit 1 complex dampener on a gal suit, you are just dumb. If you can not read a graph, numbers will do little to help you as well.
Finally we agree on something lol=ƒæì
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
139
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it...
Look, your post here is just oozing dumb.
In one post you say you have the only way to fit a scout suit, and that everyone else is wrong. I don't even know where to begin other than saying that you are not interested in a conversation, just spouting your own misguided beliefs.
If you don't fit a damp, then everyone who fits precision enhancers will see you (rounded to 18 dB w/ cloak, precision is alos rounded to 18dB w/ 2 complex modules)
cal scout's precision is 27 (40*0.9*0.75=how to math)
Just stop, you are sounding like an idiot.
Fixing swarms
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3021
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it... Look, your post here is just oozing dumb. In one post you say you have the only way to fit a scout suit, and that everyone else is wrong. I don't even know where to begin other than saying that you are not interested in a conversation, just spouting your own misguided beliefs. If you don't fit a damp, then everyone who fits precision enhancers will see you (rounded to 24 dB w/ cloak, precision is alos rounded to 24dB w/ 2 complex modules) cal scout's precision is 27 (40*0.9*0.75=how to math) Just stop, you are sounding like an idiot.
You made no argument, just insulted me and said my math is wrong. Seriously, you never even tried to counter the fact that the Gal bonus is good for 2 things(really only 1 now) and the Cal bonus is better in general.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
638
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:[Quote=DEZKA DIABLO]Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter... You and Joel dating yet? I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad
You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1463
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it... Look, your post here is just oozing dumb. In one post you say you have the only way to fit a scout suit, and that everyone else is wrong. I don't even know where to begin other than saying that you are not interested in a conversation, just spouting your own misguided beliefs. If you don't fit a damp, then everyone who fits precision enhancers will see you (rounded to 24 dB w/ cloak, precision is alos rounded to 24dB w/ 2 complex modules) cal scout's precision is 27 (40*0.9*0.75=how to math) Just stop, you are sounding like an idiot.
Do you even Scout?! Or are you one of those people who like to throw numbers without actually trying it out. I am a Proto Cal scout with all Core skills to 5 and i can fight a gal scout with 2-3 dampeners... Try it out moron... |
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
638
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Welp thanks for trashing my thread, see ya in a few hours.
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1463
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too.
Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1463
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
"#49Posted: 2014.04.15 16:17 | Report
Like
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
NAV HIV wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
[Quote=DEZKA DIABLO]Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining.
If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter...
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad Ugh
You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?"
DEZKA DIABLO |
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
200
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It's not sacrificing anything, proto cloak and a caldari needs 3 percision enh how is that equal? Every scout runs cloak so a gal right there wins, it has 6 slots to fill, a cal lost 3, a gal puts on 1 damp and a active cloak and he's gone off radar.
Advanced Gal scout is my primary suit, and I have never touched a cloak (seriously--I haven't even tried them). Radar invisibility worked great pre-1.8, and it still does the trick. I prefer to use my equipment slots for DUs and REs. I also devote both highs to complex PEs and two lows to complex PDs. That leaves me one low slot to play around with after EWAR tanking my suit (two, on the <1% of spawns I run proto). Oh, the places I'll go!
As you say, the cloak dampening bonus is only granted when the cloak is activated, unlike the passive PE and PD bonuses I was talking about, so it's not that great considering it requires taking the time do activate the cloak, which also entails being weaponless for the duration of its activity. I'm not a fan of cloaks, and I think the PD bonus they grant is unnecessary, but cloaks definitely have their drawbacks.
Also, it's important to remember that we've been using extreme examples--assuming max skills across the board and 2+ stacked PEs/PDs. This is not what most folks are running, and is precisely why the Cal scout is totally adequate--it has no problem finding Min or Amarr scouts, or 60%+ of the Gal scouts out there (those brick tanking hacks  --JK, fit your suits how you please!).
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
176
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:
Not trolling :
4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout
but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked...
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts. All of these arguments are factoring in end game stats. I have been a scout for 7 months and I still don't have complex range, dampening OR precision. |
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
638
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It's not sacrificing anything, proto cloak and a caldari needs 3 percision enh how is that equal? Every scout runs cloak so a gal right there wins, it has 6 slots to fill, a cal lost 3, a gal puts on 1 damp and a active cloak and he's gone off radar. Advanced Gal scout is my primary suit, and I have never touched a cloak (seriously--I haven't even tried them). Radar invisibility worked great pre-1.8, and it still does the trick. I prefer to use my equipment slots for DUs and REs. I also devote both highs to complex PEs and two lows to complex PDs. That leaves me one low slot to play around with after EWAR tanking my suit (two, on the <1% of spawns I run proto). Oh, the places I'll go! As you say, the cloak dampening bonus is only granted when the cloak is activated, unlike the passive PE and PD bonuses I was talking about, so it's not that great considering it requires taking the time do activate the cloak, which also entails being weaponless for the duration of its activity. I'm not a fan of cloaks, and I think the PD bonus they grant is unnecessary, but cloaks definitely have their drawbacks. Also, it's important to remember that we've been using extreme examples--assuming max skills across the board and 2+ stacked PEs/PDs. This is not what most folks are running, and is precisely why the Cal scout is totally adequate--it has no problem finding Min or Amarr scouts, or 60%+ of the Gal scouts out there (those brick tanking hacks --JK, fit your suits how you please!).
When I make a post I always think of PC not pubs, the balance should always be based on pc and not pubs, which makes the gal the only needed full time pc scout, I switch to others for certain jobs but always back to the gal, because nothing can find it
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?!
I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:NAV HIV wrote:
Not trolling :
4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout
but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked...
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts. All of these arguments are factoring in end game stats. I have been a scout for 7 months and I still don't have complex range, dampening OR precision.
Exactly... I run 3-4 PEs in my suit setup... Please tell me how many Gal scouts with 3-4 dampeners are there ?! All these crying from people is irritating... Currently almost every suit has it's counter and Every suit has some uniqueness to it... The problem is people want their Own suits to counter every other suits... You can try fitting it with adequate modules, but with modules alone it shouldn't be cal scout = gal scout or cal logi = gal logi... Then there would be no point in speccing into different suits or weapons for that matter.... Everyone would run 1 suit and 1 weapon...
Stop the QQ and start the experiment... |
DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
638
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:"#49Posted: 2014.04.15 16:17 | Report
Like
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
NAV HIV wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
[Quote=DEZKA DIABLO]Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining.
If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter...
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad Ugh
You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?"
DEZKA DIABLO
Can't afford me, besides I ll bet with how tuff you talk your trying to make up for the 3 inches you don't like to talk about, it's ok tho we u
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank.
1 profile damp
1 RA
2-3 PE
1 or no extenders.
total EHP 250-320 (Armor shield combined)
Wouldn't exactly call it a tanked suit... Even starter fits have better EHP than that lol |
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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
372
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
My scout is actually built around hunting caldari scouts.
2 complex dampeners and a complex kincat and cloak. Weapon is whatever I pick at the time but tends to be scrambler pistols or breach shotgun.
Dedicated Stealth Scout.
Scout instructor; Learning Coalition
Scrambler pistols are still lethal.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:NAV HIV wrote:"#49Posted: 2014.04.15 16:17 | Report
Like
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
NAV HIV wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
[Quote=DEZKA DIABLO]Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining.
If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter...
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad Ugh
You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?"
DEZKA DIABLO Can't afford me, besides I ll bet with how tuff you talk your trying to make up for the 3 inches you don't like to talk about, it's ok tho we u
Didn't know you bend for cash... But it's ok. We are not juddemental |
JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it... Look, your post here is just oozing dumb. In one post you say you have the only way to fit a scout suit, and that everyone else is wrong. I don't even know where to begin other than saying that you are not interested in a conversation, just spouting your own misguided beliefs. If you don't fit a damp, then everyone who fits precision enhancers will see you (rounded to 24 dB w/ cloak, precision is alos rounded to 24dB w/ 2 complex modules) cal scout's precision is 27 (40*0.9*0.75=how to math) Just stop, you are sounding like an idiot. You made no argument, just insulted me and said my math is wrong. Seriously, you never even tried to counter the fact that the Gal bonus is good for 2 things(really only 1 now) and the Cal bonus is better in general.
Thats funny, when I re-read your post, it seems as though many points are raised and summarily shot down. The fact that I didn't get to every single one should just show you that your post was full of errors rather than me overlooking one small detail.
So now you are saying that your argument has shift from "everyone else who doesn't fit a scout this specific way is wrong oh and here are some wrong numbers and incorrect assertions" to "gal bonus only effects one thing."
Ok, let me address that. Cal bonus effects one thing, scanning. Gal bonus effects one thing, scanning. One is meant to see, one is meant to hide. They are flip-sides of the same coin. I am not sure what your point is beyond that??
Sure the cal bonus is good for finding scouts, the gallente bonus is good for hiding from scouts and scanners. They both get the same range bonus, they both see mediums and heavies easily. WTF are you trying to say?
Actually if you wanted a long-range scanner, the gallente is better than the caldari in some respects.
The max range for a caldari is 75 meters @ 15 dB, the gallente is 106 meters @ 24 dB.
Fixing swarms
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2193
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:KingBabar wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! Now you know how its like.... Not really, I am a scout, have all the suits and I'm just posting something simple that only attracted the attention of gal scouts that are scared everyone's gonna see that the cal or enh need tweaking , it's not the same as ripping on you for totally botching a challenge and bragging on a video against mtl noobs. Nice try tho brah!
Meh, thats just one incident...
People are on me and start to QQ long before they even think about what I post.
Besides, my point back then still stands, as far as the Galente scout is concerned, the suit was always ok and the year or so of QQ by the likes of you wasn't justified....
That I failed your moronic and insanely unfair "test" isn't something that keps me up at night, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten many great game in one of these many idiotic fittings I've seen posted here by the very same dudes claiming their suits are UP....
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it.
The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
Fixing swarms
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank. 1 profile damp 1 RA 2-3 PE 1 or no extenders. total EHP 250-320 (Armor shield combined) Wouldn't exactly call it a tanked suit... Even starter fits have better EHP than that lol
2-3 PE is not what i had in mind. Use 1 and you already see what i see when i fit 2 complex PEs in my scout, which is a lot. Fit 2 and you see pretty much everything. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1465
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank. 1 profile damp 1 RA 2-3 PE 1 or no extenders. total EHP 250-320 (Armor shield combined) Wouldn't exactly call it a tanked suit... Even starter fits have better EHP than that lol 2-3 PE is not what i had in mind. Use 1 and you already see what i see when i fit 2 complex PEs in my scout, which is a lot. Fit 2 and you see pretty much everything.
Fit 3 to fight proper scouts.... Fit 4 to almost beat every other scout .... At a very cost of HP and ISK |
JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
WRONG.
Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision
Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile
Correct me if you can. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1466
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
I see what you are trying to say... But a gal scout with 1 mod and cloak doesn't beat a cal scout with 4 PE and 1 RA
Before throwing numbers and your high and mighty attitude... Spec into the item, use it.. then come and run your mouth... I'm speccing into gal scout currently... Would comment on it's benefits and weaknesses once i'm completely specced into it.. till then i'll keep my opinions to myself about knowing everything about gal scouts .... My only source of actual info on gal scout comes from other proto gal scouts that i know... |
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2272
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?
Her name is irrelevant.
This thread went down far too quickly. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1466
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name? Her name is irrelevant. This thread went down far too quickly.
Someone who complained about trolling in his own thread made a failed attempt at trolling... |
Marc Rime
373
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have both at 5. I use them about equally. They both have some advantages/disadvantages. Neither feels inherently better to me.
...unless you're the type of player that brick tanks any suit you're in, then I suppose Gallente is better. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
35
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%.
I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
847
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi.
You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
847
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced. WRONG. Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile Correct me if you can.
Hi troll.
Fixing swarms
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
556
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
This IS good post , all parties seem to know what they are talking about .. right or wrong it is interesting but if there is some type of imbalance it would be nice to have that addressed .
It's fair to say , right or wrong .. parties understand how to use and play with scouts but sometimes being on the defensive or someone's bias towards a particular race would cloud someone's point of view to an extent .
This piece is still good for what it's worth .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Something Previously in Topic You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Plus, with the bonus to reduction of CPU and PG requirements of cloaks the cloak is pretty much a permanent equipment of prototype scouts. So most Gallente scouts wouldn't even need more than a single profile dampener. Meaning that a Gal Scout can dampener tank, armor tank, and shield tank due to the small CPU and PG requirements of the armor mods and profile dampeners & cloak.
It is not uncommon for me to see Gal scouts running around with 300-500 armor and about 200 shields and for them to be invisible.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced. WRONG. Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile Correct me if you can.
Easily.
Proto Cal Scout + 4 Proto Precision Enhancers = 14.9985648 Precision
Proto Gal Scout + 2 Proto Profile Dampeners = 13.820625 Profile
Proto Gal Scout + 1 Proto Profile Dampener + Cloak = 13.2890625 Profile
Proto Gal Logi + Proto Active Scanner = 15 Scan DB
Gallente is overpowered by virtue of needing less modules to do more than 4 modules.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2938
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
Just means that when you see the Cloaked scout run by you will be able to kill him easier as they will have low health.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
201
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Aszazel wrote:NAV HIV wrote:
Not trolling :
4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout
but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked...
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts. All of these arguments are factoring in end game stats. I have been a scout for 7 months and I still don't have complex range, dampening OR precision. Exactly... I run 3-4 PEs in my suit setup... Please tell me how many Gal scouts with 3-4 dampeners are there ?! All these crying from people is irritating... Currently almost every suit has it's counter and Every suit has some uniqueness to it... The problem is people want their Own suits to counter every other suits... You can try fitting it with adequate modules, but with modules alone it shouldn't be cal scout = gal scout or cal logi = gal logi... Then there would be no point in speccing into different suits or weapons for that matter.... Everyone would run 1 suit and 1 weapon... Stop the QQ and start the experiment...
And this is why you, sir, and others similarly fit, are the few can ever get the drop on me!
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
177
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi. You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Not really, they aren't meant to go head to head. Out of the box, the gal is under everything but can't see the cal, and the cal can see everything except the gal. Adding modules (assuming you go one for one) shouldn't change that fact. As it is, the Cal CAN see MOST gal's cause most gal's don't bother running a dampener. Its your issue if you want to run more precisions then needed. At level 5, the cal sees EVERY OTHER SUIT not running a damp. They are equally OP.
I would actually like to see Amarr scout get buffed. I think the Min scout is pretty on par, you get different bonuses true, but you can do a hack in under 2 secs as well; maybe a slight buff in PG. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
Not really, they aren't meant to go head to head. Out of the box, the gal is under everything but can't see the cal, and the cal can see everything except the gal. Adding modules (assuming you go one for one) shouldn't change that fact. As it is, the Cal CAN see MOST gal's cause most gal's don't bother running a dampener. Its your issue if you want to run more precisions then needed. At level 5, the cal sees EVERY OTHER SUIT not running a damp. They are equally OP.
I would actually like to see Amarr scout get buffed. I think the Min scout is pretty on par, you get different bonuses true, but you can do a hack in under 2 secs as well; maybe a slight buff in PG.
Technically you are wrong. Without the Gal Scout bonus to profile dampener other scouts would still not have too difficult of a time avoiding cal scouts. 3 proto profile dampners would avoid everything besides a cal scout with 4 precision enhancers or a proto gal logi with the best active scanner.
True, this means that minmatar scouts would need to put all slots to profile dampener and still be seen (unless they put a cloak on the suit) and the amarr scout would be able to avoid everything with 4 profile dampeners (without cloak), but I am completly happy with this. Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners.
I agree that when against non-scouts the cal scout seems op, but if a cal scout doesn't have any precision modules then heavies can actually sneak by with 3 profile dampeners. Does that seem a lot? Sure, but it's a heavy it should be easier to see. A medium suit only needs 2 profile dampeners and with 2-5 slots across the board it really isn't a hard thing to do.
Geez, what is my point? If players put in the effort they should remain hidden, or be able to see. If there is no effort then screw them.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
177
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote: Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners..
What the hell are you talking about? A Cal scout shouldn't be able to see everything; but its unfair that I can't see a Gal running only one profile dampener? Dude, if a Cal could run 1 complex precision and see an uncloaked Gal running zero dampeners (oh, wait they CAN) than THAT IS EVERYTHING.
How many slots should I sacrifice for defense against one suit? Since 1.8 I have been running with ZERO dampeners, I have been killed maybe three times by Cal's, but you know what?, even when they know where I am I usually can outgun them because they have sacrificed all their eHP for precision. Likewise, I am NOT running a thousand dampeners to combat ONE suit. I have way more important fits to use.
God, all this QQ'ing over 2 different scouts makes me want to take a shower, go try being an Amarr scout for a while, they are the ones having a hard time.
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:55:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote: Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners.. What the hell are you talking about? A Cal scout shouldn't be able to see everything; but its unfair that I can't see a Gal running only one profile dampener? Dude, if a Cal could run 1 complex precision and see an uncloaked Gal running zero dampeners (oh, wait they CAN) than THAT IS EVERYTHING. How many slots should I sacrifice for defense against one suit? Since 1.8 I have been running with ZERO dampeners, I have been killed maybe three times by Cal's, but you know what?, even when they know where I am I usually can outgun them because they have sacrificed all their eHP for precision. Likewise, I am NOT running a thousand dampeners to combat ONE suit. I have way more important fits to use. God, all this QQ'ing over 2 different scouts makes me want to take a shower, go try being an Amarr scout for a while, they are the ones having a hard time.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're arguing. If your saying that A Cal Scout with no precision mods should not be able to see a heavy then I think you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that the Scouts sacrifice a large portion of Armor and Shields just to be able to move faster and more accurately see their targets. If all a scout is suppose to do is be a flanker than they shouldn't have used the name "scout" and I would just put a series of Kin Cats on a heavy or medium suit to do the same job.
If you're saying that a scout should never be able to see any suit (even if all other suits are not using a profile dampner) then I ask what the point of a scout is. The fact of the matter is that every scout can see other suits without the use of precision mods or scout suit bonuses. It's just how they were designed.
If you're saying that a Cal scout should use all 4 high slots for precision enhancers just to see a heavy... then you're stupidity is endless.
However, you do make a good point, even if you are seen you can probably outgun me. Then the question becomes what is your problem? Why should it bother you?
How many slots should you sacrifice to counter 1 suit then the question becomes how many slots have they sacrificed to see/hide from you? A gal scout with 2 mods should not beat a cal scout with 4 precision mods. End of story.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
178
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked.
yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me.
Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Umma Kabula
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
21
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Aszazel wrote:That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me. Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
Ok, this is a troll, right?
thnx for all the fish!
Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
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thecoolest guy
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
24
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:
yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me.
Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
As a cal scout you only need 1 complex profile dampener or 0 with a cloak to evade a gallente scout running 2 precision enhancers (the max they can run) which levels the playing field. So, with 1 low slot you become invisible to everyone but your own class (or another scout gimping himself with 3-4 precision mods). I run both and can say they are extremely evenly matched.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
180
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP).
And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE. |
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
849
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP).
And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE.
First of all what you said first of all to is a non-point, having no bearing on the discussion at hand and adds nothing to the conversation. 2nd of all, 2 enhancers should > 1 dampener, because that is BALANCED YOU THICK HEADED MORON. CCP has made it so dampening is more powerful by default by making suit's profile lower than suit's precision. IF 1 dampener > 4 enhancers, well then there is absolutely no reason to fit 4 enhancers ever, and as such there is a "best" option when it comes to ewar.
thecoolest guy wrote:
As a cal scout you only need 1 complex profile dampener or 0 with a cloak to evade a gallente scout running 2 precision enhancers (the max they can run) which levels the playing field. So, with 1 low slot you become invisible to everyone but your own class (or another scout gimping himself with 3-4 precision mods). I run both and can say they are extremely evenly matched.
No they are not, are you kidding?
Gal dampeners to DEFEAT EVERYTHING IN GAME.... 1
Cal enhancers to see everything inn-game.... not going to happen. 1 damp + cloak = invisible gal, 2 damps + cloak = invisible amarr and minmatar.
Does that look balanced? (the answer is no)
Umma Kabula wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Aszazel wrote:That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me. Yes, if you sacrifice your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here? Ok, this is a troll, right?
Yes what you wrote is a troll, his makes sense.
Sorry if someone doesn't like 1 mod being greater than 4. I guess 1 heatsink on an amarr scout should be greater than 4 armor plates on the gallente scout because that would be balanced to you right? (I understand that they are different, but there is a correlary here tha.... nevermind, if you don't get it you are pants-on-head-********.)
Fixing swarms
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2007
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:50:00 -
[92] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
which shouldn't be. Honestly, the Gal suit should be the only real ghost (as Gal are the only race that focuses on being ghosts). We also need a fully fleshed out EWAR system for it to make any sense as well.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
181
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
This is a little ridiculous, I don't play eve, but I'd imagine that if you devoted the entirety of your ship to running one module you would probably beat out other ships that can do it easier, but you wouldn't live very long once you got into a fight. People keep trying to make fits to break the game so they can be OP. I know people that run 4 kin kats even though with stacking penalties you only get 0.30 meters per sec out of the last one.
Cal's can't see Gal's. Cal's can put crazy unnecessary fittings to see some Gal's. Gal's can get just as crazy to beat Cal's. All scouts can fill up all their slots to beat Cal's. Why even run these other suits if all you are focusing on is one other suit. Why not run a Gal logi with a focused scanner? Just play how you want to play. The dampeners are at 25% and the precisions are at 20%. It makes sense if you look at other classes then scouts. Heavies are 60/55, Assaults are 50/50, Logi's are 50/45 and Scouts are 35/45. Aside from scouts, all suit profiles are higher than precision, so they need a higher dampener bonus to be able to get lower. Pre 1.8 the scouts were just like the other suits. |
Umma Kabula
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 20:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ok, this is a troll, right?[/quote]
Yes what you wrote is a troll, his makes sense.
Sorry if someone doesn't like 1 mod being greater than 4. I guess 1 heatsink on an amarr scout should be greater than 4 armor plates on the gallente scout because that would be balanced to you right? (I understand that they are different, but there is a correlary here tha.... nevermind, if you don't get it you are pants-on-head-********.)[/quote]
Lol fact is that scanning tables were well known before 1.8 release and now you are complaining about the values. LOL
Aszazel wrote:First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP).
And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE.
THIS.
I wouldn't say it with better words. You can see almost EVERY SUIT IN THE GAME EXCEPT 1. deal with it.
I have both gal and cal. They're both GREAT. they have different roles and playstyles. if you can't manage this that's your problem. You can see amarr and minnie AS SOON AS THEY DECLOAK. doesn't tihis seem right to you?
Were you a gallogi before 1.8, right?
thnx for all the fish!
Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
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Umma Kabula
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
22
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
As stated before, this sounds right to me.
With a Cal you can see more or less everyone on the field except the most stealthier scouts.
I run both Gal and Cal, they both have PROs and CONs.
With a gal you're invisible to everyone, but you're not gonna see other scouts. even putting 2 complex prec enh won't be that much of a gain.
With a cal you're less invisible, but you see a lot with your passive scan.
They fill different roles.
I don't even put damps (just in some match) because I don't care to be that invisible due to te fact that I can see others... like it was for the logies (or just the scanners) before 1.8.
Gal has 3 HP/s armor rep, Cal has 50 HP/s shield rep.From my point of view, that's mazing
Gal can surely be ghosts, that's their role. But they're "blind" ghosts compared to Cals.
The range is equal at the base. you have more lows on the Gal, but you have to fit at least one damp to make them work.
As Cals need to put at least one prec ehn to get a real gain from the bonus.
That's not a 1vs1. You run in a squad vs another squad.
thnx for all the fish!
Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Umma Kabula wrote:
THIS.
I wouldn't say it with better words. You can see almost EVERY SUIT IN THE GAME EXCEPT 1. deal with it.
I have both gal and cal. They're both GREAT. they have different roles and playstyles. if you can't manage this that's your problem. You can see amarr and minnie AS SOON AS THEY DECLOAK. doesn't tihis seem right to you?
Were you a gallogi before 1.8, right?
Yes, Cal's can see most units, is it right? Nope. Can every other scout in the game see every non-scout dropsuit? Yep.
Do they have different playstyles? Dependent solely upon the player.
Is it right that a Min and Amarr Scout can be seen when they decloak if they only have 1 or 2 profile dampeners while the Cal Scout has 2 or 3 precision enhancers? Yep. Why? Because its more fair. A Cal scout has to place more mods on because you do not have equal percentages to profile dampeners. When you take away the cloak you should be seen.
Was I a gallente logi before 1.8? Nope. Minmatar Logi, Minmatar Scout, Minmatar Assault. And I sacrificed 2 low slots for profile dampeners to avoid advanced active scanners. Was I seen by proto scanners? Yes, because the cost versus the benefit of putting on more profile dampeners was too high. However, to avoid the spamming of basics and advanced active scanners the cost/benefit ratio was within acceptable ranges. Was I easier to kill? Yes, but it was a tradeoff to avoid some players.
Just like with the Minmatar, the Amarr, and the Caldari Scouts. You sacrifice some of your slots to avoid or see certain players. The Gallente? Most don't need to sacrifice a single slot since they have the 25% bonus of the suit skill itself and the 25% bonus of ALL cloaks. If I have 3 or more precision mods then they need only 1 profile dampener to avoid me.
I accept that I must sacrifice some of my slots to be able to see players but CCP has made it too easy for other scouts to avoid the cal scout. Am I bitching about 1 type of suit versus all the other suits? Maybe I am, but what I'm really complaining about is that they have made it too easy to profile damp scouts and have created an imbalance.
I'm sorry if no one else shares in my opinion. I'm not trying to ask for a buff to cal scouts, I'm just asking for a little more fair play and sacrifice.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
753
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 22:56:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hate this. With max skills and equal number of enhancers / damps for the Caldari and Gallente scout respectively, the Gallente scout will always hide from a Caldari scout.
It should be the other way around, with the cloak throwing the balance to the Gallente's favor to hide.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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sebastian the huds
Legions of Infinite Dominion
Zero-Day
76
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Scout ck.0
4 complex shield extenders
2 enhanced shield regulators
1 adv cloak
Adv weapon of choice
I would say that this fit is able to kill anything it targets.
Plus, gal scout can hide from cal scout passive; but this is where player skill kicks in and says
"That scout probably doesn't have much tank, so if I find him with my eyes he is a dead man."
Yes, I will see you
through the smoke and flames
on the frontlines of war
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max.
QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
278
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:19:00 -
[100] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max.
QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough.
What are you going on about? You don't understand why Precision Enhancers and Profile Dampeners and the exact number of modules should CHANGE the out come of whether or not a Gallente scout can be scanned by a Caldari Scout? Or a Gallente Logi?
Because the modules modify our abilities. The modules CHANGE our abilities per module.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
757
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max.
QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough.
You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again.
The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Hate this. With max skills and equal number of enhancers / damps for the Caldari and Gallente scout respectively, the Gallente scout will always hide from a Caldari scout.
It should be the other way around, with the cloak throwing the balance to the Gallente's favor to hide.
Seems perfectly reasonable. Equal number of modules, bonuses... yes, the cloak would be a good deciding factor. +1. +1 for actually paying attention to what the thread was about (if I could I would have given you the second +1).
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:23:00 -
[103] - Quote
sebastian the huds wrote:Scout ck.0
4 complex shield extenders
2 enhanced shield regulators
1 adv cloak
Adv weapon of choice
I would say that this fit is able to kill anything it targets.
Plus, gal scout can hide from cal scout passive; but this is where player skill kicks in and says
"That scout probably doesn't have much tank, so if I find him with my eyes he is a dead man."
Nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
40
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Posted - 2014.04.15 23:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Aszazel wrote:If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max.
QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again. The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari.
Thank you. +1. Wasn't sure if some people could read properly.
I can not make my argument more clear. I am not saying that the Caldari SHOULD be able to see the gallente scout. I'm not saying that I want a buff to the Caldari scout in any way what-so-ever. I'm asking that there is more equality in EWAR. 4 modules versus 1 module and cloak is not equal. If the Gal Scout wishes to remain invisible versus a Cal scout then he/she should have to sacrifice more of those low slots to avoid Cal scouts or Gallente Logis.
Base stats already dictate that gallente should be able to avoid cal scouts. Fine. However, CCP has then created the imbalance in EWAR. Realize that this is the ******* point I am trying to make! There is an imbalance in EWAR. That means that there needs to be a PROPER adjustment that does not make something OP but rather powerful enough to do something only, and I do mean ONLY, to be if they are weak enough in some other scenario.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:01:00 -
[105] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Aszazel wrote:If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max.
QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again. The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari. Thank you. +1. Wasn't sure if some people could read properly. I can not make my argument more clear. I am not saying that the Caldari SHOULD be able to see the gallente scout. I'm not saying that I want a buff to the Caldari scout in any way what-so-ever. I'm asking that there is more equality in EWAR. 4 modules versus 1 module and cloak is not equal. If the Gal Scout wishes to remain invisible versus a Cal scout then he/she should have to sacrifice more of those low slots to avoid Cal scouts or Gallente Logis. Base stats already dictate that gallente should be able to avoid cal scouts. Fine. However, CCP has then created the imbalance in EWAR. Realize that this is the ******* point I am trying to make! There is an imbalance in EWAR. That means that there needs to be a PROPER adjustment that does not make something OP but rather powerful enough to do something only, and I do mean ONLY, to be if they are weak enough in some other scenario.
Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL.
But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too. |
Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
291
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP.
Then how do we nerf eyes!?!?!?
"One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
5090
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:09:00 -
[107] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
Well, In THEORY , a Gal scout with 4 Complex Profile dampeners will avoid a cal Scout with 4 CX precision enhancers ( SPECIALLY if he is cloaked).
But the thing is , its not a VIABLE fit.
The msot profile dampeners i run is 1 cx on my Gal and 2 on my Cal scout, making it for a CAl Scout with 3 cx precision enhancer to be able to see me.(IF not cloaked)
Again. I dont think anyone Would or SHOULD equip more than 2 Complex Dampeners/Enhancers/RAnge Amplifiers (the same moddule, i actually use a grand total of 5 of these modules combined on my Gk.0....).
Now what breaks the math a little further for the GAL Scout side, is hte extra 25% dampening of the cloak....
That it should be removed.
So taht CAl scouts can effectivley detect scouts that are not Specialized DAMPENED E-war scouts, giving tanked & Speed tanked scouts the advantage of EHP and Speed,but NOT of Profile dampening, as it is now.
Sorry beforehand for the mispellings...
Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
758
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:13:00 -
[108] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL.
But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too.
See, this is a totally subjective thing. Watch this.
You want to be able to hide from every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to GAL.
I can QQ about subjective BS without a well thought out argument, too.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
280
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:13:00 -
[109] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL.
But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too.
GǪnice straw man you have there? No one said anything about the removal of the cloak bonus. What he said was it was a temporary buff that would act (if modules and skill bonuses are equal) as a great deciding factor. Truthfully, we need more things that affect our Profile stat in real time, not less.
A Cal Scout does not "Top out" before a Gal Scout. Both have the same number of slots to work with and both have to decide between Ewar Modules or HP modules. If a Cal Scout sacrifices its defensive capabilities to the extent where it has no HP modules, it should take a similar sacrifice by the Gallente to stay under its radar.
But it doesn't. A Cal Scout (or a minmatar scout, or a Gallente Logi with Active scanners for that matter) will not be able to detect a Gallente scout.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:19:00 -
[110] - Quote
Here is the thing I guess I am not getting about all this whining, say they buff precision to 25% instead of 20% so they are in line with dampeners. Gal's start at 35db profile, and Cal's start at 45db precision, so with the cloak that all suits equally get the 25% bonus for, and adding the gal's suit bonus, and the cal's suit bonus. You will still top out of precision before the gal tops out in dampening.
So this post is pointless unless your aim is to increase precision modules and to make other suits more powerful at picking up scouts. Your argument to buff precision would be pointless in the gal vs cal example. So what do you want to whine about next here? remove the bonus for cloaks to all suits? A finite resource that requires intelligent management so you have it when you need it? Make the game as dumbed down as possible? |
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:21:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Aszazel wrote:Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL.
But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too. See, this is a totally subjective thing. Watch this. You want to be able to hide from every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to GAL. I can QQ about subjective BS without a well thought out argument, too.
There IS a hard counter to GAL's, we can't see any other scouts or other gal's. We may be unscannable but we are running blind, thats why I learned to use my OP eyes. |
Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:24:00 -
[112] - Quote
Not to mention a Gal Logi with bonus running a focused scanner will pick up any gal that doesn't have 3 dampeners on,
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
40
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
Some REALLY HARD Facts for you all:
Gallente Scout - Cloak & Bonus
35 Base scan profile
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
25% cloak dampener effect = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
1st dampener = 17.71875 * 75% = 13.2890625
2nd dampener = 13.2890625 * 78% = 10.36546875
3rd dampener = 10.36546875 * 86% = 8.914303125
4th dampener = 8.914303125 * 93% = 8.29030190625
Gallente Scout - No Cloak
35 Base scan profile
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625
3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375
4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875
Gallente Scout - No bonus (What I would like)
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Cloak Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625
3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375
4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875
Caldari Scout
40 Base Scan Precision
10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36
Scout Bonus (Caldari) = 36 * 75% = 27
1st Precision Enhancer = 27 * 80% = 21.6
2nd Precision Enhancer = 21.6 * 83% = 17.928
3rd Precision Enhancer = 17.928 * 89% = 15.95592
4th Precision Enhancer = 15.95592 * 94% = 14.9985648
Minmatar/Amarr Scout
40 Base Scan Precision
10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36
1st Precision Enhancer = 36 * 80% = 28.8
2nd Precision Enhancer = 28.8 * 83% = 23.904
3rd Precision Enhancer = 23.904 * 89% = 21.27456
4th Precision Enhancer = 21.27456 * 94% = 19.9980864
Gallente Logi (proto)
Precision mods do not affect the active scanner!!!!!
Proto Active Scanner = 15db
This will be my last response. From this we can see that a Gal Scout needs 1 profile Dampener and cloak to remain invisible to everyone in the game.
My recommendations? Change the Gallente Scout bonus off of profile Dampening AT THE ******* LEAST! With that 25% bonus gone you can see that a Gallente Scout can still remain invisible to EVERYONE IN THE GAME with just 2 profile dampeners and a cloak.
To those who can read, to those who understand the topic of this thread, to those who can do the math for yourself what I'm saying should be understandable. If you don't like it, fine, if you like it good.
To the Trolls and Idiots, I'm done with you. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with 'your people' any more. Go back and read my posts in this thread and have a nice day.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
759
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:29:00 -
[114] - Quote
Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong.
Assume max skills for all the examples below.
A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners.
The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit.
Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Umma Kabula
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
23
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:38:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bormir1r wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Then how do we nerf eyes!?!?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUqcUUcVc5U
thnx for all the fish!
Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
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DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
439
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:39:00 -
[116] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal?
enhancers are also squad shared atm
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
439
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:41:00 -
[117] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong.
Assume max skills for all the examples below.
A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners.
The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit.
Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit.
gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
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Posted - 2014.04.16 00:41:00 -
[118] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Some REALLY HARD Facts for you all:
Gallente Scout - Cloak & Bonus
35 Base scan profile
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
25% cloak dampener effect = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
1st dampener = 17.71875 * 75% = 13.2890625
2nd dampener = 13.2890625 * 78% = 10.36546875
3rd dampener = 10.36546875 * 86% = 8.914303125
4th dampener = 8.914303125 * 93% = 8.29030190625
Gallente Scout - No Cloak
35 Base scan profile
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625
3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375
4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875
Gallente Scout - No bonus (What I would like)
10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5
25% Cloak Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625
1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875
2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625
3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375
4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875
Caldari Scout
40 Base Scan Precision
10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36
Scout Bonus (Caldari) = 36 * 75% = 27
1st Precision Enhancer = 27 * 80% = 21.6
2nd Precision Enhancer = 21.6 * 83% = 17.928
3rd Precision Enhancer = 17.928 * 89% = 15.95592
4th Precision Enhancer = 15.95592 * 94% = 14.9985648
Minmatar/Amarr Scout
40 Base Scan Precision
10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36
1st Precision Enhancer = 36 * 80% = 28.8
2nd Precision Enhancer = 28.8 * 83% = 23.904
3rd Precision Enhancer = 23.904 * 89% = 21.27456
4th Precision Enhancer = 21.27456 * 94% = 19.9980864
Gallente Logi (proto)
Precision mods do not affect the active scanner!!!!!
Proto Active Scanner = 15db
This will be my last response. From this we can see that a Gal Scout needs 1 profile Dampener and cloak to remain invisible to everyone in the game.
My recommendations? Change the Gallente Scout bonus off of profile Dampening AT THE ******* LEAST! With that 25% bonus gone you can see that a Gallente Scout can still remain invisible to EVERYONE IN THE GAME with just 2 profile dampeners and a cloak.
To those who can read, to those who understand the topic of this thread, to those who can do the math for yourself what I'm saying should be understandable. If you don't like it, fine, if you like it good.
To the Trolls and Idiots, I'm done with you. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with 'your people' any more. Go back and read my posts in this thread and have a nice day.
You would not need to show what the Gal would be like without the suit bonus because that is the current state of EVERY CURRENT SCOUT SUIT. I will grant you all the numbers would be fairer if all scout had a base of 40 db instead of 35. And I know that Gallenete Logi precision modules do not increase the scanner. however, the BONUS TO Gallanete Logi is 5% better scan per level WITH A SCANNER. So it would be 15db * 0.25 = 11.25 db
The Gal scout had a bonus to dampening before 1.8, so you are asking to do away with a bonus to a suit cause your suit that didn't exist 4 weeks ago can't see it. |
Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
187
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong.
Assume max skills for all the examples below.
A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners.
The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit.
Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit. gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions
Are you kidding? A Gal can't see a Cal with two comp precisions even if the cal only has ONE dampener + cloak, the CAL is the only suit that gets this bonus and its awesome. That's why I keep arguing with everyone, your suit is awesome, stop complaining that its not awesome. |
Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
760
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 01:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions
This specific argument has no basis in this discussion. The Gal scout's role isn't to see, it's to not be seen.
Aszazel wrote:Are you kidding? A Gal can't see a Cal with two comp precisions even if the cal only has ONE dampener + cloak, the CAL is the only suit that gets this bonus and its awesome. That's why I keep arguing with everyone, your suit is awesome, stop complaining that its not awesome.
Are you dense? It's not my suit. I'm not arguing this because I run a CalScout. I'm arguing it because it's bullshit. This specific argument has no basis in this discussion. The Gal scout's role isn't to see, it's to not be seen.
Also, you're wrong and act like active scanners don't exist anymore. With a single complex dampener and cloak the CalScout cannot hide from a Duvolle Focused. With two complex dampeners and a cloak the CalScout can only hide from a Duvolle Focused while cloaked. I don't ***** about it though because every other scout can do that, and their role isn't to hide.
At this point you're arguing to argue. A fix is needed and would be as simple as switching the CalScout base profile and precision, or any other number of methods. Deal with it.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
311
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Posted - 2014.04.16 01:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%.
this is how it should and would work if they got rid of bonus one the cloak. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
280
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Posted - 2014.04.16 01:47:00 -
[122] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
You would not need to show what the Gal would be like without the suit bonus because that is the current state of EVERY CURRENT SCOUT SUIT. I will grant you all the numbers would be fairer if all scout had a base of 40 db instead of 35. And I know that Gallenete Logi precision modules do not increase the scanner. however, the BONUS TO Gallanete Logi is 5% better scan per level WITH A SCANNER. So it would be 15db * 0.25 = 11.25 db
The Gal scout had a bonus to dampening before 1.8, so you are asking to do away with a bonus to a suit cause your suit that didn't exist 4 weeks ago can't see it.
The 15 DB is already taking into account the Gallente Logi bonus. Basic stats of the Duvolle Focused is 20 Gal Logi bonus reduces to 15. The Gal Scout wasn't able to tempt the FotM chasers away from abusing the Gallente Logi, and the Minmatar also shared similar scan bonuses with the Gal Scout prior to 1.8.
You're the only one QQing and saying don't nerf "my suit". Everyone else is simply arguing that the EWAR game is unbalanced and in need of a redesign. Cal Scout included. Make no mistake, if the Gallente weren't able to Cloak, Profile Damp from all suits with 2xDampeners, and still have 2 highs and 2 lows to play with, I would be saying Cal Scout needs a Nerf(or more specifically Passive scanning needs nerving).
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
763
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 02:43:00 -
[123] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default.
I'm not sure if you're just talking about scouts here or all suits. But just in case.
Base stats - By default, Sentinels can see other Sentinels, Commandos can see other Commandos, and Logistics can see other Logistics. Assaults have equal profile and precision and I'm not sure what wins out if the values are equal. Do Assaults see other Assaults, or are they hidden from other Assaults?
The ONLY suit is hidden from the same suit by default is the Scout suit, and that's only been since 1.8.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1480
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 12:19:00 -
[124] - Quote
I know this is not related directly... But Magnus, You say way too much for someone who hides behind the redline (most of the time) and keeps spamming uplinks in random areas for Blue dots to die.... Must be nice to get 1100WP and go 1-0 yet let your team get slaughtered lol... So much of Non-Moronic comments and arguments from such a great player who clearly used all the equipment and suits to comment on which one is OP and which one is not... Get rid of that tin foil hat and get yourself in the Battlefield to learn first hand To some it up, some might also say "Get Gud Scrub" |
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