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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
372
   |
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
My scout is actually built around hunting caldari scouts.
2 complex dampeners and a complex kincat and cloak. Weapon is whatever I pick at the time but tends to be scrambler pistols or breach shotgun.
Dedicated Stealth Scout.
Scout instructor; Learning Coalition
Scrambler pistols are still lethal.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:NAV HIV wrote:"#49Posted: 2014.04.15 16:17 | Report
Like
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
NAV HIV wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
Joel II X wrote:
[Quote=DEZKA DIABLO]Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers
Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining.
If you got all four suits, then you shouldn't really be complaining. Lol
If you have all 4 suits then you should know that the gal Scout is the Better Assault and Cal Scout is the better support and Hunter...
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad Ugh
You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?"
DEZKA DIABLO Can't afford me, besides I ll bet with how tuff you talk your trying to make up for the 3 inches you don't like to talk about, it's ok tho we u
Didn't know you bend for cash... But it's ok. We are not juddemental |
JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Dmg mods aren't worth the CPU/PG anymore.
Extenders and plates are not to be put on scouts.
All scouts get enough damp to hide from advanced scanners and with max passive skills you go all the way down to 31.5 iirc, so there is no reason to run damps unless you wanna hide from a complex scanner(good luck finding those anymore) or a Cal scout.
A cal scout's precision is 26.3 with max skills iirc(assuming he has a base db of 40 like the other scouts and has his passive skills to max, which if they aren't then you shouldn't be running scout anyway)
So a cal scout can see all scouts(except gal) mediums and heavies with no mods(assuming no one is running damps)
and all other scouts can see mediums and heavies(unless they run a damp or 2)
So the Cal scouts bonus is always active and gets to see basically everyone and the Gals bonus is good for hiding from Proto scanners and Cal scouts...that's it... Look, your post here is just oozing dumb. In one post you say you have the only way to fit a scout suit, and that everyone else is wrong. I don't even know where to begin other than saying that you are not interested in a conversation, just spouting your own misguided beliefs. If you don't fit a damp, then everyone who fits precision enhancers will see you (rounded to 24 dB w/ cloak, precision is alos rounded to 24dB w/ 2 complex modules) cal scout's precision is 27 (40*0.9*0.75=how to math) Just stop, you are sounding like an idiot. You made no argument, just insulted me and said my math is wrong. Seriously, you never even tried to counter the fact that the Gal bonus is good for 2 things(really only 1 now) and the Cal bonus is better in general.
Thats funny, when I re-read your post, it seems as though many points are raised and summarily shot down. The fact that I didn't get to every single one should just show you that your post was full of errors rather than me overlooking one small detail.
So now you are saying that your argument has shift from "everyone else who doesn't fit a scout this specific way is wrong oh and here are some wrong numbers and incorrect assertions" to "gal bonus only effects one thing."
Ok, let me address that. Cal bonus effects one thing, scanning. Gal bonus effects one thing, scanning. One is meant to see, one is meant to hide. They are flip-sides of the same coin. I am not sure what your point is beyond that??
Sure the cal bonus is good for finding scouts, the gallente bonus is good for hiding from scouts and scanners. They both get the same range bonus, they both see mediums and heavies easily. WTF are you trying to say?
Actually if you wanted a long-range scanner, the gallente is better than the caldari in some respects.
The max range for a caldari is 75 meters @ 15 dB, the gallente is 106 meters @ 24 dB.
Fixing swarms
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2193
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:KingBabar wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Well ur saying I'm whining heres the numbers Yes, I know those numbers. Doesn't change the fact that you're whining. The Gallente suit is specialized to counter your suit. If you take that away, we'll only have the armor reps that barely help in actual combat. You can't scan us, and we can't scan you (unless we use precision enhancers and you don't use profile dampners). Seems pretty fair to me. God forbid your suit gets an actual counter  IDIOT STICK I HAVE ALL 4 PROTO SCOUTS SUITS SO WHY THE FAK WOULD I WHINE WHEN I CAN JUST CHANGE SUITS! It's a friggen debat and simple question an u got ur panties in a knot thinking I'm crying nerf cuz ur a bloody troll trying to crush a perfectly good question about enhancer mods vrs damps since you only need 1 comp mod and a active cloak to be invincible. And I have both so being a jerk for no reason is bloody childish, now if I didn't have a gal suit than maybe, but it's ok bro we kno u like ur crutch it's cool! Now you know how its like.... Not really, I am a scout, have all the suits and I'm just posting something simple that only attracted the attention of gal scouts that are scared everyone's gonna see that the cal or enh need tweaking , it's not the same as ripping on you for totally botching a challenge and bragging on a video against mtl noobs. Nice try tho brah!
Meh, thats just one incident...
People are on me and start to QQ long before they even think about what I post.
Besides, my point back then still stands, as far as the Galente scout is concerned, the suit was always ok and the year or so of QQ by the likes of you wasn't justified....
That I failed your moronic and insanely unfair "test" isn't something that keps me up at night, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten many great game in one of these many idiotic fittings I've seen posted here by the very same dudes claiming their suits are UP....
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
840
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Posted - 2014.04.15 16:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it.
The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
Fixing swarms
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank. 1 profile damp 1 RA 2-3 PE 1 or no extenders. total EHP 250-320 (Armor shield combined) Wouldn't exactly call it a tanked suit... Even starter fits have better EHP than that lol
2-3 PE is not what i had in mind. Use 1 and you already see what i see when i fit 2 complex PEs in my scout, which is a lot. Fit 2 and you see pretty much everything. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1465
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:NAV HIV wrote:JP Acuna wrote:No, Cal shouldn't see it all.
Being unscannable doesn't mean you know where the enemies are, your bonus is still a great advantage.
Plus, your caldari scout can use dampeners and range amps without sacrificing tank, also kincats.
If you consider our reps a bonus, then your natural shield regen is a bonus too. Please enlighten us on the statement above, How does a cal scout do Proper scouting without sacrificing Tank?! I said they can use low slots without sacrificing tank. 1 profile damp 1 RA 2-3 PE 1 or no extenders. total EHP 250-320 (Armor shield combined) Wouldn't exactly call it a tanked suit... Even starter fits have better EHP than that lol 2-3 PE is not what i had in mind. Use 1 and you already see what i see when i fit 2 complex PEs in my scout, which is a lot. Fit 2 and you see pretty much everything.
Fit 3 to fight proper scouts.... Fit 4 to almost beat every other scout .... At a very cost of HP and ISK  |
JP Acuna
Pendejitos
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
WRONG.
Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision
Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile
Correct me if you can. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1466
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced.
I see what you are trying to say... But a gal scout with 1 mod and cloak doesn't beat a cal scout with 4 PE and 1 RA
Before throwing numbers and your high and mighty attitude... Spec into the item, use it.. then come and run your mouth... I'm speccing into gal scout currently... Would comment on it's benefits and weaknesses once i'm completely specced into it.. till then i'll keep my opinions to myself about knowing everything about gal scouts .... My only source of actual info on gal scout comes from other proto gal scouts that i know... |
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2272
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad  You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name?
Her name is irrelevant.
This thread went down far too quickly. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1466
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Joel II X wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:
You and Joel dating yet?
I've thought about it, but my current girlfriend would get mad You have a girlfriend ? Congradulations , what's his name? Her name is irrelevant. This thread went down far too quickly.
Someone who complained about trolling in his own thread made a failed attempt at trolling... |
Marc Rime
373
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have both at 5. I use them about equally. They both have some advantages/disadvantages. Neither feels inherently better to me.
...unless you're the type of player that brick tanks any suit you're in, then I suppose Gallente is better. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
35
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%.
I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
847
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi.
You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
847
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced. WRONG. Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile Correct me if you can.
Hi troll.
Fixing swarms
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
556
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
This IS good post , all parties seem to know what they are talking about .. right or wrong it is interesting but if there is some type of imbalance it would be nice to have that addressed .
It's fair to say , right or wrong .. parties understand how to use and play with scouts but sometimes being on the defensive or someone's bias towards a particular race would cloud someone's point of view to an extent .
This piece is still good for what it's worth .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Something Previously in Topic You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Plus, with the bonus to reduction of CPU and PG requirements of cloaks the cloak is pretty much a permanent equipment of prototype scouts. So most Gallente scouts wouldn't even need more than a single profile dampener. Meaning that a Gal Scout can dampener tank, armor tank, and shield tank due to the small CPU and PG requirements of the armor mods and profile dampeners & cloak.
It is not uncommon for me to see Gal scouts running around with 300-500 armor and about 200 shields and for them to be invisible.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Aszazel wrote:
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts.
That's it. The argument is not that the gal shouldn't beat the caldari suit.. it is that the gallente using 1 mod and a cloak beats the caldari using 4 mods. They are both bonused against eachother.... so this interplay is not balanced. WRONG. Caldari with 4 complex precision enhancers= -6 db (negative) Precision Gallente with 1 complex dampener and cloak= 5.25 dbProfile Correct me if you can.
Easily.
Proto Cal Scout + 4 Proto Precision Enhancers = 14.9985648 Precision
Proto Gal Scout + 2 Proto Profile Dampeners = 13.820625 Profile
Proto Gal Scout + 1 Proto Profile Dampener + Cloak = 13.2890625 Profile
Proto Gal Logi + Proto Active Scanner = 15 Scan DB
Gallente is overpowered by virtue of needing less modules to do more than 4 modules.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2938
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining.
Caldari Scout gets:
-enhanced shielding with quick shield regen
-scan as well
-high precision
-can also be ghosts
Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it.
Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners.
Just means that when you see the Cloaked scout run by you will be able to kill him easier as they will have low health.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
201
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Aszazel wrote:NAV HIV wrote:
Not trolling :
4 PE on a Cal scout picks up a 3 PD Gal Scout
but 4 PE Doesn't pick up a 4 PD Gal Scout... Not just saying stuff.. I run PE in my Cal Scout, tested it against 3/4 PD gal scout... When it comes to Gal Scout with 4 PD... Only our eyes can save us... But a 4 PD gal scout won't be that hard to kill once spotted, it won't be brick tanked...
Here's the thing, every suit has it's advantages, the only reason that Gal's get the attention is because we have the dampening + the lows slots for more dampening. Cal's get precision + high slots for more precision. If Gal's couldn't get below Cal's, Cal's would be THE MOST powerful suit in the game. Just because Gal's get the dampening doesn't mean they can't run into another Gal or get low enough precision to see other scouts. All of these arguments are factoring in end game stats. I have been a scout for 7 months and I still don't have complex range, dampening OR precision. Exactly... I run 3-4 PEs in my suit setup... Please tell me how many Gal scouts with 3-4 dampeners are there ?! All these crying from people is irritating... Currently almost every suit has it's counter and Every suit has some uniqueness to it... The problem is people want their Own suits to counter every other suits... You can try fitting it with adequate modules, but with modules alone it shouldn't be cal scout = gal scout or cal logi = gal logi... Then there would be no point in speccing into different suits or weapons for that matter.... Everyone would run 1 suit and 1 weapon... Stop the QQ and start the experiment...
And this is why you, sir, and others similarly fit, are the few can ever get the drop on me!
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
177
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening?
I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal.
Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses
Range
Reps
Damps
And the ability to be a ghosts
The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us.
Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? If you take a look at how the cal and gal scout would work without that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampening mod you would see the meta actually makes sense. By default suits have lower dampening values than precision, meaning they are hidden by default. Without the cloaky dampening bonus, 1 enhancer allows you to see an equal sized suit. 1 dampener hides you from an equal sized suit with an enhancer. So in the end, with this interplay, in order to hide from a 4 precision enhanced suit would require 4 profile dampeners, which is balanced. Actually I am not 100% sure that 4 precision enhancers would pick up a 3 dampener suit, and if not maybe the precision enhancers should get bumped to 25% rather than 20%. I haven't checked to see if there was a reply to this, but! You are wrong sir. Without a cloak a prototype Gallente Scout is completely invisible as long as they have 2 proto profile dampeners. Only 2 and a full 4 proto precision enhancers and prototype caldari scout will not be able to see you. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be picked up by the best active scanner being used by a proto gallente logi. You are right. I guess I got that one wrong. 2 damps on a gal scout is 13.8, 4 enhancers on a caldari is 14.9. See that is not right, there is a two module disparity there that gets even worse with cloaks. Kudos.
Not really, they aren't meant to go head to head. Out of the box, the gal is under everything but can't see the cal, and the cal can see everything except the gal. Adding modules (assuming you go one for one) shouldn't change that fact. As it is, the Cal CAN see MOST gal's cause most gal's don't bother running a dampener. Its your issue if you want to run more precisions then needed. At level 5, the cal sees EVERY OTHER SUIT not running a damp. They are equally OP.
I would actually like to see Amarr scout get buffed. I think the Min scout is pretty on par, you get different bonuses true, but you can do a hack in under 2 secs as well; maybe a slight buff in PG. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:
Not really, they aren't meant to go head to head. Out of the box, the gal is under everything but can't see the cal, and the cal can see everything except the gal. Adding modules (assuming you go one for one) shouldn't change that fact. As it is, the Cal CAN see MOST gal's cause most gal's don't bother running a dampener. Its your issue if you want to run more precisions then needed. At level 5, the cal sees EVERY OTHER SUIT not running a damp. They are equally OP.
I would actually like to see Amarr scout get buffed. I think the Min scout is pretty on par, you get different bonuses true, but you can do a hack in under 2 secs as well; maybe a slight buff in PG.
Technically you are wrong. Without the Gal Scout bonus to profile dampener other scouts would still not have too difficult of a time avoiding cal scouts. 3 proto profile dampners would avoid everything besides a cal scout with 4 precision enhancers or a proto gal logi with the best active scanner.
True, this means that minmatar scouts would need to put all slots to profile dampener and still be seen (unless they put a cloak on the suit) and the amarr scout would be able to avoid everything with 4 profile dampeners (without cloak), but I am completly happy with this. Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners.
I agree that when against non-scouts the cal scout seems op, but if a cal scout doesn't have any precision modules then heavies can actually sneak by with 3 profile dampeners. Does that seem a lot? Sure, but it's a heavy it should be easier to see. A medium suit only needs 2 profile dampeners and with 2-5 slots across the board it really isn't a hard thing to do.
Geez, what is my point? If players put in the effort they should remain hidden, or be able to see. If there is no effort then screw them.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
177
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote: Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners..
What the hell are you talking about? A Cal scout shouldn't be able to see everything; but its unfair that I can't see a Gal running only one profile dampener? Dude, if a Cal could run 1 complex precision and see an uncloaked Gal running zero dampeners (oh, wait they CAN) than THAT IS EVERYTHING.
How many slots should I sacrifice for defense against one suit? Since 1.8 I have been running with ZERO dampeners, I have been killed maybe three times by Cal's, but you know what?, even when they know where I am I usually can outgun them because they have sacrificed all their eHP for precision. Likewise, I am NOT running a thousand dampeners to combat ONE suit. I have way more important fits to use.
God, all this QQ'ing over 2 different scouts makes me want to take a shower, go try being an Amarr scout for a while, they are the ones having a hard time.
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BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
36
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:55:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:BrotherofHavok wrote: Should a Cal scout be able to see everything? No, but the scouts should need to work at avoiding it just as the Cal scout needs to put 4 precision enhancers to see something that isn't tanked out the wha-zoo with profile dampeners.. What the hell are you talking about? A Cal scout shouldn't be able to see everything; but its unfair that I can't see a Gal running only one profile dampener? Dude, if a Cal could run 1 complex precision and see an uncloaked Gal running zero dampeners (oh, wait they CAN) than THAT IS EVERYTHING. How many slots should I sacrifice for defense against one suit? Since 1.8 I have been running with ZERO dampeners, I have been killed maybe three times by Cal's, but you know what?, even when they know where I am I usually can outgun them because they have sacrificed all their eHP for precision. Likewise, I am NOT running a thousand dampeners to combat ONE suit. I have way more important fits to use. God, all this QQ'ing over 2 different scouts makes me want to take a shower, go try being an Amarr scout for a while, they are the ones having a hard time.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're arguing. If your saying that A Cal Scout with no precision mods should not be able to see a heavy then I think you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that the Scouts sacrifice a large portion of Armor and Shields just to be able to move faster and more accurately see their targets. If all a scout is suppose to do is be a flanker than they shouldn't have used the name "scout" and I would just put a series of Kin Cats on a heavy or medium suit to do the same job.
If you're saying that a scout should never be able to see any suit (even if all other suits are not using a profile dampner) then I ask what the point of a scout is. The fact of the matter is that every scout can see other suits without the use of precision mods or scout suit bonuses. It's just how they were designed.
If you're saying that a Cal scout should use all 4 high slots for precision enhancers just to see a heavy... then you're stupidity is endless.
However, you do make a good point, even if you are seen you can probably outgun me. Then the question becomes what is your problem? Why should it bother you?
How many slots should you sacrifice to counter 1 suit then the question becomes how many slots have they sacrificed to see/hide from you? A gal scout with 2 mods should not beat a cal scout with 4 precision mods. End of story.
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
178
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. |
BrotherofHavok
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
37
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked.
yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me.
Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
Sincerely,
Your Multi-purpose Everything User
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Umma Kabula
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
21
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:Aszazel wrote:That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener.
Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me. Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
Ok, this is a troll, right?
thnx for all the fish!
Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
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thecoolest guy
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
24
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
BrotherofHavok wrote:
yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me.
Yes, if you sacrifce your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here?
As a cal scout you only need 1 complex profile dampener or 0 with a cloak to evade a gallente scout running 2 precision enhancers (the max they can run) which levels the playing field. So, with 1 low slot you become invisible to everyone but your own class (or another scout gimping himself with 3-4 precision mods). I run both and can say they are extremely evenly matched.
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Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
180
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP).
And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE. |
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