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Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 849	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:32:00 - [91] - Quote Aszazel wrote: First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP). And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE. First of all what you said first of all to is a non-point, having no bearing on the discussion at hand and adds nothing to the conversation. 2nd of all, 2 enhancers should > 1 dampener, because that is BALANCED YOU THICK HEADED MORON. CCP has made it so dampening is more powerful by default by making suit's profile lower than suit's precision. IF 1 dampener > 4 enhancers, well then there is absolutely no reason to fit 4 enhancers ever, and as such there is a "best" option when it comes to ewar. thecoolest guy wrote: As a cal scout you only need 1 complex profile dampener or 0 with a cloak to evade a gallente scout running 2 precision enhancers (the max they can run) which levels the playing field. So, with 1 low slot you become invisible to everyone but your own class (or another scout gimping himself with 3-4 precision mods). I run both and can say they are extremely evenly matched. No they are not, are you kidding? Gal dampeners to DEFEAT EVERYTHING IN GAME.... 1 Cal enhancers to see everything inn-game.... not going to happen. 1 damp + cloak = invisible gal, 2 damps + cloak = invisible amarr and minmatar. Does that look balanced? (the answer is no) Umma Kabula wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: Aszazel wrote: That is exactly what I am saying, because a Cal that runs 4 complex precision mods is only doing so to be able to see a dampened gal scout, which he should never be able to do. Because the Gal scout is the only counter to the Cal's precision and every suit needs a counter. As it is, if you run 4 precisions you WILL be able to see any Gal that is running 1 complex dampener. Why are we even talking about all this? We all knew the bonuses as 1.8 came out, why don't you be happy with what you already picked. yes, 4 versus 1 I can see him, fine I got that. But there is a major imbalance here when 1 more profile damp can make the gal invisible to me. Yes, if you sacrifice your eHP modules for detection mods then you should be able to see more. It also means you should be able to die faster, no problems there. Why is it then that that Gal scouts only need 1 profile dampener and a cloak to remain invisible to me? What about their other 3 low slots? armor modules? speed modules? What about my 4 high slots? oh wait, they're already taken up by precision mods. Do you see the imbalance here? Ok, this is a troll, right? Yes what you wrote is a troll, his makes sense. Sorry if someone doesn't like 1 mod being greater than 4. I guess 1 heatsink on an amarr scout should be greater than 4 armor plates on the gallente scout because that would be balanced to you right? (I understand that they are different, but there is a correlary here tha.... nevermind, if you don't get it you are pants-on-head-********.) Fixing swarms
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2007	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:50:00 - [92] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining. Caldari Scout gets: -enhanced shielding with quick shield regen -scan as well -high precision -can also be ghosts Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it. Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. No, the amarr and minmatar suits can also beat a maxed out caldari suit, they just need 1 cloak and 3 profile dampeners. which shouldn't be. Honestly, the Gal suit should be the only real ghost (as Gal are the only race that focuses on being ghosts). We also need a fully fleshed out EWAR system for it to make any sense as well. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 181	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:02:00 - [93] - Quote This is a little ridiculous, I don't play eve, but I'd imagine that if you devoted the entirety of your ship to running one module you would probably beat out other ships that can do it easier, but you wouldn't live very long once you got into a fight. People keep trying to make fits to break the game so they can be OP. I know people that run 4 kin kats even though with stacking penalties you only get 0.30 meters per sec out of the last one. Cal's can't see Gal's. Cal's can put crazy unnecessary fittings to see some Gal's. Gal's can get just as crazy to beat Cal's. All scouts can fill up all their slots to beat Cal's. Why even run these other suits if all you are focusing on is one other suit. Why not run a Gal logi with a focused scanner? Just play how you want to play. The dampeners are at 25% and the precisions are at 20%. It makes sense if you look at other classes then scouts. Heavies are 60/55, Assaults are 50/50, Logi's are 50/45 and Scouts are 35/45. Aside from scouts, all suit profiles are higher than precision, so they need a higher dampener bonus to be able to get lower. Pre 1.8 the scouts were just like the other suits.
Umma Kabula Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 22	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:07:00 - [94] - Quote Ok, this is a troll, right?[/quote] Yes what you wrote is a troll, his makes sense. Sorry if someone doesn't like 1 mod being greater than 4. I guess 1 heatsink on an amarr scout should be greater than 4 armor plates on the gallente scout because that would be balanced to you right? (I understand that they are different, but there is a correlary here tha.... nevermind, if you don't get it you are pants-on-head-******.)[/quote] Lol fact is that scanning tables were well known before 1.8 release and now you are complaining about the values. LOL Aszazel wrote:** First of all, its not my problem that you are taking the faster shield regen scout with the most high slots and not using any of them for shield extenders. Secondly, my point remains that all of your precision modules are to defeat the one class that you aren't meant to defeat. Why don't you accept that you can see 95% of all enemies with 1 complex precision mod and live with the fact that you may get killed by a Gal, (I use my eyes, they are OP). And thirdly, you're argument is two sided. I can't stack more than two complex precision mods in my highs, and I will still not be able to see you if you run ONE DAMPENER cause CAL's SEE BETTER and GAL'S HIDE BETTER. JUST ACCEPT YOUR ROLE. THIS. I wouldn't say it with better words. You can see almost EVERY SUIT IN THE GAME EXCEPT 1. deal with it. I have both gal and cal. They're both GREAT. they have different roles and playstyles. if you can't manage this that's your problem. You can see amarr and minnie AS SOON AS THEY DECLOAK. doesn't tihis seem right to you? Were you a gallogi before 1.8, right? thnx for all the fish! Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
Umma Kabula Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 22	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:29:00 - [95] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening? I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal. Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses Range Reps Damps And the ability to be a ghosts The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us. Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? As stated before, this sounds right to me. With a Cal you can see more or less everyone on the field except the most stealthier scouts. I run both Gal and Cal, they both have PROs and CONs. With a gal you're invisible to everyone, but you're not gonna see other scouts. even putting 2 complex prec enh won't be that much of a gain. With a cal you're less invisible, but you see a lot with your passive scan. They fill different roles. I don't even put damps (just in some match) because I don't care to be that invisible due to te fact that I can see others... like it was for the logies (or just the scanners) before 1.8. Gal has 3 HP/s armor rep, Cal has 50 HP/s shield rep.From my point of view, that's mazing Gal can surely be ghosts, that's their role. But they're "blind" ghosts compared to Cals. The range is equal at the base. you have more lows on the Gal, but you have to fit at least one damp to make them work. As Cals need to put at least one prec ehn to get a real gain from the bonus. That's not a 1vs1. You run in a squad vs another squad. thnx for all the fish! Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 37	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:50:00 - [96] - Quote Umma Kabula wrote: THIS. I wouldn't say it with better words. You can see almost EVERY SUIT IN THE GAME EXCEPT 1. deal with it. I have both gal and cal. They're both GREAT. they have different roles and playstyles. if you can't manage this that's your problem. You can see amarr and minnie AS SOON AS THEY DECLOAK. doesn't tihis seem right to you? Were you a gallogi before 1.8, right? Yes, Cal's can see most units, is it right? Nope. Can every other scout in the game see every non-scout dropsuit? Yep. Do they have different playstyles? Dependent solely upon the player. Is it right that a Min and Amarr Scout can be seen when they decloak if they only have 1 or 2 profile dampeners while the Cal Scout has 2 or 3 precision enhancers? Yep. Why? Because its more fair. A Cal scout has to place more mods on because you do not have equal percentages to profile dampeners. When you take away the cloak you should be seen. Was I a gallente logi before 1.8? Nope. Minmatar Logi, Minmatar Scout, Minmatar Assault. And I sacrificed 2 low slots for profile dampeners to avoid advanced active scanners. Was I seen by proto scanners? Yes, because the cost versus the benefit of putting on more profile dampeners was too high. However, to avoid the spamming of basics and advanced active scanners the cost/benefit ratio was within acceptable ranges. Was I easier to kill? Yes, but it was a tradeoff to avoid some players. Just like with the Minmatar, the Amarr, and the Caldari Scouts. You sacrifice some of your slots to avoid or see certain players. The Gallente? Most don't need to sacrifice a single slot since they have the 25% bonus of the suit skill itself and the 25% bonus of ALL cloaks. If I have 3 or more precision mods then they need only 1 profile dampener to avoid me. I accept that I must sacrifice some of my slots to be able to see players but CCP has made it too easy for other scouts to avoid the cal scout. Am I bitching about 1 type of suit versus all the other suits? Maybe I am, but what I'm really complaining about is that they have made it too easy to profile damp scouts and have created an imbalance. I'm sorry if no one else shares in my opinion. I'm not trying to ask for a buff to cal scouts, I'm just asking for a little more fair play and sacrifice. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 753	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:56:00 - [97] - Quote Hate this. With max skills and equal number of enhancers / damps for the Caldari and Gallente scout respectively, the Gallente scout will always hide from a Caldari scout. It should be the other way around, with the cloak throwing the balance to the Gallente's favor to hide. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
sebastian the huds Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 76	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:03:00 - [98] - Quote Scout ck.0 4 complex shield extenders 2 enhanced shield regulators 1 adv cloak Adv weapon of choice I would say that this fit is able to kill anything it targets. Plus, gal scout can hide from cal scout passive; but this is where player skill kicks in and says "That scout probably doesn't have much tank, so if I find him with my eyes he is a dead man." Yes, I will see you through the smoke and flames on the frontlines of war
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:09:00 - [99] - Quote If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max. QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 278	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:19:00 - [100] - Quote Aszazel wrote: If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max. QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. What are you going on about? You don't understand why Precision Enhancers and Profile Dampeners and the exact number of modules should CHANGE the out come of whether or not a Gallente scout can be scanned by a Caldari Scout? Or a Gallente Logi? Because the modules modify our abilities. The modules CHANGE our abilities per module. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.

Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 757	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:21:00 - [101] - Quote Aszazel wrote: If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max. QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again. The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 38	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:22:00 - [102] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Hate this. With max skills and equal number of enhancers / damps for the Caldari and Gallente scout respectively, the Gallente scout will always hide from a Caldari scout. It should be the other way around, with the cloak throwing the balance to the Gallente's favor to hide. Seems perfectly reasonable. Equal number of modules, bonuses... yes, the cloak would be a good deciding factor. +1. +1 for actually paying attention to what the thread was about (if I could I would have given you the second +1). Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 38	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:23:00 - [103] - Quote sebastian the huds wrote: Scout ck.0 4 complex shield extenders 2 enhanced shield regulators 1 adv cloak Adv weapon of choice I would say that this fit is able to kill anything it targets. Plus, gal scout can hide from cal scout passive; but this is where player skill kicks in and says "That scout probably doesn't have much tank, so if I find him with my eyes he is a dead man." Nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 40	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:32:00 - [104] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Aszazel wrote: If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max. QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again. The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari. Thank you. +1. Wasn't sure if some people could read properly. I can not make my argument more clear. I am not saying that the Caldari SHOULD be able to see the gallente scout. I'm not saying that I want a buff to the Caldari scout in any way what-so-ever. I'm asking that there is more equality in EWAR. 4 modules versus 1 module and cloak is not equal. If the Gal Scout wishes to remain invisible versus a Cal scout then he/she should have to sacrifice more of those low slots to avoid Cal scouts or Gallente Logis. Base stats already dictate that gallente should be able to avoid cal scouts. Fine. However, CCP has then created the imbalance in EWAR. Realize that this is the ******* point I am trying to make! There is an imbalance in EWAR. That means that there needs to be a PROPER adjustment that does not make something OP but rather powerful enough to do something only, and I do mean ONLY, to be if they are weak enough in some other scenario. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:01:00 - [105] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Aszazel wrote: If you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal, it's been advertised this way before the suits even came out. Why should a specific number of enhancers or dampeners change this? Every person in this post that has b!tched has done so because they want to be able to see ALL suits if they equip all precisions. I don't see any of them stating that they would be ok with the fact that if they ran 4 precisions and gal ran 4 dampeners and they couldn't see them it would be fair. It's not about the number of modules, its about the fact that you can't see them. If you can't see them at base, you shouldn't be able to see them at max if they are both at max. QQ'ers, Gal can't run more than 2 precisions and doing so, can't see other scouts with 1 complex dampeners + cloak. Stop whining that your suit isn't OP enough. You've completely missed the point. The Caldari suit is designed to see. The Gallente suit is designed to not be seen. One of them will have to trump the other. It turns out the the Gallente suit beats out the Caldari suit. If skills are equal, the Caldari fits an enhancer and can see the Gallente (unless the Gallente is cloaked). If the Gallente fits a damp, it's invisible again. The cloak tips the balance extremely to the Gallente, so the above pattern should be changed. The way is should be is that with max skills (using this as a baseline, not because I don't understand if you take the base suits of each, the Gal gets under the Cal), the Gallente should have to fit a damp to hide from the Caldari. If the Caldari fits an enhancer, he should see the Gallente. If the Gallente cloaks, with max skills and equal number of damps/enhancers, the Gallente should be hidden from the Caldari. Thank you. +1. Wasn't sure if some people could read properly. I can not make my argument more clear. I am not saying that the Caldari SHOULD be able to see the gallente scout. I'm not saying that I want a buff to the Caldari scout in any way what-so-ever. I'm asking that there is more equality in EWAR. 4 modules versus 1 module and cloak is not equal. If the Gal Scout wishes to remain invisible versus a Cal scout then he/she should have to sacrifice more of those low slots to avoid Cal scouts or Gallente Logis. Base stats already dictate that gallente should be able to avoid cal scouts. Fine. However, CCP has then created the imbalance in EWAR. Realize that this is the ******* point I am trying to make! There is an imbalance in EWAR. That means that there needs to be a PROPER adjustment that does not make something OP but rather powerful enough to do something only, and I do mean ONLY, to be if they are weak enough in some other scenario. Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL. But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 291	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:03:00 - [106] - Quote Joel II X wrote: It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining. Caldari Scout gets: -enhanced shielding with quick shield regen -scan as well -high precision -can also be ghosts Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it. Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Then how do we nerf eyes!?!?!? "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 5090	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:09:00 - [107] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening? I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal. Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses Range Reps Damps And the ability to be a ghosts The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us. Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? Well, In THEORY , a Gal scout with 4 Complex Profile dampeners will avoid a cal Scout with 4 CX precision enhancers ( SPECIALLY if he is cloaked). But the thing is , its not a VIABLE fit. The msot profile dampeners i run is 1 cx on my Gal and 2 on my Cal scout, making it for a CAl Scout with 3 cx precision enhancer to be able to see me.(IF not cloaked) Again. I dont think anyone Would or SHOULD equip more than 2 Complex Dampeners/Enhancers/RAnge Amplifiers (the same moddule, i actually use a grand total of 5 of these modules combined on my Gk.0....). Now what breaks the math a little further for the GAL Scout side, is hte extra 25% dampening of the cloak.... That it should be removed. So taht CAl scouts can effectivley detect scouts that are not Specialized DAMPENED E-war scouts, giving tanked & Speed tanked scouts the advantage of EHP and Speed,but NOT of Profile dampening, as it is now. Sorry beforehand for the mispellings... Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 758	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:13:00 - [108] - Quote Aszazel wrote: Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL. But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too. See, this is a totally subjective thing. Watch this. You want to be able to hide from every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to GAL. I can QQ about subjective BS without a well thought out argument, too. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 280	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:13:00 - [109] - Quote Aszazel wrote: Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL. But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too. GÇªnice straw man you have there? No one said anything about the removal of the cloak bonus. What he said was it was a temporary buff that would act (if modules and skill bonuses are equal) as a great deciding factor. Truthfully, we need more things that affect our Profile stat in real time, not less. A Cal Scout does not "Top out" before a Gal Scout. Both have the same number of slots to work with and both have to decide between Ewar Modules or HP modules. If a Cal Scout sacrifices its defensive capabilities to the extent where it has no HP modules, it should take a similar sacrifice by the Gallente to stay under its radar. But it doesn't. A Cal Scout (or a minmatar scout, or a Gallente Logi with Active scanners for that matter) will not be able to detect a Gallente scout. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:19:00 - [110] - Quote Here is the thing I guess I am not getting about all this whining, say they buff precision to 25% instead of 20% so they are in line with dampeners. Gal's start at 35db profile, and Cal's start at 45db precision, so with the cloak that all suits equally get the 25% bonus for, and adding the gal's suit bonus, and the cal's suit bonus. You will still top out of precision before the gal tops out in dampening. So this post is pointless unless your aim is to increase precision modules and to make other suits more powerful at picking up scouts. Your argument to buff precision would be pointless in the gal vs cal example. So what do you want to whine about next here? remove the bonus for cloaks to all suits? A finite resource that requires intelligent management so you have it when you need it? Make the game as dumbed down as possible?

Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:21:00 - [111] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Aszazel wrote: Get off your soapbox, the cloak counts as a dampener, its that way for al suits, its doesn't have a 100% up time and every other scout suit (+ some logis and commandos) gets to wear one. They are by no means cheap to equip even if you have suit level 5. The "problem" you keep coming too is that you have to add more precision mods to counter my dampeners + cloak and you top out before me. You want to be able to see every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to CAL. But fine, take away cloak bonus for all, cause its not fair that I can only hold two precision enhancers and still can't see a cloaked scout. See I can QQ about the state of the EWAR too. See, this is a totally subjective thing. Watch this. You want to be able to hide from every suit, there is NOTHING wrong with EWAR, there SHOULD be a hard counter to GAL. I can QQ about subjective BS without a well thought out argument, too. There IS a hard counter to GAL's, we can't see any other scouts or other gal's. We may be unscannable but we are running blind, thats why I learned to use my OP eyes.
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:24:00 - [112] - Quote Not to mention a Gal Logi with bonus running a focused scanner will pick up any gal that doesn't have 3 dampeners on,
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 40	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:26:00 - [113] - Quote Some REALLY HARD Facts for you all: Gallente Scout - Cloak & Bonus 35 Base scan profile 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 25% cloak dampener effect = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 1st dampener = 17.71875 * 75% = 13.2890625 2nd dampener = 13.2890625 * 78% = 10.36546875 3rd dampener = 10.36546875 * 86% = 8.914303125 4th dampener = 8.914303125 * 93% = 8.29030190625 Gallente Scout - No Cloak 35 Base scan profile 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625 3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375 4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875 Gallente Scout - No bonus (What I would like) 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Cloak Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625 3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375 4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875 Caldari Scout 40 Base Scan Precision 10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36 Scout Bonus (Caldari) = 36 * 75% = 27 1st Precision Enhancer = 27 * 80% = 21.6 2nd Precision Enhancer = 21.6 * 83% = 17.928 3rd Precision Enhancer = 17.928 * 89% = 15.95592 4th Precision Enhancer = 15.95592 * 94% = 14.9985648 Minmatar/Amarr Scout 40 Base Scan Precision 10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36 1st Precision Enhancer = 36 * 80% = 28.8 2nd Precision Enhancer = 28.8 * 83% = 23.904 3rd Precision Enhancer = 23.904 * 89% = 21.27456 4th Precision Enhancer = 21.27456 * 94% = 19.9980864 Gallente Logi (proto) Precision mods do not affect the active scanner!!!!! Proto Active Scanner = 15db This will be my last response. From this we can see that a Gal Scout needs 1 profile Dampener and cloak to remain invisible to everyone in the game. My recommendations? Change the Gallente Scout bonus off of profile Dampening AT THE ******* LEAST! With that 25% bonus gone you can see that a Gallente Scout can still remain invisible to EVERYONE IN THE GAME with just 2 profile dampeners and a cloak. To those who can read, to those who understand the topic of this thread, to those who can do the math for yourself what I'm saying should be understandable. If you don't like it, fine, if you like it good. To the Trolls and Idiots, I'm done with you. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with 'your people' any more. Go back and read my posts in this thread and have a nice day. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 759	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:29:00 - [114] - Quote Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong. Assume max skills for all the examples below. A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners. The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit. Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Umma Kabula Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 23	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:38:00 - [115] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's the only suit capable of beating your scans. Quit your whining. Caldari Scout gets: -enhanced shielding with quick shield regen -scan as well -high precision -can also be ghosts Just because your natural enemy chose to go under your radar doesn't mean you should whine about it. Equip CPX Precision Mods. Chances are, most Gallente Scouts are armor tanking, not dampning. I'll still get under your radar, but that doesn't mean others will. Just use your eyes. Eyes are OP. Then how do we nerf eyes!?!?!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUqcUUcVc5U thnx for all the fish! Umma Kabula, Wolfgang Tee Funk, Il Gallo Cedrone. Sono uno e trino.
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 439	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:39:00 - [116] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I don't really see a balance in this, is the gal supposed to be unstoppable with dampening? I'm to tired to do maths, and I kinda been not paying much attention to exact numbers since the 1.8 changes, all I know is gal scout an two damps trumps my cal. Sure it's fine if you got backup but shouldn't cal see all? To me gal gets 4 bonuses Range Reps Damps And the ability to be a ghosts The passive abilitys cancel one another out an because of percision mods being 20% and damps being 25% and stacking plus cloaks a gal is always gonna hide and kill us. Is this right ? Should enhances be equal? enhancers are also squad shared atm Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 439	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:41:00 - [117] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong. Assume max skills for all the examples below. A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners. The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit. Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit. gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:41:00 - [118] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Some REALLY HARD Facts for you all: Gallente Scout - Cloak & Bonus 35 Base scan profile 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 25% cloak dampener effect = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 1st dampener = 17.71875 * 75% = 13.2890625 2nd dampener = 13.2890625 * 78% = 10.36546875 3rd dampener = 10.36546875 * 86% = 8.914303125 4th dampener = 8.914303125 * 93% = 8.29030190625 Gallente Scout - No Cloak 35 Base scan profile 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Scout Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625 3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375 4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875 Gallente Scout - No bonus (What I would like) 10% Dampener bonus itself = 35 * 90% = 31.5 25% Cloak Bonus (Gallente) = 31.5 * 75% = 23.625 1st dampener = 23.625 * 75% = 17.71875 2nd dampener = 17.71875 * 78% = 13.820625 3rd dampener = 13.820625 * 86% = 11.8857375 4th dampener = 11.8857375 * 93% = 11.053735875 Caldari Scout 40 Base Scan Precision 10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36 Scout Bonus (Caldari) = 36 * 75% = 27 1st Precision Enhancer = 27 * 80% = 21.6 2nd Precision Enhancer = 21.6 * 83% = 17.928 3rd Precision Enhancer = 17.928 * 89% = 15.95592 4th Precision Enhancer = 15.95592 * 94% = 14.9985648 Minmatar/Amarr Scout 40 Base Scan Precision 10% Precision Bonus = 40 * 90% = 36 1st Precision Enhancer = 36 * 80% = 28.8 2nd Precision Enhancer = 28.8 * 83% = 23.904 3rd Precision Enhancer = 23.904 * 89% = 21.27456 4th Precision Enhancer = 21.27456 * 94% = 19.9980864 Gallente Logi (proto) Precision mods do not affect the active scanner!!!!! Proto Active Scanner = 15db This will be my last response. From this we can see that a Gal Scout needs 1 profile Dampener and cloak to remain invisible to everyone in the game. My recommendations? Change the Gallente Scout bonus off of profile Dampening AT THE ******* LEAST! With that 25% bonus gone you can see that a Gallente Scout can still remain invisible to EVERYONE IN THE GAME with just 2 profile dampeners and a cloak. To those who can read, to those who understand the topic of this thread, to those who can do the math for yourself what I'm saying should be understandable. If you don't like it, fine, if you like it good. To the Trolls and Idiots, I'm done with you. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with 'your people' any more. Go back and read my posts in this thread and have a nice day. You would not need to show what the Gal would be like without the suit bonus because that is the current state of EVERY CURRENT SCOUT SUIT. I will grant you all the numbers would be fairer if all scout had a base of 40 db instead of 35. And I know that Gallenete Logi precision modules do not increase the scanner. however, the BONUS TO Gallanete Logi is 5% better scan per level WITH A SCANNER. So it would be 15db * 0.25 = 11.25 db The Gal scout had a bonus to dampening before 1.8, so you are asking to do away with a bonus to a suit cause your suit that didn't exist 4 weeks ago can't see it.
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 187	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:45:00 - [119] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Actually, I looked over numbers again in protofits. For some reason I thought enhancers and dampeners gave the same bonus. I thought without mods, the Gallente would be hidden and the Caldari scout would need to fit one mod (1 enhancer) to see the Gallente. The Gallente would need to fit one mod (1 dampener) to hide again, and the Caldari would need to fit one more (2 enhancers). I thought it would continue like that 1 for 1. I was wrong. Assume max skills for all the examples below. A Caldari scout with four complex precision enhancers CANNOT see a Gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners. The Caldari scout has a scan precision of 14.91. The Gallente scout has a scan profile of 13.87. The lower number wins. That's bullshit. Actually, if the Gallente scout has just one complex profile dampener, the Caldari scout needs three complex precision enhancers to see him. That's even more bullshit. gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions Are you kidding? A Gal can't see a Cal with two comp precisions even if the cal only has ONE dampener + cloak, the CAL is the only suit that gets this bonus and its awesome. That's why I keep arguing with everyone, your suit is awesome, stop complaining that its not awesome.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 760	Posted - 2014.04.16 01:02:00 - [120] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: gallente cannot see a caldari if the caldari is wearing 2 comp damps and the gal is wearing two comp precisions This specific argument has no basis in this discussion. The Gal scout's role isn't to see, it's to not be seen. Aszazel wrote: Are you kidding? A Gal can't see a Cal with two comp precisions even if the cal only has ONE dampener + cloak, the CAL is the only suit that gets this bonus and its awesome. That's why I keep arguing with everyone, your suit is awesome, stop complaining that its not awesome. Are you dense? It's not my suit. I'm not arguing this because I run a CalScout. I'm arguing it because it's bullshit. This specific argument has no basis in this discussion. The Gal scout's role isn't to see, it's to not be seen. Also, you're wrong and act like active scanners don't exist anymore. With a single complex dampener and cloak the CalScout cannot hide from a Duvolle Focused. With two complex dampeners and a cloak the CalScout can only hide from a Duvolle Focused while cloaked. I don't ***** about it though because every other scout can do that, and their role isn't to hide. At this point you're arguing to argue. A fix is needed and would be as simple as switching the CalScout base profile and precision, or any other number of methods. Deal with it. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.



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