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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1300	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:03:00 - [1] - Quote Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
The Attorney General 1855	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:07:00 - [2] - Quote It is mostly the damage mods, although, if they dropped rail damage by 200 at MLT, and 100 everywhere else, it would be a good start before they get to work on fixing damage mods. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 85	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:11:00 - [3] - Quote Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2221	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:13:00 - [4] - Quote I popped 6 ADS in one match, today. They finally managed to pop me but by then I had swapped to a stock Sica for laughs. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1621	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:14:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. I would rather they balance vehicle to infantry play before they make vehicles harder to destroy by vehicles. You should instead be asking for a buff to dropships. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12395	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:15:00 - [6] - Quote While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 636	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:15:00 - [7] - Quote Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/20
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 637	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:22:00 - [8] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Should a tank be able to attack a dropship hovering over it? I think that's a great check to solo tanks and forces tanks to use teamwork. Firing volley after volley of missiles or rails at a tank can take a while even of stock militia fits, not even to mention if there are repairs or hardeners fitted as well. This leaves the dropship vulnerable to AV or other tanks, meaning if there's something, even a militia swarm, firing at the dropship, it can effectively protect the tank or at least make the dropship's attempt more difficult. Allowing tanks to be self-sufficiently defensive takes away from the teamwork aspect of the game. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/20
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2221	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:23:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Flak cannons confirmed. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1302	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:25:00 - [10] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. Understood. But we sometimes need to know they hear us. Just so we can shut up. Also the low angle is not true,, look at this... the red circle is where a rail can hit us from.. the blue where they are too close to hit us. IF we are at 100m up. At 50m... there is nowhere to hide...ever. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight

ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 87	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:30:00 - [11] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. Understood. But we sometimes need to know they hear us. Just so we can shut up. Also the low angle is not true,, look at this... the red circle is where a rail can hit us from.. the blue where they are too close to hit us. IF we are at 100m up. At 50m... there is nowhere to hide...ever. I can totally understand certain frustrations. Just for clarification - where would the enemy tank be in that scenario? At the red line or bang in the middle of the blue dot? Also for arguments sake, say the railgun was changed in some fashion - what then would be the way to destroy dropships. I am not talking about the militia fit basic ones, I mean those of you like yourself and foxhound as well as others that are either really damaging with there ADS or tank the hell out of there ships?
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3838	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:32:00 - [12] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 637	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:34:00 - [13] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. What's the counter to a redline rail tank? Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/20
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1304	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:34:00 - [14] - Quote A tank could be anywhere in that red zone and hit a dropship at the green dot IF the dropship is 200m up. If it is 100m up the ONLY place on the entire map a rail tank cannot hit it is in the blue zone. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 36	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:40:00 - [15] - Quote Yeah let's nerf the only thing that can kill Assault Dropships! Cause no one likes losing the most OP weapon on the battle field. My opinion is the Rail tank is the only thing keeping vehicle drivers honest. Broken as they may be. Another opinion would be, that this game has no need for tanks and Dropship that don't need gunners to kill. But I'm just a merc trying to make it in this new Eden. "Long live the Empress, unless you have some isk"
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 87	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:44:00 - [16] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. What's the counter to a redline rail tank? Removing the red like or adjusting it in some way - this would solve many problems in my honest opinion.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 637	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:47:00 - [17] - Quote VonSpliff wrote: Yeah let's nerf the only thing that can kill Assault Dropships! Cause no one likes losing the most OP weapon on the battle field. My opinion is the Rail tank is the only thing keeping vehicle drivers honest. Broken as they may be. Another opinion would be, that this game has no need for tanks and Dropship that don't need gunners to kill. But I'm just a merc trying to make it in this new Eden. The problem with the rail tank is it's range and it's ability to sit with virtual impunity behind the redline while denying much of the playable map to dropship and other vehicles. A reduction to range is needed to prevent redline abuse while still allowing tanks to fulfill the role of high damage, long range AV. No one want or should want to make rails worthless, the aim should be to make them fair. I must laugh that you assume rails are the only thing checking dropship. Forges are still very viable (due to their mobility and ability to hide). Even swarms give me trouble when they knock me around in tight quarters or near structures and throw off my aim and flight paths. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/20
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3839	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:50:00 - [18] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. What's the counter to a redline rail tank? Another Rail tank. (Just as Tankers always wanted...) GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1306	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:51:00 - [19] - Quote I realize we have discussed this issue. But in this thread I am asking CCP directly, to let us know they hear us. That is why it is worth raising this again. This is not a little thing. This is a big issue. Some things CCP can read and understand but not respond to. This is different. This is game breaking. The community has earned a response on this.. ISK has been lost, and people have had their game sessions ruined by this. I politely ask CCP to respond, as they have not done so far. Not to give them grief but to ask them to understand us. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3839	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:51:00 - [20] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. What's the counter to a redline rail tank? Removing the red like or adjusting it in some way - this would solve many problems in my honest opinion. Exactly. The problem is the Redline. Not the rail turrets themselves. GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:51:00 - [21] - Quote Outside of Rail tanks what else is there? Forge Gun and...?
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1704	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:54:00 - [22] - Quote No! The problem is the redline. Remove the redline! Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 261	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:57:00 - [23] - Quote it takes 2-3 clips of proto swarms to take down a DS. Which means 2-3 people running swarms can coordinate to to fire 1 volley each together and take down a derpship..... instant death It takes 2 Breach forge shots to take down derpship... you need atleast 2 people with a breach and coordinate a shot at the same time.... instant death if both shots hit Takes two damage modded rail shots to kill a derpship, with two tanks coordinating at the same time they can kill a derpship easily.... instant death if both shots hit Is it possible to solo a derpship? Yes, two breach shots tactically shot will kill a derpship by ONE forger.... A lot harder than using two people forging... two damage modded rail shots can kill a derpship.... 1 tank with 2 strategic shots can kill a derpship... The most difficult one.... 2 clips of swarms can kill a derpship (6 volleys assuming a clip holds 3)... you cant just shot whenever... you need to wait until a derpship ends up in a vulnerable spot and then unload on it... Patience is the key. Same applies to tanks. People that seen me fly see me hovering over an enemy tank without shooting at it... I wait until I have it in a place where I know I'll have the advantage.... I wait until the tank moves a bit away from the redline... I wait until the tank places himself in a tight spot so when I start shooting he'll just start driving into walls and boxes... I am a bird of prey... and like most predators, I know that patience is the required to achieve victory. I dont believe tanks are op... I believe the rail turret is... I know how to kill a tank with its hardeners on... and believe me its not easy. But it isnt impossible. Same applies to derpships. But if you are not willing to take the time and own your skills and learn the weaknesses of a derpship... you will fail... I am not an AV... But I took the time to learn where the strengths in swarsm, rails, and forges are... And made sure I never put myself in such a spot where they have the advantage.... but sometimes they give me no choice. Luck is just one of my skills
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 637	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:05:00 - [24] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Outside of Rail tanks what else is there? Forge Gun and...? Who said anything about making rail obsolete? You make it seem like we don't want any counters or checks. All we're saying is that there's a serious imbalance between not only rails and dropships, but rails in general. Ask yourself, outside of another rail tank, what can stop a rail in the redline? Or heck, a rail in general? They can kill every other type of tank (at least the Gunnogi can survive a missile tank), and I'm sure I don't need to mention how difficult AV is to use against a tank, let alone a redline rail. Yet they can reach out and kill virtual any vehicle on the playable map. All I'm asking for (idk about others) is a slight reduction to effective range with a drop-off range. Nothing that will prevent them from doing their role of a long range AV. This will force rails out of the redline if they wish to partake in the battle effectively. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/20
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:11:00 - [25] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: it takes 2-3 clips of proto swarms to take down a DS. Which means 2-3 people running swarms can coordinate to to fire 1 volley each together and take down a derpship..... instant death It takes 2 Breach forge shots to take down derpship... you need atleast 2 people with a breach and coordinate a shot at the same time.... instant death if both shots hit Takes two damage modded rail shots to kill a derpship, with two tanks coordinating at the same time they can kill a derpship easily.... instant death if both shots hit Is it possible to solo a derpship? Yes, two breach shots tactically shot will kill a derpship by ONE forger.... A lot harder than using two people forging... two damage modded rail shots can kill a derpship.... 1 tank with 2 strategic shots can kill a derpship... The most difficult one.... 2 clips of swarms can kill a derpship (6 volleys assuming a clip holds 3)... you cant just shot whenever... you need to wait until a derpship ends up in a vulnerable spot and then unload on it... Patience is the key. Same applies to tanks. People that seen me fly see me hovering over an enemy tank without shooting at it... I wait until I have it in a place where I know I'll have the advantage.... I wait until the tank moves a bit away from the redline... I wait until the tank places himself in a tight spot so when I start shooting he'll just start driving into walls and boxes... I am a bird of prey... and like most predators, I know that patience is the required to achieve victory. I dont believe tanks are op... I believe the rail turret is... I know how to kill a tank with its hardeners on... and believe me its not easy. But it isnt impossible. Same applies to derpships. But if you are not willing to take the time and own your skills and learn the weaknesses of a derpship... you will fail... I am not an AV... But I took the time to learn where the strengths in swarsm, rails, and forges are... And made sure I never put myself in such a spot where they have the advantage.... but sometimes they give me no choice. This is a lie, you may can down a militia with 3 shots, my proto swarms with 2 damage mods is not downing them with a clip, because hardeners will always activate long before then. Flyers can also EASILY avoid swarms, veteran Flyers laughed at swarms before 1.7. If you are being hit by a 3rd swarm volley, you are a bad flyer. A single swarmer isn't downing dropships, 2 more than likely not going to either. The flyers knows your location the moment you shoot your swarms, and with 150 range, DS can easily zone you while racking kills/transporting, while you and your buddy is sitting in that 1 spot being useless to the team and gaining no WP.
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 261	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:18:00 - [26] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: This is a lie, you may can down a militia with 3 shots, my proto swarms with 2 damage mods is not downing them with a clip, because hardeners will always activate long before then. Flyers can also EASILY avoid swarms, veteran Flyers laughed at swarms before 1.7. If you are being hit by a 3rd swarm volley, you are a bad flyer. A single swarmer isn't downing dropships, 2 more than likely not going to either. The flyers knows your location the moment you shoot your swarms, and with 150 range, DS can easily zone you while racking kills/transporting, while you and your buddy is sitting in that 1 spot being useless to the team and gaining no WP. Team up with another swarmer or forger or tanker????? Luck is just one of my skills
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:23:00 - [27] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: This is a lie, you may can down a militia with 3 shots, my proto swarms with 2 damage mods is not downing them with a clip, because hardeners will always activate long before then. Flyers can also EASILY avoid swarms, veteran Flyers laughed at swarms before 1.7. If you are being hit by a 3rd swarm volley, you are a bad flyer. A single swarmer isn't downing dropships, 2 more than likely not going to either. The flyers knows your location the moment you shoot your swarms, and with 150 range, DS can easily zone you while racking kills/transporting, while you and your buddy is sitting in that 1 spot being useless to the team and gaining no WP. Team up with another swarmer or forger or tanker????? Swarmer no. The problem is 2 Forgers or 2 tankers do it much better than 2 swarm users. Currently the DS isn't really threatened by the swarm user until it is to the point where a Mass Driver could have done the same thing.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 285	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:40:00 - [28] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: This is a lie, you may can down a militia with 3 shots, my proto swarms with 2 damage mods is not downing them with a clip, because hardeners will always activate long before then. Flyers can also EASILY avoid swarms, veteran Flyers laughed at swarms before 1.7. If you are being hit by a 3rd swarm volley, you are a bad flyer. A single swarmer isn't downing dropships, 2 more than likely not going to either. The flyers knows your location the moment you shoot your swarms, and with 150 range, DS can easily zone you while racking kills/transporting, while you and your buddy is sitting in that 1 spot being useless to the team and gaining no WP. The bolded portion shows your complete misunderstanding of pre-1.7 AV-Dropship balance: a single Swarm Launcher in 1.6 meant that every Python was shot down and every Incubus was either driven off for the majority of the battle...or shot down. Now ADS's are a very potent threat, but there exist dangers to them: they are certainly not easy to pilot, their controls required climatisation and practice and utilising their firepower requires further honing of skill; whilst Hardeners have given them a great lease of life, they are far from indestructible, a Forge Gun will do serious damage to an ADS and will at least force the pilot to attempt to remove the threat (not an easy task, as they need to acquire the target under buffeting fire and survive incoming fire while having enough time left to combat the threat) or disengage (which, whilst not yet rewarded, is just as valuable to your team as killing it), Swarm Launchers are incredibly powerful AV support weapons (they will do little to nothing to a Hardened vehicle but they still do substantial damage to an unhardened one: coordinated fire of a Forger and 1-2 Swarm Launchers is an extremely potent weapon against all forms of vehicle, but Dropships especially); Blaster and Missile turrets are both great threats to an ADS (a Blaster catching a low dropship will rip it apart in seconds unless the pilot has fast reflexes and decent skill enough to know how to manoeuvre post-engagement; a Missile turret can alpha a dropship quite reasonably [I've done it enough myself] it's just not as effective as a Railgun). The real crux of the debate is the Large Railgun turret. Almost every ADS pilot you will meet will say that the LRT is stupidly powerful: the reason for this is the range, hitting power and speed: it hits you from close to (if not out of) maximum rendering distance; it hits you with enough power to two-shot you out of the sky; and it fires the second shot so rapidly after the first lands that you have less than a second and a half to react - let me tell you something: a second and a half is nothing when you have to decide: what modules do I have to activate? In what order? What's the best way to regain control of my ship now that it's lurching wildly from the hit? Where do I move to? Up? Down? Where was the shot from, so I can evade it's line of fire? And at the end of the day, the LRT is probably fine. It is the safety of the redline that boils the blood of so many pilots. A railgun can, with impunity, swat Dropships from the sky all day long and have no predators to worry about except for other railguns. Without the threat of retaliation, it makes it trivial to destroy Dropships and that's where the imbalance lies. Without the threat of retaliation, without the potential for repercussions, a redline railgun has no reason to venture forward (since it has no predators and can reach out to the engagement area anyway), has no reason to fit survivability modules (since the only threat is another railgun) and has no reason to care. TL;DR: The redline facilitates the power of the railgun, which takes it from 'extremely deadly but counterable' to 'extremely deadly with no counter but itself.'
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3849	Posted - 2014.01.21 02:42:00 - [29] - Quote @ Sir Snugglz : it takes 2-3 clips of proto swarms to take down a DS. Which means 2-3 people running swarms can coordinate to to fire 1 volley each together and take down a derpship..... instant death -So, the DS pilot can be playing alone and being effective while a COORDINATED attack is needed to take it down with swarm launchers? Seems Legit AKA: Swarms are not the answer. It takes 2 Breach forge shots to take down derpship... you need atleast 2 people with a breach and coordinate a shot at the same time.... instant death if both shots hit -Again so we need teamwork,location,run a heavy and be lucky enough that infantry does not own the FG heavy to take down a Ship that it takes only 1 pilot to operate?. Takes two damage modded rail shots to kill a derpship, with two tanks coordinating at the same time they can kill a derpship easily.... instant death if both shots hit -Exactly, R turrets are a counter to DS. Is it possible to solo a derpship? Yes, two breach shots tactically shot will kill a derpship by ONE forger.... A lot harder than using two people forging... -Yes ,but finding a scrub pilot that wont Fly away after the first one is not as easy. PLUS ,FGs are the second counter to DS. two damage modded rail shots can kill a derpship.... 1 tank with 2 strategic shots can kill a derpship... -Yes its one of the counters to DS The most difficult one.... 2 clips of swarms can kill a derpship (6 volleys assuming a clip holds 3)... you cant just shot whenever... you need to wait until a derpship ends up in a vulnerable spot and then unload on it... LOL. 2 CLIPS of swarms? Thats not happening. Overall, you just explained why swarms dont work. And remarked that FG and Rail turrets are the only true counters to Dropships. So they should stay,not to mention add Further counters. GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 49	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:01:00 - [30] - Quote I two shot Drops Ships all the time with my Ishukone Assault Forge. I'm pro 5 and run 2 complex damage mods on my AV fit. I'm also a ADS pilot and I promise you it's a hell of a lot easier to kill dropships than it is to kill with a dropship. Even if I don't smash the ADS in 2 hits he flys away and recalls it, or get ballsy and loses it trying to get me before I get him. Rails could have more of a damage drop off with range. That shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. Imagine how much fun it would be, too, if when your tanks got hit with AV weapons that they spun around!!!! Welcome to DS pilotting. We can pickle that.

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 624	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:07:00 - [31] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: This is a lie, you may can down a militia with 3 shots, my proto swarms with 2 damage mods is not downing them with a clip, because hardeners will always activate long before then. Flyers can also EASILY avoid swarms, veteran Flyers laughed at swarms before 1.7. If you are being hit by a 3rd swarm volley, you are a bad flyer. A single swarmer isn't downing dropships, 2 more than likely not going to either. The flyers knows your location the moment you shoot your swarms, and with 150 range, DS can easily zone you while racking kills/transporting, while you and your buddy is sitting in that 1 spot being useless to the team and gaining no WP. The bolded portion shows your complete misunderstanding of pre-1.7 AV-Dropship balance: a single Swarm Launcher in 1.6 meant that every Python was shot down and every Incubus was either driven off for the majority of the battle...or shot down. Now ADS's are a very potent threat, but there exist dangers to them: they are certainly not easy to pilot, their controls required climatisation and practice and utilising their firepower requires further honing of skill; whilst Hardeners have given them a great lease of life, they are far from indestructible, a Forge Gun will do serious damage to an ADS and will at least force the pilot to attempt to remove the threat (not an easy task, as they need to acquire the target under buffeting fire and survive incoming fire while having enough time left to combat the threat) or disengage (which, whilst not yet rewarded, is just as valuable to your team as killing it), Swarm Launchers are incredibly powerful AV support weapons (they will do little to nothing to a Hardened vehicle but they still do substantial damage to an unhardened one: coordinated fire of a Forger and 1-2 Swarm Launchers is an extremely potent weapon against all forms of vehicle, but Dropships especially); Blaster and Missile turrets are both great threats to an ADS (a Blaster catching a low dropship will rip it apart in seconds unless the pilot has fast reflexes and decent skill enough to know how to manoeuvre post-engagement; a Missile turret can alpha a dropship quite reasonably [I've done it enough myself] it's just not as effective as a Railgun). The real crux of the debate is the Large Railgun turret. Almost every ADS pilot you will meet will say that the LRT is stupidly powerful: the reason for this is the range, hitting power and speed: it hits you from close to (if not out of) maximum rendering distance; it hits you with enough power to two-shot you out of the sky; and it fires the second shot so rapidly after the first lands that you have less than a second and a half to react - let me tell you something: a second and a half is nothing when you have to decide: what modules do I have to activate? In what order? What's the best way to regain control of my ship now that it's lurching wildly from the hit? Where do I move to? Up? Down? Where was the shot from, so I can evade it's line of fire? And at the end of the day, the LRT is probably fine. It is the safety of the redline that boils the blood of so many pilots. A railgun can, with impunity, swat Dropships from the sky all day long and have no predators to worry about except for other railguns. Without the threat of retaliation, it makes it trivial to destroy Dropships and that's where the imbalance lies. Without the threat of retaliation, without the potential for repercussions, a redline railgun has no reason to venture forward (since it has no predators and can reach out to the engagement area anyway), has no reason to fit survivability modules (since the only threat is another railgun) and has no reason to care. TL;DR: The redline facilitates the power of the railgun, which takes it from 'extremely deadly but counterable' to 'extremely deadly with no counter but itself.' Yeah, complete bullshit, veteran Flyers activated burners and outran swarms pre-1.7 don't try to say it wasn't true. This was when swarms had a range for 400 meters. It took 3 full proto swarm shots to down dropships then, and you never got that full 3rd shot alone against dedicated flyers. Between the range and damage nerf, + hardeners buffed, avoiding swarms now is easy, you can do with with a militia ship without burners activated.
killer carrot top Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 5	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:11:00 - [32] - Quote Has any one took into account that while remaining a one player vehicle platform they still have to use an incredible amount of strategy when flying in solo or in tandem with another player is just calling it in and when lifting off the debate should I go to the ceiling or should I hug the terrain and look for a place to pounce and keep in mind constantly trying to detect the enemy from range with horrible rendering and so on and so forth whilst a ds is spotted a foot of the ground or a hundred. My thing is a time and thought consuming vehicle shouldn't be this easily trumped by a guy looking for a easy choice to lvl the playing field. Mind you I got respect for alot of aver due to the fact I would come storming and be met by many swarm or forge with players using team work to bait me really a thrill to out fly and win not always so but there is a fighting chance at least. With redline rails it take all that away. And yes horrible grammer, punctuation and run on sentences and what not. But this just my thoughts as a new ads pilot
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 716	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:13:00 - [33] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. WHAT I ACKNOWLEDGE is= DS have only 2 true counters, F.Guns and Rail turrets. Nerfing one of them would result in total DS domination. NO Ty. What's the counter to a redline rail tank? Removing the red like or adjusting it in some way - this would solve many problems in my honest opinion. Exactly. The problem is the Redline. Not the rail turrets themselves. Rail turrets are still broken, just even more so in the redline. Damage mod nerf and slight rail turret nerf is in order. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 716	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:14:00 - [34] - Quote As for the ADS being OP, I have one solution: Flak cannon "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
killer carrot top Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 5	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:17:00 - [35] - Quote Ads v infantry might be a little op but v a tank that's bs even basic fits are hard to kill with a xt missile launcher
Jason Pearson 4058	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:17:00 - [36] - Quote Your problem is the rail and map design, not the rails, as I explained before. A rail cannot look up that far unless on a hill that props the tank upwards. I know the DPS from the railgun is slightly excessive, it's why I wish for the Rail to have to charge each shot, allowing it to have a high alpha BUT won't fire as fast. The next step needs to be a nerf to damage mods, or make it so the "Railgun Damage Amplifier" does not increase the damage as much as a "Blaster Damage Amplifier", make sense? As I explained previously, the redzoned areas should be a no go area for all teams, and they should replace our current "safe" areas with green zones for you, and yellow zones for the enemy. Anybody can go into these zones but if a red is in the yellow zone (your green zone) it will light him up. Add defensive installations to the MCC that cannot be killed that can only hit inside the greenzone and must be manned to fire (no A.I) and you have a decent solution. Adding pods that fire you from the MCC that can only be activated if you're either redlined or there are enemies in your greenzone would also be a nice addition. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3856	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:18:00 - [37] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Rail turrets are still broken, just even more so in the redline. Damage mod nerf and slight rail turret nerf is in order. QQ NErf is in order. ;) GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Jimbo Boilstaff THE MASSIVE DYNAMIC 83	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:18:00 - [38] - Quote i'm a dropship pilot...... and i risk a huge amount of isk each time out for what could be a very quick encounter (damn you MCC!!).... I'm not annoyed about this,,,, its what this games like,, part of the risk and fun of being a pilot...... however it is frustrating, unfair even, to be repeatedly taken out by people who haven't even taken the slightest chance by leaving the safezone so no effective counter is feasible (apart from jihads perhaps but in the long-term i doubt these will be a feature much more) keep the rails as strong as they are,,, people are right-- ADS's unchecked would have a major impact on infantry battles (far moreso than the lumbersome cross-map tank battles that happen currently).... Just INCREASE the cost of tanks slightly (maybe x1.5),, ensure the damage mods are stacking correctly,,, and find a mechanic that prevents them sitting in a safezone hill all match killing all the turrets and vehicles that dare step into the actual playable part of the map
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3857	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:19:00 - [39] - Quote Jimbo Boilstaff wrote: i'm a dropship pilot...... and i risk a huge amount of isk each time out for what could be a very quick encounter (damn you MCC!!).... I'm not annoyed about this,,,, its what this games like,, part of the risk and fun of being a pilot...... however it is frustrating, unfair even, to be repeatedly taken out by people who haven't even taken the slightest chance by leaving the safezone so no effective counter is feasible (apart from jihads perhaps but in the long-term i doubt these will be a feature much more) keep the rails as strong as they are,,, people are right-- ADS's unchecked would have a major impact on infantry battles (far moreso than the lumbersome cross-map tank battles that happen currently).... Just INCREASE the cost of tanks slightly (maybe x1.5),, ensure the damage mods are stacking correctly,,, and find a mechanic that prevents them sitting in a safezone hill all match killing all the turrets and vehicles that dare step into the actual playable part of the map At last. Unbiased opinon by a DS pilot +1 GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
killer carrot top Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 5	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:19:00 - [40] - Quote +1 on idea jason

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2537	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:23:00 - [41] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: it takes 2-3 clips of proto swarms to take down a DS. Which means 2-3 people running swarms can coordinate to to fire 1 volley each together and take down a derpship..... instant death It takes 2 Breach forge shots to take down derpship... you need atleast 2 people with a breach and coordinate a shot at the same time.... instant death if both shots hit Takes two damage modded rail shots to kill a derpship, with two tanks coordinating at the same time they can kill a derpship easily.... instant death if both shots hit Is it possible to solo a derpship? Yes, two breach shots tactically shot will kill a derpship by ONE forger.... A lot harder than using two people forging... two damage modded rail shots can kill a derpship.... 1 tank with 2 strategic shots can kill a derpship... The most difficult one.... 2 clips of swarms can kill a derpship (6 volleys assuming a clip holds 3)... you cant just shot whenever... you need to wait until a derpship ends up in a vulnerable spot and then unload on it... Patience is the key. Same applies to tanks. People that seen me fly see me hovering over an enemy tank without shooting at it... I wait until I have it in a place where I know I'll have the advantage.... I wait until the tank moves a bit away from the redline... I wait until the tank places himself in a tight spot so when I start shooting he'll just start driving into walls and boxes... I am a bird of prey... and like most predators, I know that patience is the required to achieve victory. I dont believe tanks are op... I believe the rail turret is... I know how to kill a tank with its hardeners on... and believe me its not easy. But it isnt impossible. Same applies to derpships. But if you are not willing to take the time and own your skills and learn the weaknesses of a derpship... you will fail... I am not an AV... But I took the time to learn where the strengths in swarsm, rails, and forges are... And made sure I never put myself in such a spot where they have the advantage.... but sometimes they give me no choice. I don't even waste swarm ammo on DS. I'm not sure why I still try to kill tanks with them. I recently swapped out Lai Dai AV nades for Allotek Fluxes to see if it helped but it doesn't. I guess I'll just keep practicing with my militia rail tank. The thing about all this BS from vehicle people is that you still have infantry to contend with. There are only 16 players on one side. If it takes 10 minutes and 4 people to find that perfect window to kill something, why not just back out of the match? You are going to lose if that's what it takes. And in pubs? Most of your blueberries quit after they see a few vehicles and FRONTLINE AV isn't going to help much. They made vehicles cheaper. The AV needs buffed. That's the bottom line. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Horizen Kenpachi Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 110	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:29:00 - [42] - Quote So i also speced into dropships again to lose so much isk to this crap tank spam rail poooo iv stoped using them and i hate what tanks have done to the game ie tank corps twankers so i bought a 100 sicas now i sit in the redline destroying every ***** tank i see killed two maddys in 6 shots same clip rails are way over powered but im not gonna stop until iv killed them all its dirty but as a merc its the only thing ccp has forced me to do i had ten mill into tanks but i changed to infantry being an ex tanker i hate them now ccp dropped the ball on this one cant beat em em two damage mods plate and repper redline *** tank il continue dropships when there ciable untill then goodbye tanks fight fire with fire Hit me with your nerf bat.
Horizen Kenpachi Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 110	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:34:00 - [43] - Quote Ps commando with 2x nova knives for the win Hit me with your nerf bat.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 849	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:42:00 - [44] - Quote the redline is the problem not the railguns. i realise your going for shock value to draw attention but insisting the its the rails and not the redline is doing nothing but hurting the cause
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3735	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:43:00 - [45] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Removing the red like or adjusting it in some way - this would solve many problems in my honest opinion. Removing the redline would cause way more problems than it solves. Besides, the redline itself is only a slight problem. Almost nothing would be fixed because: Railguns can also be used as Shotguns. Enemy HAVs will still be eaten for breakfast. AV is pretty much a non-factor. They wouldn't be able to stop me. I can still aim high enough to vaporize dropships, even without the redline. Dropships have far too little cover. No redline will affect this. No Hardener can save you when my Railgun can alpha you into non-existence. Also, I find it highly ironic how everyone's so quick to call for AV nerfs when they deal 2k HP damage per shot, yet people scratch their heads and wonder if it's necessary to call for nerfs when Railgun turrets deal 2k HP of damage per shot. What Would Larry Do? He'd probably drink some Quafe... Goes To Refrigerator
killer carrot top Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 5	Posted - 2014.01.21 03:43:00 - [46] - Quote Yep went from 22 mil saved up to now 399k yeah ccp way to keep your players I'm laughing at how this has 5 years left on its contract and everyone knows it won't last that much longer
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 849	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:00:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Removing the red like or adjusting it in some way - this would solve many problems in my honest opinion. Removing the redline would cause way more problems than it solves. Besides, the redline itself is only a slight problem. Almost nothing would be fixed because: Railguns can also be used as Shotguns. Enemy HAVs will still be eaten for breakfast. AV is pretty much a non-factor. They wouldn't be able to stop me. I can still aim high enough to vaporize dropships, even without the redline. Dropships have far too little cover. No redline will affect this. No Hardener can save you when my Railgun can alpha you into non-existence. Also, I find it highly ironic how everyone's so quick to call for AV nerfs when they deal 2k HP damage per shot, yet people scratch their heads and wonder if it's necessary to call for nerfs when Railgun turrets deal 2k HP of damage per shot. yah no... nearly time i have been shot down by an alpha rail its been from 75+m deep into the redline. a railgun on my team cant counter due to them having elevation and cover making me the only target they can even hope to shoot at my dropship and my rails on the ground cant even get LOS on them. removing the redline makes sence really, if a team gets redlined they have proven that they cant hold ground having a redline doesnt change that as evidenced by the fact that in a redline game the winning team throws themselves deep intot he redline to scrape a few extra kills. right now its being abused in gamebreaking ways while not even providing protection to anyone who isnt 50+m deep who have no intention of leaving to taking ground. the MCC would still remain as a way to spawn in to prevent being kicked or farmed, but lets be honest if you get redlined you have either already lost the game or you would end up finding a way to get back into the game with our without the redline. its not currently not benifiting anyone except those who sit back 50+m in with no intention of leaving. if your redlined the enemy team is going to rush your redline and smoke you out anyways so its not even providing the protection it was designed to give. in short: the redline isnt fullfilling its original purpose the redline is only useful to those who never intend to leave it. remove it
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2256	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:06:00 - [48] - Quote Rof nerf to railgun and turrets as it needs to charge to produce enough kinetic energy, forge gun does it, why not rail. I'm neither here nor there one this really, I know there's a problem but I'm just chucking that out there. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2256	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:33:00 - [49] - Quote I would like to add that I am bored as fk having to blow up between 6-8 gunloggis and sicas on my tanker alt, I have to use my rail tank. These fking nubs just don't stop calling them in, so much butthurt that its depressing how fking pathetic they are. Spamming sht tanks repeatedly does not win, it just ruins it for tankers dedicated solely to tanks. I have proto large rocket turrets, profs, reload and ammo. ADV blasters with some sp in ammo and reload, adv railgun with some sp in reload and ammo. Well fk all that, its railguns or nothing. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
aqua network STAGNANT WATER INC. 20	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:36:00 - [50] - Quote We don't need DS domination. CCP why you make Red Line so big. Also CCP stop moving the red line up ever other map up date because it **** me off when the red line so close to a obj.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10205	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:37:00 - [51] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: the redline is the problem not the railguns. i realise your going for shock value to draw attention but insisting the its the rails and not the redline is doing nothing but hurting the cause That, and stacking damage mods. You should only be allowed to have one active at any time, or if you want to be even more extreme, only one fit at a time, like nitrous. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 12	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:46:00 - [52] - Quote hmmm another I want the game dust 514 to be the game I want and to hell with everyone else. you simply want to be able to fly around in a ADS with impunity and get a nice inflated KDR from that. sorry this is eve and well you adapt or you die. and you think rails are bad just wait for large beam cannons and large artillery. most of the forum posts I see are... I don't like "whatever the issue" fix it NOW!!. I WANT this buffed or I WANT this nerfed. well no, this game is open to what 45000 toons and not just you or just me. there is a tonne I want to see changed, but with sensible compromises and trade offs and not just a list of demands to make dust 514 the game I want. you have an issue with rail tanks fine make some suggestions. people had issue with the swarmers and now it has a pitiful 150 meter range (450 feet).. man a modern day stinger missile made from 1969-1982 can hit a aircraft at approx.. 5000 meters (15000 feet). and that single missile can bring down most planes and helicopters with a single hit. compromise and a open discussion of issues is needed.. not a list of I want this nows
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 68	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:53:00 - [53] - Quote Quick brain storm: Decrease all vehicle HP to very low amounts, like 1500-2000 for nearly all of them. Increase time hardeners are active, like 60-80 seconds. Decrease cool down time to 25-35 seconds. Increase resistance to 70-80 percent of damage. (Assume redline issue is not present) This would not change the rail mechanic but would change the time the rail (or blaster for infantry) could be used in a given area. The vehicle will have to seek an area that is not a hot zone and will eventually return, but in that time the vehicle will be extremely vulnerable. This mechanic works for DS as well. Between hardeners a vehicle will be very weak against AV , and ideally a vehicle could only have one, like a turbo. I think this scheme would boost current AV, prevent tanks from rolling around tread deep in red-berries, and give vehicle users a sense of skill as to: gauge time and plan runs. FAME
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 849	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:55:00 - [54] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: the redline is the problem not the railguns. i realise your going for shock value to draw attention but insisting the its the rails and not the redline is doing nothing but hurting the cause That, and stacking damage mods. You should only be allowed to have one active at any time, or if you want to be even more extreme, only one fit at a time, like nitrous. i was a hardcore railtanker back in the day, not the redline kind, the mountain climbing kind, elevation and cover were my weapons, and it was alll about positional advantage. the damage mod situation is worse now then it ever has been and it was pretty bad in chrome, but those who rely on the redline arnt that good, and if forced into a position where they can actually be vulerable they wont survive very long reguardless of how many damage mods they strap to their sicas thats why they dont leave the redline in the first place. and the good tankers that are left... dont really need the damage mods in the first place, my rail tank doesnt even have dmg mods on it (i still always have my railtank i wont ever spec out of it :P) remove the redline and the epidemic will solve itself now that you can get more then 3 seconds of fire on them before you have to make a mad dash back out of the redline. bad tankers sitting 75+m deep with 2-3 dmg mods always message me to brag when they shoot my dropship down... the truth is that it shouldnt take the redline to kill my paper airplane when they are using the most powerful AV platform in the game. i say remove their magical redline shield and force them into the meat grinder with everyone else and ill pop em like the poor infantry i shoot out of LAVs
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4501	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:27:00 - [55] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. I will definitely second this. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Eurydice Itzhak Providence Guard Templis CALSF 365	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:46:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. This just in, even though a full salvo (without Dmods) pops every single dropship i've encountered, its horrible at killing them because I can only keep them at bay for 250-300m and not 600m. Railgun is an awful gameplay decision. It has no counter play. its the best in CQC, the best at range, and its easy as heck to snipe infantry to boot. I knew as soon as I saw the first picture that showed railgun damage that no HAV will have anything but a railgun. And look at where we are.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:53:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Railguns are not bad in themselves, but, as Judge and many other stated before, how is sitting in the redline and 3 shotting vehicles at the opposite redline not game breaking? Infantry have cover to hide behind from snipers, dropships have what....Sky? Nobody, not even pilots mind if rail gun tanks are fighting within the map. Its that ridiculous 'I kill you but you cant kill me because magic redline.' thats game breaking Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:58:00 - [58] - Quote akira 1999 wrote: hmmm another I want the game dust 514 to be the game I want and to hell with everyone else. you simply want to be able to fly around in a ADS with impunity and get a nice inflated KDR from that. sorry this is eve and well you adapt or you die. and you think rails are bad just wait for large beam cannons and large artillery. most of the forum posts I see are... I don't like "whatever the issue" fix it NOW!!. I WANT this buffed or I WANT this nerfed. well no, this game is open to what 45000 toons and not just you or just me. there is a tonne I want to see changed, but with sensible compromises and trade offs and not just a list of demands to make dust 514 the game I want. you have an issue with rail tanks fine make some suggestions. people had issue with the swarmers and now it has a pitiful 150 meter range (450 feet).. man a modern day stinger missile made from 1969-1982 can hit a aircraft at approx.. 5000 meters (15000 feet). and that single missile can bring down most planes and helicopters with a single hit. compromise and a open discussion of issues is needed.. not a list of I want this nows Dopships have a effective 50 M Range. They have to get 100 M into your lock on range. And the missiles still travel the full 400M when fired. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2913	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:45:00 - [59] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. Are you kidding? A rail tank is currently the ONLY way to take down a dropship. And even then, all you have to do is fly close or high and you're completely invulnerable to them. By your "plight" I can only assume you mean "the only thing killing me right now". No.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 486	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:53:00 - [60] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. Understood. But we sometimes need to know they hear us. Just so we can shut up. Also the low angle is not true,, look at this... the red circle is where a rail can hit us from.. the blue where they are too close to hit us. IF we are at 100m up. At 50m... there is nowhere to hide...ever. I can totally understand certain frustrations. Just for clarification - where would the enemy tank be in that scenario? At the red line or bang in the middle of the blue dot? Also for arguments sake, say the railgun was changed in some fashion - what then would be the way to destroy dropships. I am not talking about the militia fit basic ones, I mean those of you like yourself and foxhound as well as others that are either really damaging with there ADS or tank the hell out of there ships? They'd have to be at the edge, cause you can't shoot out of that node with a tank. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming

Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 70	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:09:00 - [61] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. Are you kidding? A rail tank is currently the ONLY way to take down a dropship. And even then, all you have to do is fly close or high and you're completely invulnerable to them. By your "plight" I can only assume you mean "the only thing killing me right now". Do you fly? Cause I always find proto forge way more dangerous than rails. You can get away from a rail, sometimes. But a forge? You can only pray you find cover before the next shot, especially if he is skilled. I can peg ships with a forge as they death spiral upwards. FAME
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8165	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:15:00 - [62] - Quote After some time of attempting to practice normal dropships (and often getting shot down by rail tanks) I recently acquired enough SP to finally get my assault dropship. On the first call-in at the very start of a skirmish it got sniped from the other redline in two shots. I was a little pissed and I realised that I wouldn't be able to continue that match with an ADS. On my second try, I got into a Domination and I actually killed someone. That someone immediately went back to their redline and called in a rail tank and killed me in two shots. On the third try, I was just leaving the redline when I was OHKO'd by a Gunnlogi with more armour than shields. On the fourth try, I engaged a rail tank in the combat zone. He rolled back a little bit onto a hill and proceeded to explode me while he laughed off my pitiful damage. There will be no fifth try. I really can't be bothered to deal with this kind of bullshit. Anyone who thinks that rail tanks are fine because they're 'keeping assault dropships in check' is mad - they cost far more than even tanks and tanks have a much, much greater effect on every part of the field. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Jimbo Boilstaff THE MASSIVE DYNAMIC 84	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:31:00 - [63] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: After some time of attempting to practice normal dropships (and often getting shot down by rail tanks) I recently acquired enough SP to finally get my assault dropship. On the first call-in at the very start of a skirmish it got sniped from the other redline in two shots. I was a little pissed and I realised that I wouldn't be able to continue that match with an ADS. On my second try, I got into a Domination and I actually killed someone. That someone immediately went back to their redline and called in a rail tank and killed me in two shots. On the third try, I was just leaving the redline when I was OHKO'd by a Gunnlogi with more armour than shields. On the fourth try, I engaged a rail tank in the combat zone. He rolled back a little bit onto a hill and proceeded to explode me while he laughed off my pitiful damage. There will be no fifth try. I really can't be bothered to deal with this kind of bullshit. Anyone who thinks that rail tanks are fine because they're 'keeping assault dropships in check' is mad - they cost far more than even tanks and tanks have a much, much greater effect on every part of the field. dude id suggest having a super cheap fit (vipers are perfectly good enough) for the first dropship per game..... if it survives ok-ish then trade it in for an assault dropship later on,,,, if you bring the assault dropship out at the beginning of a battle you will be virtually 100% guaranteed to lose it ADS are only viable to fly in occasional matches (especially when you;re just starting out with them and the more sensitive control style/complications with aiming)..... make sure the conditions are right before you bring it out.... otherwise that ISK will flutter away before you know it they are by far the most awesome thing in the game when you get used to them and how to evade the difficulties (it's possible to fit out the ADS to withstand the majority of hits,,, just forget about putting the 2nd and 3rd turrets on it) im not so sure the need to be wise about as and when you bring a vehicle out proves there's a broken mechanic,,, also (i'm not saying you;ve done this but more to people in general)..... MOST PILOTS DONT KNOW FOR SURE WHAT KILLED THEM.... its usually co-ordinated tank strikes or railguns turrets,,,, but since you can jump out the ship before it blows you never see what killed you because it records as a suicide..... the vehicle balance here is only slightly off,,, seems everyones in agreement about the redline issue,,, and once thats sorted (as well as damage mods) then it'll be a lot 'fairer' for everyone Too much of this dropship complaining seems like pilots trying to make the ships a 1-man killing machine..... they're not designed for that,,, stop trying to turn them into that and enjoy what the ships are right now,,,, they are awesome fun and with the exception of a few pesky railguns they can be incredibly effective
bastille123 REYES DE DOMINACION 1	Posted - 2014.01.21 08:10:00 - [64] - Quote i never actually understood why ppl complain so much about dropships being ineffective.. i mean its is a transport /support vehicule and even if you get the assault variant of said vehicule it just wont be that much of a killer when its still desingned to be a trasnport /support ship (just look at the trailers how fast it got taken out , or how it was used ) i wonder at what point the comunity will consider dropships to be effective, when they are as fast as a fighter? (yes they are a bit slow and bulky beacuse they are infact MEDIUM sized vehicules) or when they are able to tank like a HEAVY attack vehicule? and if your going to nerf the railguns , then can i have infinite ammo back on them? i mean the purpose of the ammo was to make them stronger right? (i dont mind if they reduce the rate of fire to where it was before 1.7 but knowing CCP.....) just an opinion not sure what to put here lol
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 227	Posted - 2014.01.21 08:37:00 - [65] - Quote nope as a fan of flying dropships, I have no issue with rail tanks ability to swat DS out of the air. I do have a problem with redline rail tanks but nerfing rails is not the correct fix for that.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 08:40:00 - [66] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 45	Posted - 2014.01.21 08:44:00 - [67] - Quote Jimbo Boilstaff wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: After some time of attempting to practice normal dropships (and often getting shot down by rail tanks) I recently acquired enough SP to finally get my assault dropship. On the first call-in at the very start of a skirmish it got sniped from the other redline in two shots. I was a little pissed and I realised that I wouldn't be able to continue that match with an ADS. On my second try, I got into a Domination and I actually killed someone. That someone immediately went back to their redline and called in a rail tank and killed me in two shots. On the third try, I was just leaving the redline when I was OHKO'd by a Gunnlogi with more armour than shields. On the fourth try, I engaged a rail tank in the combat zone. He rolled back a little bit onto a hill and proceeded to explode me while he laughed off my pitiful damage. There will be no fifth try. I really can't be bothered to deal with this kind of bullshit. Anyone who thinks that rail tanks are fine because they're 'keeping assault dropships in check' is mad - they cost far more than even tanks and tanks have a much, much greater effect on every part of the field. dude id suggest having a super cheap fit (vipers are perfectly good enough) for the first dropship per game..... if it survives ok-ish then trade it in for an assault dropship later on,,,, if you bring the assault dropship out at the beginning of a battle you will be virtually 100% guaranteed to lose it ADS are only viable to fly in occasional matches (especially when you;re just starting out with them and the more sensitive control style/complications with aiming)..... make sure the conditions are right before you bring it out.... otherwise that ISK will flutter away before you know it they are by far the most awesome thing in the game when you get used to them and how to evade the difficulties (it's possible to fit out the ADS to withstand the majority of hits,,, just forget about putting the 2nd and 3rd turrets on it) im not so sure the need to be wise about as and when you bring a vehicle out proves there's a broken mechanic,,, also (i'm not saying you;ve done this but more to people in general)..... MOST PILOTS DONT KNOW FOR SURE WHAT KILLED THEM.... its usually co-ordinated tank strikes or railguns turrets,,,, but since you can jump out the ship before it blows you never see what killed you because it records as a suicide..... the vehicle balance here is only slightly off,,, seems everyones in agreement about the redline issue,,, and once thats sorted (as well as damage mods) then it'll be a lot 'fairer' for everyone Too much of this dropship complaining seems like pilots trying to make the ships a 1-man killing machine..... they're not designed for that,,, stop trying to turn them into that and enjoy what the ships are right now,,,, they are awesome fun and with the exception of a few pesky railguns they can be incredibly effective Umm, they are peoples main specialization on most characters so....no.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 45	Posted - 2014.01.21 08:48:00 - [68] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King Umm, hahaha, you survive 3-4 shots? Bullshit, a dsmage modded railgun 3 shots any ship and I've been 2 shotted by mlt railguns with highest shields or armor.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 45	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:01:00 - [69] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: nope as a fan of flying dropships, I have no issue with rail tanks ability to swat DS out of the air. I do have a problem with redline rail tanks but nerfing rails is not the correct fix for that. It is because the rof is a tad bit too high And Slightly less elavation, or maybe not, but railguns are broken
Azura Sakura Blood Eye Ravens 546	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:10:00 - [70] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: nope as a fan of flying dropships, I have no issue with rail tanks ability to swat DS out of the air. I do have a problem with redline rail tanks but nerfing rails is not the correct fix for that. I agree with you. Red line tanks are the only problem that drop ship pilots should have. If they have a enemy tank or AV infantry on the field. It is fair game because you can either harass them or run away. I think they should either get rid of red line for everyone or just allow DS to bypass the red line to give them more of a reason to be in matches - to destroy red line tankers and snipers if they are behind the red line.

Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:11:00 - [71] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King Umm, hahaha, you survive 3-4 shots? Bullshit, a dsmage modded railgun 3 shots any ship and I've been 2 shotted by mlt railguns with [highest shields or armor. You must be unaware of your Damage Sources. Also, you're not taking into account that Shield & Armor Vehicles act differently. Example: Shield as Main HP means if you were not Pre-Hardened you will die fast. Armor as Main HP means you have 1 hit of leeway before your Main HP takes a considerable hit, allowing more time to HTFU & GTFO. I personally watched my 4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots get shrugged off by a Shield ADS, & it was back @ Full HP by the time I readjusted & cooled down on Heat Build-up. Lastly.....as per your statement in BOLD, you are doing it wrong..... HP Stacking is trash compared to Hardening. L2P KthxBAI
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 45	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:15:00 - [72] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: NK Scout wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King Umm, hahaha, you survive 3-4 shots? Bullshit, a dsmage modded railgun 3 shots any ship and I've been 2 shotted by mlt railguns with [highest shields or armor. You must be unaware of your Damage Sources. Also, you're not taking into account that Shield & Armor Vehicles act differently. Example: Shield as Main HP means if you were not Pre-Hardened you will die fast. Armor as Main HP means you have 1 hit of leeway before your Main HP takes a considerable hit, allowing more time to HTFU & GTFO. I personally watched my 4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots get shrugged off by a Shield ADS, & it was back @ Full HP by the time I readjusted & cooled down on Heat Build-up. Lastly.....as per your statement in BOLD, you are doing it wrong..... HP Stacking is trash compared to Hardening. L2P KthxBAI 2555 shield Adv heavy shield extender Complex shield hardenee Complex booster 2 or 3 shotted and takes slightly less time to kill than a hardened sica, and if you hit a python without a hardener you will 2 shot it. I know what im doing railkiddie.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 578	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:35:00 - [73] - Quote Hey there - I feel your pain... I switched over to tanks after 1.7 and had great fun two-shotting dropships from the other side of the map. However, I feel a comprehensive solution will come from map design, rather than changing the current game mechanics.
killer carrot top Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 5	Posted - 2014.01.21 10:58:00 - [74] - Quote I see it as this either ccp gets into gear or this game will not last the rest of its contract
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 40	Posted - 2014.01.21 11:46:00 - [75] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: VonSpliff wrote: Yeah let's nerf the only thing that can kill Assault Dropships! Cause no one likes losing the most OP weapon on the battle field. My opinion is the Rail tank is the only thing keeping vehicle drivers honest. Broken as they may be. Another opinion would be, that this game has no need for tanks and Dropship that don't need gunners to kill. But I'm just a merc trying to make it in this new Eden. The problem with the rail tank is it's range and it's ability to sit with virtual impunity behind the redline while denying much of the playable map to dropship and other vehicles. A reduction to range is needed to prevent redline abuse while still allowing tanks to fulfill the role of high damage, long range AV. No one want or should want to make rails worthless, the aim should be to make them fair. I must laugh that you assume rails are the only thing checking dropship. Forges are still very viable (due to their mobility and ability to hide). Even swarms give me trouble when they knock me around in tight quarters or near structures and throw off my aim and flight paths. I think you missed the part where I said I don't want tanks and assault DS in dust. And yeah anything shooting out of the redline is ******** and cowardly. "Long live the Empress, unless you have some isk"
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 228	Posted - 2014.01.21 11:48:00 - [76] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: hgghyujh wrote: nope as a fan of flying dropships, I have no issue with rail tanks ability to swat DS out of the air. I do have a problem with redline rail tanks but nerfing rails is not the correct fix for that. I agree with you. Red line tanks are the only problem that drop ship pilots should have. If they have a enemy tank or AV infantry on the field. It is fair game because you can either harass them or run away. I think they should either get rid of red line for everyone or just allow DS to bypass the red line to give them more of a reason to be in matches - to destroy red line tankers and snipers if they are behind the red line. I will back the **** out of that. also rails shooting red line to redline thats some BS, to be fair its crap map design.
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 40	Posted - 2014.01.21 11:53:00 - [77] - Quote And I love hearing you try-hards complaining about getting 2-3 shot by a rail tank. While the rest of have to dodge and maneuver around multiple weapons that can 1-3 shot 700+ Hps. You shouldn't even be able to spec tanks & ADS with out specing into a suit and weapon first. "Long live the Empress, unless you have some isk"
rpastry Carbon 7 CRONOS. 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 11:53:00 - [78] - Quote there was no bitching about railguns before swarms and forges were nerfed. people just switch to what is most effective. and NO, expecting multiple infantry to take time out from fighting a whole team of enemy infantry and coordinate perfectly in expensive gear to take down your lone wolfing spawn camping kill farming DS is not an answer. One AV should be able to force off a DS, after all they're sacrificing 90% of their effectiveness as an infantry unit and making themselves incredibly vulnerable to enemy infantry as well as becoming #1 kill priority to the vehicle(s) they are trying to destroy. PS tanks aint god mode, at long range use cover - you may need to use the TEAMWORK that you so insist AV must use - IE have tank spotter looking at the map. At short to mid range a DS can fly faster and higher than a railgun can track. .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-a+¬a¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça++ a¦ê+ä-£a¦êa++a+¬a¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 142	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:03:00 - [79] - Quote Taken from here Blaze Ashra wrote: Place a small barrier 50 meters below the height ceiling that only prevents rails to pass through. This way if a rail tanker is hiding in the redline we can put on our hardeners and afterburner to to the height ceiling wait for our stuff to cool down, find drop location and turn on hardeners and dive, then after the pick up/ drop turn on after burners until needed again. No nerfs. No messing with the redline. No need for counter measures. Balances by giving a safe zone to counter someone hiding in a safe zone. Pretty much recycles the MCC barrier code. Should stop a lot of QQ. The basic idea is that since we are the only ting in the game with no cover, we don't have anywhere near the same range, and it's surpemely difficult to transport due to how long we are vulnerable, we should have a safe zone at the very top of the map. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 435	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:21:00 - [80] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Less effective range, Lower damage. Alpha damage is far too high, not to mention the stacking of multiple damage mods. This will lead to some more interesting tank vs tank battles, as in longer engagements. Right now, it's nothing to ALPHA another tank with a railgun. In fact, it's my go to weapon when dealing with tanks at any distance. I don't even bother with blasters anymore, and only every now and again use my missiles(though they are hardly as effective as my railgun). Do not even consider falloff (could be neat though) and blasters should be the easiest to fit! As it stands now, I basically one shot shield ADS and 2 shot the armor ADS. Using a single damage mod and a proto rail turret. Even adding an extra slot could be all ya need, to the ADS. Even changing their hit profile, making them harder to hit, might be a good idea. I will admit, a moving dropship if moving fast enough is nearly impossible to hit. You have to lead the bastards by several yards it seems. Problem is though, they have to stop to shoot, so they are just sitting ducks up there. But given the current state of tanks ( they are everywhere!) an ADS spends most of his time dodging and hiding, rather than doing anything other than droppin someone off up high. Nuff Said

Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 15:21:00 - [81] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: NK Scout wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King Umm, hahaha, you survive 3-4 shots? Bullshit, a dsmage modded railgun 3 shots any ship and I've been 2 shotted by mlt railguns with [highest shields or armor. You must be unaware of your Damage Sources. Also, you're not taking into account that Shield & Armor Vehicles act differently. Example: Shield as Main HP means if you were not Pre-Hardened you will die fast. Armor as Main HP means you have 1 hit of leeway before your Main HP takes a considerable hit, allowing more time to HTFU & GTFO. I personally watched my 4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots get shrugged off by a Shield ADS, & it was back @ Full HP by the time I readjusted & cooled down on Heat Build-up. Lastly.....as per your statement in BOLD, you are doing it wrong..... HP Stacking is trash compared to Hardening. L2P KthxBAI 2555 shield Adv heavy shield extender Complex shield hardenee Complex booster 2 or 3 shotted and takes slightly less time to kill than a hardened sica, and if you hit a python without a hardener you will 2 shot it. I know what im doing railkiddie. I'm sorry that you fly like a molasses soaked derpy & fit like a Pre-K Pubtard. The "Get Gud" moniker still applies. Also noted your BOLD Statement as PROOF that ADSers want to be Flying Tanks w/ Jet Speed....... LOL @ "Railkiddie :P
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 15:30:00 - [82] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Taken from here Blaze Ashra wrote: Place a small barrier 50 meters below the height ceiling that only prevents rails to pass through. This way if a rail tanker is hiding in the redline we can put on our hardeners and afterburner to to the height ceiling wait for our stuff to cool down, find drop location and turn on hardeners and dive, then after the pick up/ drop turn on after burners until needed again. No nerfs. No messing with the redline. No need for counter measures. Balances by giving a safe zone to counter someone hiding in a safe zone. Pretty much recycles the MCC barrier code. Should stop a lot of QQ. The basic idea is that since we are the only ting in the game with no cover, we don't have anywhere near the same range, and it's surpemely difficult to transport due to how long we are vulnerable, we should have a safe zone at the very top of the map. You already do..... Oh.....I get it now, you wanna Hover with a MCRU & never take Damage. LOL.....just....lol. & "No Cover"??? Get F**KING Gud Scrub.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12424	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:46:00 - [83] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Should a tank be able to attack a dropship hovering over it? I think that's a great check to solo tanks and forces tanks to use teamwork. Firing volley after volley of missiles or rails at a tank can take a while even of stock militia fits, not even to mention if there are repairs or hardeners fitted as well. This leaves the dropship vulnerable to AV or other tanks, meaning if there's something, even a militia swarm, firing at the dropship, it can effectively protect the tank or at least make the dropship's attempt more difficult. Allowing tanks to be self-sufficiently defensive takes away from the teamwork aspect of the game. I am just saying both missiles and blasters can kill a drop ship but their attack envelopes (area of potential attack) are excessively small in comparison to the rail gun turret which if you where to measure volumes of either you would find out the railgun's far more massive which is why they're too good at it. 1 rail tank can literally keep a map dropship free, I know, I've done it, shot 6 down in one match because my attack envelope prevents them from getting the drop on me. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Lv2spd2 Slow And Old 176	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:49:00 - [84] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. Nah. I've suffered through too many games lately with 4 or more assault dropships on one team swarming everything on the other team into the ground. It's even less fun than suffering though another 6 on 0 tank spamming. There was a time when I would have sympathized with you, but not any more.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 70	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:06:00 - [85] - Quote I am a good pilot. We don't need an aerial safe zone, as at peak height nothing can shoot you anyways, even a forge doesn't have the range to hit you at max height. Piloting should stay a skill vehicle. You have to think about your location before calling in a ship, just watch Judge's YouTube. You can't just stay still, you need to move and stay elevated until you have a run planned. You also need to pick your battles and coordinate with ground teams. When I fly if my team is surrounded by tanks a simple harassment may be enough to make them scatter. Even though a good pilot can take out a tank, a better tank driver will be able to evade a single DS killing blow. I do agree that right now piloting is not good. Ships cost way more than most pilots can make in a match and the base ships are too slow to react to current tanks and certain AV weapons. But they are not helpless, and dangerous in numbers. ( also attention CCP: aerial crash damage is absurd, RDV murder taxis and little love taps friendly or foe need serious readjustment ) FAME
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1673	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:09:00 - [86] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. Or you could squad with a tanker, and stop crying to have tanks nerfed. I respected you before, but not anymore. Now you sound like the people that want tanks needed so bad that people stop using them. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3761	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:13:00 - [87] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Or you could squad with a tanker, and stop crying to have tanks nerfed. I respected you before, but not anymore. Now you sound like the people that want tanks needed so bad that people stop using them. Why exactly should everyone be forced to squad up with a tanker again? Nobody wants tanks to be nerfed to the point where nobody wants to use them. I don't even want that. But you cannot be the best counter to yourself. That's broken. Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2261	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:42:00 - [88] - Quote Nerf rail = DS heaven With rail its DS hell except for the good pilots, they will use all manner of skills to avoid being shot down If and when i play DUST im grouped with tankers generally, to fly a DS i generally need a tank on the ground to cover me from pesky rail tanks if any arrive, not all rails can whack a DS unless its hovering and being still since shell travel time and dip factors into it but if one is about and aiming for me i gotta find out where it is and how can i avoid it and on some maps its not bad hide behind a big tower or fly low and fast and make sure you got stuff on If a DS pilot is switched on they can survive until the threat is over without the need to recall but sometimes you do have to recall if they are a persistant pain in the ass and your tank cant get rid Intelligence is OP
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1674	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:06:00 - [89] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Or you could squad with a tanker, and stop crying to have tanks nerfed. I respected you before, but not anymore. Now you sound like the people that want tanks needed so bad that people stop using them. Why exactly should everyone be forced to squad up with a tanker again? Nobody wants tanks to be nerfed to the point where nobody wants to use them. I don't even want that. But you cannot be the best counter to yourself. That's broken. Of course you all want tanks nerfed. What's the point of these threads if they're not to have tanks nerfed? And again, you have/had access to tanks, yet still had to use AV to destroy other vehicles, because you were so bad in your own tank. You should see it from our side before going on an antitank crusade. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 807	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:10:00 - [90] - Quote Ive seen it from your side, and you're wrong. Tanks too much, need toned back little bit. glad you got buffed, but too much .. black snake too big,

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1328	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:18:00 - [91] - Quote Speaker you say I want tanks nerfed. but all I requested was that the Devs let us know if the consider them an issue or not. btw if you reed the sticky on recent topics the Devs are looking into militia tank already. What I want is fair balance. currently the greater number in the community agree that rail tanks need a balance pass. this does not mean a nerf. in fact what would be a nerd in your eyes? for example if they reduced range but increased you elevation? Is that a nerf? Or if they doubled your range? Is that a nerf? A change may make your tank different in some way but not less effective at completing is role, just reduce it from being too effective. A lot of people have said they feel rail tanks have an unfair advantage over other vehicles and infantry too. Many find that the game is made less enjoyable by them. it's not about hitting rid of threats but making fighting them fun . So here is the simple question.... Do you think rail tanks do not need any changes? If they do not need a change then explain why so we can make sure we are not asking for changes that ruin the game for rail tankers either. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Lanius Pulvis Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 129	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:37:00 - [92] - Quote I'd be rather curious to know if they're looking at this. It appears that range is the major issue. Not new, just new to you.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3765	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:56:00 - [93] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Of course you all want tanks nerfed. What's the point of these threads if they're not to have tanks nerfed? And again, you have/had access to tanks, yet still had to use AV to destroy other vehicles, because you were so bad in your own tank. You should see it from our side before going on an antitank crusade. What we want here is balance. What we don't want however, is to make vehicles obselete to the point where nobody would want to use them. Why do you assume that I specced AV simply because I couldn't destroy enemy tanks with my own HAV? I specced into AV for many reasons, but that's not one of them. I'm not on an Anti-Tank crusade. Do people even read my posts? Or do they automatically assume that it's a blob of nerf tanks? Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12445	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:15:00 - [94] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. This just in, even though a full salvo (without Dmods) pops every single dropship i've encountered, its horrible at killing them because I can only keep them at bay for 250-300m and not 600m. Railgun is an awful gameplay decision. It has no counter play. its the best in CQC, the best at range, and its easy as heck to snipe infantry to boot. I knew as soon as I saw the first picture that showed railgun damage that no HAV will have anything but a railgun. And look at where we are. Missile turrets don't move fast enough and coupled with travel time equate to an reliable engagement envelope in shape of a flattened donut or ufo shape where Due to bad damage compression, range, and angle blasters effective envelope is very similar to the missile with exception someone trimmed around the outer edge of the donut at its peak point. Rail Tank is a massive hemisphere of engagement and by visual estimates its envelope is nearly 10x more massive. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 47	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:26:00 - [95] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: NK Scout wrote: NK Scout wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Either bring railgun damage lower OR introduce fall off (but this would change railguns to hit scan so that's a scary thing to even to consider) AND THEN Increase the fitting difficulty of the railgun currently its the easiest turret to install. If rails cannot be touched then buff dropship HP and increase swarm damage and speed. Stop using Vocabulary to feign relevance by attempting to mask your ignorance...... The bulk of what you stated is utter rubbish, & the BOLD statement most of all....... FFS you have no place in Vehicle Balancing Discussio, GTFO. As for everyone else......NOBODY, not FKING 1 of you, has taken into account that there is no ADS Spam. Get 3 or more "Birds" in the air & then FKING talk. An Experienced Pilot in a PROPERLY fit Dropship can survive 3-4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots from a SINGLE Source. You are being Focus Fired.....get over it. As for the 3x Damage Modded Gunnlogi with a Proto Rail.....1-2 Rail Shots & they go POOF. Without Resistances they are basically a "Genji Sword", High Alpha w/ Low Constitution. The Redline is often the ONLY area of the Map, with the exception of the opposite East/West side (Assuming the Dropship is not flying Mid-Field), that a Rail can even get a bead on a Dropship. The Rail's Range is not Infinite...... But w/e the hell CCP decides to Break.......errrr....."Tweak" matters not much to me. I Adapt & Overcome, this is a proven FACT. TL;DR: Get Gud, & IWS = Duncecap King Umm, hahaha, you survive 3-4 shots? Bullshit, a dsmage modded railgun 3 shots any ship and I've been 2 shotted by mlt railguns with [highest shields or armor. You must be unaware of your Damage Sources. Also, you're not taking into account that Shield & Armor Vehicles act differently. Example: Shield as Main HP means if you were not Pre-Hardened you will die fast. Armor as Main HP means you have 1 hit of leeway before your Main HP takes a considerable hit, allowing more time to HTFU & GTFO. I personally watched my 4 2x Damage Modded ADV Rail Shots get shrugged off by a Shield ADS, & it was back @ Full HP by the time I readjusted & cooled down on Heat Build-up. Lastly.....as per your statement in BOLD, you are doing it wrong..... HP Stacking is trash compared to Hardening. L2P KthxBAI 2555 shield Adv heavy shield extender Complex shield hardenee Complex booster 2 or 3 shotted and takes slightly less time to kill than a hardened sica, and if you hit a python without a hardener you will 2 shot it. I know what im doing railkiddie. I'm sorry that you fly like a molasses soaked derpy & fit like a Pre-K Pubtard. The "Get Gud" moniker still applies. Also noted your BOLD Statement as PROOF that ADSers want to be Flying Tanks w/ Jet Speed....... LOL @ "Railkiddie :P[/quote] Lol rail kiddie how cute Judge also uses that And that shield is required so I can survive you noobs and fyi=I pwn the ** out of sica with my mlt railgun, so damm easy, plus a air target will get hit before its hardeners are up so that hp is needed Next time learn your ** beforr posting. Pps Getting 2 or 3 shotted is beyond stupid
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 10	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:28:00 - [96] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While Rail tanks are a problem to both DS and HAVs the problem is there isn't any really good ground to air options if removed. Swarm Launchers I see try an fail and I have had ADS shrug off an entire forge gun clip and still be ballsy enough to fly low enough to va grenade him to death. Both Blasters and missiles are not that efficient in dropship killing due to the small envelopes and horrible damage compression. Railguns are bad because they excel in damage compression. There is no high angle option between the railgun and blaster and there should be. Flak cannons confirmed. u know ''''''''''give the heavy suit a back mounted dual flak cannon . wouldnt take much . act like the breach you cant move
Denchlad 7 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 61	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:51:00 - [97] - Quote Neither dropships or railguns need major changes. But both need minor changes. I would suggest: 20% nerf to current railgun damage. 25% buff to overall dropship HP across both STD and ADS. No change to tank HP. This should make dropships last 4-5 shots, enough time for an experienced pilot to escape, but still not long enough for them to be unkillable. However it is not long enough for an amateur to escape. It also makes tanks more resilient to railguns, making tank v tank last longer. When it comes to the power of dropships, since 1.7 dropped, I have yet to be killed by one while on the ground (aside from myself of course). Maybe thats because as a pilot I know how to evade, but if you understand how to strafe, only the very best pilots will get you. The redline could do with tweaks too, but nothing extreme. If you can't accept change, you will fail in this world.
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 264	Posted - 2014.01.22 01:10:00 - [98] - Quote rpastry wrote: there was no bitching about railguns before swarms and forges were nerfed. people just switch to what is most effective. and NO, expecting multiple infantry to take time out from fighting a whole team of enemy infantry and coordinate perfectly in expensive gear to take down your lone wolfing spawn camping kill farming DS is not an answer. One AV should be able to force off a DS, after all they're sacrificing 90% of their effectiveness as an infantry unit and making themselves incredibly vulnerable to enemy infantry as well as becoming #1 kill priority to the vehicle(s) they are trying to destroy. PS tanks aint god mode, at long range use cover - you may need to use the TEAMWORK that you so insist AV must use - IE have tank spotter looking at the map. At short to mid range a DS can fly faster and higher than a railgun can track. Thats because the rendering sucked and rails were forced to move up and out of the redline.... now that the rendering has improved they are not required to leave the redline any more. Luck is just one of my skills
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 264	Posted - 2014.01.22 01:13:00 - [99] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Or you could squad with a tanker, and stop crying to have tanks nerfed. I respected you before, but not anymore. Now you sound like the people that want tanks needed so bad that people stop using them. Why exactly should everyone be forced to squad up with a tanker again? Nobody wants tanks to be nerfed to the point where nobody wants to use them. I don't even want that. But you cannot be the best counter to yourself. That's broken. Of course you all want tanks nerfed. What's the point of these threads if they're not to have tanks nerfed? And again, you have/had access to tanks, yet still had to use AV to destroy other vehicles, because you were so bad in your own tank. You should see it from our side before going on an antitank crusade. I dont believe tanks need to be changed.its clear the issue is redline. There is no risk. There are a lot of matches where im at the edge of the redline just staring at 3 rail tanks BEHIND the MCC just firing away. I can not do anything. There is no risk. Nothing can hurt them. But yet they can hurt anything. Explain to me how that is balanced? Where is the risk vs reward? Luck is just one of my skills
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 264	Posted - 2014.01.22 01:22:00 - [100] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: Neither dropships or railguns need major changes. But both need minor changes. I would suggest: 20% nerf to current railgun damage. 25% buff to overall dropship HP across both STD and ADS. No change to tank HP. This should make dropships last 4-5 shots, enough time for an experienced pilot to escape, but still not long enough for them to be unkillable. However it is not long enough for an amateur to escape. It also makes tanks more resilient to railguns, making tank v tank last longer. When it comes to the power of dropships, since 1.7 dropped, I have yet to be killed by one while on the ground (aside from myself of course). Maybe thats because as a pilot I know how to evade, but if you understand how to strafe, only the very best pilots will get you. The redline could do with tweaks too, but nothing extreme. No. lol. Please, this is 1.4 all over again.... or was it 1.5. Believe me, this is not the answer. We are arguing about redline... tanks are fine.... DS are fine too... Luck is just one of my skills

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2544	Posted - 2014.01.22 02:33:00 - [101] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Or you could squad with a tanker, and stop crying to have tanks nerfed. I respected you before, but not anymore. Now you sound like the people that want tanks needed so bad that people stop using them. Why exactly should everyone be forced to squad up with a tanker again? Nobody wants tanks to be nerfed to the point where nobody wants to use them. I don't even want that. But you cannot be the best counter to yourself. That's broken. Of course you all want tanks nerfed. What's the point of these threads if they're not to have tanks nerfed? And again, you have/had access to tanks, yet still had to use AV to destroy other vehicles, because you were so bad in your own tank. You should see it from our side before going on an antitank crusade. I dont believe tanks need to be changed.its clear the issue is redline. There is no risk. There are a lot of matches where im at the edge of the redline just staring at 3 rail tanks BEHIND the MCC just firing away. I can not do anything. There is no risk. Nothing can hurt them. But yet they can hurt anything. Explain to me how that is balanced? Where is the risk vs reward? Yeah this is BS ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
ugg reset Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 445	Posted - 2014.01.22 02:44:00 - [102] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m Thr33 is the magic number.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 652	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:04:00 - [103] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m Maybe you can't, scrub. Still, the only way to utilize 600m is from the redline in most if not all maps. Reducing the range will force tanks out of the redline if they wish to be effective in an even battle, while still being effective during a pub-stomping. I'm working on a visual showing the ridiculous range of current rails compared to what I think they should be at. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 29 Gêå2 1/20
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1083	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:16:00 - [104] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. The RoF and stacked damage mods is the problem. The rail was effective at killing dropships before but yet had to spool up and recharge. If you held down fire and shot repeatedly each shot would hit for less. The way it is now not only makes it far easier to hit dropships but also makes the rail effective at CQC. A rail should not outclass the missile launcher at CQC AV. Rail tankers shouldn't feel comfortable moving into a CQC situation. If it's long range it needs to be slower RoF. The rail was fine as it was. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2231	Posted - 2014.01.22 04:21:00 - [105] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m I OHKO'd a Python at 489m recently. Used a rail, don't remember popping anything but one ADS before I swapped to blasters. The thing with ADS is that in order to actually hit something, they need to make themselves relatively easy to hit. Shield ADS are often OHKOs without a hardener. Armor ADS are usually 2HKO. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4517	Posted - 2014.01.22 17:43:00 - [106] - Quote Hey, this thread still needs a blue tag. Come on Saberwing, if you can make a reply to a random post I made in a thread someone tossed up about being disgruntled over no confirmation of Fighters, you, LogiBro, or Frame could at least hit this thread up too. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1340	Posted - 2014.01.25 00:50:00 - [107] - Quote I am disappoint CCP. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 72	Posted - 2014.01.25 00:51:00 - [108] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I am disappoint CCP. rail is still broken rail still does more damage to shields 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 505	Posted - 2014.01.25 01:45:00 - [109] - Quote Why not just put the redline behind a hill line, or some sort of obstacle that you must drive over in order to see the battle proper? The problem isn't the redline. The problem is how much of the map is visible from the redline. Therefore, if the redline is behind a row of small hills, rail tanks must venture to at minimum on top of the hills to find something to shoot. Which means they, in turn, can be shot.
Thorn Badblood Dust2Dust. Top Men. 128	Posted - 2014.01.25 01:46:00 - [110] - Quote Personally I don't like the fact that the rail tank does so much damage at close range. D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization

Shiruba Ryou 160	Posted - 2014.01.25 02:45:00 - [111] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. I'll acknowledge bro....... That nothing else really packs the required punch to dispatch you permanently in the short amount of time one has before you pick up speed and fly away. And since we don't have a reward for simply chasing your ass away, your permanent demise is the only result any of us here really care about. That being the case, people will do what has the best chance of killing you. You have my condolences but no one's gonna stop. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Gloomy Cobra POISION ROSES Public Disorder. 64	Posted - 2014.01.25 02:52:00 - [112] - Quote NERF NERF NERF :P Honestly i really hate that word in this game, it just makes the whole game dull... To be honest rails are not op (if they are in the right hands, hell yeah they are). The main issue with rails is that they can shoot from really long range and at a fast rate of fire AND there is ~100% of the time no counter to them. Something that is really strong should have really slow shooting rate, and something that is really weak should have more chances to keep on attacking. Now im not saying do not nerf them, just saying nerf the milita ones or take them out from the milita store like the large missile have been and add the large missiles back (if you want). Dropships are at a really good spot right now, and since we have small maps, WHY THE F**K did you think it was a good idea to give them hella long range, DAM! And bing either damage back to swarms or their range cuz only a few players use them now and the rest just rail tank...Btw ccp where are the flares?READ descrip for swarms!!! The so called negative feedback is often love in disguise. Take full advantage!
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 688	Posted - 2014.01.25 03:09:00 - [113] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Rail tanks have made dropships almost unusable and ruined strategic play for real tankers and LAV specialists. While we understand that fixing things takes time, and that resources are limited there are some issues that are a problem and some that are so bad that the game is broken. Rail tanks fall into the latter. They ruin every single match. So this is a simple request. Here it is below : CCP please acknowledge that rails need work. Tell us in this thread that you have heard our complaints. No need to say what you will do or when you will do it, Just let us know you hear our voices. I'll acknowledge bro....... That nothing else really packs the required punch to dispatch you permanently in the short amount of time one has before you pick up speed and fly away. And since we don't have a reward for simply chasing your ass away, your permanent demise is the only result any of us here really care about. That being the case, people will do what has the best chance of killing you. You have my condolences but no one's gonna stop. NO ONE FREAKING CARES THAT RAILS CAN TAKE OUT DROPSHIPS. Get it through your heads people, the problem is that rails have rediculous range, capable of denying whole maps to dropships and other vehicles from the redline. That combined with high damage, high RoF for its class, and high accuracy make redline rail snipers OP, map-denying, untouchable behemoths that are ruining the game for vehicles, dropships especially. All I'm asking for (not speaking for everyone) is an effective range nerf to 350m, with a sharp dropoff range out to 450m max. This is more than enough range to keep at a distance (and yes, you can still hit dropships engaging your team at this distance) and prevents redline abuse. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 29 Gêå2 1/20
Shiruba Ryou 161	Posted - 2014.01.25 03:31:00 - [114] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: [quote=Shiruba Ryou][quote=Judge Rhadamanthus] NO ONE FREAKING CARES THAT RAILS CAN TAKE OUT DROPSHIPS. Get it through your heads people, the problem is that rails have rediculous range, capable of denying whole maps to dropships and other vehicles from the redline. That combined with high damage, high RoF for its class, and high accuracy make redline rail snipers OP, map-denying, untouchable behemoths that are ruining the game for vehicles, dropships especially. All I'm asking for (not speaking for everyone) is an effective range nerf to 350m, with a sharp dropoff range out to 450m max. This is more than enough range to keep at a distance (and yes, you can still hit dropships engaging your team at this distance) and prevents redline abuse. You may not care but the OP worded it like he did. Instead of getting your panties in a bunch why not ask for some clarification? I responded to what I saw, as I'm about to do with you. I agree that what your saying is a valid point. I'm not a tanker so don't expect a decent rebuttal for that. Though redline abuse is shared by snipers as well. Seems that your actual issue is the redline issue and not particularly rail tanks. For example, the only reason why a snipes range is an issue is because they can back up far into the redline for safety. Unless I'm missreading something thats also why rail tanks are an issue. And not the tank itself. You should probably redirect yourself to the appropriate thread. And here's a 1 Card Minor Arcana reading for you as a parting gift: 5 of Wands upright. Fitting if I might say. Branches from a common source with a high chance of conflict and disagreement. Those that draw this card would benefit from reevaluating their personal stance and try a different process or strategy. Remembering that your roots don't dictate your path, yet ultimately hold the truth in your endeavors. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Lorhak Gannarsein 1330	Posted - 2014.01.25 04:01:00 - [115] - Quote Often the only way it's possible to get an angle on a dropship (including its escape route) is to head back to the redline; for some reason the maps are designed with the largest hills in the safest locations. The hills in Like Harvest and Manus Peak are good examples of what I mean; the maps are narrow enough that you start to have difficulties if you've not maximised your firing angle. And because of all this, OHKO is important, because otherwise I might not get a second shot. Borne Velvalor wrote: ugg reset wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m I OHKO'd a Python at 489m recently. Used a rail, don't remember popping anything but one ADS before I swapped to blasters. The thing with ADS is that in order to actually hit something, they need to make themselves relatively easy to hit. Shield ADS are often OHKOs without a hardener. Armor ADS are usually 2HKO. But at 500m it has to be OHKO or you're wasting your time. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 78	Posted - 2014.01.25 04:11:00 - [116] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Often the only way it's possible to get an angle on a dropship (including its escape route) is to head back to the redline; for some reason the maps are designed with the largest hills in the safest locations. The hills in Like Harvest and Manus Peak are good examples of what I mean; the maps are narrow enough that you start to have difficulties if you've not maximised your firing angle. And because of all this, OHKO is important, because otherwise I might not get a second shot. Borne Velvalor wrote: ugg reset wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m I OHKO'd a Python at 489m recently. Used a rail, don't remember popping anything but one ADS before I swapped to blasters. The thing with ADS is that in order to actually hit something, they need to make themselves relatively easy to hit. Shield ADS are often OHKOs without a hardener. Armor ADS are usually 2HKO. But at 500m it has to be OHKO or you're wasting your time. OHKO is fine, but at 400k isk a ship it gets to be a little obnoxious. Would you like your tanks to be OHKO? FAME
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 146	Posted - 2014.01.25 06:35:00 - [117] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Blaze Ashra wrote: Taken from here Blaze Ashra wrote: Place a small barrier 50 meters below the height ceiling that only prevents rails to pass through. This way if a rail tanker is hiding in the redline we can put on our hardeners and afterburner to to the height ceiling wait for our stuff to cool down, find drop location and turn on hardeners and dive, then after the pick up/ drop turn on after burners until needed again. No nerfs. No messing with the redline. No need for counter measures. Balances by giving a safe zone to counter someone hiding in a safe zone. Pretty much recycles the MCC barrier code. Should stop a lot of QQ. The basic idea is that since we are the only ting in the game with no cover, we don't have anywhere near the same range, and it's surpemely difficult to transport due to how long we are vulnerable, we should have a safe zone at the very top of the map. You already do..... Oh.....I get it now, you wanna Hover with a MCRU & never take Damage. LOL.....just....lol. & "No Cover"??? Get FKING Gud Scrub. Lol. You want me to get good? No problem, I will be getting better as time goes on. What's your issue with that idea? We cant shoot anyone from the height ceiling which is less than what you can do cowering in the redline. MCRU's don't give any rewards and I'm pretty sure this would make it so we can drop off/pick up our infantry as transports rather than free kills. If you think there's lots of cover in the sky then perhaps you can point out where, all we really have are towers buildings and the MCC. And if you're incapable of going up a small hill to angle at the sky you're a worse rail tanker then 1/2 the militia scrub berries. The AV vs tank thing you said you had more skill points invested so you should be OP. Well we have more invested than you so we should be at least viable. You said you shouldn't lose your tank to something that cost less sp to get than your tank well it's not even 1/8 the sp to get into a standard tank as it is to get into a dropship. Your rail/blaster large turrest cost less sp than my small missile. Your faster than my dropship unless I'm using my after burners and even then if you just use nitro you're back there. You have nearly 4 times the hp, more modules, more killing potential, fitting options and cover yet you're afraid to grow a pair and leave your crutch ass redline. CCP bent over backwards to give you tankers every thing you asked for and you're upset about an idea that does nothing but lowers the time you can have your free kills? ***** lame. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 76	Posted - 2014.01.25 07:10:00 - [118] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Blaze Ashra wrote: Taken from here Blaze Ashra wrote: Place a small barrier 50 meters below the height ceiling that only prevents rails to pass through. This way if a rail tanker is hiding in the redline we can put on our hardeners and afterburner to to the height ceiling wait for our stuff to cool down, find drop location and turn on hardeners and dive, then after the pick up/ drop turn on after burners until needed again. No nerfs. No messing with the redline. No need for counter measures. Balances by giving a safe zone to counter someone hiding in a safe zone. Pretty much recycles the MCC barrier code. Should stop a lot of QQ. The basic idea is that since we are the only ting in the game with no cover, we don't have anywhere near the same range, and it's surpemely difficult to transport due to how long we are vulnerable, we should have a safe zone at the very top of the map. You already do..... Oh.....I get it now, you wanna Hover with a MCRU & never take Damage. LOL.....just....lol. & "No Cover"??? Get FKING Gud Scrub. Lol. You want me to get good? No problem, I will be getting better as time goes on. What's your issue with that idea? We cant shoot anyone from the height ceiling which is less than what you can do cowering in the redline. MCRU's don't give any rewards and I'm pretty sure this would make it so we can drop off/pick up our infantry as transports rather than free kills. If you think there's lots of cover in the sky then perhaps you can point out where, all we really have are towers, buildings, and the MCC. And if you're incapable of going up a small hill to angle at the sky you're a worse rail tanker then 1/2 the militia scrub berries. The AV vs tank thing you said you had more skill points invested so you should be OP. Well we have more invested than you so we should be at least viable. You said you shouldn't lose your tank to something that cost less sp to get than your tank well it's not even 1/8 the sp to get into a standard tank as it is to get into an assault dropship while being cheaper isk wise. Your rail/blaster large turrest cost less sp than my small missile. Your faster than my dropship unless I'm using my after burners and even then if you just use nitro you're back there. You have nearly 4 times the hp, more modules, more killing potential, fitting options and cover yet you're afraid to grow a pair and leave your crutch ass redline. CCP bent over backwards to give you tankers every thing you asked for and you're upset about an idea that does nothing but lowers the time you can have your free kills and allows us to do our actual roles? ***** lame. Scrub down, good job. 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 07:29:00 - [119] - Quote Im not sure ho suggested this but crdit to him, replace the reline with a shield the MMc creats Shots cant go through and enemies cant go through hitting the shield with a dropship should be like hitting a normal wall "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 07:32:00 - [120] - Quote We could start by making ADS cheaper, yes they are a variant but they shoudent cost more more then 7 times the normal price it should cost around 100-159k "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 471	Posted - 2014.01.25 07:53:00 - [121] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. That's only if they aren't in the redline, but that's where 90% of them reside. Director of ZionTCD Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Scout (SoonGäó) TDBS
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 145	Posted - 2014.01.25 08:55:00 - [122] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but... Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree? Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. That's only if they aren't in the redline, but that's where 90% of them reside. So we can agree then that the red line is the main problem here. I also dont understand why the rail gun fires faster now, than it used to. Maybe reduce firing speed back to how it used to be?
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1342	Posted - 2014.01.25 09:48:00 - [123] - Quote If you want to see the rail tanks range and elevation on a chart, I did this. Its to scale. Redline to Redline is 600m and its based on spine crecent. I worked out the tanks elevation to be 45 degrees or near enough. The forge gunner is at the middle objective, Alpha that is on the bridge. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1541	Posted - 2014.01.25 09:57:00 - [124] - Quote i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1342	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:08:00 - [125] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: ....Once the red line rail sica is gone.... So never then. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:18:00 - [126] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1541	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:48:00 - [127] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: pegasis prime wrote: ....Once the red line rail sica is gone.... So never then. lol most red line rail tankers tend to be quite well crap and predictable , i.e. they allways return to the same spot severall times in one battle even when you have popped them 2 or 3 times but most give up after about 4 as they will mot profit from the game . patience is a virtue . when I was still training dropship pilots the first thng I tought them was that there was no need to pul out their ship at the start of every battle. A wise merc will strap on a forge gun and call in an lav to race round popping turrets and potential threats alike before calling in their ship . yes this sounds like allot of work to call in a ds but itll gain you a **** ton of wp for doing so , and with some of the battles lasting up to half an hour whats the rush to get in the skys with an ADS other than to hassle infantry unimpeded by nothing but forge guns and rail tanks. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1541	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:49:00 - [128] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:54:00 - [129] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 77	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:01:00 - [130] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster My booster is pro Pro hardener Adv heavy extender At missiles 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter militia frame, Templar set

pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1541	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:02:00 - [131] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:05:00 - [132] - Quote NK Scout wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster My booster is pro Pro hardener Adv heavy extender At missiles i prefer running pro missiles "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:10:00 - [133] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period. hmmm good digits i still prefer to be able to take one railgun shot before activating my modules.# ll try it "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Shi no Hauru Cazadores Seiei 0	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:14:00 - [134] - Quote If you're going to dumb down the rail turret better give me a mortar turret, cause I ain't dealling with mosquitoes with proto missiles and damg mods dropping infrabtry and droplinks on glichted places up high. So long that keeps happening I'll be laying on a rock in the redline aiming at the stars.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1343	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:18:00 - [135] - Quote Shi no Hauru wrote: If you're going to dumb down the rail turret better give me a mortar turret, cause I ain't dealling with mosquitoes with proto missiles and damg mods dropping infrabtry and droplinks on glichted places up high. So long that keeps happening I'll be laying on a rock in the redline aiming at the stars. Then your issue is with glitched map spots, and I assume if I go to the map sub forum I will find many posts from you highlighting these spots so the devs can address them, using the maps and grids they provided to help us fix these things. Also dumbing it down is a rather alarmist attitude. Did you look at my chart a few posts up? Does that not make you ask questions about the rail tank as a tool? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
sabre prime The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 52	Posted - 2014.01.25 13:59:00 - [136] - Quote I have nothing constructive to add to this thread. But with such an earnest title, I'm tickled by the fact that there are still no blue tags. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
a brackers Nex Miles Militis 1	Posted - 2014.01.25 14:49:00 - [137] - Quote My thoughts: 1; the red line should become a red line to friendlies after 1 min per life or something. This would kick them out of the red line. 2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, but make them be pushed a long way. This would be accurate to the laws of momentum. For this I think dropship's should get an automatic 70% resistance for gal (they're heavier) and 75% for caldari. Lav's should also get lower hp and a 20-30% rail gun resistance, however they should be pushed a bit and have a possibility of being flipped. However in order to encourage skill in rail guns, I think all vehicles should have a small area where there is some massive affect from being hit. E.g. On the underside of a caldari dropship there is a beam with radio active warning lables on it. I think a hit to this should cause either a 5-10 sec loss to all engine and gun power, or a 10-20 sec period where you couldn't activate any active modules and passive modules stopped working. A similar thing could be done with the box on the back of caldari hav's. Just my suggestions and btw I am a proto dropship pilot.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 450	Posted - 2014.01.25 18:04:00 - [138] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Speaker you say I want tanks nerfed. but all I requested was that the Devs let us know if the consider them an issue or not because many do. btw if you reed the sticky on recent topics the Devs are looking into militia tanks already. But there are many changes that would fix the issues without nerfing a tanks ability. Map changes for example. What I want is fair balance. currently the greater number in the community agree that rail tanks need a balance pass. this does not mean a nerf. in fact what would be a nerf in your eyes? for example if they reduced range but increased your elevation? Is that a nerf? Or if they doubled your range? Is that a nerf? A change may make your tank different in some way but not less effective at completing is role, just reduce it from being too effective in too many engagement types. A lot of people have said they feel rail tanks have an unfair advantage over other vehicles and infantry too. Many find that the game is made less enjoyable by them. it's not about hitting rid of threats but making fighting them fun . So here is the simple question.... Do you think rail tanks do not need any changes? If they do not need a change then explain why so we can make sure we are not asking for changes that ruin the game for rail tankers either. I play tanks and infantry. In my experiance I feel I have an unfair advantage in my tank. Hey, I'm a decent tanker, and I've been saying since week 2 of this update that tanks are OP. Anyone that would say otherwise is just plain stupid. I know it is fun rolling people with hardly an effort, I've been doing it for a while now. But things like the current state of tanks breaks the game for everyone else. Just yesterday, I did ambush looking for some infantry play, or I had intended to focus on infantry play. Then our side calls 2 tanks, so I'm like well why not. Before I know it, our side is maxed on tanks, the other sides tanks are fully suppressed, and we settle into another boring match. I'm struggling to max out this 3x the cap of SP, simply because every single game turns into a tank battle. Yeah it was cool at first, but now it's more of an annoyance. Blasters and missiles are nothing compared to the rail. Anymore, I call the rails in first. Why? Because a Railgun does massive damage to shields AND armor. Unlike the missiles that are ** against hardened gunnlogis, or the blasters that are ** against anything hardened. Rails can alpha most any tank in just 2 to 5 shots, using a single damage mod. Nerf nerf nerf, no nerf, it needs balancing, like you say Judge. Not just rails, but tanks in general need some balancing, to bring them UP to par with everything else around them. Nuff Said
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 375	Posted - 2014.01.25 18:50:00 - [139] - Quote sorry, judge, but these posts CCP always blow their noses on. the last vehicle thread had 30+ pages on it and every single thing in that thread was ignored. as much of a downer I am, i really tried holding out for hope on this game. Soon someone will take the concept of dust and do it right. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 301	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:26:00 - [140] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: sorry, judge, but these posts CCP always blow their noses on. the last vehicle thread had 30+ pages on it and every single thing in that thread was ignored. as much of a downer I am, i really tried holding out for hope on this game. Soon someone will take the concept of dust and do it right. it already egsists Planetsi-- nah what your describing will never happen, the gaming industry care more about money then making something new and fun "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 311	Posted - 2014.01.26 08:06:00 - [141] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: darkiller240 wrote: pegasis prime wrote: i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period. Tried your fit i must say its really good, but you can get ambushed really quikely and easily "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
ugg reset Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 458	Posted - 2014.01.26 22:10:00 - [142] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Often the only way it's possible to get an angle on a dropship (including its escape route) is to head back to the redline; for some reason the maps are designed with the largest hills in the safest locations. The hills in Like Harvest and Manus Peak are good examples of what I mean; the maps are narrow enough that you start to have difficulties if you've not maximised your firing angle. And because of all this, OHKO is important, because otherwise I might not get a second shot. Borne Velvalor wrote: ugg reset wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Just change the range and RoF slightly. Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m I OHKO'd a Python at 489m recently. Used a rail, don't remember popping anything but one ADS before I swapped to blasters. The thing with ADS is that in order to actually hit something, they need to make themselves relatively easy to hit. Shield ADS are often OHKOs without a hardener. Armor ADS are usually 2HKO. But at 500m it has to be OHKO or you're wasting your time. OHKO is fine, but at 400k isk a ship it gets to be a little obnoxious. Would you like your tanks to be OHKO? why not make an ADS that can take a hit or three? And don't tell me it can be done because I've seen it. sounds like my free LAV can take more punishment than your ADS Thr33 is the magic number.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 85	Posted - 2014.01.26 23:57:00 - [143] - Quote True, but an LAV can not swoop down and punish soft targets. I recently got AT missiles and they make a huge difference. Heavies with forges are much tougher, but in general most ground troops have no where to run and are often so worried about me that my other troops are ale to get them in cross fire. If ADS drop in price or increase in HP it could generate a lot of frustration in ground forces. I do like where they are at with balance in survivability. I guess something that would improve my experience would be by increasing the WP I can get in an ADS. This way a good run means I can easily purchase new vessels reasonably. FAME
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1349	Posted - 2014.01.27 02:35:00 - [144] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: If ADS drop in price or increase in HP it could generate a lot of frustration in ground forces. I very much agree with this. Dropships are close to being right. While the redline rails are a frustration we MUST NOT use them to buff ourselves to invincibility. The imbalance is frustration, but a moderate responce is required. I got some nice game mail from an enemy player who said I was one of the most frustrating players he has come across. His point was that My dropship is effective enough to make a difference when piloted well, but not so much that it is a load of BS. The rail tank needs a gentle touch. That said I think many accept that using it in the redline is just not a fair mechanic. The current price seems right. It stops spam, but it is the over effectiveness of rails that makes them seem costly. An HP increase would make us OP and I do not support it for the ADS (i reserve judgement on the other dropships, as a speed/maneuverability change may fix them) Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight


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