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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
471
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Posted - 2014.01.25 07:53:00 -
[121] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but...
Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree?
Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. That's only if they aren't in the redline, but that's where 90% of them reside.
Director of ZionTCD
Amarr Logi | Amarr Sentinel | Amarr Scout (SoonGäó)
TDBS
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
145
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Posted - 2014.01.25 08:55:00 -
[122] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Judge, I like you and I like what you do with your videos for the community but...
Not content with the general non-consensus in your other thread so you decide to create a new one? The only thing I will concede is that the red line is the bane of your problems. Would you agree?
Those rail tanks can only hit you when you are at a low angle and out at range, once you come in close you can barrage them to death should you so desire. That's only if they aren't in the redline, but that's where 90% of them reside.
So we can agree then that the red line is the main problem here.
I also dont understand why the rail gun fires faster now, than it used to. Maybe reduce firing speed back to how it used to be? |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1342
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Posted - 2014.01.25 09:48:00 -
[123] - Quote
If you want to see the rail tanks range and elevation on a chart, I did this. Its to scale. Redline to Redline is 600m and its based on spine crecent. I worked out the tanks elevation to be 45 degrees or near enough.
The forge gunner is at the middle objective, Alpha that is on the bridge.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1541
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Posted - 2014.01.25 09:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1342
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Posted - 2014.01.25 10:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:....Once the red line rail sica is gone....
So never then.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy
300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 10:18:00 -
[126] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1541
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Posted - 2014.01.25 10:48:00 -
[127] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:pegasis prime wrote:....Once the red line rail sica is gone.... So never then.
lol most red line rail tankers tend to be quite well crap and predictable , i.e. they allways return to the same spot severall times in one battle even when you have popped them 2 or 3 times but most give up after about 4 as they will mot profit from the game . patience is a virtue . when I was still training dropship pilots the first thng I tought them was that there was no need to pul out their ship at the start of every battle. A wise merc will strap on a forge gun and call in an lav to race round popping turrets and potential threats alike before calling in their ship . yes this sounds like allot of work to call in a ds but itll gain you a **** ton of wp for doing so , and with some of the battles lasting up to half an hour whats the rush to get in the skys with an ADS other than to hassle infantry unimpeded by nothing but forge guns and rail tanks.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1541
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Posted - 2014.01.25 10:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k
ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy
300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 10:54:00 -
[129] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster My booster is pro Pro hardener Adv heavy extender At missiles
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter militia frame,
Templar set
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1541
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:02:00 -
[131] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster
2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy
300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:05:00 -
[132] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster My booster is pro Pro hardener Adv heavy extender At missiles i prefer running pro missiles
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy
300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:10:00 -
[133] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period. hmmm good digits i still prefer to be able to take one railgun shot before activating my modules.# ll try it
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Shi no Hauru
Cazadores Seiei
0
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
If you're going to dumb down the rail turret better give me a mortar turret, cause I ain't dealling with mosquitoes with proto missiles and damg mods dropping infrabtry and droplinks on glichted places up high.
So long that keeps happening I'll be laying on a rock in the redline aiming at the stars. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1343
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
Shi no Hauru wrote:If you're going to dumb down the rail turret better give me a mortar turret, cause I ain't dealling with mosquitoes with proto missiles and damg mods dropping infrabtry and droplinks on glichted places up high.
So long that keeps happening I'll be laying on a rock in the redline aiming at the stars.
Then your issue is with glitched map spots, and I assume if I go to the map sub forum I will find many posts from you highlighting these spots so the devs can address them, using the maps and grids they provided to help us fix these things.
Also dumbing it down is a rather alarmist attitude. Did you look at my chart a few posts up? Does that not make you ask questions about the rail tank as a tool?
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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sabre prime
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
52
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Posted - 2014.01.25 13:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
I have nothing constructive to add to this thread. But with such an earnest title, I'm tickled by the fact that there are still no blue tags.
Desperate attempt to get BPOs
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a brackers
Nex Miles Militis
1
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Posted - 2014.01.25 14:49:00 -
[137] - Quote
My thoughts: 1; the red line should become a red line to friendlies after 1 min per life or something. This would kick them out of the red line.
2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, but make them be pushed a long way. This would be accurate to the laws of momentum. For this I think dropship's should get an automatic 70% resistance for gal (they're heavier) and 75% for caldari. Lav's should also get lower hp and a 20-30% rail gun resistance, however they should be pushed a bit and have a possibility of being flipped.
However in order to encourage skill in rail guns, I think all vehicles should have a small area where there is some massive affect from being hit. E.g. On the underside of a caldari dropship there is a beam with radio active warning lables on it. I think a hit to this should cause either a 5-10 sec loss to all engine and gun power, or a 10-20 sec period where you couldn't activate any active modules and passive modules stopped working. A similar thing could be done with the box on the back of caldari hav's.
Just my suggestions and btw I am a proto dropship pilot. |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
450
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Posted - 2014.01.25 18:04:00 -
[138] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Speaker you say I want tanks nerfed. but all I requested was that the Devs let us know if the consider them an issue or not because many do. btw if you reed the sticky on recent topics the Devs are looking into militia tanks already. But there are many changes that would fix the issues without nerfing a tanks ability. Map changes for example.
What I want is fair balance. currently the greater number in the community agree that rail tanks need a balance pass. this does not mean a nerf. in fact what would be a nerf in your eyes? for example if they reduced range but increased your elevation? Is that a nerf? Or if they doubled your range? Is that a nerf? A change may make your tank different in some way but not less effective at completing is role, just reduce it from being too effective in too many engagement types.
A lot of people have said they feel rail tanks have an unfair advantage over other vehicles and infantry too. Many find that the game is made less enjoyable by them. it's not about hitting rid of threats but making fighting them fun .
So here is the simple question.... Do you think rail tanks do not need any changes? If they do not need a change then explain why so we can make sure we are not asking for changes that ruin the game for rail tankers either. I play tanks and infantry. In my experiance I feel I have an unfair advantage in my tank.
Hey, I'm a decent tanker, and I've been saying since week 2 of this update that tanks are OP. Anyone that would say otherwise is just plain stupid. I know it is fun rolling people with hardly an effort, I've been doing it for a while now. But things like the current state of tanks breaks the game for everyone else.
Just yesterday, I did ambush looking for some infantry play, or I had intended to focus on infantry play. Then our side calls 2 tanks, so I'm like well why not. Before I know it, our side is maxed on tanks, the other sides tanks are fully suppressed, and we settle into another boring match. I'm struggling to max out this 3x the cap of SP, simply because every single game turns into a tank battle. Yeah it was cool at first, but now it's more of an annoyance.
Blasters and missiles are nothing compared to the rail. Anymore, I call the rails in first. Why? Because a Railgun does massive damage to shields AND armor. Unlike the missiles that are **** against hardened gunnlogis, or the blasters that are **** against anything hardened. Rails can alpha most any tank in just 2 to 5 shots, using a single damage mod.
Nerf nerf nerf, no nerf, it needs balancing, like you say Judge. Not just rails, but tanks in general need some balancing, to bring them UP to par with everything else around them.
Nuff Said
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TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES
375
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Posted - 2014.01.25 18:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
sorry, judge, but these posts CCP always blow their noses on. the last vehicle thread had 30+ pages on it and every single thing in that thread was ignored.
as much of a downer I am, i really tried holding out for hope on this game.
Soon someone will take the concept of dust and do it right.
Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
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darkiller240
WarRavens League of Infamy
301
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Posted - 2014.01.25 19:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote:sorry, judge, but these posts CCP always blow their noses on. the last vehicle thread had 30+ pages on it and every single thing in that thread was ignored.
as much of a downer I am, i really tried holding out for hope on this game.
Soon someone will take the concept of dust and do it right. it already egsists Planetsi-- nah what your describing will never happen, the gaming industry care more about money then making something new and fun
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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darkiller240
WarRavens League of Infamy
311
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Posted - 2014.01.26 08:06:00 -
[141] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:darkiller240 wrote:pegasis prime wrote:i have read severall of these Rail tanks ruin my dropship game threads , and to be honest as a tanker and a pilot I haven't had as bad a time as you seem to have had lol , 2 hardners and 1 shield booster will let you tank pretty much any thing for a short time period in your python giving you time to get away and recall , maby just maby to take care of the red line threat???? Once the red line rail sica is gone just call back in your ship and bobs a monkeys aunty your in the air again simples. this is a dynamic game with dynamic battlefields that require you to be able to adapt to what ever is thrown at you. Hmm i prefer having 2.5 k shield then 1.5k ill bet you my fit has a much higher effective hp than yours. whats your fit mine Adv heavy shied extender Pro Hardener Adv booster 2 complex shield hardeners and a complex light shield booster , I can run 60% resists for 1 minute and with a complex light shield booster I can regen all my shields 2wice during that cycle. so 1.5k with 60% resists gives aprox 3.3k ehp and with the ability to reboost 2wice that gives me 9.9k ehp over the span of 60 seconds with a 12 second cool down period. Tried your fit i must say its really good, but you can get ambushed really quikely and easily
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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ugg reset
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
458
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Posted - 2014.01.26 22:10:00 -
[142] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Often the only way it's possible to get an angle on a dropship (including its escape route) is to head back to the redline; for some reason the maps are designed with the largest hills in the safest locations. The hills in Like Harvest and Manus Peak are good examples of what I mean; the maps are narrow enough that you start to have difficulties if you've not maximised your firing angle. And because of all this, OHKO is important, because otherwise I might not get a second shot. Borne Velvalor wrote:ugg reset wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Just change the range and RoF slightly.
Our maps are too small to utilize 600m (no drop off, I might add) with out redline abuse. Not only to mention that with that range and the angle of the gun, rails can shoot very high into the air into a dropship's "safe height." Reduce the range to 350m effective range (100% damage) with a steep damage curve to 450m at 20% damage or so. Cap it any further. you couldn't hit the broad side of a Dropship and 400m let alone 600m I OHKO'd a Python at 489m recently. Used a rail, don't remember popping anything but one ADS before I swapped to blasters. The thing with ADS is that in order to actually hit something, they need to make themselves relatively easy to hit. Shield ADS are often OHKOs without a hardener. Armor ADS are usually 2HKO. But at 500m it has to be OHKO or you're wasting your time. OHKO is fine, but at 400k isk a ship it gets to be a little obnoxious. Would you like your tanks to be OHKO?
why not make an ADS that can take a hit or three? And don't tell me it can be done because I've seen it. sounds like my free LAV can take more punishment than your ADS
Thr33 is the magic number.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
85
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Posted - 2014.01.26 23:57:00 -
[143] - Quote
True, but an LAV can not swoop down and punish soft targets. I recently got AT missiles and they make a huge difference. Heavies with forges are much tougher, but in general most ground troops have no where to run and are often so worried about me that my other troops are ale to get them in cross fire. If ADS drop in price or increase in HP it could generate a lot of frustration in ground forces. I do like where they are at with balance in survivability.
I guess something that would improve my experience would be by increasing the WP I can get in an ADS. This way a good run means I can easily purchase new vessels reasonably.
FAME
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1349
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Posted - 2014.01.27 02:35:00 -
[144] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: If ADS drop in price or increase in HP it could generate a lot of frustration in ground forces.
I very much agree with this. Dropships are close to being right. While the redline rails are a frustration we MUST NOT use them to buff ourselves to invincibility. The imbalance is frustration, but a moderate responce is required.
I got some nice game mail from an enemy player who said I was one of the most frustrating players he has come across. His point was that My dropship is effective enough to make a difference when piloted well, but not so much that it is a load of BS.
The rail tank needs a gentle touch. That said I think many accept that using it in the redline is just not a fair mechanic. The current price seems right. It stops spam, but it is the over effectiveness of rails that makes them seem costly. An HP increase would make us OP and I do not support it for the ADS (i reserve judgement on the other dropships, as a speed/maneuverability change may fix them)
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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