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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11749	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:25:00 - [1] - Quote Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. Must be difficult to fit. Is CPU Intensive Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun Cloaks have an endurance time Cloaks have a cooldown time Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts) Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina) Can issue squad commands, call in vehicles, and use orbital support while cloaked. Can climb ladders while cloaked Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged. Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7723	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:29:00 - [2] - Quote My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11751	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:32:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. Overall the more I think about the more I think we just need a blanket fitting bonus to all specialist suits Scouts: cloak Assaults : upgrade modules (biotics and damage mods currently) Logi : Deployable Equipment Sentinel : heavy weapon Commando : light weapon CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. I'm sure you'll be seeing it most any suit types...so long as players are comfortable giving up equipment/module strength in return. Life is killing me.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:37:00 - [5] - Quote Quite the list of demands. I could shorten that list by making the first one be "Release the cloaking dev blog" so that we know how they intend for them to work. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 198	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 - [6] - Quote I would edit some things: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) to Cannot activate within 5 seconds of taking damage or while regenerating shields Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. to Cloaks are deactivated upon beginning to hack and alert system shows player on map upon this for enemies within 15 meters Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. to Players within 2 meters friendly or foe can clearly see cloaked user (similar to shadowfall in how it would look) Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. to Cannot use or place equipment besides RE's which one can detonate but not place until uncloaked No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. adjusted so You can have your gun out but firing will activate a 4 second delay once over the users weapon will start firing (with slight recharge delay of 8 sec), deactivating using your equipment will do as said but without penalty to recharging and slightly faster Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1968	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [7] - Quote If shimmer on cloaks is actually a significant drawback of sprinting with them, I'm anxious to see how deadly they are in CQC. The fear seems to be how they would be used with sniper rifles. I'm not sure about the fitting restrictions of sniper rifles on scouts, but what I do know is that I rarely see snipers on their first shot. Often it takes more than one shot to kill a player too. As has been mentioned that sniper rifles will likely completely phase off the cloak, which may let it come back fairly quickly, but a rapid fire succession of shots would/could likely be enough to render the cloak pointless during shooting. I think some things remain to be seen: 1) How much do different weapons dephase the cloak? If I'm 100% visible after 250 damage leaves my weapon and it takes 2-3 seconds before I'm invisible + shimmering again as I move away that could be tactically balanced. 2) How much of a liability is this shimmer effect? If you cant really pull off a shot gun/knife scout because you light up a room because you are glowing then really shooting from invisibility isn't that great of an advantage.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 604	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:50:00 - [8] - Quote Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - Only if you get rid of equipment spam. Check that. No, this has long been a ploy in warfare to disguise numbers A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - Why, to make it easier for players who already dont try to improve their situational awareness Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - Consoles and OMS objects already display messages when being hacked, players can go check them out or throw a grenade Is this new eden or daddy day care? In your blind spot
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 199	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:53:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Do you hate Gallente/Amaar armor tanks because it would be get shot twice (possibly by bluedot in FW), can't cloak for a minute or more Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. Quote from how it will work. I personally don't think it will be as OP as everyone is saying. The crosshairs will flash red alerting Anyone that there is a cloaked suit there. Also moving will have a shimmer effect. We don't know yet how much but I will bet it will be enough for the vets to notice it Not too mention the crazy Sticky aim your weapon gets when there is an enemy. Not being able to shoot is dumb IMO. You should be able to shoot at least the first shot in whatever gun you're using. Snipers will be able to get one shot off from what remnant stated GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY

Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1023	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [11] - Quote Ironwolf, I have to disagree on cloaked vehicle call-in. During call-in is one of the few chances players have to mitigate a large and nearly indestructible vehicle from entering the play field. Call-in is fast enough already that a player not standing still should not die generally before their vehicle is called in, but the chance for someone to kill a tanker waiting for his tank and then to steal it is important for gameplay. Additionally, a dedicated vehicle driver has no disincentive not to fit a cloak, given that their dropsuit modules are hardly important. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 341	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:59:00 - [12] - Quote Man, a lot of people are afraid of these cloaks. Deactivation by hackables? No. Deactivation in proximity to hostiles? No...if they bump you, yes. As the other dude said, people just don#t want to take situational awareness into account in their fittings--ohh we have to hear you, we have to deactivate you QQ!!! Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11752	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:02:00 - [13] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - Only if you get rid of equipment spam. Check that. No, this has long been a ploy in warfare to disguise numbers A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - Why, to make it easier for players who already dont try to improve their situational awareness Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - Consoles and OMS objects already display messages when being hacked, players can go check them out or throw a grenade Is this new eden or daddy day care? If you don't understand don't comment. 1 other subject elsewhere; focus. 2 because you cannot improve sound pickup in the game itself by ingame means. 3 has nothing to do with things getting hacked. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11752	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:05:00 - [14] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Ironwolf, I have to disagree on cloaked vehicle call-in. During call-in is one of the few chances players have to mitigate a large and nearly indestructible vehicle from entering the play field. Call-in is fast enough already that a player not standing still should not die generally before their vehicle is called in, but the chance for someone to kill a tanker waiting for his tank and then to steal it is important for gameplay. Additionally, a dedicated vehicle driver has no disincentive not to fit a cloak, given that their dropsuit modules are hardly important. hmm I might have to change the vehicle call in then. Yeah Ill have to change that then. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11752	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:08:00 - [15] - Quote Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Do you hate Gallente/Amaar armor tanks because it would be get shot twice (possibly by bluedot in FW), can't cloak for a minute or more Well the rules would apply to vehicles cloaks as well if ever brought in. This would also encourage the use of reppers over plates with cloaks. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 604	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:15:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - Only if you get rid of equipment spam. Check that. No, this has long been a ploy in warfare to disguise numbers A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - Why, to make it easier for players who already dont try to improve their situational awareness Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - Consoles and OMS objects already display messages when being hacked, players can go check them out or throw a grenade Is this new eden or daddy day care? If you don't understand don't comment. 1 other subject elsewhere; focus. 2 because you cannot improve sound pickup in the game itself by ingame means. 3 has nothing to do with things getting hacked. Maybe then you should write with more clarity - I certainly didnt ** in your coffee and this is why people take issue with you. 1. disregard equipment spam then. Second point stands 2. sound in this game is crappy as is. It goes out way too much. Besides that you dont need an audible cue on decloak. It promotes lazy players imo. 3. So you mean if a player gets close to an objective / OMS their cloak should drop? WHY - Once again lazy gameplay. If players are camping that area, look for the shimmer, wait to see if there is a message, patrol with scanner You arent the be all an end all so explain better to gain support and come off your high horse. In your blind spot**
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 200	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:15:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Do you hate Gallente/Amaar armor tanks because it would be get shot twice (possibly by bluedot in FW), can't cloak for a minute or more Well the rules would apply to vehicles cloaks as well if ever brought in. This would also encourage the use of reppers over plates with cloaks. I would like to keep a few rule sets as possible between the different fields of combat. Vehicle cloaks this would be fine, as I said earlier just make it so you can activate cloak while armor is regening (not repair tool) this would expand customization options not decrease them to one build for Gal/Amaar while Cal/Min have many Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3178	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:17:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. You wanna battle / Aztec's not afraid of you / I could care less about your reputation / Even though it maybe true.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:28:00 - [19] - Quote How do you see cloaks and sniper rifles interacting? If you have to use the equipment radial menu before firing, then you'll always have the scope sway to deal with. This would make cloaks only useful for getting into position, but still make you a sitting duck once there. I was hoping cloaks would make sniping from locations other than the redline a viable option. One way to address this, if you insist on the decloaking before firing mechanic, is to let the trigger pull decloak you without firing, and then enable the ability to fire once you've completed decloaking. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11758	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:29:00 - [20] - Quote Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Do you hate Gallente/Amaar armor tanks because it would be get shot twice (possibly by bluedot in FW), can't cloak for a minute or more Well the rules would apply to vehicles cloaks as well if ever brought in. This would also encourage the use of reppers over plates with cloaks. I would like to keep a few rule sets as possible between the different fields of combat. Vehicle cloaks this would be fine, as I said earlier just make it so you can activate cloak while armor is regening (not repair tool) this would expand customization options not decrease them to one build for Gal/Amaar while Cal/Min have many How about this then? Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:35:00 - [21] - Quote Also, could you poke CCP to see if they can release a short clip of the cloaking effects, stationary, in motion, sprinting, etc? They could make it clear that the footage is not final, still in development, etc. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11758	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:36:00 - [22] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: How do you see cloaks and sniper rifles interacting? If you have to use the equipment radial menu before firing, then you'll always have the scope sway to deal with. I was hoping cloaks would make sniping from locations other than the redline a viable option. One way to address this, if you insist on the decloaking before firing mechanic, is to let the trigger pull decloak you without firing, and then enable the ability to fire once you've completed decloaking. I don't seen cloaking snipers to be as large of a problem, mainly due to the fact that most sniper rifles cannot one shot people and those that can would like not be able to do so after the cloak is installed hopefully. Most snipers are idiots and don't move between firing especially when they're noted to being there. (where as I at least move positions if I know I been compromised) Overall decloaking by the player should be as easy as swapping a weapon, it shouldn't be cumbersome so if you're ditch sniping an unwary person on a roof you shoul dbe able to pull it off easy as you'll be out of noise range and you picking to lop his head off would be at your opportune moment not his. Player decloaking is also controlled so no disruptive cooldown and the regular cooldown could be sufficiently long enough to empty a sniper rifle (or just about any other weapon mayhaps exclude the forge gun and mass driver and shotgun due to large time to mag empty) where as a disrupted cloak you're going to be screwed until the threat loses interest or threat is eliminated. However this thinking only applies to the current crop of the average sniper. I haven't ran into any 'smart snipers' lately but I won't discount they don't exist and because I haven't ran into too many of them I have no idea how'd they use the cloak yet which is the big unknown on my end. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11758	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:37:00 - [23] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Also, could you poke CCP to see if they can release a short clip of the cloaking effects, stationary, in motion, sprinting, etc? They could make it clear that the footage is not final, still in development, etc. Depends, I can poke but I can't get any promises of early public release. Marketing is like that sometimes ><. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
pagl1u M Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 204	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:39:00 - [24] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. Explain this plz. So of my shields or my armor are recharging I Cannot activate it. It looks Strange to me
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1028	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:41:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't seen cloaking snipers to be as large of a problem, mainly due to the fact that most sniper rifles cannot one shot people and those that can would like not be able to do so after the cloak is installed hopefully. A notable issue here, is the Charge Sniper Rifle being possibly a bit OP if you can charge it while cloaked. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3181	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:42:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about this then? Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) I like it. Add it to the OP if you haven't already. You wanna battle / Aztec's not afraid of you / I could care less about your reputation / Even though it maybe true.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 555	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:43:00 - [27] - Quote What would you think of the hypothetical idea of scout suits coming with built-in cloaks? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11760	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:48:00 - [28] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. Explain this plz. So of my shields or my armor are recharging I Cannot activate it. It looks Strange to me A stealth fighter loses all radar invisibility while the RAM (radar absorbent material) is damage, a small nick is enough to compromise the entire craft. So as long as the field and armor is comprised since cloaking is a rather extensive system relying on both systems to mask visual and electronic signatures if the systems is computing repairs and the entire system is unwhole it cannot effectively cloak while the values of the systems changes at the same time but once either system is full up it can then cloak up. That was the original thought behind the statement. After applying the rule I played it out in my head a bit on the balance aspects for the game That most being involving vehicles Vehicles are already quite powerful and hard to kill the last thing I know players would hate to see is a damaged tank running off and ploof! disappears. I also wanted as few exceptions (ie commando gets a special penalty for using cloaks for example) on the cloaks so I kept the rule the same for infantry. I do know that if you do an armor suite tank instead of a focus type tank the hp gain rates are indeed awfully low but the focus ones can repair extensively faster than some people can cope with. But overall I think the adjusted bullet point of making it only external factors of the HP are counted and not internal ones while adding a new rule about other active modules should make it fair to both vehicles and infantry, vehicles now have to time their wave of opportunity better as some modules have an exhaustively long cooldown and that cloaking does put the vehicle into a state of weakness of sorts as there will be no hardeners or damage, or navigation modules to assist their survival should they be compromised going into cloaks or coming out of it disruptively. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11761	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:49:00 - [29] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about this then? Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) I like it. Add it to the OP if you haven't already. Done. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11761	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:53:00 - [30] - Quote Spademan wrote: What would you think of the hypothetical idea of scout suits coming with built-in cloaks? I can also see this working if done right, but this does remove some sandbox if there is no module to compliment this as I would like to see a commando try to shove on a cloak for the lulz at least. There has to be the module at least even if done this way and the module has to be true built in not provided yellow box (as in you cannot see it on the fitting screen list of modules) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2716	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:56:00 - [31] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. I'm sure you'll be seeing it most any suit types...so long as players are comfortable giving up equipment/module strength in return. Meh I'm used to running with no modules....basic commando has made me efficient without modules. EDIT: and I WILL BE equipping cloaks to my commando suit, unless ccp decided to give me more slots, other wise I have all of this unused pg and cpu. Proud member of the Commando 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11761	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:57:00 - [32] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. I'm sure you'll be seeing it most any suit types...so long as players are comfortable giving up equipment/module strength in return. Meh I'm used to running with no modules....basic commando has made me efficient without modules. EDIT: and I WILL BE equipping cloaks to my commando suit, unless ccp decided to give me more slots, other wise I have all of this unused pg and cpu. I think the concern with gal logi is slapping one one and remaining near full strength still. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2717	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:59:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. I'm sure you'll be seeing it most any suit types...so long as players are comfortable giving up equipment/module strength in return. Meh I'm used to running with no modules....basic commando has made me efficient without modules. EDIT: and I WILL BE equipping cloaks to my commando suit, unless ccp decided to give me more slots, other wise I have all of this unused pg and cpu. I think the concern with gal logi is slapping one one and remaining near full strength still. But don't gallente suits have a high pg and a moderate CPU? Proud member of the Commando 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois Maphia Clan Corporation 65	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:00:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vehicles are already quite powerful and hard to kill the last thing I know players would hate to see is a damaged tank running off and ploof! disappears. That already happens - say thanks to current game rendering. If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11764	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:01:00 - [35] - Quote Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vehicles are already quite powerful and hard to kill the last thing I know players would hate to see is a damaged tank running off and ploof! disappears. That already happens - say thanks to current game rendering. That can be fixed though over time, I don't want this to be like oh dear middle fire fight! Poof! Ninja tank! CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Kuroiokami Tsukinaku A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 13	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:06:00 - [36] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber How about this then? [* wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) Soooo if I'm a scout.. I cloak..and run over a hive I lose cloak? Or newbie greifing logibro trys to rep me and I lose cloak?
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 555	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:07:00 - [37] - Quote Edit: Ignore I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Medical Crash cobra connection Public Disorder. 167	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:21:00 - [38] - Quote Will cloaks do anything to a Dropsuits signature? Will it help to hide against scanners?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11764	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:26:00 - [39] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Will cloaks do anything to a Dropsuits signature? Will it help to hide against scanners? that is the other big unknown at the time I wished scanners got altered in such a way they would be better for both scanner and scannee in making the game funner. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 781	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:40:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Ironwolf, I have to disagree on cloaked vehicle call-in. During call-in is one of the few chances players have to mitigate a large and nearly indestructible vehicle from entering the play field. Call-in is fast enough already that a player not standing still should not die generally before their vehicle is called in, but the chance for someone to kill a tanker waiting for his tank and then to steal it is important for gameplay. Additionally, a dedicated vehicle driver has no disincentive not to fit a cloak, given that their dropsuit modules are hardly important. hmm I might have to change the vehicle call in then. Yeah Ill have to change that then. How about sitting in a vehicle? Can I be cloaked? It would be cool to do a "Flying Dutchman" where I sit in a stationary LAV and wait for a hacker. Munch Munch for CPM 1 Campaign Headquarters

Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 200	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:42:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Do you hate Gallente/Amaar armor tanks because it would be get shot twice (possibly by bluedot in FW), can't cloak for a minute or more Well the rules would apply to vehicles cloaks as well if ever brought in. This would also encourage the use of reppers over plates with cloaks. I would like to keep a few rule sets as possible between the different fields of combat. Vehicle cloaks this would be fine, as I said earlier just make it so you can activate cloak while armor is regening (not repair tool) this would expand customization options not decrease them to one build for Gal/Amaar while Cal/Min have many How about this then? Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) That's alot better as it wouldn't limit Amaar to shield tanking and Gallente to no health or no regen Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2503	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:43:00 - [42] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Ironwolf, I have to disagree on cloaked vehicle call-in. During call-in is one of the few chances players have to mitigate a large and nearly indestructible vehicle from entering the play field. Call-in is fast enough already that a player not standing still should not die generally before their vehicle is called in, but the chance for someone to kill a tanker waiting for his tank and then to steal it is important for gameplay. Additionally, a dedicated vehicle driver has no disincentive not to fit a cloak, given that their dropsuit modules are hardly important. hmm I might have to change the vehicle call in then. Yeah Ill have to change that then. How about sitting in a vehicle? Can I be cloaked? It would be cool to do a "Flying Dutchman" where I sit in a stationary LAV and wait for a hacker. Munch I don't see an issue with being cloaked while in a vehicle as a passenger, but you should not be able to be cloaked if you are operating a turret. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 200	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:48:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pagl1u M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. Explain this plz. So of my shields or my armor are recharging I Cannot activate it. It looks Strange to me A stealth fighter loses all radar invisibility while the RAM (radar absorbent material) is damage, a small nick is enough to compromise the entire craft. So as long as the field and armor is comprised since cloaking is a rather extensive system relying on both systems to mask visual and electronic signatures if the systems is computing repairs and the entire system is unwhole it cannot effectively cloak while the values of the systems changes at the same time but once either system is full up it can then cloak up. That was the original thought behind the statement. After applying the rule I played it out in my head a bit on the balance aspects for the game That most being involving vehicles Vehicles are already quite powerful and hard to kill the last thing I know players would hate to see is a damaged tank running off and ploof! disappears. I also wanted as few exceptions (ie commando gets a special penalty for using cloaks for example) on the cloaks so I kept the rule the same for infantry. I do know that if you do an armor suite tank instead of a focus type tank the hp gain rates are indeed awfully low but the focus ones can repair extensively faster than some people can cope with. But overall I think the adjusted bullet point of making it only external factors of the HP are counted and not internal ones while adding a new rule about other active modules should make it fair to both vehicles and infantry, vehicles now have to time their wave of opportunity better as some modules have an exhaustively long cooldown and that cloaking does put the vehicle into a state of weakness of sorts as there will be no hardeners or damage, or navigation modules to assist their survival should they be compromised going into cloaks or coming out of it disruptively. Your destroying my dreams of a cloaked Gallente Commando with AR and PLC but yeah any chance CCP could buff the skill that decreases PLC requirements? Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11773	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:54:00 - [44] - Quote Galthur wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pagl1u M wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. Explain this plz. So of my shields or my armor are recharging I Cannot activate it. It looks Strange to me A stealth fighter loses all radar invisibility while the RAM (radar absorbent material) is damage, a small nick is enough to compromise the entire craft. So as long as the field and armor is comprised since cloaking is a rather extensive system relying on both systems to mask visual and electronic signatures if the systems is computing repairs and the entire system is unwhole it cannot effectively cloak while the values of the systems changes at the same time but once either system is full up it can then cloak up. That was the original thought behind the statement. After applying the rule I played it out in my head a bit on the balance aspects for the game That most being involving vehicles Vehicles are already quite powerful and hard to kill the last thing I know players would hate to see is a damaged tank running off and ploof! disappears. I also wanted as few exceptions (ie commando gets a special penalty for using cloaks for example) on the cloaks so I kept the rule the same for infantry. I do know that if you do an armor suite tank instead of a focus type tank the hp gain rates are indeed awfully low but the focus ones can repair extensively faster than some people can cope with. But overall I think the adjusted bullet point of making it only external factors of the HP are counted and not internal ones while adding a new rule about other active modules should make it fair to both vehicles and infantry, vehicles now have to time their wave of opportunity better as some modules have an exhaustively long cooldown and that cloaking does put the vehicle into a state of weakness of sorts as there will be no hardeners or damage, or navigation modules to assist their survival should they be compromised going into cloaks or coming out of it disruptively. Your destroying my dreams of a cloaked Gallente Commando with AR and PLC but yeah any chance CCP could buff the skill that decreases PLC PG/CPU? Am not also the gal commando or minmatar might have fitting for it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 760	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:23:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Also, could you poke CCP to see if they can release a short clip of the cloaking effects, stationary, in motion, sprinting, etc? They could make it clear that the footage is not final, still in development, etc. Depends, I can poke but I can't get any promises of early public release. Marketing is like that sometimes ><. Thanks. I realize there's no guarantees, but in this case I think it would help inform the conversation and improve the quality of feedback from the community. It's hard to discuss a visual effect without actually seeing what they have in mind. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1113	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:32:00 - [46] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: My greatest concern is that I will be able to simply toss one on my Gallogi. Overall the more I think about the more I think we just need a blanket fitting bonus to all specialist suits Scouts: cloak Assaults : upgrade modules (biotics and damage mods currently) Logi : Deployable Equipment Sentinel : heavy weapon Commando : light weapon Ehh.... Why do the assaults get biotics? That is a specialty of light suits (not just scouts) How about adding bonuses to the frames and giving fitting bonuses like (fill in with what seems logical): Lights: Biotics Scouts: E-War (Jammers, Cloaks, etc.) Mediums: Assaults: Weapon modifications (Damage mods, infantry heat sinks, ammo cache, etc.) Logis: Equipment (or create a subset called "Logistical equipment" then give them a higher bonus?) Heavies: Sentinels: Plates & Extenders Commandos: !
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2643	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:32:00 - [47] - Quote I highly disagree with a forceful decloak within proximity of an enemy/installation etc. While this would be useful for assaults/logis unless that range is like 1m it will not help scouts, it will not help the scout role besides helping them cross the street which is a waste of an equipment slot. It will also make people just hide by objectives and installations if they think a scout is near like they did when installations had vision. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1667	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:38:00 - [48] - Quote I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11780	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:45:00 - [49] - Quote mollerz wrote: I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. cloaking has been in eve for 8 years, its the most complained about feature to this day that has yet to be nerfed, namely on the grounds a guy sitting middle of nowhere can never be found ever even if he afks for months on end while cloaked. Only one nerf was ever thrown on it and it only affected non covert ships the most. Knowing that track record its best to bring it in prenerfed. Than pre-lame. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2644	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:54:00 - [50] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. cloaking has been in eve for 8 years, its the most complained about feature to this day that has yet to be nerfed, namely on the grounds a guy sitting middle of nowhere can never be found ever even if he afks for months on end while cloaked. Only one nerf was ever thrown on it and it only affected non covert ships the most. Knowing that track record its best to bring it in prenerfed. Than pre-lame. Considering the scout's bonus and role has to deal with the cloak is should NOT come prenerfed. You then bring this already weak role into a position where it's even weaker because it's bonus deals with a piece of a equipment that would be near useless for anything but walking around when nobody is around. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11781	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:55:00 - [51] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. cloaking has been in eve for 8 years, its the most complained about feature to this day that has yet to be nerfed, namely on the grounds a guy sitting middle of nowhere can never be found ever even if he afks for months on end while cloaked. Only one nerf was ever thrown on it and it only affected non covert ships the most. Knowing that track record its best to bring it in prenerfed. Than pre-lame. Considering the scout's bonus and role has to deal with the cloak is should NOT come prenerfed. You then bring this already weak role into a position where it's even weaker because it's bonus deals with a piece of a equipment that would be near useless for anything but walking around when nobody is around. Im trying to get rid of cloaking bonuses on scouts to be honest, Scouts should be viable without them. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2644	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:56:00 - [52] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. cloaking has been in eve for 8 years, its the most complained about feature to this day that has yet to be nerfed, namely on the grounds a guy sitting middle of nowhere can never be found ever even if he afks for months on end while cloaked. Only one nerf was ever thrown on it and it only affected non covert ships the most. Knowing that track record its best to bring it in prenerfed. Than pre-lame. Considering the scout's bonus and role has to deal with the cloak is should NOT come prenerfed. You then bring this already weak role into a position where it's even weaker because it's bonus deals with a piece of a equipment that would be near useless for anything but walking around when nobody is around. Im trying to get rid of cloaking bonuses on scouts to be honest, Scouts should be viable without them. Then why have cloaks in the first place if they're just cumbersome and useless? I do not agree with this direction. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1670	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:59:00 - [53] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument[/u = B00LSHITE ] I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. [u]My scout expert fixes in bold. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. - Ok fine. Must be difficult to fit. - OK. Is CPU Intensive - Why not, what isn't for a scout. Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) - Cool. Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots - OK fine. Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) - BOOLSHITE. mostly. repair, damage I agree. nanohives and supply depot yes you remain cloaked. Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down - Example? A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - BOOLSHITE. Why not make the whole thing out of bells and tin cans. F stealth right? Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun - WHAT!? That is so .. just bad. lame. Are we breaking the sonic boom? Why? Defeats stealth. NO. Cloaks have an endurance time- Better be long as **. Cloaks have a cooldown time- ok. But skill based. Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)- You mean involuntarily deactivated? Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. -OK. Skill based tho. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - WHAT?! B00LSHITE. If contact is made ok. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. - SAME AS ABOVE B00LSHITE. IF they shoot you or melee you or contact you OK. Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. - OUT OF THE BOX B00LSHITE. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - If contact is made. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. - B00LSHITE. Contact. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)- As long as scout's meter is long and strong. Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. - Hmm... well.. B00LSHITE. Can climb ladders while cloaked- Of Course. Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. - Only if turned off via very easy and only on purpose. Nothing accidental due to **** wheel mechanics. Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. - um Ok. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. NOPE. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. NOPE. With regards to RE- what is the difference? Usually a scout is across the map doing something else when he detonates. The first shot, melee, or knife charge/slahs will pop a cloak. Not raising a weapon. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.- NOPE. Why hamstring it? Sandbox it.You even contradict yourself in the next two suggestions Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) - Sure why not? Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. - Ok. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) - GET BETTER EXAMPLES. This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. You should wait for that then cause this list is pfffrghrgtt.. a heavy full diaper. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11783	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:06:00 - [54] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Then why have cloaks in the first place if they're just cumbersome and useless? I do not agree with this direction. I despise the mere idea that a scout without cloak is utterly effing useless, might as well replace him with a gal logi who will outrun, out tank, outstelath, outscan, and out cloak the scout. I know there are some good scout players out there able to weave and dance on urban fields right now but the class is so heavily gimped and role stomped on and that giving them cloak bonuses is really not going to fix it because soon as it wears what then? Scout will likely be gimped worse with the cloak module installed, they lose out on the equipment slot so no more covert insertions, no more sabotage, no more scanning. While the gal logi presses button does 360 and still spots you through the cloak. That alone already has pre nerfed the cloak entirely. Most of this is to make it so that it won't be overly abused by more powerful suits such as commandos, assaults, and logistics as well as rules to apply to vehicles. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2649	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:12:00 - [55] - Quote I agree that a scout should be able to do it's job with or without a cloak however most considerations of this cloaking is going directly towards other suits and not the scout. It is clearly being balanced/discussed for other frames and not the scout. Do something about other frames equipping the cloak instead of trying to make it a one cloak fits all. Give scouts something that's their own instead of the ****** place they have now. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 175	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:14:00 - [56] - Quote The cloaking drawback that I don't understand is not being able to activate an RE while cloaked. If cloaking is equipment, then wouldn't I have to switch to RE before I can activate one anyways? If I am able to have my RE swatchwatch out while cloaked, yet cannot lay an RE while cloaked, what is the harm in being able to activate the one I laid down 2 min ago after taking an objective if I am trying to get by a Red tank with my skin in tact to get to the next objective, only to see what I had just hacked blinking? I totally get not being able to lay an RE while cloaked, but can't for the life of me understand how it would be that big a deal to activate one. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11784	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:17:00 - [57] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I agree that a scout should be able to do it's job with or without a cloak however most considerations of this cloaking is going directly towards other suits and not the scout. It is clearly being balanced/discussed for other frames and not the scout. Do something about other frames equipping the cloak instead of trying to make it a one cloak fits all. Give scouts something that's their own instead of the ****** place they have now. Cept this is supposed to be a sandbox game. By doing a full restriction to scouts only is a step in the wrong direction as it would move the game closer to that of class based shooters (we're classless still) While true the heavies do have the only means of equipping heavy weapons we do know that there been previous instances of mediums having heavies, and its not the only platform with heavy weapons (drones have up to 4 heavies and it was suggested drones could be hijacked to kill its brethren) The generic tech 1 items have to be usable by the many but at a cost. The suggestions in this thread are part of that cost. The tech 2 cloak if ever brought in would do away with more of these restrictions and then you can slap that on an equally nich'ed tech 2 suit. However that is another fight overall. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2650	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:24:00 - [58] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I agree that a scout should be able to do it's job with or without a cloak however most considerations of this cloaking is going directly towards other suits and not the scout. It is clearly being balanced/discussed for other frames and not the scout. Do something about other frames equipping the cloak instead of trying to make it a one cloak fits all. Give scouts something that's their own instead of the ****** place they have now. Cept this is supposed to be a sandbox game. By doing a full restriction to scouts only is a step in the wrong direction as it would move the game closer to that of class based shooters (we're classless still) While true the heavies do have the only means of equipping heavy weapons we do know that there been previous instances of mediums having heavies, and its not the only platform with heavy weapons (drones have up to 4 heavies and it was suggested drones could be hijacked to kill its brethren) The generic tech 1 items have to be usable by the many but at a cost. The suggestions in this thread are part of that cost. The tech 2 cloak if ever brought in would do away with more of these restrictions and then you can slap that on an equally nich'ed tech 2 suit. However that is another fight overall. Now you're talking about stuff that doesn't exist and most likely wont exist for the years to come. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 607	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:24:00 - [59] - Quote Thank the Lord big name Scouts whose names carry weight showed up and laid it out plainly. @IWS - do they also not understand and shouldnt comment? - That was rhetorical Hope that is clear enough for you. In your blind spot
Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 272	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:49:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. Why have the cloak reduce their sig size, ?. Assuming no changes to scanners, no need to have cloaks change a profile size as scout can hide even from proto scanner. . __ `/.)\ Nade \| Scan Attempt Prevented \| 34 mill SP \__/ 514 \| NFP Prime League Winner\| Longest Kill 588 Mtr`

Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1121	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:52:00 - [61] - Quote Heavenly Daughter wrote: Assuming no changes to scanners, no need to have cloaks change a profile size as scout can hide even from proto scanner. That's still up in the air at the moment. SiSi indicates we are going to lose our scan profile bonus (except for the Gallente scout) and there is no news on whether or not our base scan profile is being reduced to compensate. Not to mention scouts are going to have to severely gimp their fits to avoid a proto scanner used by a gal logi with their new bonus. !
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2653	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:54:00 - [62] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: Assuming no changes to scanners, no need to have cloaks change a profile size as scout can hide even from proto scanner. That's still up in the air at the moment. SiSi indicates we are going to lose our scan profile bonus (except for the Gallente scout) and there is no news on whether or not our base scan profile is being reduced to compensate. Not to mention scouts are going to have to severely gimp their fits to avoid a proto scanner used by a gal logi with their new bonus. and if no changes to scan profile/scanners a minmatar scout will NEVER beat a gal logi. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11788	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:09:00 - [63] - Quote mollerz wrote: Usage - BOOLSHITE. mostly. repair, damage I agree. nanohives and supply depot yes you remain cloaked. Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down - Example? - BOOLSHITE. Why not make the whole thing out of bells and tin cans. F stealth right? - WHAT!? That is so .. just bad. lame. Are we breaking the sonic boom? Why? Defeats stealth. NO. - Better be long as . - ok. But skill based. - you mean involuntarily deactivated? -OK. Skill based tho. - WHAT?! B00LSHITE. If contact is made ok. - SAME AS ABOVE B00LSHITE. IF they shoot you or melee you or contact you OK. OUT OF THE BOX B00LSHITE. If contact is made. - B00LSHITE. Contact. As long as scout's meter is long and strong. - Hmm... well.. B00LSHITE. - Of Course. - Only if turned off via very easy and only on purpose. Nothing accidental due to ** wheel mechanics. - um Ok. Weapons NOPE. NOPE. With regards to RE- what is the difference? Usually a scout is across the map doing something else when he detonates. The first shot, melee, or knife charge/slahs will pop a cloak. Not raising a weapon. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.- NOPE. Why hamstring it? Sandbox it.You even contradict yourself in the next two suggestions - Sure why not? Ok.[/b] - GET BETTER EXAMPLES. [/list] This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. You should wait for that then cause this list is pfffrghrgtt.. a heavy full diaper. Re: Cloak while speed healing : This was done to prevent stealthers from tanking while remaining invisible. Mostly for vehicles though and heavier infantry from just getting repped tool back up while being difficult to hit. Re: Active Modules : once again mostly vehicles, this however does apply to infantry in case a second module like the cloak is added like some sort of berserker or hulk mode. Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g Re: Noise Range : Shotgun noise range is pretty low actually; and just because you're invisible does not make you heard, ethereal, or unobservable of other physics involved such as the foot pad noise you're going to make while landing after a jump or the noise you make climbing a ladder. Re: Endurance Time : Agreeably it can be long as needed to cover majority of situations, in my opinion you should be able to go from letter to letter fully cloaked and have some in reserve still if one runs the way there (but may come short if user sprinted instead) Re: Cooldown and Disruption Timer : Cooldown is when the player ended the cloak himself or cloak runs out on its own. Disruption + cooldown is when the player's cloak is broken by outside forces such as nearby power sources shorting it out, or weapons fire. Thus this becomes a cloak operator concern. I can see skills playing into how long disruption time is (like 10% reduction per cloak level) Cooldown is a short breather similar to that of a stamina and one shouldn't have to wait too long to reactivate if the cooldown was player purposed, disruptions are however much longer and should last as long as an engagement window normally for scouts. Re: Decloak range to power sources. It may be possible to change the distances for each, the idea is to prevent camping, and using these objects as means of crosshair camo. As for infantry contact range is immensely short in this game and most of the time neither party can reliably hit each other at that range. Re: Vehicle call down, someone already pointed it would be abused to hell by dedicated pilots to call down vehicles safely without getting shot. Re: Deactivation on purpose; wheel needs fixing, especially considering you can still order squads while cloaked >< Re: Other stuff usage; You only have two hands and you're holding down the cloak button basically while running around. Re: This was inferring to cloaks itself going up in metas it should never boil down to one getting a prototype level cloack and be able to approach a hostile player in his field of view and pop him in the head with a shotgun. Re: Better Examples ; Open ears. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11788	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:10:00 - [64] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I agree that a scout should be able to do it's job with or without a cloak however most considerations of this cloaking is going directly towards other suits and not the scout. It is clearly being balanced/discussed for other frames and not the scout. Do something about other frames equipping the cloak instead of trying to make it a one cloak fits all. Give scouts something that's their own instead of the ****** place they have now. Cept this is supposed to be a sandbox game. By doing a full restriction to scouts only is a step in the wrong direction as it would move the game closer to that of class based shooters (we're classless still) While true the heavies do have the only means of equipping heavy weapons we do know that there been previous instances of mediums having heavies, and its not the only platform with heavy weapons (drones have up to 4 heavies and it was suggested drones could be hijacked to kill its brethren) The generic tech 1 items have to be usable by the many but at a cost. The suggestions in this thread are part of that cost. The tech 2 cloak if ever brought in would do away with more of these restrictions and then you can slap that on an equally nich'ed tech 2 suit. However that is another fight overall. Now you're talking about stuff that doesn't exist and most likely wont exist for the years to come. Have to start somewhere. It is much easier to give than to take away. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Darius Ashran Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 58	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:23:00 - [65] - Quote From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1750	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:24:00 - [66] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. Must be difficult to fit. Is CPU Intensive Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun Cloaks have an endurance time Cloaks have a cooldown time Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts) Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina) Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. Can climb ladders while cloaked Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged. Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. While I disagree with some things I agree with your overall proposal. What makes me sad is that this is what a cpm caliber person brings to the community. Frankly, not a single person that i have see running has this ability. I still think most of your ideas are terrible but i would vote for you over the lot we have running in a heart beat. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:31:00 - [67] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument B00LSHITE I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. My scout expert fixes in bold. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. - Ok fine. Must be difficult to fit. - OK. Is CPU Intensive - Why not, what isn't for a scout. Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) - Cool. Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots - OK fine. Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) - BOOLSHITE. mostly. repair, damage I agree. nanohives and supply depot yes you remain cloaked. Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down - Example? A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - BOOLSHITE. Why not make the whole thing out of bells and tin cans. F stealth right? Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun - WHAT!? That is so .. just bad. lame. Are we breaking the sonic boom? Why? Defeats stealth. NO. Cloaks have an endurance time- Better be long as **. Cloaks have a cooldown time- ok. But skill based. Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)- You mean involuntarily deactivated? Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. -OK. Skill based tho. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - WHAT?! B00LSHITE. If contact is made ok. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. - SAME AS ABOVE B00LSHITE. IF they shoot you or melee you or contact you OK. Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. - OUT OF THE BOX B00LSHITE. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - If contact is made. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. - B00LSHITE. Contact. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)- As long as scout's meter is long and strong. Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. - Hmm... well.. B00LSHITE. Can climb ladders while cloaked- Of Course. Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. - Only if turned off via very easy and only on purpose. Nothing accidental due to **** wheel mechanics. Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. - um Ok. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. NOPE. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. NOPE. With regards to RE- what is the difference? Usually a scout is across the map doing something else when he detonates. The first shot, melee, or knife charge/slahs will pop a cloak. Not raising a weapon. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.- NOPE. Why hamstring it? Sandbox it.You even contradict yourself in the next two suggestions Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) - Sure why not? Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. - Ok. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) - GET BETTER EXAMPLES. This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. You should wait for that then cause this list is pfffrghrgtt.. a heavy full diaper. I just quoted it because a single like wasn't enough
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 782	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:45:00 - [68] - Quote I think if you are cloaked you should lose some other functionality based on the fact that it is a super sci-fi electric field-generating gizmo. For example the cloak works both ways (no one can see in, you can't see players/vehicles out) or you lose your radar. Or it slowly drains your shields. Something like that. Using the cloak should add a downside to the player while using it. Munch Munch for CPM 1 Campaign Headquarters
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:12:00 - [69] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Quote: --SNIP -- Re: Cloak while speed healing : This was done to prevent stealthers from tanking while remaining invisible. Mostly for vehicles though and heavier infantry from just getting repped tool back up while being difficult to hit. Why wasn't this stated in the first place Re: Active Modules : once again mostly vehicles, this however does apply to infantry in case a second module like the cloak is added like some sort of berserker or hulk mode. Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g I don't think you understood the video, please watch or re-watch 2:10 - 2:50. Counter-play is about giving theOPPONENT options to counter a tactic or strategy(i.e. scanners, safety in numbers) NOT gimping to the brink of uselessness. Re: Noise Range : Shotgun noise range is pretty low actually; and just because you're invisible does not make you heard, ethereal, or unobservable of other physics involved such as the foot pad noise you're going to make while landing after a jump or the noise you make climbing a ladder. Conversely, cloaking should you magically make you louder? Re: Cooldown and Disruption Timer : Cooldown is when the player ended the cloak himself or cloak runs out on its own. Disruption + cooldown is when the player's cloak is broken by outside forces such as nearby power sources shorting it out, or weapons fire. Thus this becomes a cloak operator concern. I can see skills playing into how long disruption time is (like 10% reduction per cloak level) Cooldown is a short breather similar to that of a stamina and one shouldn't have to wait too long to reactivate if the cooldown was player purposed, disruptions are however much longer and should last as long as an engagement window normally for scouts. 1. We don't know how exactly the cooldown mechanic works, because if it works like vehicles modules were cooldown cooldown is independant of active duration. Then no, that's punishing the cloak operator twice. 2. If it's like heat buildup system used on hybrid weapons then it's understandable Re: Decloak range to power sources. It may be possible to change the distances for each, the idea is to prevent camping, and using these objects as means of crosshair camo. As for infantry contact range is immensely short in this game and most of the time neither party can reliably hit each other at that range. Re: Vehicle call down, someone already pointed it would be abused to hell by dedicated pilots to call down vehicles safely without getting shot. How is this any different from standing hidden in cover then sprinting into the vehicle as soon as it lands? Re: Deactivation on purpose; wheel needs fixing, especially considering you can still order squads while cloaked >< Re: Other stuff usage; You only have two hands and you're holding down the cloak button basically while running around. There are these things with two positions, usu. on/off called switches. Re: This was inferring to cloaks itself going up in metas it should never boil down to one getting a prototype level cloack and be able to approach a hostile player in his field of view and pop him in the head with a shotgun. I believe that is the point of shimmer Re: Better Examples ; Open ears.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11795	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:48:00 - [70] - Quote Ahsa I understood the video to the point that active scanners don't fit into the concept at all and that cloaks can easily be just as bad. Non cloakers could feel more than entirely helpless to deal with a cloaker if it comes in too powerfully. The idea is to make both players have fun with the mechanic. Not make either side miserable with it. Cloaks have tragically always feel into making it very unfun for every non cloaker out there. Optical Cloaks also don't make you magically quieter. I also said nothing about volume of the noise I said hearing distance is same of that of shotguns which isn't that far of a range. How is it different from sprinting from cover? Ask the guys who get their tanks stolen all the time in FW to lead to a kick spree. They make push buttons too. We dont have any video examples of the shimmer at work and we don't need prototype level + skills + mods = no shimmer. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 829	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:01:00 - [71] - Quote +1 EXCEPT...... I don't agree with the forced deactivation due to hostile proximity. I dont run scouts at all so this is not a bias opinion...... The main benefit for a cloaked merc should be to kill with stealth. They shouldnt be able to fire while cloaked but they should be able to melee. You should flash visibility when using certain actions like meleeing a player. I think it should deactivate at the end of a charged N.K. strike, but only flash being visible is using uncharged strikes. The implications that you suggest for the cloak seems to defeat the purpose of one in my eyes. I agree with most everything just not the statement as mentioned above. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 829	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:10:00 - [72] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g . Cant argue with extra credits bro ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 146	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:55:00 - [73] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. Must be difficult to fit. Is CPU Intensive Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun Cloaks have an endurance time Cloaks have a cooldown time Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts) Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina) Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. Can climb ladders while cloaked Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged. Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. wow reactive armor so op
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 146	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:17:00 - [74] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: I think this (what the 6th cloaking thread?) thread should be considered garbage. What we have here is a CPM bullet pointing a self chosen list that completely disregards scout input. That's the most medium oriented list of demands I ever saw. More than half of those bullet points are pure trash meant to nerf the cloak before it even comes out. pathetic. cloaking has been in eve for 8 years, its the most complained about feature to this day that has yet to be nerfed, namely on the grounds a guy sitting middle of nowhere can never be found ever even if he afks for months on end while cloaked. Only one nerf was ever thrown on it and it only affected non covert ships the most. Knowing that track record its best to bring it in prenerfed. Than pre-lame. Considering the scout's bonus and role has to deal with the cloak is should NOT come prenerfed. You then bring this already weak role into a position where it's even weaker because it's bonus deals with a piece of a equipment that would be near useless for anything but walking around when nobody is around. Im trying to get rid of cloaking bonuses on scouts to be honest, Scouts should be viable without them. ccp ban Iron Wolf Saber for posting stupid ****.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:20:00 - [75] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: ccp ban Iron Wolf Saber for posting stupid ****. No, this is a good thing (though I'm not liking his cloak attributes). He doesn't mean not having a fitting bonus (that is needed along with reductions to other E-War-ish equipment) but all or multiple scouts having racial scout bonuses to cloaks is bad because it shoehorns them into using the cloak which gravely limits the versatility of the scouts. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:47:00 - [76] - Quote Darius Ashran wrote: From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530 That's sounds nice and deadly, just thinking out loud what if the cloak used ur shield to power itself. Maybe a set % so as not to play favorites with arm/shield based suits, or make it a set number of hp/sec and give people a reason to shield tank and fit regulators instead of armor. Failing that make stamina into my capacitor. :) Less QQ more PewPew
Lorhak Gannarsein 1163	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:48:00 - [77] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Faquira Bleuetta wrote: ccp ban Iron Wolf Saber for posting stupid ****. No, this is a good thing (though I'm not liking his cloak attributes). He doesn't mean not having a fitting bonus (that is needed along with reductions to other E-War-ish equipment) but all or multiple scouts having racial scout bonuses to cloaks is bad because it shoehorns them into using the cloak which gravely limits the versatility of the scouts. And Logistics bonus would need changing too, because otherwise they're probably going to be more capable of using cloaks than scouts, thanks to the equipment fitting reduction, and their inherently higher base fitting stats, as well as surplus slots that can be used for fitting mods. And as far as the external repping one is concerned, hives would HAVE to break cloak, because otherwise I'll just stack a room with repping hives, switch to bricked GalAssault (with basic plates, of course) and alpha you from invisibility with charged scrambler pulses. Then when I take damage, run around the corner, cloak and come back to rep. And repeat. PRO tanker and proud. Number of PRO-turret HAVs killed w/ my permahardened MLT Blaster Gunny - 2 (so far xD)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11800	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:50:00 - [78] - Quote Kuroiokami Tsukinaku wrote: Iron Wolf Saber How about this then? [* wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external influences (guns, hives, and repper tools currently) Cannot activate while other modules are active or cooling down. This should cover for both vehicles and infantry (should infantry get something similar in nature to cloaks in the future) Soooo if I'm a scout.. I cloak..and run over a hive I lose cloak? Or newbie greifing logibro trys to rep me and I lose cloak? Cannot activate* Also I think friendlies should not be able to lock you with repair tools becuase that be an ahole thing to do (considering the animation for repair will likely continue to play while you're invisible thus already giving your position away, way to go awoxer!) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:55:00 - [79] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: And Logistics bonus would need changing too, because otherwise they're probably going to be more capable of using cloaks than scouts, thanks to the equipment fitting reduction, and their inherently higher base fitting stats, as well as surplus slots that can be used for fitting mods. It can work with the logistics bonus. Upping the scout bonus to reducing fitting costs at lvl5 by 75% and increasing cloak fitting costs to account for the increased bonus should limit their capability to use cloaks. Ideally though, I would divide equipment into three categories Logistical equipment - Nanos, uplinks, repair tools, injectors, and scanners Demolition equipment - REs and PMs Electronic Warfare equipment - Cloaks Then I would give logis a 50% fitting reduction to logistical equipment and scouts a 50% fitting reduction to e-war equipment (some new demolition class could get a demolition fitting bonus down the road). This would separate the logi's bonus from the scout's area of expertise and gives scout's a bonus to more than just Cloaks as more E-War stuff arrives (jammers for example). Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:46:00 - [80] - Quote Valve did cloaks well. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11811	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:04:00 - [81] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: Valve did cloaks well. That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby also there are plenty of anti cloak tools available and two classes that are opted to take on the spy however it is one of those classes that has been most lauded for balance and constant need for changes. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 42	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:34:00 - [82] - Quote Perhaps not letting a cloaker sprint would be enough of a handicap? Shimmer effect not withstanding, Scouts don't need to turn invisible to get places we don't want them to, and being able to hide in place has lots of usefulness. I don't like the idea of cloaks in general, nor do I like the idea of the Gal Logi being the ScannerBro when the Gal Scout has that (for now) patented. As long as the cloak doesn't affect Profile scouts will still have a job.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6365	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:43:00 - [83] - Quote Quote: Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 149	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:17:00 - [84] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby are u ******* kidding me ? just stop arguing and contradict urself
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11814	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:38:00 - [85] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby are u ******* kidding me ? just stop arguing and contradict urself TF2 is a high reflex shooter aka twitch shooting. The style implemented requires extremely fast reflexes to counter and deal with which is nearly a world apart form dust 514's lightly more tactical pace. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 237	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:48:00 - [86] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: dust 514's lightly more tactical pace. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦... :D
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 64	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:50:00 - [87] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Quote: Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed. I agree, the decloaking should occur when the cloaked user takes any action, such switching to a weapon or starts a hack. It should not be forced shutdown based on proximity, to other players or structures. (Although I DO think it should decloak if you bump into another enemy or player)
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 150	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:54:00 - [88] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Faquira Bleuetta wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby are u ******* kidding me ? just stop arguing and contradict urself TF2 is a high reflex shooter aka twitch shooting. The style implemented requires extremely fast reflexes to counter and deal with which is nearly a world apart form dust 514's lightly more tactical pace. soon dust will be a twitch shooting lool look at the new assault rof bonus .
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 309	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:57:00 - [89] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Faquira Bleuetta wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby are u ******* kidding me ? just stop arguing and contradict urself TF2 is a high reflex shooter aka twitch shooting. The style implemented requires extremely fast reflexes to counter and deal with which is nearly a world apart form dust 514's lightly more tactical pace. soon dust will be a twitch shooting lool look at the new assault rof bonus . scouts will be on a good level then I use a tablet so beware of typos
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11818	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:07:00 - [90] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Quote: Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed. We can keep the range of decloaks very small though, its not supposed to be a tool to take on an entire squad in one go. Rather to be more like a raptor, picking off targets one at a time. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4655	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:22:00 - [91] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) [/list] This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. Oh please don't have the Amarr Scout bonus be to base hp. These are scouts, HP is their weakness. To make a suit more specialized, you focus on the strengths, not the weaknesses. Also I disagree that the cloaks should reduce the user's profile signature. The relationship between profile signature, scan precision, and active scanner precision should be a very close one carefully based around the base values and impact of fitting dampener modules. It should be completely separated from cloaking. If you are cloaked, you should still be vulnerable to scans. Of course, being scanned would only place you on the radar. It would not break your cloak nor would it display your chevron. Amarr Victor! CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11819	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:24:00 - [92] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) [/list] This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. Oh please don't have the Amarr Scout bonus be to base hp. These are scouts, HP is their weakness. To make a suit more specialized, you focus on the strengths, not the weaknesses. Also I disagree that the cloaks should reduce the user's profile signature. The relationship between profile signature, scan precision, and active scanner precision should be a very close one carefully based around the base values and impact of fitting dampener modules. It should be completely separated from cloaking. If you are cloaked, you should still be vulnerable to scans. Of course, being scanned would only place you on the radar. It would not break your cloak nor would it display your chevron. Well been talking with the scouts from the registrar there was a suggestion to give the scouts (thus light suit skill) a bonus to electronics and biotics function and fitting instead, this works out because cloaks being electronics more likely would be classed to benefit while logistics class wont be. Right now been prodding them on what the other unique to race bonus should be. Amarr overall are still the highest ehp race in the game and should remain so. There is a worlds of a difference between a scout and assault anyways in terms of HP values so extra 20-30- even 40 hp is not that much in the eyes of those killing scouts from day to day, but it is a razor thin advantage for a scout none the less. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 138	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:25:00 - [93] - Quote Galthur wrote: I would edit some things: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) to Cannot activate within 5 seconds of taking damage or while regenerating shields Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. to Cloaks are deactivated upon beginning to hack and alert system shows player on map upon this for enemies within 15 meters Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. to Players within 2 meters friendly or foe can clearly see cloaked user (similar to shadowfall in how it would look) Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. to Cannot use or place equipment besides RE's which one can detonate but not place until uncloaked No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. adjusted so You can have your gun out but firing will activate a 4 second delay once over the users weapon can start firing (with slight recharge delay of 8 sec), deactivating using your equipment will do as said but without penalty to recharging and slightly faster time before you can fire I like those ideas. Although I would feel more comfortable if players friendly or foe could be able to clearly see cloaked users within 4 meters. I think cloaked players should be able to have there gun equipped (in there hands) but would not be able to fire until they decloaked. Making the 'fire weapon' button act as an alternate decloak button (while cloaked) would improve the ergonomics of the controls. The result would allow snipers to be able to decloak without having to swap between equipment and weapons and deal with sniper scope sway unnecessarily (they would have to decloak then swap weapons and re-use there sniper scope and wait for the scope to stabilize, wasting precious time they need to kill enemies that are sprinting between bits of cover, if players can not decloak by pressing the fire weapon button and then fire there weapon at the enemy but pressing the same button again).
The Black Art Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 321	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:27:00 - [94] - Quote I think being able to fire while cloaked would be ok if the cooldown was longer than if you decloaked first then fired, longer by a decent margin. The only problem with this is that if the cooldown resets on death, shotgun scouts basically get a free kill every time they spawn.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11820	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:29:00 - [95] - Quote The Black Art wrote: I think being able to fire while cloaked would be ok if the cooldown was longer than if you decloaked first then fired, longer by a decent margin. The only problem with this is that if the cooldown resets on death, shotgun scouts basically get a free kill every time they spawn. most shotty scouts can't run that mentality its cost inefficent and knowing cloaks from eve they're going to be expensive and would likely double the price of any suit they're attached to. This has more to do with the amount of tech going into the module to make them though eve side. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
The Black Art Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 321	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:38:00 - [96] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Black Art wrote: I think being able to fire while cloaked would be ok if the cooldown was longer than if you decloaked first then fired, longer by a decent margin. The only problem with this is that if the cooldown resets on death, shotgun scouts basically get a free kill every time they spawn. most shotty scouts can't run that mentality its cost inefficent and knowing cloaks from eve they're going to be expensive and would likely double the price of any suit they're attached to. This has more to do with the amount of tech going into the module to make them though eve side. Maybe in pubs, but in PC, getting a free kill on a high priority target is well worth the suit price.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11827	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:46:00 - [97] - Quote The Black Art wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Black Art wrote: I think being able to fire while cloaked would be ok if the cooldown was longer than if you decloaked first then fired, longer by a decent margin. The only problem with this is that if the cooldown resets on death, shotgun scouts basically get a free kill every time they spawn. most shotty scouts can't run that mentality its cost inefficent and knowing cloaks from eve they're going to be expensive and would likely double the price of any suit they're attached to. This has more to do with the amount of tech going into the module to make them though eve side. Maybe in pubs, but in PC, getting a free kill on a high priority target is well worth the suit price. I am pretty sure cost efficiency still is a factor in PC, just right now we have no means to make it impactful without the secondary market to make rarer gear readily supplyable. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
pseudosnipre 494	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:06:00 - [98] - Quote Hi, After reading your list I have just one question: From your point of view as a CPM member, in which situations do you see the cloak (with your prescribed characteristics) being useful? Thank you. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11832	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:14:00 - [99] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Hi, After reading your list I have just one question: From your point of view as a CPM member, in which situations do you see the cloak (with your prescribed characteristics) being useful? Thank you. Getting from C to D safely. Getting into a very noisy equipment nest and getting the initial first strike in to wipe out most of the equipment causing a big enough distraction so that your squad a can get the drop on them while they deal with the sacrificial scout. Raptoring a squad to death. Flanking a sniper. Getting up a ladder. Crossing a front line without notice to go hack things behind the soldiers and taking out their uplinks. Camping a HAV pilot doing the recall and call down. Many more clandestine operations that involves getting the cloaker to places where nobody is looking, or there is only or two guys not paying attention there. Many people seemed to be confused about the shotgun range sound. 1 the noise level is not that high and is about the same as everything else. 2. I was inferring to the range of hearing the sound, if you're outside of shotgun range you won't hear it. This does not stop the cloaker from decloaking and getting into range while you're looking away. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2181	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:27:00 - [100] - Quote So according to the list everyone can use a cloak Except its not useful in anyway apart from getting to where you need to go but it can be auto turned off because you happen to get close to something You could sneak about but it turns off by the time you get to the objective so then everyone sees you and shoots you that is if by the time it uncloaks a 360scan monkey hasnt already picked you up and the decloak sound doesnt sound like a alarm alerting everyone to your presence anyways You cant hack anything anyways without it flashing or it popping up on top of your screen saying 'cru is being hacked' anyways Cloaks also have a timer which may run out before you get to where you are going so you get spotted According to this list i see the cloak being ******* useless Intelligence is OP

Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1168	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:35:00 - [101] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well been talking with the scouts from the registrar there was a suggestion to give the scouts (thus light suit skill) a bonus to electronics and biotics function and fitting instead, this works out because cloaks being electronics more likely would be classed to benefit while logistics class wont be. Right now been prodding them on what the other unique to race bonus should be. Amarr overall are still the highest ehp race in the game and should remain so. There is a worlds of a difference between a scout and assault anyways in terms of HP values so extra 20-30- even 40 hp is not that much in the eyes of those killing scouts from day to day, but it is a razor thin advantage for a scout none the less. So there is a chance cloaking would get tagged as an electronic rather than an equipment? That would work out well. Here's my suggestion for the unique race bonuses. As part of that, I think the amarr should get bonuses to max stamina and stamina regen. However, while that is a good general bonus, it doesn't seem like enough so I had an idea for another bonus though I'm not quite sure it fits with the lore of which race is good with what. What about giving the Amarr scout a bonus to webifiers (when they get here)? It fits with the hunter theme as a way to cripple your prey as you chase them down. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6372	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:38:00 - [102] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Quote: Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed. We can keep the range of decloaks very small though, its not supposed to be a tool to take on an entire squad in one go. Rather to be more like a raptor, picking off targets one at a time. With decloaking being as easy as a weapon swap it would be easy for a skilled player to time their rushing, deactivation on purpose, weapon draw and attack leading to a kill then with drawl to bring the cloak back up in a cqc environment. Bolder scouts can easily toss the RE and perform the same. Remember you only get nailed with the disrupted cloak penalty if the cloak was turned off by not of your hands. So getitng shot while decloaked then running off to somewhere safe to cloak up. The range I had suggested was 2 meters, the same as the height of one mercenary. I think 1.5 meters should be the minimum distance if you want a compromise. But what about bumping into other cloaked suits? In Eve Online, two cloaked ships don't decloak each other due to [insert techno babble from lore] if they are close to each other. Would you allow the same in Dust? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6372	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:40:00 - [103] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: [quote=Iron Wolf Saber]Well been talking with the scouts from the registrar there was a suggestion to give the scouts (thus light suit skill) a bonus to electronics and biotics function and fitting instead, this works out because cloaks being electronics more likely would be classed to benefit while logistics class wont be. The problem with NOT making it an equipment item can be summed up with one simple point. Invisible heavies with HMGs and FGs. Think about that for a sec. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1168	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:48:00 - [104] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The problem with NOT making it an equipment item can be summed up with one simple point. Invisible heavies with HMGs and FGs. Think about that for a sec. I don't think he means moving it to a module slot, just how it is tagged in the item's data. As in the cloak is still fitted to the equipment slot, but it has an electronic attribute and not an equipment attribute so it wouldn't count for the logi's bonus but would count for the suggested scout bonus of biotics/electronics. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Oswald Rehnquist 1060	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:17:00 - [105] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: . I agree with the scout roles, in fact I believe we and many others had this same division way back in close beta as well. Gallente Scout Gal scout is easy enough with current content and in fact its current proposed SiSi racials are actually fine as is. Sig reduction + low slots makes them better at cloaks than any other scout, and probably a little beefer due to their ability to forgo one extra dampener for an armor mod to help in cqc. Radius increase also helps with hunting down medium frames, which will be the most common target. Gal- 10% scan radius, 5% to pro sig reduction Minmatar Scout The min scout should be the biotic hacking scout. I think freeing them of the knife would be a good thing (being tied to one weapon sucks) and a melee that is actually worth something, I'm talking about setting the innate melee to 200 and a 10% innate hacking bonus on the suit. They can shoot from afar with the combat rifle, knock em out with an elbow, and hacking when appropriate. They could also combo melee and knife to get faster results. Min- 5% to hacking and melee damage (make sure to read the increase in base stats to melee and hacking) Caldari Scout The cal scout in my mind and even reflected in the description was the anti scout, and I say this because they are the premier high slot scout, which means they can stack the most precision. If the jammer equipment item was based on the precision stat like the cloak is based on the profile sig stat then the cal scout could get a bonus to precision. Thus the two main roles would be counter insurgency and jamming opposition. Lore behind using precision is due to the fact that your suit needs to be able to electronically locate the suit before you are able to infect it with a "virus", if you can't pick it up on your passives, you can't actually target the suit. Also the ewar resistance stat should be precision as well, similar to how computer viruses are rendered mute when your computer can recognize and isolate them, so should precision be understood in the same way. Cal- 10% to precision, 5% to scan radius Amarr Scout I'm pretty much flowing with the grain on this one but 10% to stamina pool and regeneration, combine this with +1 extra equipment slot over the other scouts makes them good equipment runners, (which is what I function as in competitive matches). As for an E-war that can work with stamina, considering that they are specialized in energy vampire and tracking (aiming) disruption. You could theoretically create an equipment item that drains your own stamina (can be channeled as long as you have stamina) which has some aoe effect on the target, for dropsuits energy could be weapon function, movement, shields, anything. Am- 10% to stamina and stamina regeneration Below 28 dB
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11840	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:32:00 - [106] - Quote 1.5 meters sounds like a good compromise. As for the cloaks its only covert cloaks, it was done for bomber squadrons. As for dust 514, I am hesitant to see what a squad of cloakers would do that is a big guess work into the void on figuring out what a cloaked squad can accomplish. However so is the decloak near friendlies being on a might list instead of the must list. Friendlies can be jack hats at times and ruin what you are trying do so that's why its in the might category. Its something that can go either way. However with hostiles its more understandable to get decloaked by a hostile cloaker. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 297	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:56:00 - [107] - Quote I'm on board with most of the suggestions. I'm a little iffy on all of the proximity deactivation rules--certainly the friendly ones, but even the enemy rules. Also, if you can't hack while cloaked then proximity to hackable objects shouldn't be an issue. I'm worried that might limit the ability to move through certain areas. With respect to Scouts and Scout bonuses, I also want to re-emphasize the need for a Scout suit with two equipment slots in order to fit a cloak and another piece of equipment. Being able to cloak, infiltrate, and drop an uplink could turn the course of some engagements and should be a legitimate tactic. Same with scanning behind enemy lines for reconnaissance, or dropping REs to create a trap. (Of course, the Scout would have to de-cloak to do any of these things.) This would also be generally useful for players taking on the Scout role. I would prefer it if the extra equipment slot came at the expense of firepower, preferably in the removal of the sidearm slot; however, this would be unfair to offensive scouts without the addition of a light suit specifically for offense. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. From my perspective, the cloak should turn off any armor or shield regen, including the built-in shield recharge and any skill-based armor repair. People shouldn't be able to sit cloaked and invisible while their suit gets back to 100%. The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6373	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:00:00 - [108] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: I'm on board with most of the suggestions. I'm a little iffy on all of the proximity deactivation rules--certainly the friendly ones, but even the enemy rules. Also, if you can't hack while cloaked then proximity to hackable objects shouldn't be an issue. I'm worried that might limit the ability to move through certain areas. With respect to Scouts and Scout bonuses, I also want to re-emphasize the need for a Scout suit with two equipment slots in order to fit a cloak and another piece of equipment. Being able to cloak, infiltrate, and drop an uplink could turn the course of some engagements and should be a legitimate tactic. Same with scanning behind enemy lines for reconnaissance, or dropping REs to create a trap. (Of course, the Scout would have to de-cloak to do any of these things.) This would also be generally useful for players taking on the Scout role. I would prefer it if the extra equipment slot came at the expense of firepower, preferably in the removal of the sidearm slot; however, this would be unfair to offensive scouts without the addition of a light suit specifically for offense. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cannot activate while HP values are changing (neither positive or negative gains) Dang, this means that cloaking will be useless on suits with armor reppers. From my perspective, the cloak should turn off any armor or shield regen, including the built-in shield recharge and any skill-based armor repair. People shouldn't be able to sit cloaked and invisible while their suit gets back to 100%. Pretty much. In Eve Online, other active modules are prohibited from activating while the cloak is active. Ships can't even target while cloaked. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11843	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:02:00 - [109] - Quote Look guys I am able to negotiate if it means for the better of both cloaker and victim. Anyways updating the proximity range. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6373	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:04:00 - [110] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1.5 meters sounds like a good compromise. As for the cloaks its only covert cloaks, it was done for bomber squadrons. As for dust 514, I am hesitant to see what a squad of cloakers would do that is a big guess work into the void on figuring out what a cloaked squad can accomplish. However so is the decloak near friendlies being on a might list instead of the must list. Friendlies can be jack hats at times and ruin what you are trying do so that's why its in the might category. Its something that can go either way. However with hostiles its more understandable to get decloaked by a hostile cloaker. I would say let friendlies be close together without decloaking each other. Enemies on the other hand... you'll have to decloak anyways to attack so I don't mind as long as the decloak distance is not too much. This is why I feel 1.5 meters is reasonable without limiting the scout's ability to traverse through areas. However, being near vehicles should be excluded because god forbid that one LAV or HAV comes out of nowhere as you turn a corner and suddenly your cloak is disrupted. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6373	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:11:00 - [111] - Quote Quote: Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina) I don't think sprinting should drain the cloak faster. It's enough that we have an active timer on them. As for the active timer, I would suggest maybe lasting between 45-60 seconds which is about the amount of time it takes for a scout to sprint from the default spawn area in the redline to one of the objectives with at least a 30-second cooldown (15 seconds for Covert Ops cloaks - which should be for prototype scouts only) Here is a list of my own suggestions: Quote: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 250 PG: 60 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting. Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 60 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage with 25% reduction to cooldown timer Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( 3% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) NOTE: Must first train up to [Racial] Scout Level 5 before being able to train towards the Covert Ops scout. This is a modified version of what I submitted to CPM Heinrich not too long ago. I made some changes to the CPU/PG requirements and bonuses. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
The Black Art Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 322	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:18:00 - [112] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am pretty sure cost efficiency still is a factor in PC It's really not. People are told not to worry about ISK in PC, so you can play the best of your ability and go hard. You can't have people worrying about ISK in a competitive match. All corps I know of either pay people per PC, have some kind of salary, or reimburse specific people who are low on ISK.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 217	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:21:00 - [113] - Quote Any chance the cloak could be like the PLC but with PG that way I can fit a PLC and a cloak making the PLC semi-useful with the current TTK Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
pseudosnipre 496	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:28:00 - [114] - Quote Thank you for responding, responses provided in-line. Not trying to yell, just used caps for clarity. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Hi, After reading your list I have just one question: From your point of view as a CPM member, in which situations do you see the cloak (with your prescribed characteristics) being useful? Thank you. Getting from C to D safely. CLOAK NOT NECESSARY IN MAJORITY OF INSTANCES...WOULD PREFER AN ALWAYS USEFUL SPEED/STAMINA BUFF. Getting into a very noisy equipment nest and getting the initial first strike in to wipe out most of the equipment causing a big enough distraction so that your squad a can get the drop on them while they deal with the sacrificial scout. AGAIN, NOT NECESSARILY DIFFICULT...ESPECIALLY IF EQUIPMENT LAG HAS BEEN FIXED. Raptoring a squad to death. SURELY YOU JEST... Flanking a sniper. TUNNEL VISION = NOT NEEDED Getting up a ladder. OK, THIS IS TRUE... Crossing a front line without notice to go hack things behind the soldiers and taking out their uplinks. ALREADY ACHIEVED VIA WIDE FLANK AND/OR PATIENCE. CROSSING TOO CLOSE AND NO JUMP/SPRINT NEGATES USE OF INFILTRATION CLOAK IN TIGHT QUARTERS. ALSO, RED RETICLE. Camping a HAV pilot doing the recall and call down. SHADOWING A TANK IN CQC TO KILL HIM WHEN HE POPS OUT TO RECALL? LOL, MAYBE BUT NO WAY TO MAKE A LIVING Many more clandestine operations that involves getting the cloaker to places where nobody is looking, or there is only or two guys not paying attention there. NOT CURRENTLY A PROBLEM, EXCEPT FOR DROPSHIP ONLY LOCATIONS Many people seemed to be confused about the shotgun range sound. 1 the noise level is not that high and is about the same as everything else. 2. I was inferring to the range of hearing the sound, if you're outside of shotgun range you won't hear it. This does not stop the cloaker from decloaking and getting into range while you're looking away. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11848	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:39:00 - [115] - Quote C to D could be open space and point b which looks over it is full of hostiles and its a sniper ally. Getting into nests is still very hard to do with all guns pointed in your general direction with no flankable option. I surely do not jest, a good scout can raptor a squad to death currently this tool would help them a bit. Depends on the sniper first being the corner sniper where you cannot flank said sniper for his sniper alley is the same as the only ways to get to him. The second of which is the recon snipers the ones that don't hug their scopes all the time and only pick off targets of oppertunity. Red reticule hunting is needle in the haystack. You would know if you got hit with the worst of the render bug. Hunters are creatures who thrive on creatures of habbit, those that constantly call and recall their tanks or always call their tanks in one spot of the map are most prone to being victims. FW has taught many this. It can be easily a problem on the smaller maps, also the cloak would save travel time by not having to take the massively long route. Hence the better use as a mobility tool and not a weapon. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6380	Posted - 2014.01.10 21:53:00 - [116] - Quote I agree that the cloak will be an excellent mobility tool. The biggest issue we ninjas always have with big maps is the lack of cover. Any cover in those large maps are always few and far in between. This forces us to take extremely long routes that take up a chunk of our time to get to our destination. And if by any chance we get caught before uplinks can be set, we have to start all over and by then it is likely that the same route we took is no longer safe. This is most apparent in maps like line harvest, iron delta, and spine crescent or that somewhat-recent crater map. Cover is paramount to a scout. Without it, we are relegated to being literally on the sidelines for most of the match. That's no fun for us ninjas. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
mollerz Minja Scouts 1715	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:08:00 - [117] - Quote Maken Tosch does not speak for all scouts, and frankly, his concessions are ridiculous as they are entirely his own. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11863	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:58:00 - [118] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I agree that the cloak will be an excellent mobility tool. The biggest issue we ninjas always have with big maps is the lack of cover. Any cover in those large maps are always few and far in between. This forces us to take extremely long routes that take up a chunk of our time to get to our destination. And if by any chance we get caught before uplinks can be set, we have to start all over and by then it is likely that the same route we took is no longer safe. This is most apparent in maps like line harvest, iron delta, and spine crescent or that somewhat-recent crater map. Cover is paramount to a scout. Without it, we are relegated to being literally on the sidelines for most of the match. That's no fun for us ninjas. This is where one area cloaks will shine or should shine the best. In CQC is should be more for the ability to hide in a corner catch a breather plan the next step before going out to snatch another person out of the squad you're harassing. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
mollerz Minja Scouts 1717	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:34:00 - [119] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I agree that the cloak will be an excellent mobility tool. The biggest issue we ninjas always have with big maps is the lack of cover. Any cover in those large maps are always few and far in between. This forces us to take extremely long routes that take up a chunk of our time to get to our destination. And if by any chance we get caught before uplinks can be set, we have to start all over and by then it is likely that the same route we took is no longer safe. This is most apparent in maps like line harvest, iron delta, and spine crescent or that somewhat-recent crater map. Cover is paramount to a scout. Without it, we are relegated to being literally on the sidelines for most of the match. That's no fun for us ninjas. This is where one area cloaks will shine or should shine the best. In CQC is should be more for the ability to hide in a corner catch a breather plan the next step before going out to snatch another person out of the squad you're harassing. False. Maybe the way you think it is played, but for a minja that would be more death and no kills. Once you commit, you have to go all in. Squads communicate, and once their heavy goes down they all know it. Once they know you are there you have to keep going. You are not going to escape, and will only lessen your chances by putting distance between you and them on most maps. They will just shoot you in the back with their rail rifles or scramblers. Sometimes terrain and obstacles are kind, but in most places it is not. A squad will end up surrounding you. What you are talking about is camping. That, imho, is a weak way to play, and will net you low kill counts at best. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6380	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:44:00 - [120] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I agree that the cloak will be an excellent mobility tool. The biggest issue we ninjas always have with big maps is the lack of cover. Any cover in those large maps are always few and far in between. This forces us to take extremely long routes that take up a chunk of our time to get to our destination. And if by any chance we get caught before uplinks can be set, we have to start all over and by then it is likely that the same route we took is no longer safe. This is most apparent in maps like line harvest, iron delta, and spine crescent or that somewhat-recent crater map. Cover is paramount to a scout. Without it, we are relegated to being literally on the sidelines for most of the match. That's no fun for us ninjas. This is where one area cloaks will shine or should shine the best. In CQC is should be more for the ability to hide in a corner catch a breather plan the next step before going out to snatch another person out of the squad you're harassing. False. Maybe the way you think it is played, but for a minja that would be more death and no kills. Once you commit, you have to go all in. Squads communicate, and once their heavy goes down they all know it. Once they know you are there you have to keep going. You are not going to escape, and will only lessen your chances by putting distance between you and them on most maps. They will just shoot you in the back with their rail rifles or scramblers. Sometimes terrain and obstacles are kind, but in most places it is not. A squad will end up surrounding you. What you are talking about is camping. That, imho, is a weak way to play, and will net you low kill counts at best. Then what do you suggest exactly (mechanics wise) on how to implement the cloak? To suit a write variety of purposes at least. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

mollerz Minja Scouts 1719	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:35:00 - [121] - Quote How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11874	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:38:00 - [122] - Quote mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6381	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:51:00 - [123] - Quote mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? It's a minor nerf meant to protect the cloak. Just like how knives came pre nerfed and were later buffed. Pre nerfed tools have a higher likelihood of avoiding over nerfs than normal tools. Remember the flay lock, laser rifles, and mass drivers? Those came in as normal but later ended up overly nerfed. A pre nerf is something that is still practical and useful but doesn't draw the attention of the "QQers". In fact, these have a higher likelihood of getting buffs later down the road. The knives came pre nerfed but later got buffed. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6381	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:56:00 - [124] - Quote As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
mollerz Minja Scouts 1723	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:10:00 - [125] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? It's a minor nerf meant to protect the cloak. Just like how knives came pre nerfed and were later buffed. Pre nerfed tools have a higher likelihood of avoiding over nerfs than normal tools. Remember the flay lock, laser rifles, and mass drivers? Those came in as normal but later ended up overly nerfed. A pre nerf is something that is still practical and useful but doesn't draw the attention of the "QQers". In fact, these have a higher likelihood of getting buffs later down the road. The knives came pre nerfed but later got buffed. I think this is patently wrong, and you know why. A prenerf is more harmful than anything because it hamstrings balance in the long run. And not for the good of the scouts. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 358	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:10:00 - [126] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. Other than forced proximity deactivation (not really necessary with a noise + firing delay) you have basically exactly described Planetside 2 cloaks, which imho are probably one of the best balanced cloaks in gaming. Their duration/recharge/limitations are almost exactly right.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 203	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:11:00 - [127] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? The suggestions you've made under the fitting and meta sections of the OP are quite reasonable, but the usage and weapons restrictions are over the top, and just make a device that is going to forced onto scouts as a core mechanic unusable. With all of your suggestions taken together, cloaks will be excellent for standing in one place not doing anything. Sounds great, but I've already got an MCC for that. I've yet to see an actual reason for nerfing the cloak aside from alot of people complaining that an as of yet untested device, with unknown stats, is somehow game breaking. So maybe supply a reason for having the table in the first place, instead of making the assumption that nerfing it into the ground is required before you've seen it in action?
mollerz Minja Scouts 1723	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:11:00 - [128] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum. Kind of an backwards way to approach something. I can't see getting behind that kind of thinking. EDIT: This is Maken before he got jedi mind tricked by med frames So what happened, Mak? You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1723	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:12:00 - [129] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? I have. I thought you read this forum top to bottom? You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6381	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:27:00 - [130] - Quote mollerz wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum. Kind of an backwards way to approach something. I can't see getting behind that kind of thinking. EDIT: This is Maken before he got jedi mind tricked by med frames So what happened, Mak? It's called being flexible and adapting. I'm not always a hardliner like people expect. Maybe I'm a hardliner when it comes to respecs but not on other things. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

mollerz Minja Scouts 1727	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:28:00 - [131] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum. Kind of an backwards way to approach something. I can't see getting behind that kind of thinking. EDIT: This is Maken before he got jedi mind tricked by med frames So what happened, Mak? It's called being flexible and adapting. I'm not always a hardliner like people expect. Maybe I'm a hardliner when it comes to respecs but not on other things. I'm shocked by your disregard for the rest of the scouting community's feelings on this. I thought you were more balanced than being rolled over by some med frames. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11887	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:39:00 - [132] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? I have. I thought you read this forum top to bottom? Whatever it was; it did not warrant my attention long enough. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 204	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:34:00 - [133] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? I have. I thought you read this forum top to bottom? Whatever it was; it did not warrant my attention long enough. Continuing on with the conversation. Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it. That still doesn't explain why the cloaking mechanic needs a nerf. Because it's easy isn't a reason to do it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6381	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:35:00 - [134] - Quote mollerz wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum. Kind of an backwards way to approach something. I can't see getting behind that kind of thinking. EDIT: This is Maken before he got jedi mind tricked by med frames So what happened, Mak? It's called being flexible and adapting. I'm not always a hardliner like people expect. Maybe I'm a hardliner when it comes to respecs but not on other things. I'm shocked by your disregard for the rest of the scouting community's feelings on this. I thought you were more balanced than being rolled over by some med frames. I am taking into consideration the feelings of scout community here. Us scouts have suffered enough as it is. I just don't want the QQers to have any more reason to nerf more things and we all know how dangerous CCP can be with a nerf bat when they get influenced by the loudest QQers out there (think of a drunk Thor at a bar fight... not pretty). I have seen the impact these type of players made when HMGs and HAVs first got nerfed. Then the Mass Driver got nerfed badly followed by the Flay Lock Pistol and the Dropships. It was QQ everywhere. Hell, there was QQ even for ARs of all things. Basically, if it killed you, it got the nerf bat. Only the knives were spared. It was sad. It still is sad. I just don't want the cloak to be "OK" on day one followed by the General Discussion forums being flooded with "NERF CLOAK", "REMOVE CLOAK", "CLOAK IS OP", "WHAT IS THIS, HARRY POTTER? NERF CLOAK", etc., etc., etc. then a month later we end up with a gimped cloak that is so useless we might as well just forget about it. You know what? Forget it. Forget all of my ideas and recommendations. Now that I think about it, QQers will just QQ anyways. I'll just let CCP throw the cloak as they like into the game and then just wait for the QQ as I eat popcorn. QQers seem to have so much influence nowadays. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
mollerz Minja Scouts 1750	Posted - 2014.01.11 08:48:00 - [135] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak? Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second? I have. I thought you read this forum top to bottom? Whatever it was; it did not warrant my attention long enough. Continuing on with the conversation. Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it. Oh well. I feel the same about your recommendations, I just don't have a CCP badge to swing behind it so excuuuUUse me so I bid you touche' You are inventing coding issues that don't exist. I'm not one to fall for that kind of stuff. Bring it back to being a sandbox game, as you are want to say. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1750	Posted - 2014.01.11 08:54:00 - [136] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I am taking into consideration the feelings of scout community here. Us scouts have suffered enough as it is. I just don't want the QQers to have any more reason to nerf more things and we all know how dangerous CCP can be with a nerf bat when they get influenced by the loudest QQers out there (think of a drunk Thor at a bar fight... not pretty). mollerz wrote: ok i read this as a made up baseless scenario backed up by a violent analogy. nothing less. nothing more. I have seen the impact these type of players made when HMGs and HAVs first got nerfed. Then the Mass Driver got nerfed badly followed by the Flay Lock Pistol and the Dropships. It was QQ everywhere. Hell, there was QQ even for ARs of all things. Basically, if it killed you, it got the nerf bat. Only the knives were spared. It was sad. It still is sad. mollerz wrote: Panic then. Go ahead. but keep it to yourself. don't come crying out into the streets bemoaning ** that hasn't happened, and probably won't but for the sake of your campaigning. I just don't want the cloak to be "OK" on day one followed by the General Discussion forums being flooded with "NERF CLOAK", "REMOVE CLOAK", "CLOAK IS OP", "WHAT IS THIS, HARRY POTTER? NERF CLOAK", etc., etc., etc. then a month later we end up with a gimped cloak that is so useless we might as well just forget about it. mollerz wrote: That is going to happen anyways. So what. I heard you don't even have a PS3 so it's not liek you'll witness it first hand, or even experience the changes. not to on your situation, but don't fubar the direction of the development fo this game if you can;te ven test it out. How can you even have a legitimate opinion? You know what? Forget it. Forget all of my ideas and recommendations. mollerz wrote: Ok. Already did. Will Do. Now please ask the same of everyone. Now that I think about it, QQers will just QQ anyways. I'll just let CCP throw the cloak as they like into the game and then just wait for the QQ as I eat popcorn. QQers seem to have so much influence nowadays. Cool, Because I hear you can only eat popcorn on these threads. Not play the game. Sorry if you have to read QQ on the forums, but just don't read it. Stop trying to ** up the game so the forums appear each day as you want. I mean, c'mon. Am I wrong? You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4279	Posted - 2014.01.11 10:04:00 - [137] - Quote mollerz wrote: You are inventing coding issues that don't exist. I'm not one to fall for that kind of stuff. Bring it back to being a sandbox game, as you are want to say. I'm pretty sure nobody said it's a coding issue. The problem is that releasing something new is almost always going to have it slightly off from perfect balance. If you allow it to be OP, then it's going to be nerfed, and everyone knows CCP over-nerf when something looks OP. You can look at almost every example of a nerf in DUST for evidence of that. Breach ARs way back in closed beta, Tac ARs more recently, HAVs when they were OP and got nerfed so hard that high-end shield tanks had to run from Militia Swarms, Flaylocks, etc, etc, etc. If they make sure the cloak is released SLIGHTLY underpowered - I agree the proposal currently appearing is probably more of a "pre-nerf" than we should be aiming for - then it will be first in line for buffs when CCP are reviewing things and see very few people using it, and the ones who do having only limited success. It isn't a matter of CODING. It's a matter of CCP's approach to development and trying to fix problems. People are trying to work around CCP's inherent inability to nerf things properly by forcing them to buff what needs fixing instead. A better solution would be to keep calling CCP out on their draconian over-nerfing until they ACTUALLY START LISTENING. When a lot of people are screaming loudly on the forums that something is broken and OP, that means a lot of people are noticing it's OP. It doesn't necessarily mean that the item in question is so horrifically OP that it needs 20% reductions in capability across almost every aspect of its functionality. CCP seem to understand how to incrementally buff something by improving one or two aspects in small increments, but when they nerf, they hit EVERYTHING that made the item in question useful. Lets use the example of Missile Turrets when they were ridiculously OP: If a weapon has perfect accuracy AND extreme range AND high splash damage AND a large splash radius, you don't need to nerf ALL of those things into the ground to find balance. Tone down the accuracy, so the shots are scattering instead of being pinpoint accurate, and reduce the range. Leave the damage and splash radius alone. They nerfed range, accuracy, splash radius and damage. I literally had a Scout standing still in front of my Missile HAV after the nerf and it took FIVE VOLLEYS before I landed a close enough miss for my splash damage to hurt him, and when I did, IT WASN'T ENOUGH TO KILL A SCOUT. If infantry are out in the open and relatively close, but far enough not to be below the angle you can easily fire, they should be consistently taking splash hits from a Large Missile Turret. If nerfs had been handled competently back then, we wouldn't have needed the massive vehicle redesign that's happened now. And with how many complaints there are about vehicles, we'll probably see them all getting nerfed again - even though there are only a few key elements that SHOULD be nerfed to fix them.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 204	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:03:00 - [138] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: mollerz wrote: You are inventing coding issues that don't exist. I'm not one to fall for that kind of stuff. Bring it back to being a sandbox game, as you are want to say. I'm pretty sure nobody said it's a coding issue. Aaah, actually IWS alluded to it being a coding issue, which is in Mollerz reply just above his response? Garrett Blacknova wrote: The problem is that releasing something new is almost always going to have it slightly off from perfect balance. Sure. But if cloaks are implemented with the massive deficiencies that are being detailed in these pro-nerf threads, it will be more than slightly off balance, it will be rendered completely ineffectual. Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you allow it to be OP, then it's going to be nerfed, and everyone knows CCP over-nerf when something looks OP. You can look at almost every example of a nerf in DUST for evidence of that. Breach ARs way back in closed beta, Tac ARs more recently, HAVs when they were OP and got nerfed so hard that high-end shield tanks had to run from Militia Swarms, Flaylocks, etc, etc, etc. If they make sure the cloak is released SLIGHTLY underpowered - I agree the proposal currently appearing is probably more of a "pre-nerf" than we should be aiming for - then it will be first in line for buffs when CCP are reviewing things and see very few people using it, and the ones who do having only limited success. It isn't a matter of CODING. It's a matter of CCP's approach to development and trying to fix problems. People are trying to work around CCP's inherent inability to nerf things properly by forcing them to buff what needs fixing instead. A better solution would be to keep calling CCP out on their draconian over-nerfing until they ACTUALLY START LISTENING. When a lot of people are screaming loudly on the forums that something is broken and OP, that means a lot of people are noticing it's OP. It doesn't necessarily mean that the item in question is so horrifically OP that it needs 20% reductions in capability across almost every aspect of its functionality. CCP seem to understand how to incrementally buff something by improving one or two aspects in small increments, but when they nerf, they hit EVERYTHING that made the item in question useful. A lot of people are already screaming loudly about cloaks, and it's not even in game. How loud do you think it will be once the first person dies to one being used in anger? I'm yet to see a satisfactory answer as to why the proposed cloak is OP and requires a nerf. Every pro-nerf argument so far seems to be based on the idea that cloaking, and in particular the ability to shoot from cloak, is inherently broken regardless of the many game play elements that have already been revealed that mean a cloak will likely play best as a defensive item. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702679#post1702679 As mentioned in the link above, there are already a number of game play elements that reduce the effectiveness of the cloak. The active scanner is a hard counter to the cloak, movement reduces it's effectiveness, there are cool downs and break conditions, and you still trigger the targeting reticule. Pre-requesting the draconian over-nerfing of an item that is not yet in game is not the way to get CCP to ACTUALLY START LISTENING so they stop their draconian over-nerfing of an item, it just reinforces their exiting methodology. How about, just as a suggestion, we wait to see the full details of the cloak prior to calling for everything to be changed based the possible outcome of a single ability. Or, crazier still, wait until it's actually in game and can be tested in game play conditions? As of yet, there is no way to actually know how the cloak performs on the battlefield, as we only have the bare bones mechanics and no details of item stats, or other changes to game play that may effect the performance of the cloak.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11916	Posted - 2014.01.11 17:12:00 - [139] - Quote Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around. Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11922	Posted - 2014.01.11 18:12:00 - [140] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. Other than forced proximity deactivation (not really necessary with a noise + firing delay) you have basically exactly described Planetside 2 cloaks, which imho are probably one of the best balanced cloaks in gaming. Their duration/recharge/limitations are almost exactly right. PS2 cloaks persists through lethal amounts of damage, which is their most excessively overpowered point they still have. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 206	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:39:00 - [141] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around. Roll back mechanics and alternate functions can (and should) be programmed during the development cycle, as a standard for software development activities. They doesn't mean then need to be implemented immediately. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet. ...really? So you can't wait to see how things function in game before making a knee jerk reaction to it? Nice. I look forward to your nerf threads for the proposed changes to dropsuits. I'll say the same thing to you I've said to Kain. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1766	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:01:00 - [142] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it. @Garret Blacknova That's inferring coding problems that don't exist as a reason for making a shogun blast level noise when you decloak. All this theorization about prenerfing in order to barely not get nerfed or massively nerfed.. OR OR? Think of the logis for god sake man!? GTFO with that nonsense. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11940	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:12:00 - [143] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around. Roll back mechanics and alternate functions can (and should) be programmed during the development cycle, as a standard for software development activities. They doesn't mean then need to be implemented immediately. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet. ...really? So you can't wait to see how things function in game before making a knee jerk reaction to it? Nice. I look forward to your nerf threads for the proposed changes to dropsuits. I'll say the same thing to you I've said to Kain. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it. I invite you to take a stroll through all of the SDE and try to think how ccp thinks, you'll see the level atrocities they do commit currently. http://pct-gritb.rhcloud.com/sde/class CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11940	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:13:00 - [144] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it. @Garret Blacknova That's inferring coding problems that don't exist as a reason for making a shogun blast level noise when you decloak. All this theorization about prenerfing in order to barely not get nerfed or massively nerfed.. OR OR? Think of the logis for god sake man!? GTFO with that nonsense. Just preliminaries that logis are going to out cloak scouts. Even worse the active scanner is supposively going to be the anti-cloaking tool, guess who has two equipment slots to do both? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1708873#post1708873 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3532	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:22:00 - [145] - Quote "Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down" Just going to leave this little tidbit here while I read the rest We used to have a time machine
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3532	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:28:00 - [146] - Quote The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. We used to have a time machine
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 206	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:40:00 - [147] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around. Roll back mechanics and alternate functions can (and should) be programmed during the development cycle, as a standard for software development activities. They doesn't mean then need to be implemented immediately. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet. ...really? So you can't wait to see how things function in game before making a knee jerk reaction to it? Nice. I look forward to your nerf threads for the proposed changes to dropsuits. I'll say the same thing to you I've said to Kain. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it. I invite you to take a stroll through all of the SDE and try to think how ccp thinks, you'll see the level atrocities they do commit currently. http://pct-gritb.rhcloud.com/sde/class So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? My first question still stands. Can you explain why the mechanic is inherently broken and needs to be 'fixed' prior to knowing the full details of implementation or seeing how it plays in production? Feel free to use small words so I'll understand it.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1205	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:07:00 - [148] - Quote What I would like to know is: GÇóAre the scouts base db an percision getting overhauled? GÇóWill logistics bonuses make cloaking just as easy as a scout since they have more low slots than all but the gallente scouts the GÇócan damp to 15 an cloak? That's not right! GÇóWhy do scouts lose the 5% db per level when it's obvious gal logistics will be FTOM an be able to find anyone GÇóEquip bonuses an scout bonuses will make logistics more scout like than scouts . GÇó if scouts lose the pd bonus did we acquire another slot, db change, or did you nerf the proto scanner? GÇó if our lowest db is above the scanner an the cloak is super visable on a fast min scout with a h2h suit bonus does that not seem almost void to use if you stick out like a red thumb? GÇó unless you reworked our suits an scanners does it not seem that you made it harder? GÇó why can the cloak on a scout just be built into the suit with a bonus to its duration per level so we can use equip if we never got a second slot? GÇó logistics will be able to scan, profile damp, use equip and cloak- something's not right SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
mollerz Minja Scouts 1772	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:23:00 - [149] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it. @Garret Blacknova That's inferring coding problems that don't exist as a reason for making a shogun blast level noise when you decloak. All this theorization about prenerfing in order to barely not get nerfed or massively nerfed.. OR OR? Think of the logis for god sake man!? GTFO with that nonsense. Just preliminaries that logis are going to out cloak scouts. Even worse the active scanner is supposively going to be the anti-cloaking tool, guess who has two equipment slots to do both? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1708873#post1708873 So fix that, don't collaterally nerf scouts (again) over logi bullshit. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1772	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:25:00 - [150] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla

mollerz Minja Scouts 1772	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:27:00 - [151] - Quote Brokerib wrote: So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? I know right? He wants shotgun noises to go off, do some QOS SFX handling, buffers based on different geometry types to dcloak. How about something simple? Eve style.. 99% cost reduction for s scout vs other classes, work out the proper math on that cost and voila. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11959	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:37:00 - [152] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around. Roll back mechanics and alternate functions can (and should) be programmed during the development cycle, as a standard for software development activities. They doesn't mean then need to be implemented immediately. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet. ...really? So you can't wait to see how things function in game before making a knee jerk reaction to it? Nice. I look forward to your nerf threads for the proposed changes to dropsuits. I'll say the same thing to you I've said to Kain. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it. I invite you to take a stroll through all of the SDE and try to think how ccp thinks, you'll see the level atrocities they do commit currently. http://pct-gritb.rhcloud.com/sde/class So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? My first question still stands. Can you explain why the mechanic is inherently broken and needs to be 'fixed' prior to knowing the full details of implementation or seeing how it plays in production? Feel free to use small words so I'll understand it. http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11959	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:38:00 - [153] - Quote mollerz wrote: Brokerib wrote: So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? I know right? He wants shotgun noises to go off, do some QOS SFX handling, buffers based on different geometry types to dcloak. How about something simple? Eve style.. 99% cost reduction for s scout vs other classes, work out the proper math on that cost and voila. Hey mollerz mind stop being an idiot for once? I said the distance you can hear a cloak is the same as that of a shotgun optimal range. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6387	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:40:00 - [154] - Quote mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. Perhaps it really is a bad idea to implement a decloak distance after all. Considering the nature of how scouts have to move in a city, this can be a problem especially when being in a city will be bumping into everyone every 1 minute. I thought it would ok to implement since 1.5m (max) is about the distance in which you can kill with the nova knives but then it dawned on me... What happens if I pass through a room where I have to go under an objective that is more than 1.5m above me but the system doesn't recognize up or down? Remember, when you use the active scanner you can see scanned targets well above you even when you're not aiming up towards them. The system seems to have a problem with separating up from down when it comes to things like this. If this problem persists for cloaks, the decloak distance will become a headache for most scouts. There is also the problem with LAVs that just randomly pass by so imagine being decloaked just because an LAV came out from a corner. I don't know about you guys, but I would rather become street pizza because the driver didn't see me rather than become a fresh target for the turret gunner because I was too close to his LAV. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11959	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:40:00 - [155] - Quote OZAROW wrote: What I would like to know is: GÇóAre the scouts base db an percision getting overhauled? GÇóWill logistics bonuses make cloaking just as easy as a scout since they have more low slots than all but the gallente scouts the GÇócan damp to 15 an cloak? That's not right! GÇóWhy do scouts lose the 5% db per level when it's obvious gal logistics will be FTOM an be able to find anyone GÇóEquip bonuses an scout bonuses will make logistics more scout like than scouts . GÇó if scouts lose the pd bonus did we acquire another slot, db change, or did you nerf the proto scanner? GÇó if our lowest db is above the scanner an the cloak is super visable on a fast min scout with a h2h suit bonus does that not seem almost void to use if you stick out like a red thumb? GÇó unless you reworked our suits an scanners does it not seem that you made it harder? GÇó why can the cloak on a scout just be built into the suit with a bonus to its duration per level so we can use equip if we never got a second slot? GÇó logistics will be able to scan, profile damp, use equip and cloak- something's not right Assume worst case scenario. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11959	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:41:00 - [156] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. Perhaps it really is a bad idea to implement a decloak distance after all. Considering the nature of how scouts have to move in a city, this can be a problem especially when being in a city will be bumping into everyone every 1 minute. I thought it would ok to implement since 1.5m (max) is about the distance in which you can kill with the nova knives but then it dawned on me... What happens if I pass through a room where I have to go under an objective that is more than 1.5m above me but the system doesn't recognize up or down? Remember, when you use the active scanner you can see scanned targets well above you even when you're not aiming up towards them. The system seems to have a problem with separating up from down when it comes to things like this. If this problem persists for cloaks, the decloak distance will become a headache for most scouts. There is also the problem with LAVs that just randomly pass by so imagine being decloaked just because an LAV came out from a corner. I don't know about you guys, but I would rather become street pizza because the driver didn't see me rather than become a fresh target for the turret gunner because I was too close to his LAV. Active scanners still have a max distance up and down though. you cannot scan targets if you're on top of the tower and you're trying to see things on the bottom of the tower unless you have a flux variant. Go play AWACs in a dropship. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6387	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:45:00 - [157] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Brokerib wrote: So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? I know right? He wants shotgun noises to go off, do some QOS SFX handling, buffers based on different geometry types to dcloak. How about something simple? Eve style.. 99% cost reduction for s scout vs other classes, work out the proper math on that cost and voila. Hey mollerz mind stop being an idiot for once? I said the distance you can hear a cloak is the same as that of a shotgun optimal range. I'm gonna have to agree with Mollerz on this. The sound you're looking for would be too loud. I would be ok with just the current default decloak sound you hear when you respawn. It is subtle and doesn't grab too much attention especially if people are busy getting shot at. But if the current decloak respawn sound is kept for the cloaking equipment, then I expect nothing less of at least being able to immediately use a weapon when I decloak. No shooting delays. I don't want to suffer that mechanic that active scanners have. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6387	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:51:00 - [158] - Quote Overall, if shooting while cloaked is implemented, then I wish for the cloak to become fully depleted no matter which weapon you use. Maybe an exception for melee attacks or nova knives (uncharged) but everything else should cause the cloak to fully deplete on the first shot. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3537	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:54:00 - [159] - Quote mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. If I'm that damn close, I'm going to uncloak and shank their ass anyway. We used to have a time machine
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11961	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:54:00 - [160] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Brokerib wrote: So you're going to combat this by increasing the level of complexity involved in coding the cloaks and giving them a greater number of factors to balance? I know right? He wants shotgun noises to go off, do some QOS SFX handling, buffers based on different geometry types to dcloak. How about something simple? Eve style.. 99% cost reduction for s scout vs other classes, work out the proper math on that cost and voila. Hey mollerz mind stop being an idiot for once? I said the distance you can hear a cloak is the same as that of a shotgun optimal range. I'm gonna have to agree with Mollerz on this. The sound you're looking for would be too loud. I would be ok with just the current default decloak sound you hear when you respawn. It is subtle and doesn't grab too much attention especially if people are busy getting shot at. But if the current decloak respawn sound is kept for the cloaking equipment, then I expect nothing less of at least being able to immediately use a weapon when I decloak. No shooting delays. I don't want to suffer that mechanic that active scanners have. What decloak sound? I was stabbing drop uplinks today and people decloaked right on top of it, no sound. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11961	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:56:00 - [161] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. If I'm that damn close, I'm going to uncloak and shank their ass anyway. ^This Anyways we could two sounds possibly. A slower quieter one for the one you deactivate yourself, and a much louder one for when something else breaks it similar to the shield shattering noise. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6387	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:00:00 - [162] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. If I'm that damn close, I'm going to uncloak and shank their ass anyway. ^This Anyways we could two sounds possibly. A slower quieter one for the one you deactivate yourself, and a much louder one for when something else breaks it similar to the shield shattering noise. Nah, just the slow quiet one for both situations. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3537	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:23:00 - [163] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: mollerz wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m. So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red. False. That is bad. You must not knife often if you don't realize what a 1.5m decloak buffer would be. CQC is way to fubar for that to be fair. If I'm that damn close, I'm going to uncloak and shank their ass anyway. ^This Anyways we could two sounds possibly. A slower quieter one for the one you deactivate yourself, and a much louder one for when something else breaks it similar to the shield shattering noise. There's a shield shattering noise? We used to have a time machine
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:25:00 - [164] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11968	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:08:00 - [165] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? Active scanner told you how many ninjas are out there. Flux grenade has been proven to be very unreliable (hence its unpopularity) in destroying equipment of any sort so decloaking is also less likely. manage the situation. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6388	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:41:00 - [166] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? The Gallente scout Gk.0 will be something stealth players will go for. But honestly the Minmatar should be the go-to suit for speed and knife damage, the Amarr scout and Caldari scout... I'm not sure. Of course we still don't know if stats like HP, slot layout, and others will change in the next update. If suit bonuses are being changed across the board, god knows what changes we will see to everything else. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3229	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:43:00 - [167] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? The Gallente scout Gk.0 will be something stealth players will go for. But honestly the Minmatar should be the go-to suit for speed and knife damage, the Amarr scout and Caldari scout... I'm not sure. Of course we still don't know if stats like HP, slot layout, and others will change in the next update. If suit bonuses are being changed across the board, god knows what changes we will see to everything else. The Caldari scout should definitely be hacking. You wanna battle / Aztec's not afraid of you / I could care less about your reputation / Even though it maybe true.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6388	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:44:00 - [168] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? Active scanner told you how many ninjas are out there. Flux grenade has been proven to be very unreliable (hence its unpopularity) in destroying equipment of any sort so decloaking is also less likely. manage the situation. The scanner will only tell you what it can see. If I'm wearing a profile damped suit, you won't see me. And if my profile is low enough still I will prevent the scanner from telling you of any margin of error. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:53:00 - [169] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? Active scanner told you how many ninjas are out there. Flux grenade has been proven to be very unreliable (hence its unpopularity) in destroying equipment of any sort so decloaking is also less likely. manage the situation. Still no reasoning. Fine. More hypotheticals instead. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Locus_Grenade or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Mass_Driver or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Plasma_Cannon or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Heavy_Machine_Gun or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Orbital_Bombardment Or how about this as an alternative. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Heavy_Attack_Vehicles + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner_Modules There's any number of scenarios that have a good chance of success when using a hard counter like the active scanner. Or passive scanning for that matter. Then there are also soft counters like scanning a room when you enter it or tossing a grenade at an installation to clear it. Seriously, you already know all of this, its no different to handling scouts now, or checking for REs. You and every other vet has had to adjust to similar threats already.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11968	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:57:00 - [170] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/347/394/74a.jpg Manage this situation. Ok. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flux_Grenade With the changes to dampening bonus on scouts, there will be exactly one type of scout who will be able to sit invisible and not show up on a scan. Seriously, do you have any actual reasoning for the cloak being a problem, aside from just not liking the idea? Active scanner told you how many ninjas are out there. Flux grenade has been proven to be very unreliable (hence its unpopularity) in destroying equipment of any sort so decloaking is also less likely. manage the situation. Still no reasoning. Fine. More hypotheticals instead. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Locus_Grenade or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Mass_Driver or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Plasma_Cannon or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Heavy_Machine_Gun or http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Orbital_Bombardment Or how about this as an alternative. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Heavy_Attack_Vehicles + http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Active_Scanner_Modules There's any number of scenarios that have a good chance of success when using a hard counter like the active scanner. Or passive scanning for that matter. Then there are also soft counters like scanning a room when you enter it or tossing a grenade at an installation to clear it. Seriously, you already know all of this, its no different to handling scouts now, or checking for REs. You and every other vet has had to adjust to similar threats already. Passive scanners visuals are somewhat broken as well... There is a common complaint about the IFFs not working all that well and leading to plenty of both friendly fire incidents and botched attacks. This compounding with lack of hit markers and reticule color changes on a variety of weapons is making this portion of game play ever increasingly annoying. BTW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:49:00 - [171] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: First off all the above solutions you provided are needle in the haystacks firings and waste of good ammo. Passive scanners visuals are somewhat broken as well... There is a common complaint about the IFFs not working all that well and leading to plenty of both friendly fire incidents and botched attacks. This compounding with lack of hitmarkers and reticle color changes on a variety of weapons is making this portion of game play ever increasingly annoying. BTW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare The Anti-sub article is an excellent and very apt piece, but it appears to be re-enforcing my point? So...thanks, I guess? Like many forms of warfare, successful anti-submarine warfare depends on a mix of sensor and weapon technology, training, experience and luck. Sophisticated sonar equipment for first detecting, then classifying, locating and tracking the target submarine is a key element of ASW. To destroy submarines both the torpedo and mine are used, launched from air, surface and underwater platforms. So the counter for subs is to use sensors (active and passive scanning) to identify them, then explosive devices (AOE weapons) to neutralise. Sounds alot like the situation I've described above. Firing an AOE weapon at the approximate location of an invisible suit is hardly a needle in a haystack, or a waste of ammo. In fact, firing at the approximate location of a suit is pretty much the primary purpose of AOE weapons. But if you need something extra, try aiming your weapon towards where the dot appears on your mini map, and then pull the trigger when it turns red? With that, I've given you a total of 8 hypothetical counters for the one hypothetical situation involving cloaked suits so far. I'm happy to continue for as long as you like but for now, how about answering a question for me. Are you able to explain what about the cloak make it so broken that the CPM is working together to pull off a nerf before it even makes it into game? What is so game changing that this level of engagement is required? Nothing you've mentioned so far explains the amount of effort you and Kain have put into destroying the cloak before its even released. It may be a bad mechanic, but the effort you've expended is so far out of proportion that's it's starting to seem like a troll. So explain it to me.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11973	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:08:00 - [172] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: First off all the above solutions you provided are needle in the haystacks firings and waste of good ammo. Passive scanners visuals are somewhat broken as well... There is a common complaint about the IFFs not working all that well and leading to plenty of both friendly fire incidents and botched attacks. This compounding with lack of hitmarkers and reticle color changes on a variety of weapons is making this portion of game play ever increasingly annoying. BTW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare The Anti-sub article is an excellent and very apt piece, but it appears to be re-enforcing my point? So...thanks, I guess? Like many forms of warfare, successful anti-submarine warfare depends on a mix of sensor and weapon technology, training, experience and luck. Sophisticated sonar equipment for first detecting, then classifying, locating and tracking the target submarine is a key element of ASW. To destroy submarines both the torpedo and mine are used, launched from air, surface and underwater platforms. So the counter for subs is to use sensors (active and passive scanning) to identify them, then explosive devices (AOE weapons) to neutralise. Sounds alot like the situation I've described above. Firing an AOE weapon at the approximate location of an invisible suit is hardly a needle in a haystack, or a waste of ammo. In fact, firing at the approximate location of a suit is pretty much the primary purpose of AOE weapons. But if you need something extra, try aiming your weapon towards where the dot appears on your mini map, and then pull the trigger when it turns red? With that, I've given you a total of 8 hypothetical counters for the one hypothetical situation involving cloaked suits so far. I'm happy to continue for as long as you like but for now, how about answering a question for me. Are you able to explain what about the cloak make it so broken that the CPM is working together to pull off a nerf before it even makes it into game? What is so game changing that this level of engagement is required? Nothing you've mentioned so far explains the amount of effort you and Kain have put into destroying the cloak before its even released. It may be a bad mechanic, but the effort you've expended is so far out of proportion that's it's starting to seem like a troll. So explain it to me. Actually it breaks your point quite a bit but since you're incapable of getting it. Lets play this again then http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ocean.jpg I am a new generation diesel sub, I don't want to be found, Find me. All the old methods the old tech it don't work anymore, feel free to use them. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 775	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:30:00 - [173] - Quote i think its odd that someone such as IWS with his inside knowledge is afraid of "scouts" being forced to hold cloacks to maximize their suits.... when eventually other light frames that dont use cloaks will be released making it so that you WANT a suit specialised around cloaks
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11976	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:35:00 - [174] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: i think its odd that someone such as IWS with his inside knowledge is afraid of "scouts" being forced to hold cloacks to maximize their suits.... when eventually other light frames that dont use cloaks will be released making it so that you WANT a suit specialised around cloaks I am an Omni-soldier, I don't have a favorite fit and based on my insider knowledge I rather just delete cloaks, but knowing ccp I can't stop that. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Grave Oblivion 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 19	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:39:00 - [175] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: First off all the above solutions you provided are needle in the haystacks firings and waste of good ammo. Passive scanners visuals are somewhat broken as well... There is a common complaint about the IFFs not working all that well and leading to plenty of both friendly fire incidents and botched attacks. This compounding with lack of hitmarkers and reticle color changes on a variety of weapons is making this portion of game play ever increasingly annoying. BTW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare The Anti-sub article is an excellent and very apt piece, but it appears to be re-enforcing my point? So...thanks, I guess? Like many forms of warfare, successful anti-submarine warfare depends on a mix of sensor and weapon technology, training, experience and luck. Sophisticated sonar equipment for first detecting, then classifying, locating and tracking the target submarine is a key element of ASW. To destroy submarines both the torpedo and mine are used, launched from air, surface and underwater platforms. So the counter for subs is to use sensors (active and passive scanning) to identify them, then explosive devices (AOE weapons) to neutralise. Sounds alot like the situation I've described above. Firing an AOE weapon at the approximate location of an invisible suit is hardly a needle in a haystack, or a waste of ammo. In fact, firing at the approximate location of a suit is pretty much the primary purpose of AOE weapons. But if you need something extra, try aiming your weapon towards where the dot appears on your mini map, and then pull the trigger when it turns red? With that, I've given you a total of 8 hypothetical counters for the one hypothetical situation involving cloaked suits so far. I'm happy to continue for as long as you like but for now, how about answering a question for me. Are you able to explain what about the cloak make it so broken that the CPM is working together to pull off a nerf before it even makes it into game? What is so game changing that this level of engagement is required? Nothing you've mentioned so far explains the amount of effort you and Kain have put into destroying the cloak before its even released. It may be a bad mechanic, but the effort you've expended is so far out of proportion that's it's starting to seem like a troll. So explain it to me. Actually it breaks your point quite a bit but since you're incapable of getting it. Lets play this again then http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ocean.jpg I am a new generation diesel sub, I don't want to be found, Find me. All the old methods the old tech it don't work anymore, feel free to use them. The new (active scanner) vds or variable depth sonar will find it I think
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11976	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:45:00 - [176] - Quote Grave Oblivion wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: First off all the above solutions you provided are needle in the haystacks firings and waste of good ammo. Passive scanners visuals are somewhat broken as well... There is a common complaint about the IFFs not working all that well and leading to plenty of both friendly fire incidents and botched attacks. This compounding with lack of hitmarkers and reticle color changes on a variety of weapons is making this portion of game play ever increasingly annoying. BTW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare The Anti-sub article is an excellent and very apt piece, but it appears to be re-enforcing my point? So...thanks, I guess? Like many forms of warfare, successful anti-submarine warfare depends on a mix of sensor and weapon technology, training, experience and luck. Sophisticated sonar equipment for first detecting, then classifying, locating and tracking the target submarine is a key element of ASW. To destroy submarines both the torpedo and mine are used, launched from air, surface and underwater platforms. So the counter for subs is to use sensors (active and passive scanning) to identify them, then explosive devices (AOE weapons) to neutralise. Sounds alot like the situation I've described above. Firing an AOE weapon at the approximate location of an invisible suit is hardly a needle in a haystack, or a waste of ammo. In fact, firing at the approximate location of a suit is pretty much the primary purpose of AOE weapons. But if you need something extra, try aiming your weapon towards where the dot appears on your mini map, and then pull the trigger when it turns red? With that, I've given you a total of 8 hypothetical counters for the one hypothetical situation involving cloaked suits so far. I'm happy to continue for as long as you like but for now, how about answering a question for me. Are you able to explain what about the cloak make it so broken that the CPM is working together to pull off a nerf before it even makes it into game? What is so game changing that this level of engagement is required? Nothing you've mentioned so far explains the amount of effort you and Kain have put into destroying the cloak before its even released. It may be a bad mechanic, but the effort you've expended is so far out of proportion that's it's starting to seem like a troll. So explain it to me. Actually it breaks your point quite a bit but since you're incapable of getting it. Lets play this again then http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ocean.jpg I am a new generation diesel sub, I don't want to be found, Find me. All the old methods the old tech it don't work anymore, feel free to use them. The new (active scanner) vds or variable depth sonar will find it I think That does not work against acoustic active camo techniques deployed back in the 80s or just plain lack of knowledge on the scanning ship, what looks like a big rock is really a rock according to the sonar despite its submarine like shape. There are plenty of rocks like this around and even a couple old wrecks. My passive sonar however just picked that up and I know exactly where you are at now. Try again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6388	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:47:00 - [177] - Quote @broker Well, the only concern I have is the ability to fire while cloaked. If the mechanic was designed so that firing even a single shot regardless of the weapon (sniper, smg, pistol, etc) would decloak the suit completely, then I wouldn't mind it being allowed to fire when cloaked. Perhaps even make an exception for nova knives (uncharged) or melee attacks when fitted on a Minmatar scout suit so that dedicated knifers can make the most of the cloak. I mean after all the Minmatar scout does need some cloak related bonus. The Amarr and Caldari scouts already have cloak-based bonuses such one for cooldown and another for firing. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:50:00 - [178] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Actually it breaks your point quite a bit but since you're incapable of getting it. Lets play this again then http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ocean.jpg I am a new generation diesel sub, I don't want to be found, Find me. All the old methods the old tech it don't work anymore, feel free to use them. I'm done man. This hypothetical is even more far fetched than the last one. There is no 'new sub' and old tech that doesn't work any more, as the current equipment can be used to identify, find, or counter cloaked suits. The situation you describe is wildly inaccurate and in no way represents the in game situation. And you're still unable to give me a strait answer as to how the cloaks break the game. If it's so simple that you can represent it with pictures and snide remarks, surely you can write it down in a paragraph or two so even someone as slow as me can understand it. At this point you're just trolling, and I'm not interested. I just hope that CCP reads the entire thread to see how baseless your nerf quest is. /unsubscribe
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 775	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:51:00 - [179] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: i think its odd that someone such as IWS with his inside knowledge is afraid of "scouts" being forced to hold cloacks to maximize their suits.... when eventually other light frames that dont use cloaks will be released making it so that you WANT a suit specialised around cloaks I am an Omni-soldier, I don't have a favorite fit and based on my insider knowledge I rather just delete cloaks, but knowing ccp I can't stop that. the point is that its actually GOOD to have a light frame that specialises specifically in cloaks becuase while we dont have other light frames right now, we will have other light roles other then "scout" in the future i just found it odd that it was one of your cloak concerns that "scouts" would be almost forced ot run a cloak when at some point there will be other light frames for people who dont want to run a cloak i do agree though, invisability in ANY game tends to break things there alomost no reasonable way to balance it in a game like this unlike say WoW where rogues are balacned entirely around their stealth.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 208	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:02:00 - [180] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @broker Well, the only concern I have is the ability to fire while cloaked. If the mechanic was designed so that firing even a single shot regardless of the weapon (sniper, smg, pistol, etc) would decloak the suit completely, then I wouldn't mind it being allowed to fire when cloaked. Perhaps even make an exception for nova knives (uncharged) or melee attacks when fitted on a Minmatar scout suit so that dedicated knifers can make the most of the cloak. I mean after all the Minmatar scout does need some cloak related bonus. The Amarr and Caldari scouts already have cloak-based bonuses such one for cooldown and another for firing. Now if a cloak allowed more than one shot to be fired without losing all of the cloak, then that might present problems. I'm fine with the cloak dropping after the first shot. In fact, I'm fine with the cloak not being implemented at all so scouts don't end up pigeon-holed by a single piece of equipment. I'm not fine with baseless nerf threads trying to add so much fine print to its usage that that its is completely ineffective. If people don't want it, then advocate for that. Pushing for a mega nerf under the guise of 'balance' is disingenuous at best. That said, the devs have already told us that the cloak will drop in relation to firing a weapon. How about we wait to see the actual values involved and how it plays in game, before we attempt to pre-nerf based on hearsay...

ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 10	Posted - 2014.01.12 12:07:00 - [181] - Quote You know I was originally in favour of having the cloak be 'pre-nerfed' as it were but after speaking with other mercs and other scouts - the cloak needs to be useable. Right now scouts already struggle to even fit the few slots we do have with PG / CPU contraints! They cannot be penalised further, with even less space for fitting with the cloak. That will hurt scouts a lot if all they can do is fit crappy standard modules and what do they get for there troubles? A cloak that just lets them sneak like they do anyway. Best case scenario in the current proposed meta is for scouts - little fitting requirements allowing them to use everything they would normally. I am also not sure that taking away cloak firing is a great idea but we wont know until they are all released. I certainly dont want it to be easy for non scouts to fit cloaks especially logistics. If logi suits can use the cloak just as effectively as a scout suit then it is broken before it even leaves the dev shop.
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6394	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:11:00 - [182] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: You know I was originally in favour of having the cloak be 'pre-nerfed' as it were but after speaking with other mercs and other scouts - the cloak needs to be useable. Right now scouts already struggle to even fit the few slots we do have with PG / CPU contraints! They cannot be penalised further, with even less space for fitting with the cloak. That will hurt scouts a lot if all they can do is fit crappy standard modules and what do they get for there troubles? A cloak that just lets them sneak like they do anyway. Best case scenario in the current proposed meta is for scouts - little fitting requirements allowing them to use everything they would normally. I am also not sure that taking away cloak firing is a great idea but we wont know until they are all released. I certainly dont want it to be easy for non scouts to fit cloaks especially logistics. If logi suits can use the cloak just as effectively as a scout suit then it is broken before it even leaves the dev shop. The fitting part of this debate is something I can definitely agree with you on. I'm glad that CCP Remnant pointed out that scouts should get a huge fitting bonus towards the cloak. Make the CPU and PG high enough that it can potential gimp other suit classes but give scouts at least an 80% reduction bonus to its CPU and PG usage. Something like... 250 CPU 60 PG ...when fitted on anything other than a scout. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6394	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:15:00 - [183] - Quote I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 52	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:46:00 - [184] - Quote OP, do you have a vendetta against cloaks? You seem to be forgetting the shimmer effect. Uncloaking on proximity is extremely silly when you consider that cloaked players are not fully invisible. They are just harder to see. That alone will mean that the effect will be greatly diminished at short ranges. Considering our small FOV, it might not even be all that different from uncloaked players. Shimmer + proximity uncloak is basically a double nerf for a single usage scenario. What are cloaks even supposed to be for, in your opinion? Maybe that's the correct question to ask. From the OP post, cloaks would basically give you protection against snipers and stray HAVs while moving across the map. Except that you'd be unable to sprint, so they wouldn't be useful even for that. You can't stealth-kill, you can't wait at a mission objective until the enemy leaves the area. What DO you use them for? Also, what about sounds? Do cloaked players still make sounds while moving? From what I read, you can actually detect most players without seeing them if you have a headset.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11996	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:17:00 - [185] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: OP, do you have a vendetta against cloaks? You seem to be forgetting the shimmer effect. Uncloaking on proximity is extremely silly when you consider that cloaked players are not fully invisible. They are just harder to see. That alone will mean that the effect will be greatly diminished at short ranges. Considering our small FOV, it might not even be all that different from uncloaked players. Shimmer + proximity uncloak is basically a double nerf for a single usage scenario. What are cloaks even supposed to be for, in your opinion? Maybe that's the correct question to ask. From the OP post, cloaks would basically give you protection against snipers and stray HAVs while moving across the map. Except that you'd be unable to sprint, so they wouldn't be useful even for that. You can't stealth-kill, you can't wait at a mission objective until the enemy leaves the area. What DO you use them for? Also, what about sounds? Do cloaked players still make sounds while moving? From what I read, you can actually detect most players without seeing them if you have a headset. Edit: Close-range cloak or long-range cloak? The former would be balanced around cloaking time/cooldown/etc. The latter would be balanced around cloaking conditions, like proximity uncloak, and could work even without any time limit outside of Ambush. Thing is there been plenty of other games that done the shimmer effect, PS2 being the worst of it because you lose effective visual if they get too far away. Which is why they're gawd awfully unbalanced, I cannot count how many times that I had a scout cloak up on me while taking damage and just run away disappearing even at ambush ranged, and scout in that game can maintain cloak until they're out of health. Halo is not that bad considering your radar gets screwed up in the distance (which is about x2 over ps2s) and you start to look out for the 'shimmer.' and their cloaks don't persist that well under speed damage or firing and that most of the weapons you could blindfire with is not punishing because you can rearm over most dead players. Thus one can waste ammo in trying to flush a guy out. Dust 514 had a fake cloak not to long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and even the tags over the heads and yet that severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife range. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 621	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:58:00 - [186] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. a Lv5 scout or a proto scout suit? If you have the skill and resources you should be able to use any equipment - that is the basics of the game. In your blind spot
mollerz Minja Scouts 1800	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:06:00 - [187] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1801	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:09:00 - [188] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is ****** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:10:00 - [189] - Quote What does IWS know. He is the scrubbiest of the scrubs. Ignore him, my logistics suit needs a buff! And while we are at it, make a cloak for tanks too. I don't feel OP enough as it is! (as I've said before, this should be an innate ability for scouts, not equipment.) Nuff Said
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6402	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:35:00 - [190] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. a Lv5 scout or a proto scout suit? If you have the skill and resources you should be able to use any equipment - that is the basics of the game. At it's core, yes. And taking your "if you have enough skill and resources" argument, my idea actually supports your argument. If you have enough skills for the covert ops cloak and the prototype/covert ops scout then you should be able to use this particular equipment. If not, you can always fall back to the normal cloak equipment in the meantime. Here is a link to my suggestion thread posted in the feedback section of the forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=131175&find=unread The CPU and PG demands and bonus percentages might needs some adjustments, but overall that's the gist of what I'm hoping to see in the cloak. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6402	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:46:00 - [191] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is **** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. @IWS Dude, that was just a bug. You can't even compare that to legitimate cloaking mechanics we're talking about. There's a world of a difference between intentional mechanics and an unintentional bug that came up as a result of CCP wanting to address spawn killings. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD**
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12001	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:48:00 - [192] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is ****** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. Why not, it was a good enough of a preview event and if its as powerful as some of the cloaks I am used there will be cries to just delete the whole thing leaving scouts with a useless bonus. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6402	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:49:00 - [193] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is **** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. Why not, it was a good enough of a preview event and if its as powerful as some of the cloaks I am used there will be cries to just delete the whole thing leaving scouts with a useless bonus. Again, that was a bug that came up as a result of CCP addressing spawn killings. That was not exactly preview material. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD**
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12001	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:50:00 - [194] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is ****** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. Why not, it was a good enough of a preview event and if its as powerful as some of the cloaks I am used there will be cries to just delete the whole thing leaving scouts with a useless bonus. Again, that was a bug that came up as a result of CCP addressing spawn killings. That was not exactly preview material. Actually the bug was made to help deal with load balancing and it based on your weapons optimal so people with oh say knives and shotguns where literally running blind, others like myself where running blind when it felt like rearing its fugly head. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6402	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:56:00 - [195] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 had a fake cloak not too long ago, if you got hit with the absolute WORST of the rendering bug you'd know how terrible cloaks can be. People still showing up in the minimap and red reticule still happened and yet that still severely put you as a massive disadvantage as people did not render up to even knife ranges it was that bad. I gotten some of my best knife kills during that time too because likely I was not rendering to my victims. This is not a fake cloak. This is **** coding and one of a handful of game breaking bugs we've had to endure while it got sorted. It has no place in the cloak discussion, however. Don't cheapen cloaks based on bugs, we already dealt with those bugs enough. Why not, it was a good enough of a preview event and if its as powerful as some of the cloaks I am used there will be cries to just delete the whole thing leaving scouts with a useless bonus. Again, that was a bug that came up as a result of CCP addressing spawn killings. That was not exactly preview material. Actually the bug was made to help deal with load balancing and it based on your weapons optimal so people with oh say knives and shotguns where literally running blind, others like myself where running blind when it felt like rearing its fugly head. Um.... if that's the case... that's a poor way of doing things. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD**
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 621	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:11:00 - [196] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. a Lv5 scout or a proto scout suit? If you have the skill and resources you should be able to use any equipment - that is the basics of the game. At it's core, yes. And taking your "if you have enough skill and resources" argument, my idea actually supports your argument. If you have enough skills for the covert ops cloak and the prototype/covert ops scout then you should be able to use this particular equipment. If not, you can always fall back to the normal cloak equipment in the meantime. Here is a link to my suggestion thread posted in the feedback section of the forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=131175&find=unread The CPU and PG demands and bonus percentages might needs some adjustments, but overall that's the gist of what I'm hoping to see in the cloak. Yeah I hate that - if you want this type of stuff then it should be the same throughout the games. A proto / prof level weapon should only be able to be placed on proto suits. Complex mods should get fitting bonus for Lv5 suit but not Lv1-3 suit. @IWS - you lost the plot dude - reverse course. In your blind spot
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6406	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:18:00 - [197] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah I hate that - if you want this type of stuff then it should be the same throughout the games. A proto / prof level weapon should only be able to be placed on proto suits. Complex mods should get fitting bonus for Lv5 suit but not Lv1-3 suit. Not really. Take a look at Eve Online. Covert Ops Cloaking Device https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_ops_cloak Prototype Cloaking Device (in Eve Online, prototype is a low-tier) https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Prototype_Cloaking_Device_I Other Variants https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Electronics_and_Sensor_Upgrades:Cloaking_Devices As you can see, you can fit any ship with a cloaking device. However, if you want the full benefits package complete with a 401K and healthcare benefits, you'll need to train up to the high-tier ships and related modules. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 621	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:22:00 - [198] - Quote Yeah - dont play eve. If they want to bring in that stuff then so be it - its their game. Going on infantry setup we have I dont like it though I could see it coming later with other 2nd generation stuff like MTAC's, Lv 5 accessible new suits etc. In your blind spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12001	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:25:00 - [199] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there should also be an additional covert ops cloak that can only be fitted on no less than a prototype scout or covert ops specialty scout. This should have perks that the normal cloak doesn't have. Much like the covert ops cloak in Eve. a Lv5 scout or a proto scout suit? If you have the skill and resources you should be able to use any equipment - that is the basics of the game. At it's core, yes. And taking your "if you have enough skill and resources" argument, my idea actually supports your argument. If you have enough skills for the covert ops cloak and the prototype/covert ops scout then you should be able to use this particular equipment. If not, you can always fall back to the normal cloak equipment in the meantime. Here is a link to my suggestion thread posted in the feedback section of the forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=131175&find=unread The CPU and PG demands and bonus percentages might needs some adjustments, but overall that's the gist of what I'm hoping to see in the cloak. Yeah I hate that - if you want this type of stuff then it should be the same throughout the games. A proto / prof level weapon should only be able to be placed on proto suits. Complex mods should get fitting bonus for Lv5 suit but not Lv1-3 suit. @IWS - you lost the plot dude - reverse course. I know where I am at still. I see a cargo ship with no crew called the SS cloaking, heading straight towards the pier out of control. I do not have the means of sinking this ship. Now I have a variety of ships to throw in the way to slow it down before it smashes the pier or even try to divert the crash but no matter what happens something is going to get smashed to pieces and people are going to be very upset as to why I wanted to sacrifice one for the other. For all I care I don't give a damn how much damage I cause to the SS cloaking herself as long as the people on the pier are saved, particularly the scouts on the pier. The SS cloaking can get fixed after the crash, the people on the pier cannot be replaced. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6406	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:35:00 - [200] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah - dont play eve. If they want to bring in that stuff then so be it - its their game. Going on infantry setup we have I dont like it though I could see it coming later with other 2nd generation stuff like MTAC's, Lv 5 accessible new suits etc. I for one can't imagine the carnage that an invisible MTAC can bring to the battlefield. Anyways, it's ok if you don't play Eve Online. Eve has done it right when it comes to cloaks. This isn't the only aspect of Eve Online that has certain restrictions. For instance, you can't fit anymore than 1 command module (provides fleet bonuses) on a single ship unless the ship you're fitting it on is a high-tier ship designed specifically to provide maximum fleet bonuses. Case in point, the Orca and the Rorqual which are industrial command ships that can operate 3 command modules at once with no worries about CPU/PG consumption. Another example is the bomb launcher. You can only fit a bomb launcher (shoots bombs with a blast radius of up to 15km) onto a specialized stealth bomber. However, you're restricted from using it in high-sec and low-sec space and therefore you can only use it in null-sec space. There is also the Interdiction Warp Bubble which can only be fitted on an Interdictor. This is what enables you to create a field that has a radius of up to about 25km and use it to prevent any ship from warping out if caught in this bubble. However, the ship using it can't move while it's active and you can only use it in null-sec space. Carriers and Super Carriers in Eve Online are the only ships in Eve that can operate and manage fighters which are much more advanced than drones. These fighters can even be assigned to a particular fleet member and they follow that fleet member even in warp. Carriers are limited to null-sec and low-sec space. There you have it. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 622	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:53:00 - [201] - Quote Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. In your blind spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12005	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:58:00 - [202] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. My problem is far too many are saying wait and see, I know that is something they may regret asking for trust me as a CPM. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6407	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:04:00 - [203] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. My problem is far too many are saying wait and see, I know that is something they may regret asking for trust me as a CPM. I understand your concerns and that as a member of the CPM you want to help out, but as a member of the CPM you also have the responsibility of taking the needs of your constituents into account. If the majority wish to take the "wait-n-see" approach, then so be it. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12006	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:19:00 - [204] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. My problem is far too many are saying wait and see, I know that is something they may regret asking for trust me as a CPM. I understand your concerns and that as a member of the CPM you want to help out, but as a member of the CPM you also have the responsibility of taking the needs of your constituents into account. If the majority wish to take the "wait-n-see" approach, then so be it. I think you may need to take a quick tour around what the other CPMs are saying about the election and the next CPM and think about it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6409	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:23:00 - [205] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. My problem is far too many are saying wait and see, I know that is something they may regret asking for trust me as a CPM. I understand your concerns and that as a member of the CPM you want to help out, but as a member of the CPM you also have the responsibility of taking the needs of your constituents into account. If the majority wish to take the "wait-n-see" approach, then so be it. I think you may need to take a quick tour around what the other CPMs are saying about the election and the next CPM and think about it. This is not about the election right now. We're talking about cloaks. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12006	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:28:00 - [206] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Yeah but all dust has is HW for heavies. Anyway we will see what comes. @IWS - I have no issue with what you are doing even though I dont like much of your suggestions. My point was dont use bugs etc to try to make a point. You will lose credibility and then people may miss the actual good stuff you would like implemented. My problem is far too many are saying wait and see, I know that is something they may regret asking for trust me as a CPM. I understand your concerns and that as a member of the CPM you want to help out, but as a member of the CPM you also have the responsibility of taking the needs of your constituents into account. If the majority wish to take the "wait-n-see" approach, then so be it. I think you may need to take a quick tour around what the other CPMs are saying about the election and the next CPM and think about it. This is not about the election right now. We're talking about cloaks. I thought you'd read more into it, I thought wrong. Just if you figure it out keep it to yourself. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6410	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:34:00 - [207] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I thought you'd read more into it, I thought wrong. Just if you figure it out keep it to yourself. I have no clue what you mean by that, so here is a video of a Vocaloid OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
mollerz Minja Scouts 1810	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:14:00 - [208] - Quote ooh now it's cloak.. and dagger blah blah past bugs.. blah shotgun blast boat horns and clown honks.. blah blah.. secret squirrelly CPM reasons.. blah blah. Ok. This little exercise in prenerfing is a fail.. let me just mention ****** on your behalf, IWS, and finalize it. EDIT: that link is cool. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12006	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:35:00 - [209] - Quote mollerz wrote: ooh now it's cloak.. and dagger blah blah past bugs.. blah shotgun blast boat horns and clown honks.. blah blah.. secret squirrelly CPM reasons.. blah blah. Ok. This little exercise in prenerfing is a fail.. let me just mention ****** on your behalf, IWS, and finalize it. EDIT: that link is cool. Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
mollerz Minja Scouts 1812	Posted - 2014.01.13 02:45:00 - [210] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: ooh now it's cloak.. and dagger blah blah past bugs.. blah shotgun blast boat horns and clown honks.. blah blah.. secret squirrelly CPM reasons.. blah blah. Ok. This little exercise in prenerfing is a fail.. let me just mention **** on your behalf, IWS, and finalize it. EDIT: that link is cool. Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. mollerz wrote:** I thought you'd "read more into it" So if you want to invalidate how a bug which is functionally similar to the suggested cloak, then by means any other game reference on cloaks, as well as external gameplay factors should also be invalid. A far safer approach is to not introduce killerbee flaylock 2.0 on the grounds that this may not see adjustment for ungodly amounts of time. Remember the previous roadmap nearly officially over and monthly patches may no longer be a thing. Overpowered objects have no room in this game, not for a month, not for two months, not for a half year, and certainly not for a year or a decade as it is in eve's case. I don't know how you expect us to take your reasoning seriously when you are using scare tactics along the lines of the new unreleased cloak behaving like a game breaking bug. Sorry man. The jig is up, this is nothing more than sucker bait to get your claws in and make cloaks useless. GG but only fools would fall for it, and you're only going to get backed up by those who will lose the most from it's introduction. Your politics are almost good, but way too transparent. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12008	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:21:00 - [211] - Quote mollerz wrote: I don't know how you expect us to take your reasoning seriously when you are using scare tactics along the lines of the new unreleased cloak behaving like a game breaking bug. Sorry man. The jig is up, this is nothing more than sucker bait to get your claws in and make cloaks useless. GG but only fools would fall for it, and you're only going to get backed up by those who will lose the most from it's introduction. Your politics are almost good, but way too transparent. Scare Tactics or not; This does go beyond politics, this goes beyond the elections, this goes beyond me trying to do good or bad by the community, but I am doing do things for a reason, I would normally not fight this hard for changes against such opposition. Wait and See is an extraordinary terrible mistake in this case given the possible nature of the next patch. You claim I am transparant, I swear to you I cannot be as CPM I am disallowed this on many factors. You are reading me entirely wrong, you are pre-notioned into a bias, and you're close minded to what is going on around on the entire field of development, play, and politics. I doubt I can stop cloaks from entering the game in the same manner I couldn't stop the contact grenades and I am left with few alternatives. Ultimately I see the new scout bonuses as a pure insult. I see the cloaks as a possible game killer as it will generate excessively far poorer counter play than the active scanner will. Top this on the matters ahead in the future, this immensely exacerbates the issues well above and beyond normal. The truth of my actions will be made clear, I am however anticipating by the time it does it be too late to fix cloaks and I for want do not want to squader my time being idle and reactive. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6411	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:34:00 - [212] - Quote That Escalated Quickly OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 625	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:21:00 - [213] - Quote Whether we are on weekly monthly or quarterly updates the game can be updated any downtime for small things and any Tuesday for things that have to be QC by Sony. To say that something will go decades being OP in Dust is pretty funny because going on past instances you get a couple of months and then it is rendered useless unless its name is rifle. Dial back the drama and how about you Kain and Hans present a combined effort that represents the core of what you guys think is best but obviously with some points that reflect what the forum would like to see. In your blind spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12009	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:47:00 - [214] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Whether we are on weekly monthly or quarterly updates the game can be updated any downtime for small things and any Tuesday for things that have to be QC by Sony. To say that something will go decades being OP in Dust is pretty funny because going on past instances you get a couple of months and then it is rendered useless unless its name is rifle. Dial back the drama and how about you Kain and Hans present a combined effort that represents the core of what you guys think is best but obviously with some points that reflect what the forum would like to see. Hans wants it gone and used a large variety of synonyms that are equating to bad idea but on an epic scale. Kain's and Nova's anti-combat cloak stance was pretty clear in the petition Jenza if I ever catch her not talking about her boat will probably agree that the cloak shouldn't be a combat tool. Cazderon will likely say something in french again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1289	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:51:00 - [215] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: mollerz wrote: I don't know how you expect us to take your reasoning seriously when you are using scare tactics along the lines of the new unreleased cloak behaving like a game breaking bug. Sorry man. The jig is up, this is nothing more than sucker bait to get your claws in and make cloaks useless. GG but only fools would fall for it, and you're only going to get backed up by those who will lose the most from it's introduction. Your politics are almost good, but way too transparent. Scare Tactics or not; This does go beyond politics, this goes beyond the elections, this goes beyond me trying to do good or bad by the community, but I am doing do things for a reason, I would normally not fight this hard for changes against such opposition. Wait and See is an extraordinary terrible mistake in this case given the possible nature of the next patch. You claim I am transparant, I swear to you I cannot be as CPM I am disallowed this on many factors. You are reading me entirely wrong, you are pre-notioned into a bias, and you're close minded to what is going on around on the entire field of development, play, and politics. I doubt I can stop cloaks from entering the game in the same manner I couldn't stop the contact grenades and I am left with few alternatives. Ultimately I see the new scout bonuses as a pure insult. I see the cloaks as a possible game killer as it will generate excessively far poorer counter play than the active scanner will. Top this on the matters ahead in the future, this immensely exacerbates the issues well above and beyond normal. The truth of my actions will be made clear, I am however anticipating by the time it does it be too late to fix cloaks and I for want do not want to squader my time being idle and reactive. IWS You may see the new scout bonuses as an insultGÇª but please try to remember that the rest of us really don't know everything that you do. The CPM are reacting and starting conversations about this because you feel strongly about it, this is great. But the fact that the rest of us do not know many of the information that the CPM does means that their is a disparity in what we are able to see. We could just go with the assurances given by the CPM that it is not good, but really I think many of us are more critical thinkers than that, and those that aren't just are not trusting after the perceived deceptions, misinformation and assumptions of the past. (that and most of us are paranoid) It has been stated that we would have time to discuss many things before an update went through Here CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah... gotta love those BSD updates. We were planning to release the bundled up stats for 1.8 changes next week (2nd sprint ends next week) so that we had plenty of time to get feedback from everyone and implement any necessary changes. Too many specific issues to address (otherwise I'd be posting all day and not getting any actual authoring work done) but please keep in mind that everything on SiSi is not final. That doesn't mean that they will change, only that they can. There's plenty of time to provide constructive criticism and for us to act on that feedback. Do you think that we will actually have the opportunity to discuss the information once we are all have the same intel? Right now I think that due to the NDA, it makes for a lot of suspicion about what is happening, couple that with the level of passion of opinion in the matter and we don't really have fair or balanced discussion on the matter. (essentially the CPM may have jumped the gun on public chatter over this, and I understand why you folks have been itching to discuss this, I know that I would be too) KRRROOOOOOM
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12009	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:59:00 - [216] - Quote To be honest I don't know what we will have time for. There are quite a few things that need to have light shed on them and when they do come out cloaks may get drowned out entirely until patch day. I was not kidding when I said 2014 is going to be an interesting year for Dust 514, and that CPM 1's own term would easily surpass 0's plate breaking. Whole reason why majority of the CPM is not seeking re-election. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1289	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:18:00 - [217] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To be honest I don't know what we will have time for. There are quite a few things that need to have light shed on them and when they do come out cloaks may get drowned out entirely until patch day. I was not kidding when I said 2014 is going to be an interesting year for Dust 514, and that CPM 1's own term would easily surpass 0's plate breaking. Whole reason why majority of the CPM is not seeking re-election. I am fairly certain that the scout community will vocalize on cloaks, and many in that community (if not most) do not want to have to rely on cloaks, nor be forced into a role. So I doubt that discussion on it will be drowned out, though I have no idea how much other big **** will drop at that time, so I could be wrong. CPM does not seem like much fun to me KRRROOOOOOM
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 374	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:56:00 - [218] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. I want to make it fun for both cloaker and stalked or hunters. Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. Suggested forced deactivation range 1.5 meters. Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. i beleive the proximty to hackable objects needs to be out right removed , possibly make stealth hacks longer to account for this as i beleive that could be the most practicale role of stealth suits remove the deactivate on weapon/equipment switch but make placing/firng count as disruptive timer action. both audible notification and delay when switching would be crippling to this mechanic Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12010	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:51:00 - [219] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To be honest I don't know what we will have time for. There are quite a few things that need to have light shed on them and when they do come out cloaks may get drowned out entirely until patch day. I was not kidding when I said 2014 is going to be an interesting year for Dust 514, and that CPM 1's own term would easily surpass 0's plate breaking. Whole reason why majority of the CPM is not seeking re-election. I am fairly certain that the scout community will vocalize on cloaks, and many in that community (if not most) do not want to have to rely on cloaks, nor be forced into a role. So I doubt that discussion on it will be drowned out, though I have no idea how much other big **** will drop at that time, so I could be wrong. CPM does not seem like much fun to me Its not fun that is for certain and yes there is a likely chance that whatever is going to get discussed this year will drown quite a few things out. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked


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