DUST Search - Re: Cloaks

mollerz wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument B00LSHITE I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit.

My scout expert fixes in bold. Pirate

Fitting

Cloaks must remain equipment. - Ok fine.
Must be difficult to fit. - OK.
Is CPU Intensive - Why not, what isn't for a scout.
Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) - Cool.
Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots - OK fine.

Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) - BOOLSHITE. mostly. repair, damage I agree. nanohives and supply depot yes you remain cloaked.
Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down - Example?
A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - BOOLSHITE. Why not make the whole thing out of bells and tin cans. F stealth right?
Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun - WHAT!? That is so .. just bad. lame. Are we breaking the sonic boom? Why? Defeats stealth. NO.
Cloaks have an endurance time- Better be long as ****.
Cloaks have a cooldown time- ok. But skill based.
Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)- You mean involuntarily deactivated?
Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. -OK. Skill based tho.
Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - WHAT?! B00LSHITE. If contact is made ok.
Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. - SAME AS ABOVE B00LSHITE. IF they shoot you or melee you or contact you OK.
Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. - OUT OF THE BOX B00LSHITE.
Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - If contact is made.
Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. - B00LSHITE. Contact.
Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)- As long as scout's meter is long and strong.
Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. - Hmm... well.. B00LSHITE.
Can climb ladders while cloaked- Of Course.
Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. - Only if turned off via very easy and only on purpose. Nothing accidental due to ****** wheel mechanics.
Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. - um Ok.

No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. NOPE.
Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. NOPE.

With regards to RE- what is the difference? Usually a scout is across the map doing something else when he detonates. The first shot, melee, or knife charge/slahs will pop a cloak. Not raising a weapon.

Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.- NOPE. Why hamstring it? Sandbox it.You even contradict yourself in the next two suggestions
Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) - Sure why not?
Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. - Ok.
Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) - GET BETTER EXAMPLES.

This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe.

You should wait for that then cause this list is pfffrghrgtt.. a heavy full diaper.


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Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:31:00 - [1] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument B00LSHITE I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit. My scout expert fixes in bold. Fitting Cloaks must remain equipment. - Ok fine. Must be difficult to fit. - OK. Is CPU Intensive - Why not, what isn't for a scout. Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher) - Cool. Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots - OK fine. Usage Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh]) - BOOLSHITE. mostly. repair, damage I agree. nanohives and supply depot yes you remain cloaked. Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down - Example? A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.) - BOOLSHITE. Why not make the whole thing out of bells and tin cans. F stealth right? Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun - WHAT!? That is so .. just bad. lame. Are we breaking the sonic boom? Why? Defeats stealth. NO. Cloaks have an endurance time- Better be long as **. Cloaks have a cooldown time- ok. But skill based. Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)- You mean involuntarily deactivated? Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight. -OK. Skill based tho. Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects. - WHAT?! B00LSHITE. If contact is made ok. Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry. - SAME AS ABOVE B00LSHITE. IF they shoot you or melee you or contact you OK. Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates. - OUT OF THE BOX B00LSHITE. Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked. - If contact is made. Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters. - B00LSHITE. Contact. Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)- As long as scout's meter is long and strong. Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support. - Hmm... well.. B00LSHITE. Can climb ladders while cloaked- Of Course. Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout. - Only if turned off via very easy and only on purpose. Nothing accidental due to **** wheel mechanics. Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout. - um Ok. Weapons No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon. NOPE. Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives. NOPE. With regards to RE- what is the difference? Usually a scout is across the map doing something else when he detonates. The first shot, melee, or knife charge/slahs will pop a cloak. Not raising a weapon. Meta Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.- NOPE. Why hamstring it? Sandbox it.You even contradict yourself in the next two suggestions Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example) - Sure why not? Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks. - Ok. Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp) - GET BETTER EXAMPLES. This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe. You should wait for that then cause this list is pfffrghrgtt.. a heavy full diaper. I just quoted it because a single like wasn't enough
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:12:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Quote: --SNIP -- Re: Cloak while speed healing : This was done to prevent stealthers from tanking while remaining invisible. Mostly for vehicles though and heavier infantry from just getting repped tool back up while being difficult to hit. Why wasn't this stated in the first place Re: Active Modules : once again mostly vehicles, this however does apply to infantry in case a second module like the cloak is added like some sort of berserker or hulk mode. Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g I don't think you understood the video, please watch or re-watch 2:10 - 2:50. Counter-play is about giving theOPPONENT options to counter a tactic or strategy(i.e. scanners, safety in numbers) NOT gimping to the brink of uselessness. Re: Noise Range : Shotgun noise range is pretty low actually; and just because you're invisible does not make you heard, ethereal, or unobservable of other physics involved such as the foot pad noise you're going to make while landing after a jump or the noise you make climbing a ladder. Conversely, cloaking should you magically make you louder? Re: Cooldown and Disruption Timer : Cooldown is when the player ended the cloak himself or cloak runs out on its own. Disruption + cooldown is when the player's cloak is broken by outside forces such as nearby power sources shorting it out, or weapons fire. Thus this becomes a cloak operator concern. I can see skills playing into how long disruption time is (like 10% reduction per cloak level) Cooldown is a short breather similar to that of a stamina and one shouldn't have to wait too long to reactivate if the cooldown was player purposed, disruptions are however much longer and should last as long as an engagement window normally for scouts. 1. We don't know how exactly the cooldown mechanic works, because if it works like vehicles modules were cooldown cooldown is independant of active duration. Then no, that's punishing the cloak operator twice. 2. If it's like heat buildup system used on hybrid weapons then it's understandable Re: Decloak range to power sources. It may be possible to change the distances for each, the idea is to prevent camping, and using these objects as means of crosshair camo. As for infantry contact range is immensely short in this game and most of the time neither party can reliably hit each other at that range. Re: Vehicle call down, someone already pointed it would be abused to hell by dedicated pilots to call down vehicles safely without getting shot. How is this any different from standing hidden in cover then sprinting into the vehicle as soon as it lands? Re: Deactivation on purpose; wheel needs fixing, especially considering you can still order squads while cloaked >< Re: Other stuff usage; You only have two hands and you're holding down the cloak button basically while running around. There are these things with two positions, usu. on/off called switches. Re: This was inferring to cloaks itself going up in metas it should never boil down to one getting a prototype level cloack and be able to approach a hostile player in his field of view and pop him in the head with a shotgun. I believe that is the point of shimmer Re: Better Examples ; Open ears.