How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak?

How about first, you stop advocating nerfing the cloak?

It's a minor nerf meant to protect the cloak. Just like how knives came pre nerfed and were later buffed. Pre nerfed tools have a higher likelihood of avoiding over nerfs than normal tools. Remember the flay lock, laser rifles, and mass drivers? Those came in as normal but later ended up overly nerfed.

A pre nerf is something that is still practical and useful but doesn't draw the attention of the "QQers". In fact, these have a higher likelihood of getting buffs later down the road. The knives came pre nerfed but later got buffed.

Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit.

Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second?

As it stands, there are people right now who fear the very existence of the cloak itself and don't want it in the game in general. If it came pre nerfed, it would allow players to get comfortable with it and try it out to see if it needs a buff (often times it does). This way, the cloak will be tuned up to the levels you like without causing much ire in the forum.

Why dont you bring something to the table instead of flipping it every second?

Kind of an backwards way to approach something. I can't see getting behind that kind of thinking.

EDIT: This is Maken before he got jedi mind tricked by med frames

So what happened, Mak?

It's called being flexible and adapting. I'm not always a hardliner like people expect. Maybe I'm a hardliner when it comes to respecs but not on other things.

I have. I thought you read this forum top to bottom?

Whatever it was; it did not warrant my attention long enough.

Continuing on with the conversation.

Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it.

I'm shocked by your disregard for the rest of the scouting community's feelings on this. I thought you were more balanced than being rolled over by some med frames.

Whatever it was; it did not warrant my attention long enough.

Continuing on with the conversation.

Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it.

I am taking into consideration the feelings of scout community here. Us scouts have suffered enough as it is. I just don't want the QQers to have any more reason to nerf more things and we all know how dangerous CCP can be with a nerf bat when they get influenced by the loudest QQers out there (think of a drunk Thor at a bar fight... not pretty). I have seen the impact these type of players made when HMGs and HAVs first got nerfed. Then the Mass Driver got nerfed badly followed by the Flay Lock Pistol and the Dropships. It was QQ everywhere. Hell, there was QQ even for ARs of all things. Basically, if it killed you, it got the nerf bat. Only the knives were spared. It was sad. It still is sad.

I just don't want the cloak to be "OK" on day one followed by the General Discussion forums being flooded with "NERF CLOAK", "REMOVE CLOAK", "CLOAK IS OP", "WHAT IS THIS, HARRY POTTER? NERF CLOAK", etc., etc., etc. then a month later we end up with a gimped cloak that is so useless we might as well just forget about it.

You know what? Forget it. Forget all of my ideas and recommendations. Now that I think about it, QQers will just QQ anyways. I'll just let CCP throw the cloak as they like into the game and then just wait for the QQ as I eat popcorn. QQers seem to have so much influence nowadays.

You are inventing coding issues that don't exist. I'm not one to fall for that kind of stuff. Bring it back to being a sandbox game, as you are want to say.

I'm pretty sure nobody said it's a coding issue.

The problem is that releasing something new is almost always going to have it slightly off from perfect balance.

If you allow it to be OP, then it's going to be nerfed, and everyone knows CCP over-nerf when something looks OP. You can look at almost every example of a nerf in DUST for evidence of that. Breach ARs way back in closed beta, Tac ARs more recently, HAVs when they were OP and got nerfed so hard that high-end shield tanks had to run from Militia Swarms, Flaylocks, etc, etc, etc.

If they make sure the cloak is released SLIGHTLY underpowered - I agree the proposal currently appearing is probably more of a "pre-nerf" than we should be aiming for - then it will be first in line for buffs when CCP are reviewing things and see very few people using it, and the ones who do having only limited success.

It isn't a matter of CODING. It's a matter of CCP's approach to development and trying to fix problems. People are trying to work around CCP's inherent inability to nerf things properly by forcing them to buff what needs fixing instead.

A better solution would be to keep calling CCP out on their draconian over-nerfing until they ACTUALLY START LISTENING.

When a lot of people are screaming loudly on the forums that something is broken and OP, that means a lot of people are noticing it's OP. It doesn't necessarily mean that the item in question is so horrifically OP that it needs 20% reductions in capability across almost every aspect of its functionality.

CCP seem to understand how to incrementally buff something by improving one or two aspects in small increments, but when they nerf, they hit EVERYTHING that made the item in question useful.

Other than forced proximity deactivation (not really necessary with a noise + firing delay) you have basically exactly described Planetside 2 cloaks, which imho are probably one of the best balanced cloaks in gaming. Their duration/recharge/limitations are almost exactly right.

Not much of a coding issue, just having something easier to buff when the rule state not only exists but can be something done over a hot patch instead of waiting for a monthly patch. This takes time, planning and creates what is known as technical debt, things that need to be done to be done and rather working on the next patches contents they're now hurdled down and doing rework over something that should have been done the first go around.

Also these days I can't wait for things to be in the game to see then have it nerfed, not with the upcoming schedule of how things are going to be soon. Remember our old roadmap is coming to an end and nobody around publically knows exactly what the new road map has in store yet.

Knowing CCP it is far far far easier to ask for a buff than a nerf. It is far easier to get these hooks and mechanics in so they can work with other things in the future instead of having to go back reprogram it and recreate a new technical hurdle to nerf it.

Roll back mechanics and alternate functions can (and should) be programmed during the development cycle, as a standard for software development activities. They doesn't mean then need to be implemented immediately.



...really? So you can't wait to see how things function in game before making a knee jerk reaction to it? Nice. I look forward to your nerf threads for the proposed changes to dropsuits.

I'll say the same thing to you I've said to Kain.

Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use.

If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it.

@Garret Blacknova That's inferring coding problems that don't exist as a reason for making a shogun blast level noise when you decloak. All this theorization about prenerfing in order to barely not get nerfed or massively nerfed.. OR OR? Think of the logis for god sake man!?

GTFO with that nonsense.

I invite you to take a stroll through all of the SDE and try to think how ccp thinks, you'll see the level atrocities they do commit currently. http://pct-gritb.rhcloud.com/sde/class

Just preliminaries that logis are going to out cloak scouts. Even worse the active scanner is supposively going to be the anti-cloaking tool, guess who has two equipment slots to do both?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1708873#post1708873

The 1.5m forced deactivation range isn't actually bad- my knife kills tend to be at about 2m.

So basically, forced deactivation would just be if you bumped into a red.