Assuming no changes to scanners, no need to have cloaks change a profile size as scout can hide even from proto scanner.

That's still up in the air at the moment. SiSi indicates we are going to lose our scan profile bonus (except for the Gallente scout) and there is no news on whether or not our base scan profile is being reduced to compensate. Not to mention scouts are going to have to severely gimp their fits to avoid a proto scanner used by a gal logi with their new bonus.

Now you're talking about stuff that doesn't exist and most likely wont exist for the years to come.

Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit.

Fitting

• Cloaks must remain equipment.
• Must be difficult to fit.
• Is CPU Intensive
• Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher)
• Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots

Usage

• Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh])
• Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down
• A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.)
• Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun
• Cloaks have an endurance time
• Cloaks have a cooldown time
• Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)
• Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight.
• Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects.
• Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry.
• Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates.
• Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked.
• Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters.
• Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)
• Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support.
• Can climb ladders while cloaked
• Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout.
• Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout.

Weapons

• No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon.
• Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives.

Meta

• Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.
• Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example)
• Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks.
• Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp)

This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe.

Re: Cloak while speed healing : This was done to prevent stealthers from tanking while remaining invisible. Mostly for vehicles though and heavier infantry from just getting repped tool back up while being difficult to hit.

Why wasn't this stated in the first place


Re: Active Modules : once again mostly vehicles, this however does apply to infantry in case a second module like the cloak is added like some sort of berserker or hulk mode.

Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

I don't think you understood the video, please watch or re-watch 2:10 - 2:50. Counter-play is about giving theOPPONENT options to counter a tactic or strategy(i.e. scanners, safety in numbers) NOT gimping to the brink of uselessness.

Re: Noise Range : Shotgun noise range is pretty low actually; and just because you're invisible does not make you heard, ethereal, or unobservable of other physics involved such as the foot pad noise you're going to make while landing after a jump or the noise you make climbing a ladder.

Conversely, cloaking should you magically make you louder?


Re: Cooldown and Disruption Timer : Cooldown is when the player ended the cloak himself or cloak runs out on its own. Disruption + cooldown is when the player's cloak is broken by outside forces such as nearby power sources shorting it out, or weapons fire. Thus this becomes a cloak operator concern. I can see skills playing into how long disruption time is (like 10% reduction per cloak level) Cooldown is a short breather similar to that of a stamina and one shouldn't have to wait too long to reactivate if the cooldown was player purposed, disruptions are however much longer and should last as long as an engagement window normally for scouts.

1. We don't know how exactly the cooldown mechanic works, because if it works like vehicles modules were cooldown cooldown is independant of active duration. Then no, that's punishing the cloak operator twice.
2. If it's like heat buildup system used on hybrid weapons then it's understandable

Re: Decloak range to power sources. It may be possible to change the distances for each, the idea is to prevent camping, and using these objects as means of crosshair camo. As for infantry contact range is immensely short in this game and most of the time neither party can reliably hit each other at that range.

Re: Vehicle call down, someone already pointed it would be abused to hell by dedicated pilots to call down vehicles safely without getting shot.

How is this any different from standing hidden in cover then sprinting into the vehicle as soon as it lands?

Re: Deactivation on purpose; wheel needs fixing, especially considering you can still order squads while cloaked ><

Re: Other stuff usage; You only have two hands and you're holding down the cloak button basically while running around.

There are these things with two positions, usu. on/off called switches.

Re: This was inferring to cloaks itself going up in metas it should never boil down to one getting a prototype level cloack and be able to approach a hostile player in his field of view and pop him in the head with a shotgun.

I believe that is the point of shimmer

Re: Better Examples ; Open ears.

Re: Noise level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

.

Well, a not so quick bullet list since I keep getting bombarded on twitter. Please do debate points, if it's good enough argument I can see about adjusting and you also get to understand the bullet point a bit.

Fitting

• Cloaks must remain equipment.
• Must be difficult to fit.
• Is CPU Intensive
• Scout suits bonus should be high enough they can go full standard loadout with all other module slots. (this may mean the bonus might have to go much higher)
• Higher tier Commando, Lights, Mediums, Assaults, and Logistics would have to downgrade modules to fill all slots

Usage

• Cannot activate while HP values are changing due to external factors (repair tools, damage, nano-hives, supply depots [veh])
• Cannot activate as long as another active module is cycling, or cooling down
• A distinctive noise must accompany the cloak and decloak and has proximity priority in playing (in an even max number of sound channels are used, for example you're in a nanohive nest in a middle of a fire fight, the decloak sound still still play but you may not notice it still due to the other noises but it was played regardless.)
• Cloak sound range is similar to that of a shotgun
• Cloaks have an endurance time
• Cloaks have a cooldown time
• Cloaks have a disrupted time (that if cloak is involuntarily activated this is a penalized cooldown before regular starts)
• Cooldown can remain relatively short, while the disrupted time must be significantly long enough for a fire fight.
• Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects.
• Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry.
• Because of the enemy proximity disruption meleeing will not break cloak because you cannot get near enough to melee another player before it deactivates.
• Cloaks might be forcibly deactivated by proximity to other friendly players even if they are cloaked.
• Suggested forced deactivation range 2 meters.
• Stressed movements could drain the cloak faster (anything that consumes stamina)
• Can issue squad commands, but not be able to call in vehicles or use orbital support.
• Can climb ladders while cloaked
• Cloaks are easily deactivatable on purpose by either turning on another module or swapping to another equipment or weapon, decloaking animation will finish first and cause a short delay between the start of turning visible and being able to take action with the new item selected and this does not cause the disruption timeout.
• Expired cloaks do not cause disruption timeout.

Weapons

• No guns, no firing from cloaked, must deactivate then swap, the swap is going to be slightly delayed, if forcibly deactivated will swap to last used weapon.
• Cannot use other equipment or activate other equipment such as remote explosives.

Meta

• Cloak progression should focus on cooldown or duration but not thresholds in shimmer or lowering the condition to which cloaks are disadvantaged.
• Cloak variants can play around with play trade off with how fast, how long, and shimmer limitation or even fitting (a lightweight fit cloak that is purely utter crap for example)
• Scout progression should focus on stealthing, damage, speed, sensors, fleeting tanks (high regen short endurance), hacking even but should only very lightly touch on cloaking bonuses. This prevents scouts from being shoe horned into MUST fitting cloaks.
• Examples Gal (Light Damage or Profile) Cal (Sensor range or Sensor Strength) Min (Sidearm damage or Hacking) Amarr (speed or base hp)

This of course is working under the assumption that there will be no changes to the scanners and that cloaks might reduce the suit sig by half maybe.

Im trying to get rid of cloaking bonuses on scouts to be honest, Scouts should be viable without them.

ccp ban Iron Wolf Saber for posting stupid ****.

From CCP Remnant

- The cloak field is a piece of equipment.
- When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it.
- Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked.
- You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it.
- Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire.
- Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge.
- Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you)
- You can only fit one cloak field at a time.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530

No, this is a good thing (though I'm not liking his cloak attributes). He doesn't mean not having a fitting bonus (that is needed along with reductions to other E-War-ish equipment) but all or multiple scouts having racial scout bonuses to cloaks is bad because it shoehorns them into using the cloak which gravely limits the versatility of the scouts.

Soooo if I'm a scout.. I cloak..and run over a hive I lose cloak? Or newbie greifing logibro trys to rep me and I lose cloak?

And Logistics bonus would need changing too, because otherwise they're probably going to be more capable of using cloaks than scouts, thanks to the equipment fitting reduction, and their inherently higher base fitting stats, as well as surplus slots that can be used for fitting mods.

Cloaks are forcibly deactivated by proximity to hackable objects such as vehicles, consoles, and OMS objects.
Cloaks may be forcibly deactivated by proximity to hostile infantry.

That cloak is more suitable to a twitch shooting lobby

dust 514's lightly more tactical pace.

I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed.

TF2 is a high reflex shooter aka twitch shooting. The style implemented requires extremely fast reflexes to counter and deal with which is nearly a world apart form dust 514's lightly more tactical pace.

soon dust will be a twitch shooting lool look at the new assault rof bonus .

I have a problem with these points. It's already enough that I would be required to decloak first anyways in order to fire a weapon or hack an objective. But to be forcibly decloak just because of proximity is too much of a nerf especially considering the nature of CQC scouts like me. Cloaks will be practically useless for me if this kind of limit is imposed.