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What if... Logis couldn't use light weapons?

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Mia Romani Nexus Marines 28	Posted - 2013.11.11 14:36:00 - [1] - Quote Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Interstellar Crossroads
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 782	Posted - 2013.11.11 14:37:00 - [2] - Quote Please Don't. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Harpyja Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 758	Posted - 2013.11.11 14:48:00 - [3] - Quote Terrible idea. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 28	Posted - 2013.11.11 14:52:00 - [4] - Quote Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Interstellar Crossroads
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 782	Posted - 2013.11.11 14:55:00 - [5] - Quote I don't use ARs. Im not willing to give up my Plasma Cannon+Scanner+Hives+Repair Tool. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 28	Posted - 2013.11.11 15:00:00 - [6] - Quote That's kinda my point. Doesn't that strike as you ridiculously better than anything an Assault suit could come up with? Interstellar Crossroads
Hecarim Van Hohen Unkn0wn Killers 232	Posted - 2013.11.11 15:31:00 - [7] - Quote Leave the dead horse alone, it has been beaten enough already. D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
Kaylee Veloc ShootBreakStab 17	Posted - 2013.11.11 15:32:00 - [8] - Quote I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles (Assault, AV etc) even on the frontline providing said support when it is needed not hanging around drinking tea untill it is time to lay an uplink, provide repairs, use a needle or what have you because their ability to fight is reduced. They need to be just as combat effective as other troops. If a logi is using any of the available equipment as well as killing enemys they are still doing their job and supporting the squad, team. Of course that is not set in stone as this game is still billed as sandbox and it's up to the player how they want to fit or run their suit aswell. Basically there is no right or wrong way because it is choice and opinion. Personally I carry a nano hive, repair tool and active scanner on my adv Logi, still being able to provide effective firepower and replenish ammo, armour and give intel when the squad needs it. I also play adv Assault just as much as my Logi if not more so don't dismiss this as bias please. If you think the Assault class or any other is lack luster try coming up with ways to more define their role instead.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1172	Posted - 2013.11.11 15:47:00 - [9] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? very simply... give the assault suits a passive 10% dmg boost with all weapons. problem solved. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Cosgar ParagonX 7664	Posted - 2013.11.11 17:07:00 - [10] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations 56	Posted - 2013.11.11 17:15:00 - [11] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles. U.S. Marine medics are U.S. Navy Corpmen. They train as medical personnel before being assigned to a marine unit, if they are to be a Marine medic. So, what you said is not always the case.
Ferindar Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 75	Posted - 2013.11.11 17:50:00 - [12] - Quote Real Life has nothing to do with this game. The problem with slayer-logis is that there's no real benefits to being Assault (Unless you're going Amarr with Laser/Scrambler). Personally, I use a logi suit for my sniper, because I have more PG/CPU, can fit a few more and better nano-hives than a standard, and the passive armor repair is nice for when I get dinged by another shot, I can recover while moving to a new location. I do sacrifice a bit of movement speed and EHP, but those tradeoffs are pretty small compared to the perks. Why not give Assaults similar perks, aside from faster reload times. Have you seen the clip size? Nobody reloads in an active firefight unless they're using Mass Drivers. *I am the middle finger of God. You may call me a Sniper.*
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 922	Posted - 2013.11.11 18:07:00 - [13] - Quote Real life asside, since it has absolutely no bearing on what makes a video game fun, I think that the idea of giving logi only a side-arm slot is actually a great one. Logi's get the vast majority of their points from their equipment so this switch will not drastically affect their WP earning potential. Additionally having no light weapon will force logis into more of a support role but they will still be combat capable, a full proto smg is a scary thing. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 481	Posted - 2013.11.11 18:14:00 - [14] - Quote only iff you increase the range of sidearms on logi suits to compensate. must match AR range just to be fair :) Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
843 nerfnut96 BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 156	Posted - 2013.11.11 18:33:00 - [15] - Quote I think this will sum up my opinion pretty well (all though the other guys suggestion was more extreme it falls in the same category), if you have any further questions let me know. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1423708#post1423708 Capt. Nerfnut96
Cosgar ParagonX 7669	Posted - 2013.11.11 18:58:00 - [16] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: only iff you increase the range of sidearms on logi suits to compensate. must match AR range just to be fair :) Unerf the flaylock I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 470	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:09:00 - [17] - Quote y not just make the fully fitted logi suit weaker than the fully fitted assault suit of the same tier? for all tiers levels.
Cosgar ParagonX 7669	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:14:00 - [18] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: y not just make the fully fitted logi suit weaker than the fully fitted assault suit of the same tier? for all tiers levels. Because they already are. Assaults have better base stats and a sidearm over logis, take less SP/ISK to use and can use a better variety of weapons. Logis get a bit more CPU/PG and equipment at the cost of base stats and a sidearm, but get one more module slot at prototype over assaults. (Except the CaLogi, which gets 2) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1973	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:15:00 - [19] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... Wow this would actually be pretty cool. If we lost weapons and could do this I wouldn't mind. Sentry guns! "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 381	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:56:00 - [20] - Quote Buff assaults by giving them passive damage bonuses to weapons (as mentioned above) or two grenade slots.

KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1369	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:04:00 - [21] - Quote You're all deluded. Get a proto suit of both the logi and assault, from the same race, then you'll see that nothing is that out of balance. The only thing that needs fixing is the class bonuses, and some of the racial bonuses like the CAL logi, + 2% effectiveness to shield regulators???? I'd suggst fitting bonus for all logi suits for equipment, and fitting bonuses for assaults for light weapons and sidearms. End. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Evolution-7 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 160	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:07:00 - [22] - Quote KingBabar wrote: You're all deluded. Get a proto suit of both the logi and assault, from the same race, then you'll see that nothing is that out of balance. The only thing that needs fixing is the class bonuses, and some of the racial bonuses like the CAL logi, + 2% effectiveness to shield regulators???? I'd suggst fitting bonus for all logi suits for equipment, and fitting bonuses for assaults for light weapons and sidearms. End. Agreed. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Cosgar ParagonX 7686	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:57:00 - [23] - Quote KingBabar wrote: You're all deluded. Get a proto suit of both the logi and assault, from the same race, then you'll see that nothing is that out of balance. The only thing that needs fixing is the class bonuses, and some of the racial bonuses like the CAL logi, + 2% effectiveness to shield regulators???? I'd suggst fitting bonus for all logi suits for equipment, and fitting bonuses for assaults for light weapons and sidearms. End. The way I see it, logis are so much different from basic medium suits compared to assaults, they're worth the prerequisite. Assaults aren't that much better than medium suits and some aren't even worth the SP sink. Make assaults better in their base stats compared to basic suits. It's not a logi problem, but an assault problem. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 121	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:43:00 - [24] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Small turrets Vs Light weapon ? I damn fcking agree !!!!! (I'm a Logi) Logi are for Support and Support fire. What else if we have small Turrets ? (Like Borderlands). They could use the AI of actuale turrets to make them work. We could have types of turrets for each Race. (Each type have STD/ADV/PRO.) Normal version :We can have 2 they have a big ammo pool (Bigger if Proto or Advanced even 2 at the same time if Proto):* Amarr : Shoots scramblers (Like scrambler assault) Mid range. => High durabiliy Armor / Shield => High RoF => Big so easy to shoot Caldari : Shoots Rail rifle (Like the future Rail rifle) => long range => High Shield Low Armor => Low RoF. Gallente : Shoots Plasma (Like tha Plasma rifle) => Short Range => High armor low shield => High RoF. Minmatarr : Shoots Bullets (Like SMG or HMG) => Short range => Low ehp => Really high RoF => Smaller (Harder to shoot). Heavy Version : Only one (2 at Proto level) low Ammo pool (Skills can make them more durable). Amarr : 2 Lasers Cannon (Like the lasers rifle but two of them) => Mid-Long Range (60) => High DPS => High resistance (at least 600eHp.) => But they Overheat if they fire too much. Caldari : Small Forge gun (150-200 of damage) => Low roF => Long range (75Meters) Gallente : 2 small Plasma Cannon : (250 of damage shoots twice but are easy to dodge and need a load time) => Short range (30 meters). Minmatarr : 1 small Mass driver (Damage ar the same as a mass driver but divided by twice.) => Mid range. Range : Start shooting when an ennemy is in sight AND in Range : Short Range : 0-15meters. Mid range : 0-25 Mid-Long : 5-35 (Don't shoot if too close) Long Range : 10-50
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1385	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:53:00 - [25] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Then the Amarr Logi's bonus (as in right now it is the only one with a sidearm) should be having a Light Weapon slot. Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. -Mark Twain :D
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1385	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:54:00 - [26] - Quote KingBabar wrote: You're all deluded. Get a proto suit of both the logi and assault, from the same race, then you'll see that nothing is that out of balance. The only thing that needs fixing is the class bonuses, and some of the racial bonuses like the CAL logi, + 2% effectiveness to shield regulators???? I'd suggst fitting bonus for all logi suits for equipment, and fitting bonuses for assaults for light weapons and sidearms. End. I got Advanced Amarr Assault, but with the Rifle Range changes, I'm not going any further. Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. -Mark Twain :D
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 475	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:04:00 - [27] - Quote What if... Assaults couldn't use Light weapons? Or how about, what if Assaults couldn't use Equipment? There is absolutely no reason to restrict someone to a sidearm at all. Proto MD Proto AR Proto Sniper Proto Logi Proto Nanos Proto Links ... Zero skills in Sidearms The what if, would amount to a RESPEC or the closing of all my Eve accounts and finding a new game (the cost of which would most likely be less than the combined total of cash spent on CCP products in one month). *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 482	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:11:00 - [28] - Quote what about remove wp from weapon kills for logi suits but remove equipment from all other suits. fair tradeoff Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Cash Gash 1 36 Infantry Battalion 23	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:19:00 - [29] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles (Assault, AV etc) even on the frontline providing said support when it is needed not hanging around drinking tea untill it is time to lay an uplink, provide repairs, use a needle or what have you because their ability to fight is reduced. They need to be just as combat effective as other troops. If a logi is using any of the available equipment as well as killing enemys they are still doing their job and supporting the squad, team. Of course that is not set in stone as this game is still billed as sandbox and it's up to the player how they want to fit or run their suit aswell. Basically there is no right or wrong way because it is choice and opinion. Personally I carry a nano hive, repair tool and active scanner on my adv Logi, still being able to provide effective firepower and replenish ammo, armour and give intel when the squad needs it. I also play adv Assault just as much as my Logi if not more so don't dismiss this as bias please. If you think the Assault class or any other is lack luster try coming up with ways to more define their role instead. What you say about combat medics is true and often my best friends BUT I can assure you I have never met a medic that can be as combat effective as me or my squad.... So in reality yes you do fight but you are not as effective as a dedicated infantryman (who also trains to do YOUR job but cannot do it as effective as you). So in New Eden "combat medics" should not be as combat effective or more OP then a dedicated assault class.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 475	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:26:00 - [30] - Quote Cash Gash wrote: What you say about combat medics is true and often my best friends BUT I can assure you I have never met a medic that can be as combat effective as me or my squad (served active duty as an infantryman).... So in reality yes you do fight but you are not as effective as a dedicated infantryman (who also trains to do YOUR job but cannot do it as effective as you). So in New Eden "combat medics" should not be as combat effective or more OP then a dedicated assault class. They aren't. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 90	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:06:00 - [31] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Buff the Assaults. Assault suit bonuses are terrible. If they had even vaguely reasonable benefits, they would immediately gain a lot of ground. Also, plenty of people use the AR because it is a simple enough weapon, not because it is the most overpowered weapon ever. Currently, it is by far the most abusable weapon due to it's accuracy, ROF and high damage with damn good range, but it has not always been the best option and nor will it remain so. I will continue to use my AR when the new rifles come out, as I will continue to use my MD.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3686	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:39:00 - [32] - Quote IMO, Logi's shouldn't be comparable in combat performance as Assaults - so all this "well, if you do that then they need a range buff" non-sense is just that. If you want to be a slayer, use Assault. If you want to be support, run Logistics. Only having a single light weapon slot isn't what one could called "balanced" when the Caldari Logi turns out a better armor tanker than a Gallente Assault. Passive HP bonus, same amount of lows, enough highs to stack damage mods -and- shield extenders and plenty of CPU/PG to boot. Just saying, they need to take a hit already. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Cash Gash 1 36 Infantry Battalion 23	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:41:00 - [33] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Cash Gash wrote: What you say about combat medics is true and often my best friends BUT I can assure you I have never met a medic that can be as combat effective as me or my squad (served active duty as an infantryman).... So in reality yes you do fight but you are not as effective as a dedicated infantryman (who also trains to do YOUR job but cannot do it as effective as you). So in New Eden "combat medics" should not be as combat effective or more OP then a dedicated assault class. They aren't. I would also like to point out that I have yet to see a description of Logistics suits as a "Combat Medic". In my time in Dust I have made many suits. Of which only a few have had either a repair tool or a nanite injector. Your classification of a logibro as a combat medic is insulting and truly uninformed. Check the list of equipment that a player can use if they skill into it. There are many more things than just healing that Logis can do well. In fact I believe it is your looking at the militia variant "Starter Assault-Medic" fitting that would seem to be the cause of the mistaken identity of a Logi being a medic. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that fit is on an Assault suit. Maybe we should be expecting Assaults to run injectors rather than guns? I was referring to them as combat medics because another logi user referred to them as that. Not at all what I was saying they are even though that is what they are; medics, engineers, mechanics, etc. They have an extra equipment slot therefor they are intended to be the ones using equipment. This is also laying down uplinks and what ever other uses and combos you can come up with. It just makes the assault suit pointless as they are basically the same stat wise and the assault suit bonuses are garbage in comparison to an extra equipment slot.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 924	Posted - 2013.11.12 04:58:00 - [34] - Quote We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Cosgar ParagonX 7699	Posted - 2013.11.12 05:02:00 - [35] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? If you nerf one class, there's a good chance that the other 5 are still going to suck. Commando is a PoS, but you don't see them crying for everyone else to be nerfed because their suit under performs. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 478	Posted - 2013.11.12 05:55:00 - [36] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? Come on, the assault bonus is able to make them more durable than a Logi, a better killer and also cheaper at the Proto level. Nerf Isk Loss on Proto Logi suits, and I may consider the request for an Assault buff a good idea. Anyone able to list off a Proto Slayer Minmatar Logi suit fitting please do so, I'm tired of having 15-40 assists and 1-10 kills. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:11:00 - [37] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Normalize base stats and high and low slots between assaults and logis. Change bonus to that of an equipment oriented one, instead of a free complex armor repper Done. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:15:00 - [38] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? Come on, the assault bonus is able to make them more durable than a Logi, a better killer and also cheaper at the Proto level. Nerf Isk Loss on Proto Logi suits, and I may consider the request for an Assault buff a good idea. Anyone able to list off a Proto Slayer Minmatar Logi suit fitting please do so, I'm tired of having 15-40 assists and 1-10 kills. Here Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Cosgar ParagonX 7702	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:24:00 - [39] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 479	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:25:00 - [40] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Normalize base stats and high and low slots between assaults and logis. Change bonus to that of an equipment oriented one, instead of a free complex armor repper Done. You sir are absolutely correct in that we need to normalize something, I suggest a bonus +5 HP/s per level of Logistics to normalize things. You want reps and ammo? Keep me alive. You want someone to scan for you or rez you? Keep me alive. You want someone to come along and hold your assault/heavy/scout hand while you kill people? Give us a way to do so, rather than making it one of the most expensive suits to run in the game while you are the ones benefiting from the nanohives, reps, rez and scans not to mention proxy mines and remote explosives. I apologize if this sounds like a bit of a rage but you seem to think that an Logi will survive in a situation where an Assault will not and it is not true. We have built in reps yes but it still takes time to rep armor and for those who shield tank a flux is next to lethal. This is true for all suits in the game, stop picking on the Logi like it is the Most Beefy, Most Supreme, Awesome, God-like suit that ever came along. Clearly if you think they are overpowered you are not a Logi sir. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*

Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:26:00 - [41] - Quote KingBabar wrote: You're all deluded. Get a proto suit of both the logi and assault, from the same race, then you'll see that nothing is that out of balance. The only thing that needs fixing is the class bonuses, and some of the racial bonuses like the CAL logi, + 2% effectiveness to shield regulators???? I'd suggst fitting bonus for all logi suits for equipment, and fitting bonuses for assaults for light weapons and sidearms. End. Looks at my last post Your a ***** ***. Given that speed tanking hasn't worked in the past 6 patches, and generally won't Ina FPS, the speed gap is basically from the LAV parking lot to the Obby, that is a negligible aspect, while gaining 300 HP, and losing a sidearm, which won't be needed in 1v1, or if you reload semifrequently. Pros- Tons of Equipment Huge HP Roughly comperable speed to a salt Cons- Marginally slower base speed Marginally less base HP No sidearm TBQH, why wouldn't you choose logi for your assault needs? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy*
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 481	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:31:00 - [42] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? Come on, the assault bonus is able to make them more durable than a Logi, a better killer and also cheaper at the Proto level. Nerf Isk Loss on Proto Logi suits, and I may consider the request for an Assault buff a good idea. Anyone able to list off a Proto Slayer Minmatar Logi suit fitting please do so, I'm tired of having 15-40 assists and 1-10 kills. Here Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. This coming from the same people who say they need ammo reps and rez from logis? Thats not a slayer fit it is a brick tha... *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:34:00 - [43] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. facepalm THATS THE ******* POINT You get heavy EHP with assault speed. Can you not see the freaking issue?! Gahdamn, muthathukker, stupid ass forums.. walks away from the computer But I mean, you REALLY don't think nothing is wrong with a suit having Heavy level EHP while maintaining the majority of its speed? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 482	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:40:00 - [44] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. facepalm THATS THE ******* POINT You get heavy EHP with assault speed. Can you not see the freaking issue?! Gahdamn, muthathukker, stupid ass forums.. walks away from the computer But I mean, you REALLY don't think nothing is wrong with a suit having Heavy level EHP while maintaining the majority of its speed? Clearly this would not equate to assault speed, and if I wanted to still be a Heavy I would have specced into them and had a big gun to go with my Duvolle. Try speccing into a Logi and please tell me what it is like, I already know that this fit would not be anywhere near isk efficient nor would it work regardless of what the fitting tool says. Try using one, Logi bros are already slower than assaults without the armor plating and you want a heavy with assault speed? You forgot to add a Kin Cat then. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Cosgar ParagonX 7703	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:40:00 - [45] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. facepalm THATS THE ******* POINT You get heavy EHP with assault speed. Can you not see the freaking issue?! Gahdamn, muthathukker, stupid ass forums.. walks away from the computer But I mean, you REALLY don't think nothing is wrong with a suit having Heavy level EHP while maintaining the majority of its speed? Have you factored in how much ISK and SP you need to even make that abomination? Also, you're going to win a 1 v 1 fight with the first guy you meet, but what after? That 5HP/s is going to take a long ass time to rep all that armor. Might be a bit faster than a heavy, but you're going to die just as fast too. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:45:00 - [46] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: We all agree that the assault bonuses are terrible and result in assaults not being able to really fulfill their role. While fixing that problem would go a long way towards dealing with the OP's issue I think that these buffs to assaults would have to be substantial and this would mean massive buffs would be needed to the already severly underpowered heavy and scout suits. Which would be easier for CCP to do correctly, buff three classes of suits or kill the ability of one suit to operate outside of its intended role? Come on, the assault bonus is able to make them more durable than a Logi, a better killer and also cheaper at the Proto level. Nerf Isk Loss on Proto Logi suits, and I may consider the request for an Assault buff a good idea. Anyone able to list off a Proto Slayer Minmatar Logi suit fitting please do so, I'm tired of having 15-40 assists and 1-10 kills. Here Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. This coming from the same people who say they need... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 482	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:54:00 - [47] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: ... I am far from a slayer, I am the normal logi, as I have been from CB till now on at least one of my 3 toons. None of the suits are remotely even close to something useful, the whole point of being a Logi is to have equipment. I have never ever run a suit without equipment. Ever. If you think you are talking with someone with a high KDR think again, my warpoints may be above average but my KDR is far below 1, I will admit it freely. but I get the supplies to the troops and worry about having things they need. Try using a Logi suit and you will see, until then I suggest you do as you said, step away from the computer. The Heavies now have the ability to do well over 1100 HP, have you ever used a heavy suit? *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Cosgar ParagonX 7706	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:00:00 - [48] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Still moves faster then a Amarr logi With 1157 HP You do realize that the normal logis aren't the ducking issue? It's that it's being aboard to get such high HP while maintaining such speed, enabling it to be better then a suit that is specialized in that field. The TAR was being abused, just like the logi. It got nerfed. The flay was being abused, just like the logi. It got nerfed. The CalLogi was being abused to be better then its assault variant (which it still is). It got nerfed Why are the logis special? Why aren't they being balanced, even though it's being abused? Hmm? You're reaching for straws to KING CHECKMATE levels: -TAR eliminated any incentive to use any other AR, let alone any weapon. -Flaylock was overpowered when splash hit detection finally worked. -CaLogi was better than every suit in the game, haven't seen Nyain Sain using Amarr or Minmatar logi in droves yet. They only started using GaLogi after the plate buff. -Logis aren't special, just constantly targeted by forum butthurt. Just because a class is as viable as an assault suddenly makes it OP. I've seen this with heavies- nerfed!, scouts- nerfed! and since the commando came in pre-nerfed, the only thing left to be neutered by the almighty assault is the logi. 1.7 is around the corner and you're going to need logis more since there will no longer be an ISK payout for FW. In other words, don't bite the injector that saves you. Not like assaults can't carry injectors either, but they'd rather carry that militia nanohive and complain that logis don't drop ammo. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:03:00 - [49] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. facepalm THATS THE ******* POINT You get heavy EHP with assault speed. Can you not see the freaking issue?! Gahdamn, muthathukker, stupid ass forums.. walks away from the computer But I mean, you REALLY don't think nothing is wrong with a suit having Heavy level EHP while maintaining the majority of its speed? Have you factored in how much ISK and SP you need to even make that abomination? Also, you're going to win a 1 v 1 fight with the first guy you meet, but what after? That 5HP/s is going to take a long ass time to rep all that armor. Might be a bit faster than a heavy, but you're going to die just as fast too. SP? SP Guide for MinLogi Murderlogi-https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdG96Q0hWMFYtQzU0cjhfZUFrNm9valE&usp=sharing ISK? Not Factering skillbooks, its 136,710 ISk per fit. So, 8.228450 Million SP for a Murderlogi fit. Given that several of those skills are important if you want other suits, its a good investment. @ Draco, While heavies can reack over 1100 EHP, can they go 4.44 meters per second while do that? Hell, can they go 4.44 meters per second at all? And yes, I have used a heavy suit. But Heavy suits lose in this in that both their weapon is terribad, and their hitbox is huge compared to the Med frame Logi. Oh, and their slow as ***. So yeah, Logis still beat them when abused. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1502	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:08:00 - [50] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Still moves faster then a Amarr logi With 1157 HP You do realize that the normal logis aren't the ducking issue? It's that it's being aboard to get such high HP while maintaining such speed, enabling it to be better then a suit that is specialized in that field. The TAR was being abused, just like the logi. It got nerfed. The flay was being abused, just like the logi. It got nerfed. The CalLogi was being abused to be better then its assault variant (which it still is). It got nerfed Why are the logis special? Why aren't they being balanced, even though it's being abused? Hmm? You're reaching for straws to KING CHECKMATE levels: -TAR eliminated any incentive to use any other AR, let alone any weapon. -Flaylock was overpowered when splash hit detection finally worked. -CaLogi was better than every suit in the game, haven't seen Nyain Sain using Amarr or Minmatar logi in droves yet. They only started using GaLogi after the plate buff. -Logis aren't special, just constantly targeted by forum butthurt. Just because a class is as viable as an assault suddenly makes it OP. I've seen this with heavies- nerfed!, scouts- nerfed! and since the commando came in pre-nerfed, the only thing left to be neutered by the almighty assault is the logi. 1.7 is around the corner and you're going to need logis more since there will no longer be an ISK payout for FW. In other words, don't bite the injector that saves you. Not like assaults can't carry injectors either, but they'd rather carry that militia nanohive and complain that logis don't drop ammo. TAR was abused by those with modded controllers. Abused Flaylock was abused by those to get 200 damage per shot within a 3 merer radius. Abused Logis are being abused by those who can afford to run proto every single time to get heavy level EHp while maintaining a speed comparable to a assault. Abused. Every other weapon, suit, or thing in the game that people exploited to gain a huge upper hand has been nerfed so that the exploitation ends. The entire logi class is being used, through its generous slots, to create mega tanks that can rival heavies. But they aren't touched? Seriously? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 485	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:15:00 - [51] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. facepalm THATS THE ******* POINT You get heavy EHP with assault speed. Can you not see the freaking issue?! Gahdamn, muthathukker, stupid ass forums.. walks away from the computer But I mean, you REALLY don't think nothing is wrong with a suit having Heavy level EHP while maintaining the majority of its speed? Have you factored in how much ISK and SP you need to even make that abomination? Also, you're going to win a 1 v 1 fight with the first guy you meet, but what after? That 5HP/s is going to take a long ass time to rep all that armor. Might be a bit faster than a heavy, but you're going to die just as fast too. SP? SP Guide for MinLogi Murderlogi-https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdG96Q0hWMFYtQzU0cjhfZUFrNm9valE&usp=sharing ISK? Not Factering skillbooks, its 136,710 ISk per fit. So, 8.228450 Million SP for a Murderlogi fit. Given that several of those skills are important if you want other suits, its a good investment. @ Draco, While heavies can reack over 1100 EHP, can they go 4.44 meters per second while do that? Hell, can they go 4.44 meters per second at all? And yes, I have used a heavy suit. But Heavy suits lose in this in that both their weapon is terribad, and their hitbox is huge compared to the Med frame Logi. Oh, and their slow as **. So yeah, Logis still beat them when abused. Thats what cover is for Meeko, and can I use an OHK weapon whenever I want or have equipment to heal your heavy brick suit while you are using your OHK weapon? NO. Why are you running a Heavy if you don't have a Logi with you to rep you? Hell why are you not using an LAV to get around? I notice in the Logi Murder skill plan no proficiency in the weapon of choice which is very much a factor in being able to do as you say, why even at Lv 1-3 of Proficiency without a Complex damage modifier you still end up with less DPS than a Heavy face to face when they are using an Proto Assault Forge Gun. So you have a big hit box, there are lots of places to hide on a map and a Logi getting shot in the head by a Charge SR will be OHKed while a Heavy will require a second shot, tested with 4 Complex Damage mods. One Universe...with friendly fire for all!**
Cosgar ParagonX 7707	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:24:00 - [52] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: TAR was abused by those with modded controllers. Abused Flaylock was abused by those to get 200 damage per shot within a 3 merer radius. Abused Logis are being abused by those who can afford to run proto every single time to get heavy level EHp while maintaining a speed comparable to a assault. Abused. Every other weapon, suit, or thing in the game that people exploited to gain a huge upper hand has been nerfed so that the exploitation ends. The entire logi class is being used, through its generous slots, to create mega tanks that can rival heavies. But they aren't touched? Seriously? Wasn't just the modded controllers, it had a higher DPS than a blaster turret, hip fire spread tighter than a breach AR, all with a ridiculous high clip size. But it didn't get nerfed, it got re-balanced. People still use it because it's still viable. This whole game is balanced based on bad hit detection. That's why AR DPS is so insane, M-1/Core locus grenades are overpowered, the MD was nerfed/buffed and the flaylock needed to be worked on. Buffer tanking isn't everything and there's more modules than just shield extenders and plates. 1.4-1.6 has put too much emphasis on buffering, but I used to get by in my M/1 series that barely had 500HP and the only thing proto being my equipment. (Or sidearm if I was bored) Difference between the TAR and the flaylock is what got fixed before the other. If hit detection got fixed in 1.2, I'm pretty sure we would have seen less flaylocks since the AR would have gone back to being the god gun it's been for several builds. Probably would still need to be re-balanced, but not as heavy handed as CCP did. It's only partially usable at proto and with prof 3 or a damage mod. Which brings me to another point. Every nerf logi topic before this one has done the same damn thing- base everything on prototype. Logi suits only get their highest module slots at protoype. Some suits are pretty horrible at standard and somewhat decent at advanced. But you wouldn't know that just from looking at spreadsheets, huh? Even if every logi suit gets +1 module slot compared to an assault at proto, (Caldari gets 2) assaults still get that extra weapon, which makes them more dynamic in their weapon choices. How many non-Amarr logis have you seen with swarm launchers and lasers? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 486	Posted - 2013.11.12 07:41:00 - [53] - Quote I keep seeing Logi Bros trying to Rez players with needles and getting blown up or shot by all suit classes, this means that although there may be some abusers of a system that allows for a moderate amount of HP by far they are Lower HP builds that people are using because they understand what the Logi suit is for. There is no reason to fit the kind of tank you have suggested Meeko, it would melt under the firepower of my Gek, or Toxin AR while I duck behind cover and exchange repeated volleys with them. I could most likely do this without a damage mod and would be able to drop reps to heal my armor while behind cover. My point is at that amount of buffer you are slow enough that every ounce of shield and armor are needed to use to get to cover while being fired upon. It does-not-work. Period. Your reasoning that it would work leaves me wondering how many times I or one of my Logi brethren have repeatedly done this to you exactly as I have described while you have stood out in the wide open laying down DPS with an HMG thinking you could drill through the post I am standing behind. I normally aim for a Heavy in the head, they go down quicker and with reduced movement they are easier targets. When firing at anyone, shooting them in the head equates to 4x the damage and if you do it right the enemy will move right into your stream of bullets like a chainsaw going to work on a tree, getting closer to you to try to deal more damage, or away dropping their head right in line with the bullets. This is a great tactic for taking out heavies, unfortunately you need to be significantly quicker to do this with other suit classes, specifically the assault class. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Text Grant Death Firm. 208	Posted - 2013.11.12 09:48:00 - [54] - Quote Nexus marines? Does your corp have any good logis? I'm sure they don't wanna stay with you.
Paran Tadec Imperfect Bastards 1631	Posted - 2013.11.12 13:20:00 - [55] - Quote Remove assault suit equipment slots. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 93	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:05:00 - [56] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Given that speed tanking hasn't worked in the past 6 patches, and generally won't Ina FPS, the speed gap is basically from the LAV parking lot to the Obby, that is a negligible aspect, while gaining 300 HP, and losing a sidearm, which won't be needed in 1v1, or if you reload semifrequently. Pros- Tons of Equipment Huge HP Roughly comperable speed to a salt Cons- Marginally slower base speed Marginally less base HP No sidearm TBQH, why wouldn't you choose logi for your assault needs? Because that "Huge HP" of yours is not actually that much higher than the relevant Assault. Logis get roughly a hundred more HP when super-tanked which equates to about 0.0000000000000000001* seconds of life. I agree there needs to be a balance between the two, definitely, but the Logistics is not horrendously b0rken, and is actually fairly decent for the current build: almost all of the other classes are severely lacking. If you tear down in the current TTK environment, we will just have a **** twitch shooter whereas if we buff all the others, we may actually get a game where the TTK is not retardedly short and roles can actually perform. *Exaggeration.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 154	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:21:00 - [57] - Quote What if we swapped the damage on both the AR and HMG? It actually makes sense, AR is pinpoint accurate, the hmg is cone fire.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 491	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:03:00 - [58] - Quote I'm for buffing everyone, TTk is way too short. Just because you see a logi running around and not getting killed does not mean they have a superb tank but maybe they are a good FPS player and have got game. Even the most advanced suit can be killed and anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themself. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1596	Posted - 2013.11.13 12:20:00 - [59] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? You know what? For that, I'll pop you in he face with my imperial scrambler rifle on my ak0 logi. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 210	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:07:00 - [60] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Just need dem fitting skills. Out of curiosity, I tried that fit out. It's pretty useless since you're not taking advantage of equipment. Might as well be a heavy with a Duvolle. Yes I have wondered about that too. If the logi is a better Assault just because you can tank the hell out of it I do not understand while the same people don't complain abaout heavies beeing better assaults too lol. The funny part in all this disccussions is how arguments change their meaning, the sidearm for instance whenever someone suggests Logis to limit to a siedarm the sidearm is a viable combat option but whenever a logi player says the sidearm is a viable addition to cambateffectiveness for assaults the sidearm all of sudden is garbage . Imho the current Logi is somewhat a missconception the Logi should fill the gap between scouts and Assaults in HP speed and slots. I would not mind to loose one (High/Low) slot in order to be as fast or slighly faster than assaults and I wouldn't mind Assaults to get that slot. Keeping up with assaults on the frontline is very difficult and even though lots of logis pair with heavies I prefere to pair with assaults on the frontline as they need my assistance more...

Mia Romani Nexus Marines 38	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:19:00 - [61] - Quote Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. Interstellar Crossroads
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4349	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:44:00 - [62] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Why not? Now with hit detection poperly working, SMG's shred things to pieces extremely quick. *Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant* *Beta Vet* *Level 4 Forum Warrior*
Cosgar ParagonX 7733	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:21:00 - [63] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Why not? Now with hit detection poperly working, SMG's shred things to pieces extremely quick. How come when I say the assaults are better because they get sidearms, you try to downplay it, but you say they're good enough for logis? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 123	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:19:00 - [64] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. [/quote] Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective than Amarr at combat so why they are more powerful ???
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1288	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:32:00 - [65] - Quote Remove 1 Equipment slot, add sidearm, keep the Logi moniker. Implement a 3 equipment, single sidearm only, no grenades, Medic/Intel suit. More content, not less. Cheeseburgers.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 493	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:07:00 - [66] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. The problem is the limit, not the additional gear, such as deployable turrets. Being a combat engineer means needing to be mobile, and putting a limit on what should be fit in that weapon slot is certainly an issue for someone who wants to be mobile. Having the option to fit a sidearm is why I got the Toxin SMG, because they do work. Even a heavy can, if they so choose, fit a Light weapon or Sidearm in their Heavy Weapon slot. As for the assault being underwhelming, all the suits are, I have chosen my specialization for my own reasons and others for theirs but currently all suits need some sort of HP buff. The TTK is too short in so many cases that its a wonder that people still use Proto in Pub matches. You say there is a problem with the assault suits and instead of suggesting some kind of buff to them you suggest that the Logi be limited in a way that many of us are not prepared to accept as a reasonable change. What would you do if we suggested that the Assault be limited to only light weapons and one less weapon slot? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:29:00 - [67] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective than Amarr at combat so why they are more powerful ??? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 494	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:37:00 - [68] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective th... *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:41:00 - [69] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for ... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Eris Ernaga State Patriots 688	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:10:00 - [70] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Logis don't need a nerf assaults need a buff and not in stats but pg and cpu to make there fittings works that's what I am taking in so far after pre fitting my minmitar assault. Ba bang baby

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 495	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:35:00 - [71] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: And you would turn down being able to fit equipment more easily? Would you turn down being able to have HP? Would you turn down quicker move speed? Stop text walling. I would gladly be able to fit more equipment more easily and more hp as well as move speed but most of your wall'o'text is not suggesting anything of the sort Meeko. To what do I respond? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 129	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:48:00 - [72] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: [quote=Mia Romani]Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Make it a beacon that you have to protect for a few moments while it calls down a small turret from the WB. Anyone under Iit when it lands gets killed. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1809	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:45:00 - [73] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... How is this still a topic? We put this to bed countless times before I had my little break from the forums and now this topic is back but with no new support, data or analysis to describe why or how it's even called for much less why and how it's the optimal solution or a proper use of development resources at this stage of the game. Show me via competitive normalized fits (i.e. with the Logi suit being built to at least meet all the base stats of the Assault suit prior to additional specialization) within the same race (because anything else is apples to oranges) where any balance disparity exists and then further how this solution addresses that purported disparity while not created a new one. Remember when making this analysis that total SP investment and total ISK per fit cost are both vital to be listed. I await the opportunity to review fittings from anyone in support of this idea. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
DEZKA DIABLO Unkn0wn Killers 35	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:58:00 - [74] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Buff assaults by giving them passive damage bonuses to weapons (as mentioned above) or two grenade slots. Ummmm how about no! In uprising ccp gave everyone back the 10% weaponry damage, plus you get 15% frOm proficiency 5, then you get 10% from a mod, that's 35% damage without penalty, two more complex mods is almost 50% damage that means a AR bullet is almost 50 HP a shot an a scr is almost 100 HP per shot! So really you think logistics is bad, what your asking for is worse, not to mention, core nade tossers inside nano hives with two nade slots! Say what you mean, you want logistics to not carry rifles, I'm sure you could care less about a shotgunner logi.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1598	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:07:00 - [75] - Quote How about assaults can't use their grenades? My amarr logi is defined by its ability to have a sidearm so limiting logis to secondary weapons, what would make my suit special? "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 125	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 - [76] - Quote I really like the idea of "Deployable turrets". But not as equipement but as a Weapon. Because using a equipement slot for them will be meaningless. Make a New types of weapon. Light / Sidearms / Heavy / Deployable. Heavy is only for Heavy Suit and Deployable for Logi suits. Then make Turrets being available in these slots. AND as you said for turrets what about the Drones we see in the trailers ? You have two category (for the moment) in Deployable (Can be reloaded with Nanohives). : Turrets : (Some of these could have some protective shield like Nanohives bubble) one for each race with differant weapons on and eHp => Special ability (Minmatarr can have 2 at the same time Caldari got some bubble shield that can protect him etcetc....) Drones : Follow you and shoot at the ennemy. And Sidearms. What do you think ?
137H4RGIC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 133	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 - [77] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles (Assault, AV etc) even on the frontline providing said support when it is needed not hanging around drinking tea untill it is time to lay an uplink, provide repairs, use a needle or what have you because their ability to fight is reduced. They need to be just as combat effective as other troops. If a logi is using any of the available equipment as well as killing enemys they are still doing their job and supporting the squad, team. Of course that is not set in stone as this game is still billed as sandbox and it's up to the player how they want to fit or run their suit aswell. Basically there is no right or wrong way because it is choice and opinion. Personally I carry a nano hive, repair tool and active scanner on my adv Logi, still being able to provide effective firepower and replenish ammo, armour and give intel when the squad needs it. I also play adv Assault just as much as my Logi if not more so don't dismiss this as bias please. If you think the Assault class or any other is lack luster try coming up with ways to more define their role instead. It's simple. 1) this is an mmorpgfps, not just An mmofps. This is also a game not real life. If it was real life, we would have bullet arch, and unlimited range. But we don't. So we could raise the cost of light weapons for logis, or, lower the max pg cpu, and make sidearm weaponry dirty cheap for logis to use. Because from an mmorpg standpoint, logis are op in their versatility, combat effectiveness, putting the assault suit to shame. This is a game, not real life. Nerf the one man armies.
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1518	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:47:00 - [78] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: And you would turn down being able to fit equipment more easily? Would you turn down being able to have HP? Would you turn down quicker move speed? Stop text walling. I would gladly be able to fit more equipment more easily and more hp as well as move speed but most of your wall'o'text is not suggesting anything of the sort Meeko. To what do I respond? Eh, did I break the wall o text copyright ? I'll restate it. Mirror base stats, and hi and low slots between assault and logi suits. Give logis a 15ish percent per level to fitting resources reduction on equip. The Great Wall of texts is mention it, below the links. I feel logis and assaults should differ only in equip and sidearms. Only the Amarr is strange, so it should lose a small amount of HP, or keep its speed. I feel that keeping its speed is a better suggestion for balancing it. That's all that need be done in my mind For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Ghost Kaisar R 0 N 1 N 826	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:05:00 - [79] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Buff assaults by giving them passive damage bonuses to weapons (as mentioned above) or two grenade slots. I would be okay with this if you got rid of the assaults equipment slot. And only if we got rid of the across the board 10% damage buff. "All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:12:00 - [80] - Quote I honestly haven't been able to find the post but someone suggested requiring the equipment slots to all be full for it to be a valid Logi fit. I think this could help mitigate the Slayerlogi, though not guaranteed, you could still see Proto suits with basic equipment. I don't play as a dedicated Logi, but as a Heavy I've seen them plying their trade often enough to respect their opinions on this better than a layman like myself. Honestly, I hear a lot about the Slayerlogi, but only had 1 confirmed sighting myself, and on my alts I've been in this DUST 3 months. I've had plenty of Logis kill me, but theyre supposed to be able to!

Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1771	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:16:00 - [81] - Quote Audacious Mandate wrote: I honestly haven't been able to find the post but someone suggested requiring the equipment slots to all be full for it to be a valid Logi fit. I think this could help mitigate the Slayerlogi, though not guaranteed, you could still see Proto suits with basic equipment. I don't play as a dedicated Logi, but as a Heavy I've seen them plying their trade often enough to respect their opinions on this better than a layman like myself. Honestly, I hear a lot about the Slayerlogi, but only had 1 confirmed sighting myself, and on my alts I've been in this DUST 3 months. I've had plenty of Logis kill me, but theyre supposed to be able to! I remember that post but than what happens to my logi sniper fits (none have Dmg mods mind you) that have 2/3 equipment slots filled because I lack the pg cpu to put REs on them? "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
abarkrishna WarRavens 78	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:41:00 - [82] - Quote If this happens I will never play dust again. This is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
Chewie Parker Black Phoenix Mercenaries 55	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:49:00 - [83] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? well seeings as before the introduction of the CR . the AR is the lightest option available to a logi , therfore first choice . of course us logi's will fight this ,,,, you mock killer logi's , but me personaly being a team support , infiltration logi, i always have a killer logi with me , A to help keep me safe (cheers fussy) , B to carry the 2 pieces of equipment that i cant fit in my 2 spots (scanner ,remotes) . simple ,,,,,
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 134	Posted - 2013.11.26 12:17:00 - [84] - Quote logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- The most Elite fighting force in the galaxy
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 24	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:16:00 - [85] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 370	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:13:00 - [86] - Quote Well, here's my $0.02. People run CalLogi instead of the assault because it gets more slots and more Grid/CPU. The solution seems simple... swap the slot layouts for the Caldari Assault and Logi. Give the assault the 5/4 layout and the logi the 4/3 layout. Step 2... swap the passive armor repair feature of the suit for a healthy bonus to both logi item output (for example, a boost to injectors, rep tool rates, armor repped by nanohives, etc)... and have this apply to all logis across the board... or a fitting bonus similar to Gallente suits, that will reduce CPU and PG needs of support modules. EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:30:00 - [87] - Quote logistics (Concise Encyclopedia) In military science, all the activities of armed-force units in support of combat units, including transport, supply, communications, and medical aid. The term, first used by Henri Jomini, Alfred Thayer Mahan, and others, was adopted by the U.S. military in World War I and gained currency in other nations in World War II. Its importance grew in the 20th century with the increasing complexity of modern warfare. The ability to mobilize large populations has escalated military demands for supplies and provisions, and sophisticated technology has added to the cost and intricacy of weapons, communications systems, and medical care, creating the need for a vast network of support systems. In World War II, for instance, only about three in 10 U.S. soldiers served in a combat role. lo-+gis-+tics noun plural but singular or plural in construction \l+ì--êjis-tiks, l+Ö-\ : the things that must be done to plan and organize a complicated activity or event that involves many people Full Definition of LOGISTICS 1 : the aspect of military science dealing with the procurement, maintenance, and transportation of military mat+¬riel, facilities, and personnel 2 : the handling of the details of an operation corps-+man noun \-êko¦çr(z)-m+Ön\ Definition of CORPSMAN 1 : an enlisted man trained to give first aid and minor medical treatment 2 : a member of a government-sponsored service corps CCP this is stupid all these people want to do is get back to assault fights and they dont want any other class being combat effective never mind that I have 32 million sp 17 million just in dropsuit upgrades. Like Ive said before it takes way more sp to achieve these results and I help my team. If you mess with the Amarr Logi Then I would request that you fix the Amarr assault and give it another low slot at proto level....I also think its funny in a reverse psycological way these people want the 2nd equipment slot back on the assault or more grenade slots when the commando has none. As far as Logi slayers (Galente Logi) that setup cost 280K ISK people arent rocking that fit as often as the QQ's or the braggers that say they have alot of cash are putting on. If you change the Logistics dropsuit to say only carry side arm you can forget about this game going anywhere no one will play logi there will be no more nano hives no more rep tools no more uplinks no more proto scanners. I am not going to waste sp into Drop suit upgrades as Ill now be playing assault and I dont need all that equipment.You can forget about this game even resembling EVE at all..... Im not going to do any support so squad leads can glory ***** off my SP with OB's while I get killed 10 times in a pub match losing ISK on fits and a loss to my KDR...LOL Fuckin get real. Logi's are out killing assaults because these players are the oldest players with that much SP to make the suit combat effective with LVL5 PROFICIENCIES to WEAPONS.......WORKING AS INTENDED HTFU Get like us an get you a logi suit and cross class...oh wait you dont want to support the team at all. You're only concerned about your own kill count and your own personal stats you 1 dimensional scrubs. CCP with Veteren players playing Logi you also help out the newbs which helps to continue healthy player population....I dont know where in that definition up there it says that a Logistics Specialist is just a medic bullet sponge.... Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
knight guard fury Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 68	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:50:00 - [88] - Quote why not either: 1. get rid of there passive regen bonus for something else or 2. give logi's 2 sidearm slots considering logi's are pretty OP with that passive regen. bonus, but i wouldnt care what happens with what because im skilled into every single thing in the game so i can easily adapt to anything and everything and id still be able to kill people with sidearms as a logi because i use scouts a lot any way so im use to killing with sidearms
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:54:00 - [89] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: why not either: 1. get rid of there passive regen bonus for something else or 2. give logi's 2 sidearm slots considering logi's are pretty OP with that passive regen. bonus, but i wouldnt care what happens with what because im skilled into every single thing in the game so i can easily adapt to anything and everything and id still be able to kill people with sidearms as a logi because i use scouts a lot any way so im use to killing with sidearms If they do this .what you have mentioned Ill turn around and put that 17 million into weaponry...... Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 359	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:56:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Logibro, It's time to speak up and provide some clarity about why you're citing this conversation on your feedback thread. Logis do not want their light weapons removed! Explain CCP's position on the matter so that we can provide our own feedback before anything actually changes.

Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:59:00 - [91] - Quote Change the Logi and Ill go assault and like I said 17 million sp will now be free from dropsuit Upgrades for me to put into weaponry.So you think about how many LVL 5 proficiencies that'll buy me. Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:25:00 - [92] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: only iff you increase the range of sidearms on logi suits to compensate. must match AR range just to be fair :) Unerf the flaylock AGREED!!! Unnerf that **** NOW
T'orq DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:31:00 - [93] - Quote Hey guys, as a logi, I disagree with logis being OP.I might not know what I am talk9ng about but here goes nothing. Logis get killed quickly by militia suits, and more quickly by assault suits and heavy suits. Take away our light weapon, and we are as good as dead. You guys talk about 1v1 fights when it is normally more than 1 team mate and enemy. If one of you team dies and needs a rez, a logi needs the damage of a light weapon to kill the enemy to rezz his team mate. The lack of a sidearm gives all other suits an advantage, because if the enemy runs out of ammo in their light weapon they can switch to their side arm, while if a logi runs out he is dead. It has happened to me multiple times. I don't run weapon upgrades, because that is not what I like. If you want a solution all that is needed is to make it impossible for logis to use weapon damage modules. Simple as that.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 83	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:34:00 - [94] - Quote (removing light weapons)Its just he dumbest thing I ve ever heard....straight up.....who in the hell would play this class? Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 484	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:36:00 - [95] - Quote Every ******** that comes up with this idea doesen't realize that without light weapons logis won't be able to kill the guy that just killed you. So you will a) get rezzed and then diea gain, and you will whine even more on the forum because "bad logis should kill people before rezzing!!!1!!!11!" b) you don't get rezzed at all, and you come on the forum crying that noone rezzd your 150k isk full proto assault armor You weren't there when Nanite Injectors were broken and didn't show fallen teammates. You weren't there when rezzing somenone gave less WP than a kill. I was. And i carried a nanite even if it was extra hard to use and had poor reward. You didn't see the assault dudes raging because they weren't rezzed, you didn't see people whining because they lost 10 proto suit because noone rezzed them. I was. If ccp listen to this stupid idea of you dickheads you will cry WAAAAAAY MORE than logis will. And i will still kill you all, even with a sidearm only. Mordus Private Trials Veteran, logibro from the E3 2012 build. I will adapt, and you will die.
lionshead nebula The Exemplars Top Men. 3	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:39:00 - [96] - Quote The problem with slayer logi fits is they forgo all of the equipment slots and use that extra pg and CPU for tank. Instead of making a light weapon a requirement for the logi suit, make the requirement for a valid fitting logi suit: filling all equipment slots with equipment. Do the math add up how much CPU and pg cost those three to four slots will cost, even at standard, then look at shield extenders and armor plates. Plus, you can use however much tank you want, if your terrible cqc, that health isn't going to help you much.
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:48:00 - [97] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. The problem is the limit, not the additional gear, such as deployable turrets. Being a combat engineer means needing to be mobile, and putting a limit on what should be fit in that weapon slot is certainly an issue for someone who wants to be mobile. Having the option to fit a sidearm is why I got the Toxin SMG, because they do work. Even a heavy can, if they so choose, fit a Light weapon or Sidearm in their Heavy Weapon slot. As for the assault being underwhelming, all the suits are, I have chosen my specialization for my own reasons and others for theirs but currently all suits need some sort of HP buff. The TTK is too short in so many cases that its a wonder that people still use Proto in Pub matches. You say there is a problem with the assault suits and instead of suggesting some kind of buff to them you suggest that the Logi be limited in a way that many of us are not prepared to accept as a reasonable change. What would you do if we suggested that the Assault be limited to only light weapons and one less weapon slot? give this man a medal
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:50:00 - [98] - Quote umm how are 2 gernade slots going to work. P.S. i am going to do what I did in Chromosome if this happens..Stand on a Triage Hive and a Ishoukone hive but instead of spamming MD I am going to spam the **** outta nades. ANd then ull be back on the forms begging to nerf nades cuz ur scrub ass couldnt take it. (Do nades benefit from any dmg mods?)
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:52:00 - [99] - Quote lionshead nebula wrote: The problem with slayer logi fits is they forgo all of the equipment slots and use that extra pg and CPU for tank. Instead of making a light weapon a requirement for the logi suit, make the requirement for a valid fitting logi suit: filling all equipment slots with equipment. Do the math add up how much CPU and pg cost those three to four slots will cost, even at standard, then look at shield extenders and armor plates. Plus, you can use however much tank you want, if your terrible cqc, that health isn't going to help you much. Ummm some logis have more equipment than others..Do we need to fill them all? Also umm our ISK...that makes Assaults not caring about Isk as much as we do. I carry 2-3 equipment (3 since scanner) and leave the other 2 empty. It is too much ISK. And in a PC the needle is useless...if you say it is useful you never been in a good corp and fought against other good corps...It will only be useful when instakill clones are removed.
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:09:00 - [100] - Quote 843-BANE wrote: Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... would u like 4 equipment slots keep your assault bonus? and the extra low slot is used for a cpu anyways. Yes I use equipment.. And and the same cpu and PG? fair enough? btw I dont need a sidearm cuz I aint QQing. So makign the only difference between us is that i have ONE extra low slot... Listen here. I spent my SP on EQUIPMENT while you should have spent it on Weapons prof and all that good stuff. In th elong game I have spent more SP to run my suit than u have urs. THEN my equipment also cost more isk. More isk and more SP...I think I hsould be abel to kill you. U only buy a suit..mods and the guns..I buy al that PLUS the equipment which I had to skill INTO too.

Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 83	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 - [101] - Quote Dachande Anasazi wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... would u like 4 equipment slots keep your assault bonus? and the extra low slot is used for a cpu anyways. Yes I use equipment.. And and the same cpu and PG? fair enough? btw I dont need a sidearm cuz I aint QQing. So makign the only difference between us is that i have ONE extra low slot... Listen here. I spent my SP on EQUIPMENT while you should have spent it on Weapons prof and all that good stuff. In th elong game I have spent more SP to run my suit than u have urs. THEN my equipment also cost more isk. More isk and more SP...I think I hsould be abel to kill you. U only buy a suit..mods and the guns..I buy al that PLUS the equipment which I had to skill INTO too. Yeah they dont get it cuz they dont have the SP and there one demensional minds cant grasp the concept Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 155	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:13:00 - [102] - Quote Quote: Logi's are out killing assaults because these players are the oldest players with that much SP to make the suit combat effective with LVL5 PROFICIENCIES to WEAPONS.......WORKING AS INTENDED HTFU Get like us an get you a logi suit and cross class...oh wait you dont want to support the team at all. You're only concerned about your own kill count and your own personal stats you 1 dimensional scrubs. Finally someone who understand !!!!! OP logis are the most of the time more pwerful than assault because they have more SP than Assaults !!!!!! I'm a freakin 16 millions SP with my Logi suits i just make triple kill of assaults BUT these assaults are freakin' noobs with 2 million Sp that's NORMAL i rip them out..... Take A Logi suits and a Assault suit with SAME skills and you'll see the Assault is better in every part !!!!!! Making a Logi suits takes a Lot of SP. A lot of Logi are Veterans players they have huge passive skills. To JUST have Logi Proto AND Proto equipements it needs like 6-7 Million of SP. OF COURSE We are better than you after because we optimized the class to it's best using Skills where we needed it. We got proficiency. We takes skills in what we are good for. We used tons of Sp to HELP THE TEAM. In reality the real Logi problem is not the suits it's the frustrated assualt that has become logi and playing it as a slayers not as it's intended. A real Logi fitting Real Equipements CAN'T MAKE SLAYERS SUITS. Real Logi are balanced. False logi playing slayers are not. Punish them not all of us. (PG/CPU restrictions only for equipements or something else dunno)
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 259	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:57:00 - [103] - Quote ******** idea. I use that light weapon slot for my beloved MD. I have been a masshole since the beginning of Chromosome and I would be quite disappointed if it was removed. Logis should just have a much higher CPU/PG requirement for damage mods.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:16:00 - [104] - Quote I support logi side arm only *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1383	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:31:00 - [105] - Quote OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. Cheeseburgers.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 157	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:36:00 - [106] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. The first role is actually the Amarr Logi. That's why i choosed. To be support fire. (More than medical trooper)
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1779	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:42:00 - [107] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. No. My amarr logi must keep its light weapon + sidearm layout as that's it's defining feature. The way I see it, the amarr logi and assault are the only balanced suits in the game....aside from min logi. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 85	Posted - 2013.11.27 01:55:00 - [108] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Lol dude they got no clue what their in for, 3 complex dam scr pistol, core nades an remotes an hives an scanners, lol
ZEROBLOOM Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:15:00 - [109] - Quote If this dumbness happens just because some ppl cry and whine cause they cant play the game then... I for one will no longer spend $ on this great game nor play it again... I am a gal logi... I play my role and kill... I support and I slaughter... U cry babies are ruining this game... Period.... If our millitary forces did this... Well it wouldnt be pretty... Hell most medics ive seen carry bigger weapons than regular classes... Bad idea ccp to cater to the cry babies... If anything improve the assualt class to help the class... The bonuses for the assult classes suck tbh
Cosgar ParagonX 8023	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:16:00 - [110] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Lol dude they got no clue what their in for, 3 complex dam scr pistol, core nades an remotes an hives an scanners, lol Imagine if we got raw input for kb/m too. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 360	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:30:00 - [111] - Quote ZEROBLOOM wrote: If this dumbness happens just because some ppl cry and whine cause they cant play the game then... I for one will no longer spend $ on this great game nor play it again... I am a gal logi... I play my role and kill... I support and I slaughter... U cry babies are ruining this game... Period.... If our millitary forces did this... Well it wouldnt be pretty... Hell most medics ive seen carry bigger weapons than regular classes... Bad idea ccp to cater to the cry babies... If anything improve the assualt class to help the class... The bonuses for the assult classes suck tbh Right. Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 570	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:53:00 - [112] - Quote I like it. Please have a look at this. Munch What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 570	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:54:00 - [113] - Quote I like it. Please have a look at this. Munch What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Legion of Eden Covert Intervention 1	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:12:00 - [114] - Quote Most people here don't want to see logi balanced, they want us to be their b.... I've got 19 mln SP almost all sacraficed for ammar logi. Got 3 weapons : AR, Laser and Swarms. The only fit that I got 3 complex damage mods are swarms because I got low prof skill ( on laser as well but I wear 2 cdm on it). AR is my weapon of choice. Got prof 4 so I need only one complex damage mode. And no sidearm. because I need more hp. Usually I equip 40hp/s nano (88cpu/16pg) 80% injector and core rep tool. Those 3 equipments have same cpu/pg usage as all slots for heavy all together. I'm not using sidearm on my ammar because I havn't got enaugh cpu/pg. I got core skill for both of them on lvl 5, cpu lvl 4, pg lvl 4. My low slots are filled with basic armor plates due to my eq. Other thing is as a PS Plus member I received free Exile AR blueprint (I use it most time) and I bought merc pack wth Toxin one. Those will be useless for me. My only sidearm weapon is scrambler pistol (lvl1) and flylock (lvl3). How is it going to be fair for us if I reached to lvl5 with almost all eq available and I don't have any better sidearm weapon to defend myself now.?? CCP please don't nerf logi. Give restriction that all eq slots need to be filled and there must be min cpu/pg amount spent for eq only. That will force logis to be logis. Don't blame all of us if only small % of logis are not ok. Also please make sniper rifle available only for assault and scouts. Proto logi with sniper is peace of s... and makes me laugh.
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Top Men. 50	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:08:00 - [115] - Quote This **** again? Logi is a suit type, not a role, and punishing players for finding creative ways to use the suit is absurd. But okay, if we've decided to force players to use a suit type in a specific way, let's remove the equipment slot from assault suits. They also shouldn't be able to use dampeners. That's a scout thing. No hacking modules, either. In fact, why can they hack at all? That's really a logi job. Oh, and scouts shouldnt be able to use armor or shield modules, only dampeners and sensors.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 234	Posted - 2013.11.27 17:46:00 - [116] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? I don't know many logies that use assault rifles, a reduction in flexibility however is not desired. I've been using a logi since the beginning and I've only been using the weapon that is most useful to me and is most efficient, this is the smg and not the assault rifle but for some people it is, the problem right now is that the assault rifle is the god gun. A sidearm only logistics suit doesn't leave us with many options and it also doesn't solve the problem because sidearms are pretty damn powerful on their own, the only difference is the range and bringing all logies to close range so that logies who prefer to fight at long range (which is probably just more effective for playing a support role) are discouraged to be support players. The problem is the guns and their power and lack of balance and the fact that the other suits don't really have any outstanding unique qualities, don't blame the logi for that it's a developer mistake. Make the other suits better, I'll tell ya right now even if heavies get a 25% buff to health and assaults get a big damage increase and scouts get more speed or whatever the hell they want to do to improve these roles, I'll still stick with logi, there's no reason to make using a logi a pain in the ass for some people.
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 322	Posted - 2013.11.27 22:38:00 - [117] - Quote we only have ourselves to blames for this nerf. level 0 forum warrior self-proclaimed slayer weapon of choice: GEK-38 gallante assault rifle -STB infantry
abarkrishna WarRavens 81	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:16:00 - [118] - Quote Or how about you change the assault suits bonus' to reflect their roles more effectively. Seriously if CCP takes away light weapons from logis this game will die. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1803	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:18:00 - [119] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Or how about you change the assault suits bonus' to reflect their roles more effectively. Seriously if CCP takes away light weapons from logis this game will die. Exactly, it's like saying the quarterback can play quarterback but he's not allowed to wear shoes/cleats and a helmet when he plays. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 267	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:52:00 - [120] - Quote I love this game, i run sidearm logi or Md logi. If you make logis sidearm only, then make my massdriver a sidearm. Back in chromosome it was te premier logi weapon, and nobody complained. I wanna keep it that way, so make my md a sidearm. (Though in reality i'd just run double Md assault frames.) Assaults suck. The minmatar assault is outshined by any caldari, gallente is outshined by caldaris, and amarr logi is outshined by caldaris. And i'm talking Callogi. That thing can tank 1187 Hp, proto equipments, proto weapon, and standard nade. Logis need their 5hp/s reps- which assault player is going to have a repair tool to keep up the logi? If it's that bug of a problem, make 2 logi variants. Vk.0 has sidearm, 5 equipments, and current slot layout. Vk.1 has light weapon, 1 less slot, and 4 equipments. Vk.2 has light and sidearm, 1 less slot, and 3 equipments. Make the basic meds have a variant which is part logi- 2 equipment at std,adv, and 3 at proto. Has light weapon, and less slots than assault. This would be in addition to the current med frame which has same slots, sidearm and weapon. You remove logi's light slot, i'm through with the game. -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 539	Posted - 2013.11.28 01:12:00 - [121] - Quote This is an absurd topic, stop panicking people there is no reason to do anything to the logi suits, this is just fluff. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
BUNINHOSILVA10 DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 5	Posted - 2013.11.28 01:18:00 - [122] - Quote I see no need for logi nerf, because the assault has more advantages in combat. If a logi falls forward with assault, will defend as? The logi gets screwed when the weapon discharged in front of the assault. The assault has the option to exchange the gun for the secondary. And the logi of the bonus armor repair ... In this bonus helps in melee combat? Anything right .. Expect help from a bluebarry? They do not realize just defend, much less defend others .. If so, who will use proto logi to support, to risk dying for the support bluebarrys, which does not help. In a game where everything is expensive. Died 2 times of proto not worth it, since the gain of ISK per game is scarce ... If so, the heavy should be prohibited from using light weapons. Being that they were made to carry heavy weapons. The dropsuit between them, are well balanced ... It is for each player to use the way you think is best .. If in case this were to happen, I abandoned this game .. My God, these guys complain about everything in the game. If they fail to adapt to the game. So why play?. They know not to play, and are looking to defect to justify how bad they are .. Minmatar the best logistics.. lol
Hecarim Van Hohen Knights of Eternal Darkness 277	Posted - 2013.11.28 02:58:00 - [123] - Quote Logi with only an sidearm would be engineer from TF2 or that's what imagine it would be. It would be totally different if logis had drones and/or turrets of some sort... D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1812	Posted - 2013.11.28 03:02:00 - [124] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Or how about you change the assault suits bonus' to reflect their roles more effectively. Seriously if CCP takes away light weapons from logis this game will die. Exactly, it's like saying the quarterback can play quarterback but he's not allowed to wear shoes/cleats and a helmet when he plays. Quoting for perfect analogy "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 268	Posted - 2013.11.28 05:46:00 - [125] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Logi with only an sidearm would be engineer from TF2 or that's what imagine it would be. It would be totally different if logis had drones and/or turrets of some sort... The tf2 logi also can be a shotgunner. With this incoming nerf, we're stuck to 4 weapons. Imagine an engy that cant throw down turrets, and is stuck woth the starter pistol, but he can throw hves. -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 910	Posted - 2013.11.28 11:28:00 - [126] - Quote Well, if they do yank the weapons from Logis then this game is really done for me. They are ruining tanks. Fine. I am not skilled enough into tanks to get enough SP back to try them again. So tanks are done. They change the skill tree many times, often with a Ninja Nerf which means the reason you spent the SP into that Skill is gone but they don't have the decency to tell you nor give the chance to respec. You get to find out by getting killed over and over, or finding a post on the forums that explains how you just got hosed. Again. But to remove the Light Weapon from Logi? That is just a death trap. You cannot operate in this game without one. The TTK is so short it borders on absurd. My heavy with 1400+HP gets taken down in seconds. Logis are less than that. That would leave several million SP on the dirt* with no way to recover. Why would anyone use a Logi suit? I seriously have no idea. If I am not using the suit then why did I have to grind all this Logi based SP? Not just the suit but all the equipment as well. For that matter why is there any reason to continue in this game? To have such potential and to consistently trash is for nearly every release is beyond stupid. You might have to take an elevator up from CCP/Shanghai to get to normal a level of stupid. * just like CCP/Shanghai likes. Grind for SP and make it useless! Should make all Mercs switch to AUR, right? No, in my case I quit spending AUR because of getting the short end of this game too often.
Billi Gene Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 433	Posted - 2013.11.28 13:38:00 - [127] - Quote havent read entire thread: if Logi really are going to be limited to a side arm, at least make the suit carry more of each equipped equipment slot. ie: logi carrying nanohives gets x4 as opposed to the same item on any other suit getting the normal x2. apply this to all equipment, including remotes and proximity mines. and/or give specific item based logi suit bonuses: Logi suit spawned equipment is 0.3 more effective. ie: standard Drop uplink 0% spawn time bonus (10 seconds). Logi suit deployed Standard Drop uplink 33% spawn time bonus (6.66 seconds). Logi suit operated Repair tools, 20% increased range I've run sidearm logi, its doable, but not ideal... Mainly i run those suits when i want to force myself to focus on team survival. The operative word being 'Team'. I do have points in some assault suits, but most of my points are in Logi suits and equipments. When I am not in a team I cannot count on people and having a weapon with decent range makes the suit emminantly more enjoyable, I hardly ever bother with team chat (because its either trolled or no one else is using it), so I cannot tell someone to, "stay in cover I'm going to rep you!" "don't spawn yet, uplink going down" "don't spawn, reviving you!" etc. Limit logi combat range...fine if its needed, but give us back something in return eh? I haven't run assault with any real intent since closed beta when it was the only option, it isnt my personal playstyle, I like having equipment and team functionality. ((also there was a point somewhere above, that suggested that heavies shouldn't be allowed to fit light weapons..... if you are going to enforce role diversity, you might want to consider the validity of that statement.)) Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
KIKOLOKO BR DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2013.11.28 13:54:00 - [128] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... The ccp could make a deal then , reset all skill points of logistc suits , because like it or not , we are not bags of bullets .. who still wanted to be supported , and this update only had unworthiness .. ae says one thing to me , if not logistc more playing who relive you guys would give ammunition to repair , binds I do not agree with that ... my opinion
Hecarim Van Hohen Knights of Eternal Darkness 277	Posted - 2013.11.28 13:56:00 - [129] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Logi with only an sidearm would be engineer from TF2 or that's what imagine it would be. It would be totally different if logis had drones and/or turrets of some sort... The tf2 logi also can be a shotgunner. With this incoming nerf, we're stuck to 4 weapons. Imagine an engy that cant throw down turrets, and is stuck woth the starter pistol, but he can throw hves. Well I agree with you, logi with a sidearm is going to half force me to play point defense protecting my hives/uplinks as going outside is suicide with an smg :) Don't bring a knife in to a gunfight. Edit. The starter pistol is actually pretty deadly imo :D D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
Kazeno Rannaa BIG BAD W0LVES 332	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:03:00 - [130] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Last time I checked, it is not an issue of stepping on toes, rather it is an issue of COD/BF fan bois thinking that there needs to be an identifiable line of demarcation between a logi and an assault on the battlefield. The only difference is the fact that those that are playing assaults like running solo without the need to be with a squad (i.e., COD/BF style of play and situational attenuation) while a logi, if they are running it as a support element to a grouping, does so for the fact of creating better and a greater amount of options for their team and squad to succeed. DonGÇÖt cry because you choose poorly or that you have envy for the versatility of LogiGÇÖs in the field.You only wish that you could do what I can. If you want adaptive survivability in the field you should have thought longer about your choice in dropsuit specialization. Only haters hate the players. Players are those that can make effective choices that have long term serviceability. The fact that CCP wants to buy into this idea that Logis in a FPS should not be slayers, to some regard, is ridiculous considering that they are a FRONTLINE ELEMENT IN THE BATTLE. Very DIFFERENT THAN IN EVE. How the hell do you expect the soldiers that have been downed in combat to continue to be on the frontline IF the LOGI cannot slay before they pick up their squad mates????? As a MERC I canGÇÖt dip out to a station, refit my ship or dropsuit in the safe confines of the station and THEN DECIDE to go back to the fight in another system. NOPE! I am stuck in the hot zone till the bitter end of the engagement. That being of course dependent upon the fact that I am dedicated to my squad and the mission at hand. Only those that a rev worried about their KDR are the ones crying about the LogiGÇÖs being fielded at the moment. WHAT, you expect them to be cannon fodder?? I have been a dedicated Amarr logi since the beginning of Uprising. I have been a transitional Logi since Chromosome. So the FOTM argument donGÇÖt work here. That only comes up when someone doesnGÇÖt have the time to THINK OF A REAL ARGUMENT. It is an act of laziness. Nothing less. So, what the fact that my suits cost 30-50k more than any ASSault is not enough??? The fact that as an Amarr logi, I have less PG than another logi, let alone Assault, doesnGÇÖt put an enough of a hinderance??? The reduction of slots in exchange for the sidearm truncated with the reduced PG, slots, and equipments in addition to the expanded cost to my wallet to run an effective support suit for my squad is not enough of a detraction from skilling into it, isn't enough for you??? So since you, and I mean EVEN THE CCP DEV LOGIBRO, canGÇÖt think outside of the box and learn how to problem solve in an imaginative manner is all the reason to hamstring me and my logistics brothers and sisters??!!?? If you guys are so good, or the other classes are not, why is the answer to the problem to be bigots to the LOGIS??? Why not look for more inclusive solutions to the problem that ACTUALLY address the other problems that people have brought up about the other suits??? The more I look at these threads, the more I see the WITCH HUNT that it is. Your lack of skill and imagination is all the reason you seem to need to justify hamstringing those that have been better equipped (i.e., in decision making abilities, in imagination, in associated problem solving, in long term visions) and therefore better adapted to a longterm existence. This is supposed to be a game of choices and consequences. If there are respecs, then where are the consequences for the choices made? If the answer to a specific technologyGÇÖs superiority on the battlefield is to nerf it, which in reality would NEVER be the answer, what hasnGÇÖt the opposite end of the spectrum been considered? Typically when superior tech is encountered in the field, the solution to the techGÇÖs superiority is the advancement of current tech, its adaptation, or the emulation of the superior tech. But for some reason these options seem to be completely out of the realm of consideration. Why? I want an answer from CCP. I donGÇÖt care to hear from any of these crying COD/BF children. Their superfluous words and superficial statements that they attempt to have counted as substantive arguments are nothing more than brittle paper in a fire. it doesnGÇÖt even produce a significant amount of ash in the flames of reason. If balancing was the issue, then where is all the other equipment that has the potential of bringing the entire picture and context into balance? And why would you nerf something to only go back later to buff it out or change it back to basically where it originally started at (HEAVIES! in HP and Scouts in Scan Radius). That kind of on step forward to end up taking two steps back with just another step forward is what has left this community feeling like it is still standing in the same place as where we started in 2011. Please, get over the ego and the narcissistic tendencies. it is not just about you few people. There are a few more people than you. Devs included with the CPM should respond to THIS.

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 270	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:58:00 - [131] - Quote ^ that. Wall of text aside, it's correct. So what my logi can fight your assault? Learn to play ye ol 'halo' tactic and POP OUT OF COVER, shoot a bit, and pop BACK TO COVER. The big bad logi only has an AR, play bouncy peek-a-boo until he reloads, then charge. If you hear a grenade being cooked, CHARGE IMMEDIATELY. Not joking. I use that tactic against boundless bursts, you just gotta be careful. If the nerf brigade successfuly removes logi's LW, i'm through. I will no longer play support logi, i will go boundless breach and cQC the ** out of every ass-ault, and i will even go as far to say that the logi should be the only suit with equipments. Go ahead ass-aults, pick on me JUST ONCE MORE. First you almost force CCP to pull a CoD and throw minimum arming distance, then you whine about my smg, then you whine about scrampistols. I've grown tired of your **, scrubs. -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"
Kazeno Rannaa BIG BAD W0LVES 337	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:12:00 - [132] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: ^ that. Wall of text aside, it's correct. So what my logi can fight your assault? Learn to play ye ol 'halo' tactic and POP OUT OF COVER, shoot a bit, and pop BACK TO COVER. The big bad logi only has an AR, play bouncy peek-a-boo until he reloads, then charge. If you hear a grenade being cooked, CHARGE IMMEDIATELY. Not joking. I use that tactic against boundless bursts, you just gotta be careful. If the nerf brigade successfuly removes logi's LW, i'm through. I will no longer play support logi, i will go boundless breach and cQC the ** out of every ass-ault, and i will even go as far to say that the logi should be the only suit with equipments. Go ahead ass-aults, pick on me JUST ONCE MORE. First you almost force CCP to pull a CoD and throw minimum arming distance, then you whine about my smg, then you whine about scrampistols. I've grown tired of your **, scrubs. Fair enough. My explanations can be a bit lengthy. I attempt to address as many of the possible analogies that have been presented. But your point is along the same lines as mine. There is cover, there are different module layouts, different weapons available. Mix it up and try something new when the same banging of head against a wall doesnGÇÖt produce the result you are looking for.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 175	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:19:00 - [133] - Quote In my view, Assaults should have the same health as a basic suit, but deal more damage, and a logi suit should end up with more health than a basic suit, but not deal extra damage. Giving assaults a 2% damage per level instead of shield recharge will do this. However, TTK is abysmally short as it is. Therefore, remove the 10% damage buff all weapons got to account for this. Then require logis to fill all equipment slots. While this doesn't affect logis much, It can mean the difference between a Duvolle and a GEK, and frankly, if they skill up there core skills enough they can run a Duvolle anyway, then good on them. They've earned it. Anyone has additions to this, let me hear it.
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 253	Posted - 2013.11.29 22:55:00 - [134] - Quote Slen Kaleth wrote: Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles. U.S. Marine medics are U.S. Navy Corpmen. They train as medical personnel before being assigned to a marine unit, if they are to be a Marine medic. So, what you said is not always the case. They still carry a weapon... They will still engage in combat unless they are providing medical assistance.
dogmanpig black market bank 52	Posted - 2013.11.30 00:26:00 - [135] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... honestly they shouldn't have light weapons, only 1 sidearm. they already win in the slot count. that it would make the suit in-line with the rest. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 7 1/3 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 201	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:38:00 - [136] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: Slen Kaleth wrote: Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles. U.S. Marine medics are U.S. Navy Corpmen. They train as medical personnel before being assigned to a marine unit, if they are to be a Marine medic. So, what you said is not always the case. They still carry a weapon... They will still engage in combat unless they are providing medical assistance. To quote my doc during my time in the Marines, "The best way I can help you guys out if you're wounded is to kill the enemy."
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.03 06:06:00 - [137] - Quote Slen Kaleth wrote: Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles. U.S. Marine medics are U.S. Navy Corpmen. They train as medical personnel before being assigned to a marine unit, if they are to be a Marine medic. So, what you said is not always the case. Marine Medics are required to meet Marine Infantry P.T requirements
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.03 06:20:00 - [138] - Quote Another solution that's plausible would be to add yellow blueprint items into the logi class' item slots to force pg/cpu to be used as it was intended for ,and drawing away from the excess available for high/low slots. But free equipment would be unfair, and as would being forced to pay extra for the yellow blue printed items, if they were not the ones you would normally run on your logi suit. Perhaps even make them only replaceable by the same tier of gear that the suit is or by 1 below the suits' tier.. Example, the yellow bp slots of a proto logi suit could only be replaced by prototype equipment or adv gear.. Otherwise people could just exchange the yellow bps for normal nanite injectors or other equipment that has a lower cpu/pg requirement than the yellow blueprinted items. other options would be to take away the passive 10% damage buff to any weapons the logistic class suits may have equipped, or make the logistic suits unable to receive bonus' from stacked damage mods.
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 30	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:14:00 - [139] - Quote taking away the main weapon is silly. IMO - -make scanners a side arm for fitting ( take away that tool from logi's bar ammar) -wait for racial suit/weapon balancing when released. ( seems logical assault suits will get weapon bonuses with all races guns out) - reduce self healing on your own nano hives by 50%
DoomLead Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 229	Posted - 2013.12.03 14:07:00 - [140] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles (Assault, AV etc) even on the frontline providing said support when it is needed not hanging around drinking tea untill it is time to lay an uplink, provide repairs, use a needle or what have you because their ability to fight is reduced. They need to be just as combat effective as other troops. If a logi is using any of the available equipment as well as killing enemys they are still doing their job and supporting the squad, team. Of course that is not set in stone as this game is still billed as sandbox and it's up to the player how they want to fit or run their suit aswell. Basically there is no right or wrong way because it is choice and opinion. Personally I carry a nano hive, repair tool and active scanner on my adv Logi, still being able to provide effective firepower and replenish ammo, armour and give intel when the squad needs it. I also play adv Assault just as much as my Logi if not more so don't dismiss this as bias please. If you think the Assault class or any other is lack luster try coming up with ways to more define their role instead. this is summed up well and i don't even play logi. truth is we should be able to play the game anyway we want

Draco Cerberus Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 561	Posted - 2013.12.04 18:08:00 - [141] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: And you would turn down being able to fit equipment more easily? Would you turn down being able to have HP? Would you turn down quicker move speed? Stop text walling. I would gladly be able to fit more equipment more easily and more hp as well as move speed but most of your wall'o'text is not suggesting anything of the sort Meeko. To what do I respond? Eh, did I break the wall o text copyright ? I'll restate it. Mirror base stats, and hi and low slots between assault and logi suits. Give logis a 15ish percent per level to fitting resources reduction on equip. The Great Wall of texts is mention it, below the links. I feel logis and assaults should differ only in equip and sidearms. Only the Amarr is strange, so it should lose a small amount of HP, or keep its speed. I feel that keeping its speed is a better suggestion for balancing it. That's all that need be done in my mind The Logi is balanced atm. You are approaching this argument from the wrong end. As for Slot Layout, that was balanced during the year of Open Beta, something that was a great benefit for a large number of people, if your input didn't get heard at that time it may have been because others had more valid arguments for the way things are now. I still don't really understand the problem with a slower than assault suit having more HP than an Assault suit Meeko, could you please offer some argument based on "fact" rather than "feeling"? Logi God in the Flesh
Draco Cerberus Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 561	Posted - 2013.12.04 18:34:00 - [142] - Quote Well after having a discussion with some friends about the nature of the heavy (fat and slow) and their relationship with a good repair tool (without it U B FuQed) I decided to play a couple rounds with a BDR repair tool. In the few short rounds I racked up more WP and Isk than in any of the rounds I had played earlier in the night, also had better by far KDR's than the rest of the night as well. Basically the problem (experienced from my end) that assaults are having is that the guys running beside the logi's are not going down, not that the LogiBro's are killing them. When my squad reloads I open fire and finish them off. When they are firing I am repping. That is what a support logi does. Closing on 20mil SP and still wondering why my KDR isn't higher but at least now I know that there is most likely a reason, I didn't have enough meat shield in front of me before. Logi God in the Flesh
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:36:00 - [143] - Quote I get swatted like a fly during pc's when wearing my logi suit. It must be the bright yellow suit acting as a bulls-eye painted on my face or something, but most of the time if we're going against a good corporation I have a .5 or .3 kdr at the end of the match. So I would say that that's pretty balanced...considering the amount of wp's I can bring in keeping others around me alive and well supplied. But in my opinion the main reason logi's go 20-0 in pub matches, is because scotty is on drugs. I.E 2 full squads of proto que syncing, or just 1 well organized proto squad, are going to r4pe a blueberry delight team softly with or without lube.
abarkrishna warravens 105	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:30:00 - [144] - Quote Fix time to kill so everyone stops armor tanking their suits. Problem solved. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:47:00 - [145] - Quote love the sig, that's why I can't wait until factional warfares' friendly fire is enable XD teach them with tough love
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:48:00 - [146] - Quote now if only there was a way to kill the blueberry that hops into your tank...
abarkrishna warravens 105	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:57:00 - [147] - Quote Just remove the guns and the seat no longer exists! No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.06 11:08:00 - [148] - Quote yea i tried that one day, but got an invalid fitting message. :(
abarkrishna warravens 106	Posted - 2013.12.06 11:30:00 - [149] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: yea i tried that one day, but got an invalid fitting message. :( That is because it is a feature coming in 1.7 No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 25	Posted - 2013.12.06 11:39:00 - [150] - Quote nice, probably should go give that post a quick review

Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:06:00 - [151] - Quote Removing the light weapon option from the logi suit is a bad idea to begin with. Don't blame the players for fitting their suit the way they want it. Oh he was a logi that killed me with a duvolle or he was a logi that killed me with a SCR. Stop beating on the dead horse.Here's how I see it, If you taken away the light weapon: 1.) The true logi bros are being punished for QQers. People are so focused on people using the logi suits as assault suits that majority of the people playing DUST fail to put the real logi bros in the equation. It's like football, on any given sunday any suit will beat anyone at any given time. 2.) If you needed back-up too bad, I just do not have the firepower to take on two or four guys. It'll be harder for me to revive you yet along give you cover fire if I cannot repair you. Let's run a hypothetical, say there was a sniper looking dead at you and I see him. If I had my GEK, I would shoot at him to force his attention on me to where you could get away potentially killing him. Give me nothing but a side-arm, he wouldn't care getting hit and you would be dead or massively injured. 3.) This would bring up another dead horse of the DUST community asking for a re-spec and you know that I know that the minority would say no 4.) Once we're out of ammo and nano hives and nowhere near an ammo supply depot, we are screwed. with the exception of the Amarr Logi. In the past year of playing as a Minmatar Logi, I want to say 25-35% of my deaths came from side-arm slots from heavys, ASSAULTS, and scouts. What do I have as a backup weapon? A grenade and that's it. 5.) A serious decrease in TRUE LOGIBROS. Yea this would kill the assault logi but at the same time you are killing off the true logibro. When that happens, there will be no medics on the battlefield meaning if you died your dead. End of story. Also keep in mind that the heavy, assault, and scout suits only have one equipment slot. With that said good luck reviving people since people will refuse to run the suit. 6.) People who invested their time into that will have two options on their mind. Should I go to a new suit or just quit DUST 514? A good amount would quit thus seeing a decrease in the game population which will not look good on CCP's end. TL:DR? Removing the light weapon from logi suits will have people QQ"ing for respecs, the will be less than 2% of medics on the field, people running proto will lose isk faster without the true logi bros since it will be harder reviving you. Is this what you want? If so you are on your way of effectively making DUST another Call Of Duty.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:08:00 - [152] - Quote BTW I also run a Minmatar Assault
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2171	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:16:00 - [153] - Quote How does this thread keep coming back? At no point was this a good idea. Hail Satan
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:20:00 - [154] - Quote dent 308 wrote: How does this thread keep coming back? At no point was this a good idea. Because CCP was actually looking into it. Not that they're going to do it.
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 5	Posted - 2013.12.17 19:10:00 - [155] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... I see what you want to do, but a simpler fix would be what they do in eve: damage bonuses. Ships that are meant to do damage (ie: assault class, etc.) get bonus to weapon damage. This would have to be counteracted by a weapon stat modification in the opposite direction (ie: reduce damage from 30 to 20, but add a 50% damage bonus to a certain class). This would be needed so that TTK wouldn't be further lowered. The logis could then still use a primary weapon, but they would be somewhat less effective than an assault. The numbers don't have to be as drastic as the above example, its for simple presentation purposes only.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 708	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:01:00 - [156] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: dent 308 wrote: How does this thread keep coming back? At no point was this a good idea. Because CCP was actually looking into it. Not that they're going to do it. You have to read a little further. They were never considering that seriously, CCP just picked the worst possible thread to link to when stating they were going to adjust logi suits - by giving equipment related bonuses, not in any way shape or form changing their weapon slots. NOW LET THIS THREAD DIE! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Divu Aakmin UN3VERSAL BONDAGE 34	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:13:00 - [157] - Quote Horrible idea. All these differences in class and most people say logi is better in every regard aside sidearm. What about base hp and movement speed? Movement speed is huge. Small differences have huge benefits for retreating and advancing. Logi should be behind everyone just on account of our already slow speed... versatility should go hand in hand with logistics. We can pigeon holed into defenseless. Assault have upper hand for assaults already. Maybe a bit more pg/cpu or some un worthless assault suit. Something equivalent to 1 hps. BTW if we are taking huge dps from logi we sure as hell deserve more HPS. A person witb repper should hps of at least one person dps. Perhaps a tad more. Duvolle base dmg output is 467.5 dps with no mods ir prof. Right now dps> than hps. That is why logi stack up for armor and dps. It is better for everyone in the squad.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 689	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:14:00 - [158] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... they should be allowed to fit heavy weapons instead https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2468	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:17:00 - [159] - Quote LET THIS THREAD DIE IN A HOLE ALREADY!!!!!! IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!!! Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Divu Aakmin UN3VERSAL BONDAGE 34	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:05:00 - [160] - Quote Ccp linked this thread in "Feedback/Request." They are considering a way to balance...

Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2484	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:08:00 - [161] - Quote Divu Aakmin wrote: Ccp linked this thread in "Feedback/Request." They are considering a way to balance... Yes but they also stated that they will not remove light weapons from logis so case closed, thread can die now. Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
maeth-01 2501 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:09:00 - [162] - Quote But I wanna keep my CHARGE/ THALE, LOGI, 5 DMG mod fit :( Please don't..... *Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone*
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2484	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:12:00 - [163] - Quote maeth-01 2501 wrote: But I wanna keep my CHARGE/ THALE, LOGI, 5 DMG mod fit :( Please don't..... It's because of players like you, they are looking at a nerf for logis..... Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 73	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:25:00 - [164] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: maeth-01 2501 wrote: But I wanna keep my CHARGE/ THALE, LOGI, 5 DMG mod fit :( Please don't..... It's because of players like you, they are looking at a nerf for logis..... 2nd that, and this is coming from a Logi
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2487	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:27:00 - [165] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: maeth-01 2501 wrote: But I wanna keep my CHARGE/ THALE, LOGI, 5 DMG mod fit :( Please don't..... It's because of players like you, they are looking at a nerf for logis..... 2nd that, and this is coming from a Logi I'm a logi too :p Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
maeth-01 2501 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.12.30 21:57:00 - [166] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Dj grammer wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: maeth-01 2501 wrote: But I wanna keep my CHARGE/ THALE, LOGI, 5 DMG mod fit :( Please don't..... It's because of players like you, they are looking at a nerf for logis..... 2nd that, and this is coming from a Logi I'm a logi too :p :D At the end of the day I could run it on my Proto Basic suit or Proto Assault suit. may lose 3% DMG...... but if I only want to carry one weapon in this match I would be stupid not to use a Logi Suit if it suits my needs..... not my fault people can use there brains and make the most of there fits........ Remember its a Sand Box game (I believe that's what people say) *Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone*
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:58:00 - [167] - Quote have you ever used a logi suit of any kind?? I have, that nice bright yellow color scheme means I am the first person any enemy fighter will kill off because I can repair and revive my team mates. logi is fine the way it is.. yes people use proto logi as ubber strong assault infantry.. but they are also targeted for first to die by most people who know what they are capable of doing. there is much worse things in the game that needs addressing first and not logi. i.e.. the deployable equipment issue that cause dreadful lag etc.
Mordecai Snake Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 16	Posted - 2013.12.31 01:45:00 - [168] - Quote There should be a sidearm only heavy Logi with 1500 HP and 5 equipment slots.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1441	Posted - 2013.12.31 02:04:00 - [169] - Quote Ugh. CCP isn't actually considering this as a viable solution, please take the time to actually read what they said and ignore the very poorly chosen thread they linked to. PLEASE let this thread die already. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 100	Posted - 2013.12.31 02:07:00 - [170] - Quote Let this thread die already. I'm sick of getting likes from it... ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQTSTALLION... I AM THE STALLION

bogeyman m Immortal Guides 1	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:19:00 - [171] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: what about remove wp from weapon kills for logi suits but remove equipment from all other suits. fair tradeoff Or, less absolute, just reward kills by Logis at 50% and reward equip use by everyone else at 50%.
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 686	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:13:00 - [172] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? I try to pick them up off the ground, have a needle and find this clears my path so I don't step on anyone. LogiGod earns his pips
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 689	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:30:00 - [173] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: what about remove wp from weapon kills for logi suits but remove equipment from all other suits. fair tradeoff Or, less absolute, just reward kills by Logis at 50% and reward equip use by everyone else at 50%. No. LogiGod earns his pips
Tom Hamp Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 6	Posted - 2014.01.15 09:14:00 - [174] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Small turrets Vs Light weapon ? I damn fcking agree !!!!! (I'm a Logi) Logi are for Support and Support fire. What else if we have small Turrets ? (Like Borderlands). They could use the AI of actuale turrets to make them work. We could have types of turrets for each Race. (Each type have STD/ADV/PRO.) Normal version :We can have 2 they have a big ammo pool (Bigger if Proto or Advanced even 2 at the same time if Proto):* Amarr : Shoots scramblers (Like scrambler assault) Mid range. => High durabiliy Armor / Shield => High RoF => Big so easy to shoot Caldari : Shoots Rail rifle (Like the future Rail rifle) => long range => High Shield Low Armor => Low RoF. Gallente : Shoots Plasma (Like tha Plasma rifle) => Short Range => High armor low shield => High RoF. Minmatarr : Shoots Bullets (Like SMG or HMG) => Short range => Low ehp => Really high RoF => Smaller (Harder to shoot). Heavy Version : Only one (2 at Proto level) low Ammo pool (Skills can make them more durable). Amarr : 2 Lasers Cannon (Like the lasers rifle but two of them) => Mid-Long Range (60) => High DPS => High resistance (at least 600eHp.) => But they Overheat if they fire too much. Caldari : Small Forge gun (150-200 of damage) => Low roF => Long range (75Meters) Gallente : 2 small Plasma Cannon : (250 of damage shoots twice but are easy to dodge and need a load time) => Short range (30 meters). Minmatarr : 1 small Mass driver (Damage ar the same as a mass driver but divided by twice.) => Mid range. Range : Start shooting when an ennemy is in sight AND in Range : Short Range : 0-15meters. Mid range : 0-25 Mid-Long : 5-35 (Don't shoot if too close) Long Range : 10-50 sounds awesome to me hell that's my s**t man I definitely skill into that it be good for commando class also if ya think about it. the sentinel AK.0 heavy pointmen of defense


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