DUST Search - What if... Logis couldn't use light weapons?

Meeko Fent wrote:

Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ)

Cal Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing

Cal Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing

Gal Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing

Gal Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing

Min Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing

Min Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing

Amarr Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing

Amarr Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing

As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed.

The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it.

The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front.

The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead.

The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead.

However, they have an boost of HP.

Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant

Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant

Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant.

Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots

While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace.

So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective.

Balanced you say?


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Mordecai Sanguine What The French 121	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:43:00 - [1] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Small turrets Vs Light weapon ? I damn fcking agree !!!!! (I'm a Logi) Logi are for Support and Support fire. What else if we have small Turrets ? (Like Borderlands). They could use the AI of actuale turrets to make them work. We could have types of turrets for each Race. (Each type have STD/ADV/PRO.) Normal version :We can have 2 they have a big ammo pool (Bigger if Proto or Advanced even 2 at the same time if Proto):* Amarr : Shoots scramblers (Like scrambler assault) Mid range. => High durabiliy Armor / Shield => High RoF => Big so easy to shoot Caldari : Shoots Rail rifle (Like the future Rail rifle) => long range => High Shield Low Armor => Low RoF. Gallente : Shoots Plasma (Like tha Plasma rifle) => Short Range => High armor low shield => High RoF. Minmatarr : Shoots Bullets (Like SMG or HMG) => Short range => Low ehp => Really high RoF => Smaller (Harder to shoot). Heavy Version : Only one (2 at Proto level) low Ammo pool (Skills can make them more durable). Amarr : 2 Lasers Cannon (Like the lasers rifle but two of them) => Mid-Long Range (60) => High DPS => High resistance (at least 600eHp.) => But they Overheat if they fire too much. Caldari : Small Forge gun (150-200 of damage) => Low roF => Long range (75Meters) Gallente : 2 small Plasma Cannon : (250 of damage shoots twice but are easy to dodge and need a load time) => Short range (30 meters). Minmatarr : 1 small Mass driver (Damage ar the same as a mass driver but divided by twice.) => Mid range. Range : Start shooting when an ennemy is in sight AND in Range : Short Range : 0-15meters. Mid range : 0-25 Mid-Long : 5-35 (Don't shoot if too close) Long Range : 10-50
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 123	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:19:00 - [2] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. [/quote] Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective than Amarr at combat so why they are more powerful ???
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 125	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 - [3] - Quote I really like the idea of "Deployable turrets". But not as equipement but as a Weapon. Because using a equipement slot for them will be meaningless. Make a New types of weapon. Light / Sidearms / Heavy / Deployable. Heavy is only for Heavy Suit and Deployable for Logi suits. Then make Turrets being available in these slots. AND as you said for turrets what about the Drones we see in the trailers ? You have two category (for the moment) in Deployable (Can be reloaded with Nanohives). : Turrets : (Some of these could have some protective shield like Nanohives bubble) one for each race with differant weapons on and eHp => Special ability (Minmatarr can have 2 at the same time Caldari got some bubble shield that can protect him etcetc....) Drones : Follow you and shoot at the ennemy. And Sidearms. What do you think ?
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 155	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:13:00 - [4] - Quote Quote: Logi's are out killing assaults because these players are the oldest players with that much SP to make the suit combat effective with LVL5 PROFICIENCIES to WEAPONS.......WORKING AS INTENDED HTFU Get like us an get you a logi suit and cross class...oh wait you dont want to support the team at all. You're only concerned about your own kill count and your own personal stats you 1 dimensional scrubs. Finally someone who understand !!!!! OP logis are the most of the time more pwerful than assault because they have more SP than Assaults !!!!!! I'm a freakin 16 millions SP with my Logi suits i just make triple kill of assaults BUT these assaults are freakin' noobs with 2 million Sp that's NORMAL i rip them out..... Take A Logi suits and a Assault suit with SAME skills and you'll see the Assault is better in every part !!!!!! Making a Logi suits takes a Lot of SP. A lot of Logi are Veterans players they have huge passive skills. To JUST have Logi Proto AND Proto equipements it needs like 6-7 Million of SP. OF COURSE We are better than you after because we optimized the class to it's best using Skills where we needed it. We got proficiency. We takes skills in what we are good for. We used tons of Sp to HELP THE TEAM. In reality the real Logi problem is not the suits it's the frustrated assualt that has become logi and playing it as a slayers not as it's intended. A real Logi fitting Real Equipements CAN'T MAKE SLAYERS SUITS. Real Logi are balanced. False logi playing slayers are not. Punish them not all of us. (PG/CPU restrictions only for equipements or something else dunno)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 157	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:36:00 - [5] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. The first role is actually the Amarr Logi. That's why i choosed. To be support fire. (More than medical trooper)