DUST Search - What if... Logis couldn't use light weapons?

Draco Cerberus wrote:

Mia Romani wrote:

Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly...

Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas...

My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots.

Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional...

Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about.

The problem is the limit, not the additional gear, such as deployable turrets. Being a combat engineer means needing to be mobile, and putting a limit on what should be fit in that weapon slot is certainly an issue for someone who wants to be mobile. Having the option to fit a sidearm is why I got the Toxin SMG, because they do work. Even a heavy can, if they so choose, fit a Light weapon or Sidearm in their Heavy Weapon slot.

As for the assault being underwhelming, all the suits are, I have chosen my specialization for my own reasons and others for theirs but currently all suits need some sort of HP buff. The TTK is too short in so many cases that its a wonder that people still use Proto in Pub matches. You say there is a problem with the assault suits and instead of suggesting some kind of buff to them you suggest that the Logi be limited in a way that many of us are not prepared to accept as a reasonable change. What would you do if we suggested that the Assault be limited to only light weapons and one less weapon slot?

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:59:00 - [91] - Quote Change the Logi and Ill go assault and like I said 17 million sp will now be free from dropsuit Upgrades for me to put into weaponry.So you think about how many LVL 5 proficiencies that'll buy me. Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:25:00 - [92] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: only iff you increase the range of sidearms on logi suits to compensate. must match AR range just to be fair :) Unerf the flaylock AGREED!!! Unnerf that **** NOW
T'orq DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:31:00 - [93] - Quote Hey guys, as a logi, I disagree with logis being OP.I might not know what I am talk9ng about but here goes nothing. Logis get killed quickly by militia suits, and more quickly by assault suits and heavy suits. Take away our light weapon, and we are as good as dead. You guys talk about 1v1 fights when it is normally more than 1 team mate and enemy. If one of you team dies and needs a rez, a logi needs the damage of a light weapon to kill the enemy to rezz his team mate. The lack of a sidearm gives all other suits an advantage, because if the enemy runs out of ammo in their light weapon they can switch to their side arm, while if a logi runs out he is dead. It has happened to me multiple times. I don't run weapon upgrades, because that is not what I like. If you want a solution all that is needed is to make it impossible for logis to use weapon damage modules. Simple as that.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 83	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:34:00 - [94] - Quote (removing light weapons)Its just he dumbest thing I ve ever heard....straight up.....who in the hell would play this class? Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 484	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:36:00 - [95] - Quote Every ******** that comes up with this idea doesen't realize that without light weapons logis won't be able to kill the guy that just killed you. So you will a) get rezzed and then diea gain, and you will whine even more on the forum because "bad logis should kill people before rezzing!!!1!!!11!" b) you don't get rezzed at all, and you come on the forum crying that noone rezzd your 150k isk full proto assault armor You weren't there when Nanite Injectors were broken and didn't show fallen teammates. You weren't there when rezzing somenone gave less WP than a kill. I was. And i carried a nanite even if it was extra hard to use and had poor reward. You didn't see the assault dudes raging because they weren't rezzed, you didn't see people whining because they lost 10 proto suit because noone rezzed them. I was. If ccp listen to this stupid idea of you dickheads you will cry WAAAAAAY MORE than logis will. And i will still kill you all, even with a sidearm only. Mordus Private Trials Veteran, logibro from the E3 2012 build. I will adapt, and you will die.
lionshead nebula The Exemplars Top Men. 3	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:39:00 - [96] - Quote The problem with slayer logi fits is they forgo all of the equipment slots and use that extra pg and CPU for tank. Instead of making a light weapon a requirement for the logi suit, make the requirement for a valid fitting logi suit: filling all equipment slots with equipment. Do the math add up how much CPU and pg cost those three to four slots will cost, even at standard, then look at shield extenders and armor plates. Plus, you can use however much tank you want, if your terrible cqc, that health isn't going to help you much.
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:48:00 - [97] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. The problem is the limit, not the additional gear, such as deployable turrets. Being a combat engineer means needing to be mobile, and putting a limit on what should be fit in that weapon slot is certainly an issue for someone who wants to be mobile. Having the option to fit a sidearm is why I got the Toxin SMG, because they do work. Even a heavy can, if they so choose, fit a Light weapon or Sidearm in their Heavy Weapon slot. As for the assault being underwhelming, all the suits are, I have chosen my specialization for my own reasons and others for theirs but currently all suits need some sort of HP buff. The TTK is too short in so many cases that its a wonder that people still use Proto in Pub matches. You say there is a problem with the assault suits and instead of suggesting some kind of buff to them you suggest that the Logi be limited in a way that many of us are not prepared to accept as a reasonable change. What would you do if we suggested that the Assault be limited to only light weapons and one less weapon slot? give this man a medal
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:50:00 - [98] - Quote umm how are 2 gernade slots going to work. P.S. i am going to do what I did in Chromosome if this happens..Stand on a Triage Hive and a Ishoukone hive but instead of spamming MD I am going to spam the **** outta nades. ANd then ull be back on the forms begging to nerf nades cuz ur scrub ass couldnt take it. (Do nades benefit from any dmg mods?)
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:52:00 - [99] - Quote lionshead nebula wrote: The problem with slayer logi fits is they forgo all of the equipment slots and use that extra pg and CPU for tank. Instead of making a light weapon a requirement for the logi suit, make the requirement for a valid fitting logi suit: filling all equipment slots with equipment. Do the math add up how much CPU and pg cost those three to four slots will cost, even at standard, then look at shield extenders and armor plates. Plus, you can use however much tank you want, if your terrible cqc, that health isn't going to help you much. Ummm some logis have more equipment than others..Do we need to fill them all? Also umm our ISK...that makes Assaults not caring about Isk as much as we do. I carry 2-3 equipment (3 since scanner) and leave the other 2 empty. It is too much ISK. And in a PC the needle is useless...if you say it is useful you never been in a good corp and fought against other good corps...It will only be useful when instakill clones are removed.
Dachande Anasazi Imperfect Bastards 111	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:09:00 - [100] - Quote 843-BANE wrote: Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... would u like 4 equipment slots keep your assault bonus? and the extra low slot is used for a cpu anyways. Yes I use equipment.. And and the same cpu and PG? fair enough? btw I dont need a sidearm cuz I aint QQing. So makign the only difference between us is that i have ONE extra low slot... Listen here. I spent my SP on EQUIPMENT while you should have spent it on Weapons prof and all that good stuff. In th elong game I have spent more SP to run my suit than u have urs. THEN my equipment also cost more isk. More isk and more SP...I think I hsould be abel to kill you. U only buy a suit..mods and the guns..I buy al that PLUS the equipment which I had to skill INTO too.

Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 83	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 - [101] - Quote Dachande Anasazi wrote: 843-BANE wrote: Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... would u like 4 equipment slots keep your assault bonus? and the extra low slot is used for a cpu anyways. Yes I use equipment.. And and the same cpu and PG? fair enough? btw I dont need a sidearm cuz I aint QQing. So makign the only difference between us is that i have ONE extra low slot... Listen here. I spent my SP on EQUIPMENT while you should have spent it on Weapons prof and all that good stuff. In th elong game I have spent more SP to run my suit than u have urs. THEN my equipment also cost more isk. More isk and more SP...I think I hsould be abel to kill you. U only buy a suit..mods and the guns..I buy al that PLUS the equipment which I had to skill INTO too. Yeah they dont get it cuz they dont have the SP and there one demensional minds cant grasp the concept Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 155	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:13:00 - [102] - Quote Quote: Logi's are out killing assaults because these players are the oldest players with that much SP to make the suit combat effective with LVL5 PROFICIENCIES to WEAPONS.......WORKING AS INTENDED HTFU Get like us an get you a logi suit and cross class...oh wait you dont want to support the team at all. You're only concerned about your own kill count and your own personal stats you 1 dimensional scrubs. Finally someone who understand !!!!! OP logis are the most of the time more pwerful than assault because they have more SP than Assaults !!!!!! I'm a freakin 16 millions SP with my Logi suits i just make triple kill of assaults BUT these assaults are freakin' noobs with 2 million Sp that's NORMAL i rip them out..... Take A Logi suits and a Assault suit with SAME skills and you'll see the Assault is better in every part !!!!!! Making a Logi suits takes a Lot of SP. A lot of Logi are Veterans players they have huge passive skills. To JUST have Logi Proto AND Proto equipements it needs like 6-7 Million of SP. OF COURSE We are better than you after because we optimized the class to it's best using Skills where we needed it. We got proficiency. We takes skills in what we are good for. We used tons of Sp to HELP THE TEAM. In reality the real Logi problem is not the suits it's the frustrated assualt that has become logi and playing it as a slayers not as it's intended. A real Logi fitting Real Equipements CAN'T MAKE SLAYERS SUITS. Real Logi are balanced. False logi playing slayers are not. Punish them not all of us. (PG/CPU restrictions only for equipements or something else dunno)
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 259	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:57:00 - [103] - Quote ******** idea. I use that light weapon slot for my beloved MD. I have been a masshole since the beginning of Chromosome and I would be quite disappointed if it was removed. Logis should just have a much higher CPU/PG requirement for damage mods.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:16:00 - [104] - Quote I support logi side arm only *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1383	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:31:00 - [105] - Quote OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. Cheeseburgers.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 157	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:36:00 - [106] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. The first role is actually the Amarr Logi. That's why i choosed. To be support fire. (More than medical trooper)
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1779	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:42:00 - [107] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: OK, last time I post this suggestion: Divide Logis into 2 roles. Logis keep Light Weapon, gain Sidearm Lose 1 equipment slot Create Medic role Exchange Light Weapon for Sidearm Lose grenades Keep 3 equipment slots Tactical roles don't need 3 equipment slots Medics don't need rifles More Roles. More Content. Less Pigeonholing. And, without getting that slow and useless "Art Department" involved. No. My amarr logi must keep its light weapon + sidearm layout as that's it's defining feature. The way I see it, the amarr logi and assault are the only balanced suits in the game....aside from min logi. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 85	Posted - 2013.11.27 01:55:00 - [108] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Lol dude they got no clue what their in for, 3 complex dam scr pistol, core nades an remotes an hives an scanners, lol
ZEROBLOOM Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:15:00 - [109] - Quote If this dumbness happens just because some ppl cry and whine cause they cant play the game then... I for one will no longer spend $ on this great game nor play it again... I am a gal logi... I play my role and kill... I support and I slaughter... U cry babies are ruining this game... Period.... If our millitary forces did this... Well it wouldnt be pretty... Hell most medics ive seen carry bigger weapons than regular classes... Bad idea ccp to cater to the cry babies... If anything improve the assualt class to help the class... The bonuses for the assult classes suck tbh
Cosgar ParagonX 8023	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:16:00 - [110] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Lol dude they got no clue what their in for, 3 complex dam scr pistol, core nades an remotes an hives an scanners, lol Imagine if we got raw input for kb/m too. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 360	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:30:00 - [111] - Quote ZEROBLOOM wrote: If this dumbness happens just because some ppl cry and whine cause they cant play the game then... I for one will no longer spend $ on this great game nor play it again... I am a gal logi... I play my role and kill... I support and I slaughter... U cry babies are ruining this game... Period.... If our millitary forces did this... Well it wouldnt be pretty... Hell most medics ive seen carry bigger weapons than regular classes... Bad idea ccp to cater to the cry babies... If anything improve the assualt class to help the class... The bonuses for the assult classes suck tbh Right. Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 570	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:53:00 - [112] - Quote I like it. Please have a look at this. Munch What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 570	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:54:00 - [113] - Quote I like it. Please have a look at this. Munch What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Legion of Eden Covert Intervention 1	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:12:00 - [114] - Quote Most people here don't want to see logi balanced, they want us to be their b.... I've got 19 mln SP almost all sacraficed for ammar logi. Got 3 weapons : AR, Laser and Swarms. The only fit that I got 3 complex damage mods are swarms because I got low prof skill ( on laser as well but I wear 2 cdm on it). AR is my weapon of choice. Got prof 4 so I need only one complex damage mode. And no sidearm. because I need more hp. Usually I equip 40hp/s nano (88cpu/16pg) 80% injector and core rep tool. Those 3 equipments have same cpu/pg usage as all slots for heavy all together. I'm not using sidearm on my ammar because I havn't got enaugh cpu/pg. I got core skill for both of them on lvl 5, cpu lvl 4, pg lvl 4. My low slots are filled with basic armor plates due to my eq. Other thing is as a PS Plus member I received free Exile AR blueprint (I use it most time) and I bought merc pack wth Toxin one. Those will be useless for me. My only sidearm weapon is scrambler pistol (lvl1) and flylock (lvl3). How is it going to be fair for us if I reached to lvl5 with almost all eq available and I don't have any better sidearm weapon to defend myself now.?? CCP please don't nerf logi. Give restriction that all eq slots need to be filled and there must be min cpu/pg amount spent for eq only. That will force logis to be logis. Don't blame all of us if only small % of logis are not ok. Also please make sniper rifle available only for assault and scouts. Proto logi with sniper is peace of s... and makes me laugh.
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Top Men. 50	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:08:00 - [115] - Quote This **** again? Logi is a suit type, not a role, and punishing players for finding creative ways to use the suit is absurd. But okay, if we've decided to force players to use a suit type in a specific way, let's remove the equipment slot from assault suits. They also shouldn't be able to use dampeners. That's a scout thing. No hacking modules, either. In fact, why can they hack at all? That's really a logi job. Oh, and scouts shouldnt be able to use armor or shield modules, only dampeners and sensors.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 234	Posted - 2013.11.27 17:46:00 - [116] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? I don't know many logies that use assault rifles, a reduction in flexibility however is not desired. I've been using a logi since the beginning and I've only been using the weapon that is most useful to me and is most efficient, this is the smg and not the assault rifle but for some people it is, the problem right now is that the assault rifle is the god gun. A sidearm only logistics suit doesn't leave us with many options and it also doesn't solve the problem because sidearms are pretty damn powerful on their own, the only difference is the range and bringing all logies to close range so that logies who prefer to fight at long range (which is probably just more effective for playing a support role) are discouraged to be support players. The problem is the guns and their power and lack of balance and the fact that the other suits don't really have any outstanding unique qualities, don't blame the logi for that it's a developer mistake. Make the other suits better, I'll tell ya right now even if heavies get a 25% buff to health and assaults get a big damage increase and scouts get more speed or whatever the hell they want to do to improve these roles, I'll still stick with logi, there's no reason to make using a logi a pain in the ass for some people.
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 322	Posted - 2013.11.27 22:38:00 - [117] - Quote we only have ourselves to blames for this nerf. level 0 forum warrior self-proclaimed slayer weapon of choice: GEK-38 gallante assault rifle -STB infantry
abarkrishna WarRavens 81	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:16:00 - [118] - Quote Or how about you change the assault suits bonus' to reflect their roles more effectively. Seriously if CCP takes away light weapons from logis this game will die. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1803	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:18:00 - [119] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Or how about you change the assault suits bonus' to reflect their roles more effectively. Seriously if CCP takes away light weapons from logis this game will die. Exactly, it's like saying the quarterback can play quarterback but he's not allowed to wear shoes/cleats and a helmet when he plays. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 267	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:52:00 - [120] - Quote I love this game, i run sidearm logi or Md logi. If you make logis sidearm only, then make my massdriver a sidearm. Back in chromosome it was te premier logi weapon, and nobody complained. I wanna keep it that way, so make my md a sidearm. (Though in reality i'd just run double Md assault frames.) Assaults suck. The minmatar assault is outshined by any caldari, gallente is outshined by caldaris, and amarr logi is outshined by caldaris. And i'm talking Callogi. That thing can tank 1187 Hp, proto equipments, proto weapon, and standard nade. Logis need their 5hp/s reps- which assault player is going to have a repair tool to keep up the logi? If it's that bug of a problem, make 2 logi variants. Vk.0 has sidearm, 5 equipments, and current slot layout. Vk.1 has light weapon, 1 less slot, and 4 equipments. Vk.2 has light and sidearm, 1 less slot, and 3 equipments. Make the basic meds have a variant which is part logi- 2 equipment at std,adv, and 3 at proto. Has light weapon, and less slots than assault. This would be in addition to the current med frame which has same slots, sidearm and weapon. You remove logi's light slot, i'm through with the game. -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"



Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page