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What if... Logis couldn't use light weapons?

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Mia Romani Nexus Marines 38	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:19:00 - [61] - Quote Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. Interstellar Crossroads
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4349	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:44:00 - [62] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Why not? Now with hit detection poperly working, SMG's shred things to pieces extremely quick. *Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant* *Beta Vet* *Level 4 Forum Warrior*
Cosgar ParagonX 7733	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:21:00 - [63] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? Do you really want an army of logis armed with Carthium Pistols and Ishukone SMGs? Why not? Now with hit detection poperly working, SMG's shred things to pieces extremely quick. How come when I say the assaults are better because they get sidearms, you try to downplay it, but you say they're good enough for logis? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 123	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:19:00 - [64] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. [/quote] Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective than Amarr at combat so why they are more powerful ???
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1288	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:32:00 - [65] - Quote Remove 1 Equipment slot, add sidearm, keep the Logi moniker. Implement a 3 equipment, single sidearm only, no grenades, Medic/Intel suit. More content, not less. Cheeseburgers.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 493	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:07:00 - [66] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Geeze, this thread got out of hand quickly... Everyone focused on the "sidearms only" portion of my suggestion and completely glossed over the "two grenade slots" or "deployable turrets" ideas... My line of thinking was to make the logi more of a combat engineer, modifying the battlefield to his advantage through area denial, instead of just having them be an assault with extra equipment slots. Yes, I agree with others here that the assault suit is underwhelming. Particularly because they're so... Conventional... Personally, I'd love to see the assault suit given some unique movement abilities to actually help them assault fortified locations (e.g. wall-climbing, jump-packs, short distance teleporting (a drop up-link, in grenade form), etc)... But hey, that's not what this thread is about. The problem is the limit, not the additional gear, such as deployable turrets. Being a combat engineer means needing to be mobile, and putting a limit on what should be fit in that weapon slot is certainly an issue for someone who wants to be mobile. Having the option to fit a sidearm is why I got the Toxin SMG, because they do work. Even a heavy can, if they so choose, fit a Light weapon or Sidearm in their Heavy Weapon slot. As for the assault being underwhelming, all the suits are, I have chosen my specialization for my own reasons and others for theirs but currently all suits need some sort of HP buff. The TTK is too short in so many cases that its a wonder that people still use Proto in Pub matches. You say there is a problem with the assault suits and instead of suggesting some kind of buff to them you suggest that the Logi be limited in a way that many of us are not prepared to accept as a reasonable change. What would you do if we suggested that the Assault be limited to only light weapons and one less weapon slot? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:29:00 - [67] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective than Amarr at combat so why they are more powerful ??? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 494	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:37:00 - [68] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for equipements (25-30%). And others Logi should be less effective th... *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:41:00 - [69] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing Cal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing Gal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing Gal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing Min Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing Min Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing Amarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing Amarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? Look at the min logi spread. Just need dem fitting skills. Well i really don't see the problem with the Amarr Logi Suit. (I'm logi Amarr). As you said we won 167eHp for a lose of stamina. BUT in your Amarr Logi fitting you forgot to fit all the equipements Slots. (Oh yes a Nanite who cost 2PG ). Fit all equipement slots with Advanced / Proto equipements like i do you'll see your eHp get melted so fast. So : Triage BDR-8 : 8PG cost. Flux N-11 Drop uplinks : 11PG. Nanohives K-2 : 7PG. So in fact with equipement slot (There's nothing Proto in these 3 equipement). We are under the Amarr assault suit in every Part. And we are weakier than other Logis suits. While Amarr Logi is supposed to be the Combat Logi suit...... (A secondary dont make a suit for battle......) As you see the problem is how the PG/CPU are used in Logi fitting. The solution would be to "Lock" part of Pg-CPU ONLY for ... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Eris Ernaga State Patriots 688	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:10:00 - [70] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Logis don't need a nerf assaults need a buff and not in stats but pg and cpu to make there fittings works that's what I am taking in so far after pre fitting my minmitar assault. Ba bang baby

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 495	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:35:00 - [71] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: And you would turn down being able to fit equipment more easily? Would you turn down being able to have HP? Would you turn down quicker move speed? Stop text walling. I would gladly be able to fit more equipment more easily and more hp as well as move speed but most of your wall'o'text is not suggesting anything of the sort Meeko. To what do I respond? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 129	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:48:00 - [72] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: [quote=Mia Romani]Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... Make it a beacon that you have to protect for a few moments while it calls down a small turret from the WB. Anyone under Iit when it lands gets killed. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1809	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:45:00 - [73] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Of course, they'd need to get something else in exchange, such as an additional grenade slot, or the ability to deploy small turrets from their equipment slots... But still, it would be nice to see much more differentiation between Logi and Assault suits... How is this still a topic? We put this to bed countless times before I had my little break from the forums and now this topic is back but with no new support, data or analysis to describe why or how it's even called for much less why and how it's the optimal solution or a proper use of development resources at this stage of the game. Show me via competitive normalized fits (i.e. with the Logi suit being built to at least meet all the base stats of the Assault suit prior to additional specialization) within the same race (because anything else is apples to oranges) where any balance disparity exists and then further how this solution addresses that purported disparity while not created a new one. Remember when making this analysis that total SP investment and total ISK per fit cost are both vital to be listed. I await the opportunity to review fittings from anyone in support of this idea. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
DEZKA DIABLO Unkn0wn Killers 35	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:58:00 - [74] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Buff assaults by giving them passive damage bonuses to weapons (as mentioned above) or two grenade slots. Ummmm how about no! In uprising ccp gave everyone back the 10% weaponry damage, plus you get 15% frOm proficiency 5, then you get 10% from a mod, that's 35% damage without penalty, two more complex mods is almost 50% damage that means a AR bullet is almost 50 HP a shot an a scr is almost 100 HP per shot! So really you think logistics is bad, what your asking for is worse, not to mention, core nade tossers inside nano hives with two nade slots! Say what you mean, you want logistics to not carry rifles, I'm sure you could care less about a shotgunner logi.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1598	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:07:00 - [75] - Quote How about assaults can't use their grenades? My amarr logi is defined by its ability to have a sidearm so limiting logis to secondary weapons, what would make my suit special? "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 125	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 - [76] - Quote I really like the idea of "Deployable turrets". But not as equipement but as a Weapon. Because using a equipement slot for them will be meaningless. Make a New types of weapon. Light / Sidearms / Heavy / Deployable. Heavy is only for Heavy Suit and Deployable for Logi suits. Then make Turrets being available in these slots. AND as you said for turrets what about the Drones we see in the trailers ? You have two category (for the moment) in Deployable (Can be reloaded with Nanohives). : Turrets : (Some of these could have some protective shield like Nanohives bubble) one for each race with differant weapons on and eHp => Special ability (Minmatarr can have 2 at the same time Caldari got some bubble shield that can protect him etcetc....) Drones : Follow you and shoot at the ennemy. And Sidearms. What do you think ?
137H4RGIC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 133	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 - [77] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: I don't get where the ideas that Logi should use sidearms only or get reduced damage come from. They are still trained soldiers and as such carry the weapons of a soldier. Yes they have a role but it doesn't necessarily mean hiding behind the other troops being everyones *****. Support can mean alot of things. I'm drawing comparisons from other games I've played here and 1 aspect of real life that doesn't interfere with this being a sci fi video game. Combat-Medics, Logistics troops whatever name you want to put on them are still 1st and foremost trained as a soldier they then train for the role after, they go on patrol / fight alongside troops with different roles (Assault, AV etc) even on the frontline providing said support when it is needed not hanging around drinking tea untill it is time to lay an uplink, provide repairs, use a needle or what have you because their ability to fight is reduced. They need to be just as combat effective as other troops. If a logi is using any of the available equipment as well as killing enemys they are still doing their job and supporting the squad, team. Of course that is not set in stone as this game is still billed as sandbox and it's up to the player how they want to fit or run their suit aswell. Basically there is no right or wrong way because it is choice and opinion. Personally I carry a nano hive, repair tool and active scanner on my adv Logi, still being able to provide effective firepower and replenish ammo, armour and give intel when the squad needs it. I also play adv Assault just as much as my Logi if not more so don't dismiss this as bias please. If you think the Assault class or any other is lack luster try coming up with ways to more define their role instead. It's simple. 1) this is an mmorpgfps, not just An mmofps. This is also a game not real life. If it was real life, we would have bullet arch, and unlimited range. But we don't. So we could raise the cost of light weapons for logis, or, lower the max pg cpu, and make sidearm weaponry dirty cheap for logis to use. Because from an mmorpg standpoint, logis are op in their versatility, combat effectiveness, putting the assault suit to shame. This is a game, not real life. Nerf the one man armies.
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1518	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:47:00 - [78] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: And you would turn down being able to fit equipment more easily? Would you turn down being able to have HP? Would you turn down quicker move speed? Stop text walling. I would gladly be able to fit more equipment more easily and more hp as well as move speed but most of your wall'o'text is not suggesting anything of the sort Meeko. To what do I respond? Eh, did I break the wall o text copyright ? I'll restate it. Mirror base stats, and hi and low slots between assault and logi suits. Give logis a 15ish percent per level to fitting resources reduction on equip. The Great Wall of texts is mention it, below the links. I feel logis and assaults should differ only in equip and sidearms. Only the Amarr is strange, so it should lose a small amount of HP, or keep its speed. I feel that keeping its speed is a better suggestion for balancing it. That's all that need be done in my mind For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Ghost Kaisar R 0 N 1 N 826	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:05:00 - [79] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Buff assaults by giving them passive damage bonuses to weapons (as mentioned above) or two grenade slots. I would be okay with this if you got rid of the assaults equipment slot. And only if we got rid of the across the board 10% damage buff. "All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:12:00 - [80] - Quote I honestly haven't been able to find the post but someone suggested requiring the equipment slots to all be full for it to be a valid Logi fit. I think this could help mitigate the Slayerlogi, though not guaranteed, you could still see Proto suits with basic equipment. I don't play as a dedicated Logi, but as a Heavy I've seen them plying their trade often enough to respect their opinions on this better than a layman like myself. Honestly, I hear a lot about the Slayerlogi, but only had 1 confirmed sighting myself, and on my alts I've been in this DUST 3 months. I've had plenty of Logis kill me, but theyre supposed to be able to!

Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1771	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:16:00 - [81] - Quote Audacious Mandate wrote: I honestly haven't been able to find the post but someone suggested requiring the equipment slots to all be full for it to be a valid Logi fit. I think this could help mitigate the Slayerlogi, though not guaranteed, you could still see Proto suits with basic equipment. I don't play as a dedicated Logi, but as a Heavy I've seen them plying their trade often enough to respect their opinions on this better than a layman like myself. Honestly, I hear a lot about the Slayerlogi, but only had 1 confirmed sighting myself, and on my alts I've been in this DUST 3 months. I've had plenty of Logis kill me, but theyre supposed to be able to! I remember that post but than what happens to my logi sniper fits (none have Dmg mods mind you) that have 2/3 equipment slots filled because I lack the pg cpu to put REs on them? "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
abarkrishna WarRavens 78	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:41:00 - [82] - Quote If this happens I will never play dust again. This is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
Chewie Parker Black Phoenix Mercenaries 55	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:49:00 - [83] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Not willing to let go of your AR logis, huh? Alright, how would you guys go about stopping the Logi suit from stepping on the Assault suit's toes? well seeings as before the introduction of the CR . the AR is the lightest option available to a logi , therfore first choice . of course us logi's will fight this ,,,, you mock killer logi's , but me personaly being a team support , infiltration logi, i always have a killer logi with me , A to help keep me safe (cheers fussy) , B to carry the 2 pieces of equipment that i cant fit in my 2 spots (scanner ,remotes) . simple ,,,,,
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 134	Posted - 2013.11.26 12:17:00 - [84] - Quote logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- The most Elite fighting force in the galaxy
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 24	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:16:00 - [85] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: logi's are already pretty defenseless on their own, and unless your an amar logi then you are pretty bad in offense. Heck yeah occasionally a logi will get a lucky shot on you and get a kill but how often do you go head to head against a logi with an assault and lose, you normally don't unless you are just really bad at the game. now i'm not talking Standard assault against proto logi, i'm talking if it was advanced against advanced or proto against proto Let's look at a Gallente Logi, and a Gallente Assault. The Logi has higher CPU/PG (Need confirmation) The Logi has an extra low slot for more armour The Logi has automatic repairs on their suit, allowing them to fit even more armour plates. The Logi has 4 equipment slots, allowing them to repair, resupply, scan and whatever else. The Assault has a sidearm. ... Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F Patron of War
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 370	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:13:00 - [86] - Quote Well, here's my $0.02. People run CalLogi instead of the assault because it gets more slots and more Grid/CPU. The solution seems simple... swap the slot layouts for the Caldari Assault and Logi. Give the assault the 5/4 layout and the logi the 4/3 layout. Step 2... swap the passive armor repair feature of the suit for a healthy bonus to both logi item output (for example, a boost to injectors, rep tool rates, armor repped by nanohives, etc)... and have this apply to all logis across the board... or a fitting bonus similar to Gallente suits, that will reduce CPU and PG needs of support modules. EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:30:00 - [87] - Quote logistics (Concise Encyclopedia) In military science, all the activities of armed-force units in support of combat units, including transport, supply, communications, and medical aid. The term, first used by Henri Jomini, Alfred Thayer Mahan, and others, was adopted by the U.S. military in World War I and gained currency in other nations in World War II. Its importance grew in the 20th century with the increasing complexity of modern warfare. The ability to mobilize large populations has escalated military demands for supplies and provisions, and sophisticated technology has added to the cost and intricacy of weapons, communications systems, and medical care, creating the need for a vast network of support systems. In World War II, for instance, only about three in 10 U.S. soldiers served in a combat role. lo-+gis-+tics noun plural but singular or plural in construction \l+ì--êjis-tiks, l+Ö-\ : the things that must be done to plan and organize a complicated activity or event that involves many people Full Definition of LOGISTICS 1 : the aspect of military science dealing with the procurement, maintenance, and transportation of military mat+¬riel, facilities, and personnel 2 : the handling of the details of an operation corps-+man noun \-êko¦çr(z)-m+Ön\ Definition of CORPSMAN 1 : an enlisted man trained to give first aid and minor medical treatment 2 : a member of a government-sponsored service corps CCP this is stupid all these people want to do is get back to assault fights and they dont want any other class being combat effective never mind that I have 32 million sp 17 million just in dropsuit upgrades. Like Ive said before it takes way more sp to achieve these results and I help my team. If you mess with the Amarr Logi Then I would request that you fix the Amarr assault and give it another low slot at proto level....I also think its funny in a reverse psycological way these people want the 2nd equipment slot back on the assault or more grenade slots when the commando has none. As far as Logi slayers (Galente Logi) that setup cost 280K ISK people arent rocking that fit as often as the QQ's or the braggers that say they have alot of cash are putting on. If you change the Logistics dropsuit to say only carry side arm you can forget about this game going anywhere no one will play logi there will be no more nano hives no more rep tools no more uplinks no more proto scanners. I am not going to waste sp into Drop suit upgrades as Ill now be playing assault and I dont need all that equipment.You can forget about this game even resembling EVE at all..... Im not going to do any support so squad leads can glory ***** off my SP with OB's while I get killed 10 times in a pub match losing ISK on fits and a loss to my KDR...LOL Fuckin get real. Logi's are out killing assaults because these players are the oldest players with that much SP to make the suit combat effective with LVL5 PROFICIENCIES to WEAPONS.......WORKING AS INTENDED HTFU Get like us an get you a logi suit and cross class...oh wait you dont want to support the team at all. You're only concerned about your own kill count and your own personal stats you 1 dimensional scrubs. CCP with Veteren players playing Logi you also help out the newbs which helps to continue healthy player population....I dont know where in that definition up there it says that a Logistics Specialist is just a medic bullet sponge.... Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
knight guard fury Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 68	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:50:00 - [88] - Quote why not either: 1. get rid of there passive regen bonus for something else or 2. give logi's 2 sidearm slots considering logi's are pretty OP with that passive regen. bonus, but i wouldnt care what happens with what because im skilled into every single thing in the game so i can easily adapt to anything and everything and id still be able to kill people with sidearms as a logi because i use scouts a lot any way so im use to killing with sidearms
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:54:00 - [89] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: why not either: 1. get rid of there passive regen bonus for something else or 2. give logi's 2 sidearm slots considering logi's are pretty OP with that passive regen. bonus, but i wouldnt care what happens with what because im skilled into every single thing in the game so i can easily adapt to anything and everything and id still be able to kill people with sidearms as a logi because i use scouts a lot any way so im use to killing with sidearms If they do this .what you have mentioned Ill turn around and put that 17 million into weaponry...... Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 359	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:56:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Logibro, It's time to speak up and provide some clarity about why you're citing this conversation on your feedback thread. Logis do not want their light weapons removed! Explain CCP's position on the matter so that we can provide our own feedback before anything actually changes.



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