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If the logistics suit were to get a nerf, what would you prefer it be?

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Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2306	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:39:00 - [1] - Quote Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2360	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:44:00 - [2] - Quote Only Sidearm, I already use an SMG and flux grenades. AKA my pattented "Flux and spray" method. If you are a real Logi, You won't find yourself in open combat anyways. "It's because of people like you that I became this. And you'll never give me a reason to become someone else."
Makuta Miserix Better Hide R Die 175	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:44:00 - [3] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. These both look good to me. If anything, the fact that some people seriously consider restricting Logi's too sidearms is saddening. PS Vita Neocom. When?...
Chit Hoppened Venomous Rat Regeneration Vendors 123	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote If anything, the WP one. The only weapon I currently have skilled is the Plasma Cannon. ******* me out of my only weapon would totally suck dicks. Also, the reason I chose my GalLogi suit was because of the equipment fitting reduction. Using a weapon that takes so much CPU, I needed a way to still be able to accommodate all my equipment. Bringing Heavy Metal to New Eden. Cannon Fever Representative
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 186	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:57:00 - [5] - Quote Less high and low slots along with an appropriate fitting reduction. Also fix the bonuses on all the suits.
Cosgar ParagonX 7126	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:57:00 - [6] - Quote Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1401	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:01:00 - [7] - Quote I'll take the weapon reduction, but lower it to 20% 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 745	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:02:00 - [8] - Quote Filled equipment slots requirement. Because it wouldn't be a nerf to real logis. An assault/light frame/heavy buff would be better though. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 263	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:02:00 - [9] - Quote Nerf is a very bad word. I dont want my worst enemy to be nerfed thats how bad i think it is.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2568	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:04:00 - [10] - Quote There needs to be a penalty for racial suits to tank outside of their specialization. Put this in and then lets see what happens to the dual tankers. (Minmatar can and should be able to use both efficiently) The newer the berry the dumber the juice.

Alpha 443-6732 202	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:05:00 - [11] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. Sidearm only, but a buff to repair tools or some other piece of equipment as a compromise. Sidearms are powerful already, just not quite as powerful or reliable as light weapons. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Roofer Madness A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 466	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:05:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. The Dust 514 AFK song Plasma Cannon FTW
Paran Tadec Ancient Exiles 1564	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:05:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. these are all awful ideas except the filling all equipment slots Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 745	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:08:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: There needs to be a penalty for racial suits to tank outside of their specialization. Put this in and then lets see what happens to the dual tankers. (Minmatar can and should be able to use both efficiently) Actually Minmatar are speed tankers. So they should get a penalty to both plates and extenders, but a bonus to kincats and rechargers/energizers. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 246	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:12:00 - [15] - Quote What bothers me about the logi suit is that it has more slots and equipment than any other suit, along with CPU and PG to fit all those slots, with its only drawback being a sidearm. The philosophy of the logi suit needs to be: (1) More customizable than all other suits--in which case its unfitted attributes should be substantially weaker than the basic and assault suits to account for more module slots. (2) More equipment-focused than other suits--in which case they should have no more module slots than the equivalent level assault suit. In either case, they're not really overpowered, so "nerf" isn't appropriate. More like "adjusting" or "re-thinking."
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 466	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:14:00 - [16] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: There needs to be a penalty for racial suits to tank outside of their specialization. That can be done via tanking modules themselves, rather than via suits. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2568	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:15:00 - [17] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: There needs to be a penalty for racial suits to tank outside of their specialization. Put this in and then lets see what happens to the dual tankers. (Minmatar can and should be able to use both efficiently) Actually Minmatar are speed tankers. So they should get a penalty to both plates and extenders, but a bonus to kincats and rechargers/energizers. In Dust, the Amarr are the dual tankers (as much as they should be damage/armor tankers) Silly me, thinking that there should be consistency between EVE and DUST as far as tactical ideology goes. In EVE Minmatar can be either (some ships more than others) and Amarr are full out Armor HP. But in DUST it's the other way around. I really need to consult CCP about this but it's probably due to their typical lolLogic. The newer the berry the dumber the juice.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2568	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:17:00 - [18] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: There needs to be a penalty for racial suits to tank outside of their specialization. That can be done via tanking modules themselves, rather than via suits. either way would be fine, doesn't matter as long as armor tanks get rewarded for going armor and shield tanks get rewarded for going shields and dual tanks get a taste of both worlds I'm fine. The newer the berry the dumber the juice.
Cosgar ParagonX 7133	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:21:00 - [19] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: What bothers me about the logi suit is that it has more slots and equipment than any other suit, along with CPU and PG to fit all those slots, with its only drawback being a sidearm. The philosophy of the logi suit needs to be: (1) More customizable than all other suits--in which case its unfitted attributes should be substantially weaker than the basic and assault suits to account for more module slots. (2) More equipment-focused than other suits--in which case they should have no more module slots than the equivalent level assault suit. In either case, they're not really overpowered, so "nerf" isn't appropriate. More like "adjusting" or "re-thinking." It was the CaLogi that was overpowered. When this whole logi gate thing started, it was nothing but CaLogis with TAC ARs. When CCP nerfed the logi suits, it was the CaLogi that took the brunt of it. People are just carrying this torch against logistics just to do it now. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 546	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:21:00 - [20] - Quote Should the logis be nerfed yet? As you said, they are too good at the moment, but I don't think you should start figuring out what nerf logis need until two things happen: * Increasing the Time-To-Kill because a low TTK makes balancing things a serious pain and reduces the fun of the game * Buff assaults. Currently the Assault class kills things just as fast as any other suit. That feels wrong to me. They should have an increased ability to attack (with some setbacks in other areas compared to other mediums like their total eHP) to define themselves as Assaults. After those two things happen and the dust settles, then I feel it will be time to see what modifications you logis need.

KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2236	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:22:00 - [21] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. Or -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
Tectonic Fusion 458	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:25:00 - [22] - Quote The only one that is needed is the Armor tankers still need a build in enhanced armor repper, and for the bonus, it needs a CPU/PG reduction. That is ALL. The Caldari Logistics can have an armor repair rate of ZERO. Solo Player
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 201	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:33:00 - [23] - Quote The +1 hp/s bonus doesn't really make much sense to me. I'd change it to 5% reduction to equipment CPU/PG usage any day. I'd also change the racial bonuses to better suit the role they're designed for. I also don't like the idea of giving racial bonuses for one piece of equipment. That really limits gameplay in a bad way. Only having a sidearm? Having equipment slots filled sounds good to me. Maybe not all of them though. Having to fit 4 pieces of equipment on a min logi would leave no room for anything else. I'd make it so you have to have 2 filled, except for the standard Amarr and Cal logis. They could just need to fill one as they only have 2 equipment slots. I'm not a great fan of changing who gets what WPs. Changing anything like this could leave a WP farming loophole open that CCP are bound to not notice. I'm not totally against reduced damage, but -50% would be FAR too much. I'd say 10% tops. Also exclude or reduce this for Amarr logis as they are combat logis. 'Insert witty signature here'
Cosgar ParagonX 7136	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:35:00 - [24] - Quote If you think this community will stop at one nerf, you're all fools! I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Hunter Junko Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 209	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:38:00 - [25] - Quote no one touch my Minmatar Suits, they dont need more weighted Duct tape >:[
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1033	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:48:00 - [26] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! DAMN RIGHT! I use a SHOTGUN cuz the scouts been sh!t for months! Every damn weapon I have has hit detection problems, you wanna fix the logi then decrease damage mod CPU pg costs on a assault, the damn thing works as intended, your not gonna solve problems by needing sh!t! For ex: Nerf the faylock fine, 3 complex damage mods, pro 5 Take logi light weapon, fine 3complex damage is smg proficiency 5, then it's gonna be nerf smg! Fill equip slots, fine some dudes gonna use 4 compact nano hives. You guys are fukin stupid, someone will always come up wit a new way, you wanna wreck the damn game when logi been the best suit ALWAYS, an you just realized? Sick of this$hit
Grease Spillett Ancient Exiles 9	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:50:00 - [27] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. I'd buff them
Defy Gravity Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:50:00 - [28] - Quote Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1033	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:52:00 - [29] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: The +1 hp/s bonus doesn't really make much sense to me. I'd change it to 5% reduction to equipment CPU/PG usage any day. I'd also change the racial bonuses to better suit the role they're designed for. I also don't like the idea of giving racial bonuses for one piece of equipment. That really limits gameplay in a bad way. Only having a sidearm? Having equipment slots filled sounds good to me. Maybe not all of them though. Having to fit 4 pieces of equipment on a min logi would leave no room for anything else. I'd make it so you have to have 2 filled, except for the standard Amarr and Cal logis. They could just need to fill one as they only have 2 equipment slots. I'm not a great fan of changing who gets what WPs. Changing anything like this could leave a WP farming loophole open that CCP are bound to not notice. I'm not totally against reduced damage, but -50% would be FAR too much. I'd say 10% tops. Also exclude or reduce this for Amarr logis as they are combat logis. How does it not make sense? Who reps logi bro? When all his hives are gone an he's rep tooling you who reps him? God you guys are idiots!
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1033	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:58:00 - [30] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) So logi can't use shotgun? Can't use mass driver? Can go to depot an get swarm launcher cuz stupid assault teammates never skilled one? Think about what your asking for! Remove AR is what you want , let's be honest, what you gonna do when logis start spamming core nades , an remotes an faylocks with 4 damage mods , need that too? Think !

Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 208	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:00:00 - [31] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. Take the yellow off.
OSGR Valdez MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 72	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:02:00 - [32] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: The only one that is needed is the Armor tankers still need a build in enhanced armor repper, and for the bonus, it needs a CPU/PG reduction. That is ALL. The Caldari Logistics can have an armor repair rate of ZERO. As if the Cal logi wasn't nerfed enough as it is..
Defy Gravity Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:03:00 - [33] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more *. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) So logi can't use shotgun? Can't use mass driver? Can go to depot an get swarm launcher cuz stupid assault teammates never skilled one? Think about what your asking for! Remove AR is what you want , let's be honest, what you gonna do when logis start spamming core nades , an remotes an faylocks with 4 damage mods , need that too? Think ! I am thinking and I think this is the way to go. ShotGun is more of a Scout/Assault role MassDriver is more of an Assault role The thing about the swarm launcher at the the supply depot. You have to either stay away or provide ammo for anyone thats shooting at it. [] Flaylocks are useless. Nuff Said. GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
Rusty Shallows Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 462	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:04:00 - [34] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: snip -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. snip That really isn't a nerf. Unless the job Logi itself is a nerf. On my Alt all three equipment slots are filled on every fit. Not everything gets used each battle but I'm happy enough when they are. Alternatively the Devs could just boost the cpu/grid on Assault Suits. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
Cosgar ParagonX 7139	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:06:00 - [35] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) They use CaLogis because that suit was super OP in early uprising. The slot layout is still questionable at best (should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) but was re-balanced while all logis took a recharge delay nerf. The logisault issue has been fixed, but misinformed players butthurt over dying to a yellow suit carry a torch. They hate us for getting more WP, they hate us for being able to carry more equipment, they hate us for getting kills when they think yellow = easy kill. Stop looking for free kills in an FPS with these per-concieved notions that a logistics class should be tethered to a heavy or a squad's personal pack mule. There's no Geneva Convention in New Eden. Grow a pair and stop crying. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Roofer Madness A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 474	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:07:00 - [36] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more . Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) lol at "intended" role. Who decides that? You? Whatever man..... it's not a ***** medic. It's a logistics role. That can be a lot of things.... The Dust 514 AFK song Plasma Cannon FTW
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1036	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:12:00 - [37] - Quote ^ says you. Just cuz a idiot say s something is true, doesn't necessarily make it so.
DEA Scott Richardson Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:14:00 - [38] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: OZAROW wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more *. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) So logi can't use shotgun? Can't use mass driver? Can go to depot an get swarm launcher cuz stupid assault teammates never skilled one? Think about what your asking for! Remove AR is what you want , let's be honest, what you gonna do when logis start spamming core nades , an remotes an faylocks with 4 damage mods , need that too? Think ! I am thinking and I think this is the way to go. ShotGun is more of a Scout/Assault role MassDriver is more of an Assault role The thing about the swarm launcher at the the supply depot. You have to either stay away or provide ammo for anyone thats shooting at it. [] Flaylocks are useless. Nuff Said.
DEA Scott Richardson Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:15:00 - [39] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) 1+
Cosgar ParagonX 7141	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:17:00 - [40] - Quote Roofer Madness wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more . Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) lol at "intended" role. Who decides that? You? Whatever man..... it's not a ***** medic. It's a logistics role. That can be a lot of things.... Intended role is what gave heavies a paintball gun. Intended role is what made scouts into paper thin suits- no faster than medium frames. Intended role is what took away marauder vehicles in exchange for militia HAV with an extra slot and no PG to equip anything. Intended role is what makes assault with an AR king and assaults are too dense to realize it. What's the point of being able to skill into anything and everything to theory craft different fittings when you're only limited to an intended role? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

AOD oOPimpMacDaddyOo Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:18:00 - [41] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) Yea I see alot of proto cldari logis that do not play there role. its like giving 2000HP to one guy and 2000DMG to one guy and putting the two together
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1036	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:18:00 - [42] - Quote So logis get smgs, pistols, nerfed faylocks an nova knives? Ok perfect what you gonna say when I'm kickingass with profile dampeners running over 9 with remotes an knives? Lol losers I swear, if logic cost money you would be broke and stupid
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1109	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:23:00 - [43] - Quote logies don't need a nerf, the other suits need a buff and equipment needs to be more pg/cpu intensive. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Oswald Rehnquist 385	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:24:00 - [44] - Quote The Logis can make make a load out that can function in any lite role it wants, in this niche game no other suit has this versatility, that is why I think it gets heat, it is a suit that can specialize in anything it wants, whereas other suits are more restricted by design. I personally am not effective by it due to my preference for the scout suit which no suit really wants to mimic, the logi is no different than an assault for me in that if it sees you, you are dead, so I group medium frames as a single category because they function very similarly, the extra slots of the logi is not much different that the higher stats of the assault. Now back to why people rage on the logi is because The logi might not be thy best dps suit but it can scout and tank better than the assault suit. While the logi might not be the fastest suit, it it has more utility both in and out of combat than the scout suit. While the logi might not have thy highest tank, it can run and gun faster than the tank class. So you are looking at two things, 1) Buff the other suits up A) Assaults are pretty much set, they just need a general damage bonus and a racial weapon spec and no way could a logi ever compete with an assault again with the massive dps being able to clean logis in a second. B) Heavies just need actual weapons, light weapon damage resistance, and active hardeners. C) Scouts.... oh god where do I start, scouts need an entirely new mechanic that cant' be copied, like ewar or debuffer along with better stealth / disengagement abilities, then I think it would be able to break into high comp matches. 2) Make the logi suit one a niches instead of the versatile anything you want suit. I don't pretend to be an expert on how to best to work this since I am not a logi Below 28 dB
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1109	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:25:00 - [45] - Quote AOD oOPimpMacDaddyOo wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more . Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) Yea I see alot of proto cldari logis that do not play there role. its like giving 2000HP to one guy and 2000DMG to one guy and putting the two together this is a HUGE exaggeration... the most a cal logi can get is 1200 ehp... to do this they sacrifice all equipment and dmg mods. oh and a proto weapon.... insert witty or profound statement here _______**.
Cosgar ParagonX 7142	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:30:00 - [46] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: AOD oOPimpMacDaddyOo wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) Yea I see alot of proto cldari logis that do not play there role. its like giving 2000HP to one guy and 2000DMG to one guy and putting the two together this is a HUGE exaggeration... the most a cal logi can get is 1200 ehp... to do this they sacrifice all equipment and dmg mods. oh and a proto weapon.... And you'll get smoked by an assault with any real FPS skill. You might win the odd 1v1, but once you have to reload your one weapon, you're screwed because you'll just be a gimped assault without a sidearm. People like to neglect that assaults have sidearms, but ask any laser user how important one is. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1036	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:38:00 - [47] - Quote This topic is outta control, give assaults a reduction to damage or a blueprint damage slot that is equal to the suit used that can't be removed or traded in their high slot. So you gotta run proto to get the free complex mod, basic gets basic, adv gets enh an starters get nothin. An scouts only get cloaking ability, done an done
sssbassil WarRavens League of Infamy 10	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:49:00 - [48] - Quote OZAROW wrote: This topic is outta control, give assaults a reduction to damage or a blueprint damage slot that is equal to the suit used that can't be removed or traded in their high slot. So you gotta run proto to get the free complex mod, basic gets basic, adv gets enh an starters get nothin. An scouts only get cloaking ability, done an done that mite work bro i would go back to my assault suit for a free build in damage mod
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1038	Posted - 2013.11.04 05:39:00 - [49] - Quote sssbassil wrote: OZAROW wrote: This topic is outta control, give assaults a reduction to damage or a blueprint damage slot that is equal to the suit used that can't be removed or traded in their high slot. So you gotta run proto to get the free complex mod, basic gets basic, adv gets enh an starters get nothin. An scouts only get cloaking ability, done an done that mite work bro i would go back to my assault suit for a free build in damage mod Lol you already rock 35% damage lol
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 356	Posted - 2013.11.04 06:04:00 - [50] - Quote LOL, the Logi hate. OMNOMNOM! On topic, make all Logi suits required to fit all equipment slots. Simple, done. My main purpose is to support, not kill. This does not mean I should not be able to kill! Give Assaults their GD 2nd equipment slot back (at Proto), and a lot of this Logi hate will go away. If the assaults and forum complainers get their way, and nerf us yet again, I want 25% of their warpoints when they spawn on my uplinks, get repaired/revived by my reppers and needles, or resupply with my nanohives. If you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

Roofer Madness A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 479	Posted - 2013.11.04 06:53:00 - [51] - Quote I think the main reason the logi "nerf" situation bothers me the most is because when it comes down to it, people are upset because the leader board at the end of the match goes by WP and not kills. Every one bitches about logi "slayers" but in reality you're upset because someone is beating you at the game with less kills and more points. All of these required equipment slots/sidearm only/fitting requirement "solutions" do NOT fix your problem. As long as the game is WP based and not kill based you will never be happy. As a logi you can, and should, pull at LEAST 1000 WP per match. No matter how many reds you kill. The good logis get the WPs and the kills. I rock a plasma cannon and routinely place Top 3 on the board at the end of a match. Is it because of kills? Hell no. But sometimes it is. Why take away the versatilty of my role because your role sucks so much? Simple fix. Make assaults better assaults. Make scouts better scouts. Make heavies better heavies. But DO NOT MAKE THE LOGI A ******* GIMPED SUPPORT CHARACTER. No one wants to play second fiddle to your kill streak. The Dust 514 AFK song Plasma Cannon FTW
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 287	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:08:00 - [52] - Quote Do not nerf Logis. Make them the standard to which every other class is balanced around. Which is to say, buff everybody but Logis. Because frankly, assaults are lacklustre (especially armour tanking ones, due to stupid shield bonus that is usless to half the races), scouts are stuck in an "everything we can do, a medium frame can do better"-state, and heavies have one impotent weapon and a useless bonus and can get downed in a second or two by a MLT AR. Don't nerf Logis 'cause every other class sucks. If logis are nerfed, then guess what? Assaults will still have that stupid shield bonus and no bonus to damage/tanking capacity, scouts are still without a defined role, and heavies will still be impotent. Which is to say, the problem will not be solved.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 907	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:10:00 - [53] - Quote Logi needs no nerf, we need rid of the Assault suit! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles 338	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:15:00 - [54] - Quote No nerf, forcing suits into a role is anti MMO. One should be able to tank what they want and dps what they want and logi what they want...if though a heavy would make a bad logi let em try.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1039	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:20:00 - [55] - Quote Roofer Madness wrote: I think the main reason the logi "nerf" situation bothers me the most is because when it comes down to it, people are upset because the leader board at the end of the match goes by WP and not kills. Every one bitches about logi "slayers" but in reality you're upset because someone is beating you at the game with less kills and more points. All of these required equipment slots/sidearm only/fitting requirement "solutions" do NOT fix your problem. As long as the game is WP based and not kill based you will never be happy. As a logi you can, and should, pull at LEAST 1000 WP per match. No matter how many reds you kill. The good logis get the WPs and the kills. I rock a plasma cannon and routinely place Top 3 on the board at the end of a match. Is it because of kills? Hell no. But sometimes it is. Why take away the versatilty of my role because your role sucks so much? Simple fix. Make assaults better assaults. Make scouts better scouts. Make heavies better heavies. But DO NOT MAKE THE LOGI A ******* GIMPED SUPPORT CHARACTER. No one wants to play second fiddle to your kill streak. Or....... People could be smart! Get a lv 1 logi for like 600000 sp fill two with uplink an hives, get a militia scout with speed mods. 1.Spawn fast scout deploy links 2. Take depot 3. Use both cheap logi dump equipment 4. Use assault suit I'm a scout an this is my routine every match, over 1000 points per match. The name of the game is strategy an spend points intelligently . Dust 514 for dummies
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1215	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:49:00 - [56] - Quote I'd like none of those, get bent. If I had to choose I'd go for sidearm only. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 202	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:56:00 - [57] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: The +1 hp/s bonus doesn't really make much sense to me. I'd change it to 5% reduction to equipment CPU/PG usage any day. I'd also change the racial bonuses to better suit the role they're designed for. I also don't like the idea of giving racial bonuses for one piece of equipment. That really limits gameplay in a bad way. Only having a sidearm? Having equipment slots filled sounds good to me. Maybe not all of them though. Having to fit 4 pieces of equipment on a min logi would leave no room for anything else. I'd make it so you have to have 2 filled, except for the standard Amarr and Cal logis. They could just need to fill one as they only have 2 equipment slots. I'm not a great fan of changing who gets what WPs. Changing anything like this could leave a WP farming loophole open that CCP are bound to not notice. I'm not totally against reduced damage, but -50% would be FAR too much. I'd say 10% tops. Also exclude or reduce this for Amarr logis as they are combat logis. How does it not make sense? Who reps logi bro? When all his hives are gone an he's rep tooling you who reps him? God you guys are idiots! Rep modules? They work well enough for me... 'Insert witty signature here'
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 307	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:05:00 - [58] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level That would not be a nerf, that would be a godsend buff to all the suits. Director (Management) D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 307	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:07:00 - [59] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: No nerf, forcing suits into a role is anti MMO. One should be able to tank what they want and dps what they want and logi what they want...if though a heavy would make a bad logi let em try. Forcing suits into a role is anti mmo? Have you ever played an MMO? ANY MMO.... ? Just one.. please say you've at least played one. Heck, it doesn't matter which one you've played, they're all the same, and they all have SPECIFIC ROLES and fail at everything else. Director (Management) D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
Cosgar ParagonX 7165	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:12:00 - [60] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: lDocHollidayl wrote: No nerf, forcing suits into a role is anti MMO. One should be able to tank what they want and dps what they want and logi what they want...if though a heavy would make a bad logi let em try. Forcing suits into a role is anti mmo? Have you ever played an MMO? ANY MMO.... ? Just one.. please say you've at least played one. Heck, it doesn't matter which one you've played, they're all the same, and they all have SPECIFIC ROLES and fail at everything else. If that's the case, Logistics = Red Mage, the most versatile class in most MMOs, and regarded as the jack of all trades, master of none. ( Just don't ask me to get on my knees and cast refresh every 20 seconds) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 14	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:12:00 - [61] - Quote Either force them to fill equipment slots, or massively reduce pg/CPU/slots and give a hard role bonus of -x%to pg/CPU fitting costs of equipment. No more gallente logis running around with a duvolle, 3 complex dmg mods and ~900hp
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 202	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:16:00 - [62] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: lDocHollidayl wrote: No nerf, forcing suits into a role is anti MMO. One should be able to tank what they want and dps what they want and logi what they want...if though a heavy would make a bad logi let em try. Forcing suits into a role is anti mmo? Have you ever played an MMO? ANY MMO.... ? Just one.. please say you've at least played one. Heck, it doesn't matter which one you've played, they're all the same, and they all have SPECIFIC ROLES and fail at everything else. Dust does have an incredibly lenient role system when compared to the likes of WOW. Pick a race and class at the beginning and that's all the character can do until level 90. But dust allows you to do whatever, whenever and no limit to your max skill level. And I prefer dusts way. 'Insert witty signature here'
Cosgar ParagonX 7165	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:21:00 - [63] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Either force them to fill equipment slots, or massively reduce pg/CPU/slots and give a hard role bonus of -x%to pg/CPU fitting costs of equipment. No more gallente logis running around with a duvolle, 3 complex dmg mods and ~900hp Locus grenades can pretty much **** a GaLogi's day up. After 1.7 when we get the combat and rail rifle, it'll be that much easier. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Jebus McKing Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.11.04 10:09:00 - [64] - Quote The one thing we really need to change is peoples understanding of what a Logi is. A Logi is not a weak medic class that should get roflstomped by any Assault player just because "lol Assault should be > rest". A Logi is a medium frame suit which sacrifices base HP, speed, and its sidearm slot (except Amarr) in order to be able to use more equipment. And that's it. If you are unable to utilise the advantages the Assault suit brings then that is entirely your problem. I do use my Logi to support my team. But when I'm not supporting I'm helping my team by dropping enemies. I'm effective at it, because I learned how to use my suit effectively. And when I'm using a Basic or Assault suit I make them to be way more effective at killing than my Logi ever could, because I learned to utilise its strengths and the weaknesses of other classes. Logis are good. Assaults are good. But true greatness comes from the player, not the suit. @JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet. ò_Ô
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 820	Posted - 2013.11.04 10:49:00 - [65] - Quote CCP should just get it over with and combine assault with logistics. Remove 1 equipment slot and gain 1 sidearm, tweek CPU/PG so you cant fit proto everything like current logistics can, increase stamina/walk speed/run speed to be similar to assault, reduce dropsuit high/low to be similar to their assault counterpart so that they cant out tank a heavy. Heavies need an hp increase to make them more tanky. Scout needs a bit more CPU/PG, a speed/stamina increase, and their stealth elements need to be reworked. There, now that every assault is now a logi, you'll get more backup so I know a heavy cant complain about that and no one can complain about anyone taking another's role in the battlefield.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1230	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:00:00 - [66] - Quote Limit the stacking of modules. More modules should mean more versatility, not more health, more damage potential, or whatever. i.e. you can only fit one of each type of module, or modules have a larger stacking penalty than they do now. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the option to stack modules, but if you do there should be a much larger downside if you use more than 1-2 (for instance, armor plates slowing you down a lot more, or shields having a longer delay/recharge) List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos! (Insert future link here)
Cosgar ParagonX 7185	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:03:00 - [67] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Limit the stacking of modules. More modules should mean more versatility, not more health, more damage potential, or whatever. i.e. you can only fit one of each type of module, or modules have a larger stacking penalty than they do now. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the option to stack modules, but if you do there should be a much larger downside if you use more than 1-2 (for instance, armor plates slowing you down a lot more, or shields having a longer delay/recharge) Implement that for all classes too. Limiting one suit for previous misuse by other players only punishes the ones that don't. Not that anyone is really misusing suits now since Dust was supposed to be about having a sandbox experience and playing the way you want, heavy snipers, shotgun assaults and all that. When did everything go wrong? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 357	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:06:00 - [68] - Quote no nerf to logi. instead buff assaults ttk and light weapon prof (all weapons) to further enunciate their role as a slayer / frontline class.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 852	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:33:00 - [69] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. -- snip even more BS -- Okay I will be honest. This is my honest reply to your suggestion, Logi Bro: I am sick to death of this game, SP grinding, CCP and these forums. Every time some CoD dork and their twins from BF* get beat on the Kill Board in WP by a Logi we get this entire cycle of crap repeated. OMG! Nerf the Logi! In the future try this: If you say, we are going to Nerf any Suit, Weapon, Module, Vehicle or Skill give me my damned money back. At the very least, give me the option of resetting my SP ... in game. Not forcing me to abandon the game for weeks because CCP couldn't be bothered to reset mine while others got theirs. The Beta isn't over. It is Dead. Just like Chromosome. What we have now is an empty shell of the great potential that was DUST514 BETA, twisted by its connection to EVE and that horrid Skill ranking (which is based on passive SP exclusively), stupid modules (Hey, it saved making new icons!) and a chainsaw to the game once a month. I would love to know where this is headed because I would bet real world cash that CCP has no stinking clue. Just keep hacking in the grass, snow and breaking the game. Logi Bro, stuff it. I never want to hear your name again. I honestly mean it, Logi Bro.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:22:00 - [70] - Quote Super original idea here: Buff assault suits D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó

Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 309	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:40:00 - [71] - Quote I am not as opposed to the sidearm only thing as I was before (SCRP is a beast in the right hands), but I am still opposed. Make it 2 sidearm slots instead of one light, leave Amarr logi as it is and maybe I even agree. Problem is, with current TTK sidearm only is straight up suicide.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 312	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:46:00 - [72] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. All of these ideas are stupid and penalise the Logi player. It just needs to be so that it doesn't replace an assault as an assault That means one less high (or low) slot than the equivalent Assault suit for that race so it can't overstack shield/armour/dmg mods. Problem solved. Everything else can remain as is, heck they can even increase its speed if they want.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1014	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:48:00 - [73] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! /signed Stand strong my brothers and sisters! Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Kosakai ZionTCD Public Disorder. 4	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:59:00 - [74] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Either force them to fill equipment slots, or massively reduce pg/CPU/slots and give a hard role bonus of -x%to pg/CPU fitting costs of equipment. No more gallente logis running around with a duvolle, 3 complex dmg mods and ~900hp how you made 900hp? ;)
George Moros Area 514 149	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:26:00 - [75] - Quote The problem with logis is that they have too many high/low slots and extra PG/CPU compared to assaults. This makes logi dropsuits open for far too many applications outside their intended role (logistics). It's actually pretty simple to solve all this without damage/weapon nerfs, required filled equipment slots and whatnot - make the base HP, slot layouts and PG/CPU of logi dropsuits similar to assault / standard dropsuits (no extra slots and extra PG/CPU, but with similar base HP of assaults), and give them a fixed role bonus of, say, 50% PG/CPU cost reduction to all equipment. This way, you don't force a logi player to forfeit anything it currently has, but make him think twice if he wants to play other roles with logi dropsuit.
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 309	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:34:00 - [76] - Quote George Moros wrote: The problem with logis is that they have too many high/low slots and extra PG/CPU compared to assaults. This makes logi dropsuits open for far too many applications outside their intended role (logistics). It's actually pretty simple to solve all this without damage/weapon nerfs, required filled equipment slots and whatnot - make the base HP, slot layouts and PG/CPU of logi dropsuits similar to assault / standard dropsuits (no extra slots and extra PG/CPU, but with similar base HP of assaults), and give them a fixed role bonus of, say, 50% PG/CPU cost reduction to all equipment. This way, you don't force a logi player to forfeit anything it currently has, but make him think twice if he wants to play other roles with logi dropsuit. Or, you know, you just buff assault so its more viable in its role than logi. Nerfing anything will effectively bring down average TTK, and thats the last thing anyone ever needs.
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:42:00 - [77] - Quote Instead of nerfing the logi, why not buff the assaults and heavies? That way EVERYONE win!
George Moros Area 514 149	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:44:00 - [78] - Quote Beeeees wrote: Or, you know, you just buff assault so its more viable in its role than logi. Nerfing anything will effectively bring down average TTK, and thats the last thing anyone ever needs. Too short average TTK is a global problem, not just between assaults and logis. If you want to adjust TTK, simply add more base HP to everything. I don't think that logis should have less survivability. Just less "exploitability".
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 311	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:53:00 - [79] - Quote I've promoted the fill all equip slots option before. Sure, you could just fill all the slots with compact hives, but that's fine, why force someone to equip a proto rep tool and needle or something? That would be too prohibitive. Equipping even a couple compact hives would force a compromise somewhere else and make the assault suit more attractive to someone not interested in filling the class' intended role, which is not a dirty word per se, just something that should be defined broadly. I see the intended role as providing some strategic/material support for the team other than firepower alone. What I find elegant about the solution is that it is simple to understand and program, and would have a limited impact on anyone who isn't using the suit as 100% killer bee. (Even that would still be possible, but not as good as assault) That said, 2 thoughts: - The class doesn't need a nerf, the assault maybe needs a buff and that is the preferred solution IMO. The gallente assault bonus is pretty stupid, no news there. - The other ideas are terribad. I can see how a reduction to equipment CPU/PG use plus a reduction in the base stats might sound attractive but I see it as a more complicated way of accomplishing virtually the same thing as requiring the equip slots to be filled. Think about it:Do you trust CCP to do the maths? These are the people that completely broke the Amarr logi in the first place and started this whole river of tears with the blatantly obvious OPness of the Caldari. Templar'd for her pleasure Amarr victor!
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2004	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:14:00 - [80] - Quote Logi suits don't need a nerf, other suits need a buff. All the suits currently dedicated to combat are underpowered. Aim-assist ruined the Minja. The assault specialisation bonus is shite. Lolmando. And the heavies don't have enough weapons. I'm supposed to put something here?

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 208	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:17:00 - [81] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The one thing we really need to change is peoples understanding of what a Logi is. A Logi is not a weak medic class that should get roflstomped by any Assault player just because "lol Assault should be > rest". A Logi is a medium frame suit which sacrifices base HP, speed, and its sidearm slot (except Amarr) in order to be able to use more equipment. And that's it. If you are unable to utilise the advantages the Assault suit brings then that is entirely your problem. I do use my Logi to support my team. But when I'm not supporting I'm helping my team by dropping enemies. I'm effective at it, because I learned how to use my suit effectively. And when I'm using a Basic or Assault suit I make them to be way more effective at killing than my Logi ever could, because I learned to utilise its strengths and the weaknesses of other classes. Logis are good. Assaults are good. But true greatness comes from the player, not the suit. I couldn't agree more.
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 309	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:56:00 - [82] - Quote George Moros wrote: Beeeees wrote: Or, you know, you just buff assault so its more viable in its role than logi. Nerfing anything will effectively bring down average TTK, and thats the last thing anyone ever needs. Too short average TTK is a global problem, not just between assaults and logis. If you want to adjust TTK, simply add more base HP to everything. I don't think that logis should have less survivability. Just less "exploitability". Too short TTK is an Assault Rifle problem. Exclusively.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 525	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:56:00 - [83] - Quote Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 177	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:11:00 - [84] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1156	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:13:00 - [85] - Quote I say no nerf but assaults need to either have the same highs and lows as logis or 2 equipment slots
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 525	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:13:00 - [86] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no. Explain
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 177	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:15:00 - [87] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no. Explain Because the gallente and minmatar have four equipment slots at proto.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 525	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:20:00 - [88] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no. Explain Because the gallente and minmatar have four equipment slots at proto. Proto also has a ton of CPU and PG so it wouldn't be hard to at least fit basic equipment
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1016	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:23:00 - [89] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no. Explain Because the gallente and minmatar have four equipment slots at proto. I have Logi mk.0 and I ALWAYS fill all of my equipment slots, only "slayer" logis would have a problem with this. IMHO, though, **** those scrubs. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 566	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:25:00 - [90] - Quote Quote: If the logistics suit were to get a nerf, what would you prefer it be? Answer: An Assault Dropsuit buff.

Deacon Obvious S.e.V.e.N. 12	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:33:00 - [91] - Quote RydogV wrote: Quote: If the logistics suit were to get a nerf, what would you prefer it be? Answer: An Assault Dropsuit buff. For real, this whole issue could be solved by changes to the suit bonuses like: Assault : +30% Damage Modifier Module Efficacy Logistics: -40% Damage Modifier Module Efficacy I run Gallente Logi exclusively, and as a support oriented player, I've never seriously considered Damage Modifiers for my high slots. Killing is a distinct secondary, but if you practice you can be very effective with no Damage Mods and a Toxin BP rifle. I'm hoping to see a more detailed bonus system coming to suits soon. There's a lot of shaping of suits and roles that can be done by changing fitting costs or module efficacy on a per suit basis.
Thumb Green Novashift 493	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:35:00 - [92] - Quote If we keep nerfing everything there will be even less of a reason to play this game. BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! etc.... Never mind the president, let's overgrow the government.
ShinyJay RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 134	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:36:00 - [93] - Quote what i have to say is, how would you buff other suits without breaking them? no one wants nerfs, but buffing can be just as bad if too buffed minnie scout sniper, always on the move, always ready for action,
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 525	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:36:00 - [94] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: If we keep nerfing everything there will be even less of a reason to play this game. BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! BUFFS NOT NERFS! etc.... Buff commando
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1337	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:40:00 - [95] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I agree that the Logi dowsnt need a nerf, but if you don't talk then people will just say screw it and do what they want.
George Moros Area 514 150	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:50:00 - [96] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I've promoted the fill all equip slots option before. Sure, you could just fill all the slots with compact hives, but that's fine, why force someone to equip a proto rep tool and needle or something? That would be too prohibitive. Equipping even a couple compact hives would force a compromise somewhere else and make the assault suit more attractive to someone not interested in filling the class' intended role, which is not a dirty word per se, just something that should be defined broadly. I see the intended role as providing some strategic/material support for the team other than firepower alone. What I find elegant about the solution is that it is simple to understand and program, and would have a limited impact on anyone who isn't using the suit as 100% killer bee. (Even that would still be possible, but not as good as assault) That said, 2 thoughts: - The class doesn't need a nerf, the assault maybe needs a buff and that is the preferred solution IMO. The gallente assault bonus is pretty stupid, no news there. It doesn't really matter whether you nerf logis or buff assaults. Bringing them in balance is what matters. John Demonsbane wrote: - The other ideas are terribad. I can see how a reduction to equipment CPU/PG use plus a reduction in the base stats might sound attractive but I see it as a more complicated way of accomplishing virtually the same thing as requiring the equip slots to be filled. It is more complicated, but that's the dev's problem. The approach I'm proposing is exactly how it's done in EVE, and it works just fine. I really don't understand why CCP didn't use that approach and took the unbeaten path. Equipping 3 compact hives costs less PG/CPU than 1 advanced (K-2), and it's not like an assault minded player using a logi suit wouldn't know how to put them to good use. Your proposal would be just a slight hinderance for logi dropsuit "abusement", not a solution.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 177	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:01:00 - [97] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That would be a massive nerf on the proto gallente and minmatar, when it's mostly the caldari that people complain about. So no. Explain Because the gallente and minmatar have four equipment slots at proto. I have Logi mk.0 and I ALWAYS fill all of my equipment slots, only "slayer" logis would have a problem with this. IMHO, though, **** those scrubs. It's impossible to fill the fourth equipment slot on the mk.0 if you're using advanced weapon and grenades, enhanced armour plates, complex shield extenders, and three of proto injector, repair tool, nanohive, and uplink. So it would not just be a nerf to slayer logis but also to logis who like to use proto equipment rather than advanced. Maybe it would be fair to make logis fill three slots (so mk.0 and gk.0 can leave one free if they like).
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:02:00 - [98] - Quote George Moros wrote: I really don't understand why CCP didn't use that approach and took the unbeaten path. If you are talking about the reduction of equipment fitting costs, one of the Devs a while ago said the way their system works was preventing them from implementing an equipment wide fitting bonus but that they were in the process of redoing the system so such a bonus would be possible. Also, If that is the route CCP wants to take the Logi, I don't think it should be a straight reduction on all equipment fitting costs as CCP has plans for adding equipment that I do not believe fall into a logi's area of specialty. For example, the cloak is supposed to be an equipment but that is an equipment more suited to scouts than Logis but under a flat all equipment bonus, logis would be in the best position to use them. This would be solved by making the bonus apply only to a new a subcategory of equipment called Support Equipment that included nanos, injectors, uplinks, repair tools, and perhaps scanners. Things like cloak and future E-war (jammers and such) equipment would not fall into this category.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 569	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:28:00 - [99] - Quote ShinyJay wrote: what i have to say is, how would you buff other suits without breaking them? no one wants nerfs, but buffing can be just as bad if too buffed Putting the Assault back into Assault Dropsuits As most of you know, there is always this ongoing debate about how Assault dropsuits are not as effective at frontline combat when compared to Logistics dropsuits fitted for a slayer role. While I think the gap is not as significant as it is made out to be on the Dust forums, I do recognize there is room for some improvements. Now many argue that the best way to address the perceived imbalance is to some how nerf the Logistics dropsuit. Things like reducing module slots, reducing CPU/PG, making equipment slots mandatory and limiting Logis to only sidearm weapons have all been suggested. However, I believe the best solution is to make Assault dropsuits better, by enhancing their offensive capability. This can be done by adjusting some simple game mechanics and rethinking role and race bonuses for both the Assault and Logistics classes. Step one would be to dial back the 10% buff given to Light Weapons a few updates ago. Step two would be to reduce the damage increase of Weapons Damage Modules. Militia/Basic to +2%, Advanced to +3% and Prototype to +5%. The stacking penalty for these modules would also be double their current rate. Step three would be to change the current Assault bonus (+5% Shield Recharge Rate at each level) to something more fitting the slayer role. This would be a +2% Damage Increase to Light Weapons at each level. This way the Assault class become the more appealing choice for frontline combat by giving it the chance to regain that 10% damage buff at the highest level. Some adjustments to racial bonuses would also include: Ammar: 5% Reduction to laser weapon heat build-up (stays the same) Caldari: 3% Increase to max ammo (change from +2% efficacy to shield extenders) Gallente: 5% Reduction to weapon CPU/PG (change from -5% to hybrid weapon CPU/PG) Minmatar: 5% Increase to Light and Sidearm weapon clip size (change from +5% to sidearm clip size) Step four would be to change some current Logistics racial bonuses. Logistics would keep the role bonus of +1 HP of Dropsuit Armor Repair, since there is generally no one to heal the healer and survivability is key in a support role. Changes to racial bonuses include: Amarr: 5% Reduction to active scanner CPU/PG (change from +5% efficacy to armor repair modules) Caldari: 5% Reduction to nano equipment CPU/PG (change from +5% efficacy to shield regulators) Gallente: 5% Reduction to repair tool CPU/PG (change from -5% to equipment CPU/PG) Minmatar: 5% Increase to hacking speed (stays the same) Aside from the increase in damage output for Assault, the racial bonuses all now reflect important improvements in offensive weapon capability. Amarr remains the same with bonuses to Lasers and Scrambler Rifles; Caldari gets increased ammo, crucial for weapons like Mass Drivers and Swarm Launchers; Gallente gets significant CPU/PG savings from both weapons slots; and Minmatar gets larger magazines to offset its low HP. The changes to Logistics don't take away from its durability with the inherent armor repair but do put more emphasis on support bonuses. The higher DPS potential of the Assault class, combined with the reduced effectiveness of Damage Modules, would make the Logistics suit a less capable platform for frontline combat. Comments welcome
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1017	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:37:00 - [100] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: It's impossible to fill the fourth equipment slot on the mk.0 if you're using advanced weapon and grenades, enhanced armour plates, complex shield extenders, and three of proto injector, repair tool, nanohive, and uplink. So it would not just be a nerf to slayer logis but also to logis who like to use proto equipment rather than advanced. Maybe it would be fair to make logis fill three slots (so mk.0 and gk.0 can leave one free if they like). Wrong again, I use 4 pieces of PRO equipment, PRO weapon, ADV grenades and a mixture of PRO/ADV utility high and lows. Situational awareness > Dual overtanking Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....

Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:41:00 - [101] - Quote RydogV wrote: Ammar: 5% Reduction to laser weapon heat build-up (stays the same) Caldari: 3% Increase to max ammo (change from +2% efficacy to shield extenders) Gallente: 5% Reduction to weapon CPU/PG (change from -5% to hybrid weapon CPU/PG) Minmatar: 5% Increase to Light and Sidearm weapon clip size (change from +5% to sidearm clip size) Caldari one doesn't seem fitting, but I'm not sure what would be better. As for the Gallente, what about giving the Gallente the Commando's reload bonus? The Gallente are about laying on the DPS and a reload bonus would fit with that line of thought without increasing their DPS.
Meeko Fent Expert Intervention Caldari State 1358	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:45:00 - [102] - Quote Normalize Slot counts and Base stats with the assaults. I believe that the only difference between a logi and a Assault of equal tank should be the sidearm and the equipment slots. Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
ShinyJay RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 135	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:45:00 - [103] - Quote RydogV wrote: ShinyJay wrote: what i have to say is, how would you buff other suits without breaking them? no one wants nerfs, but buffing can be just as bad if too buffed Putting the Assault back into Assault Dropsuits As most of you know, there is always this ongoing debate about how Assault dropsuits are not as effective at frontline combat when compared to Logistics dropsuits fitted for a slayer role. While I think the gap is not as significant as it is made out to be on the Dust forums, I do recognize there is room for some improvements. Now many argue that the best way to address the perceived imbalance is to some how nerf the Logistics dropsuit. Things like reducing module slots, reducing CPU/PG, making equipment slots mandatory and limiting Logis to only sidearm weapons have all been suggested. However, I believe the best solution is to make Assault dropsuits better, by enhancing their offensive capability. This can be done by adjusting some simple game mechanics and rethinking role and race bonuses for both the Assault and Logistics classes. Step one would be to dial back the 10% buff given to Light Weapons a few updates ago. Step two would be to reduce the damage increase of Weapons Damage Modules. Militia/Basic to +2%, Advanced to +3% and Prototype to +5%. The stacking penalty for these modules would also be double their current rate. Step three would be to change the current Assault bonus (+5% Shield Recharge Rate at each level) to something more fitting the slayer role. This would be a +2% Damage Increase to Light Weapons at each level. This way the Assault class become the more appealing choice for frontline combat by giving it the chance to regain that 10% damage buff at the highest level. Some adjustments to racial bonuses would also include: Amarr: 5% Reduction to laser weapon heat build-up (stays the same) Caldari: 3% Increase to max ammo (change from +2% efficacy to shield extenders) Gallente: 5% Reduction to weapon CPU/PG (change from -5% to hybrid weapon CPU/PG) Minmatar: 5% Increase to Light and Sidearm weapon clip size (change from +5% to sidearm clip size) Step four would be to change some current Logistics racial bonuses. Logistics would keep the role bonus of +1 HP of Dropsuit Armor Repair, since there is generally no one to heal the healer and survivability is key in a support role. Changes to racial bonuses include: Amarr: 5% Reduction to active scanner CPU/PG (change from +5% efficacy to armor repair modules) Caldari: 5% Reduction to nano equipment CPU/PG (change from +5% efficacy to shield regulators) Gallente: 5% Reduction to repair tool CPU/PG (change from -5% to equipment CPU/PG) Minmatar: 5% Increase to hacking speed (stays the same) Aside from the increase in damage output for Assault, the racial bonuses all now reflect important improvements in offensive weapon capability. Amarr remains the same with bonuses to Lasers and Scrambler Rifles; Caldari gets increased ammo, crucial for weapons like Mass Drivers and Swarm Launchers; Gallente gets significant CPU/PG savings from both weapons slots; and Minmatar gets larger magazines to offset its low HP. The changes to Logistics don't take away from its durability with the inherent armor repair but do put more emphasis on support bonuses. The higher DPS potential of the Assault class, combined with the reduced effectiveness of Damage Modules, would make the Logistics suit a less capable platform for frontline combat. Comments welcome i think that could work out well if properly implemented. it wouldn't change my style because i don't use it, but it will sort out who uses what for what role. now just want to see a great fix for my scout suit minnie scout sniper, always on the move, always ready for action,
General Erick Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 170	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:07:00 - [104] - Quote Reduced speed and stamina Fatbros for life! Stand against the oppression that is AR, and fight! Just my two ISKlets.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 178	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:11:00 - [105] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: It's impossible to fill the fourth equipment slot on the mk.0 if you're using advanced weapon and grenades, enhanced armour plates, complex shield extenders, and three of proto injector, repair tool, nanohive, and uplink. So it would not just be a nerf to slayer logis but also to logis who like to use proto equipment rather than advanced. Maybe it would be fair to make logis fill three slots (so mk.0 and gk.0 can leave one free if they like). Wrong again, I use 4 pieces of PRO equipment, PRO weapon, ADV grenades and a mixture of PRO/ADV utility high and lows. Situational awareness > Dual overtanking What makes you think I was trying to guess your loadout? Anyway, it is obviously possible to fit pretty much any equipment if you don't tank heavily. I'm just saying that the mk.0 should be viable versus capable opposition (=core locus spam). Situational awareness+dual tanking>situational awareness+prayers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 398	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:15:00 - [106] - Quote What is people's obsession with trying to force everyone into their idea of what a logi suit should be. I'm a logibro, I'm carrying full equipment slots, but if someone wants to go about things the ass backwards way and turn a logi into an assault suit, fine, it doesn't affect me. If a heavy wants to strap on a sniper rifle or scouts a MD, whatever, that is the point of the suit design to leave room for flexibility. BTW the limiting logis to sidearms only is the dumbest idea if only because CCP will either have to do respecs or hemmorrage logi players
TEXA5 HiTM4N Rogue Spades EoN. 260	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:19:00 - [107] - Quote ive been a mimi logi since i started playing this game and personally believe they are fine where there at.. I believe all logis base stats should be tweaked a little bit to give them a more unique flavor. What most people don't suggest is the buffing of the assault suits. if a cal logi can have more hp than a cal assault of course people are going to go with the logi. My fear all this crying will get the logis a nerf that will make them stand almost no chance in a gun fight.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 178	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:21:00 - [108] - Quote I honestly think assault versus logi is well balanced as it is. If you were only interested in slaying you wouldn't give up the sidearm, 0.3 movement, shield recovery, etc for the sake of extra equipment slots (a pure slayer wouldn't use them) or PG/CPU (assault PG/CPU is plenty if you're not using equipment).
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1158	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:23:00 - [109] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: What is people's obsession with trying to force everyone into their idea of what a logi suit should be. I'm a logibro, I'm carrying full equipment slots, but if someone wants to go about things the ass backwards way and turn a logi into an assault suit, fine, it doesn't affect me. If a heavy wants to strap on a sniper rifle or scouts a MD, whatever, that is the point of the suit design to leave room for flexibility. BTW the limiting logis to sidearms only is the dumbest idea if only because CCP will either have to do respecs or hemmorrage logi players Assaults don't have flexibility. ..your argument is invalid.....assaults have to be slayers they only get 1 equipment where as logis can be logis or slayers with 3 equipment slots and more hp...give assaults more hp or give them their second equipment back
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1616	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:26:00 - [110] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. 2,3,5 CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior

Oswald Rehnquist 410	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:30:00 - [111] - Quote George Moros wrote: The problem with logis is that they have too many high/low slots and extra PG/CPU compared to assaults. This makes logi dropsuits open for far too many applications outside their intended role (logistics). It's actually pretty simple to solve all this without damage/weapon nerfs, required filled equipment slots and whatnot - make the base HP, slot layouts and PG/CPU of logi dropsuits similar to assault / standard dropsuits (no extra slots and extra PG/CPU, but with similar base HP of assaults), and give them a fixed role bonus of, say, 50% PG/CPU cost reduction to all equipment. This way, you don't force a logi player to forfeit anything it currently has, but make him think twice if he wants to play other roles with logi dropsuit. I like this idea because it tweaks the least amount of mechanics and I thought the logi racial should the gal logi bonus of equipment reduction. Below 28 dB
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1616	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:32:00 - [112] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: George Moros wrote: The problem with logis is that they have too many high/low slots and extra PG/CPU compared to assaults. This makes logi dropsuits open for far too many applications outside their intended role (logistics). It's actually pretty simple to solve all this without damage/weapon nerfs, required filled equipment slots and whatnot - make the base HP, slot layouts and PG/CPU of logi dropsuits similar to assault / standard dropsuits (no extra slots and extra PG/CPU, but with similar base HP of assaults), and give them a fixed role bonus of, say, 50% PG/CPU cost reduction to all equipment. This way, you don't force a logi player to forfeit anything it currently has, but make him think twice if he wants to play other roles with logi dropsuit. I like this idea because it tweaks the least amount of mechanics and I thought the logi racial should the gal logi bonus of equipment reduction. Thirded... CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1018	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:36:00 - [113] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: It's impossible to fill the fourth equipment slot on the mk.0 if you're using advanced weapon and grenades, enhanced armour plates, complex shield extenders, and three of proto injector, repair tool, nanohive, and uplink. So it would not just be a nerf to slayer logis but also to logis who like to use proto equipment rather than advanced. Maybe it would be fair to make logis fill three slots (so mk.0 and gk.0 can leave one free if they like). Wrong again, I use 4 pieces of PRO equipment, PRO weapon, ADV grenades and a mixture of PRO/ADV utility high and lows. Situational awareness > Dual overtanking What makes you think I was trying to guess your loadout? Anyway, it is obviously possible to fit pretty much any equipment if you don't tank heavily. I'm just saying that the mk.0 should be viable versus capable opposition (=core locus spam). Situational awareness+dual tanking>situational awareness+prayers. Ya know, why don't we petition CCP to remove all non-tank infantry mods, I mean, I must obviously be the only person NOT overtanking my dropsuits. While we're at it, why not just remove everything but Medium Frames, ARs and tank mods so we can all play the game the way "it is meant to be played" Seriously though, situational awareness AND overtanking are just redundant. If you're staying aware of things, you'll avoid/kill the reddots before your dualtank is necessary. If they're getting the drop on you, then your dualtank likely won't make a difference. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Cosgar ParagonX 7238	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:06:00 - [114] - Quote The witch hunt continues... you people make me sick. Worst of all are the logibros trying to negotiate. They won't stop at one nerf, they never do. They won't be satisfied until we're as useless and paper thin as scouts. Assaults need some attention? Nerf logis! Such a great idea! By that logic, scouts should be complaining that the larger frames need a nerf. This isn't about killer bees anymore- the CaLogis has been neutered. This is butthurt assaults that want their suit to do it all and nothing else. Don't fool yourselves, they won't rest until we're as useless as Chromosome again, mark my words. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 480	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:11:00 - [115] - Quote It will change nothing. I fill my slots up already, use proto Hives/Uplinks/Injectors/etc. If Assaults cant get a better KDR then me when I'm using an Assault MD with no side-arm, how is this my fault?
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2008	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:13:00 - [116] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Only change id make is to make logistics suits require all equipment slots to be filled That's a terrible idea. Besides which, the number one equipment item for my logissaults is the compact nanohive. The only logi fittings I don't use all the Eq slots on are ninja hackers. I'm supposed to put something here?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 55	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:38:00 - [117] - Quote Fix the problems with the Assault, Light Frame and Heavy Frames. Logistics role is fine as is, it's simply that the others are not working as intended (IMO)
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles 1800	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:41:00 - [118] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Only Sidearm, I already use an SMG and flux grenades. AKA my pattented "Flux and spray" method. If you are a real Logi, You won't find yourself in open combat anyways. I refute that mentality. When I used to roll heavy I would have logis jump infront of me and gun down the enemy, acting as a clone shield, and start repping me as we waddled back to the corner. "The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire." Book of Exiles 1:3
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1158	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:00:00 - [119] - Quote Cosgar wrote: The witch hunt continues... you people make me sick. Worst of all are the logibros trying to negotiate. They won't stop at one nerf, they never do. They won't be satisfied until we're as useless and paper thin as scouts. Assaults need some attention? Nerf logis! Such a great idea! By that logic, scouts should be complaining that the larger frames need a nerf. This isn't about killer bees anymore- the CaLogis has been neutered. This is butthurt assaults that want their suit to do it all and nothing else. Don't fool yourselves, they won't rest until we're as useless as Chromosome again, mark my words. Any assault player that's any good agrees with me we should have the same highs/lows as logis or if that's to much for you logis then give us our fkn 2nd equipment back no one is asking for a nerf were asking for ccp to make things right...you sacrifice speed and shield recharge? Man that must be terrible considering you get more tank and equipment than assaults and don't say we have sidearms cuz to get a std smg I have to sacrifice an armor plate which = even less tank
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 14	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:24:00 - [120] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The one thing we really need to change is peoples understanding of what a Logi is. A Logi is not a weak medic class that should get roflstomped by any Assault player just because "lol Assault should be > rest". A Logi is a medium frame suit which sacrifices base HP, speed, and its sidearm slot (except Amarr) in order to be able to use more equipment. And that's it. If you are unable to utilise the advantages the Assault suit brings then that is entirely your problem. I do use my Logi to support my team. But when I'm not supporting I'm helping my team by dropping enemies. I'm effective at it, because I learned how to use my suit effectively. And when I'm using a Basic or Assault suit I make them to be way more effective at killing than my Logi ever could, because I learned to utilise its strengths and the weaknesses of other classes. Logis are good. Assaults are good. But true greatness comes from the player, not the suit. The big fundamental problem though is that logis have more slots and more pg/cpu than any other class in the game which allows them to outperform said classes at their intended roles, while still bringing more to the table than those other classes would.

CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 449	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:31:00 - [121] - Quote i see a fully fitted logi suit at proto level can easily get more hp than a fully fitted assault suit of the same tier. why dont we change that around?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1833	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:35:00 - [122] - Quote **** me, buff the other suits
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 597	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:43:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. I am not specifying ANYTHING before anyone flies off the handle on me, but I am interested to see what other people think the best choice of nerf would be. I've already heard the following: -Only a sidearm weapon. -Reduced WPs for kills and greater WPs for support -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level I'm not saying you have to choose from my list, I'm just saying that I've already heard these ideas, and if you suggest them, please provide a reasonable argument. Fixed Revive Repair Resupply & Team Spawn (It's what I do)
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1054	Posted - 2013.11.04 21:38:00 - [124] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: What is people's obsession with trying to force everyone into their idea of what a logi suit should be. I'm a logibro, I'm carrying full equipment slots, but if someone wants to go about things the ass backwards way and turn a logi into an assault suit, fine, it doesn't affect me. If a heavy wants to strap on a sniper rifle or scouts a MD, whatever, that is the point of the suit design to leave room for flexibility. BTW the limiting logis to sidearms only is the dumbest idea if only because CCP will either have to do respecs or hemmorrage logi players Assaults don't have flexibility. ..your argument is invalid.....assaults have to be slayers they only get 1 equipment where as logis can be logis or slayers with 3 equipment slots and more hp...give assaults more hp or give them their second equipment back You can have your 2nd equip the same time scouts get theirs back. What people are too stupid to realize is theirs this thing on the map called a supply depot. This is a place where you can change your load outs, you can drop all your support gear an go back to this place an pick a stronger fit. The other thing dust dummies forget is everyone has different skills, maxed skills allow stronger fits, also logi is more domination an skirmish orientated, if your playing ambush expect a logi to bustyoAss! Because ambush is straight killing, guys like nyain San only ever play ambush, hence the logi stomp. If your not dying an Carry a hive an a uplink each you can still tank hard, it's a ambush fit. Everyone in this game that is complaining about this is a grass is greener envious person because if you were a team player you woulda picked logistics in the first place! An because squads of these are whooping ace it's got you but hurt. Really what is logistics anyway? It's a equipment unit, how do you define it's role? Needs to stay stuck to your ass with a tool? Can't beat you with wp? Rep hives a scanner an links aren't enough for you? I think losing on the score board is your problem. ASSAULTS ARE SO SELF CENTERED THEY DON'T THINK EVEN SCOUTS SHOULD KILL! Get over yourselves, want extra damage added to your suit, 3 ten % damage mods an 15% damage for weapon proficiency, plus core nades an nano hives, PATHETIC !
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1054	Posted - 2013.11.04 21:43:00 - [125] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i see a fully fitted logi suit at proto level can easily get more hp than a fully fitted assault suit of the same tier. why dont we change that around? Cuz if your too stupid to do math before you pick a suit we shouldn't suffer for others lack of a inteligent mind. Also many logis have other class suits, BE A MAN AN SAVE SP!
George Moros Area 514 153	Posted - 2013.11.04 21:53:00 - [126] - Quote Cosgar wrote: The witch hunt continues... you people make me sick. Worst of all are the logibros trying to negotiate. They won't stop at one nerf, they never do. They won't be satisfied until we're as useless and paper thin as scouts. Assaults need some attention? Nerf logis! Such a great idea! By that logic, scouts should be complaining that the larger frames need a nerf. This isn't about killer bees anymore- the CaLogis has been neutered. This is butthurt assaults that want their suit to do it all and nothing else. Don't fool yourselves, they won't rest until we're as useless as Chromosome again, mark my words. I'm sorry mate, but this simply isn't true. I'm not some butthurt assault slayer whining about logis being too good at everything. I play either as a sniper (with logi dropsuit - go figure out why), or a heavy. I'm not advocating logis should be nerfed, and especially not rendered useless. Logis should be good at, well, logistics. Frankly, if you ask me, I would take away the equipment slot from assaults, to make logis even more important on the battlefield than they are now! However, although they should be able to handle themselves in firefights, they can't rival assaults in that department. Not even close.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 423	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:05:00 - [127] - Quote Gallente and caldari logi are the only ones that really have a problem. The amount of health they can have is what makes logis more assault. Most assaults dont use a sidearm anyway, so that point fails. No logi should have more than 3 highs and 3 lows, but maintain the same fitting optimization to utilize their equipment slots like they're supposed to. This game needs respecs every month. uMad buttsmex
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:20:00 - [128] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: What is people's obsession with trying to force everyone into their idea of what a logi suit should be. I'm a logibro, I'm carrying full equipment slots, but if someone wants to go about things the ass backwards way and turn a logi into an assault suit, fine, it doesn't affect me. If a heavy wants to strap on a sniper rifle or scouts a MD, whatever, that is the point of the suit design to leave room for flexibility. BTW the limiting logis to sidearms only is the dumbest idea if only because CCP will either have to do respecs or hemmorrage logi players Assaults don't have flexibility. ..your argument is invalid.....assaults have to be slayers they only get 1 equipment where as logis can be logis or slayers with 3 equipment slots and more hp...give assaults more hp or give them their second equipment back Then play logi. Buffng the HP a little would be fair, but anymore than a little would be ridiculous as assaults already get bonuses to shield regeneration, speed. and stamina and if you don't think those benefits mean anything, then by all means go slayer logi. You are also discounting the variety of slayer types that assault suits are able to accomplish due to the often discounted and underrated sidearm. Perhaps you've noticed how beastly the Laser/SMG assaults are or shotgun/scrambler pistol or ScR/Flaylock etc... Assaults can manage combat versatility better than any logi except perhaps the Amarr logi which has always been intended as the more assault/logi hybrid. Assault players who are whiney about not being logis need to STFU and be a logi then. Yes logis are more versatile than assault but assault suits are better for killing. If you honestly think logi suits are better for slaying than assault suits you are probably worse than me at this game which is awfully bad.
Xyl5 Raging Pack of Homosapiens 15	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:30:00 - [129] - Quote I use both Assault and Logistics and I use them a little bit different from each other. I use Assault if my team is pushing and I use Logistics if my team is getting pushed. But I find myself using Assault more than the Logistics. Simply because it is faster and the secondary weapon is a must since I am almost always in the middle of the killzone. I can't stress enough the importance of a secondary weapon in a gunfight, especially if it is against a Proto tank suit. And for those who says a Logistic suit should run a certain way are a bunch of uneducated sacks of skin. We are not a designated "Medic." Everyone can be a Medic. I, for one, do not like a Medic Role. Simply because I'd rather not waste my time trying to revive and and repping someone when I know I can do better by just killing the enemy than healing a teammate. I run my Logistics as a defender/re-locator. I use nanohives, explosives, and uplinks. IF securing a location to be a spawn point for teammates, especially if there's no other spawn locations, not being a Logistic then you are one brainless talking piece of meat. It's like if Logistics is not running as it's "supposed" to be to other people's eyes then he should be punished. But if a complaining assault runs around playing as a medic then he should be awarded. What a load of bullcrap. I will now start calling this "Nerfind Brigade" in Dust forums, Feminists. Because they act like one. Each person has access to their own skill tree and they level it up according to their playstyle, not yours. So stop being a prick and leave other people's decisions. And another note for you knuckleheads, I don't use tanks. I use damage mods and rechargers because tanks are overrated.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 605	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:33:00 - [130] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. Or -Change the current +1 armor repair per level to the current Gallente -5% equipment CPU/PG usage per level You do realize that without the +1 armor repair per second bonus we would need to rely on other logis right? I do slightly agree with the part in bold, but on the other hand, we should be able to do what we want with our suits as well. Revive Repair Resupply & Team Spawn (It's what I do)

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 819	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:42:00 - [131] - Quote make the armour repair amount a bonus to an armour rep module so that without the mod you get no bonus. bring the high-slot availability in line across assault and logi variants so that a logi suit can't put out more dps than an assault.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 146	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:53:00 - [132] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Let's be honest here, the logistics suit needs SOME kind of nerf. -- snip even more BS -- Okay I will be honest. This is my honest reply to your suggestion, Logi Bro: I am sick to death of this game, SP grinding, CCP and these forums. Every time some CoD dork and their twins from BF* get beat on the Kill Board in WP by a Logi we get this entire cycle of crap repeated. OMG! Nerf the Logi! In the future try this: If you say, we are going to Nerf any Suit, Weapon, Module, Vehicle or Skill give me my damned money back. At the very least, give me the option of resetting my SP ... in game. Not forcing me to abandon the game for weeks because CCP couldn't be bothered to reset mine while others got theirs. The Beta isn't over. It is Dead. Just like Chromosome. What we have now is an empty shell of the great potential that was DUST514 BETA, twisted by its connection to EVE and that horrid Skill ranking (which is based on passive SP exclusively), stupid modules (Hey, it saved making new icons!) and a chainsaw to the game once a month. I would love to know where this is headed because I would bet real world cash that CCP has no stinking clue. Just keep hacking in the grass, snow and breaking the game. Logi Bro, stuff it. I never want to hear your name again. I honestly mean it, Logi Bro. -Wow. Rough day Kal? I agree with you, nerfing anything at this point seems counterproductive. The lower turn and strafe speeds of the logis already define it in its role, and it really hurts my gun game when I switch from assault to logi. The logi is pre-nerfed and there's no reason to gimp it further.
Sladen Faust G.R.A.V.E 22	Posted - 2013.11.04 22:55:00 - [133] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) They use CaLogis because that suit was super OP in early uprising. The slot layout is still questionable at best (should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) but was re-balanced while all logis took a recharge delay nerf. The logisault issue has been fixed, but misinformed players butthurt over dying to a yellow suit carry a torch. They hate us for getting more WP, they hate us for being able to carry more equipment, they hate us for getting kills when they think yellow = easy kill. Stop looking for free kills in an FPS with these per-concieved notions that a logistics class should be tethered to a heavy or a squad's personal pack mule. There's no Geneva Convention in New Eden. Grow a pair and stop crying. Completely agree. The one thing people forget is that we play this game to play how we want. Not how the general public wants us to. A game in which you can skill what you want because you want to is the main reason this game caught peoples attention in the first place.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 758	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:13:00 - [134] - Quote Deacon Obvious wrote: RydogV wrote: Quote: If the logistics suit were to get a nerf, what would you prefer it be? Answer: An Assault Dropsuit buff. For real, this whole issue could be solved by changes to the suit bonuses like: Assault : +30% Damage Modifier Module Efficacy Logistics: -40% Damage Modifier Module Efficacy I run Gallente Logi exclusively, and as a support oriented player, I've never seriously considered Damage Modifiers for my high slots. Killing is a distinct secondary, but if you practice you can be very effective with no Damage Mods and a Toxin BP rifle. I'm hoping to see a more detailed bonus system coming to suits soon. There's a lot of shaping of suits and roles that can be done by changing fitting costs or module efficacy on a per suit basis. If the Assault suits get a buff, why do the logis need a nerf? I am getting more an more convinced that logis are not OP at all. It seems to me that some people just think that an Assault suit should beat a Logi 10/10 times just because of names of the suit, and when said people get killed by a Logi, they go to the forums and cry 'OP'. Seriously, nerf Logi threads pop up like every week as if they are on a timer. Its **ing ridiculous. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]** Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1146	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:17:00 - [135] - Quote Reduced damage output, that way it's not a slaying suit but it can surely defend itself. "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1416	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:20:00 - [136] - Quote How about we see if we can buff the assault before we nerf the entire logi class because only one variant is slightly OP at the proto tier cough callogi cough cough _(* *)> 194th <( . )> <--it's a penguin ~'''~'''~
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 343	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:32:00 - [137] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: How about we see if we can buff the assault before we nerf the entire logi class because only one variant is slightly OP at the proto tier cough callogi cough cough No, they are ALL OP at proto. Some are slightly OP, some are extremely OP. As mutliple people have now pointed out, there is no sane reason for logis to have MORE SLOTS than a regular assault. Proto assaults, have 6 or 7 slots. Proto logis, have 8, or 9 ??? That is insane. At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:44:00 - [138] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: How about we see if we can buff the assault before we nerf the entire logi class because only one variant is slightly OP at the proto tier cough callogi cough cough No,(1) they are ALL OP at proto. Some are slightly OP, some are extremely OP. As mutliple people have now pointed out, there is no sane reason for logis to have MORE SLOTS than a regular assault. (2)Proto assaults, have 6 or 7 slots. Proto logis, have 8, or 9 ??? That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. 1. Amarr Assault is much better at killing than the Amarr Logi. Amarr Logi is better at surviving than Amarr Assault. They are well balanced to eachother. 2. Amarr Logi has 7 module slots at Proto level. 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]* Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1161	Posted - 2013.11.04 23:57:00 - [139] - Quote If you think i suck then you should probably get your ego checked cuz its way to big...I'm about making balance where as none of you have played against an Imp in a logi suit otherwise ud understand...hell a lot of top slayers still run cal logi wonder why?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 476	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:13:00 - [140] - Quote the only reasonable suggestion you offer was the must use all equipment. side arm leaves you at a serious disadvantage to all mid/long range weapons which are going to melt you in seconds at any range. reduced wp for kills punishes you for actually killing anyone which at the end of the day is what the game is all about. i think that's counter productive even when balanced with getting more for support. how do you rate support. for me support is anything that aids other players even assists. helping someone you are repairing kill an enemy when they are only taking little or no damage just makes sense. guardian points are not always an option 50% reduction to damage... might aswell just give all logis sticks to fight with. a damage reduction would leave logis at a severe disadvantage in every situation. its hard enough for real logis to stay alive as it is. the pg/cpu would be nice however the downside to that allows already assault logis the ability to fit their equipment easier... full tank, proto suit with all proto weapons can fit his equipment easier but with this it might make their miss use more miss usable. for me the only reasonable option is the must fit all equipment slots. better still all logi suits would be better off coming with pre fit logi role specific militia equipment attached like on beginner fits. needle, repair tool,nano hive if 3 slots and the 4th would be empty if 4 slots. this way you can override them with better gear or leave them for better tank damage fitting. either way it would take up pg/cpu as standard without nerfing their role for already logi bro's Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find

Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 343	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:22:00 - [141] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper*. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. And they have less base stats, Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 761	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:39:00 - [142] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. And they have less base stats, Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots. You are only mad that logis can have more EHP? Then take some of our base EHP away, but make us run as fast as Assaults. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]* Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 476	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:42:00 - [143] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. EXACTLY*. Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots. reducing slots is far from appropriate. removing slots would have to be replaced with increased base ehp . not increasing base stats would be a huge nerf on true logis. not to mention removing a slot would then require the reduction of pg/cpu to compensate. this kind of negates what your trying to do. sorry but removing slots makes no sense. remove slot only leave excess pg/cp and reduces ehp of tru logis meaning logis fit less equipment to compensate leading and assault logis just fit biugger better gear from the excess pg/cpu remove a slot but reduce pg/cpu to compensate has the same situation as above. fit equipment or fit tank. this doesnt solve the issue either. remove a slot, reduce pg/cpu, increase base stats to compensate does not effect assault logis as the ehp would remain pretty much unchanged. the only real fix is the one thing that seperates the 2 roles and that equipment. only via equipment can the 2 roles be seperated not this nonsense about removing slots. forcing equipment use or having a seperate equipment pg/cpu is the only way these are going to be fixed. a true logi uses equipment. they should not be penalised for others using it differently. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Cpt Merdock The Exemplars Top Men. 94	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:43:00 - [144] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! Amen to this...I as a fellow Assault Rifle user would honestly think the game would be more fun right now if we just took Assault Rifles out lol. This is Dust514 not battlefield. We are suppose to be in freaking space. You dont see assault rifles in Halo do you?
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 761	Posted - 2013.11.05 00:56:00 - [145] - Quote Cpt Merdock wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! Amen to this...I as a fellow Assault Rifle user would honestly think the game would be more fun right now if we just took Assault Rifles out lol. This is Dust514 not battlefield. We are suppose to be in freaking space. You dont see assault rifles in Halo do you? Uhhh. As much as I agree with you, there are Assault Rifles in Halo. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 75	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:18:00 - [146] - Quote Cpt Merdock wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! Amen to this...I as a fellow Assault Rifle user would honestly think the game would be more fun right now if we just took Assault Rifles out lol. This is Dust514 not battlefield. We are suppose to be in freaking space. You dont see assault rifles in Halo do you? Halo 1 and 2 have assault rifles. Haven't played any of the later halos.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 343	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:18:00 - [147] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: reducing slots is far from appropriate. removing slots would have to be replaced with increased base ehp . I dont see any reason to do that. Quote: not increasing base stats would be a huge nerf on true logis. how are you defining "true logis"? Because using the normal definition of "using 2x EQ to help the team" is in no way affected by the above. If you're additionally defining true logis as ".... and having heavy-levels of survivability"... your definition is wrong. Someone who is running around dropping eq, and repairing/reviving people, should not be seeing sustained fire, therefore, they shouldnt NEED heavy-levels of survivability. Therefore, the above, should not affect "true logis" in any way. If you disagree, then give a specific example of how. Quote: not to mention removing a slot would then require the reduction of pg/cpu to compensate. why? They could have infinite pg and cpu, and it wouldnt make a difference, if the slot count were suitably low. They'd just have left-over pg/cpu if they chose to under-equip EQ. Just the same as any OTHER suit. The biggest limiting factor to almost any suit, is its number of slots. logi shouldnt be any different. Therefore, the slot count reduction by itself, is fine It would then effectively be a straight up, "assault suit, with sidearm slot traded for extra EQ slot" That by itself, is mostly balanced. Certainly more balanced than the current situation. Although as I said, removing an additional low-slot in trade for the free repper, would be even more balanced.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 762	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:29:00 - [148] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: reducing slots is far from appropriate. removing slots would have to be replaced with increased base ehp . I dont see any reason to do that. Quote: not increasing base stats would be a huge nerf on true logis. how are you defining "true logis"? Because using the normal definition of "using 2x EQ to help the team" is in no way affected by the above. If you're additionally defining true logis as ".... and having heavy-levels of survivability"... your definition is wrong. Someone who is running around dropping eq, and repairing/reviving people, should not be seeing sustained fire, therefore, they shouldnt NEED heavy-levels of survivability. Quote: not to mention removing a slot would then require the reduction of pg/cpu to compensate. why? They could have infinite pg and cpu, and it wouldnt make a difference, if the slot count were suitably low. They'd just have left-over pg/cpu if they chose to under-equip EQ. Just the same as any OTHER suit. The biggest limiting factor to almost any suit, is its number of slots. logi shouldnt be any different. Therefore, the slot count reduction by itself, is fine It would then effectively be a straight up, "assault suit, with sidearm slot traded for extra EQ slot" That by itself, is mostly balanced. Certainly more balanced than the current situation. Although as I said, removing an additional low-slot in trade for the free repper, would be even more balanced. "assault suit, with sidearm slot traded for extra EQ slot" No it would be: Assault suit with lower base stat and sidearm slot traded for EQ slots. You are a butthurt assault. That much is clear at this point. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2311	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:40:00 - [149] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! You say neither as if I gave you a choice between two things. I said come up with something you would want to happen if it absolutely had to happen. The logi suit is undoubtedly the most powerful suit in the game at the moment, I have enough experience to testify to it. If you truly think that the logi suit is perfectly balanced at the moment, I severely overestimated your intelligence. SOMETHING needs to be changed, and as I clearly stated, I don't necessarily believe in any of the ones I listed, just the fact that something needs to change. BTW, I only just now looked at this thread since I posted it, so to anyone reading this, I am not going to go through every single response and answer them one by one, just going to look at the first page or so. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 637	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:47:00 - [150] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: -50% reduced damage like the Logistics LAVs um what ? logi lavs have the highest base stats of any vehicle in dust and do not really deal any dmg numbers...how do they have a 50% damage reduction? and forcing the logi's to only use side arms is 100% ludicrous i cant believe ur in eon with ideas like this lol and as for all of you slayers crying i dont understand how you can justify it your assault suits are better at killing period they are faster have more attack ability and more vigor it is very rare for a battle logi to pull high kdr's alone everything in dust requires teamwork and a decked out assault suit is better than a logi trying to be an assault anyday..i have the amarian logi i have the amarian assault i prefer the assault for killing gasps why..because it is better at killing..if your getting stomped by equivalent lvl logi's and you in your assault either a. you suck or b. your fitting sucks if their is a logi/assault imbalance it does not exist in our empress's army and must be something found solely among the heretics gear stop qqing please just stop it

Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2311	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:52:00 - [151] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Should the logis be nerfed yet? As you said, they are too good at the moment, but I don't think you should start figuring out what nerf logis need until two things happen: * Increasing the Time-To-Kill because a low TTK makes balancing things a serious pain and reduces the fun of the game * Buff assaults. Currently the Assault class kills things just as fast as any other suit. That feels wrong to me. They should have an increased ability to attack (with some setbacks in other areas compared to other mediums like their total eHP) to define themselves as Assaults. After those two things happen and the dust settles, then I feel it will be time to see what modifications you logis need. Problem is, I've already advocated to buff other classes. I had a thread that I took a significant amount of time thinking about the best bonuses to befit the classes, and it never got a dev response. I would have even been ok with a, "yeah, we have our own ideas already," from a dev, but all I got was silence. SInce it is obvious CCP is unwilling to buff, I have now resorted to asking what the most popular nerf would be, though since the, "lets keep logi's at their super-sayain 9001," argument is the most common argument that I have seen so far, there is a clear rift between CCP's and the community's approaches towards balance, without a possibility of compromise. Once the dust settles, as you say, a large portion of the playerbase will either have ragequit because they disagree with how CCP handled balance, or CCP will cave in and balance things in favor of the community's opinion, which in all fairness, is mostly uneducated in the balance of games. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
Cosgar ParagonX 7261	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:53:00 - [152] - Quote Let me reiterate my point from the previous 49587340957 logi gate topics: The original argument was that a logistics suit could leave their slots empty and get an extra tank with their additional CPU/PG. Though true, this only gimps the suit down to an extra tanky, slow, expensive assault suit that lacks a sidearm while ignoring the advantages equipment gives logistics suits. If you look back in earlier uprising topics and even pre-uprising, players warned CCP about the Caldari logistics because it was overpowering compared to other suits. That suit had ungodly amounts of CPU/PG, a racial bonus to shield extenders which added to shield > armor imbalance and a ridiculous module slot layout. (I still think it should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) The suit was nerfed because all you would see were the top corps using CaLogi and TAC ARs. (which was stupid OP at the time too) The Amarr suit got a much needed buff to put it in line of its logi/assault hybrid design, and the other suits took a (arguably unnecessary) nerf to their shield recharge delay. All we have is lingering butthurt from either misinformed players, players that don't understand the concept of incomparable game mechanics, tryhards that are upset over the tradeoffs between logistics and assault, or those just want yellow to = easy kill. Neither suit is better than the other, it just comes down to style of play. Assaults are faster, can use sidearms, have a (useless on some suits) shield recharge bonus, and better base stats. Logistics have the worst base stats out of all the medium frames, have base HP almost as low as scouts and no sidearm. (except for the Amarr, but doesn't have an offensive bonus compared to the assault) All this is traded for more equipment and module slots than assaults, which could be a weakness in itself since it makes the suit more equipment reliable and outright more expensive. I agree that some of the assaults bonuses are unattractive, but that's an assault problem, not a logistics problem. Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. I don't see scouts saying that other suits need to be nerfed because their suits are lacking, I don't see pilots complaining about other roles, and I sure as hell don't see heavies complaining either. If a commando requested for other suits to be nerfed, he'd probably be laughed off the forums. If a plasma cannoneer wanted every other weapon nerfed because their weapon was under performing, same result. There's been countless topics- even by you, Logi Bro, requesting for assaults to be buffed, but the logi witch hunt continues. What makes it worse is that we even have dedicated logibros trying to negotiate terms. This won't just end with one nerf, the witch hunt will continue and it will continue. If we get nerfed to sidearms, you'll start seeing people crying about sidearms being OP, (surprised the SMG has avoided the nerf bat this long, but that's a topic within itself) they'll want to reduce points for logis getting the occasional kill, when they're trying to protect their squad, they won't rest until our walking animation is us crawling backwards with our lubed yellow, target painted asses are pointed up in the air for the assaults to take what's theirs. All this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. We need more diversity on the battlefield, not less. This game needs to be more team based, every class should have its usefulness on the field, whether it's a vehicle giving their team a needed advantage, a flanking scout that can run distraction, heavies that can push back or even annihilate anyone dumb enough to go toe-to-toe with them- with a gun that ing works!!! Stop the nerfing, stop listening to people upset over losing the occasional 1 v 1 duel in a team based game, STOP KILLING THIS GAME!!! I ask you nicely, not just as a Minmatar, not just as a Logibro, but a fellow player. Stop the madness. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1249	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:57:00 - [153] - Quote I would PREFER just switching out the Logi and Assault mod slots and changing the Racial Bonuses. The overall Logi bonus BELONGS there, or no one would run Logi. There would be less Logis, yes, but people that are dedicated to it wouldn't abandon it because of 2 slight changes. :D
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 357	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:07:00 - [154] - Quote You want to balance assault vs logi do this, take the extra 5% damage buff all weapons got at the end of chromosome. Give a racial specific scaling % bonus to all assault suits 1% at level 1 all the way up to 5% at level 5, but this is for racial specific weapons determined by manufacturer. This way even racial variants of certain weapons, such as the sniper rifle can make up for their racial deficiencies (gallentee sniper is going to not even have half the range of a caldari one, but would hit incredibly hard, espcially in a gall assault suit.)
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2311	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:16:00 - [155] - Quote I'm not going to bother quoting your wall of text, seeing as how it takes up 50% of a page. I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot everything you were arguing or any good points you might have made when I read this part: Cosgar wrote: Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. lolwut? I am correct in assuming that this was directed towards me? How am I dragging down other game mechanics because I feel that my mechanics are lacking? I did not at any point mention heavies, assaults, or scouts. I only mentioned logistics, which I believe you can guess from my name, are 99% of what I do. So they are not OTHER mechanics, they are MY mechanics. By definition, I am requesting that my mechanics be nerfed because mine are severely over the mark. They are too powerful. The opposite of lacking. I regularly have the highest KD/R on my team whilst also having the highest WPs. That lack of a sidearm ain't doin' **** to my lethal capabilities. Let me put it this way, have you read my signature? I didn't just put it there because I couldn't think of anything witty or funny to put in its place, I put that phrase as my signature because when I started this game, I was lucky to see a single other logistics player in the game. But now, at least 50% of every game I play is infested with logistics players. Do you think the massive influx of logi's was brought on by a sudden bout of kindness? Yes, it is partly because of improved mechanics, like actually being able to revive people with nanite injectors, but it was mostly brought on by the power that the logi now possesses. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1842	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:18:00 - [156] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper*. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. And they have less base stats, Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots. Every single post I read from you makes my blood pressure rise.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 765	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:21:00 - [157] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. And they have less base stats, Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots. Every single post I read from you makes my blood pressure rise. IKR! His butthurt idiocy is infuriating! He has NO idea how balance works and merely wants his suit to be better. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]* Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Cosgar ParagonX 7261	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:21:00 - [158] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: ... That wasn't directed at you, not sure where you got that impression from. You were one of the few people to advocate buffing assaults along with me, I even linked your topic in multiple threads back then. I don't have anything against you. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1843	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:24:00 - [159] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I'm not going to bother quoting your wall of text, seeing as how it takes up 50% of a page. I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot everything you were arguing or any good points you might have made when I read this part: Cosgar wrote: Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. lolwut? I am correct in assuming that this was directed towards me? How am I dragging down other game mechanics because I feel that my mechanics are lacking? I did not at any point mention heavies, assaults, or scouts. I only mentioned logistics, which I believe you can guess from my name, are 99% of what I do. So they are not OTHER mechanics, they are MY mechanics. By definition, I am requesting that my mechanics be nerfed because mine are severely over the mark. They are too powerful. The opposite of lacking. I regularly have the highest KD/R on my team whilst also having the highest WPs. That lack of a sidearm ain't doin' ** to my lethal capabilities. Let me put it this way, have you read my signature? I didn't just put it there because I couldn't think of anything witty or funny to put in its place, I put that phrase as my signature because when I started this game, I was lucky to see a single other logistics player in the game. But now, at least 50% of every game I play is infested with logistics players. Do you think the massive influx of logi's was brought on by a sudden bout of kindness? Yes, it is partly because of improved mechanics, like actually being able to revive people with nanite injectors, but it was mostly brought on by the power that the logi now possesses. I think the logi as we all used to think of it progressed into what it currently is because of poor logi mechanics. 1) The nanite injector being destroyed upon the release of Uprising 2) Not being able to see low armor on teammates thus having a rep tool with nobody to rep Buffing the assault and heavy suits is a better option because it doesn't off the massive amount of logis in Dust. Why ** off the majority of your player base?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1843	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:27:00 - [160] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: That is insane. *(3)At best, they should have the same amount as assaults. But really, they should have one less, because due to logi skill, they get a free repper*. So there's no excuse to have anything more than (assault suit -1) slots. Specifically, lose 1low slot from the matching race's proto assault suit slots, and balancing is all done. ... 4. Logis get more slots because their base stats are lower than Assault suit stats. And they have less base stats, Because they're supposed to be less powerful than assault suits. The original game designer made a foolish assumption that if they made a suit with 2 eq slots, people would use them. If they used them, then they wouldnt have the power to super-tank with free slots. But suit abusers dont use the slots. "So force people to use the slots!!" No, that's lame. you shouldnt force people to do stuff like that, any more than you should force people to use the grenade slot in other suits. Besides, its really nice to give people the freedom to spec into only ONE proto suit, and be able to use it for logi type stuff, OR frontline assault type stuff. Just dont make its frontline capabilities better than the supposed frontline suits. There are only two remaining, reasonable ways to do that: 1. reduce power (not appropropriate, due to EQ demands) or 2. reduce slots. Which is totally appropriate, since its effect is to directly remove the capability for abuse. There has been no rational argument along the lines of "dont reduce slots, because..." There has been only "(do this other thing instead)" That would be because there IS NO rational argument to support keeping that number of slots on a logi. That number of slots does not in any way match up with the supposed goal of making an equipment-deploying suit. The goal here is to take away the super-tank-ness of logistics suits, that comes from stacking shields plus armor slots in the abnormally high slot count logis. So take away the excessive slots. Every single post I read from you makes my blood pressure rise. IKR! His butthurt idiocy is infuriating! He has NO idea how balance works and merely wants his suit to be better. That's a reach, maybe I just don't like his tone

Cosgar ParagonX 7264	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:28:00 - [161] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I'm not going to bother quoting your wall of text, seeing as how it takes up 50% of a page. I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot everything you were arguing or any good points you might have made when I read this part: Cosgar wrote: Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. lolwut? I am correct in assuming that this was directed towards me? How am I dragging down other game mechanics because I feel that my mechanics are lacking? I did not at any point mention heavies, assaults, or scouts. I only mentioned logistics, which I believe you can guess from my name, are 99% of what I do. So they are not OTHER mechanics, they are MY mechanics. By definition, I am requesting that my mechanics be nerfed because mine are severely over the mark. They are too powerful. The opposite of lacking. I regularly have the highest KD/R on my team whilst also having the highest WPs. That lack of a sidearm ain't doin' ** to my lethal capabilities. Let me put it this way, have you read my signature? I didn't just put it there because I couldn't think of anything witty or funny to put in its place, I put that phrase as my signature because when I started this game, I was lucky to see a single other logistics player in the game. But now, at least 50% of every game I play is infested with logistics players. Do you think the massive influx of logi's was brought on by a sudden bout of kindness? Yes, it is partly because of improved mechanics, like actually being able to revive people with nanite injectors, but it was mostly brought on by the power that the logi now possesses. I think the logi as we all used to think of it progressed into what it currently is because of poor logi mechanics. 1) The nanite injector being destroyed upon the release of Uprising 2) Not being able to see low armor on teammates thus having a rep tool with nobody to rep Buffing the assault and heavy suits is a better option because it doesn't off the massive amount of logis in Dust. Why ** off the majority of your player base? I really doubt that logis are the majority of our player base. A significant number maybe, but not the majority. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1843	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:45:00 - [162] - Quote I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit
Cosgar ParagonX 7266	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:49:00 - [163] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit If medium frame suits weren't the only viable thing in this game, we wouldn't be having this argument. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1844	Posted - 2013.11.05 03:02:00 - [164] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit If medium frame suits weren't the only viable thing in this game, we wouldn't be having this argument. I agree but it is what it is. CCP has done a LOT of nerfing. I'd rather see a buff to the assault suit. The heavy suit may be just fine after the upcoming buff. I think the scout suit still needs more. Ships in Eve get damage bonuses all the time, why not give the assault suit damage bonuses? It solves the issue without pissing people off.
Cosgar ParagonX 7268	Posted - 2013.11.05 03:06:00 - [165] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit If medium frame suits weren't the only viable thing in this game, we wouldn't be having this argument. I agree but it is what it is. CCP has done a LOT of nerfing. I'd rather see a buff to the assault suit. The heavy suit may be just fine after the upcoming buff. I think the scout suit still needs more. Ships in Eve get damage bonuses all the time, why not give the assault suit damage bonuses? It solves the issue without pissing people off. Assaults need a buff, HMG needs a huge buff instead of the suit, and scouts need a Lifetime Movie dedicated to how bad they got ****ed. I would agree with a damage bonus to assaults, but that would further screw heavies and scouts. But if TTK wasn't so insanely short, it could work. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 553	Posted - 2013.11.05 03:22:00 - [166] - Quote I have a question. What baseline do you guys judge how each suit should behave? Without considering stats, what do you think the pro and cons of each suit should be? I've been using this mind set so far: Assaults ++ Attack - Defense Assaults have the highest capability in killing things, but at the cost of dying faster. Logistics ++ Buffing + Defense - Attack - Speed Logistics get a little more defense and a greatly increased capability to enhance their team's performance while losing some combat capability and speed. Sentinel ++ Defense +/- Attack -- Speed - Equipment Heavies get an enormous boost to their eHP but at the cost of speed, lack of equipment, and combat versatility. This does not mean the Heavy's weapons are weak but that they are situational. When that situation occurs their weapons are monstrous. Scout ++ Stealth ++ Debuffing ++ Speed -- Defense To make up for their pitifully low health, scouts rely on not being seen, quickly eliminating threats, and escaping at high speeds if detected. In addition they also specialize in reducing the effectiveness of the enemy team. Commando + Defense + Attack - Speed Something of a compromise between the Assault and Heavy, the commando has increased eHP over the standard medium but also is slower and features two light weapons to increase its combat capabilities.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 14	Posted - 2013.11.05 08:10:00 - [167] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: I have a question. What baseline do you guys judge how each suit should behave? Without considering stats, what do you think the pro and cons of each suit should be? I've been using this mind set so far: Assaults ++ Attack - Defense Assaults have the highest capability in killing things, but at the cost of dying faster. Logistics ++ Buffing + Defense - Attack - Speed Logistics get a little more defense and a greatly increased capability to enhance their team's performance while losing some combat capability and speed. Sentinel ++ Defense +/- Attack -- Speed - Equipment Heavies get an enormous boost to their eHP but at the cost of speed, lack of equipment, and combat versatility. This does not mean the Heavy's weapons are weak but that they are situational. When that situation occurs their weapons are monstrous. Scout ++ Stealth ++ Debuffing ++ Speed -- Defense To make up for their pitifully low health, scouts rely on not being seen, quickly eliminating threats, and escaping at high speeds if detected. In addition they also specialize in reducing the effectiveness of the enemy team. Commando + Defense + Attack - Speed Something of a compromise between the Assault and Heavy, the commando has increased eHP over the standard medium but also is slower and features two light weapons to increase its combat capabilities. The way I see it is assaults should be good at killing things - but only by virtue of having great ehp that can easily be recovered. Logistics may have similar hp totals but should take longer to recover it - they can still kill people but they should be earning their wp through uplinks, nano hives, injectors, rep tools and potentially scanners. Scouts are there to flank, take out key units and generally be nonstandard 'support' for their teams. Heavies should be the 'backbone' of a team able touring the meanest nastiest weapons to the table but requiring the assistance of a few buddies in order to really make them shine.
Jebus McKing Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 162	Posted - 2013.11.05 08:42:00 - [168] - Quote I get the feeling all the people in here who are complaining about Logis with more HP than Assaults are exactly those who charge a Logi head on expecting the Logi to go down. They feel entitled to be able to kill him because in their perception he is a mere "support" class. The moment they then get their ass handed to them is the moment when they start complaining. Assaults and Logistics should be and currently are on par when it comes to killing people if the player knows what the ** he is doing. If you expect to charge a Logi head on, guns blazing then you deserve to lose your clone. Use tactics, use your strenghs, use your speed and sidearm! Don't expect others to be weaker than you just because** you are in an Assault suit. @JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet. ò_Ô
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 435	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:44:00 - [169] - Quote We are just making these kind of threads just to get a reply from CCP, right? Only change the logis? Nope. Only change the assaults? Nope. ... The correct answer is: total game redesign. Just don't expect an answer from CCP until they actually implement all the changes.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 673	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:50:00 - [170] - Quote My repair tool is getting buffed. Ain't nobodeh gon' take dat from me. I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.

Code Slucid Geisha Girls 50	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:56:00 - [171] - Quote It won't matter!!!!! take my weapon & i'll still get a solo OB!!!! this announcement come from the one and ONLY!!!! Mama Code! ;_; PS:!!!!!!! It wouldn't matter seriously... a true logi will always adapt =] PSS:!!! I'm a gallente logi
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 900	Posted - 2013.11.05 11:16:00 - [172] - Quote The changes I would like to see for Logistics is a focus on slow regeneration, slower speed but comparable performance over one fight. The Assault should be able to rebound from damage more easily and relentlessly assault enemies, while the Logistics should be able to take out an enemy or two when they need to, without being able to regenerate and take out more twenty seconds later. This seems to have been CCP's intention with the lower shielding, lower shield recharge, lower speed and the armor repair bonus. It's just not enough. Here's what I'd put up with. All equipment slots must be used. Kills earn 30% less WP. Assists and Support WP is increased by 20%. 25% reduction in maximum ammo per clip for Light weapons. Excludes Plasma Cannons, Mass Drivers/Shotguns/etcetera would be rounded up. 1 less grenade, no contact grenades. The same shield delays as a Heavy. Logistics bonus of 3% reduction in equipment fitting cost. Forcing everyone to run full equipment reduces players trying to use it exclusively as an Assault suit. Lowering kill WP and raising assist WP puts less of a focus on killing as simply helping others kill, in general. Raising support WP obviously encourages supporting the team with the equipment. Lower Light weapon ammunition and grenades means Logistics players can take out an enemy or two, but cannot assault endlessly without having to reload and resupply. For instance, an Assault suit with AR would have 60/3 ammo and the Logistics would have 45/2. The shield delays force the Logistics to avoid engaging in combat excessively. However, I doubt much will be done. Right now, CCP just wants to change the existing attributes to balance the classes. They'll just change around the slots, health and speed, as usual. These things don't directly enough affect its role; they just make it better, or worse. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1056	Posted - 2013.11.05 11:40:00 - [173] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: The changes I would like to see for Logistics is a focus on slow regeneration, slower speed but comparable performance over one fight. The Assault should be able to rebound from damage more easily and relentlessly assault enemies, while the Logistics should be able to take out an enemy or two when they need to, without being able to regenerate and take out more twenty seconds later. This seems to have been CCP's intention with the lower shielding, lower shield recharge, lower speed and the armor repair bonus. It's just not enough. Here's what I'd put up with. All equipment slots must be used. Kills earn 30% less WP. Assists and Support WP is increased by 20%. 25% reduction in maximum ammo per clip for Light weapons. Excludes Plasma Cannons, Mass Drivers/Shotguns/etcetera would be rounded up. 1 less grenade, no contact grenades. The same shield delays as a Heavy. Logistics bonus of 3% reduction in equipment fitting cost. Forcing everyone to run full equipment reduces players trying to use it exclusively as an Assault suit. Lowering kill WP and raising assist WP puts less of a focus on killing as simply helping others kill, in general. Raising support WP obviously encourages supporting the team with the equipment. Lower Light weapon ammunition and grenades means Logistics players can take out an enemy or two, but cannot assault endlessly without having to reload and resupply. For instance, an Assault suit with AR would have 60/3 ammo and the Logistics would have 45/2. The shield delays force the Logistics to avoid engaging in combat excessively. However, I doubt much will be done. Right now, CCP just wants to change the existing attributes to balance the classes. They'll just change around the slots, health and speed, as usual. These things don't directly enough affect its role; they just make it better, or worse. So your basically asking for even your teams logo to be useless. I can hear it now "Hey logi bro we got a guy down an I need ammo an reps" Logi bro says " good luck with that, I have 5 bullets in my gun, 400 total HP , an you guys already used my good hives an I couldn't even fit a needle on my suit since the nerf, so I'm sitting in a corner with profile dampeners on, next to the scout; we re placing bets on how long its gonna take for the assaults to ***** at ccp that they nerfed the logi so hard that theirs no hives, links or needles any more" Yup way to think ahead
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 476	Posted - 2013.11.05 13:52:00 - [174] - Quote when i find that ideal spot to setup my base of support i want/need to be able to protect that area and everyone in it. call it what you want but everyone needs to be able to fight in whatever they can fit. i often die in my 100k+ logibro suit doing my job. thats penalising enough without losing wp for kills which are harder to get anyway. i have tried the assault logi with my amarr suit and it is far from being worth it. costs more, less effective in combat due to speed and role bonus does nothing when assaulting. i dont understand why people hate the logi so much. yes its abused by a few but everyone else should not be screwed over because of that few. i could go out in a starter suit and nuke down a advanced heavy in seconds. does that make the noob suit op or the heavy weak. or does it just mean that noob is skilled. most of my deaths over the past few months have been down to militia suits and weapons regardless of my uber op tank you "pro nerf" players insist i have even though i dont. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1022	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:21:00 - [175] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Let me reiterate my point from the previous 49587340957 logi gate topics: The original argument was that a logistics suit could leave their slots empty and get an extra tank with their additional CPU/PG. Though true, this only gimps the suit down to an extra tanky, slow, expensive assault suit that lacks a sidearm while ignoring the advantages equipment gives logistics suits. If you look back in earlier uprising topics and even pre-uprising, players warned CCP about the Caldari logistics because it was overpowering compared to other suits. That suit had ungodly amounts of CPU/PG, a racial bonus to shield extenders which added to shield > armor imbalance and a ridiculous module slot layout. (I still think it should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) The suit was nerfed because all you would see were the top corps using CaLogi and TAC ARs. (which was stupid OP at the time too) The Amarr suit got a much needed buff to put it in line of its logi/assault hybrid design, and the other suits took a (arguably unnecessary) nerf to their shield recharge delay. All we have is lingering butthurt from either misinformed players, players that don't understand the concept of incomparable game mechanics, tryhards that are upset over the tradeoffs between logistics and assault, or those just want yellow to = easy kill. Neither suit is better than the other, it just comes down to style of play. Assaults are faster, can use sidearms, have a (useless on some suits) shield recharge bonus, and better base stats. Logistics have the worst base stats out of all the medium frames, have base HP almost as low as scouts and no sidearm. (except for the Amarr, but doesn't have an offensive bonus compared to the assault) All this is traded for more equipment and module slots than assaults, which could be a weakness in itself since it makes the suit more equipment reliable and outright more expensive. I agree that some of the assaults bonuses are unattractive, but that's an assault problem, not a logistics problem. Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. I don't see scouts saying that other suits need to be nerfed because their suits are lacking, I don't see pilots complaining about other roles, and I sure as hell don't see heavies complaining either. If a commando requested for other suits to be nerfed, he'd probably be laughed off the forums. If a plasma cannoneer wanted every other weapon nerfed because their weapon was under performing, same result. There's been countless topics- even by you, Logi Bro, requesting for assaults to be buffed, but the logi witch hunt continues. What makes it worse is that we even have dedicated logibros trying to negotiate terms. This won't just end with one nerf, the witch hunt will continue and it will continue. If we get nerfed to sidearms, you'll start seeing people crying about sidearms being OP, (surprised the SMG has avoided the nerf bat this long, but that's a topic within itself) they'll want to reduce points for logis getting the occasional kill, when they're trying to protect their squad, they won't rest until our walking animation is us crawling backwards with our lubed yellow, target painted asses are pointed up in the air for the assaults to take what's theirs. All this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. We need more diversity on the battlefield, not less. This game needs to be more team based, every class should have its usefulness on the field, whether it's a vehicle giving their team a needed advantage, a flanking scout that can run distraction, heavies that can push back or even annihilate anyone dumb enough to go toe-to-toe with them- with a gun that ing works!!! Stop the nerfing, stop listening to people upset over losing the occasional 1 v 1 duel in a team based game, STOP KILLING THIS GAME!!! I ask you nicely, not just as a Minmatar, not just as a Logibro, but a fellow player. Stop the madness. Preach on my Minmatar Logi brother!!!! Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 908	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:32:00 - [176] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: The changes I would like to see for Logistics is a focus on slow regeneration, slower speed but comparable performance over one fight. The Assault should be able to rebound from damage more easily and relentlessly assault enemies, while the Logistics should be able to take out an enemy or two when they need to, without being able to regenerate and take out more twenty seconds later. This seems to have been CCP's intention with the lower shielding, lower shield recharge, lower speed and the armor repair bonus. It's just not enough. Here's what I'd put up with. All equipment slots must be used. Kills earn 30% less WP. Assists and Support WP is increased by 20%. 25% reduction in maximum ammo per clip for Light weapons. Excludes Plasma Cannons, Mass Drivers/Shotguns/etcetera would be rounded up. 1 less grenade, no contact grenades. The same shield delays as a Heavy. Logistics bonus of 3% reduction in equipment fitting cost. Forcing everyone to run full equipment reduces players trying to use it exclusively as an Assault suit. Lowering kill WP and raising assist WP puts less of a focus on killing as simply helping others kill, in general. Raising support WP obviously encourages supporting the team with the equipment. Lower Light weapon ammunition and grenades means Logistics players can take out an enemy or two, but cannot assault endlessly without having to reload and resupply. For instance, an Assault suit with AR would have 60/3 ammo and the Logistics would have 45/2. The shield delays force the Logistics to avoid engaging in combat excessively. However, I doubt much will be done. Right now, CCP just wants to change the existing attributes to balance the classes. They'll just change around the slots, health and speed, as usual. These things don't directly enough affect its role; they just make it better, or worse. So your basically asking for even your teams logo to be useless. I can hear it now "Hey logi bro we got a guy down an I need ammo an reps" Logi bro says " good luck with that, I have 5 bullets in my gun, 400 total HP , an you guys already used my good hives an I couldn't even fit a needle on my suit since the nerf, so I'm sitting in a corner with profile dampeners on, next to the scout; we re placing bets on how long its gonna take for the assaults to ***** at ccp that they nerfed the logi so hard that theirs no hives, links or needles any more" Yup way to think ahead Apparently, slower healing and 25% less ammo/grenades makes Logistics players completely useless? Where did I say it would be harder to fit a needle? Everyone would get a fitting cost REDUCTION for equipment. I'm a Logistics player myself. Maybe the Logistics could gain something else. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1500	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:51:00 - [177] - Quote -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. It is a nerf to Logi that will not effect true logi at all. How could you get better than that? ____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 555	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:13:00 - [178] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. It is a nerf to Logi that will not effect true logi at all. How could you get better than that? I don't like it. Logis shouldn't have to fill all their equipment slots just like how Assaults aren't required to fit damage mods in all their high slots or scouts have to fit biotics, range extenders, or dampeners in all their low slots. Of the proposed solutions, the one that seems the best to me is still reducing the Logi's overall cpu/pg but giving a sizeable reduction to support equipment fitting costs (while still keeping their +5 armor rep) such that a true Logi bro fitting high level equipment could have the same fittings as they do now. This way Logis could be amazing logi bros but still have the freedom to create non-logi bro fittings that aren't as good as the other suits in their intended roles (after the other suits get buffs to help them fulfill their role).
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 313	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:25:00 - [179] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: SOMETHING needs to be changed, and as I clearly stated, I don't necessarily believe in any of the ones I listed, just the fact that something needs to change. BTW, I only just now looked at this thread since I posted it, so to anyone reading this, I am not going to go through every single response and answer them one by one, just going to look at the first page or so. Really? "I'm going to start a multipage thread asking for your opinions, but, well, I can't be bothered to actually read them, so... Not that I'm anyone important, but I'm done with you, Logi Bro. That's too bad, b/c back at the end of beta when I decided to play logistics, your posts here were very helpful to me. If you think that there's an issue with the suits balance, fine, that's your opinion. I disagree with it, but whatever. But to just ignore and dismiss everyone else's opinion is bullish!t. Same for listing and de facto endorsing a bunch of crap "fixes" that do nothing besides gimp this class and placate the butthurt of people who can't deal with not being on top of the leaderboard if they got the most kills. Personally, I think making equipment mandatory works well b/c I like the concept in general and don't see it as a nerf. Cosgar doesn't like the idea of going down the slippery slope, which makes sense, but I have just enough faith in CCP to assume that QQ alone is not enough to get something nerfed, they do actually look at data sometimes. At least I hope so... Bottom line: The nerf cycle needs to stop! Other than maybe the AR, which is being addressed in 1.7, there is nothing out there like the old flaylock, TAR, or CalLogi that decidedly throws things out of whack right now. How about we take a suit designed for killing and make it the best at that, instead of making something else markedly worse at it. Give the gallente a bonus like the Caldaris but for armor. Or give it an inherent armor rep. Or give racial weapons bonus' like the amarr. Do any of those fncking things but stop messing with everything else! A nerf only makes sense in the case of a single outlier. Example: nerfing the flaylock is easier than buffing 12 other weapons. Everyone seems to agree that Amarr is fine, so if you really think there's a problem, you either buff 3 suits or nerf 3 suits. There is no justification for a nerf in this case. Templar'd for her pleasure Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 314	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:41:00 - [180] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: -Must fill all equipment slots to be a valid fitting. It is a nerf to Logi that will not effect true logi at all. How could you get better than that? I don't like it. Logis shouldn't have to fill all their equipment slots just like how Assaults aren't required to fit damage mods in all their high slots or scouts have to fit biotics, range extenders, or dampeners in all their low slots. Of the proposed solutions, the one that seems the best to me is still reducing the Logi's overall cpu/pg but giving a sizeable reduction to support equipment fitting costs (while still keeping their +5 armor rep) such that a true Logi bro fitting high level equipment could have the same fittings as they do now. This way Logis could be amazing logi bros but still have the freedom to create non-logi bro fittings that aren't as good as the other suits in their intended roles (after the other suits get buffs to help them fulfill their role). The problem with this is that the math, while not incredibly complex, can completely f@ck up the logi suits if done improperly. Remember, these are the people who thought that TWENTY SIX PG was enough for the Amarr logi suit in the beginning. I know I said they look at data in my other post, but I didn't say they always did the math right. If they got the math totally fine so we can still have fundamentally the same suits but more/better equipment because it's been incentivized, that's fine, but then again the nerf equipment/logi WP trolls will come out of their caves en masse once more, so the fight will continue... Templar'd for her pleasure Amarr victor!

boba's fetta Operation Clone Shield 112	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:53:00 - [181] - Quote i think that assaults should be nerfed out of the game for ruining the heavy and the scout with there qq. and now focusing on the logis. really really bored of the tears. nerf it cause im ****. the entire point of having a fitting screen is so that you can make your suit fill the role you wish to play.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 62	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:15:00 - [182] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: All equipment slots must be used. Kills earn 30% less WP. Assists and Support WP is increased by 20%. 25% reduction in maximum ammo per clip for Light weapons. Excludes Plasma Cannons, Mass Drivers/Shotguns/etcetera would be rounded up. 1 less grenade, no contact grenades. The same shield delays as a Heavy. Logistics bonus of 3% reduction in equipment fitting cost. - Filling equipment slots is not exactly difficult, and others have pointed out that this doesn't really stop AssLogi's from running the way they try. - Earning more/less WP is a bad idea. It allows spamming of equipment for WP gain (which people already complain about!) and doesn't really make sense: Logistics are frontline combatants, they're some field hospital orderly/munitions dump labourer, they're there in the thick of things but focused on keeping their team supplied. They're not pack mules there for everyone else to do everything else, they're just as important for pushing enemies off of an objective/holding off an attack. Why should a Logi get less points for killing someone hacking/counter-hacking an objective than an Assault? It's just as important regardless of who does it. - Reduction in ammo makes little sense: I have lots of stuff, therefore I can't fit as many bullets in my gun! The lack of sidearm (aside from the more hybrid Amarrian suit) is already what you're suggesting. Logistics are less focused on killing, which is why in a protracted firefight they already have less ammunition because they only have a single weapon. - Less grenades? Meh, I could see that happening. I don't think that really impacts anyone, but it could help. The biggest issue with grenades is the ability to sit on a hive and spam, which is not tied to your maximum, just the rate at which you regain them. - Shield Delay: I don't really see the reasoning behind this. Is it because Logistics are worse at using shields? Is there an issue with Logi shield recharge? - Fitting change I could see. The Role bonus' in general are pretty messed up and could do with some alteration. Borne Velvalor wrote: Forcing everyone to run full equipment reduces players trying to use it exclusively as an Assault suit. Lowering kill WP and raising assist WP puts less of a focus on killing as simply helping others kill, in general. Keyword bolded. Forcing people to do stuff a specific way in an MMO-type/sandbox world is generally a bad idea. Look at EVE: CCP has a general idea of how they think things will be used and then players turn around and use it for some crazy, hare-brained scheme that is cool and completely unintended. Certainly, focus should be placed on specific styles, but it should be done in the way that EVE does/DUST is beginning to look at: promote a specific way through certain buffs when adopting that style. The EVE ship-based bonus' are the perfect example. If we really want to talk about fixing the suits, we should be looking at having that level of change. Suits themselves should have bonus' based upon what CCP intends that suit to do. For example (not necessarily what should be, just an example of how things would work, in my mind): Gallente Logistics: 5% reduction in CPU/PG costs of equipment per level of the Logistics skill 1HP/Second Armour Repair Rate per level of the Logistics skill Amarr Logistics: 5% reduction in CPU/PG costs of equipment per level of the Logistics skill 2% increased efficacy of Armour Plating modules per level of the Logistics skill Gallente Assault: 1% damage increase to hybrid light weapons per level of the Assault skill 1HP/Second Armour Repair Rate per level of the Assault skill Caldari Sentinel: 2% Shield damage resistance per level of the Sentinel skill 5% efficacy of Shield Extender modules per level of the Sentinel skill (Again, these are simply examples.) Making it more like EVE would, in my opinion, be a much better method of balancing suits, and it is an elegant method which I think CCP should be taking advantage of. Borne Velvalor wrote: Raising support WP obviously encourages supporting the team with the equipment. Lower Light weapon ammunition and grenades means Logistics players can take out an enemy or two, but cannot assault endlessly without having to reload and resupply. For instance, an Assault suit with AR would have 60/3 ammo and the Logistics would have 45/2. The shield delays force the Logistics to avoid engaging in combat excessively. 'Assaulting endlessly' is kind of mitigated by the existence of Nanohives, and being able to carry many means that a Logistics would still be able to do so. And as above, a Logistics Merc is still a frontline combatant: they should be able to fight, albeit with slightly reduced efficiency, and shouldn't be bad in combat but should be worse than Assaults: which is the case currently.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:19:00 - [183] - Quote Meh. Logis were beastly before but it seems they became weaker...I barely see Proto Assaults anymore but I still prefer my Proto Assaults over Proto Logi(I'm not Proto yet but I commonly have discussions with logis about the suits) when it comes to FULL ON OFFENSE. I don't like the Gallente Logi right now :/, I heard the Caldari Logi is the top-dawg but even then, it just seems like a bunch of Damage-Stacking(lol). Maybe they are okay where they are. Assaults are the main force of the field while the Logis try to cover the other areas. I'm still waiting on Scouts to get their other suits, and for them to become an even bigger threat than they are now.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 575	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:45:00 - [184] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I get the feeling all the people in here who are complaining about Logis with more HP than Assaults are exactly those who charge a Logi head on expecting the Logi to go down. They feel entitled to be able to kill him because in their perception he is a mere "support" class. The moment they then get their ass handed to them is the moment when they start complaining. Assaults and Logistics should be and currently are on par when it comes to killing people if the player knows what the ** he is doing. If you expect to charge a Logi head on, guns blazing then you deserve to lose your clone. Use tactics, use your strenghs, use your speed and sidearm! Don't expect others to be weaker than you just because** you are in an Assault suit. Good point. I run a Minmatar Logi (21m SP) as my main char, but I also have an alt char. It is an Amarr Assault (9.5m SP). I usually run a Gallente AR on my Logi because it is pretty versatile and with no sidearm I need a general purpose weapon. On the Amarr Assault I go with the Scrambler Rifle and a SMG combo. I have been trying to perfect the one-two punch of taking down enemy players' shields with the SCR and then quickly switching to the SMG to finish off their armor. It is very effective but it also generally means I am rarely caught in a situation where I have to reload either weapon in the middle of an engagement. In fact, I am significantly more effective engaging more than one target as an Assault than I have ever been as a Logi. In the Assault vs 'Logi' Assault debate, I see a lot of players quick to dismiss the sidearm slot as a credible advantage to the slayer role. As someone who plays both Assault and Logi, I am firm in the belief that the advantage is real and should not be discounted. Many times after I have switched from Assault back to Logi, the lack of a sidearm becomes an acute reality on the battlefield.
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:49:00 - [185] - Quote RydogV wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: I get the feeling all the people in here who are complaining about Logis with more HP than Assaults are exactly those who charge a Logi head on expecting the Logi to go down. They feel entitled to be able to kill him because in their perception he is a mere "support" class. The moment they then get their ass handed to them is the moment when they start complaining. Assaults and Logistics should be and currently are on par when it comes to killing people if the player knows what the ** he is doing. If you expect to charge a Logi head on, guns blazing then you deserve to lose your clone. Use tactics, use your strenghs, use your speed and sidearm! Don't expect others to be weaker than you just because** you are in an Assault suit. Good point. I run a Minmatar Logi (21m SP) as my main char, but I also have an alt char. It is an Amarr Assault (9.5m SP). I usually run a Gallente AR on my Logi because it is pretty versatile and with no sidearm I need a general purpose weapon. On the Amarr Assault I go with the Scrambler Rifle and a SMG combo. I have been trying to perfect the one-two punch of taking down enemy players' shields with the SCR and then quickly switching to the SMG to finish off their armor. It is very effective but it also generally means I am rarely caught in a situation where I have to reload either weapon in the middle of an engagement. In fact, I am significantly more effective engaging more than one target as an Assault than I have ever been as a Logi. In the Assault vs 'Logi' Assault debate, I see a lot of players quick to dismiss the sidearm slot as a credible advantage to the slayer role. As someone who plays both Assault and Logi, I am firm in the belief that the advantage is real and should not be discounted. Many times after I have switched from Assault back to Logi, the lack of a sidearm becomes an acute reality on the battlefield. I have both Minmatar logi and assault at proto. That extra speed, sidearm, and shield recharge rate is insanely noticeable when you switch between the two. Hell, with an Ishukone SMG that has 100 rounds in the clip, your light weapon becomes your sidearm. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1167	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:22:00 - [186] - Quote All I'm saying is we everyone other than logis well idk how heavies are with equipment but we need to have 2 again the biggest thing I hear is that's a logis job...well isn't the assaults job to be on the frontline in all the combat yet have less highs and lows than logis? Call me dumb all you want but one or the other is changing...I'm not saying nerf the logi cuz that's not what I want I want 2 equipment slots...if you don't like that then make our highs and lows the same as logis if you still don't lile it then change kur assault bonus cuz it sucks ass
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 115	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:26:00 - [187] - Quote Nothing
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 912	Posted - 2013.11.06 06:44:00 - [188] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: - Filling equipment slots is not exactly difficult, and others have pointed out that this doesn't really stop AssLogi's from running the way they try. If they fit four standard equipment on a proto suit, sure. Maybe make equipment take up a minimum amount of CPU/PG if it's not taking up enough? - Earning more/less WP is a bad idea. It allows spamming of equipment for WP gain (which people already complain about!) and doesn't really make sense: Logistics are frontline combatants, they're some field hospital orderly/munitions dump labourer, they're there in the thick of things but focused on keeping their team supplied. They're not pack mules there for everyone else to do everything else, they're just as important for pushing enemies off of an objective/holding off an attack. Which makes no sense. Why should a Logistics player be as important as an Assault player for killing? Why not just run Logistics 24/7? - Why should a Logi get less points for killing someone hacking/counter-hacking an objective than an Assault? It's just as important regardless of who does it. True enough. Then again, a team spawn is a team spawn, regardless of whether or not there's a defend order on the guy that placed the uplink, right? Yet, they get more WP. I don't think healing someone a couple hundred points is worth a kill, either, but that exists to promote healing. - Reduction in ammo makes little sense: I have lots of stuff, therefore I can't fit as many bullets in my gun! The lack of sidearm (aside from the more hybrid Amarrian suit) is already what you're suggesting. Logistics are less focused on killing, which is why in a protracted firefight they already have less ammunition because they only have a single weapon. As an Amarr Logistics, I often forget this. However, the importance of the sidearm lies a lot in what weapon you use. If you run a Laser, yeah, it's going to sting. An Assault Rifle? Not a lot. Less ammo per clip means more reloading, which lowers overall DPS while still leaving burst potential to take out a few guys at a time. - Less grenades? Meh, I could see that happening. I don't think that really impacts anyone, but it could help. The biggest issue with grenades is the ability to sit on a hive and spam, which is not tied to your maximum, just the rate at which you regain them. Grenade resupply rate is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed, but you're right. - Shield Delay: I don't really see the reasoning behind this. Is it because Logistics are worse at using shields? Is there an issue with Logi shield recharge? No, my point was that it would make them less able to fight enemy after enemy after enemy. However, this doesn't really affect armor tankers and thus is a pretty poor idea, I admit. - Fitting change I could see. The Role bonus' in general are pretty messed up and could do with some alteration. The role bonuses are the easiest and first thing to fix. They suck at the moment. Borne Velvalor wrote: Forcing - Keyword bolded. Forcing people to do stuff a specific way in an MMO-type/sandbox world is generally a bad idea. Look at EVE: CCP has a general idea of how they think things will be used and then players turn around and use it for some crazy, hare-brained scheme that is cool and completely unintended. Using a Logistics suit with one equipment slot exactly like an Assault suit is not a new, crazy way to use it. It just makes Assault suits more redundant. - Certainly, focus should be placed on specific styles, but it should be done in the way that EVE does/DUST is beginning to look at: promote a specific way through certain buffs when adopting that style. The EVE ship-based bonus' are the perfect example. If we really want to talk about fixing the suits, we should be looking at having that level of change. Suits themselves should have bonus' based upon what CCP intends that suit to do. For example (not necessarily what should be, just an example of how things would work, in my mind): -snipped to fit under character limit- (Again, these are simply examples.) Making it more like EVE would, in my opinion, be a much better method of balancing suits, and it is an elegant method which I think CCP should be taking advantage of. Good ideas. However, whether you buff some suits bonuses or nerf others', some suits will be worse at certain things than others. Just by having difference suits you "limit" players. - 'Assaulting endlessly' is kind of mitigated by the existence of Nanohives, and being able to carry many means that a Logistics would still be able to do so. And as above, a Logistics Merc is still a frontline combatant: they should be able to fight, albeit with slightly reduced efficiency, and shouldn't be bad in combat but should be worse than Assaults: which is the case currently. They are better in some ways, worse in others, dependent on race. Amarr Logistics without a Laser or Scrambler is a bit slower, in exchange for free armor repair and equipment slots. I don't know about you, but carrying a Compact Nanohive, Flux Scanner and Remote Explosives with 5 HP/S free armor repair negates that little bit of speed for me. A plate replaces the health. If you didn't like the speed, a Catalyzer can replace that instead. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 64	Posted - 2013.11.06 06:56:00 - [189] - Quote remove high slots form gallente/amarr to prevent weapon mod stacking. and sligtly reduced cpu and pwr grid but get a 10% reduction to equipment per level and 5% bonus to rep tool ammount per level. remove lows from caldari and minmattar to prevent insane EHP where you empty an AR clip into them and they dont die. leave thier pwr grid/cpu untouched so they can fit shield extenders and have enopugh left for thier equipment. again a 10% fitting reduction and 5% bonus to repair ammount per level.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 186	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:11:00 - [190] - Quote Cosgar wrote: RydogV wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: I get the feeling all the people in here who are complaining about Logis with more HP than Assaults are exactly those who charge a Logi head on expecting the Logi to go down. They feel entitled to be able to kill him because in their perception he is a mere "support" class. The moment they then get their ass handed to them is the moment when they start complaining. Assaults and Logistics should be and currently are on par when it comes to killing people if the player knows what the ** he is doing. If you expect to charge a Logi head on, guns blazing then you deserve to lose your clone. Use tactics, use your strenghs, use your speed and sidearm! Don't expect others to be weaker than you just because** you are in an Assault suit. Good point. I run a Minmatar Logi (21m SP) as my main char, but I also have an alt char. It is an Amarr Assault (9.5m SP). I usually run a Gallente AR on my Logi because it is pretty versatile and with no sidearm I need a general purpose weapon. On the Amarr Assault I go with the Scrambler Rifle and a SMG combo. I have been trying to perfect the one-two punch of taking down enemy players' shields with the SCR and then quickly switching to the SMG to finish off their armor. It is very effective but it also generally means I am rarely caught in a situation where I have to reload either weapon in the middle of an engagement. In fact, I am significantly more effective engaging more than one target as an Assault than I have ever been as a Logi. In the Assault vs 'Logi' Assault debate, I see a lot of players quick to dismiss the sidearm slot as a credible advantage to the slayer role. As someone who plays both Assault and Logi, I am firm in the belief that the advantage is real and should not be discounted. Many times after I have switched from Assault back to Logi, the lack of a sidearm becomes an acute reality on the battlefield. I have both Minmatar logi and assault at proto. That extra speed, sidearm, and shield recharge rate is insanely noticeable when you switch between the two. Hell, with an Ishukone SMG that has 100 rounds in the clip, your light weapon becomes your sidearm. I'm trying to decide whether to spec into Min logi or assault. Which of the two would you recommend? I agree that the speed and sidearm makes a big difference, on the other hand I know I will struggle with fitting an assault as I plan to run the A-45 scanner 24-7 (I have dropsuit electronics 5, engineering 3). The role I have in mind is really between assault and logi, but I want more speed than the hybrid amarr logi provides.

Cpt Merdock The Exemplars Top Men. 96	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:41:00 - [191] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Cpt Merdock wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! Amen to this...I as a fellow Assault Rifle user would honestly think the game would be more fun right now if we just took Assault Rifles out lol. This is Dust514 not battlefield. We are suppose to be in freaking space. You dont see assault rifles in Halo do you? Uhhh. As much as I agree with you, there are Assault Rifles in Halo. in my defence I played halo 3 for all of 2 hours on split screen. I was just trying to make a point. :)
XANDER KAG Red Star. EoN. 468	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:46:00 - [192] - Quote Why couldn't you just give them the same (maybe slightly higher), pg/cpu as assaults, the same slots, but then make equipment costs negligible. Like with the Gallente logi. Who says you can't kill in style? Fear the tribes.
Kilrex n'Drazi NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.10 15:55:00 - [193] - Quote Why not have equipment mounted using something akin to rig calibration in Eve? Easily prevents people from using logis as frontline suits. Move the equipment from using CPU/grid to "suit calibration". Add a new skill to increase the available "suit calibration". --- I would also like to see a stacking penalty for similar equipment (e.g. uplinks) on one suit. One of the biggest causes of lag seems to be when someone is dropping 8 spawn uplinks into the same area of a map. Or nanohives.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1551	Posted - 2013.11.10 16:02:00 - [194] - Quote No nerf, buff assaults first Ps. Your whole sidearm only thing screws over my logi ak0 "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 436	Posted - 2013.11.10 16:03:00 - [195] - Quote I'll play along: I want more stamina so I can support my whole team spread across an area and dodge out of a stream of bullets without getting stuck on a small elevation that a 6-month-old baby could crawl over. I want an active suit-mod that heals me and teammates that are close enough to me while greatly reducing my damage-output. I want other cool mods like this that are support related. I want people to be around a logi, because if they are not they'll drop like flies. Teamwork motherfuckers! ... Oooh wait we were talking nerfs, not game redesign that could make this game better.
CharCharOdell 1501	Posted - 2013.11.10 17:10:00 - [196] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Only Sidearm, I already use an SMG and flux grenades. AKA my pattented "Flux and spray" method. If you are a real Logi, You won't find yourself in open combat anyways. only if the assaults dont get equipment slots. Then you'll NEED a logi....oh, but wait, there won't be any. Good luck fighitng over that supply depot which ill blow up with my tank to avenge my logi bros. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 299	Posted - 2013.11.10 17:26:00 - [197] - Quote I want Logi's to be Logi's... Right now the bonuses across all the suit's don't contribute to a team effort, more of a solo playstyle. Logi's - Have suit bonus's based more around tanking, Then given an abundance of slot's and fitting ability... they will naturally be the suit which you could do anything with. So it has to specialized through it's bonuses. - They need reduced CPU and PG to mainly facilitate only fitting tank and weapon modules. - The bonuses need to be around Equipment fitting requirements... Making them almost costless to fit Logi based equipment onto the suit... Kinda like EVE, -99% fitting requirements even... -They also need a bonus to Efficacy of equipment.... making them the true choice to run uplinks/nanohives/repairs


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