DUST Search - If the logistics suit were to get a nerf, what would you prefer it be?

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

I'm not going to bother quoting your wall of text, seeing as how it takes up 50% of a page.

I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot everything you were arguing or any good points you might have made when I read this part:

Cosgar wrote:

Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking.

lolwut? I am correct in assuming that this was directed towards me? How am I dragging down other game mechanics because I feel that my mechanics are lacking? I did not at any point mention heavies, assaults, or scouts. I only mentioned logistics, which I believe you can guess from my name, are 99% of what I do. So they are not OTHER mechanics, they are MY mechanics.

By definition, I am requesting that my mechanics be nerfed because mine are severely over the mark. They are too powerful. The opposite of lacking. I regularly have the highest KD/R on my team whilst also having the highest WPs. That lack of a sidearm ain't doin' **** to my lethal capabilities.

Let me put it this way, have you read my signature? I didn't just put it there because I couldn't think of anything witty or funny to put in its place, I put that phrase as my signature because when I started this game, I was lucky to see a single other logistics player in the game. But now, at least 50% of every game I play is infested with logistics players.

Do you think the massive influx of logi's was brought on by a sudden bout of kindness? Yes, it is partly because of improved mechanics, like actually being able to revive people with nanite injectors, but it was mostly brought on by the power that the logi now possesses.

I think the logi as we all used to think of it progressed into what it currently is because of poor logi mechanics.

1) The nanite injector being destroyed upon the release of Uprising
2) Not being able to see low armor on teammates thus having a rep tool with nobody to rep

Buffing the assault and heavy suits is a better option because it doesn't **** off the massive amount of logis in Dust.

Why **** off the majority of your player base?

I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"


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Cosgar ParagonX 7126	Posted - 2013.11.04 02:57:00 - [1] - Quote Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7133	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:21:00 - [2] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: What bothers me about the logi suit is that it has more slots and equipment than any other suit, along with CPU and PG to fit all those slots, with its only drawback being a sidearm. The philosophy of the logi suit needs to be: (1) More customizable than all other suits--in which case its unfitted attributes should be substantially weaker than the basic and assault suits to account for more module slots. (2) More equipment-focused than other suits--in which case they should have no more module slots than the equivalent level assault suit. In either case, they're not really overpowered, so "nerf" isn't appropriate. More like "adjusting" or "re-thinking." It was the CaLogi that was overpowered. When this whole logi gate thing started, it was nothing but CaLogis with TAC ARs. When CCP nerfed the logi suits, it was the CaLogi that took the brunt of it. People are just carrying this torch against logistics just to do it now. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7136	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:35:00 - [3] - Quote If you think this community will stop at one nerf, you're all fools! I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7139	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:06:00 - [4] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) They use CaLogis because that suit was super OP in early uprising. The slot layout is still questionable at best (should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) but was re-balanced while all logis took a recharge delay nerf. The logisault issue has been fixed, but misinformed players butthurt over dying to a yellow suit carry a torch. They hate us for getting more WP, they hate us for being able to carry more equipment, they hate us for getting kills when they think yellow = easy kill. Stop looking for free kills in an FPS with these per-concieved notions that a logistics class should be tethered to a heavy or a squad's personal pack mule. There's no Geneva Convention in New Eden. Grow a pair and stop crying. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7141	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:17:00 - [5] - Quote Roofer Madness wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more . Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) lol at "intended" role. Who decides that? You? Whatever man..... it's not a ***** medic. It's a logistics role. That can be a lot of things.... Intended role is what gave heavies a paintball gun. Intended role is what made scouts into paper thin suits- no faster than medium frames. Intended role is what took away marauder vehicles in exchange for militia HAV with an extra slot and no PG to equip anything. Intended role is what makes assault with an AR king and assaults are too dense to realize it. What's the point of being able to skill into anything and everything to theory craft different fittings when you're only limited to an intended role? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7142	Posted - 2013.11.04 04:30:00 - [6] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: AOD oOPimpMacDaddyOo wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Roofer Madness wrote: Cosgar wrote: Neither, I'm tired of seeing this game nerfed to the standards of assaults with rifles. Take your stand fellow logibros! Don't give these casual bastards an inch! I'm with Cosgar. i don't understand why you fools think limiting the logi role is some how going to make the other roles more appealing. Fix the broken **. Don't break more **. Because 80% Of people that use logi's use them as an assault. Not the intended role. I have a proto logi myself & I think limiting the WP for kills @ more for support would be better. And I like the idea of limitation to a side arm.... Its makes sense because you ARE support, not an ASSAULT. Okay Logi babies? grow up and play your role. Im always constantly playing with/against logis from high standing corps and ive noticed that they all use caldari logis as assaults and not LOGIS..... ( Lol MHPD, Lol EoN, Lol AE, Lol Sver, Lol Nyan ) Yea I see alot of proto cldari logis that do not play there role. its like giving 2000HP to one guy and 2000DMG to one guy and putting the two together this is a HUGE exaggeration... the most a cal logi can get is 1200 ehp... to do this they sacrifice all equipment and dmg mods. oh and a proto weapon.... And you'll get smoked by an assault with any real FPS skill. You might win the odd 1v1, but once you have to reload your one weapon, you're screwed because you'll just be a gimped assault without a sidearm. People like to neglect that assaults have sidearms, but ask any laser user how important one is. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7165	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:12:00 - [7] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: lDocHollidayl wrote: No nerf, forcing suits into a role is anti MMO. One should be able to tank what they want and dps what they want and logi what they want...if though a heavy would make a bad logi let em try. Forcing suits into a role is anti mmo? Have you ever played an MMO? ANY MMO.... ? Just one.. please say you've at least played one. Heck, it doesn't matter which one you've played, they're all the same, and they all have SPECIFIC ROLES and fail at everything else. If that's the case, Logistics = Red Mage, the most versatile class in most MMOs, and regarded as the jack of all trades, master of none. ( Just don't ask me to get on my knees and cast refresh every 20 seconds) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7165	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:21:00 - [8] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Either force them to fill equipment slots, or massively reduce pg/CPU/slots and give a hard role bonus of -x%to pg/CPU fitting costs of equipment. No more gallente logis running around with a duvolle, 3 complex dmg mods and ~900hp Locus grenades can pretty much **** a GaLogi's day up. After 1.7 when we get the combat and rail rifle, it'll be that much easier. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7185	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:03:00 - [9] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Limit the stacking of modules. More modules should mean more versatility, not more health, more damage potential, or whatever. i.e. you can only fit one of each type of module, or modules have a larger stacking penalty than they do now. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the option to stack modules, but if you do there should be a much larger downside if you use more than 1-2 (for instance, armor plates slowing you down a lot more, or shields having a longer delay/recharge) Implement that for all classes too. Limiting one suit for previous misuse by other players only punishes the ones that don't. Not that anyone is really misusing suits now since Dust was supposed to be about having a sandbox experience and playing the way you want, heavy snipers, shotgun assaults and all that. When did everything go wrong? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7238	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:06:00 - [10] - Quote The witch hunt continues... you people make me sick. Worst of all are the logibros trying to negotiate. They won't stop at one nerf, they never do. They won't be satisfied until we're as useless and paper thin as scouts. Assaults need some attention? Nerf logis! Such a great idea! By that logic, scouts should be complaining that the larger frames need a nerf. This isn't about killer bees anymore- the CaLogis has been neutered. This is butthurt assaults that want their suit to do it all and nothing else. Don't fool yourselves, they won't rest until we're as useless as Chromosome again, mark my words. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 7261	Posted - 2013.11.05 01:53:00 - [11] - Quote Let me reiterate my point from the previous 49587340957 logi gate topics: The original argument was that a logistics suit could leave their slots empty and get an extra tank with their additional CPU/PG. Though true, this only gimps the suit down to an extra tanky, slow, expensive assault suit that lacks a sidearm while ignoring the advantages equipment gives logistics suits. If you look back in earlier uprising topics and even pre-uprising, players warned CCP about the Caldari logistics because it was overpowering compared to other suits. That suit had ungodly amounts of CPU/PG, a racial bonus to shield extenders which added to shield > armor imbalance and a ridiculous module slot layout. (I still think it should be 5H/3L/4E, opposite of GaLogi) The suit was nerfed because all you would see were the top corps using CaLogi and TAC ARs. (which was stupid OP at the time too) The Amarr suit got a much needed buff to put it in line of its logi/assault hybrid design, and the other suits took a (arguably unnecessary) nerf to their shield recharge delay. All we have is lingering butthurt from either misinformed players, players that don't understand the concept of incomparable game mechanics, tryhards that are upset over the tradeoffs between logistics and assault, or those just want yellow to = easy kill. Neither suit is better than the other, it just comes down to style of play. Assaults are faster, can use sidearms, have a (useless on some suits) shield recharge bonus, and better base stats. Logistics have the worst base stats out of all the medium frames, have base HP almost as low as scouts and no sidearm. (except for the Amarr, but doesn't have an offensive bonus compared to the assault) All this is traded for more equipment and module slots than assaults, which could be a weakness in itself since it makes the suit more equipment reliable and outright more expensive. I agree that some of the assaults bonuses are unattractive, but that's an assault problem, not a logistics problem. Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. I don't see scouts saying that other suits need to be nerfed because their suits are lacking, I don't see pilots complaining about other roles, and I sure as hell don't see heavies complaining either. If a commando requested for other suits to be nerfed, he'd probably be laughed off the forums. If a plasma cannoneer wanted every other weapon nerfed because their weapon was under performing, same result. There's been countless topics- even by you, Logi Bro, requesting for assaults to be buffed, but the logi witch hunt continues. What makes it worse is that we even have dedicated logibros trying to negotiate terms. This won't just end with one nerf, the witch hunt will continue and it will continue. If we get nerfed to sidearms, you'll start seeing people crying about sidearms being OP, (surprised the SMG has avoided the nerf bat this long, but that's a topic within itself) they'll want to reduce points for logis getting the occasional kill, when they're trying to protect their squad, they won't rest until our walking animation is us crawling backwards with our lubed yellow, target painted asses are pointed up in the air for the assaults to take what's theirs. All this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. We need more diversity on the battlefield, not less. This game needs to be more team based, every class should have its usefulness on the field, whether it's a vehicle giving their team a needed advantage, a flanking scout that can run distraction, heavies that can push back or even annihilate anyone dumb enough to go toe-to-toe with them- with a gun that ing works!!! Stop the nerfing, stop listening to people upset over losing the occasional 1 v 1 duel in a team based game, STOP KILLING THIS GAME!!! I ask you nicely, not just as a Minmatar, not just as a Logibro, but a fellow player. Stop the madness. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7261	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:21:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: ... That wasn't directed at you, not sure where you got that impression from. You were one of the few people to advocate buffing assaults along with me, I even linked your topic in multiple threads back then. I don't have anything against you. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7264	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:28:00 - [13] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I'm not going to bother quoting your wall of text, seeing as how it takes up 50% of a page. I'm not going to lie, I completely forgot everything you were arguing or any good points you might have made when I read this part: Cosgar wrote: Stop trying to drag down other game mechanics because you feel yours is lacking. lolwut? I am correct in assuming that this was directed towards me? How am I dragging down other game mechanics because I feel that my mechanics are lacking? I did not at any point mention heavies, assaults, or scouts. I only mentioned logistics, which I believe you can guess from my name, are 99% of what I do. So they are not OTHER mechanics, they are MY mechanics. By definition, I am requesting that my mechanics be nerfed because mine are severely over the mark. They are too powerful. The opposite of lacking. I regularly have the highest KD/R on my team whilst also having the highest WPs. That lack of a sidearm ain't doin' ** to my lethal capabilities. Let me put it this way, have you read my signature? I didn't just put it there because I couldn't think of anything witty or funny to put in its place, I put that phrase as my signature because when I started this game, I was lucky to see a single other logistics player in the game. But now, at least 50% of every game I play is infested with logistics players. Do you think the massive influx of logi's was brought on by a sudden bout of kindness? Yes, it is partly because of improved mechanics, like actually being able to revive people with nanite injectors, but it was mostly brought on by the power that the logi now possesses. I think the logi as we all used to think of it progressed into what it currently is because of poor logi mechanics. 1) The nanite injector being destroyed upon the release of Uprising 2) Not being able to see low armor on teammates thus having a rep tool with nobody to rep Buffing the assault and heavy suits is a better option because it doesn't off the massive amount of logis in Dust. Why ** off the majority of your player base? I really doubt that logis are the majority of our player base. A significant number maybe, but not the majority. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7266	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:49:00 - [14] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit If medium frame suits weren't the only viable thing in this game, we wouldn't be having this argument. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7268	Posted - 2013.11.05 03:06:00 - [15] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I wouldn't doubt if it's 2:1 to the next closest suit If medium frame suits weren't the only viable thing in this game, we wouldn't be having this argument. I agree but it is what it is. CCP has done a LOT of nerfing. I'd rather see a buff to the assault suit. The heavy suit may be just fine after the upcoming buff. I think the scout suit still needs more. Ships in Eve get damage bonuses all the time, why not give the assault suit damage bonuses? It solves the issue without pissing people off. Assaults need a buff, HMG needs a huge buff instead of the suit, and scouts need a Lifetime Movie dedicated to how bad they got ****ed. I would agree with a damage bonus to assaults, but that would further screw heavies and scouts. But if TTK wasn't so insanely short, it could work. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:49:00 - [16] - Quote RydogV wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: I get the feeling all the people in here who are complaining about Logis with more HP than Assaults are exactly those who charge a Logi head on expecting the Logi to go down. They feel entitled to be able to kill him because in their perception he is a mere "support" class. The moment they then get their ass handed to them is the moment when they start complaining. Assaults and Logistics should be and currently are on par when it comes to killing people if the player knows what the ** he is doing. If you expect to charge a Logi head on, guns blazing then you deserve to lose your clone. Use tactics, use your strenghs, use your speed and sidearm! Don't expect others to be weaker than you just because** you are in an Assault suit. Good point. I run a Minmatar Logi (21m SP) as my main char, but I also have an alt char. It is an Amarr Assault (9.5m SP). I usually run a Gallente AR on my Logi because it is pretty versatile and with no sidearm I need a general purpose weapon. On the Amarr Assault I go with the Scrambler Rifle and a SMG combo. I have been trying to perfect the one-two punch of taking down enemy players' shields with the SCR and then quickly switching to the SMG to finish off their armor. It is very effective but it also generally means I am rarely caught in a situation where I have to reload either weapon in the middle of an engagement. In fact, I am significantly more effective engaging more than one target as an Assault than I have ever been as a Logi. In the Assault vs 'Logi' Assault debate, I see a lot of players quick to dismiss the sidearm slot as a credible advantage to the slayer role. As someone who plays both Assault and Logi, I am firm in the belief that the advantage is real and should not be discounted. Many times after I have switched from Assault back to Logi, the lack of a sidearm becomes an acute reality on the battlefield. I have both Minmatar logi and assault at proto. That extra speed, sidearm, and shield recharge rate is insanely noticeable when you switch between the two. Hell, with an Ishukone SMG that has 100 rounds in the clip, your light weapon becomes your sidearm. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"