Why are strafing and bunny hooping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

Why are strafing and bunny hooping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

At least you recognized that ADHD strafing and bunny hopping are in the same category. I don't like them because they are more twitched than tactical, and most shooters I play do not have those elements in there, in fact pc shooters don't have those elements in there because the kbm nullifies them, you only see them with ds3s because of the lag/control scheme.

Strafing bunnyhopping arent bad, just a little slower, texas 2 stepping is bad but is now gone, aim assist is only slightly to strong!!
Its the actual weaponry thats the problem!

speed tanking was a thing, and it's what scouts were designed around.

now it's not, scout suit may as well be removed, sp refunded so they can spec into a proper caldari assault suit and spec into ar's like everyone else.

I suppose they could do option two and be heavy with hmg/forge gun.

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........

Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this.

The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them.

At least you recognized that ADHD strafing and bunny hopping are in the same category. I don't like them because they are more twitched than tactical, and most shooters I play do not have those elements in there, in fact pc shooters don't have those elements in there because the kbm nullifies them, you only see them with ds3s because of the lag/control scheme.

Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........

Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this.

The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them.

Agreed, the Hit Detection was the only thing that needed fixed...

How are the TTKs in you opinion?

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

IRL is the worst place to draw inspiration for a space shooter from the future from.

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

IRL is the worst place to draw inspiration for a space shooter from the future from.

I run scout and while initially I was hurting from the removal of twitched strafing, my kdr has actually improved dramatically due to the use of the active scanner and the scram pistol.

The idea that scouts can't compete is incorrect, now getting someone's back pretty near guarantees the kill, scouts with active scanners are able to dodge most scans and scan others to get their back.

The sheer difference in my gameplay is being able to capture a point from 3 heavies and 4 assaults with minor team support. Scan them all and run around till you get their back = dead merc.

Rather than people complain about aim assist or bunny hop to compensate I'd like to see this, on a long enough timeline, translate to better real world modes of tactical movement. I.e. move in and out of cover and strafe to the side as you move into the opponent. Also, move forward more cautiously from cover to cover.

Bunny Hoppers should be shot in the head on their third in-game consecutive leap by

this guy.

What dont you people understand....THIS IS NOT A TACTICAL SHOOTER...if you want a tactical shooter you have to play a different game. THis game was NEVER meant to be a tactical shooter nor will CCP EVER MAKE IT INTO a tactical shooter. Their main goal was to make a shooter that was free to play, connected to the Eve universe, and was Haloesque to draw the type of gamers who enjoy Halo. Halo is NOT a tactical shooter why would you assume this game would be? I mean just the fact that you can survive 1 shot pretty much makes this not a tactical shooter.

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

Are you serioulsy bringing in RL examples to a fictional game set 15 million years in the future? Tell me your not because it sounds like you are and if you are then that just shows how much of an idiot you are.

If you want a realistic military shooter go play Arma and crawl your way to the objective for 2 hours. Have fun. This is not a realistic based military shooter. It was meant to be a tracking shooter that was Haloesque in many ways yet CCP completely failed and ended up making a bad lobby shooter. You say its a laughably bad tactic....those who consider it a bad tactic are those who could not do it or deal with it themselves.

BTW you obviously have not seen deathmatch on Halflife 1 if you consider this game to be strafy and bunnyhoppy......

You know what, fine you're right, I'll go half way on this with you. If I want a "truly" tactical shooter I'll go crawl for 2 hours in Arma. But the OP asked why people hate bunny hopping / strafing, not if it should exist in DUST. I hate it for the reasons I stated. Namely that it is ridiculously unrealistic, breaks physics, and just looks plain stupid.

If you need your stupid tactic to win then go ahead, I'll die more to you and be "less effective" than I could be. It's still stupid and you should feel stupid for doing it, but I will agree that (in these games) it is a tactic that works. Do I wish it was removed from DUST, oh god yes, but that's another topic for another day.

Stop with misinterpretations. Talk about stupidity.

It is a ground combat game. Ground combat is ground combat whether featured in a game, a sci-fi world or RL. It deserves some amount of plausibility to the context of the theme.

If you don't think that should apply then go play Mario games. They are far enough away from the genre so as not to be expected to have anything to do with reality.

Why not have cars flying with wings of we're not expecting any amount of thematic realism of movement.

Then TBH you need to find a different game because CCP will never make this into a tactical game. Its not supposed to be. ITs original design was to be similar to MAG and Halo. Which I am assuming are both games you hate because they are strafing/tracking shooters.

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

What dont you people understand....THIS IS NOT A TACTICAL SHOOTER...if you want a tactical shooter you have to play a different game. THis game was NEVER meant to be a tactical shooter nor will CCP EVER MAKE IT INTO a tactical shooter. Their main goal was to make a shooter that was free to play, connected to the Eve universe, and was Haloesque to draw the type of gamers who enjoy Halo. Halo is NOT a tactical shooter why would you assume this game would be? I mean just the fact that you can survive 1 shot pretty much makes this not a tactical shooter.

That's different issues though. When under open fire and trying to evade the shots, you'll probably do some mad jumps to make yourself hard to hit.

Now you cannot even do this defensively anymore. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but your analogy is a bit lacking. Accuracy going down the drain while dodging madly could have been simulated.

A good thing about this is that low-accuracy weapons like the mass driver are much less of an advantage now. Making yourself hard to hit while spamming explosives right in front of your feet really did feel a bit stupid.

Right now it feels a bit sluggish to me with the 90% strafe, but I also have a feeling that I'll get used to it quickly.

For the record, I don't hate Halo (and I've never played MAG, unfortunately). But I don't consider Halo to be realistically themed. I do consider DUST to be realistically themed. Why, because it's a CCP game. They try to make everything in the game have a realistic reason; down to the third person view of your ship in EVE (camera drones). So I except DUST to be more realistic than Halo (which is far from realistic), hence my frustration.

Bunny hopping is bad bc it gets you killed, jumping targets are easy to hit bc you can easily predict their movement, on the other hand strafeing is bad because it makes me hard to kill and most of these eve nerds have never had to move that way and they suck at it, bc its harder to hit that unpredictable movement, always strafe, always move, and never in a pattern, the reason they want strafe speed turned down the same reason they want aim assist turned up because they can't shoot. Its the same reason eve players have been ruining this game via their position on the cpm from day 1, you mercs gt to realize that much of the influence to ccp comes from people that suck at shooting. These are spread sheet nerds that have been sitting in virtual ships for 10 years and didn't come up through the ranks of doom, quake, halo, bf, cod, and the rest they just leached over here from eve bc they were big eve players, and like the useless space parasites they are they are sucking the skill out of shooting, by saying things like they move to fast side to side I can't hit them, and give us aim assist, blah blah blah, we have got to get them out of here.

You shouldnt get rid of aim assist, maybe tweak it a little, but its part of shooting mechanics deal with it!!

However strafing still need to be viable, as a tactic, but what a lot of people who are over complaining about aim assist is some thing I like to call the texan 2 step, moving left and right in 20cm area meant you could dodge a large majority of rounds, but it doesnt work anymore and there just bitter!

Skill is more than having quick fingers, and that is what this current state of affairs are getting some people to think about!!

No youre telling me the texan 2 step took skill? Really? Shakimg the left stick was all it took!!



We are mad bc the computer aims for you?? Giving you a kill your not good enough to get? Yes......

halo1pc

Heres a link of a video of me back in the day that illustrates strafeing very well, pay close attention to how you had to lead your target as you could not hit square on when a target moved. Ps no aim assist in this game...... So aim assist is not part of ALL shooters.

The computer doesnt aim for you or for me, texan 2 steping only worked because hit detection didnt work, if the guy isnt good enough to get the kill aim assist isnt gonna get the kill for him!

However the assult rifle ttk is now so low, you can just keep going and it'll kill them before your mag is out!! Thats were the problem is!!

Source? Or are you just so awesome that you can speak for CCP without being CCP semperfi?

I agree, if your in the open and come under fire you're not going to stand there and fire back, you're going to jump or run sideways and find cover. But while jumping or running your aim will be s***.

And I am fine with that. It makes sense. I can still run and shoot, but my chance of hitting anything is down to spray and pray. What I don't like is the guy who jumps up and down, left and right, like a jack russel f***ing terrier while hitting me in the head with pinpoint accuracy the whole time. That is stupid.

Let me restate, so that Semperfi doesn't get his panties in a twist again, I am answering the OP's question of "why do people hate bunny hopping / left and right strafing" not if I think DUST should remove them (I wish, but that's a different discussion). I hate it because it's stupid, unrealistic, and I wish I could bombard it from orbit.

I u/s thats your opinion regarding what you wish CCP to do. But stating you dislike it because its "unrealistic".........if you have to start arguing "realism" in a video game you have already lost the argument unless its a game that is meant to be simulator....which dust is not.

Just because a game is not a simulator doesn't mean it can't have some semblance of realism.

I agree with some of the points you've made in this thread semperfi (surprisingly) related to how the aim assist makes it difficult to not hit your target and takes minimal effort. However the above point I find to be very flawed.

Ah but it does have some semblance of realism in other aspects...just not this one. Like I said I understand personal opinion and thats fine that he can choose not to like this ability. However at the same this game was simply never made to be a tactical shooter in that there is cover to use and moving tactics need to be employed. This game was meant to be more of a in your face high TTK tracking shooter with alot of loadout possibilities based on that players preference.

Regarding other things mentioned I am ok with getting lower accuracy when strafing and other things like that. But honestly CCP has proven that they really dont have a vision anymore for this game....which is also why I believe they are going to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Its the next step with what they have done so far.

At least you recognized that ADHD strafing and bunny hopping are in the same category. I don't like them because they are more twitched than tactical, and most shooters I play do not have those elements in there, in fact pc shooters don't have those elements in there because the kbm nullifies them, you only see them with ds3s because of the lag/control scheme.

I like the whole high TTK thing as well as the tracking, but why can that not incorporate some tactical elements?

nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets.

There are plenty of tactical aspects to the game, but not being able out of cover for less than two seconds, wasn't and should be one of them!!

Yea um if you want you can go back through the forums during closed beta. I have no reason to do this and I could care less if you believe me or not. The fact that Dust has special MAG tribute suits doesnt mean anything of course......

You're right! No tank has ever been designed to survive multiple hits from enemy weapons!

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

because bunny hopping in combat is silly and in RL anyone bunny hopping instead of using cover is probably gonna get one in the head.

If you want to try to justify that bunny hopping is a futuristic viable tactic I will have you say you're absolutely wrong.

Behold the IRL Aimbot

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/product-hero-660x371.jpg

Comes with GPS, ballistics programming, windage, range finder, and aim correction.

I don't see any technological advantages for weaving through a hail of bullets or helping out bunny hopping.

As I said in another thread, nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets.

IWS your an idiot go away from the adults in this conversation. Noone is arguing that in the future soldiers will be bunny hopping through a battlefield. If anything those who are arguing for strafe/bunnyhopping are stating the RL does not play a role in this game. I play games to have fun and do things I cant do in RL. This game was never meant to be realistic (if it was then CCP missed their goal for this game even worse than I initially thought). What used to be fun about this game was the higher TTK with high strafe speeds forcing skilled gungame battles....until CCP ruined what little gungame they did have (uprising). Now gungame consists of letting the AA keep your aim on target for kills.

I like the whole high TTK thing as well as the tracking, but why can that not incorporate some tactical elements?

halo1pc

Heres a link of a video of me back in the day that illustrates strafeing very well, pay close attention to how you had to lead your target as you could not hit square on when a target moved. Ps no aim assist in this game...... So aim assist is not part of ALL shooters.

erm all that shows is that you have to lead your targets, just means the pistol in halo wasn't hit scan. That or you are just adjusting for lag compensation, not shooting ahead because you are strafing.

Those were only done to appease us since we were the largest portion of the community outside of Eve purists. I was there for the closed beta and anyone that wasn't in your little elitist circlejerk was shouted down and ridiculed, now here we are in commercial release and ideas that were brought up then keep getting brought up (and in some cases implemented).

You mad that you and your little elitist friends are losing to the flood of "worst players ever"? Is that why you stick around and do what you can to ruin things?

because bunny hopping in combat is silly and in RL anyone bunny hopping instead of using cover is probably gonna get one in the head.

Hi

http://www.halopedia.org/Aim-Assist

BTW these numbers are not official they're reversed engineered.

IWS your an idiot go away from the adults in this conversation. Noone is arguing that in the future soldiers will be bunny hopping through a battlefield. If anything those who are arguing for strafe/bunnyhopping are stating the RL does not play a role in this game. I play games to have fun and do things I cant do in RL. This game was never meant to be realistic (if it was then CCP missed their goal for this game even worse than I initially thought). What used to be fun about this game was the higher TTK with high strafe speeds forcing skilled gungame battles....until CCP ruined what little gungame they did have (uprising). Now gungame consists of letting the AA keep your aim on target for kills.

Really the real life argument again? In a video game? ROFL this just cracks me up. In RL we also cant be shot multiple times and survive so I suggest that CCP make is so that 1-2 shots kill. Then this would have more realism!!

I also find it funny how mention this is a means of not doing things in real life.
After some quick reflection, where I used to work in the military staffing and bunny hopping can save your life there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c0lfwxRpj0

Had one snap on me went through 12 birds, 1 tactor and 2 people back in 2007 on the Kitty Hawk. striketron 102 lost their bird, one officer got fired.

We are not trying to be make this a WWII military shooter. We are trying to be realistic in both basics and according to the lore. You cannot discredit something like that because it doesn't fit the same exact mold as something else.

Ouch that is pretty serious. I know those cables are huge but man the amount of power they must have if 1 cable caused that much dmg. Crazy....

Actually in truth if you want to argue...."according to lore" there should be no bunny hopping/strafing......

What do you think would happen to a person psychologically if they suddenly become immortal and are constantly fighting all of the time. You think they would honestly care very much for their own "lives". No battlefields would be choked full of people just throwing their "bodies" at one another and trying to take out as many as possible before dying and reanimating to start again.

Tactics are done simply because people are fragile and die easily so in order to be the most effective and lose the least number of lives on your end tactics are needed because 1-2 shots will do you in. But if there was a way to be immortal then battle would no longer employ the same tactics....there would be more rushes and different thoughts on what to do to inflict the highest number of casualties on the other side so that they run out of backup clones faster thus giving you free reign over that territory.

This is getting fun to watch! So IWS what's your opinion on the shorter TTKs?

Clones cost money and you only have a certain number. That's why you can't just kill them willy-nilly.

Yes because Dust has been such a resounding success since they started listening more to the flood of "worst players ever" instead of listening to the competitive gamers who actually know a thing or two about FPS games.

Please spare me. You all act like this game is succeeding. CCP themselves admitted the game is failing and they are attempting to correct some of that but honestly its probably too little too late.

Bunny hopping and strafing make sense because this isn't real life, its way in the future in space. Think about your character he is an essentially immortal soldier who is constantly learning from every kill and death. The longer he is on the battle field, he gets extra practice with his weapon. I'm pretty sure that after thousands upon thousands of kills and deaths these soldiers have gained the experience and practice to be able to accurately maintain aim while strafing or even bunny hopping. Not to mention the fact that their dropsuits and weapons are so advanced that they would have their own built in mechanisms to improve aim and reduce recoil. Especially since there are sniper rifles today capable of self compensating for wind, elevation, etc to make the perfect shot.

I haven't stated that the game is or isn't succeeding, though I will say that I like most of the things about 1.4 (bear in mind I said "most"). I sincerely hope that CCP is able to turn things around while including the opinions of the entire community, however there are some here that only want their segment of the community to be heard (i.e. the "competitive elite" which by definition needs to be viewed as being a very small portion of the community).

On the upside, I do agree with you about the different tactics that immortality would allow from a lore perspective.

Learning from every battle doesn't mean that they are going to start doing the harlem shake while trying to dunk like Jordan on the battlefield.

It is inane to assume that "thousands upon thousands of kills and deaths" would lead to this.

tl;dr: IT IS A BATTLEFIELD NOT A DANCEHALL OR BASKETBALL COURT

Are you serioulsy bringing in RL examples to a fictional game set 15 million years in the future? Tell me your not because it sounds like you are and if you are then that just shows how much of an idiot you are.

If you want a realistic military shooter go play Arma and crawl your way to the objective for 2 hours. Have fun. This is not a realistic based military shooter. It was meant to be a tracking shooter that was Haloesque in many ways yet CCP completely failed and ended up making a bad lobby shooter. You say its a laughably bad tactic....those who consider it a bad tactic are those who could not do it or deal with it themselves.

BTW you obviously have not seen deathmatch on Halflife 1 if you consider this game to be strafy and bunnyhoppy......

Fair enough, but what about the dropsuits and weapons from thousands of years in the future? They would have less recoil, they have the ability to flip over LAVs. I know that I can't just flip over a jeep, So its safe to say that these suits and weapons have some built in mechanism to increase strength, vision, focus etc.

See the problem here is that in general the opinions of the "non competitive elite" are usually not very good for game play. I have seen so many games literally die off because they listened to and made changes as requested by the non competitive gamers requests and all the gamers ended up leaving because the game eventually became just horrible. Meanwhile games that consider more heavily the competitive gamer element and work hard to make slight adjustments based on their comments tend to last longer with a larger playerbase. Counterstrike is a perfect example of this. Its still going strong after over a decade of playing...why? Because the devs knew to pay more attention to the elite/pro players than to the average gamer. Did they do everything the elite wanted? No they didnt but they did a pretty good job (not talking about new counterstrike...talking about Source and 1.6).

Another example.......Starcraft 1/2. They work on balancing based on the elite/pro players not based on the average player.

If you wanna eliminate comparisons to rl and insist that everything about this game should be futuristic: I bet every drop suit auto aims for you in "15 million" years.. Just sayin

Let's look at another game that has been going strong for 10 years, growing every year-- Eve.

Eve takes input from all aspects of the community and integrates it successfully (Incarnage notwithstanding).

@stlcarlos989

I am not disagreeing with you there, though you need to ask CCP why we don't have built in zoom and the capability to toss LAVs at reddots.

If you want to go that deep we could say that the gamers are the auto aim AI and some AIs are just better than others.

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

EVE has catered to the hardcore gamer.... from the very inception... If you even think that EVE even thought once about the casual gamer in the last 10 years your delusional. You want WoW its over ------------->

Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........

Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this.

The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them.

Nonsensical considering A.I stands for Artificial Intelligence. I'm not sure about you but my intelligence is not artificial.

This is so true! Hey! Don't just stand there fool!! MOVE!! LOL....This isn't the time when we used muskets and waited until you see the whites of their eyes before you pulled the trigger! You flyboys want things done at a push of a button as you sit back and watch! Click here. Click there. Orbit. Fire. Oh, !@#$% warp away! warp away! LOL

Comon serioulsy? You cant give at all for a good tongue in cheek response? I thought it was pretty clever myself but whatever.

Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game.

Medium Frame 514.

Not true at all, give them a passive cloak mechanic similar to Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

Covert Ops Cloaks would still allow for sprinting.

Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game.

Medium Frame 514.

No, it means scouts dont belong in slayer combat, scouts need to play smart and you know SCOUT.
I have seen plenty of scout suits, one guy I ran with had a sniper in combat of 30-40m and he still did well! He used an active scanner and visual confirmation to give us enemy informatiom, he even hacked a cru right under there noses to give a us a flanking oppurtunity.

Scouts need to be prepared to play there actual role, and so do heavies, and logistics suits, this is encouraging people to plau as a team and play to their suits strengths!

That would really help.

Cant wait for it to be in Update 1.9 in 2016.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

Too many people expect their suit of choice to behave how an Assault should.

If you want to play Assault, use a Logi dropsuit.

No, it means scouts dont belong in slayer combat, scouts need to play smart and you know SCOUT.
I have seen plenty of scout suits, one guy I ran with had a sniper in combat of 30-40m and he still did well! He used an active scanner and visual confirmation to give us enemy informatiom, he even hacked a cru right under there noses to give a us a flanking oppurtunity.

Scouts need to be prepared to play there actual role, and so do heavies, and logistics suits, this is encouraging people to plau as a team and play to their suits strengths!

I'm sorry, IWS, I didn't think you'd take my comment about tanks being designed to resist firepower as tanks being designed to resist specifically anti-tank firepower.

The purpose of tanks is to make anti-infantry weapons obsolete. That was the reason they were invented, and their effectiveness at doing so is the reason they persist on the battlefield. Their presence as a weapon immune to small arms is the reason more powerful weapons were developed as a counter.

The point being that tanks on real battlefields exist specifically because they CAN handle a certain level of enemy firepower without it being a real concern for them. If you could just spray a tank with an AR and it fell over dead, nobody would waste the effort building them.

I'm actually surprised I got such a sensible reply, given the relative idiocy of what I was trying to say.

Let me correct this for you.


There you go this is now more accurate...carry on!

Yeah.

I'll Scout with my equalised scan range, one equipement, and ****** stamina.

Boy, CCP sure do know the role of the Scout.

Scouts dont have a role, anything a Scout can do, a Logi can do better.

Our Stamina was nerfed, we got some ridiculous stamina recharge delay, our passive scanning was nerfed, and we lost an equipment slot.

I refuse to use an Active Scanner because my Passive Scanning should be enough, but Scouts are like dropships, CCP still doesn't understand their role, even though its in their name.

He really doesn't know what hes talking about.

See the problem here is that in general the opinions of the "non competitive elite" are usually not very good for game play. I have seen so many games literally die off because they listened to and made changes as requested by the non competitive gamers requests and all the gamers ended up leaving because the game eventually became just horrible. Meanwhile games that consider more heavily the competitive gamer element and work hard to make slight adjustments based on their comments tend to last longer with a larger playerbase. Counterstrike is a perfect example of this. Its still going strong after over a decade of playing...why? Because the devs knew to pay more attention to the elite/pro players than to the average gamer. Did they do everything the elite wanted? No they didnt but they did a pretty good job (not talking about new counterstrike...talking about Source and 1.6).

Another example.......Starcraft 1/2. They work on balancing based on the elite/pro players not based on the average player.

Stuff.

Their presence as a weapon immune to small arms is the reason more powerful weapons were developed as a counter.

I'm actually surprised I got such a sensible reply, given the relative idiocy of what I was trying to say.

Just because he has better described how things should be rather than how they are, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Why CCP nerfed scouts the way they have, IDK.

No.

Hes telling me to play a Scout in a Scout suit when the game doesn't properly support it.

He thinks you can do it, but its much more effective to play aggressivly as a Scout, you're worthless to the team if you're not.

Some Food for thought the AR's RoF is 12.5 Rounds per second, and basic AR's (no skill) do around 30 Dam an Duv with Prof 5 and 2 complex damage mods is around 51 dam per bullet

Duv base damage 37.5 * 1.15(Prof 5) * 1.17 (complex dam mods) = 50.456 dam

So it's pretty powerful even at base
31 * 12 bullets in 1 second thats 372 Hit points, more than a Breach MD direct hit, more than a light blaster turret in the same period of time, more than plenty of other things in one SECOND!

Yes this where the problem lies, I think its clear people used aim assist as a scapegoat, why? Because now that the bullets register the ar has true power, and they dont want it balanced!! HROF weapons need a balance pass, not too much maybe 20% less damage, a little more dispertion a little more kick, nothing too drastic!!

Cut down range, increase Dispersion and kick or cut down damage I like the former Because it makes the AR a CQC weapon, and the AScR more of a ranged weapon.

Slightly reduce the LR and AScR dam and you'll be pretty well off.

Even if range, kick and dispersion are changed every weapon which was given the 10% damage compensation, needs it taken off, other than that while I agree that you could balance it without changing damage the dps is still phenomenally high on most HROF weapons, I would prefer to see the full house!!

But it would force the AR to be like a SMG where it excels in CQC but isn't as good outside of it's range

The current ARs are Gallente, and are based on Blaster tech, a form of hybrid weapon recognised as an effective SHORT RANGE weapon.

These ARs should, once we have the full range of rifles, be the almost-SMG option.

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

But should out DPS SMGs

But it would force the AR to be like a SMG where it excels in CQC but isn't as good outside of it's range

Bunny Hopping= paint ball tactics same with strafing. This is a space war game so ccp fixed the aiming and made as it should be. No more paintball tactics. Your either behind cover or dead.

No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f***ing sense.

Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s***.

So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter.

They already out-DPS Small Blaster Turrets.

Just saying.

Soldiers aren't trained to do things like that because they are carrying A TON of equipment. Man my back pack is only like 30 pounds and I know that I could never do that crap with a ton of weight on.

That said, we are wearing suits that improve our strength, endurance, agility and ability to jump.

Ahem why starcraft is bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

and supplemental

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

They both just destroy the immersion for me and are just hilariously unrealistic, and I like EVE / DUST because they try very hard to be realistic (EVE's fluid physics aside). Really, you're capable of firing a high recoil plasma rifle while jumping up and down, or side stepping left and right, with absolutely no barrel sway resulting in pinpoint accuracy? No, that defies so many laws of physics that it's unbearable. Even more unbearable then dual wielding.

I wish that jumping, turning, and strafing added a tiny bit of acceleration to your crosshair. To mimic real life. Turn quickly while aiming and watch as the barrel continues rotating and you have to fight it back to center. Do it while jumping, even just little hops, and watch the barrel bounce up and down with you. This would force people to stop and aim, like real soldiers, not do completely unrealistic movements because you can.

I agree SO much. Aiming back at someone while you are jumping should be nearly impossible.

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

I knew you were insane, but I didn't know how far. Dust dreams of being half as good as starcraft is to it's audience. It's a game that knows how to strike a balance between what is considered 'noob' tactics that give easy win, to complicated strategies, that if used right, can assure the win even more.

Dust has no strike in balance. And you have disowned any credibility you have saying Starcraft is bad while defending Dust.

As others have said, strafing and bunny hopping look stupid and make no sense whatsoever. The only reason they ever worked on this game was because hit detection was bad. No real soldier would bunny hop or strafe from side to side under fire, because hit detection works in real life. In that respect the game has made a big step forward; get used to it.

Aim assist doesn't really have much to do with strafing or bunny hoping. They wouldn't be good tactics now even without aim assist, due to the improved hit detection.

speed tanking was a thing, and it's what scouts were designed around.

now it's not, scout suit may as well be removed, sp refunded so they can spec into a proper caldari assault suit and spec into ar's like everyone else.

I suppose they could do option two and be heavy with hmg/forge gun.

NO! Don't you dare remove my scout suits!

Yes we are suffering but I plan to make them work regardless!

I tell you, I'm losing isk left and right running proto light suits but I am having fun so what!

If I could double like this post I would.

I was flabergasted when I saw IWS mention Starcraft and then call it a bad game......

Seriously??? If starcraft is a bad game then there are pretty much no good games out there....and dust well we cant even discuss dust compared to Starcraft. Dust doesnt deserve to drink Starcrafts urine much less anything else..........

If I could double like this post I would.

I was flabergasted when I saw IWS mention Starcraft and then call it a bad game......

Seriously??? If starcraft is a bad game then there are pretty much no good games out there....and dust well we cant even discuss dust compared to Starcraft. Dust doesnt deserve to drink Starcrafts urine much less anything else..........

First of all you instantly assume that because I said scouts need to be scouts, I think the class is balanced and fair, its anything from it, yes you need more speed, yes you need more stamina, yes you need faster stamina regen, yes you need a higher scan radius., hell yes you need 2 eq slots, yes the logi needs to be changed (thats a different matter).

But there are problems with even your attitude to scouting, your passive scan is for YOU while a scout needs a buff of maybe 15-20m passive scan, the fact that you refuse to scan for your team shows you want a fast medium suit.

Scouts are all about powerful strategic assets, there weapon is for protection should they be caught, not for pure assaulting, scouts slip behind enemy lines, give their positions, nullify their advantages, provide attack points via uplinks!

If younwant scout that runs into group of guys with a shotgun and walks out the other side, use the assault suit thats what its for! If you dont understand that your job is not to kill people, then I suggest you play cod while using the lightweight perk!!

Actually, Starcraft was a bad game at one point because the developers didn't have enough foresight to implement balancing against zerg tactics. For a time, zerging was the only tactic that anyone used and when it was ultimately re-balanced, many of it's core community left because they didn't learn anything new and didn't want to. I haven't played recently, but this was the last thing I remember.

The lvl of fail on this thread has just reached new heights. Starcraft 1/2 are the best RTS games period.....nothing can quite compare to them. I know of no other RTS game that has a pro circuit like Starcraft does...frankly its ok if you dont like RTS games....there is nothing wrong with not enjoying those types of games as some do and some dont. But to say that Starcraft 1/2 is/are/were bad games is just a completely and absolute disgrace to the entire gaming industry.

The lvl of fail on this thread has just reached new heights. Starcraft 1/2 are the best RTS games period.....nothing can quite compare to them. I know of no other RTS game that has a pro circuit like Starcraft does...frankly its ok if you dont like RTS games....there is nothing wrong with not enjoying those types of games as some do and some dont. But to say that Starcraft 1/2 is/are/were bad games is just a completely and absolute disgrace to the entire gaming industry.

You're asking us to be Scouts when playing agressivly is far more rewarding than trying to fill a role another spec could do better.

A Logi/Assault with the Scanner fills the role better, they've got more tank, more slots, more PG/CPU, and in the Logi's case, more Equipment slots.

Whats the point of fielding a Scout with an Active Scanner? They go down quicker, the speed difference is so minimal that the medium's tank and ability to fit Proto Weaponry and Proto Equip, makes it a better suit for the job.

I would be Scouting, if the game would let me, but right now its not possible, because its not supported, when I go Shotgunning I'm not trying to close large gaps across an open terrain, I stick to CQC areas and try get the jump on an enemy when possible.

The game doesn't reward you for Passive Scanning, not even Active Scanning, and the fact that I have to sacrifice my biotics, which I basically survive on, to fit a decent scan on a Scout is ridiculous.

There is one thing the game does reward you for doing, and thats killing.

Ask any Corp, if they had the choice, which would they pick;

Minmatar Proto Logi - Biotic Tanked (25% Hack increase, you cant imagine how useful this is in PC battles, more tank, more EQ)

Minmatar Proto Scout - Speed Tanked (Slightly more speed / Stamina, paper thin shield, 1 EQ, 25% Nova Knife damage increase, less Dropsuit Sig)

I bet, majority of serious corps, would pick the Logi.

The other fail is perfectly balanced, which results in boring game play and begins to boil down who can execute the strategy the fastest, hence the massive emphasis of 300 apm+ which is something pro players consistently proven bad in any game by going to for the same build, the same approach, the same tactic and begins to boil down to who can shoot first.

We're getting way off topic here...

Yes we are....

Back to topic. Increased strafing and "bunnyhopping" (there truly is no bunnyhopping in the true sense of the term in Dust) are what made this game good before Dust began its continuous decline into ineptitude.

You realise it still works dont you? A hop here and there works, what you can't do is wobble around a spot 3m in diameter, strafing still works but you cant just flit back and forth in a 3m area!!

Its better than it was and its time for you to adapt semperfi, infact you could say its time to, adapt or die!!

Try chop strafing aga-

Redberry (Aim-Assisted Militia Assault Rifle) Cosgar

Tries chops strafing, dies!!
Tries strafing to cover, survives, pops out, kills redberry, repeats!!

How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point.

So true. *Straffing to cover* ............ crickets chirp .................... Oh there it is I only have 20 meters more to go now.

Watch the videos.

How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point.

How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point.

The old gen maps sometimes have a bit too much open ground, I still managed though, the new gen maps are awsome for it.

Of course you will get caught out in the open but now you have to think,
where is the neareast cover
what do I do if someone is behind that ledge
where is my squad,
what happens if theres an ambush,
are they waiting

or is it all a bit too much for a "hardcore" gamer?

Bunny Hopping= paint ball tactics same with strafing. This is a space war game so CCP fixed the aiming and made as it should be. No more paintball tactics. Your either behind cover or dead.

If you want to try to justify that bunny hopping is a futuristic viable tactic I will have you say you're absolutely wrong.

Behold the IRL Aimbot

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/product-hero-660x371.jpg

Comes with GPS, ballistics programming, windage, range finder, and aim correction.

I don't see any technological advantages for weaving through a hail of bullets or helping out bunny hopping.

As I said in another thread, nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets.

Ouch that is pretty serious. I know those cables are huge but man the amount of power they must have if 1 cable caused that much dmg. Crazy....

Having to pay for your suits is hardcore enough, but when I'm using an expensive logi suit to support my squad, but can get gunned down at a moment's notice due to an aim-assisted, bullet bending, fully auto sniper rifle, there's no point.

Paying for suits is hardcore enough? So the fact you have to use the money you earn in games is a hardcore factor, really its not like they give you free suits or anything!!

No its not enough, some people have far too much money, just because you find it a little to difficult and you can't own like you used to, adapt or die mate, just like so many noobs have to, so many people already have in this patch alone, its time you did the same!!

Off topic again, but something is extremely wrong if you're agreeing with me.

If you're so hardcore, then go play scout and really put your balls on the line and see how broken this new patch is. I think I'm going to go play CoD to brush up on my twitch skills.

I'm sorry, but this statement is so false I don't even know what to say. Are you really saying nothing has been designed to absorb damage?! Really?? So armoring vehicles and planes was just to add pointless weight? Come on now... I know you are smarter then this.

Armor is designed to stop a weapon. Then someone designs a weapon to defeat that armor, just in case the enemy adopts it. Pretty soon, it's sold to someone, then traded to someone else, then its copied, and everyone has it! It's a never ending cycle in the arms race.



Simple physics semperfi. Those cables absorb massive amounts of energy. You should see the size of the engines those are attached to. One of my close friends on the Abe Lincoln was an ABE and in charge of operating one of the arresting cables.

Rule #1 for the flight deck, Keep you head on a swivel!

Well I agree when you say things that are true. I would be a moron to not agree with your assessment regarding the amount of cover available in Dust........this is also why I think people are ret@rded when they attempt to state Dust is a tactical shooter. Since when does a tactical shooter have no cover at all from which "tactics" can be devised from?

Really the real life argument again? In a video game? ROFL this just cracks me up. In RL we also cant be shot multiple times and survive so I suggest that CCP make is so that 1-2 shots kill. Then this would have more realism!!

Well I agree when you say things that are true. I would be a moron to not agree with your assessment regarding the amount of cover available in Dust........this is also why I think people are ret@rded when they attempt to state Dust is a tactical shooter. Since when does a tactical shooter have no cover at all from which "tactics" can be devised from?

There's tactical gameplay, but like everything else, it's kind of a mixture. The devs are trying to appeal to everybody and all they're doing is pissing us all because the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. It really feels like the hit detection guy, the aim assist guy, and the strafing guy made their changes without comparing notes and now we have.... this.

Cover is what you make of it there are areas in this game that some concider open but in fact there are hills to take cover behind, cover is not always a chest high create anything you can put between you and the hostiles bullets is cover of course are are times when one will get caught in open thats why one should avoid open areas as if its the plague and if you find you self in such a situation it is best to make your self a hard target to hit and if there is cover in run for your life range run if not open fire to try and suppress the enemy into cover so he cant shoot back if you can supress a enemy your squad can advance over open terrain its risky but doable.